Are the Suns missing Marion?

[DarrinS]

I don't know about you guys, but I think the Suns were a better team before this whole Shaq deal went down. They used to get a ton of fast break points and 3's. Last night, they're 4-13 on 3's and I don't think they had many fast break points (4, maybe).

And at least Marion helped slow down Parker.


What do you think?

[sa_butta]

I don't know about you guys, but I think the Suns were a better team before this whole Shaq deal went down. They used to get a ton of fast break points and 3's. Last night, they're 4-13 on 3's and I don't think they had many fast break points (4, maybe).

And at least Marion helped slow down Parker.


What do you think?
Might have a point here, but you look at the flip side of that and Parker and Ginobili get more penetration. And if you are wondering what would happen please see 2007 Spurs Suns Playoff series. The running Suns never got over the hump, the defense wasnt there, and even in a track meet the Spurs prevailed.

[Mr. Body]

Shaq is playing very well this series. They're not in it without him. Against the Spurs, at least, he's at least as important as Marion.

[xtremesteven33]

If Marion was still there they probably wouldve won game 1....Marion could guard parker and Ginobili....shoot 3's, dunk, layup, defend...what was Kerr thinking??

[L.I.T]

If Marion was still there they probably wouldve won game 1....Marion could guard parker and Ginobili....shoot 3's, dunk, layup, defend...what was Kerr thinking??

Unfortunately for the Suns, he never quite did the first three against the Spurs.

They were never going to get over the hump with Marion.

[GSH]

No. This is the best Suns team ever. And the Suns are a better team than the Spurs. (Just ask their fans and their coach.) This obviously isn't a personnel problem.

[mbass]

No. This is the best Suns team ever. And the Suns are a better team than the Spurs. (Just ask their fans and their coach.) This obviously isn't a personnel problem.

They should have kept Thomas and Marion.

[GSH]

They should have kept Thomas and Marion.

They had a choice. Stand pat and get beaten by the Spurs. Make a big trade and get beaten by the Spurs. I guess standing pat would have been less effort.

[Supergirl]

well, they gave up the only player who could defend Parker/Manu at all for having a true C in the paint. if the Suns bounce out of the playoffs this year -which we're all hoping they do - that gamble will be considered a massive failure.

[NASHville]

The Suns are missing the mental attitude that it takes to be an NBA championship team. Where is it? I sure didn't see it in the eyes of a player with multiple championship rings. Yeah, Shaq! I mean you!! Where is the fire in Nash's eyes he had after getting his nose smashed last year? WHERE IS IT!?!? :mad
I sure hope the Suns wake up back in Phoenix of Friday because if they don't they are going to be in for a very rude awakening.
If the Suns can witn both at home they can take it if they split I fear it may be over. Call it like it is.

[peskypesky]

hard to say. they seem to be doing about the same with shaq. (i.e. they're losing)

[Elraptor]

Yea they've slowed down.

Marion was such a great player for them and had a huge impact.

[ancestron]

Marion sucks

[PHXSpursFan]

I think the Suns would be the best if Tardemire was traded for Shaq, instead of Marion.

[Streakyshooter08]

I don't think so. I could imagine that they would have been better with Thomas AND Marion. But they started with Thomas gone to Seattle and after the Gasol trade they HAD to do something to get bigger. I think their interior defense improved a bit with him in there. Not to mention that Marion was a cancer. I think they are a better basketball team with Shaq.

[ducks]

they miss his d
they miss him more since hill is hurt
last game oneal helped amare stay out of foul trouble

[Mr. Body]

Marion was rarely good against the Spurs.

They should have resigned Joe Johnson, dumped Marion earlier.

[ducks]

marion was good on d but not on o because bowen shut his ass down


with marion bowen could never guard nash much

[WildcardManu]

It's mostly the coaching, Pop > Mike D

[romain.star]

i think people don't realize how great the Spurs are playing right now. With or without Marion, it would be 2 - 0 for us.

[themvp]

Let's wait till it's over and then we will see what was that trade about.

[Budkin]

Marion was the Suns best defensive player so it obviously hurts them there.

Edit: Ok I just remembered Raja Bell but he doesn't have the length that the Matrix did.

[roycrikside]

Marion can't score in the halfcourt. He can't dribble by anybody or hit an open 18 footer. His whole game is putbacks, transition points and three pointers off kickouts. The three things the Spurs defense prides itself on are defensive rebounding, getting back in transition, and closing out on three point shooters. We shut Marion down every year without having to change a damn thing to the game plan.

Plus if they still have Marion and no Shaq, then that means Amare has to guard Timmy full time, and that means Duncan scores like 35+ every game and Stoudemire plays like 30 mins a night because of foul trouble.

The Spurs have already proven the old Suns roster couldn't beat them. Now they're showing this version can't either. This one scares me more though. They get a lot of points in the paint now and that's how good teams win.

[stretch]

yes, they are missing marion. they are a running team, and Marion is one of the best running wing players in the league. Shaq is fat, slow, and lazy and does not help them at all.

[mardigan]

Marion was such a great player for them and had a huge impact.

Not against the Spurs in the playoffs. I dont know how anyone could think that Marion helped more than Shaq. Marion was a disappearing act any time the Suns played the Spurs in the playoffs. They are missing a healthy Grant Hill right now above all else. Suns with Shaq are a better team. If they had a good coach, they could be up 2-0 right now.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Marion was great at running the break. The problem is that the Spurs transition D could slow the pace down and he'd become just another shooter floating around the 3 pt line. I said that this trade would make the Suns better but not get them over the hump and so far it looks like I might have been right for once. If Marion is there this series is still 2-0, only Tim would be scoring more instead of the guards, or the 3 pt shooters would be bombing away. I think having someone who has a prayer of guarding Tim 1 on 1 balances out the equation.

[Shaolin-Style]

I don't recall Marion hardly ever doing well against us.

Infact I remember him doing pretty damn bad in one series.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He would help them on defense as he could guard Parker or Manu.

Offensively, I think he was averaging something pathetic like 6 PPG against the Spurs in the playoffs in all the times we met.

[Whisky Dog]

I don't think you can say which version of the team was better because they've completely changed styles. This matchup used to be a clash of styles with the team who was able to impose their will being the victor. That happened to be the Spurs more times than not. Now, the Spurs and Suns play basically the same style, except that the Spurs are now the better fast break team and both are pretty equal in the half court.

Of course the Suns miss Marion and the versatility that he afforded them on defense, but the truth is that they weren't a good defensive team with him anyway. The somewhat surprise is now that they have swapped Shaq for Marion, they still aren't a good defensive team. They have had to play basically flawless offensive basketball in two first halves just to maintain a small lead, and when they couldn't keep the near perfection going (as no one can) they fell behind and lost.

My theory is that all of this falls on the head coach, and to an extent the star PG. The coach's offensive mind is great, but like his star PG he is one dimensional. The coach doesn't have the chops to coach great team defense, and team defense is what is needed to slow down a back court like the Spurs have that is constantly attacking you. The Suns are very slow on rotations a lot (if they rotate at all), and although their one on one defense is pretty good at many positions they aren't able to handle the multiple pick and rolls and back screens that require team defensive execution to handle. The reason I think it's also on the PG is because he is a complete defensive liability. His inability or unwillingness to perform defensively causes a huge void right at the point of attack of the other team's offense. I can't think of a championship team in recent memory that had a complete defensive liability at the PG position.

[Lackluster]

marion was always iffy against the spurs in the playoffs, but you could hardly write him off as a non-factor no matter how many bad games he had against us.

without him the suns have to rely on feeding the ball to the 2 big guys in the middle. they've lost just about all of their perimeter game on both ends of the court. bell can knock down the open three, but nothing like the matrix. nash has had to create on the outside a lot more to fill the marion gap as well.

shaq seems to have improved the interior defense and rebounding, but he's a one on one defender these days. not a threatening post presence like i think phx was hoping he would be.

[ducks]

marion was shut down by bowen but bowen shutsd down all star players most of the time

[Spurminator]

Ask me when the series is over.

[The Truth #6]

The revisionist love for Marion is basically retarded. The guy sucked against the Spurs. He totally vanished. By not being slow and 360 pounds, yes, he allowed them to be more of a running team. If he was still on the team now we'd have much less problem with them. He would still be vanishing but as an added bonus he would be whining in the locker room, possibly even drowning out the drone of the coach.

[ducks]

bowen would own marion again but tp and bowen would not be able to tag team nash and wear nash out!

[bdictjames]

Suns could have pulled out a run there in the fourth if Marion was playing.

[Spider TX]

I don't know about you guys, but I think the Suns were a better team before this whole Shaq deal went down. They used to get a ton of fast break points and 3's. Last night, they're 4-13 on 3's and I don't think they had many fast break points (4, maybe).

And at least Marion helped slow down Parker.


What do you think?

No way do I think they are missing Marion, at least for sure not in this series. If the Suns somehow pull this series off, then I absolutely think they will be missing him against a team like the Hornets, but Marion had a tendency to disappear in postseason series', and him being there would have changed nothing in these first 2 games. Finley still would have had the chance to hit the clutch 3, Marion wouldn't have changed Duncan's 3 at all.

The Suns have gotten out to a very good lead in both games, something rarely done on the Spurs, but it has been the Spurs amazing ability to step up on defense, as usual, and their clutch play late in games that have been the difference in this series. Suns just cannot close right now, and D'Antoni is an idiot, always goes away from what works.

[MajicMan]

It's mostly the coaching, Pop > Mike D

We have a winner. MD played right into Pop's hands in game one by taking Shaq out of the game when they were employing the hack a Shaq.

[DAINTX]

Absolutely yes! Marion is a decent defender. Given the Suns almost non-existant defensive capabilities, they miss him. Nash can't guard anyone. Whenever they double Tim, and the 1st game showed them they have to at least some of the time, Parker and/or Ginobli will continually penetrate the paint because the Suns do not have enough defense to keep both under control. They try to be physical with Tony and Manu, but as we know, neither will back down. Further, because they cannot hold the paint from Tim/Tony/Manu, eventually the outside jump shooters will start to kill them. So the Suns are truly in a "pick your poison" situation.

[timvp]

No the Suns don't miss Marion. Marion is one of the most overrated players of this generation. He rarely ever did anything against the Spurs and his whiny personality hurt their chemistry.

The Spurs are just playing really well right now. Duncan was amazing in Game 1. Parker was good against them last year but he's been even better this year. Last year Ginobili was pretty damn bad in the first two games of the series. This year he has been very, very good.

If these Spurs would have played last year's Suns, the Spurs would have blown them out in both games.

[Sec24Row7]

Marion did JACK in the playoffs vs the Spurs.

He will now do JACK for the rest of his career since he can't create his own shot and D-Wade is more of a shoot first guard than Nash.