Is the race really over?

[smeagol]

Yesterday night I heard Hillary raised $10MM in 24 hs. After Tuesday's victory, Hillary appears to be much more confident and Obama is not looking that good.

Is the race really over, the way boutons, dan and others keep shouting out loud on every thread they post in?

[boutons_]

Nothing much has changed. Hillary is still significantly behind numerically.

She, Bill, and her team will spin her first victory in a long time to be tide turning. They have to, because the tide has been all Obama for months.

Obama leads polls in IND they way Hillary was leading polls in PA. Good chance she will lose all remaining primaries, exposing the tide-turning lie.

btw, fwiw, exit polls showed PA people who voted Hillary trusted Obama more by a huge margin. :lol

Hillary will stay Rove-ian low-road and go even lower now that time is running out. She will be very nasty, dishonest, swift-boating, and drag Obama into the Clinton toilet. But she will still lose the nomination.

[clambake]

she's working for mccain now, but she won't admit it.

[JoeChalupa]

It will be over soon but not yet.....not yet.

[101A]

she's working for mccain now, but she won't admit it.

Gonna make her a cabinet member or running mate?

[clambake]

Gonna make her a cabinet member or running mate?

nah, she's gonna destroy the party for him.

[florige]

Nothing much has changed. Hillary is still significantly behind numerically.

She, Bill, and her team will spin her first victory in a long time to be tide turning. They have to, because the tide has been all Obama for months.

Obama leads polls in IND they way Hillary was leading polls in PA. Good chance she will lose all remaining primaries, exposing the tide-turning lie.

btw, fwiw, exit polls showed PA people who voted Hillary trusted Obama more by a huge margin. :lol

Hillary will stay Rove-ian low-road and go even lower now that time is running out. She will be very nasty, dishonest, swift-boating, and drag Obama into the Clinton toilet. But she will still lose the nomination.



It's a shame that no matter who comes out of this debacle, neither one of them will probably not have a shot come the General.

[101A]

nah, she's gonna destroy the party for him.

To what end?

I think she still has a shot at the nomination.

[clambake]

To what end?

I think she still has a shot at the nomination.

sure, but her tactics are soaked in swill. the shine has faded off of this pig.

[George Gervin's Afro]

sure, but her tactics are soaked in swill. the shine has faded off of this pig.

what tactics specifically? are these tactics exclusive to themselves? or do other candidates get away with the same tactics but since they are the clintons they are held to different standards?

[Heath Ledger]

Hillary is gonna use the popular vote spin and how she has won every state with a large population.

[clambake]

clinton would have been expected to be unforthunately drawn into the sty, as opposed to creating it.

[Heath Ledger]

She won the Texas primary.

[MannyIsGod]

Its over Smeagol. I still challenge someone to come up with a conceivable way she'd win the nomination short of an enormous scandal.

Go on, find me one and get back to me. Anyone.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh and of course the news networks aren't saying its over. They want to milk the ratings as long as they can.

And trust me, none of this is going to hurt Obama in the general. The vast majority of the country isn't paying attention right now. Nothing really matters until late August/September. I stopped watching coverage because its so pointless right now.

[JoeChalupa]

Its over Smeagol. I still challenge someone to come up with a conceivable way she'd win the nomination short of an enormous scandal.

Go on, find me one and get back to me. Anyone.

The super delegates can still give the nomination to Hillary. Will it create a scandal? Sure it can. But she still does have a very conceivable way of "getting" the nomination.
She is going to continue to push the theory that Obama simply cannot win the general election because as much as many people will not admit there are many who will not vote for a Black candidate.
Have you seen some of the attack ads the far-right of the republican party are going to unleash against Obama?

I'm watching to see how it all unfolds. But I'm a political junkie. :)

[Don Quixote]

It's not even close to over. If Hillary were playing under Republican rules (the popular vote winner gets the delegates, period), she'd have already won, due to her victories in Ohio, Texas, New Yawk, California, and now Pennsylvania.

But she's playing under Democrat rules, which means there's no clear winner. She'll likely carry Indiana, and Barack has a good chance of landing NC. But this thing is going to the convention, and, if I were to bet, I would bet on the superdelegates giving the nod to the more electable candidate, which is Hillary.

But the party is in some serious doo-doo either way right now. If Hillary steals the bid, Obama's supporters are going to be really upset that the Messiah is not on the ticket. Obama's supporters view Hillary as a representative of the "politics of old," and "against change." (And they're right!) So perhaps some of them stay home.

On the other hand, if Barack gets the nomination, I wonder how many middle-America, church-going, patriotic, gun-owning Democrats will vote for him. I see quite a few of them defecting to McCain, at least enough to influence the outcome in the general.

Conclusion: We can only pray for the good people of Denver when that convention comes, because we know what happens when radical liberals get angry. One group will be leaving very very angry.

[clambake]

if you're suggesting that the "Messiah" is the most intelligent candidate from any side, then we agree.

[JoeChalupa]

It's not even close to over. If Hillary were playing under Republican rules (the popular vote winner gets the delegates, period), she'd have already won, due to her victories in Ohio, Texas, New Yawk, California, and now Pennsylvania.

But she's playing under Democrat rules, which means there's no clear winner. She'll likely carry Indiana, and Barack has a good chance of landing NC. But this thing is going to the convention, and, if I were to bet, I would bet on the superdelegates giving the nod to the more electable candidate, which is Hillary.

But the party is in some serious doo-doo either way right now. If Hillary steals the bid, Obama's supporters are going to be really upset that the Messiah is not on the ticket. Obama's supporters view Hillary as a representative of the "politics of old," and "against change." (And they're right!) So perhaps some of them stay home.

On the other hand, if Barack gets the nomination, I wonder how many middle-America, church-going, patriotic, gun-owning Democrats will vote for him. I see quite a few of them defecting to McCain, at least enough to influence the outcome in the general.

Conclusion: We can only pray for the good people of Denver when that convention comes, because we know what happens when radical liberals get angry. One group will be leaving very very angry.

I pretty much agree except for the wise cracks.

[xrayzebra]

It's not even close to over. If Hillary were playing under Republican rules (the popular vote winner gets the delegates, period), she'd have already won, due to her victories in Ohio, Texas, New Yawk, California, and now Pennsylvania.

But she's playing under Democrat rules, which means there's no clear winner. She'll likely carry Indiana, and Barack has a good chance of landing NC. But this thing is going to the convention, and, if I were to bet, I would bet on the superdelegates giving the nod to the more electable candidate, which is Hillary.

But the party is in some serious doo-doo either way right now. If Hillary steals the bid, Obama's supporters are going to be really upset that the Messiah is not on the ticket. Obama's supporters view Hillary as a representative of the "politics of old," and "against change." (And they're right!) So perhaps some of them stay home.

On the other hand, if Barack gets the nomination, I wonder how many middle-America, church-going, patriotic, gun-owning Democrats will vote for him. I see quite a few of them defecting to McCain, at least enough to influence the outcome in the general.

Conclusion: We can only pray for the good people of Denver when that convention comes, because we know what happens when radical liberals get angry. One group will be leaving very very angry.

Don, my boy, the dimms have a real dilemma on their
hands. Do they make the "girls" mad or the "blacks"
mad. Both Hillary and Hussein, oops, Obama have a
valid argument when it comes to minorities. Now
they are going to have to decide who can win the big
states. That is the states with the largest number of
electorial votes. When you go through all the states
that have primaries you will find that Clinton leads
Obama 213 to 166. That is substantial. You can see
what the "supers" have to try and figure out. Who
can actually carry those states in the General Election.
I would bet they go with Clinton. But that is my
opinion only.

[DarkReign]

Nothing really matters until late August/September. I stopped watching coverage because its so pointless right now.

Same. Its the reason I havent posted here in some time. I will after the Dem Convention.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not even close to over. If Hillary were playing under Republican rules (the popular vote winner gets the delegates, period), she'd have already won, due to her victories in Ohio, Texas, New Yawk, California, and now Pennsylvania.

But she's playing under Democrat rules, which means there's no clear winner. She'll likely carry Indiana, and Barack has a good chance of landing NC. But this thing is going to the convention, and, if I were to bet, I would bet on the superdelegates giving the nod to the more electable candidate, which is Hillary.

But the party is in some serious doo-doo either way right now. If Hillary steals the bid, Obama's supporters are going to be really upset that the Messiah is not on the ticket. Obama's supporters view Hillary as a representative of the "politics of old," and "against change." (And they're right!) So perhaps some of them stay home.

On the other hand, if Barack gets the nomination, I wonder how many middle-America, church-going, patriotic, gun-owning Democrats will vote for him. I see quite a few of them defecting to McCain, at least enough to influence the outcome in the general.

Conclusion: We can only pray for the good people of Denver when that convention comes, because we know what happens when radical liberals get angry. One group will be leaving very very angry.

This post is so out of touch with reality.

Do you guys not realize that since Super Tuesday Barak has completely out gained Clinton in Super Delegates? In fact I believe she's still negative since that day.

I keep here all this blah blah blah about super delegates but its like you're ignore whats going on. Almost every single day you hear about a SD who throws his hat in for Obama. I'm not even exagerating here, he's gaining about 1 SD a day. The lead she had in super delegates has shrunk to 23! At the rate Obama is gaining them he'll have that eliminated before the end of May.


There are less than 300 super delegates left to declare. She's somehow going to get half of those when she's been in the negative since Super Tuesday? Yeah, not going to happen.

Anyone who doesn't see that this race is over simply isn't paying attention to the delegate math. Feel free to contradict what I say using plausible ways she could gain delegates and spell out how many Supers she'd need if you want. Prove me wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

The super delegates can still give the nomination to Hillary. Will it create a scandal? Sure it can. But she still does have a very conceivable way of "getting" the nomination.
She is going to continue to push the theory that Obama simply cannot win the general election because as much as many people will not admit there are many who will not vote for a Black candidate.
Have you seen some of the attack ads the far-right of the republican party are going to unleash against Obama?

I'm watching to see how it all unfolds. But I'm a political junkie. :)

So after months and months of a net loss in super delegates she's going to gain them at over a 2:1 rate? Yeah, ok?

If they're going to give it to her, why do they keep declaring for Obama?

[smeagol]

Democrats deserve to lose the general election.

It is freaking unbelievable.

[MannyIsGod]

Here's a graph of what Hillary's SD lead looked like in February. Notice how its over 60? Its under 25 now!!!

http://bp2.blogger.com/_qJGvnOCBQcA/R7-K3jGXneI/AAAAAAAAAE8/zfzAHT3q5zw/s1600/image001.gif

[MannyIsGod]

Democrats deserve to lose the general election.

It is freaking unbelievable.

Why?

[smeagol]

Don, my boy, the dimms have a real dilemma on their
hands. Do they make the "girls" mad or the "blacks"
mad. Both Hillary and Hussein, oops, Obama have a
valid argument when it comes to minorities. Now
they are going to have to decide who can win the big
states. That is the states with the largest number of
electorial votes. When you go through all the states
that have primaries you will find that Clinton leads
Obama 213 to 166. That is substantial. You can see
what the "supers" have to try and figure out. Who
can actually carry those states in the General Election.
I would bet they go with Clinton. But that is my
opinion only.

This Hussein crap is so stupid ray.

Grow the fuck up, old dude.

[MannyIsGod]

http://bp0.blogger.com/_qJGvnOCBQcA/SAv3xx_oKHI/AAAAAAAAAOA/rJNo1pD7t-E/s1600/image001.gif

There's a more up to date graph.

[MannyIsGod]

I was wrong about about her being negative since Super Tuesday. It would appear that she's gained SD's with Obama at almost a 1:1 ratio in mid April. Still not nearly enough for her. She can't trade them evenly with him, she needs to win them at over a 2:1 ratio in order to have a shot. And thats not going to happen because Obama is going to destroy her in North Carolina (and grow his pledged delegate lead while doing that too).

[MannyIsGod]

Let me break it down to you like this, If Clinton wins EVERY SINGLE ELECTION from here on out by a 60:40 margin - she'd be behind by 70 pledged delegates.

At that point, she'd need 222 of the remaining 304 Super Delegates to win.

#1 - There's no way in hell she's winning 1 election from here on out by that margin much less all. She's going to lose some of those elections.

#2 - No way in hell she's getting 222 of the remaining 304 SDs when at the climax of her campain she's struggling to maintain a 1:1 ratio.


http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/


Go do the math yourself. I don't make these things up.

[JoeChalupa]

This post is so out of touch with reality.

Do you guys not realize that since Super Tuesday Barak has completely out gained Clinton in Super Delegates? In fact I believe she's still negative since that day.

I keep here all this blah blah blah about super delegates but its like you're ignore whats going on. Almost every single day you hear about a SD who throws his hat in for Obama. I'm not even exagerating here, he's gaining about 1 SD a day. The lead she had in super delegates has shrunk to 23! At the rate Obama is gaining them he'll have that eliminated before the end of May.


There are less than 300 super delegates left to declare. She's somehow going to get half of those when she's been in the negative since Super Tuesday? Yeah, not going to happen.

Anyone who doesn't see that this race is over simply isn't paying attention to the delegate math. Feel free to contradict what I say using plausible ways she could gain delegates and spell out how many Supers she'd need if you want. Prove me wrong.

You are correct that she cannot catch Obama in the delegate count. But is is STILL conceivable that the super delegates could give her the nomination.
I'm not saying it'll happen but it COULD and that is a FACT.

But I agree that it is a long shot.

And it is a FACT that the nomination process is NOT over.

[JoeChalupa]

This Hussein crap is so stupid ray.

Grow the fuck up, old dude.

:lmao :tu

[JoeChalupa]

Let me break it down to you like this, If Clinton wins EVERY SINGLE ELECTION from here on out by a 60:40 margin - she'd be behind by 70 pledged delegates.

At that point, she'd need 222 of the remaining 304 Super Delegates to win.

#1 - There's no way in hell she's winning 1 election from here on out by that margin much less all. She's going to lose some of those elections.

#2 - No way in hell she's getting 222 of the remaining 304 SDs when at the climax of her campain she's struggling to maintain a 1:1 ratio.


http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/

But that still doesn't mean it is OVER.

I get your points and I agree with all of them. But is is officially NOT over.

Go do the math yourself. I don't make these things up.

I agree with all of this but....officially the nomination process is NOT over.

[MannyIsGod]

You are correct that she cannot catch Obama in the delegate count. But is is STILL conceivable that the super delegates could give her the nomination.
I'm not saying it'll happen but it COULD and that is a FACT.

But I agree that it is a long shot.

And it is a FACT that the nomination process is NOT over.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Its over, Joe. If you're saying its not over as a technicality well no shit but for all intents and purposes this ship has sailed and it did so a long time ago.

I just showed you how INCONCEIVABLE it was for her to get the nessecary Super Delegates in Clinton's wet dream of a scenario and there is no way that scenario plays out. When you make more realistic, she needs to win them at a nearly 4:1 clip!!! I didn't even think it was that bad till I looked at the numbers myself today.

There's a reason that everyone in the blogosphere has said this was over for over the past month. And thats because it is.

[MannyIsGod]

I agree with all of this but....officially the nomination process is NOT over.

No shit but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intent behind Smeagol's question. he wasn't asking of the nomination process was over, he was asking if Clinton had a realistic shot at winning the nomination.

She does not.

[JoeChalupa]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Its over, Joe. If you're saying its not over as a technicality well no shit but for all intents and purposes this ship has sailed and it did so a long time ago.

I just showed you how INCONCEIVABLE it was for her to get the nessecary Super Delegates in Clinton's wet dream of a scenario and there is no way that scenario plays out. When you make more realistic, she needs to win them at a nearly 4:1 clip!!! I didn't even think it was that bad till I looked at the numbers myself today.

There's a reason that everyone in the blogosphere has said this was over for over the past month. And thats because it is.

I know what conceivable means and yeah, technically it isn't over and that is the point I was making.
Like I said I know she has little or no chance of winning the nomination but if you think the Clinton's don't have other game plans you are kidding yourself. If it was just about the delegates for fHillary she would have already dropped out. I'm sure she can do the math herself too.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Yeah, I'm sure she has some super secret game plan and is just waiting to bust it out to pull out the miracle come from behind wind at the last second.

Joe, she's had game plans the entire way. Thats what a campaign is. The thing is, they're LOSING game plans or else she'd actually be ahead in the delegates. Whether or not she cares about the delegates is irrelevant. Barak is going to get them and there's pretty much nothing she can do (apparently) to stop it.

She's lost, just because she hasn't acknowledged it and just because the media hasn't held her accountable doesn't change the reality of the delegate math one bit.

[smeagol]

Why?

Because of the bickering among candidates.

Because of many Democrats (some of which post on this board) saying that they will not vote Obama if Hillary wins and vice versa.

Because some idiots liberals call Hillary, Hitlary.

Can you imagine Republicans saying that they will not vote McCain because they wanted Romney to win?

Even the most conservative Republicans will vote for McCain, even though they probably don’t agree with him on a number of issues.

But some stupid democrats (dan, GGA, peewee, etc) will not vote if “their” candidate does not win the nomination.

That amigo, is stupidity at it’s best.

[MannyIsGod]

Because of the bickering among candidates.


Bickering? Its called politics dude. No one can make Clinton drop out if she doesn't want to regardless of whether or not the race is over. I don't see how the political process being played out means the Democrats should lose. What would you have them do, force her out? That would be horrible and by far the worse option. Democrats undercutting democracy WOULD be a reason for them to lose in the fall.



Because of many Democrats (some of which post on this board) saying that they will not vote Obama if Hillary wins and vice versa.

Actions speak louder than words. Republicans say the same thing btw. Recent NYT article with polls shows this isn't true on a large scale anyway.



Because some idiots liberals call Hillary, Hitlary.


This is just ridiculous. So what?



Can you imagine Republicans saying that they will not vote McCain because they wanted Romney to win?


Uh, they did! It was huge all over republican talk radio. Did you not here when they said Hilary was more conservative? Dude, if you honestly plan to make statements like this you really should inform yourself more about the subject.


Even the most conservative Republicans will vote for McCain, even though they probably don’t agree with him on a number of issues.


Yeah? Same thing with Democrats.



But some stupid democrats (dan, GGA, peewee, etc) will not vote if “their” candidate does not win the nomination.

That amigo, is stupidity at it’s best.

You make the same incorrect point many times. Its wrong and misinformed. Not trying to be a dick, just the truth.

[peewee's lovechild]

"In Obama, there is a very real danger that the party sends to the general election another George McGovern, who ultimately was viewed as the quintessential affluent, educated, urban North-Eastern uber-liberal who failed to connect with the working class. He lost the 1972 election to Richard Nixon in a landslide, with a 23.2 percentage points margin of victory in the popular vote, the 4th largest such margin in Presidential election history. McGovern, like Obama, aroused excitement among the youth vote, and ran an effective grass-roots campaign that won him the nomination. But from there he imploded, winning just one state, Massachusetts, in the general election. Many Democrats are starting to worry that Obama, against the GOP's presumptive nominee Sen. John McCain, who is perceived as a moderate independent, may face a similar fate.

And it is precisely McGovern's debacle that gave rise to the party's superdelegate system, a supposed fail-safe against sending another weak candidate to the general election even though voters may have fallen in love with him. It's naive and a mistake to think the Super D's will merely look at the current "math" in the Obama/Clinton race. Call me crazy, but I suspect as we draw closer to the convention, these party officials are going to focus more on true electability than anything else."

[MannyIsGod]

Talking points are nice, doesn't change the delegate math though.

[peewee's lovechild]

Talking points are nice, doesn't change the delegate math though.

You call it "talking points" eventhough the Super Delegate system was put in place for this very scenario?

[smeagol]

Uh, they did! It was huge all over republican talk radio. Did you not here when they said Hilary was more conservative? Dude, if you honestly plan to make statements like this you really should inform yourself more about the subject.

Yeah? Same thing with Democrats.

You make the same incorrect point many times. Its wrong and misinformed. Not trying to be a dick, just the truth.

If you think Rush and other right wing radio hosts bashing McCain, is the same as what is going on between the two democratic camps, it is you who is misinformed.

At the end of the day, all those Republicans that don’t like McCain are going to vote for him. I can assure you of that.

On the other hand, it looks many Democrats will stay home the day of the genera election.

And that is stupid.

[xrayzebra]

This Hussein crap is so stupid ray.

Grow the fuck up, old dude.

So you too think we shouldn't use the man's name.

I was being sarcastic. It is childish for me NOT to be
able to use a person's real name. Maybe others ought
to grow up.

[Don Quixote]

I can't wait for the meltdown that's going to happen at the convention. You think liberals were mad in 2000? That will be nothing compared to this!

And Democrats are right to be worried right now. Their front-runner has been exposed as another "northeastern" (he's not actually from the NE), affluent, academic, educated, super-lib, the likes of which generally get creamed in national elections. You don't need to quote to me the math -- I know the numbers. And the numbers say that neither candidate has enough delegates to win decisively, certainly not enough for the Super-delegates to not get involved.

And if you think that the Clintons are going to let the Super-delegates just give her nomination to this upstart, you don't know the Clintons. It's not over.

And, like I said, I would prepare for the worst in Denver.

[MannyIsGod]

If you think Rush and other right wing radio hosts bashing McCain, is the same as what is going on between the two democratic camps, it is you who is misinformed.

At the end of the day, all those Republicans that don’t like McCain are going to vote for him. I can assure you of that.

On the other hand, it looks many Democrats will stay home the day of the genera election.

And that is stupid.

What are you basing that off of?


According to surveys of Pennsylvania voters leaving the polls on Tuesday, Mr. Obama would draw majorities of support from lower-income voters and less-educated ones — just as Mrs. Clinton would against Mr. McCain, even though those voters have favored her over Mr. Obama in the primaries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/us/politics/24clinton.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[xrayzebra]

I can't wait for the meltdown that's going to happen at the convention. You think liberals were mad in 2000? That will be nothing compared to this!

And Democrats are right to be worried right now. Their front-runner has been exposed as another "northeastern" (he's not actually from the NE), affluent, academic, educated, super-lib, the likes of which generally get creamed in national elections. You don't need to quote to me the math -- I know the numbers. And the numbers say that neither candidate has enough delegates to win decisively, certainly not enough for the Super-delegates to not get involved.

And if you think that the Clintons are going to let the Super-delegates just give her nomination to this upstart, you don't know the Clintons. It's not over.

And, like I said, I would prepare for the worst in Denver.


Now Don you did a no-no. You called him an elitist
Liberal. Obama doesn't like that, nor do his supporters.
They also don't like that you associate him with the
Rev. Wright. Or call him by his middle name or bring
up any of his "indiscretions".....no.no.no.no. you mustn't
do that. He is a man of change. He is a man of hope.
He is a phony. He is a liar. He is a socialist to the nth
degree. And he cant stand the heat.

[smeagol]

So you too think we shouldn't use the man's name.

I was being sarcastic. It is childish for me NOT to be
able to use a person's real name. Maybe others ought
to grow up.

This from the gys who call democrats, dimm-o-craps . . .

How old are you again, ray?

[MannyIsGod]

You call it "talking points" eventhough the Super Delegate system was put in place for this very scenario?

Uh, what does the intentions of those who put the Super Delegate system into place have to do with you posting a talking point for the Clinton Camp?

The intentions are irrelevant at this point considering that the Super Delegate system is in place and working right now. Clinton simply isn't getting enough of them to win.

There is no magical Super Delegate day where they all delcare; they declare a little at a time on almost a daily basis and as you can see by the math I've posted in this thread Clinton needs to up her April gains by about 400% in order to have a shot at the nomination.

At the climax of her campaign she's not even coming close to that and its pretty much downhill from this point on. There is no state nearly as monumental as PA left and she's going to lose ground in both Super Delegate totals and Pledged delegate totals from here on out - Especially after and during the NC primary.


She just can't get enough delegates - pledged OR super - to win. No amount of posted talking points is going to change that.

[smeagol]

What are you basing that off of?[/url]

There was a quote a couple of weeks ago where it said approximately 20% of Obama supporters would not vot for Hillary and vice versa.

I'm sure GGA remembers the thread.

[MannyIsGod]

To think that the Democrats would stay home on election day after record shattering primary turnouts is pretty out there smeagol.

[MannyIsGod]

There was a quote a couple of weeks ago where it said approximately 20% of Obama supporters would not vot for Hillary and vice versa.

I'm sure GGA remembers the thread.

Well I just posted one that shows the opposite. Which is right?

[xrayzebra]

This from the gys who call democrats, dimm-o-craps . . .

How old are you again, ray?

Old enough to know what his name is and have the
ability and right to use it. How old are you and why
haven't I got that right. Because you think it is wrong.
Typical liberal view. You think I am wrong so therefore
I am.:nope

[smeagol]

Uh, what does the intentions of those who put the Super Delegate system into place have to do with you posting a talking point for the Clinton Camp?

The intentions are irrelevant at this point considering that the Super Delegate system is in place and working right now. Clinton simply isn't getting enough of them to win.

There is no magical Super Delegate day where they all delcare; they declare a little at a time on almost a daily basis and as you can see by the math I've posted in this thread Clinton needs to up her April gains by about 400% in order to have a shot at the nomination.

At the climax of her campaign she's not even coming close to that and its pretty much downhill from this point on. There is no state nearly as monumental as PA left and she's going to lose ground in both Super Delegate totals and Pledged delegate totals from here on out - Especially after and during the NC primary.


She just can't get enough delegates - pledged OR super - to win. No amount of posted talking points is going to change that.

Peewee is one of the Hillary supporters which will not vote for Obama.

That is why he is posting what he is posting.

[smeagol]

Well I just posted one that shows the opposite. Which is right?


I guess we will have to wait until November.

Nevertheless, you can take back that shit about me being disinformed (misinformed).

[xrayzebra]

I guess we will have to wait until November.

Nevertheless, you can take back that shit about me being disinformed.

Is "disinformed" a word?:lol

[smeagol]

Old enough to know what his name is and have the
ability and right to use it. How old are you and why
haven't I got that right. Because you think it is wrong.
Typical liberal view. You think I am wrong so therefore
I am.:nope

You accuse me of being a liberal and boutons and pimpo accuse me of being a conservative :rolleyes

In any case, if you don't see how it is childlish calling somebody by his middle name (and not mentioning his first and his last name) simply because it happens to coincide with the name of the former Iraqi president, a country that the US has gone to war with . . . well . . . there is not much I can do.

How's that camapaign against the dimm-o-craps going? :lol

[smeagol]

Is "disinformed" as word?:lol

Yes.

It's when you are more than misinformed :toast

[MannyIsGod]

I guess we will have to wait until November.

Nevertheless, you can take back that shit about me being disinformed.

Yeah, I'll take that back when you stop saying Democrats should lose based on the posts of a non democrat like PeeWee. You've been saying this for some time and I'm not sure what you're basing it off of other than the posters you keep referencing Spurstalk political posters.

Smeagol, regardless of what NBADan may say this forum is not a good outlet for objective US political coverage.

[xrayzebra]

You accuse me of being a liberal and boutons and pimpo accuse me of being a conservative :rolleyes

In any case, if you don't see how it is childlish calling somebody by his middle name (and not mentioning his first and his last name) simply because it happens to coincide with the name of the former Iraqi president, a country that the US has gone to war with . . . well . . . there is not much I can do.

How's that camapaign against the dimm-o-craps going? :lol

Reading my mind are you. Now you know what I was
thinking. Well you are wrong my friend. Never really
entered my mind. I was just being sarcastic like I said,
because it makes the Obama supports mad when it is
used. Even though it is his name.

Oh, one think I forgot about that is off limits. His big
ears. Cant forget that. He brought it up himself that he
didn't like it.

And "disinformed" is not a word according to M-W
dictionary. Now "disinformation" is.

[MannyIsGod]

And if you think that the Clintons are going to let the Super-delegates just give her nomination to this upstart, you don't know the Clintons. It's not over.


I LOVE this argument from people. The Clintons aren't done! They still have tricks up their sleaves! They're the Clintons!

They've been the Clintons this whole time. They've been using their tricks this whole time.

And they're losing.

[xrayzebra]

I LOVE this argument from people. The Clintons aren't done! They still have tricks up their sleaves! They're the Clintons!

They've been the Clintons this whole time. They've been using their tricks this whole time.

And they're losing.

Manny, I am telling you she isn't. She is taking the
states that count. And don't think the super's wont
see that. Obama has taken a lot states that just don't
count.

[smeagol]

Yeah, I'll take that back when you stop saying Democrats should lose based on the posts of a non democrat like PeeWee. You've been saying this for some time and I'm not sure what you're basing it off of other than the posters you keep referencing Spurstalk political posters.

Smeagol, regardless of what NBADan may say this forum is not a good outlet for objective US political coverage.

I'm not only basing it on what happens in the political forum (and peewee is not the only liberal who has said it).

As I said before, there was a link posted some time ago that has said so.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, I am telling you she isn't. She is taking the
states that count. And don't think the super's wont
see that. Obama has taken a lot states that just don't
count.

The only thing that counts is the delegate count. Obama's winning that. There is no provision for if you win "x" amount of "BIG IMPORTANT STATES" and you win the nomination.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not only basing it on what happens in the political forum (and peewee is not the only liberal who has said it).

As I said before, there was a link posted some time ago that has said so.

Well you didn't cite anything outside the forums man. You cited what certain posters here have said and you're citing a link that may or may not exsist on these forums.

How am I supposed to think you're basing your opinion on the matter off something other than what you use to back it up?

[xrayzebra]

The only thing that counts is the delegate count. Obama's winning that. There is no provision for if you win "x" amount of "BIG IMPORTANT STATES" and you win the nomination.

And the super's are the delegates that are really going to
count, especially this time.

It's going to be a sight to behold. I just wished I could be
a fly on the wall when it all comes down. Wow, wouldn't
that be something. Old Al Sharpton better get his
bullhorn tuned up and his demonstrators all ready. He
is going to need them.

[PixelPusher]

I LOVE this argument from people. The Clintons aren't done! They still have tricks up their sleaves! They're the Clintons!

They've been the Clintons this whole time. They've been using their tricks this whole time.

And they're losing.
That and the idea that all of these superdelegates worship and obey the Clintons and place their wishes above their own political careers or their own sense of the future of the party.

[smeagol]

Well you didn't cite anything outside the forums man. You cited what certain posters here have said and you're citing a link that may or may not exsist on these forums.

How am I supposed to think you're basing your opinion on the matter off something other than what you use to back it up?


Because you are God.

You should be able to read my mind :rollin

[MannyIsGod]

That and the idea that all of these superdelegates worship and obey the Clintons and place their wishes above their own political careers or their own sense of the future of the party.

Or that the super delegate trends are going to magicaly reverse and swing in a wildly opposite direction.

I guess people will believe what they want no matter how far out of touch with reality it is.

[MannyIsGod]

Because you are God.

You should be able to read my mind :rollin

Smeagol the times I've tried its given me a headache :p

[xrayzebra]

That and the idea that all of these superdelegates worship and obey the Clintons and place their wishes above their own political careers or their own sense of the future of the party.

They don't worship the Clintons. But damn sure don't think
they are not going to go with who they think can win in November. If it hairlips the world, that is who they are going
to go with. If they think Obama can win they will go with
him and if they Hillary can win they will go with her. Hey,
they might even go with a third party. Don't rule that
out. Gore may still have a chance.

[smeagol]

If they think Hussein can win they will go with him and if they Hillary can win they will go with her. Hey,
they might even go with a third party. Don't rule that
out. Gore may still have a chance.

Fixed

[MannyIsGod]

They don't worship the Clintons. But damn sure don't think
they are not going to go with who they think can win in November. If it hairlips the world, that is who they are going
to go with. If they think Obama can win they will go with
him and if they Hillary can win they will go with her. Hey,
they might even go with a third party. Don't rule that
out. Gore may still have a chance.

They're going with who can win in November and who their constituations wnat them to go with. These are elected officials for the most part and you're really mistaken if their constituations don't weigh in. Look at what happend to some of the delegates who declared for Clinton from the DC area. After they election where Barack crushed her, all of a sudden they had a change of heart.

OOPS.

Not only that, but its important to note that the majority of the Super delegates have already declared. There are under 300 left to declare, from which Clinton would need to bridge a gap of whats going to be around 100 super delegates. She has only a 25 SD lead or so which has been shrinking for months but she's all of a sudden going to start picking them up at a pace to earn her 3/4ths of the remaining SDs?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH.

And Amare is going to play defense. And Pop is going to dye his hair blue. And Rasho is going to win a dunk contest.

Yup.

[Don Quixote]

I LOVE this argument from people. The Clintons aren't done! They still have tricks up their sleaves! They're the Clintons!

They've been the Clintons this whole time. They've been using their tricks this whole time.

And they're losing.

I take it you won't vote for Clinton in the general. I'm actually with you on that one. Stick to your principles. Vote for Obama anyway.

[MannyIsGod]

I take it you won't vote for Clinton in the general. I'm actually with you on that one. Stick to your principles. Vote for Obama anyway.

Clinton won't be on the ballot. No one's gonna vote for her in the fall.

[Don Quixote]

Okay, if you say so.

But what happens if she is? It's still more than possible.

I would advise Obamicans to go to that convention in Denver and make their feelings known. By force if necessary. Do not let that sleazy Clinton steal your man's nomination.

[MannyIsGod]

Okay, if you say so.

But what happens if she is? It's still more than possible.

I would advise Obamicans to go to that convention in Denver and make their feelings known. By force if necessary. Do not let that sleazy Clinton steal your man's nomination.

I'll deal with the miracle if it happens when it happens. I'm pretty confident that its not going to happen.

I"ll give you 99:1 odds on a bet. You game?

[Cannongurl]

Ok

Hillary is bitter and she wants Obama to lose the general. So she's gonna stay in the race as long as she can and drag his name through the mud as much as she can. She know she's not getting the nom so after the general she can rub it in everyones face that we should have picked her even though its gonna be her fault that he's gonna have less than 6 months to rally the dems, and start running against McCain. It's really a brilliant plan on her part but its not so great for the democratic party.

[JoeChalupa]

:lol

Yeah, I'm sure she has some super secret game plan and is just waiting to bust it out to pull out the miracle come from behind wind at the last second.

Joe, she's had game plans the entire way. Thats what a campaign is. The thing is, they're LOSING game plans or else she'd actually be ahead in the delegates. Whether or not she cares about the delegates is irrelevant. Barak is going to get them and there's pretty much nothing she can do (apparently) to stop it.

She's lost, just because she hasn't acknowledged it and just because the media hasn't held her accountable doesn't change the reality of the delegate math one bit.

I think if she loses NC then she'll drop out. If she also loses IN she won't have a choice. But if she wins both she won't drop out. It may be over mathmatically but she won't drop out. At least I don't think she will.
I still say she'll be president one day but it won't be this year.

[JoeChalupa]

Ok

Hillary is bitter and she wants Obama to lose the general. So she's gonna stay in the race as long as she can and drag his name through the mud as much as she can. She know she's not getting the nom so after the general she can rub it in everyones face that we should have picked her even though its gonna be her fault that he's gonna have less than 6 months to rally the dems, and start running against McCain. It's really a brilliant plan on her part but its not so great for the democratic party.

I concur. I've thought about that as well. Obama will be so damaged he'll lose to McCain and she'll be smiling all the way and will go after McCain in 4 years.

[Heath Ledger]

Manny only a fool would understimate the power and pull of the Clintons. They have pulled more than one rabbit out of their hats going back to the governing days. I suggest you study up.

[Heath Ledger]

If Hillary wins the democratic nod Manny i want you to request Heath Ledger is my daddy to be put under your avatar for 6 months. If she doesn't win i will do the same.

[MannyIsGod]

I get to choose your title. I want something better than that lame shit. Easiest bet ever.

[MannyIsGod]

I think if she loses NC then she'll drop out. If she also loses IN she won't have a choice. But if she wins both she won't drop out. It may be over mathmatically but she won't drop out. At least I don't think she will.
I still say she'll be president one day but it won't be this year.

She's not dropping out. She's not only going to lose NC she's going to get destroyed. IN is even money either way, but it really doesn't matter.

[Don Quixote]

I'll deal with the miracle if it happens when it happens. I'm pretty confident that its not going to happen.

I"ll give you 99:1 odds on a bet. You game?

99:1 is quite long. I'd put it at almost even money at this point, maybe a hair toward Obama.

But don't think that Clinton and her supporters will stand by and let this guy just make off with her nomination. First of all, he's the kind of eastern intellectual uber-lib that tends to get smeared in national elections, and he's insulted quite a few of the "Jacksonian" patriotic, working-class union men that vote Democratic. I'm not sure how many of them wouldn't prefer McCain to Obama this cycle.

Yet ... if your man Obama gets the nod, I don't see how the situation improves. Will Obamaniacs swallow their mantra of "change" and cast their vote for Hillary, who everyone knows is "same old same old"?

Quite a dilemma. And there will be blood either way.

[SPARKY]

Yes, the Clintons are all about themselves. Surprise, surprise.

[Don Quixote]

It's too late. Even if Clinton quit today and went home, it wouldn't change the issue much, because I suspect there is a large chunk of Democrat-leaning voters who will think twice before voting for Change We Can Believe In, etc., in the general election.

[boutons_]

the nomination campaign, the election campaign, is insanely too long and over-complicated. Yet another, now post-PA, analysis that shows Obama has is very probably locked up:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/24/02723/7112/307/502085

[Nbadan]

Ok

Hillary is bitter and she wants Obama to lose the general. So she's gonna stay in the race as long as she can and drag his name through the mud as much as she can. She know she's not getting the nom so after the general she can rub it in everyones face that we should have picked her even though its gonna be her fault that he's gonna have less than 6 months to rally the dems, and start running against McCain. It's really a brilliant plan on her part but its not so great for the democratic party.

It's not so brilliant when you consider that tracking polls still have the eventual democratic candidate with a 61% favorable advantage over McCain, plus, by going to her kitchen sink strategy, she has removed herself of ever being considered a running mate for Obama....

[Nbadan]

I think if she loses NC then she'll drop out. If she also loses IN she won't have a choice. But if she wins both she won't drop out. It may be over mathmatically but she won't drop out. At least I don't think she will.
I still say she'll be president one day but it won't be this year.

Doesn't matter if she stays in or not, the important part is that Obama wins Indiana and that he wins NC convincingly, then you'll see many the remaining supers jump on his campaign bandwagon and put it out of reach for Clinton....the Democratic elders don't wanna see this drag on past June....

[Nbadan]

Jon Stewart: Hillary's Declining Respect for The Voters..


Zi6mP6l6nBI

One has to wonder why doesn't the M$M ever have this kind of analysis of the issues? 'fake' news is becoming more honest and true to 'real' news roots with every passing day....amazing.....

[Nbadan]

In case you missed it....the WSJ called the race yesterday...

The Democrats Have a Nominee
April 24, 2008; Page A11
So what?


Other than ensuring the Greatest Show on Earth will continue, does it matter that Hillary Clinton defeated Barack Obama Tuesday in Pennsylvania by nine-plus points? Barack Obama is the nominee.

No matter how many kicks the rest of us find in such famously fun primary states as Indiana and South Dakota, it's going to be McCain versus Obama in 2008.

I believe the cement set around the Clinton coffin last Friday. The Obama campaign announced it had received the support of former Sens. Sam Nunn of Georgia and David Boren of Oklahoma. Wonder Land columnist Dan Henninger says despite her primary win in Pennsylvania, it's over for Hillary. (April 23)

Both are what some of us nostalgically call Serious Democrats. They represent what the party was, but is no more: sensible on national security, spending and middle-class values. Obama receiving their imprimatur is like hands reaching out from the graves of FDR, JFK and LBJ to announce: "Enough is enough. This man is your nominee. Go forth and fight with the Republicans." Make no mistake: Superdelegates with sway took notice.

Former Sen. Nunn is sometimes mentioned as a possible running mate for Sen. Obama. In a better world, Sam Nunn (or a David Boren) would have been the party's candidate for president. Such candidacies remain impossible under the iron law of Democratic primary politics: No centrist can secure the party's nomination in a primary system dominated by left-liberal activists. The iron law produces candidacies such as McGovern (1972), Mondale ('84), Dukakis ('88), Gore ('00) or Kerry ('04), who pay so many left-liberal obeisances to win in the primaries that they cannot attract sufficient moderates at the margins to win the general election.

Bill Clinton, who broke that law twice, knows all this. His 1996 triangulation campaign dangled welfare reform and spending restraint. It worked.

Hillary Clinton knows all this. In 2005, just after George W. Bush won re-election buoyed by "moral values" voters, Sen. Clinton reached out to them in a January speech: "the primary reason that teenage girls abstain [from sex] is because of their religious and moral values. We should embrace this." By "we" she meant that voters still wedded to middle-class respectability, say in Ohio, should embrace her.

She has worked hard as a member of the Armed Services Committee to establish her bona fides with general officers, and some have endorsed her. As well, her hedged, equivocal vote "for" the Iraq War was mainly a centrist investment to cash in fall 2008. (The left won't allow it; see iron law above.)

The 2008 nomination was hers. There was no competition. She was a lock to run for the roses against the Republican nominee. Republicans must have had this conversation a hundred times back then: "It's Hillary. She's got it. Get over it."

Sam Nunn and David Boren by political temperament should be in her camp. Instead, they threw in with Obama, who calls his campaign "post-partisan," a ludicrous phrase. The blowback at ABC's debate makes clear that Obama is the left's man. So what did Messrs. Nunn and Boren see?

The biggest event was the Clinton Abandonment. In a campaign of surprises, none has been more breathtaking than the falling away of Clinton supporters, loyalists . . . and friends. Why?

Money. Barack Obama's mystical pull on people is nice, but nice in modern politics comes after money. Once Barack proved conclusively that he could raise big-time cash, the Clintons' strongest tie to their machine began to unravel. Today he's got $42 million banked. She's got a few million north of nothing.

But it's more than that. Barack Obama's Web-based fund-raising apparatus is, if one may say so, respectable. The Clintons' "donor base" has been something else.

It is hard to overstate how fatigued Democratic donors in Manhattan and L.A. got during the Clinton presidency to have Bill and Hillary fly in, repeatedly, to sweep checking accounts. The Lincoln Bedroom rental was cheesy. Bill's 60th birthday gala (tickets $60,000 to 500K) was a Clinton fund-raiser. The 1996 John Huang-Lippo-China fund-raising scandal pushed Clinton contributors toward a milieu most didn't need in their lives. Hillary's 2007 Norman Hsu fund-raising scandal was an unsettling rerun of what the donor base could expect from another Clinton presidency.

It was all kind of gross, but the Clintons never seemed to see that. When Obama proved he could perform this most basic function in politics, it was a get-out-of-jail-free card for many Democrats. For some, this may be personal. For others, it is likely a belief that the party's interests lie with finding an alternative to the Clinton saga. One guesses this is what Sam Nunn and David Boren concluded.

Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania prove it won't be easy. Barack Obama himself said Tuesday night, "I'm not perfect." He heads to the nomination freighted with all the familiar Democratic tensions that keep a Sam Nunn off the ballot: race and gender obsessions, semipacifism and you bet, bitter white voters. So be it. For modern Democrats, winning the White House always requires some sort of magic to get near 50%. For the Clintons, that bag is empty. The Democrats have a new magician. It's Obama.

Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120899521565139921.html?mod=todays_columnists&apl=y&r=12188)

[jochhejaam]

.

btw, fwiw, exit polls showed PA people who voted Hillary trusted Obama more by a huge margin. :lol


But they don't trust him enough to put the fate of the Country in his hands.

"Houston, we have a problem"!

I will suggest that the "typical white person" is afraid to say they trust Hillary more because typically it would elicit the charge of racism.



The Liberals are going to blow another one. <no pun intended>

[Don Quixote]

I agree. The point is not that Hillary will somehow get enough delegates to beat Obama. The point is that she's picked up enough so that there is not a decisive winner before the convention. Put that together with Obama's aforementioned problems ... and, yes, Denver, we have a problem.

[smeagol]

Can super delegates that have already pledged their allegiance to Obama have a change of heart?

[xrayzebra]

Can super delegates that have already pledged their allegiance to Obama have a change of heart?

Right up until the final vote is taken and then if no one
has a majority of the votes they are free to change again
until someone finally gets all the marbles. (majority of the
vote). Even the pledged votes (those from the states primaries) can change their
votes during the convention.

[smeagol]

Right up until the final vote is taken and then if no one
has a majority of the votes they are free to change again
until someone finally gets all the marbles. (majority of the
vote). Even the pledged votes (those from the states primaries) can change their
votes during the convention.

So Manny, there is a chance some of these Obama delegates decide Hillary is the better candidate, isn't there?

[MannyIsGod]

So Manny, there is a chance some of these Obama delegates decide Hillary is the better candidate, isn't there?

Yes.

And its still over. I wish I could give you an example that you would understand. I've tried posting number, graphs, and I've broken it down for you in order to show you how much of a longshot it is for Clinton to have any shot at the nomination and you all simply don't get it. I've tried to show you a scenario which can only be described as a Clinton wet dream and how much of a longshot it would be at that point and you still don't get it.

This forum is so frustrating at times.

Obama has had some really tough times in the campaign recently - it pretty much cannot get worse than bittergate and his pastor without some serious scandall - yet he's STILL winning the pledged delegates!

But sure - if they all of a sudden start going to her in mind boggling numbers she can win. Also, if Aliens land tomorrow and declare they worship Hilary Clinton she can also win.

Both scenarios are about as likely as the other.

[smeagol]

Yes.

And its still over. I wish I could give you an example that you would understand. I've tried posting number, graphs, and I've broken it down for you in order to show you how much of a longshot it is for Clinton to have any shot at the nomination and you all simply don't get it. I've tried to show you a scenario which can only be described as a Clinton wet dream and how much of a longshot it would be at that point and you still don't get it.


Hey, I'm not as bright as you are.

What happens if the Florida vote counts? And if she does really well in the states that are left? Would that be enough for her to win the popular vote? And if so, what happens then?



This forum is so frustrating at times.


Get over yourself. Seriously.



Obama has had some really tough times in the campaign recently - it pretty much cannot get worse than bittergate and his pastor without some serious scandall


It can get worse. Everything is possible



But sure - if they all of a sudden start going to her in mind boggling numbers she can win. Also, if Aliens land tomorrow and declare they worship Hilary Clinton she can also win.

Both scenarios are about as likely as the other.


All I hear on TV is that it is still race. But you will probably do you best nbadan impression and claim a conspiracy . . .

[Don Quixote]

Yes. I have heard that Obamians are kind of like a cult. I guess Obama's following has some cult-like characteristics: unity under and devotion to a singular person (check), a shared belief that they alone have the truth (check), and the requirement that you don't ask too many tough questions about their man/organization (check). I've run into this last one with Jehovah's Witnesses -- they get very uncomfortable when you show them their old magazines.

And the true believers will stay with a cult through thick and thin. So we ought to expect Obamanics to stay with their man, even to the end. And we should applaud their tenacity.

[Don Quixote]

Why thank you.

Allow me to clarify -- I'm not saying Obama has lost or is losing. I'm saying that, regardless of who comes out of the Convention as the winner, will leave in his or wake alot of ill feelings and the real possibility that neither is very electable. Put together with a centrist Republican and the Dems might just lose this election.

But I admire the tenacity and loyalty that Obamians have for their leader. It's endearing.

[MannyIsGod]

Hey, I'm not as bright as you are.

What happens if the Florida vote counts? And if she does really well in the states that are left? Would that be enough for her to win the popular vote? And if so, what happens then?


Florida vote won't count as is. Not going to happen, Clinton isn't even pushing it anymore. Non issue.

She's not going to do well in the states that are left. I already broke it down for you what happens if she wins by a 60:40 margin in the rest of the states in any case, and she'd still need to win the SD's by a 2:1 margin which she's not doing now.

And let me explain that to you very explicitly - again: HER WINNING EVERY STATE BY THAT MARGIN IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Actually her winning every state is impossible (I doubt even with a huge scandall she'd win NC).



Get over yourself. Seriously.


Stop being so damn dense. When I take the time to make a detailed post to show you something, don't turn around and ask me what I just showed you and not expect me to get frustrated. Why on the 3rd page of this thread are you still acting as though she can win every state?



It can get worse. Everything is possible


Like I said, if Obama murders his wife tomorrow then sure.



All I hear on TV is that it is still race. But you will probably do you best nbadan impression and claim a conspiracy . . .


LOL LOL LOL

Yeah, the media has no interest in keeping this going. They're not making money off of it, they're just reporting honestly. Sure, they're not leaving out anything smeagol. Nothing.

LOL @ all I hear on TV. Yeah, That matters so much man. So much.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes. I have heard that Obamians are kind of like a cult. I guess Obama's following has some cult-like characteristics: unity under and devotion to a singular person (check), a shared belief that they alone have the truth (check), and the requirement that you don't ask too many tough questions about their man/organization (check). I've run into this last one with Jehovah's Witnesses -- they get very uncomfortable when you show them their old magazines.

And the true believers will stay with a cult through thick and thin. So we ought to expect Obamanics to stay with their man, even to the end. And we should applaud their tenacity.

Seriously, entirely different reality. I bet you hang out with evil cartman.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes. I have heard that Bushites are kind of like a cult. I guess Bush's following has some cult-like characteristics: unity under and devotion to a singular person (check), a shared belief that they alone have the truth (check), and the requirement that you don't ask too many tough questions about their man/organization (check). I've run into this last one with Jehovah's Witnesses -- they get very uncomfortable when you show them their old magazines.

And the true believers will stay with a cult through thick and thin. So we ought to expect Bushidos to stay with their man, even to the end. And we should applaud their tenacity.

[Don Quixote]

I hope for your sake that Obama manages to hang on. I don't want to see how torked off you will be when he gets shafted.

[JoeChalupa]

I hope for your sake that Obama manages to hang on. I don't want to see how torked off you will be when he gets shafted.


It ain't over yet...not yet.