Curious of rule technicality?

[Phenomanul]

The ball is in play, less than a second is left on the clock (in a quarter or the game), a player then hurls a half court shot (time runs down while ball is in the air) but the ball bounces on the court and into the hoop - does the shot count?

Furthermore, if the ball bounced inside the three point line does it count as a two or as a three?






This happened at my nephew's basketball game (8' rims).... the refs were stunned, perplexed, huddled for about a minute and awarded a two point basket to my nephew's team. They won by 8 points so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.

[Brutalis]

I'd guess it would count I think without any interference from a player, coach or fan. And as a two if it bounced inside the 3p line. I guess how they called it really. But that'd be so rare to happen in a major game.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm pretty sure the ball would be dead upon hitting the floor before hitting the rim.

If it was somehow still alive and bounced inside the 3-point line, I would think the shot should count as a 3 because the shooter was beyond the arc when the shot was attempted and the ball wasn't touched by another player.

Just guesses -- I suspect the rulebook would be specific enough to get an answer.

[ShoogarBear]

I've had this exact same discussion a couple of years ago, and I'm pretty sure it was on this board.

And why would it matter where the ball bounced? I recall the rule only talks about where the player is when he shoots the ball. But only if the clock hadn't gone off before the ball goes through the basket, like FWD said.

[Phenomanul]

I've had this exact same discussion a couple of years ago, and I'm pretty sure it was on this board.

And why would it matter where the ball bounced? I recall the rule only talks about where the player is when he shoots the ball.

Because people were surprised when only a two was awarded... even people from the other team were in awe of the play... too bad I didn't look around for someone with a digital cam - to youtube the clip.

[FromWayDowntown]

From the NBA rule book -- as to the bounce affecting how the basket would be scored:

RULE NO. 5—SCORING AND TIMING
Section I—Scoring

* * * *

c. A successful field goal attempt from the area outside the three-point field goal line
shall count three points.
(1) The shooter must have at least one foot on the floor outside the three-point field
goal line prior to the attempt.
(2) The shooter may not be touching the floor on or inside the three-point field goal
line.
(3) The shooter may contact the three-point field goal line, or land in the two-point
field goal area, after the ball is released

[ancestron]

If time has expired before the ball hits the floor then the ball is dead when it touches the court, and the basket made off the bounce would not count. If there is still time on the clock when the ball bounces the shot would count.

[Phenomanul]

I wouldn't be surprised if Manu has practiced this type of circus shot....

[FromWayDowntown]

Here's the rule on timing at the ends of quarters, in the NBA at least:

RULE NO. 5—SCORING AND TIMING

* * * *

Section III—End of Period
a. Each period ends when time expires.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket, the period ends when the goal is made,
missed or touched by an offensive player.
(2) If the official’s whistle sounds prior to the horn or :00.0 on the clock, the period
is not over and time must be added to the clock.
(3) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket when the horn sounds ending a period,
and it subsequently is touched by: (a) a defensive player, the goal, if successful,
shall count; or (b) an offensive player, the period has ended.
(4) If a timeout request is made at approximately the instant time expires for a
period, the period ends and the timeout shall not be granted.
(5) If there is a foul called on or by a player in the act of shooting the period will end
after the foul is penalized. (See Rule 13—II—b[2]).

I'd think the bounce would mean that the shot had been "missed," which would end the period. (Rule 5 --III--a(1)).

[Phenomanul]

Does contact with the court define when a ball is dead/alive? If I'm asking it's because I've always thought it was after contact with a player....

[sandman]

The ball is in play, less than a second is left on the clock (in a quarter or the game), a player then hurls a half court shot (time runs down while ball is in the air) but the ball bounces on the court and into the hoop - does the shot count?

Furthermore, if the ball bounced inside the three point line does it count as a two or as a three?






This happened at my nephew's basketball game (8' rims).... the refs were stunned, perplexed, huddled for about a minute and awarded a two point basket to my nephew's team. They won by 8 points so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.

Section III—End of Period
a. Each period ends when time expires.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket, the period ends when the goal is made, missed or touched by an offensive player.

Section XI—Field Goal Attempt
A field goal attempt is a player’s attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal. The act of shooting starts when, in the official’s judgment, the player has started his shooting motion and continues until the shooting motion ceases and he returns to a normal floor position.

The term is also used to include the flight of the ball until it becomes dead or is touched by a player. A tap during a jump ball or rebound is not considered a field goal attempt. However, anytime a live ball is in flight toward the rim from the playing court, the goal, if made, shall count, even if time expires or the official’s whistle sounds.

Twice the NBA rulebook specifies "flight towards the rim".

I would take the bet that a bounce makes it a dead ball from an FGA perspective.

[Phenomanul]

Here's the rule on timing at the ends of quarters, in the NBA at least:

RULE NO. 5—SCORING AND TIMING

* * * *

Section III—End of Period
a. Each period ends when time expires.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket, the period ends when the goal is made,
missed or touched by an offensive player.
(2) If the official’s whistle sounds prior to the horn or :00.0 on the clock, the period
is not over and time must be added to the clock.
(3) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket when the horn sounds ending a period,
and it subsequently is touched by: (a) a defensive player, the goal, if successful,
shall count; or (b) an offensive player, the period has ended.
(4) If a timeout request is made at approximately the instant time expires for a
period, the period ends and the timeout shall not be granted.
(5) If there is a foul called on or by a player in the act of shooting the period will end
after the foul is penalized. (See Rule 13—II—b[2]).

I'd think the bounce would mean that the shot had been "missed," which would end the period. (Rule 5 --III--a(1)).

So then it opens up a semantical definition on the verb 'missed'... Can a shot be missed even if it goes in?

[FromWayDowntown]

Does contact with the court define when a ball is dead/alive? If I'm asking it's because I've always thought it was after contact with a player....

The shot being missed, in end-of-period situations defines the ball as dead/alive. I'd think that a ball that bounces short of the basket would be defined as a dead ball in that scenario.

[Phenomanul]

Section III—End of Period
a. Each period ends when time expires.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket, the period ends when the goal is made, missed or touched by an offensive player.

Section XI—Field Goal Attempt
A field goal attempt is a player’s attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal. The act of shooting starts when, in the official’s judgment, the player has started his shooting motion and continues until the shooting motion ceases and he returns to a normal floor position.

The term is also used to include the flight of the ball until it becomes dead or is touched by a player. A tap during a jump ball or rebound is not considered a field goal attempt. However, anytime a live ball is in flight toward the rim from the playing court, the goal, if made, shall count, even if time expires or the official’s whistle sounds.

Twice the NBA rulebook specifies "flight towards the rim".

I would take the bet that a bounce makes it a dead ball from an FGA perspective.

It is a shot toward the rim... one that falls short but has enough zip to go again :lol

[Phenomanul]

Thanks for the help....

Among having to fathom Tim's Trey... this little bugger of a rule had me thinking all weekend.

[ancestron]

If the inbound passer bounced the ball on the court for the inbound and managed to make it through the basket at the other end with no one touching the ball, like some Harlem Globetotter shit, no time should come off the clock because the clock starts when an offensive player touches the ball. It would be funny to see someone attempt that.

[Brutalis]

Section III—End of Period
a. Each period ends when time expires.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) If a live ball is in flight toward the basket, the period ends when the goal is made, missed or touched by an offensive player.

Section XI—Field Goal Attempt
A field goal attempt is a player’s attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal. The act of shooting starts when, in the official’s judgment, the player has started his shooting motion and continues until the shooting motion ceases and he returns to a normal floor position.

The term is also used to include the flight of the ball until it becomes dead or is touched by a player. A tap during a jump ball or rebound is not considered a field goal attempt. However, anytime a live ball is in flight toward the rim from the playing court, the goal, if made, shall count, even if time expires or the official’s whistle sounds.

Twice the NBA rulebook specifies "flight towards the rim".

I would take the bet that a bounce makes it a dead ball from an FGA perspective.

I think if this happened it should count. Exactly why not other than a rule saying so? If it was attempted and made given the player released it in time, and it touched no player or out of bounds or anything but the court in play, it should count. I like this rule although we'll never see it.

[sandman]

It is a shot toward the rim... one that falls short but has enough zip to go again :lol

I hear you!

I think that at the NBA level, it would not be a FGA because the flight from the player's hand would no longer be at the basket, but at the floor then the basket.

However, in local Y games, you just GOTTA give the kid the bucket simply for being able to make the shot.

[Brutalis]

If the inbound passer bounced the ball on the court for the inbound and managed to make it through the basket at the other end with no one touching the ball, like some Harlem Globetotter shit, no time should come off the clock because the clock starts when an offensive player touches the ball. It would be funny to see someone attempt that.

yeah but it wouldnt count, ive seen bloopers of the 90s where that happened a couple times.

[Phenomanul]

Leave it to the Spurs (specifically Manu) to challenge such a rule...

[ancestron]

it doesnt count? I guess since no offensive player touched the ball the play never actually started. Thats weak. I think if someone can pull that shot off it should count, but the rule makes sense I guess.

[sandman]

If the inbound passer bounced the ball on the court for the inbound and managed to make it through the basket at the other end with no one touching the ball, like some Harlem Globetotter shit, no time should come off the clock because the clock starts when an offensive player touches the ball. It would be funny to see someone attempt that.

Couldn't happen from a scoring perspective. A FGA must be attempted by a player whose last position before attempting the shot was in bounds.

[Phenomanul]

I hear you!

I think that at the NBA level, it would not be a FGA because the flight from the player's hand would no longer be at the basket, but at the floor then the basket.

However, in local Y games, you just GOTTA give the kid the bucket simply for being able to make the shot.

Yeah... we all collectively gasped because we knew the ball was thrown way too high and not far enough (underhanded granny throw)... and then the place erupted in amazment... all the kids stormed the court and jumped on the shooter... :lol

[Brutalis]

it doesnt count? I guess since no offensive player touched the ball the play never actually started. Thats weak. I think if someone can pull that shot off it should count, but the rule makes sense I guess.

yeah the whole point to why to 'take it out' in basketball is to.. inbound it first. stupid rule i know, wacky nba ... i dont see why we can just run onto the court like the knicks do and say screw the inbound we 2 cool for dis right hur

[TampaDude]

I think if this happened it should count. Exactly why not other than a rule saying so? If it was attempted and made given the player released it in time, and it touched no player or out of bounds or anything but the court in play, it should count. I like this rule although we'll never see it.

Yup...the ball would still be inbounds, and thus live, if it hits the floor and bounces in for a score without being touched by an offensive player. The shot would count, IMHO.

[Cry Havoc]

Yup...the ball would still be inbounds, and thus live, if it hits the floor and bounces in for a score without being touched by an offensive player. The shot would count, IMHO.

I agree. The ball is still in play even with no time on the clock, IF there is no possession, as far as I know.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This came up at a game before the one I was set to ref (YMCA ball). Ball was ruled dead once it hit the court. They had to consult the supervisor of officials, he said if it had bounced prior to the clock reading 0.0 then it would have counted, but it is considered dead if it hits the ground after the clock reaches 0.0.