Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA?

[magui86770]

US virgin islands are consider US in this conversation...=)

Thoughts?

[ShoogarBear]

Hoo-boy.

This is going to get me stoned by the CoM, but objectively, Manu doesn't have any All-NBA teams (yet) or MVPs.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Yes.

[polandprzem]

how many more threads like this?

It's becoming lame :loser

[BlackSwordsMan]

Church of Spurs cheerleaders says yes

[Kori Ellis]

Ummm... No?

Hakeem Olajuwon
21.8 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3 blocks, 18 year career

NBA champion (1994, '95); NBA Finals MVP (1994, '95); NBA MVP (1994); Defensive Player of Year (1993, '94); All-NBA First Team (1987, '88, '89, '93, '94, '97); All-NBA Second Team ('86, '90, '96); Third Team (1991, '95, '99); All-Defensive First Team ('87, '88, '90, '93, '94); 12-time All-Star; Olympic gold medalist (1996); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

[sandman]

Ummm... No?

Hakeem Olajuwon
21.8 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3 blocks, 18 year career

NBA champion (1994, '95); NBA Finals MVP (1994, '95); NBA MVP (1994); Defensive Player of Year (1993, '94); All-NBA First Team (1987, '88, '89, '93, '94, '97); All-NBA Second Team ('86, '90, '96); Third Team (1991, '95, '99); All-Defensive First Team ('87, '88, '90, '93, '94); 12-time All-Star; Olympic gold medalist (1996); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

[/thread]

[naico]

Outside of Africa nd considering Canada=US, its probably a battle between Gino nd Petrovic.

[1Parker1]

:lol Maybe Top 5.

[GrandeDavid]

I'd have to go with Hakeem who is now a U.S. Citizen. However, in his heydey and for all practical purposes should be considered an international player.

[2Cleva]

As it stands now, Mutombo had a better individual career than Ginobili.

[ShoogarBear]

Outside of Africa nd considering Canada=US, its probably a battle between Gino nd Petrovic.

First, why outside of Africa?

Second:

http://www.nba.com/media/dirk3_300_070515.jpg

[1Parker1]

:lol And what about Canada?

[1Parker1]

Oh and Shoog, please don't tell me you think Dirk is a better player than Ginobili?? I think Ginobili's inside/outside/will to win/gold medal resume all out perform a 7 footer shooting fadaways.

[magui86770]

See, I knew I forgot someone. Who can forget the beatdown on David in the conference finals, unfortunately. The dream is definite #1. As for who falls to #2, is it b/w Dirk, Nash, or Manu? or someone else?

[sandman]

As it stands now, Mutombo had a better individual career than Ginobili.

Thinking Detlef Schremf from a stats perspective, maybe even Toni Kukoc in his first 8 years. Manu is much more clutch than either of these two, but from a stats/awards perspective it is close.

Detlef was 14/6/3 in his career, twice 6th Man, thrice All-Star, one All-NBA team. Kukoc won 3 titles and was 6th Man once, averaging 15/5/4 during his run with the Bulls.

Drazen, Mutombo, Hakeem, Dirk top my personal list. When it is all said and done, I think Manu could be Top 5.

[sandman]

Oh and Shoog, please don't tell me you think Dirk is a better player than Ginobili?? I think Ginobili's inside/outside/will to win/gold medal resume all out perform a 7 footer shooting fadaways.

I thought the question was Top 5 in the NBA? Gold Medals are out of scope...

[ForeignFan]

outside of Africa and Europe, and maybe Asia, certainly

[Spurminator]

Oh and Shoog, please don't tell me you think Dirk is a better player than Ginobili?? I think Ginobili's inside/outside/will to win/gold medal resume all out perform a 7 footer shooting fadaways.

I don't think you can ever really answer that question without seeing the players in reverse roles. I suppose it's not fair to Ginobili to assume he couldn't lead the Mavs to the same places Dirk has led them with the same supporting cast. But we know what Dirk has done as the primary go-to weapon. I'm sure he would trade careers with Manu in a heartbeat, but as far as individual resumes go, you have to give Dirk the upper hand.

[Xylus]

I think Nash is better than Manu, personally. And if I had to choose between Dirk and Manu, I'd go with Dirk.

[spursfan09]

I think Nash is better than Manu, personally. And if I had to choose between Dirk and Manu, I'd go with Dirk.

ok but don't start crying when you need some defense and can't afford to choke.

[naico]

Compared to Nowitzki Ginobili has proved himself as top notch in Euro championships, World Championships, Olympic games and NBA championships..

Nowitzki? Euro cup, regular season NBA, one good playoff year

[spursfan09]

oh and technically Tony P has accomplished a lil more than Manu to ya know.

[ShoogarBear]

Oh and Shoog, please don't tell me you think Dirk is a better player than Ginobili?? I think Ginobili's inside/outside/will to win/gold medal resume all out perform a 7 footer shooting fadaways.

Look, you can't question what Ginobili has done from the standpoint of team accomplishments.

But Dirk has multiple first-team All-NBAs and an MVP. Even if you say the MVP was questionable, it's still a greater individual legacy in the NBA at this point.

And KG has a gold medal, while Tim doesn't.

[magui86770]

Dirk and Nash have the all stars and mvps. Manu has the rings. If you look at individual stats, then the nod is to nash and dirk. Intangibles, I put nash and manu tied with a dirk a distant third and falling.

[Trainwreck2100]

Parker>Manu

:stirpot:

[Xylus]

ok but don't start crying when you need some defense and can't afford to choke.
Manu is a great player when he's in his A-game, but he's far less consistent than Nash and Dirk, two players who play at a high level almost every single game of the season. Nash and Dirk carry teams (like Duncan), while Manu elevates an already good team into greatness.

I'm not trying to hate on Manu... I'd take him on my team any day of the week. But Nash and Dirk are scary good, almost all the time. And Dirk isn't a fucking choker.

[ShoogarBear]

Parker>Manu

:stirpot:

Thanks, ducks.

[Indazone]

Duncan is a better International Player than Manu

[spursfan09]

Manu is a great player when he's in his A-game, but he's far less consistent than Nash and Dirk, two players who play at a high level almost every single game of the season. Nash and Dirk carry teams (like Duncan), while Manu elevates an already good team into greatness.

I'm not trying to hate on Manu... I'd take him on my team any day of the week. But Nash and Dirk are scary good, almost all the time. And Dirk isn't a fucking choker.

I agree Nash and dirk have proved to be very good consistently. They deserve all the accolades they have gotten. And I disagree about Dirk, I mean what is choking to you then?

[naico]

Now that we're talkin' individual..One on One Gino beats the crap outta Dirk and Nash nd TD for that matter..

Yeah i know stupid ass thing to say..Shows how dumb it is to talk about individual accomplishments..

Ow yeah..Heres another one..WC MVP

[magui86770]

Xylus, have to disagree with Dirk. He's weak mentally and the game 1 against the Hornets just add to it. Do you think Nash or Manu would have taken that finger to the face?!

[Xylus]

Xylus, have to disagree with Dirk. He's weak mentally and the game 1 against the Hornets just add to it. Do you think Nash or Manu would have taken that finger to the face?!
Nash and Manu wouldn't have taken the finger to the face, but that's a separate subject from choking.

It's been awhile since you guys played Dirk in the playoffs, so you've forgotten how good he can be. If you advance to the 2nd round, you might have the chance to see it again.

[oski1000]

Manu won 3 NBA rings, 1 Olympic gold Medal, Euro League and others....
Nash, Dirk, and the others are still waiting......:downspin::downspin::flag:

[1Parker1]

Look, you can't question what Ginobili has done from the standpoint of team accomplishments.

But Dirk has multiple first-team All-NBAs and an MVP. Even if you say the MVP was questionable, it's still a greater individual legacy in the NBA at this point.

And KG has a gold medal, while Tim doesn't.


KG wasn't the MVP of that team that won the Gold medal. Regardless of Olympics, just look at the NBA and what each player has done.

I'll give you that Dirk is a much better pure shooter in the NBA and he rebounds. Ginobili is a much better passer, much better defender, and much better in the clutch than Dirk. You can even argue that Ginobili makes his teammates better. In almost every single championship the Spurs won the last 3 years, Ginobili had a hand one way or another in the game winning shot that turned the series around.

You can argue that Ginobili has Duncan and Parker, while Dirk has no one. But that's misleading too. It's not as if Dirk has absolutely no one on his team. In fact, the last two seasons he's had a team good enough to take to the NBA Finals and to win 67 games. He's also played alongside a Top 10 PG in the history of the game before that with Nash.

And if you're looking at just stats like "ALL-NBA" etc, just think about how many great shooting guards there are in this league that Ginobili competes with and think about how many truly great PF's there are in the game for Dirk to compete with to get that spot.

If you're looking at just stats, I think Dirk is a better player. But if you look at the intangibles and which player has had the most positive impact directly on his team, I'd have to go with Ginobili. Put it this way, which would you rather have; The 2007 MVP Dirk season or the 2005 Almost Finals MVP Ginobili season?

[MmP]

To me he's in the top 5, he still has the time to be consider the best.

[magui86770]

Manu has a better international body of work than any other player, including the Dream. So, he may be consider the greatest int. player to play in the nba.
But when you add the NBA numbers and awards, then you have the arguments.

[porscha]

Yes

[SlovenianGuy]

Some time ago there was an international player, who joined Hakeem Olajuwon and Kareem Abdul-Jabaar as the only players in NBA history to amass 13,000 points, 9,000 rebounds, 3,000 assists and 1,500 blocked shots.

[magui86770]

Sarbonis. Should have mention him. I remember stories about him that he was a "bad man" before his knees gave him trouble.

[ShoogarBear]

KG wasn't the MVP of that team that won the Gold medal. Regardless of Olympics, just look at the NBA and what each player has done.

Yeah, and Manu wasn't MVP of the team that won NBA titles. You can't penalize KG because he had better teammates than Tim on the one hand, then give Manu props because he had better teammates than Dirk on the other.


You can argue that Ginobili has Duncan and Parker, while Dirk has no one. But that's misleading too. It's not as if Dirk has absolutely no one on his team. In fact, the last two seasons he's had a team good enough to take to the NBA Finals and to win 67 games. Again, you're flip-flopping on which side of the argument you take. It's not like Tim had absolutely no one on his Olympic team.

The point is that Olympic success is not germane to this discussion.


He's also played alongside a Top 10 PG in the history of the game before that with Nash. Nash wasn't anywhere remotely close to a Top 10 PG when he played at Dallas. Plus they had a dumba** for a coach.



If you're looking at just stats, I think Dirk is a better player. But if you look at the intangibles and which player has had the most positive impact directly on his team, I'd have to go with Ginobili. Put it this way, which would you rather have; The 2007 MVP Dirk season or the 2005 Almost Finals MVP Ginobili season?Again, I'm not trying to take away from anything Manu has done. But Manu has never done what Dirk has done either. Yes, I'd rather have Manu than Dirk.(*) But are you going to argue that if you put Dirk Nowitzki alongside Tim Duncan for five years, he wouldn't have a couple of rings, too?




(*)This sentence is guaranteed to be ignored/forgotten in any/all replies by the CoM.

[FromWayDowntown]

That this discussion is ongoing with the name Olajuwon having been thrown on the table is baffling to me. Unless Manu somehow takes his game up another 3 levels in the next few years and becomes the sole focal point of a back-to-back champion while winning an MVP and being one of the truly dominant defensive players in the game (Bowen-level), I don't see how it could be possible to consider Ginobili the best international player ever.

I would agree that he's not even the best international player currently playing in the NBA. I'm not sure that I'd say Nowitzki is the best, but there's a quantum difference between Manu and Dirk. In simple terms, to keep with the Mavs/Spurs dynamic, Dirk is a diminished version of Tim Duncan in terms of role while Manu is, in most respects, a significantly better version of Josh Howard.

You win championships because of the play of guys like Manu but you have the opportunity to win championships because of the presence of guys like Tim Duncan.

[JPB]

It's too bad we'll never know what could have done Sabonis if he would have came in his prime in NBA. It was ten years before the NBA really became global.

Can you imagine a big man with his hands and some serious hoops before his knee issues ?

No offense spurs fans, but he schooled D-Rob in international games at that time.

Guy was sick.

[JPB]

And Petrovic also was a stud.

[Tacker]

I think Dirk is better than Ginobli

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

That this discussion is ongoing with the name Olajuwon having been thrown on the table is baffling to me. Unless Manu somehow takes his game up another 3 levels in the next few years and becomes the sole focal point of a back-to-back champion while winning an MVP and being one of the truly dominant defensive players in the game (Bowen-level), I don't see how it could be possible to consider Ginobili the best international player ever.

http://bloggingwiththedevils.freedomblogging.com/files/2007/11/dumb-and-dumber.jpg
So you're telling me there's a chance!

[hater]

let's see, he was involved in every single miracle play for the Spurs in the last 4 years.

yeah, he's the best ever!

seriously, everyone talks about Finley's and Duncan's 3s. But it was manu who made the amazing pass to Finley, he did not throw it straight at Finley, he threw the ball to the spot where Finley was going! amazing pass if you check it out again.

and the pass to Timmy was even better, he only had Duncan in the corner of his eye, and had Nash and Shaq right on his tail and managed to pass it straight at Duncan's palms.

then there was the decision of saying fuck it and driving the ball for the game winner. There would not have been any overtime or win without manu.

[dreamcastrocks]

No. He is top 5 though. Nash, Dirk, Sabonis, Manu, (late) Drazen Petrovic are in my top 5 that I can think of offhand.

[urunobili]

not really sure... but he is the most winner all time that i can tell... skills wise... maybe Nash and Dirk could be> Manu... but none is a better champ... NONE will ever be probably

[da_suns_fan]

No.

Nash and Hakeem are/were better.

[Kobayagi]

Ginobili has proved himself as top notch in Euro championships, World Championships, Olympic games and NBA championships..



The year Argentina competed in Euro championships was a great year for basketball. :king

[oski1000]

Again, I'm not trying to take away from anything Manu has done. But Manu has never done what Dirk has done either. Yes, I'd rather have Manu than Dirk.(*) But are you going to argue that if you put Dirk Nowitzki alongside Tim Duncan for five years, he wouldn't have a couple of rings, too?


(*)This sentence is guaranteed to be ignored/forgotten in any/all replies by the CoM.[/QUOTE]

Nash played with Dirk in the same team and they won nothing .....You need winners to make winning teams!!!!

[endrity]

Seriously, some of you have to read about Dirk's international accomplishments.

Germany has some guys that play in second leagues around Europe, pretty much amateurs, and Dirk has made them a contender in every Euro and World Championship, medalling three times I think. Argentina on the other hand has six NBA players and consitently produces talented basketball players.

He has been World Championship MVP once, in Indy, and Euro MVP twice I think. He has always been in the tournament's First Team.

Dirk is as much a legend in the FIBA tournaments as he is in the NBA. Someone should go and watch his game winners against Spain, Russia, Nigeria the last few years. And if you didn't know this: He singlehandedly carried Germany in almost beating the US a couple of years ago. US was saved by an AI 3 point heave from midcourt as time was expiring.

If Hakeem is not considered an international, than Dirk is the best ever. Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best. The Admiral can tell you how good he really was, afterall he got his ass handed to him in the 88 Olympics by Sabonis.

[endrity]

And Dino Meneghin and Oscar Schmidt would have been pretty good in the 80s NBA as well.

[ShoogarBear]

But are you going to argue that if you put Dirk Nowitzki alongside Tim Duncan for five years, he wouldn't have a couple of rings, too?Nash played with Dirk in the same team and they won nothing .....You need winners to make winning teams!!!!

Please don't tell me you are comparing Nash to Tim Duncan.

What would Manu have won with Nash?

[JoeTait75]

Great as in "great in the NBA" or great as in "great in the NBA and in international ball?" If the former, it's Hakeem. If the latter, it's Arvydas Sabonis.

[Kobayagi]

Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best.


I remember Sabonis when he played for Real Madrid in Euroleague (or maybe it was called Champion's Cup back then) in the early 90s. He was a nightmare for most teams, yeah.

[Magic_Johnson]

Manu won 3 NBA rings, 1 Olympic gold Medal, Euro League and others....
Nash, Dirk, and the others are still waiting......:downspin::downspin::flag:

Dirk was young when he came in the nba, he didn't play in the euroleague.
Dirk is the only decent player in his national team.
And If Dirk was in the spurs instead of Manu, he'll have ring too.

I love Manu but let's not compare a franchise player who led his team to the final and a great 2nd option who won nba rings with TIM DUNCAN

[Magic_Johnson]

Seriously, some of you have to read about Dirk's international accomplishments.

Germany has some guys that play in second leagues around Europe, pretty much amateurs, and Dirk has made them a contender in every Euro and World Championship, medalling three times I think. Argentina on the other hand has six NBA players and consitently produces talented basketball players.

He has been World Championship MVP once, in Indy, and Euro MVP twice I think. He has always been in the tournament's First Team.

Dirk is as much a legend in the FIBA tournaments as he is in the NBA. Someone should go and watch his game winners against Spain, Russia, Nigeria the last few years. And if you didn't know this: He singlehandedly carried Germany in almost beating the US a couple of years ago. US was saved by an AI 3 point heave from midcourt as time was expiring.

If Hakeem is not considered an international, than Dirk is the best ever. Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best. The Admiral can tell you how good he really was, afterall he got his ass handed to him in the 88 Olympics by Sabonis.

+1

[smeagol]

He will be top 3 when all is said and done

[endrity]

I remember Sabonis when he played for Real Madrid in Euroleague (or maybe it was called Champion's Cup back then) in the early 90s. He was a nightmare for most teams, yeah.

I meant in the NBA. I think the game you are referring to is on YouTube. He is a man among boys.

[FromWayDowntown]

If the disregarding of Hakeem in this thread had something to do with a technical argument concerning the current state of his citizenship, I could understand why nobody is talking about him. But I don't see that argument really being made here.

And I don't understand how so many can simply disregard Olajuwon.

Olajuwon >>>>>>>>> Dirk
Olajuwon >>>>>>>>>> Nash
Olajuwon >>>>>>>>>>> Manu

Hakeem Olajuwon is legitmately in the argument for being a top 5 center of all-time and is probably among the best 25-30 players to ever perform in the NBA. Dirk isn't in those sorts of arguments, and neither is Nash -- not positionally and certainly not in an all-time, all-players sense. And there's no way that Manu is in those arguments, either.

I still think that Olajuwon was a better player than Sabonis was, too.

[endrity]

+1
:toast

[Kobayagi]

I meant in the NBA. I think the game you are referring to is on YouTube. He is a man among boys.


You gotta realize that his career was already in decline when he entered the NBA. Yes, he was good in the NBA but if he could have played there sooner, the Blazers would probably win a championship or two with him.

[endrity]

If the disregarding of Hakeem in this thread had something to do with a technical argument concerning the current state of his citizenship, I could understand why nobody is talking about him. But I don't see that argument really being made here.

And I don't understand how so many can simply disregard Olajuwon.

Olajuwon >>>>>>>>> Dirk
Olajuwon >>>>>>>>>> Nash
Olajuwon >>>>>>>>>>> Manu

Hakeem Olajuwon is legitmately in the argument for being a top 5 center of all-time and is probably among the best 25-30 players to ever perform in the NBA. Dirk isn't in those sorts of arguments, and neither is Nash -- not positionally and certainly not in an all-time, all-players sense. And there's no way that Manu is in those arguments, either.

I still think that Olajuwon was a better player than Sabonis was, too.

I think it has to do with the fact that few consider him international. He came over to the US as a teenager, played collegeball in the US. He grew up through the US system. And yes, I think he is better than all of the guys mentioned above.

Yet I think you are selling both Dirk and Nash short. Considering that there are around 25 guys to have won MVPs and they are on that list, they can't be far off the top. Both Nash and Dirk I think are Top 10 all time in regards to their positions, and if any of them wins a ring it greatly enhances their reputation, especially Dirk's since both Malone and Barkley (considered the 2 and 3 best PFs after Duncan) are ringless.

[ShoogarBear]

I think everyone has more sense than to argue against Olajuwon. That's why I didn't even bother to mention him by name in my first post.

[endrity]

You gotta realize that his career was already in decline when he entered the NBA. Yes, he was good in the NBA but if he could have played there sooner, the Blazers would probably win a championship or two with him.

That's why I say we never got a chance to see him at his best. There was no competition for him in Europe. I would have liked to see him in the NBA in 1990-95 years. Who knows, maybe he and Clyde might have won a ring together. The 92 Bulls had no one even close to being able to stop Sabonis.

[Kobayagi]

That's why I say we never got a chance to see him at his best.

Ok, now I know what you were trying to say. My bad. :lol

[Elraptor]

Nope.

[WalterBenitez]

Nop.

[T Park]

No.

Hell Petrovic was always in my mind the best, but its a shame we will never know how his career would play out.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know why Hakeem gets tossed aside by some in this debate because he moved here to go to college (and then stayed, etc.) He's still foreign born, international heritage, etc. How can you discount him as an "international player?"

[urunobili]

I don't know why Hakeem gets tossed aside by some in this debate because he moved here to go to college (and then stayed, etc.) He's still foreign born, international heritage, etc. How can you discount him as an "international player?"
he didn;t get his fundamentals abroad Kori... that's why... probably we should have set the tone saying "non US schooled athlete" so discussion would be less against Hakeem kinda players...

[timvp]

Manu is the best player in NBA history.

[WalterBenitez]

Manu is the best player in NBA history.

and why not ... the best human being ever existed?:drunk

[ShoogarBear]

Hokey smokes. What if Manu decided to retire in the US, and become a US citizen like Hakeem? :lol

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know why Hakeem gets tossed aside by some in this debate because he moved here to go to college (and then stayed, etc.) He's still foreign born, international heritage, etc. How can you discount him as an "international player?"

Because, according to the definition*, he isn't. He never played pro ball abroad and the only international experience he has is as a member of the US team. For the purposes of this discussion, Steve Nash is more of an "international player" than Hakeem.


*not that I know that there's actually a "definition" but I think we all agree that an "international" player has to do more than just be born outside the US.

[TheTruth]

How did this thread go pass Hakeem?

[Kori Ellis]

*not that I know that there's actually a "definition" but I think we all agree that an "international" player has to do more than just be born outside the US.

I assumed that's all it meant. I was categorizing it just like the NBA does - international=foreign born.

[Obstructed_View]

I assumed that's all it meant. I was categorizing it just like the NBA does - international=foreign born.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider Patrick Ewing an international player either. It makes for a boring discussion if you can count him and Hakeem, because there's really no discussion. Manu's my favorite player, but he's not as good as Hakeem. Find me three finals MVPs from now and we'll talk.

[tlongII]

So what you guys are saying is "Manu is better than Tony", right?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

For me, international should be one that hasn't played in high school and/or college in the US, has played in a pro league abroad and most important, plays for a national team other than USA Basketball. The NBA may consider birthplace to label a player as "international", but that's a marketing strategy. I just can't consider Tim Duncan or Hakeem Olajuwon "international" when they've represented USA Basketball in the Olympics and World Championships.

If we are counting NBA achievements only, then no, but he is in the top 5. If individual and team trophies achieved elsewhere are taken into the mix, he's a top 3 without a doubt. The same applies for Sabonis, if you take his overseas career, he is a lock for the first or second place.

Dirk and Nash are the opposite, their NBA careers help their cause, but their international resume doesn't add much.

However, many of these players are still active, so at least a couple of years would be needed to measure their careers.

My top 10, right now:
1- Sabonis
2- Manu
3- Dirk
4- Nash
5- Petrovic
6- Kukoc
7- Mutombo
8- Tony Parker
9- Dino Radja
10- Rik Smits/ Vlade Divac

But that's a list made on the run and I'm probably forgetting a couple of names.

[MagnusKrauss]

Manu is the #1 Argentinian Player in the NBA.

:D

[DAF86]

Ummm... No?

Hakeem Olajuwon
21.8 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3 blocks, 18 year career

NBA champion (1994, '95); NBA Finals MVP (1994, '95); NBA MVP (1994); Defensive Player of Year (1993, '94); All-NBA First Team (1987, '88, '89, '93, '94, '97); All-NBA Second Team ('86, '90, '96); Third Team (1991, '95, '99); All-Defensive First Team ('87, '88, '90, '93, '94); 12-time All-Star; Olympic gold medalist (1996); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

Olympic gold medalist with the United states so he shouldn't be considered an international player then

[DAF86]

oh and technically Tony P has accomplished a lil more than Manu to ya know.

Call me when Tony wins an olympic gold medal

[DAF86]

To consider somebody as the greatest ever on something, that guy needs to be a winner. You can't give that kind of recognition to people that haven't won anything. Would Duncan be consider as the best PF ever if he hasn't won 4 titles? there are lots of PF's with better number than Duncan but nobody is better than him.
With Manu is the same thing, is there any doubt that he could have better numbers playing for a team like for ex. philadelphia? taking 20/25 shots per game? playing more than 30 minutes per game?
Would that make of Manu a better player? or would that only make him have better numbers?

If you find an international player (that doesn't play for the U.S) with 'bout the same amount of championships, awards and importance to those teams that Manu has, then there could be a discussion until then I'll say: yes he's the greatest international player ever in the NBA.

[ManuAddicted]

Seriously, some of you have to read about Dirk's international accomplishments.

Germany has some guys that play in second leagues around Europe, pretty much amateurs, and Dirk has made them a contender in every Euro and World Championship, medalling three times I think. Argentina on the other hand has six NBA players and consitently produces talented basketball players.

He has been World Championship MVP once, in Indy, and Euro MVP twice I think. He has always been in the tournament's First Team.

Dirk is as much a legend in the FIBA tournaments as he is in the NBA. Someone should go and watch his game winners against Spain, Russia, Nigeria the last few years. And if you didn't know this: He singlehandedly carried Germany in almost beating the US a couple of years ago. US was saved by an AI 3 point heave from midcourt as time was expiring.

If Hakeem is not considered an international, than Dirk is the best ever. Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best. The Admiral can tell you how good he really was, afterall he got his ass handed to him in the 88 Olympics by Sabonis.


Argentina have NOW 6 NBA players...
Go back to 2002... Germany 1 NBA (Dirk), Argentina 0 (Manu came after that).
After the Olympics (2004), there were 3 Argentinian players in the NBA: Manu, Delfino & Nocioni.

Sorry, but Dirk is a choker, an eternal loser.

Manu has proven that he can win in every tournament, in every country, and he can do it without having a Top 5 player like Duncan (he did it in Italy, Europe and Olympics).

I know he is not the best international player, but... let's start this thread again in 2010 :bking

[DAF86]

I know he is not the best international player, but... let's start this thread again in 2010 :bking

Who would you select instead of Manu?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Dirk > Manu



and this coming from one of the biggest Manu fans you will ever meet.

[amy020]

Of Course

[endrity]

Argentina have NOW 6 NBA players...
Go back to 2002... Germany 1 NBA (Dirk), Argentina 0 (Manu came after that).
After the Olympics (2004), there were 3 Argentinian players in the NBA: Manu, Delfino & Nocioni.

Sorry, but Dirk is a choker, an eternal loser.


Manu has proven that he can win in every tournament, in every country, and he can do it without having a Top 5 player like Duncan (he did it in Italy, Europe and Olympics).

I know he is not the best international player, but... let's start this thread again in 2010 :bking

Yet Germany could win all the upcoming FIBA tournaments and Patrick Femerling and Mithat Demirel could never sniff the NBA.

How is Dirk a choker in international ball (he isn't one even in the NBA but whatever)? Do you know what he has achieved or not? It seems like you really need to watch more.

Ginobili played for an Argentina team that is one of the most talented top to bottom teams in the international arena. He was their leader, no doubt. But that team had a lot of good players, very good coaching, and a familiarity of playing together for a decade. He didn't win the Olympics by himself.

And Kinder Bologna in Italy wasn't chopped liver you know.

[Udrihlooms]

I love Manu, but just the fantasy of what Tim could have achieved if the Spurs core is Timmy-Dirk-Parker-Bowen + Pop . MJ's 6 rings will easily be eclipsed by Tim. I can't even start what to imagine.

Yes, I must admit, TIM+DIRK>>>>>TIM+MANU

[romain.star]

Call me when Tony wins an olympic gold medal

put manu in TP shoes, France still doesn't qualify for the Olympics

[DAF86]

put manu in TP shoes, France still doesn't qualify for the Olympics

Argentina wouldn't be an olympic champion with Tony instead of Manu

[gilmor]

MANU is the best player ever lives..

Save some freakish Alien in planet Sporks who prob can play better than him without oxygen..

[DAF86]

I love Manu, but just the fantasy of what Tim could have achieved if the Spurs core is Timmy-Dirk-Parker-Bowen + Pop . MJ's 6 rings will easily be eclipsed by Tim. I can't even start what to imagine.

Yes, I must admit, TIM+DIRK>>>>>TIM+MANU

Manu'd have found the way to win a NBA championship anyways and Dirk'd have found they way to CHOKE!!! :lol (ok i'll admit that that last part isn't entirely fair but until someone proves the oposite...)

[DAF86]

MANU is the best player ever lives..

Save some freakish Alien in planet Sporks who prob can play better than him without oxygen..

WHAT!?

[Udrihlooms]

MANU is the best player ever lives..

Save some freakish Alien in planet Sporks who prob can play better than him without oxygen..

Hey, dude, have you ever heard of that guy named Michael... Michael Jordan, I think? He's wearing jersey #23. I heard that he's also good, though probably not as good as Manu. You think so, huh?

[Udrihlooms]

Manu'd have found the way to win a NBA championship anyways and Dirk'd have found they way to CHOKE!!! :lol (ok i'll admit that that last part isn't entirely fair but until someone proves the oposite...)

They'll never win, and Dirk will always be a choker, not until they fire our beloved AJ. :lmao AJ is still a spur at heart.

I'm just praying that when they fire AJ, Pop will not make him an assistant or else we'll be fu(ked!

[romain.star]

Argentina wouldn't be an olympic champion with Tony instead of Manu

I wouldn't be so sure...

Anyway, I just meant that there were other great players along with manu during the olympic run. The same can't be said about Parker and France.

[DAF86]

I love Manu, but just the fantasy of what Tim could have achieved if the Spurs core is Timmy-Dirk-Parker-Bowen + Pop . MJ's 6 rings will easily be eclipsed by Tim. I can't even start what to imagine.

Yes, I must admit, TIM+DIRK>>>>>TIM+MANU

Do you think that the Spurs'd have won the 05 championship with Dirk instead of Manu?
You always need an All-star quality guard to get the job done in crunch time.

[Udrihlooms]

Do you think that the Spurs'd have won the 05 championship with Dirk instead of Manu?
You always need an All-star quality guard to get the job done in crunch time.


I really don't know. Neither of us can be certain about it.

But I'm sure that we lost the '06 because of that boneheaded Manu foul to Dirk.

If Tim is teaming up with an agile big who can shoot both inside/outside, dribble and requires at least a double team, and a PG (Parker) who is lightning quick, I don't know how our opponents will guard us without asking Stern to change the rules to allow 6-on-5 or probably 7-on-5. :toast

[DAF86]

I wouldn't be so sure...

Anyway, I just meant that there were other great players along with manu during the olympic run. The same can't be said about Parker and France.

Bealive me I'm an Argie and I know that without Manu our national team wouldn't even be half as good.

Anyway, why did you start talking 'bout Parker all of a sudden?

[romain.star]

Do you think that the Spurs'd have won the 05 championship with Dirk instead of Manu?
You always need an All-star quality guard to get the job done in crunch time.

with a Nazr - Tim - Dirk - Bruce - TP team... there's no crunch time

[Udrihlooms]

with a Nazr - Tim - Dirk - Bruce - TP team... there's no crunch time


:lol

+1

Tim-Dirk-Parker>>>>>>>>>>>>KG-Pierce-Allen

[romain.star]

Bealive me I'm an Argie and I know that without Manu our national team wouldn't even be half as good.

Anyway, why did you start talking 'bout Parker all of a sudden?

1. With Manu, Argentina is an excellent team, without him, it's a very, very good team.

2. Because all of a sudden, you said something like "call me when TP wins the olympics" in one of your previous post

[DAF86]

I really don't know. Neither of us can be certain about it.

But I'm sure that we lost the '06 because of that boneheaded Manu foul to Dirk.

If Tim is teaming up with an agile big who can shoot both inside/outside, dribble and requires at least a double team, and a PG (Parker) who is lightning quick, I don't know how our opponents will guard us without asking Stern to change the rules to allow 6-on-5 or probably 7-on-5. :toast

But then you wouldn't have an All-star wingman, which happens to be your clutchest guy and a proven winner.
I don't know, maybe the spurs with Dirk'd have been the best team ever or the most talented team to never win a championship we'll never know. What we do know is that in five years with Manu the Spurs have won three of these :lobt: I don't know how much better the Spurs'd have done

[Udrihlooms]

But then you wouldn't have an All-star wingman, which happens to be your clutchest guy and a proven winner.
I don't know, maybe the spurs with Dirk'd have been the best team ever or the most talented team to never won a championship we'll never know. What we do know is that in five years with Manu the Spurs have won three of these :lobt: I don't know how much better the Spurs'd have done

That's cool man. I perfectly understand that you're an Argentinian and of course you should be rooting for Manu.

I'm all about Timmy ;) it's just my personal opinion that Timmy may (or may not) have won more with Dirk in this fantasy discussion of ours.:toast

[DAF86]

2. Because all of a sudden, you said something like "call me when TP wins the olympics" in one of your previous post

:oops sorry my bad, that wasn't intended to diss parker or something like that. It was just a response to a guy that said that Parker has a better career than Manu.

P.S: Just for the record i like tony. I think that he's a great player but he doesn't have a better career than Manu in terms of 'ships.

[DAF86]

That's cool man. I perfectly understand that you're an Argentinian and of course you should be rooting for Manu.

I'm all about Timmy ;) it's just my personal opinion that Timmy may (or may not) have won more with Dirk in this fantasy discussion of ours.:toast

:tu it's all goood!
In this fantasy discussion of ours can i imagine what'd have been if Manu'd have landed in LA with Shaq and Kobe then?
That'd have sucked for me though 'cause i'm a Spurs fan since '99 way before Manu got to San Antonio

[Udrihlooms]

:tu it's all goood!
In this fantasy discussion of ours can i imagine what'd have been if Manu'd have landed in LA with Shaq and Kobe then?
That'd have sucked for me though 'cause i'm a Spurs fan since '99 way before Manu got to San Antonio

Shaq-Kobe-Manu??? that'll be hilarious. manu will asked to be traded if he lands and play with these two egotistic (but yes, I admit great) players. Might as well land with the Knicks.

[romain.star]

:oops sorry my bad, that wasn't intended to diss parker or something like that. It was just a response to a guy that said that Parker has a better career than Manu.

P.S: Just for the record i like tony. I think that he's a great player but he doesn't have a better career than Manu in terms of 'ships.

No problem... I'm french but my favorite spurs are Timmy and Manu. Not Tony. Surprising isn't it?
But I'm just tired of biased posts from some Argies about Manu being the best of the best and bla bla bla. It sometimes becomes ridiculous

[DAF86]

No problem... I'm french but my favorite spurs are Timmy and Manu. Not Tony. Surprising isn't it?
But I'm just tired of biased posts from some Argies about Manu being the best of the best and bla bla bla. It sometimes becomes ridiculous

Yeah, I also hate when some of my countrymen say bullshit like: "Manu's the best player ever" or "this is Manu's team not Duncan's" but I don't think that this thread fits among those remarks.
I truly bealive that's ok to ask if Manu's the best FIBA player to play in the NBA. I can't remember another FIBA player that have won all the things that Manu won while beign a very important part of his team success. The closest thing I can think of is Tony, but he doesn't have all the european 'ships and the Olympic gold (and besides he got to the NBA when he's 19 so i don't know how much of a FIBA player he is).

[ManuAddicted]

Yet Germany could win all the upcoming FIBA tournaments and Patrick Femerling and Mithat Demirel could never sniff the NBA.

How is Dirk a choker in international ball (he isn't one even in the NBA but whatever)? Do you know what he has achieved or not? It seems like you really need to watch more.

Ginobili played for an Argentina team that is one of the most talented top to bottom teams in the international arena. He was their leader, no doubt. But that team had a lot of good players, very good coaching, and a familiarity of playing together for a decade. He didn't win the Olympics by himself.

And Kinder Bologna in Italy wasn't chopped liver you know.

You can say that NOW... But...

Who, in the entire world, guessed that Argentina could beat the USA Team in 2002 and get a silver medal? Who many of you knew who was Ginobili, Nocioni, Oberto, at that time? And, by the way, Argentina lost that final because some irregular officiating AND a injuried Manu.

I have downloaded a lot of stuff since that. In 2004, many reporters and ex players talked about who could won the Olympics. Almost everyone thougth that USA Team were going to get the gold, even argentinian journalist!. Only one among them predicted Argentina could do it... ONLY ONE!! (Simone Sandri).

I insist... You know NOW who are (and what are capable of) Scola, Nocioni, Oberto, Sanchez, Delfino... but at that time... how many of you really thought they could be a Top-3 team?

[bresilhac]

I think Dirk is better than Ginobli

Let's face it. A far as clutch, playoff performances Gino is superior to Nowitski. In games that matter the most there is no question that Gino is better. Some will argue that stats are the true indicator of greatness but for me it's in the clutch performances that are the real indicator of greatness. Manu is a winner. Plain and simple. Very similar to LA's Bryant minus the attitude.

[Pero]

You can say that NOW... But...

Who, in the entire world, guessed that Argentina could beat the USA Team in 2002 and get a silver medal? Who many of you knew who was Ginobili, Nocioni, Oberto, at that time? And, by the way, Argentina lost that final because some irregular officiating AND a injuried Manu.

I have downloaded a lot of stuff since that. In 2004, many reporters and ex players talked about who could won the Olympics. Almost everyone thougth that USA Team were going to get the gold, even argentinian journalist!. Only one among them predicted Argentina could do it... ONLY ONE!! (Simone Sandri).

I insist... You know NOW who are (and what are capable of) Scola, Nocioni, Oberto, Sanchez, Delfino... but at that time... how many of you really thought they could be a Top-3 team?

WTF? Do you know NOW who Demirel, Okulaja, Femerling, Roller, Garett etc.. are??? And still Dirk led his team to 3rd place in WC and 2nd and 3rd in Europe.

[Str8Ballin]

Manu is the greatest flopper ever.

[ManuAddicted]

WTF? Do you know NOW who Demirel, Okulaja, Femerling, Roller, Garett etc.. are??? And still Dirk led his team to 3rd place in WC and 2nd and 3rd in Europe.

Yes... but 2nd, 3rd... never 1st.

Never 1st. He doesn't have the things needed to be a winner.

He choked leading role players. And now that he has anoter great player with him, like Kidd, he still chokes. 0-2 now, and what is the excuse this year?

Until he gets any trophy, for me he'll never be better than Manu. And I'm not in CoM.

Peace! :toast

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The player Olajuwon is great great player before in playoffs.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Seriously, some of you have to read about Dirk's international accomplishments.

Germany has some guys that play in second leagues around Europe, pretty much amateurs, and Dirk has made them a contender in every Euro and World Championship, medalling three times I think. Argentina on the other hand has six NBA players and consitently produces talented basketball players.

He has been World Championship MVP once, in Indy, and Euro MVP twice I think. He has always been in the tournament's First Team.

Dirk is as much a legend in the FIBA tournaments as he is in the NBA. Someone should go and watch his game winners against Spain, Russia, Nigeria the last few years. And if you didn't know this: He singlehandedly carried Germany in almost beating the US a couple of years ago. US was saved by an AI 3 point heave from midcourt as time was expiring.

If Hakeem is not considered an international, than Dirk is the best ever. Too bad we never saw Sabonis at his best. The Admiral can tell you how good he really was, afterall he got his ass handed to him in the 88 Olympics by Sabonis.

From person who has see Sabonis before injuries I can say truth. Compares to player like Olajuwon he is nothing.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You gotta realize that his career was already in decline when he entered the NBA. Yes, he was good in the NBA but if he could have played there sooner, the Blazers would probably win a championship or two with him.

Sabonis is great player yes but I believe Manu is better. Yes I say it Manu is better than Sabas were.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

No.

Hell Petrovic was always in my mind the best, but its a shame we will never know how his career would play out.

Drazen is great player yes but not even best of his time of players. I will never believe he is as good as Galis. Fan saying Galis is not better than him is obvious never see Galis in prime.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

For me, international should be one that hasn't played in high school and/or college in the US, has played in a pro league abroad and most important, plays for a national team other than USA Basketball. The NBA may consider birthplace to label a player as "international", but that's a marketing strategy. I just can't consider Tim Duncan or Hakeem Olajuwon "international" when they've represented USA Basketball in the Olympics and World Championships.

If we are counting NBA achievements only, then no, but he is in the top 5. If individual and team trophies achieved elsewhere are taken into the mix, he's a top 3 without a doubt. The same applies for Sabonis, if you take his overseas career, he is a lock for the first or second place.

Dirk and Nash are the opposite, their NBA careers help their cause, but their international resume doesn't add much.

However, many of these players are still active, so at least a couple of years would be needed to measure their careers.

My top 10, right now:
1- Sabonis
2- Manu
3- Dirk
4- Nash
5- Petrovic
6- Kukoc
7- Mutombo
8- Tony Parker
9- Dino Radja
10- Rik Smits/ Vlade Divac

But that's a list made on the run and I'm probably forgetting a couple of names.

I am very confuse. This list just for NBA player or for all the international player? I hope this just for international player which has play in NBA. if this not such thing this list is joke sorry but true.

[DAF86]

The player Olajuwon is great great player before in playoffs.

Olajuwon played for the U.S national team, so we're not counting him as an international player

[duncan7721]

Anybody remember the big chinese dude with the Rockets?Yao has got to be in there somewhere. And in the manu vs dirk issue, if we were measuring on regular season success, dirk. But dirk is on the verge of being swept, and manu is on the verge of winning the series of the year. Manu.

[duncan7721]

Besides Olajuwon, i forgot to say...

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Olajuwon played for the U.S national team, so we're not counting him as an international player

Is list just for the international player that plays in NBA? Why fan here not count all international player? Fans here believe only ones plays in NBA can be considers?

This is stupid many of best international players and better than ones in names here have never play in NBA. I not even see Bodiroga Belov or Galis even talks about here.

yes Sabonis and Petrovic were great players but why no one mentions these others. What about Marcuilonis and he also plays NBA like Drazen do and Sabas do? I can names many great players that not play in NBA. What about Papaloukas? What about McAdoo do he not count? What about Giannakis?

Do fan here even know what Galis is able to do? Is he player only know in Greece? Stupid thing how American player never get credit. He is greatest FIBA player so far not Manu.

[duncan228]

Is list just for the international player that plays in NBA?

That's the title of the thread. Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Anybody remember the big chinese dude with the Rockets?Yao has got to be in there somewhere. And in the manu vs dirk issue, if we were measuring on regular season success, dirk. But dirk is on the verge of being swept, and manu is on the verge of winning the series of the year. Manu.

Yao is better center than Sabonis even before Sabonis have injury. Sabonis before injury I say probable better than Ilgauskas and Divac. But not Yao. Honest I think even Gasol and Dirk is better in FIBA and yes Yao than Sabonis. But Sabonis still very good. Just know almost all Lithuania players overrate because Lithuania have similar system as US.

Hype and promote players like US do. Marcuilonis is easy best player of Lithuania and no person ever hear about him just about Sabonis and Jasekivicius and remembers how every person claim Jasekivicius is best "Europe player ever":lol

You can no trust lies about how good Lithuania players are because many fans of Europe have crazy idea of basketball. Such players like Jasekivicius Macijauskas and Siskauskas are all great player for Europe but they are overrate. Spanoulis is player with 2 years only in Europe and he is already superior by far to these such player. But just hear how he "suck" and how they so good.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That's the title of the thread. Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA.

But thread make no sense. International player mean player who play international basketball. So topic is error. If say "best foreign player" then make sense but as is calls make no sense.

Actual any NBA player that play for US team is also international player.

[DAF86]

Is list just for the international player that plays in NBA? Why fan here not count all international player? Fans here believe only ones plays in NBA can be considers?

This is stupid many of best international players and better than ones in names here have never play in NBA. I not even see Bodiroga Belov or Galis even talks about here.

yes Sabonis and Petrovic were great players but why no one mentions these others. What about Marcuilonis? I can names many great players that not play in NBA. What about Papaloukas? What about McAdoo do he not count? What about Giannakis?

Do fan here even know what Galis is able to do? Is he player only know in Greece? Stupid thing how American player never get credit. He is greatest FIBA player so far not Manu.

If you want start a thread saying: "Who's the best Fiba player? (period)"

I'd still bealive is Manu.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

If you want start a thread saying: "Who's the best Fiba player? (period)"

I'd still bealive is Manu.

Galis is best and Manu is second best so far. It is true. I love Manu so much as player how he play in Euroleague is amazing still some thing he can do then he lose in NBA because older.

But no he is not as much good in FIBA as Galis were. But I guess Galis not count because he American player. But he is best of FIBA player ever. True thing must be state and it is true.

[DAF86]

Anybody remember the big chinese dude with the Rockets?Yao has got to be in there somewhere. And in the manu vs dirk issue, if we were measuring on regular season success, dirk. But dirk is on the verge of being swept, and manu is on the verge of winning the series of the year. Manu.

Yao? are you serious? Yao haven't done anything meaningfull yet.

And 'bout the Dirk vs Manu thing, it's easy, what'd you rather have?

A regular season MVP or an euroleague (plus MVP) an olympic gold medal (plus MVP) and three NBA championships (plus 6th man award :rolleyes).

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yao? are you serious? Yao haven't done anything meaningfull yet.

And 'bout the Dirk vs Manu thing, it's easy, what'd you rather have?

A regular season MVP or an euroleague (plus MVP) an olympic gold medal (plus MVP) and three NBA championships (plus 6th man award :rolleyes).

Hmm I think Manu win final MVP not MVP in Euroleague. Also this year is * year because two champions and two MVP. This is year best teams of Europe not compete in Euroleague.

Of all things Manu do Euroleague final MVP and title this year is not much compare to other things he do. World Champions 2nd place is much more than this and no fan bring this up. Euroleague title and final MVP that year is not much of great thing.

[yourtehclay]

Even though I hate Dirk, you really have to put him above Manu on the list. It's closer than one would imagine though.

[DAF86]

Galis is best and Manu is second best so far. It is true. I love Manu so much as player how he play in Euroleague is amazing still some thing he can do then he lose in NBA because older.

But no he is not as much good in FIBA as Galis were. But I guess Galis not count because he American player. But he is best of FIBA player ever. True thing must be state and it is true.

I'd take three NBA rings, an euroleague and an olympic gold medal over an european cup anyday of the week.

[DAF86]

Hmm I think Manu win final MVP not MVP in Euroleague. Also this year is * year because two champions and two MVP. This is year best teams of Europe not compete in Euroleague.

Of all things Manu do Euroleague final MVP and title this year is not much compare to other things he do. World Champions 2nd place is much more than this and no fan bring this up. Euroleague title and final MVP that year is not much of great thing.

Fine I'll give you the euroleague, it's still a pretty nice resume

[DAF86]

Even though I hate Dirk, you really have to put him above Manu on the list. It's closer than one would imagine though.

Why? seriously, think about it. Who'd you rather be? Shit i'd even prefer to have an Argie league championship than a NBA MVP.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Why? seriously, think about it. Who'd you rather be? Shit i'd even prefer to have an Argie league championship than a NBA MVP.

now you're just being ridiculous

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

FIBA says this of Galis

Since the birth of the European Championships in 1935 and the first European club competition in 1958, literally thousands of players have stepped up to play at the top level. Yet few have had the impact on the record books as that of former Greek superstar, Nick Galis.

Playing in the 1980‘s and early 1990‘s, Galis literally broke scoring records in almost every competition he entered, playing for Aris Thessaloniki and Panathinaikos Athens. He also masterminded the greatest ever achievement of any Greek national team, namely a gold medal at the 1987 European Championship.



Galis displaying his deadly shooting touch
“I’d love to play with Galis in the same team,” said the legendary Drazen Petrovic before his death in 1993.

“I would assist him the ball and he would put it in the basket.”

Nick Galis, a 183 cm guard, was born in New Jersey (USA) on July 23rd 1957. Although he was not born on Greek soil, his Greek nationality was unquestionable. His parents, Giorgos and Stella, hailed from the island of Rhodos and when Galis first came to Greece he was known as Nickos Georgalis-Galis.

Galis’ first sport was actually boxing, but his mother soon put the clamps on his burgeoning career. Her horror at seeing her son come home every day with a new facial injury led to Galis taking up basketball and in 1970 began to play at Union Hill High School.

His prep career was successful enough to earn him a scholarship to the University of Seton Hall and he did not disappoint. In his junior year (1977-78) he averaged 17.3 points per game and as a senior he led the nation in scoring (Indiana State forward Larry Bird was second) at 27.5 points per game, with a career high 48 points against the University of Santa Clara.

Galis was chosen at no. 68 by the Boston Celtics in the 1979 NBA draft, but elected instead to pursue a professional career in Greece.

It was a decision which would literally change the future of Greek basketball.

Panathinaikos and Olympiakos had showed some interest in the newcomer, but it was Aris Thessaloniki who were the most active club. Giorgos Tsiligaridis was sent by Aris to the USA to convince Galis to sign with his team and he managed to return with his signature on a contract.

Galis came to Thessaloniki at the start of the 1979-1980 and it took the young guard all of one game to show his potential. In his debut he lit up rival Thessaloniki club Iraklis for 30 points and an epic career was underway.

Galis’ career is perhaps best summed up by the record books. He played 13 seasons with Aris, winning eight Greek titles, five Greek Cups, one Korac Cup (1985) and also making three EuroLeague Final Four appearances. Of the eight Greek titles, six were consecutive during which Aris put together a remarkable 80 game winning streak.

Along with the team success came the individual accolades. Galis led the Greek League in scoring in every single one of his 15 seasons. He is the league’s all-time leading scorer with a total of 12,849 points in 384 games and a remarkable average of 33.4 points per game.

His career high output was 62 points which came against Nikeas-Aris in 1981. He also torched Panellinios for 57 points in the 1987 final of the Greek Cup and his career high in European competition was 57 against Venice during the 1981 Korac Cup.

Galis was also a loyal servant of the Greek national team. His first game came during the 1980 pre-Olympic tournament and he would go on to play 168 times for his country. He is second on the all-time scoring list to former Aris team-mate Panagiotis Yiannakis at 5,130 points (Yiannakis scored 5,282 points in 351 games for Greece).

Galis’ crowning glory came literally during the 1987 European Championship which was held in Greece. He led his side to the gold medal and also earned tournament MVP honours in the process. He naturally led all players in scoring, including 40 points in the final, a 103-101 victory over the Soviet Union.

That performance led former Soviet Union star Sergey Belov to comment:

“I admire him. When he plays one against one there is no way to stop him. I never thought that could be a player who could on his own beat the Soviet Union.”

The praise from the Soviet Union continued in the form of coach Alexander Gomelski, who called Galis the “player of the 21st century”.

Galis also won a sliver medal at the 1989 European Championship in Zagreb and participated in a total of five European Championships. He was the top scorer at all of them except for the 1989 Championship. Galis participated in one World Championship in 1986, where he again led all players in scoring, and had a 53-point outburst against Panama.

Galis’ ability to put the ball in the basket compounded opposing players and coaches alike.

“I feel that if Galis wants to make a basket, he will do it no matter who his opponent is,” said Lithuanian star Arvydas Sabonis.

For those coaches who he came up against, most strategies to stop him proved futile. Former Nashua Den Bosh coach Rood Harrewain advocated locking Galis in the dressing room before the game, while Wojeck Krajowski of Lech Poznan looked to a higher power:

“Before the game we made our plans on how we will stop the four players of Aris,” he said following a European club competition game.

“For Galis, we made our prayers…”

In some ways, Galis’ scoring feats overshadow the fact that he was also a great playmaker. In 1990 he dished 23 assists in a European Cup game against Finish side Uusikaoupounk and in the 1992/93 season with Panathinaikos he was the Greek League’s best passer at 6.7 assists per game. During that season he also recorded a remarkable double-double, hitting a perfect 13/13 field goals and dishing 19 assists against former side Aris.

After he stopped playing basketball, Galis founded a Basketball Camp for kids at the village of Pefkochori in Halkidiki. This camp every year has more than 3, 000 kids who learn basketball from the great Nick.

Nick Galis - Scoring Machine

Competition Games Points Average
Greek League 384 12,849 33.4
Greek Cup 55 1,935 35.2
European Cups 146 4,807 32.9
National Team 168 5,130 30.5
Total 753 24,721 32.8

Titles

Greek Championship 8
1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991
Greek Cup 6
1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993

European Championship for Men 2
Gold 1987, Silver 1989

European Championship for Clubs
Final-Four 4 1988 4th, 1989 4th, 1990 3rd, 1994 3rd

European Cups 1
European Cup Winner 1985

And remembers FIBA assist is - 2 NBA assist thinks about this when read these numbers.

[DAF86]

now you're just being ridiculous

So you prefer individual awards over real ones?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

So you prefer individual awards over real ones?

An NBA regular season MVP award is very real. Besides, what the hell are you arguing anyways?? Doesn't individual greatness come with individual achievements as well? Just because the Argie league championship is a team accolade doesn't immediately give it importance. The level of talent and importance between the NBA and Argentina is so enormous its unsurmountable in terms of importance.

To answer your question, yes I believe that an NBA regular season MVP has more weight in determining the greatness of a player than an Argie championship does :lol and its not even close.

[DAF86]

An NBA regular season MVP award is very real. Besides, what the hell are you arguing anyways?? Doesn't individual greatness come with individual achievements as well? Just because the Argie league championship is a team accolade doesn't immediately give it importance. The level of talent and importance between the NBA and Argentina is so enormous its unsurmountable in terms of importance.

To answer your question, yes I believe that an NBA regular season MVP has more weight in determining the greatness of a player than an Argie championship does :lol and its not even close.

I didn't say that NBA MVP's are less important than Argie 'ships in terms of determining the greatness of a player. I just say that I'd rather have a champion of something (no matter how little) than an individual award. And i'm sure that Manu thinks similar.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I didn't say that NBA MVP's are less important than Argie 'ships in terms of determining the greatness of a player. I just say that I'd rather have a champion of something (no matter how little) than an individual award. And i'm sure that Manu thinks similar.

Manu might think similar when talking about an NBA mvp award and an NBA championship, but if you're trying to tell me that he would choose an Argie league title over an NBA regular season mvp award, I don't buy it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that's not the case. Lets face it, Manu might be humble, but he's not completely devoid of pride. He appreciates meaningful individual awards as much as the next player. He's not freaking mother Teresa for Christ sake!

[DAF86]

FIBA says this of Galis

Since the birth of the European Championships in 1935 and the first European club competition in 1958, literally thousands of players have stepped up to play at the top level. Yet few have had the impact on the record books as that of former Greek superstar, Nick Galis.

Playing in the 1980‘s and early 1990‘s, Galis literally broke scoring records in almost every competition he entered, playing for Aris Thessaloniki and Panathinaikos Athens. He also masterminded the greatest ever achievement of any Greek national team, namely a gold medal at the 1987 European Championship.



Galis displaying his deadly shooting touch
“I’d love to play with Galis in the same team,” said the legendary Drazen Petrovic before his death in 1993.

“I would assist him the ball and he would put it in the basket.”

Nick Galis, a 183 cm guard, was born in New Jersey (USA) on July 23rd 1957. Although he was not born on Greek soil, his Greek nationality was unquestionable. His parents, Giorgos and Stella, hailed from the island of Rhodos and when Galis first came to Greece he was known as Nickos Georgalis-Galis.

Galis’ first sport was actually boxing, but his mother soon put the clamps on his burgeoning career. Her horror at seeing her son come home every day with a new facial injury led to Galis taking up basketball and in 1970 began to play at Union Hill High School.

His prep career was successful enough to earn him a scholarship to the University of Seton Hall and he did not disappoint. In his junior year (1977-78) he averaged 17.3 points per game and as a senior he led the nation in scoring (Indiana State forward Larry Bird was second) at 27.5 points per game, with a career high 48 points against the University of Santa Clara.

Galis was chosen at no. 68 by the Boston Celtics in the 1979 NBA draft, but elected instead to pursue a professional career in Greece.

It was a decision which would literally change the future of Greek basketball.

Panathinaikos and Olympiakos had showed some interest in the newcomer, but it was Aris Thessaloniki who were the most active club. Giorgos Tsiligaridis was sent by Aris to the USA to convince Galis to sign with his team and he managed to return with his signature on a contract.

Galis came to Thessaloniki at the start of the 1979-1980 and it took the young guard all of one game to show his potential. In his debut he lit up rival Thessaloniki club Iraklis for 30 points and an epic career was underway.

Galis’ career is perhaps best summed up by the record books. He played 13 seasons with Aris, winning eight Greek titles, five Greek Cups, one Korac Cup (1985) and also making three EuroLeague Final Four appearances. Of the eight Greek titles, six were consecutive during which Aris put together a remarkable 80 game winning streak.

Along with the team success came the individual accolades. Galis led the Greek League in scoring in every single one of his 15 seasons. He is the league’s all-time leading scorer with a total of 12,849 points in 384 games and a remarkable average of 33.4 points per game.

His career high output was 62 points which came against Nikeas-Aris in 1981. He also torched Panellinios for 57 points in the 1987 final of the Greek Cup and his career high in European competition was 57 against Venice during the 1981 Korac Cup.

Galis was also a loyal servant of the Greek national team. His first game came during the 1980 pre-Olympic tournament and he would go on to play 168 times for his country. He is second on the all-time scoring list to former Aris team-mate Panagiotis Yiannakis at 5,130 points (Yiannakis scored 5,282 points in 351 games for Greece).

Galis’ crowning glory came literally during the 1987 European Championship which was held in Greece. He led his side to the gold medal and also earned tournament MVP honours in the process. He naturally led all players in scoring, including 40 points in the final, a 103-101 victory over the Soviet Union.

That performance led former Soviet Union star Sergey Belov to comment:

“I admire him. When he plays one against one there is no way to stop him. I never thought that could be a player who could on his own beat the Soviet Union.”

The praise from the Soviet Union continued in the form of coach Alexander Gomelski, who called Galis the “player of the 21st century”.

Galis also won a sliver medal at the 1989 European Championship in Zagreb and participated in a total of five European Championships. He was the top scorer at all of them except for the 1989 Championship. Galis participated in one World Championship in 1986, where he again led all players in scoring, and had a 53-point outburst against Panama.

Galis’ ability to put the ball in the basket compounded opposing players and coaches alike.

“I feel that if Galis wants to make a basket, he will do it no matter who his opponent is,” said Lithuanian star Arvydas Sabonis.

For those coaches who he came up against, most strategies to stop him proved futile. Former Nashua Den Bosh coach Rood Harrewain advocated locking Galis in the dressing room before the game, while Wojeck Krajowski of Lech Poznan looked to a higher power:

“Before the game we made our plans on how we will stop the four players of Aris,” he said following a European club competition game.

“For Galis, we made our prayers…”

In some ways, Galis’ scoring feats overshadow the fact that he was also a great playmaker. In 1990 he dished 23 assists in a European Cup game against Finish side Uusikaoupounk and in the 1992/93 season with Panathinaikos he was the Greek League’s best passer at 6.7 assists per game. During that season he also recorded a remarkable double-double, hitting a perfect 13/13 field goals and dishing 19 assists against former side Aris.

After he stopped playing basketball, Galis founded a Basketball Camp for kids at the village of Pefkochori in Halkidiki. This camp every year has more than 3, 000 kids who learn basketball from the great Nick.

Nick Galis - Scoring Machine

Competition Games Points Average
Greek League 384 12,849 33.4
Greek Cup 55 1,935 35.2
European Cups 146 4,807 32.9
National Team 168 5,130 30.5
Total 753 24,721 32.8

Titles

Greek Championship 8
1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991
Greek Cup 6
1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993

European Championship for Men 2
Gold 1987, Silver 1989

European Championship for Clubs
Final-Four 4 1988 4th, 1989 4th, 1990 3rd, 1994 3rd

European Cups 1
European Cup Winner 1985

And remembers FIBA assist is - 2 NBA assist thinks about this when read these numbers.

I know who Galis is i've seen him play, he's great and i'd have love to see him in the NBA but you have to ackowladge that Manu resume is better than Nick's. If you want to count the Greek 'ships then you also have to put the Italian 'ships of Manu. And like I said in europe Manu 's the same amount of 'ships that Galis has in lots of less years.

[DAF86]

Manu might think similar when talking about an NBA mvp award and an NBA championship, but if you're trying to tell me that he would choose an Argie league title over an NBA regular season mvp award, I don't buy it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that's not the case. Lets face it, Manu might be humble, but he's not completely devoid of pride. He appreciates meaningful individual awards as much as the next player. He's not freaking mother Teresa for Christ sake!

:lol Well, we'll have to ask him.
Now that he's won everything he ever dream of I'm sure he'd prefer a NBA MVP over an Argie 'ship but if he wouldn't have won anything ever I'm sure he'd rather be a champion of something before getting an individual award.

[timvp]

Shit i'd even prefer to have an Argie league championship than a NBA MVP.Wowch.

[DAF86]

Wowch.

Wowch indeed

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I know who Galis is i've seen him play, he's great and i'd have love to see him in the NBA but you have to ackowladge that Manu resume is better than Nick's. If you want to count the Greek 'ships then you also have to put the Italian 'ships of Manu. And like I said in europe Manu 's the same amount of 'ships that Galis has in lots of less years.

You say best FIBA player you not say anything about best player of best FIBA teams. If Galis have some of Manu teammates he will have won many championships.

You realize he is one who make basketball in Greece? before him there is nothing in Greek basketball. he is beating Soviet Union twice in biggest FIBA competitions and he is do it with country that have no basketball developing. It is his games there that create sport in Greece. He have 40 point game against Soviet team in 1987 and 45 point game against them in 1989. He outscore Sabonis before injury 45-19 in this game.

This is SAME Soviet team that is so good it cause US to go to pro players for 1992 Olympics to be able to win them. You must think serious about what you are saying.

[DAF86]

You say best FIBA player you not say anything about best player of best FIBA teams. If Galis have some of Manu teammates he will have won many championships.

You realize he is one who make basketball in Greece? before him there is nothing in Greek basketball. he is beating Soviet Union twice in biggest FIBA competitions and he is do it with country that have no basketball developing. It is his games there that create sport in Greece. He have 40 point game against Soviet team in 1987 and 45 point game against them in 1989. He outscore Sabonis before injury 45-19 in this game.

This is SAME Soviet team that is so good it cause US to go to pro players for 1992 Olympics to be able to win them. You must think serious about what you are saying.

Galis is among the best players I've ever seen but you need to consider the level of competition he faced and what he accomplished. Only 1 euro 'ship seems to little to consider somebody as the greatest FIBA player ever. Anyway this thread was 'bout the best international player in the NBA

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Galis is among the best players I've ever seen but you need to consider the level of competition he faced and what he accomplished. Only 1 euro 'ship seems to little to consider somebody as the greatest FIBA player ever. Anyway this thread was 'bout the best international player in the NBA

Manu can be this if win NBA title and get medal again at Olympia. But Yao is player can take this from him also. if he stay healthy one of these years he is will lead team to championship I think.

[Pero]

Yes... but 2nd, 3rd... never 1st.

Never 1st. He doesn't have the things needed to be a winner.

He choked leading role players. And now that he has anoter great player with him, like Kidd, he still chokes. 0-2 now, and what is the excuse this year?

Until he gets any trophy, for me he'll never be better than Manu. And I'm not in CoM.

Peace! :toast

Yeah, but Dirk went there with virtually nobodies while Manu had a good team. Dirk would have to average like 50/20/10/5/5 to get a WC or olympics championship with that team. :lol
And Kidd isn't what he used to be.

[DAF86]

And I'm not in CoM.

Peace! :toast

Your username says "ManuAddicted" so i found that hard to bealive.

[Ariel]

I wonder how many actually saw some of those players enough to make an informed opinion. Not me, on many cases.

Let's take Petrovic, for instance. I've seen him play in international tournaments, a few NBA games and lots of clips, but how am I supposed to pass definitive judgment based on that when it's only an insignificant fraction of his career? At least I don't feel I'm in position to do so.

And then let's not even talk about Galis. How on Earth am I to say how good a player he was or not when while he was at his prime some 20 years ago I was an infant living in a country half way around the world where there was no coverage of the European leagues?

So Kill Bill, don't take it personally if people don't acknowledge Galis (and others), because I'd bet in many cases they (myself included) simply haven't seen them play enough to have a say in the matter. And I'd bet some of those opinions are based on some site's summary as opposed to personal experience.

[DAF86]

I wonder how many actually saw some of those players enough to make an informed opinion. Not me, on many cases.

Let's take Petrovic, for instance. I've seen him play in international tournaments, a few NBA games and lots of clips, but how am I supposed to pass definitive judgment based on that when it's only an insignificant fraction of his career? At least I don't feel I'm in position to do so.

And then let's not even talk about Galis. How on Earth am I to say how good a player he was or not when while he was at his prime some 20 years ago I was an infant living in a country half way around the world where there was no coverage of the European leagues?

So Kill Bill, don't take it personally if people don't acknowledge Galis (and others), because I'd bet in many cases they (myself included) simply haven't seen them play enough to have a say in the matter. And I'd bet some of those opinions are based on some site's summary as opposed to personal experience.

You look at players' resume.
And how can you say that you don't know Galis, He's known all over the world (except maybe U.S. 'cause they only care 'bout the NBA and college BB). He's one of the greatest of all time, if you are a BB fan you should know who Nick Galis is.

[Ariel]

You look at players' resume.
And how can you say that you don't know Galis, He's known all over the world (except maybe U.S. 'cause they only care 'bout the NBA and college BB). He's one of the greatest of all time, if you are a BB fan you should know who Nick Galis is.
Umm, I never said I didn't know who he was, I said I myself didn't follow his career and therefore I don't feel entitled to pass judgment on his game. Or what, am I supposed to stand here with a straight face pretending that having heard about him or googling his resume somehow qualifies me as an authority on the matter?

[Quill392013400]

At least the top 3
Don't forget he's also one of the greatest player in Europe

[HarlemHeat37]

first post..

a lot of reasonable posts in this thread, but some people are acting like huge homers..

if Olajuwon is considered as an international player, then he's easily the best..top 10 player of all-time IMO..one of the few guys in NBA history to lead a team to a championship without another all-star on his team as well(Timmy did it in 2003 too)..

Sabonis could have been 2nd if we had seen his entire career play out..I've heard many stories, and I believe them..he was a solid C in the NBA, despite being past his prime and hit by injuries..

Dirk is clearly ahead of Manu, come on guys..Dirk isn't a "choker" btw, he's just a soft player..he HAS put up big numbers in the playoffs when his team needed him, did all of you forget the series they had vs. us in 2006?..Dirk is capable of being a big-time playoff performer..he had 2 soft series vs. Miami and Dallas, but the rest of his team choked as well..even Avery choked..

Dirk is an MVP caliber 1st option, while Manu is a 2nd option..nothing wrong with speaking the truth..nobody is denying Manu's greatness, but Dirk has obviously been better..

I'd have to say Nash as well..it's hard to argue against TWO MVP's and leading a good team these past few years..

Yao is CURRENTLY a better player, but he hasn't done much in his career to give him a clear edge over Manu..

it would be easier to rank Manu at the end of his career..it'll be impossible for him to catch Dream though, there is no possible scenario..

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I am very confuse. This list just for NBA player or for all the international player? I hope this just for international player which has play in NBA. if this not such thing this list is joke sorry but true.

My reply was to the question that started the thread:


Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA?

Again...

This is stupid many of best international players and better than ones in names here have never play in NBA. I not even see Bodiroga Belov or Galis even talks about here.

yes Sabonis and Petrovic were great players but why no one mentions these others. What about Marcuilonis and he also plays NBA like Drazen do and Sabas do? I can names many great players that not play in NBA. What about Papaloukas? What about McAdoo do he not count? What about Giannakis?

Do fan here even know what Galis is able to do? Is he player only know in Greece? Stupid thing how American player never get credit. He is greatest FIBA player so far not Manu.

Is Manu the greatest international player ever in the NBA?

Keywords in bold.

And Galis better than Manu? Gimme a break...


Yao is better center than Sabonis even before Sabonis have injury. Sabonis before injury I say probable better than Ilgauskas and Divac. But not Yao. Honest I think even Gasol and Dirk is better in FIBA and yes Yao than Sabonis. But Sabonis still very good. Just know almost all Lithuania players overrate because Lithuania have similar system as US.

Hype and promote players like US do. Marcuilonis is easy best player of Lithuania and no person ever hear about him just about Sabonis and Jasekivicius and remembers how every person claim Jasekivicius is best "Europe player ever"

Yao better than Sabonis? Are you serious? Have you watched Sabonis in his prime??? Or even after his injury, he had fundamentals and a skill set that Yao could only dream about.


But thread make no sense. International player mean player who play international basketball. So topic is error. If say "best foreign player" then make sense but as is calls make no sense.

Actual any NBA player that play for US team is also international player.

In the NBA the foreign players are called "international" while in Europe "international" is used to describe players who play for their national teams.

[Brutalis]

Among fans or coaches?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Spurs win the title this year then he is #2



that gives him 4 titles, Gold medal, all star, 6th man award

[diego]

i hate these threads. but for the record...

hakeem easily wins, but i dont consider him international because he played college ball in the US and basically learned to play there. The other guys (sabonis, drazen, et all) deserve credit for being pioneers, but didnt have the protagonism of the current crop for several reasons, most outside of their own control.

nash is great offensively in a very important position, but he sucks on D and hasnt really done anything besides win 2 mvps (which are pretty controversial). also, i have a hard time considering canada international.

dirk is more well rounded than nash and is a matchup nightmare, but also hasnt really accomplished much career wise save for that MVP trophy and a finals trip.

manu has the best career of the 3 (not incl. hakeem), and is the most well rounded, however, he plays a position with many good players and is not the focal point of his team the way nash and dirk are. i think nash and dirk are more "special," but manu is more successful. as players, i would rate them:

1) dirk (standout offense, matchup problem, good rebounder, leader of his team)
2) manu (complete player, efficient winner)
3) nash (amazing on one end, liability on the other).

also, all 3 of them play on stacked teams, i dont see how someone can hold that against manu and not dirk or nash.

[Brutalis]

This is old.

We have to break it down.

Africa? Hakeem
South America? Manu

there, take it as a gift.

[Typhoon]

Vassilis Spanoulis greatest international player ever.

/THREAD

[MajorMike]

At least the top 3
Don't forget he's also one of the greatest player in Europe

Yah, he was named one of the 50 greatest Euro players of all time; no-win-ski was not mentioned.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yah, he was named one of the 50 greatest Euro players of all time; no-win-ski was not mentioned.

EuroLeague players -- not European players.

http://www.euroleague.net/history/50-years/main

To my knowledge, Nowitzki never actually played in EuroLeague.

[DAF86]

Please people, stop bringing Nowitzki up on this discussion, until he wins something, anything, at least a freaking euro-cup, he can't be on this discussion. It's like saying that Malone is better than Duncan.

And olajuwon was formed in the U.S and played for the U.S national team so he can't be considered an international player.

[Lakers_55]

Michael Jordan wins hands down. They figured out years ago he was not of this earth.

[anakha]

Michael Jordan wins hands down. They figured out years ago he was not of this earth.

* Insert obligatory Space Jam reference here

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I just have say again yes Yao is better than Sabonis in prime. if you not realize this you have no point in such topic here.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Vassilis Spanoulis greatest international player ever.

/THREAD

He only 25. He about to have 2 Greek championship and also 2 Hellenic Cup championship. He also have gold in European championship and he have silver in World Championship.

He have under 18 bronze medal for Europe. This like finish 3rd place for whole country in high school in US or much better than high school champion of state.
he also have the under 20 Europe gold medal. This like win college championship in US. He also is MVP of Europe under 20. This like have NCAA player of year and final MVP.

If he win medal at Olympia in summer and follow this with Euroleague championship he is already at age 26 one of best "international" player ever. This true even though fan not want admit it. This why he have so many hater. Even in Hellas he have so many hater much like Kobe in US do.

[Nikos]

I never saw him play, but if Nick Galis led the NATION in scoring -- why the hell was he picked so low in the NBA draft?

Was he that bad on defense?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Please people, stop bringing Nowitzki up on this discussion, until he wins something, anything, at least a freaking euro-cup, he can't be on this discussion. It's like saying that Malone is better than Duncan.

And olajuwon was formed in the U.S and played for the U.S national team so he can't be considered an international player.

If this true then Peja is Greek player. Because Peja is form and make in Greece. So from now on he must be count as Greek player.

[Nikos]

I did a quick check on WIKI


"Due to a severe injury that he suffered during the Celtics pre-season training camp, the franchise was no longer interested in offering him a contract because Gerald Henderson had taken his place[3] and his injury would keep him out for the foreseeable future. It was then that Galis decided to pursue a professional career in Greece's A1 League. A move that would change his life forever."

It couldn't have been that serious of an injury could it? I mean he did score 35ppg+ in Euro competetion same type of competetion as Petrovic, and he did well for himself in the NBA.

Did he get a injured label or something?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I never saw him play, but if Nick Galis led the NATION in scoring -- why the hell was he picked so low in the NBA draft?

Was he that bad on defense?

It is complicate issue. What happen him first is he is 6 feet tall player. Even though he great college scorer of big school Seton Hall and play good conference he play as shoot guard. he is like Iverson but many year before. In these day NBA not want shoot guard that is small. After how Galis do in Europe idea change for Iverson and he is pick for NBA.

Then Galis get stupid agent. His agent tells him thing like "if you refuse works out for any team then you can pick what team you want plays for" Team he wants play for is Celtics. And they make point not let any other team drafts him.

Celtic draft him and then bad thing for him happen. In train camp of team he gets very bad injury. I think he blows out knee or some type issue as this. He have surgery and is not play I think maybe like 6 month? Also Celtics have the player Gerald Henderson at time. So because of Galis injury they lets him go and use Henderson is his place and he is good player.

At this time president of Aris this is same club Darius Washington play for now goes to US and offers him contract. At time he is injure and no team and no money. So he take contract. Once he get to Saloniki where Aris play he love city so much and life there so much he decide he will not leave and go back NBA. He get offer several time by Celtic go back but he like Hellas so much he stay. This how I understand what happens.

[Nikos]

Some quotes on Galis


* Galis' jersey number with Aris was initially 7. He then changed it to 6 and kept it until the end. Aris has since unofficially retired the number 6. His number when playing for the Greek National Team was 4.
* Soviet Union basketball star Sergei Belov commented on 1987: "I admire him. When he plays one on one there is no way to stop him. I never thought there could be a player who could on his own beat the Soviet Union."
* Former Soviet Union coach Aleksandr Gomelsky once called him "the player of the 21st century."
* “I feel that if Galis wants to make a basket, he will do it no matter who his opponent is,” Lithuanian superstar Arvydas Sabonis has said.
* “I’d love to play with Galis in the same team,” said the legendary Dražen Petrović shortly before his death in 1993. “I would assist him the ball and he would put it in the basket.”
* Famous former NBA player Bob McAdoo has said: "I've seen Galis doing things that I have not seen either Lakers or Celtics doing."
* In October 1983, in a game between the Greek National Basketball Team and University of North Carolina in the "Dimitria" tournament, the great Michael Jordan said: "I did not expect to find such a good offensive player in Europe, especially in your country."
* Once during a pre-game press conference, the opposite coach announced "I found the way to stop Galis. I'll shoot him". :lol
* “If I'm the Devil's son, then Galis is the devil himself”, legendary Dražen Petrović has said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bender235 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)