Is Dirk Nowitzki underappreciated?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This might sound like blasphemy coming from a Spurs fan, but I think Dirk is arguably one of the most under appreciated players in the league.


I know he won MVP last year, but I still feel like he doesn't get the respect that he deserves for his skills as a player (more so from the media and regular NBA fans).


You can certainly make claims about his playoff success, but the dude just put up 32 and 17 tonight (his rebounding improvement is impressive) and can really take over a game.

[Amare_32]

Because he chokes 2-0 leads in the NBA Finals.

[poo-doe wayne-o]

Because he chokes 2-0 leads in the NBA Finals.


you gotta get there to choke there.

what round do the suns usually roll over? (cuz it aint anywhere near the nba finals)

my bet this year, 1st round.

[endrity]

This might sound like blasphemy coming from a Spurs fan, but I think Dirk is arguably one of the most under appreciated players in the league.


I know he won MVP last year, but I still feel like he doesn't get the respect that he deserves for his skills as a player (more so from the media and regular NBA fans).


You can certainly make claims about his playoff success, but the dude just put up 32 and 17 tonight (his rebounding improvement is impressive) and can really take over a game.

You have been very consistent in defending him and yes you are right.
The guy has been First Team NBA the last three years, MVP, and really deserved every single thing if not more. He has been one of the top 2-3 players in the league these last few years.

Yet he is treated as if he is some secondary, role player trash. I will not understand why, but he is. Ginobili is foreign, Nash is white, so it's not just stereotype. Maybe it's because his game is unique, and goofy to a certain extent. But someone has to write an article about him on ESPN or something, and really explain what the guy has done. Hollinger and Stein are not enough, not when you have the Scoop Jacksons, Tim Leglers, Ric Buchers, Jemele Hills, Steven As of the world.

[endrity]

Because he chokes 2-0 leads in the NBA Finals.

Oh yeah, he choked big time in game 5 and 6. Couldn't get a thing going. If he could somehow stopped Bennet Salvatore from making some of the most ridicolous calls in history he would not have been a "choker".

[Udrihlooms]

you gotta get there to choke there.

what round do the suns usually roll over? (cuz it aint anywhere near the nba finals)

my bet this year, 1st round.

:lol


Right on the spot!

I'd love to have Dirk in black and silver!

[sribb43]

Because he chokes 2-0 leads in the NBA Finals.

ask Tim Thomas about Dirk dropping 50 on his ass in the 2006 WCF

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/stacem28/71105967.jpg

[poo-doe wayne-o]

his game is unique, and goofy to a certain extent.



lol, ya. he sometimes looks like nothing but arms and legs headed for the basket. but will admit, he can score the ball, and his d has actually gotten a little better under avery johnson.

[endrity]

lol, ya. he sometimes looks like nothing but arms and legs headed for the basket. but will admit, he can score the ball, and his d has actually gotten a little better under avery johnson.

His d was getting better even during the Nellie days. What happened more than anything is that under Avery the roster also changed, and the Mavs are to a certain extent better at defending the perimeter than they were during the Nash, VanExel, Finley days. Dirk almost never struggles with big men anymore, it is the quicker guys that give him problems and the switching during pick and rolls. But I really think that Dirk's lack of D is more of a myth at this point. He is easily an average defender, if not more, and really hustles on D.

[Amare_32]

ask Tim Thomas about Dirk dropping 50 on his ass in the 2006 WCF

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/stacem28/71105967.jpg



Wow what a career highlight dropping 50 points on the defensive powerhouse that is the Suns. :lol

[poo-doe wayne-o]

:lol


Right on the spot!

I'd love to have Dirk in black and silver!


holy cow. timmy and dirk would be murder.

[endrity]

:lol


Right on the spot!

I'd love to have Dirk in black and silver!

If Dallas blows it up after this year, than there is no better place I'd like to see Dirk be in. Talk about a frontline, and talk about an international team.

I don't know if a German and a French can coexist but they might give it a try. :downspin:

[endrity]

Wow what a career highlight dropping 50 points on the defensive powerhouse that is the Suns. :lol

Yet the only other guy that has done that recently in the playoffs is Kobe. Not a bad category to be in.

Plus given the stage, I think it was a pretty big statement, especially considering that he took over the game when the Mavs were down and about to lose control of the series.

[ludda]

32 points, 19 rebounds, 6 assists

nice statline.

Only way Dirk will get more appreciation is by playing like that more often in the playoffs, the GS series is the most recent and probably most dominant memory in most people's minds of Dirk, fair or not.

Also against the Hornets, Dirk needs to really outplay West for the Mavs to even have a chance.

[greensborohill]

This might sound like blasphemy coming from a Spurs fan, but I think Dirk is arguably one of the most under appreciated players in the league.


I know he won MVP last year, but I still feel like he doesn't get the respect that he deserves for his skills as a player (more so from the media and regular NBA fans).


You can certainly make claims about his playoff success, but the dude just put up 32 and 17 tonight (his rebounding improvement is impressive) and can really take over a game.


32 19 6 dimes and 2 blocks

I just wish he'd get a fair shake. . . for instance T-Mac is a sympathetic figure in comparison.

[endrity]

32 points, 19 rebounds, 6 assists

nice statline.

Only way Dirk will get more appreciation is by playing like that more often in the playoffs, the GS series is the most recent and probably most dominant memory in most people's minds of Dirk, fair or not.

Also against the Hornets, Dirk needs to really outplay West for the Mavs to even have a chance.

But he has, that's the thing. Dirk has been fabulous throught this series too. Dirk has a history of saving the Mavs in the playoffs. Yet TMac gets more respect than he does.

[Udrihlooms]

holy cow. timmy and dirk would be murder.

wishful thinking, but that'll extend the Spurs championship run, and will give Dirk his first or if he's lucky a few more rings after that.


:downspin:

We can give Horry, Barry, and Finley back and any other person not named TIm, Manu or Tony.

[Elraptor]

Yea he deserves some more respect, but overall my answer to this question is kinda.

[Findog]

Short answer - yes, he is underappreciated.

[21_Blessings]

Dirks consistent choking in big playoff games is not underappreciated.

[Findog]

Dirks consistent choking in big playoff games is not underappreciated.

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat

[mavs>spurs2]

This thread should bring out atxcocker..guys the biggest Dirk hater on the board. Which it's ok to dislike certain players but his Dirk hate has no actual basis, he just spews shit out his ass. Maybe it's racially motivated? Because "Dirk is a choker" is lame, played out, and is proven totally inaccurate, not a good reason at all. Yes, Dirk is underappreciated.

[Findog]

And don't pay attention to 21 Deuces, he's just a Laker troll. I actually have to give props to DazedandConfused, he's left his initial trolling behind for the most part and has brought some solid takes.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I am really impressed with the Spurs right now.

OK, we can go back to Dirk :lol

[Spurminator]

Dirk is the David Robinson of the Mavs.

[dirk4mvp]

32 19 6 dimes and 2 blocks

I just wish he'd get a fair shake. . . for instance T-Mac is a sympathetic figure in comparison.

God forbid the bullshit the media would spew out if Dirk scored 1 fucking point in the 4th quarters in the first 2 games. :sleep

[E20]

Dirk is one of my fav players to watch.

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk is one of my fav players to watch.

I'm not pointing you out specifically, but I remember a time when spur fans in general hated Dirk's fucking guts.

Now he's getting all kind of love. :lol

[jonnybravo]

You have been very consistent in defending him and yes you are right.
The guy has been First Team NBA the last three years, MVP, and really deserved every single thing if not more. He has been one of the top 2-3 players in the league these last few years.

Yet he is treated as if he is some secondary, role player trash. I will not understand why, but he is. Ginobili is foreign, Nash is white, so it's not just stereotype. Maybe it's because his game is unique, and goofy to a certain extent. But someone has to write an article about him on ESPN or something, and really explain what the guy has done. Hollinger and Stein are not enough, not when you have the Scoop Jacksons, Tim Leglers, Ric Buchers, Jemele Hills, Steven As of the world.


The choke label is a bit overused as well.

During hte 06' ships, everyone and anyone who wasn't a blatant Heat homer or was just looking to diss the Mavs knows the Zebras gave Dwhistle that series.

When other PLAYERS are on the record saying something is up (i.e. Tmac Houston radio interview), something is up.

[E20]

I'm not pointing you out specifically, but I remember a time when spur fans in general hated Dirk's fucking guts.

Now he's getting all kind of love. :lol

When he torches us that's when I hate him, but as a fan of the game I love watching indivdual greats doing what they do best. I may have called Kobe shit when he was playing against us, but I've also loved watching him play against other teams, same with LBJ etc.....

[E20]

I've predicted Mavs in 7 as well. LOL

[Findog]

But he has, that's the thing. Dirk has been fabulous throught this series too. Dirk has a history of saving the Mavs in the playoffs. Yet TMac gets more respect than he does.

I don't know that that's necessarily true. A team with TMac as its best player has never made it out of the first round. A team with Dirk as its best player has won 8 series and gone to the Finals. I think TMac gets more sympathy because his story is seen as more tragic, but I don't know that he is considered better than Dirk. As much as Dirk has lost while being square in the spotlight, lots of guys would kill to have his career and level of success.

There's plenty of legit criticism to be made of Dirk and his game, but some of the stuff that gets spewed in his direction is just totally irrational. I think it has to do with subconscious bias against Euro players defaulting to automatically being considered soft until proven otherwise. Also, Dirk's on-court demeanor is not that brash, in your face stuff that we see from American players that have grown up on the playgrounds and playing AAU ball and in prep tournament play. I don't think anything of that sequence with David West one way or the other, but it's just fascinating how people seized on that and talked it up the way they did.

[mystargtr34]

Dirk is probably the most under-appreciated star player in the league... and now has become under rated.

The dude just hung 32-19-6 in the biggest game of their season.... the last time anybody did that was Tim Duncan in 2003. He has come through so many times, yes in crunch situations... he is the reason the Spurs arent lining up their 4th championship in a ROW.... he dropped 50 on Pheonix in a game 6 eliminator... hes just been huge on alot of occassions... unfortunately he doesnt like to throw punches and get suspended from series for someone putting a hand on his cheek

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

As an NBA fan, I like Dirk but no.

He had his fair share of media spotlight, praises, and attention back in 2006, and then
and just got in a low ebb after the 2007 debacle, and because he was the face of the team, took the heat for it.
He's still relatively young for a franchise player, so I don't think he's going to be underappreciated when he's still contending for years to come.
He's got criticized and called-out last year but he's already bouncing back from that dark spell.
Anyway, you guys are too mercurial to feel sorry for Dirk, he's fine and still respected as a premier player. He still considered one of the top 3 PF's in the league. It's Avery and his supporting cast that have taken the edge off of Dirk.

And I don't agree that TMac "the second round" virgin gets more respect than Dirk does. :lol

[endrity]

The choke label is a bit overused as well.

During hte 06' ships, everyone and anyone who wasn't a blatant Heat homer or was just looking to diss the Mavs knows the Zebras gave Dwhistle that series.

When other PLAYERS are on the record saying something is up (i.e. Tmac Houston radio interview), something is up.


And not only that, he actually had good series. Not a San Antonio or Phoenix type, but the series were slower in pace as well. He had huge games 5 and 6. So people who call him out for that series really couldn't be any more wrong.

[endrity]

I don't know that that's necessarily true. A team with TMac as its best player has never made it out of the first round. A team with Dirk as its best player has won 8 series and gone to the Finals. I think TMac gets more sympathy because his story is seen as more tragic, but I don't know that he is considered better than Dirk. As much as Dirk has lost while being square in the spotlight, lots of guys would kill to have his career and level of success.
There's plenty of legit criticism to be made of Dirk and his game, but some of the stuff that gets spewed in his direction is just totally irrational. I think it has to do with subconscious bias against Euro players defaulting to automatically being considered soft until proven otherwise. Also, Dirk's on-court demeanor is not that brash, in your face stuff that we see from American players that have grown up on the playgrounds and playing AAU ball and in prep tournament play. I don't think anything of that sequence with David West one way or the other, but it's just fascinating how people seized on that and talked it up the way they did.

Maybe so, but yet it seems like I have read a lot of "it's not his fault stories on TMac". On the other hand, while Dirk is having a fabulous series against the Hornets (check the numbers), a guy like Tim Legler shows up and says Dallas fans should take it easy on AJ because it's Dirk's fault!!!!! We are one bad game from Dirk away from losing control of the series, and this guy blames the only player that has shown up.

And it's true that Dirk has had a great career, and many players would love to have his career. The thing is though, that few people in the media or fans realize that short of winning a championship he has done everything possible. He is also probably the best player in international tournaments during the decade as well.

[DAF86]

I don't think Dirk is underappreciated, in fact in my opinion is one of the most fairly-appreciated players on the league. He's a star and a great player but he's not in the same category as Duncan, Bryant, etc.
Really think about it, he won one of the most controversial MVP awards ever, that's an award selected by the media, if he were so underappreciated he wouldn't have won it.

[DAF86]

He is also probably the best player in international tournaments during the decade as well.

Sorry but that's a big fat lie. :nope

You are forgetting Manu Ginobili, A.K.A:"the ultimate winner".

[MONTENEGRINO]

I remember how he hammered the Spain in Euro semi finals... 2 sec left, GER down by 1... Dirk over Garbajosa and someone else...boom! Spain cry :D

[dirk4mvp]

Sorry but that's a big fat lie. :nope

You are forgetting Manu Ginobili, A.K.A:"the ultimate winner".

no

[The Nba Is Rigged]

I just can't understand the Dirk Hate, the man competes hard in the playoffs and he usually has monster games but as soon as he has a bad game he is quickly destroyed by the media and called a choker by fans, last night Dirk had 32 points, 19 rebounds, 6 assists and 2 blocks. Of course Espn and the media will try their best to downplay his stats and they will wait for him to have a bad game and then the Dirk bashing will continue. The shit is fucked up.

[Findog]

I just can't understand the Dirk Hate, the man competes hard in the playoffs and he usually has monster games but as soon as he has a bad game he is quickly destroyed by the media and called a choker by fans, last night Dirk had 32 points, 19 rebounds, 6 assists and 2 blocks. Of course Espn and the media will try their best to downplay his stats and they will wait for him to have a bad game and then the Dirk bashing will continue. The shit is fucked up.

Can you imagine the hell that would've broken loose if Dirk scored 7 points at home with his team down 0-2?

[endrity]

Sorry but that's a big fat lie. :nope

You are forgetting Manu Ginobili, A.K.A:"the ultimate winner".

No!!!! I have watched every tournament since 01. Dirk has played in every tournament his team has played in, something that Manu has not done. He has also been in the Tournament's first team every time, something that Manu again hasn't done.

Manu has the gold medal in Athens, but not the world championships. They really get that Indy Final out of their hands. I know Manu was hurt, but it's not like he has won every tournament.

And before you saying that Dirk hasn't either, Germany has a team of amateurs while Argentina has one of the most talented teams on the planet outside of U.S

Manu is arguably the most accomplished player in Fiba tournaments, but Dirk has been the absolute best. And not to rub it in because I love Manu, but Pau is probably second after Dirk.

[TampaDude]

Dirk is awesome...he does it all...if he ever joined the Spurs, the rest of the WC would cry... :lol

[DAF86]

No!!!! I have watched every tournament since 01. Dirk has played in every tournament his team has played in, something that Manu has not done. He has also been in the Tournament's first team every time, something that Manu again hasn't done.

Manu has the gold medal in Athens, but not the world championships. They really get that Indy Final out of their hands. I know Manu was hurt, but it's not like he has won every tournament.

And before you saying that Dirk hasn't either, Germany has a team of amateurs while Argentina has one of the most talented teams on the planet outside of U.S

Manu is arguably the most accomplished player in Fiba tournaments, but Dirk has been the absolute best. And not to rub it in because I love Manu, but Pau is probably second after Dirk.

Manu doesn't have the world championships 'cause like you said he got hurt in the semi-final (where he beat Germany and an invisible Dirk), what shows you just how important he's for Argentina.
Besides Dirk doesn't have the world 'ship, the Olympics, the Euro-cup, nothing, so that's not something you can pull on your favour.
People can't underrate the importance of winning, you can't call a player the best in something (much less in an extended time of 10 years) when that player hasn't won anything.
I think that Dirk is a great player but not so great like many Mavs fans think.

P.S: And yes, you're right Pau is the 2nd best player in internationals tournaments, 1-Manu 2-Pau.

[dirk4mvp]

Manu doesn't have the world championships 'cause like you said he got hurt in the semi-final (where he beat Germany and an invisible Dirk), what shows you just how important he's for Argentina.
Besides Dirk doesn't have the world 'ship, the Olympics, the Euro-cup, nothing, so that's not something you can pull on your favour.
People can't underrate the importance of winning, you can't call a player the best in something (much less in an extended time of 10 years) when that player hasn't won anything.
I think that Dirk is a great player but not so great like many Mavs fans think.


He's better than Manu.

[DAF86]

He's better than Manu.

Says who? you?

If the both retire today Manu will be a lock for the HOF Dirk I don't think so.

[dirk4mvp]

Says who? you?

If the both retire today Manu will be a lock for the HOF Dirk I don't think so.

says anybody that's not a blind homer and has a lick of sense.

and that maybe the other way around.

[Allanon]

If I could pick a player on an NBA team between:

Dirk
Manu
Tony Parker
TMac
Nash
Matrix
Pau
CP3
Boozer
Peja
Carmelo
DWade

I'd take Dirk

[DAF86]

says anybody that's not a blind homer and has a lick of sense.

and that maybe the other way around.

Now who's the blind homer? go check the facts and get information 'bout the Basketball Hall of Fame.

:owned

[sribb43]

Manu doesn't have the world championships 'cause like you said he got hurt in the semi-final (where he beat Germany and an invisible Dirk), what shows you just how important he's for Argentina.
Besides Dirk doesn't have the world 'ship, the Olympics, the Euro-cup, nothing, so that's not something you can pull on your favour.
People can't underrate the importance of winning, you can't call a player the best in something (much less in an extended time of 10 years) when that player hasn't won anything.
I think that Dirk is a great player but not so great like many Mavs fans think.

P.S: And yes, you're right Pau is the 2nd best player in internationals tournaments, 1-Manu 2-Pau.

Last time I checked Germany's roster is complete shit besides Dirk and Argentina has a roster full of solid NBA players

[DAF86]

Last time I checked Germany's roster is complete shit besides Dirk and Argentina has a roster full of solid NBA players

Last time you checked you checked wrong. Just because you don't know them that doesn't mean they're shit.
Ask wade, Lebron, Carmelo if they knew something 'bout Greece.

[lefty]

I really underappreciate Dirk

http://static.flickr.com/67/177180319_17f9e85d3e.jpg

[DAF86]

I really underappreciate Dirk

http://static.flickr.com/67/177180319_17f9e85d3e.jpg

:lmao

[sribb43]

I really underappreciate Dirk

http://static.flickr.com/67/177180319_17f9e85d3e.jpg

:rollin

[ElNono]

Dirk is extremely talented. He can definitely put up big numbers on any given night. His basketball IQ is also pretty high.
But at the same time, he's soft as a sponge, not a leader, he flops a lot, and he's not clutch.

This is not hating. This is just my opinion at this time. There's the good and there's the bad, just like any other basketball player.

And please drop the whole he's the best player this or that. You play basketball to win. That's the ultimate goal. He has yet to win anything at any level. At least Malone and Barkley have 2 olympic gold medals to show.

[ElNono]

Last time I checked Germany's roster is complete shit besides Dirk and Argentina has a roster full of solid NBA players

When Argentina won the gold medal in Athens, the only player actually playing in the NBA was Ginobili. When Argentina beat Team USA in Atlanta a couple of years earlier, nobody played in the NBA, including Ginobili.

[Amarelooms]

Dirk is extremely talented. He can definitely put up big numbers on any given night. His basketball IQ is also pretty high.
But at the same time, he's soft as a sponge, not a leader, he flops a lot, and he's not clutch.

This is not hating. This is just my opinion at this time. There's the good and there's the bad, just like any other basketball player.

And please drop the whole he's the best player this or that. You play basketball to win. That's the ultimate goal. He has yet to win anything at any level. At least Malone and Barkley have 2 olympic gold medals to show.

LOL you are a moron...Malone and Barkley were on the dream team with Jordan et al...put Dirk on there and pretty sure that team wins gold...fuck off hater :elephant

[ElNono]

LOL you are a moron...Malone and Barkley were on the dream team with Jordan et al...put Dirk on there and pretty sure that team wins gold...fuck off hater :elephant

Who cares? If he's so good he can take a bunch of unknowns, beat Team USA and win gold all by himself. That's what Ginobili did, and I'll be the first to tell you that Dirk is more talented than Manu.
However, he's soft and he can't lead... thus, he can't win.

[mavs>spurs2]

Dirk is extremely talented. He can definitely put up big numbers on any given night. His basketball IQ is also pretty high.
But at the same time, he's soft as a sponge, not a leader, he flops a lot, and he's not clutch.

Someone actually posted a link a while back putting all that to rest. Dirk has the highest efficiency rating in the 4th quarter in the league or something along those lines.

[DAF86]

Someone actually posted a link a while back putting all that to rest. Dirk has the highest efficiency rating in the 4th quarter in the league or something along those lines.

I don't know 'bout that, I read in a lot of places that Manu's the best numbers in clutch situations by far. He shoots like 70 something % with the game on the line.

Anyways, I don't think Dirk chokes in crunch time either.

[JoeTait75]

Well, he should have had the game-winning basket in Game 5 of the '06 Finals, and would have if the officials hadn'd done D-Wade a solid on his last drive...

It's the nature of the beast. If a team is seen as an underachiever, its best player is going to take the lion's share of the heat. It might be unfair, but it's just the way it is.

People tend to forget how bad the Mavericks were before Dirk came along. He deserves a lot of credit for his part in turning that franchise around. So yeah, he is underappreciated. I'd take him on my team.

[dbreiden83080]

After the 2006 series with the Spurs my opinion of Dirk was pretty sky high. He was amazing in that series. However after the finals it was a little less as he was not nearly as clutch and i felt made bad decisions. His play against the Warriors though last year really hurt my opinion of him. That game 6 at GS, he played scared. HE was not calling for the ball at all, did not try to get his guys back into it, he looked like he wanted to be anywhere else but in that game. I don't feel he is much of a leader Dirk, not when it really matters. Don't feel he is mentally tough enough, i guess is my point.

[Holmes_Fans]

and he's not clutch.

Yet, he is the 3rd most clutch player in the league

http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

[mavs>spurs2]

After the 2006 series with the Spurs my opinion of Dirk was pretty sky high. He was amazing in that series. However after the finals it was a little less as he was not nearly as clutch and i felt made bad decisions. His play against the Warriors though last year really hurt my opinion of him. That game 6 at GS, he played scared. HE was not calling for the ball at all, did not try to get his guys back into it, he looked like he wanted to be anywhere else but in that game. I don't feel he is much of a leader Dirk, not when it really matters. Don't feel he is mentally tough enough, i guess is my point.

I agree he can be soft at times, but not overall and he's definately not a choker. 90% of games he steps up when it matters.

[DAF86]

Yet, he is the 3rd most clutch player in the league

http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Making more points doesn't mean "more clutch". Take a look at his FG and 3pt % not very eye popping in my opinion.

[DieMrBond]

Only player on the Mavs i like (or can stand).

Guy is gratious, funny, a good human being (as far as we know) and is a quality ball player. Anyone ever seen the episode of him on punk'd?

Classy guy. Cant say the same for the rest of the Mavs.

[JoeTait75]

AFAIC the lack of leadership in that Golden State series is 100 percent on Avery. When he changed his lineup prior to Game One it was almost as if he was conceding that they couldn't beat the Warriors doing what they'd done all season. It was a devastating message to send to his team. I can't be too tough on any of the Mavericks players for that debacle. Avery Johnson put them in a position to fail.

[Findog]

AFAIC the lack of leadership in that Golden State series is 100 percent on Avery. When he changed his lineup prior to Game One it was almost as if he was conceding that they couldn't beat the Warriors doing what they'd done all season. It was a devastating message to send to his team. I can't be too tough on any of the Mavericks players for that debacle. Avery Johnson put them in a position to fail.

This guy gets it.

[Findog]

Everybody wants to harp on G6 of the Warrior series, and he sucked in that game. But he also helped the Mavs avoid elimination on their home floor by taking over at the end of G5. Is he clutch or a choker? Neither label really fits.

By the same token, there's a former MVP who sucked fucking ass in a pivotal game at home, and his team is about to get broomed the fuck out of the playoffs. His rep will remain intact however.

[Findog]

Dirk was awesome in the final two games of the Finals, he was matched by Wade, and it's not really his fault that he was called for a foul when his stomach collided with Wade's fist.

[endrity]

Last time you checked you checked wrong. Just because you don't know them that doesn't mean they're shit.
Ask wade, Lebron, Carmelo if they knew something 'bout Greece.

Last time I checked Germany's team plays in second divisions in Spain, and in the not so famous German league.

Argentinas players, as well as Greeks, play in Italian, Greek, and Spanish powerhouses who usually win their leagues and are top contenders for the Euroleague.

No, Argentina had no NBA players in 02 and 04 but the fact that a lot of them made it shows the talent they had. Germany's players could player forever in international tourmanets and I don't think Patrick Femerling is getting a call for the NBA. Guys like Papaloukas or Diamantidis (Greece) are unkown in the US but they are superstars in Europe, who have simply decided that they'd rather be that, than role players in the NBA.

Getting this amateur team to medal 3-4 times like Dirk has is just as convincing to me as leading an extremely talented roster to a gold medal.

p.s Please tell me how the Argentinians were all over Dirk in 02 if you remember. They pretty much said "we don't care who shoots the ball if it's not Dirk". The space some of the other guys had was amazing, yet they couldn't make them pay. Please remind me, who was MVP of that tournament??? And this is FIBA, where MVPs usually go the best player on a winning team.

p.s2 Pau better than Dirk???? When Dirk singlehandedly killed a Spanish team in 05 that had 5 NBA players in them, that pretty much decided the argument. As well as Spain winning gold WITHOUT him in the final game.

[endrity]

Everybody wants to harp on G6 of the Warrior series, and he sucked in that game. But he also helped the Mavs avoid elimination on their home floor by taking over at the end of G5. Is he clutch or a choker? Neither label really fits.

By the same token, there's a former MVP who sucked fucking ass in a pivotal game at home, and his team is about to get broomed the fuck out of the playoffs. His rep will remain intact however.

Also, didn't another great player fail to show up in the second half of game 7 a couple of years ago (WC, round 1, 06 playoffs). I heard some critique, but still his rep is intact.

And please for the love of God, people gotta go back and look at the Finals in 06. Dirk was really good. How can you get down on him after what he did at the end of Game 5 where he produced TWO amazing clutch plays only to be outdone by free throws at the other end. How can you get down on him for an amazing game 6 (smth like 29 points, 17rebs). This is assanine at best.

[DAF86]

p.s Please tell me how the Argentinians were all over Dirk in 02 if you remember. They pretty much said "we don't care who shoots the ball if it's not Dirk". The space some of the other guys had was amazing, yet they couldn't make them pay.

Now you're just lying. The thing I most remember about that game (besides Manu's injury) was Wolkowski one on one defense on Dirk that allowed the other players to stay with their men, which it was huge, 'cause that German team had the reputation of making you pay when you double Nowitzki.


Please remind me, who was MVP of that tournament??? And this is FIBA, where MVPs usually go the best player on a winning team.

He just won it 'cause Manu got injured, so he couldn't play the final and obviusly Argentina lost. Ginobili'd had been the MVP of that tournament if it wasn't for the injury.


p.s2 Pau better than Dirk???? When Dirk singlehandedly killed a Spanish team in 05 that had 5 NBA players in them, that pretty much decided the argument. As well as Spain winning gold WITHOUT him in the final game.

Yeah I'm sure that one single game decides the argument.
Besides you're who brought Pau into the discussion if you want to place the Spaniard as the 2nd best player in international 'ships you should put him above Dirk not Manu.

[MONTENEGRINO]

If I could pick a player on an NBA team between:

Dirk
Manu
Tony Parker
TMac
Nash
Matrix
Pau
CP3
Boozer
Peja
Carmelo
DWade

I'd take Dirk
Me too. Dirk is better than any of those guys. Even Manu.

[JK2]

Getting this amateur team to medal 3-4 times like Dirk has is just as convincing to me as leading an extremely talented roster to a gold medal.
I second that. did you know that 3 players of the German starting five play for the same team and had a record of 2-12 in the Euroleague? and these 3 include Okulaja who is by far the second best player on the German national team. that pretty much sums up the talent Germany has.

[endrity]

Now you're just lying. The thing I most remember about that game (besides Manu's injury) was Wolkowski one on one defense on Dirk that allowed the other players to stay with their men, which it was huge, 'cause that German team had the reputation of making you pay when you double Nowitzki.



He just won it 'cause Manu got injured, so he couldn't play the final and obviusly Argentina lost. Ginobili'd had been the MVP of that tournament if it wasn't for the injury.



Yeah I'm sure that one single game decides the argument.
Besides you're who brought Pau into the discussion if you want to place the Spaniard as the 2nd best player in international 'ships you should put him above Dirk not Manu.

I am pretty sure I remember Oberto doubling on him very often.

Yet beside that MVP Dirk also has two from Euro championships, and statswise he was dominant in the WC02.

I brought Pau in the conversation, because if you base everything on trophies won Spain has been just as good, and they have a track record of beating Argentina something like 10 straight times. However neither he, nor Manu come close to reaching the level of greatness Dirk has displayed with the German team. Again to take a group of amateurs on your back, and to make them medal 3 times is as great as an achivement as you can ask.

[endrity]

I second that. did you know that 3 players of the German starting five play for the same team and had a record of 2-12 in the Euroleague? and these 3 include Okulaja who is by far the second best player on the German national team. that pretty much sums up the talent Germany has.

I don't remember who it is, either Pesic or Demirel, played in the SECOND league in Spain!!!! That's the level of talent Dirk has to deal with.

[DAF86]

However neither he, nor Manu come close to reaching the level of greatness Dirk has displayed with the German team.

Of course Dirk's gonna have better numbers he takes like 50% of Germany's shots. Manu'd have those numbers if he'd put up so many shots.
What defines greatness is the capacity of always elevate your game when your team most needs it.
If you want to see greatness, go check the two games that Manu played against U.S. (when Argentina needed him most).
Dirk doesn't do these kind of things, he can have a good game, a normal game or a bad game but you never've the certainty that he'll show up when you need him.

[endrity]

Of course Dirk's gonna have better numbers he takes like 50% of Germany's shots. Manu'd have those numbers if he'd put up so many shots.
What defines greatness is the capacity of always elevate your game when your team most needs it.
If you want to see greatness, go check the two games that Manu played against U.S. (when Argentina needed him most).
Dirk doesn't do these kind of things, he can have a good game, a normal game or a bad game but you never've the certainty that he'll show up when you need him.

That's USA, ESPN, BS. That somehow only winning it all matters. If you really think Manu could have won with the team Dirk has you are simpy silly and blind.

Dirk beat Spain all by himself, he beat Russia all by himself, he beat France all by himself, he came within a 3point heave from midcourt from Iverson from beating the US. Dirk has many memorable games against top level competitions so don't bring that in here. I could just as well say where was Manu in 06 against Spain, but that's dumb. You win and lose as a team. And Argentina's roster is full on NBA talent guys, Germany as I have said many times has amateurs on their roster.

[DAF86]

That's USA, ESPN, BS. That somehow only winning it all matters. If you really think Manu could have won with the team Dirk has you are simpy silly and blind.

I don't know if Manu'd have won with the German team most probably not. But I'm sure that Argentina wouldn't have had the same success with Dirk instead of Manu ('cause again what's made of this Argie team a champion contender in every single tournament instead of just a good team that can't go further than quarters or semis is Manu's out of this planet games everytime Argentina goes to a match as an underdog)


Dirk beat Spain all by himself, he beat Russia all by himself, he beat France all by himself, he came within a 3point heave from midcourt from Iverson from beating the US. Dirk has many memorable games against top level competitions so don't bring that in here. I could just as well say where was Manu in 06 against Spain, but that's dumb. You win and lose as a team. And Argentina's roster is full on NBA talent guys, Germany as I have said many times has amateurs on their roster

Did you read what I said? I never said that Dirk always chokes in important matches I just said that he isn't that kind of player that you know will come through when you most need it. There are lots of do or die matches where he just didn't deliver.

And did you watch Argentina-Spain in 06? Manu was the reason we only lost by one. Spain-Argentina is just like Mavs-Spurs, Spain matchups perfectly with Argentina and before the world cup they were beating us by 20, 30 points everytime we faced them, but thanks to Manu we were one "open missed shot by Nocioni" away of winning that championship.

[endrity]

I don't know if Manu'd have won with the German team most probably not. But I'm sure that Argentina wouldn't have had the same success with Dirk instead of Manu ('cause again what's made of this Argie team a champion contender in every single tournament instead of just a good team that can't go further than quarters or semis is Manu's out of this planet games everytime Argentina goes to a match as an underdog)



Did you read what I said? I never said that Dirk always chokes in important matches I just said that he isn't that kind of player that you know will come through when you most need it. There are lots of do or die matches where he just didn't deliver.

And did you watch Argentina-Spain in 06? Manu was the reason we only lost by one. Spain-Argentina is just like Mavs-Spurs, Spain matchups perfectly with Argentina and before the world cup they were beating us by 20, 30 points everytime we faced them, but thanks to Manu we were one "open missed shot by Nocioni" away of winning that championship.

So what makes you think Dirk wouldn't have big games with Argentina since HE HAS HAD big games like these in the past as I mentioned, filled with amazing clutch shots too. For every Manu vs. Serbia in 06, there are two or three clutch shots by Dirk with the Germans.

And yeah I watched Argentia-Spain in 06, you lost cause your coach decided to foul. But I brought that example to show that just because your team doesn't always win your star player should not be blames, which is what appearently you are trying to hint at when you talk about Dirk.

It seems to me like most Spurs fans agree with this assesment as well, I think you should really open your eyes a lot more. I love Argentinian basketball, and football by the way, but you don't have to "defend" your boy against every argument.

[DAF86]

So what makes you think Dirk wouldn't have big games with Argentina since HE HAS HAD big games like these in the past as I mentioned, filled with amazing clutch shots too. For every Manu vs. Serbia in 06, there are two or three clutch shots by Dirk with the Germans.

And yeah I watched Argentia-Spain in 06, you lost cause your coach decided to foul. But I brought that example to show that just because your team doesn't always win your star player should not be blames, which is what appearently you are trying to hint at when you talk about Dirk.

It seems to me like most Spurs fans agree with this assesment as well, I think you should really open your eyes a lot more. I love Argentinian basketball, and football by the way, but you don't have to "defend" your boy against every argument.

Don't change the point of the discussion I'm not defending my "boys" (you're not going to hear me say that Oberto is better than Dirk) I'm just saying what I think Manu means as a basketball player. A lot of people tend to underrate Manu 'cause he doesn't take 20/25 shots per game therefore his scoring avg. doesn't show how good he really is.
But he's a guy that has been a crucial piece of every team he played for and with all of those teams he's Championships to prove just how important he is.
Let me ask you this? do you think that he's the luckiest man ever, or that he actually had something to do with his teams success through all these years?

I like Manu, you like Dirk but like I said earlier in this thread, Manu can retire today and he'll be a lock for the HOF. If Dirk'd retire today I'm not sure he will make the HOF. So the unbiased thoughts reveal that Manu is better than Dirk (at least for now) and that's all I'm saying.

[endrity]

Don't change the point of the discussion I'm not defending my "boys" (you're not going to hear me say that Oberto is better than Dirk) I'm just saying what I think Manu means as a basketball player. A lot of people tend to underrate Manu 'cause he doesn't take 20/25 shots per game therefore his scoring avg. doesn't show how good he really is.
But he's a guy that has been a crucial piece of every team he played for and with all of those teams he's Championships to prove just how important he is.
Let me ask you this? do you think that he's the luckiest man ever, or that he actually had something to do with his teams success through all these years?

I like Manu, you like Dirk but like I said earlier in this thread, Manu can retire today and he'll be a lock for the HOF. If Dirk'd retire today I'm not sure he will make the HOF. So the unbiased thoughts reveal that Manu is better than Dirk (at least for now) and that's all I'm saying.

Dirk is an MVP in the NBA, and WC and EuroChamps. He is a dead lock for the Hall of Fame. Just as Manu.

No I don't think Manu is just lucky, also there is a little bit of it when it comes to being drafted 57th and being part of one of the elite teams of the NBA. He is a strong part of the teams he won with. But he is not the single reason. First there is this guy named Duncan. Second, the Argentinians have always been known for having a great team and moving well without the ball. They never were a team that just gave the ball to Manu and let him go to work. Again, I think Manu is a superstar in the NBA, a great player. But Dirk has 3 consecutive First team NBA selections, an MVP, and the lone leader of his team. The simple fact that someone can say that Manu is a better player makes him underappreciated, which is the point of the thread.

I am done!!!

[DAF86]

Dirk is an MVP in the NBA, and WC and EuroChamps. He is a dead lock for the Hall of Fame. Just as Manu.

No I don't think Manu is just lucky, also there is a little bit of it when it comes to being drafted 57th and being part of one of the elite teams of the NBA. He is a strong part of the teams he won with. But he is not the single reason. First there is this guy named Duncan. Second, the Argentinians have always been known for having a great team and moving well without the ball. They never were a team that just gave the ball to Manu and let him go to work. Again, I think Manu is a superstar in the NBA, a great player. But Dirk has 3 consecutive First team NBA selections, an MVP, and the lone leader of his team. The simple fact that someone can say that Manu is a better player makes him underappreciated, which is the point of the thread.

I am done!!!

And I'll say that the simple fact that you can't even consider that someone can say that Manu is a better player than Dirk makes Manu underappreciated, which is my point.

And now I am done!!! :lol (I wasn't going to let you have the last word).

[stretch]

And I'll say that the simple fact that you can't even consider that someone can say that Manu is a better player than Dirk makes Manu underappreciated, which is my point.

And now I am done!!! :lol (I wasn't going to let you have the last word).

Your arguments are a bunch of weak homer garbage.

Fail.

[DAF86]

Your arguments are a bunch of weak homer garbage.

Fail.

3 NBA rings, gold medal (MVP), euroleague (MVP), Italian leagues (MVP's), lots of other 'ships and individual awards that I honestly can't remember ('cause there're too many :p:) and a future HOF.

Yeah that's a bunch of weak homer garbage.

[dirk4mvp]

Let's just end it at something people with a lick of sense can agree on. Dirk is better than Manu.

[JK2]

Dirk would have won a ton of different titles if he played with Duncan and if he had to play in Europe till his mid twenties. :lol oh by the way, how man Italian championships did Jordan win?

[Magic_Johnson]

there's only 3 better player than Dirk in the league : Duncan, Lebron, Kobe.
So yeah Dirk is underappreciated

[DAF86]

Dirk would have won a ton of different titles if he played with Duncan and if he had to play in Europe till his mid twenties. :lol oh by the way, how man Italian championships did Jordan win?

Oh yeah? And Manu would have won an MVP and the reputation of beign a choker if he got to the Mavs at the age of 19...and an olympic gold medal. :king

And if endrity can count Dirk's all Euro-cup teams, why can't I count a freaking Italian championship. (at least you can celebrate if you win one of this) :lol

[JK2]

what's the point in comparing a 7 time all star, MVP, 7 time All-NBA-teamer and franchise player to a player like Ginobili who won 3 rings because he had the chance to play with Tim Duncan?

[DAF86]

what's the point in comparing a 7 time all star, MVP, 7 time All-NBA-teamer and franchise player to a player like Ginobili who won 3 rings because he had the chance to play with Tim Duncan?

Really I'm tired of arguing 'bout this, if you think that Dirk is better than Manu that's fine with me but let me think that Manu is better than Dirk.

P.S: Go ask Dirk if he wouldn't want to change careers with Manu? :nutkick: Peace!

[JK2]

of course he would have loved to play with Duncan instead of the spares that he is surrounded with. and I am sure Duncan would have loved to win even more rings with Nowitzki.

[dirk4mvp]

of course he would have loved to play with Duncan instead of the spares that he is surrounded with. and I am sure Duncan would have loved to win even more rings with Nowitzki.

Dirk and Duncan would probably be going for a 6 or 7 peat this year.

[Findog]

Manu > Dirk?

:lol

[The Nba Is Rigged]

In my opinion Manu is great, I'm a big fan of his when he is not playing vs my team, he's a stud but if you think that Manu is better than Dirk then you must be a Blatant Homer or a Dirk Hater.

[sribb43]

In my opinion Manu is great, I'm a big fan of his when he is not playing vs my team, he's a stud but if you think that Manu is better than Dirk then you must be a Blatant Homer or a Dirk Hater.

I agree, Love Manu but time to take the homer glasses off

[DAF86]

Dirk and Duncan would probably be going for a 6 or 7 peat this year.

Yeah and Manu would be going for his third MVP in a row if he played for the Mavs. :rolleyes

The problem is that you see Manu as a 2nd or 3rd option that can't carry a team. But you forget that Manu's carried teams through all his life, and you're probably going to say that Europe isn't the same as the NBA and it's true but the differnce isn't as big as you guys think (the top teams in europe'd kick most of the NBA teams butts including the Denver Nuggetts :lol) and don't forget 'bout the two wins over a team full of NBA all-stars.
If Manu and Dirk switch places:

Would Dirk have more championships than Manu? probably yes.

Would Manu have better numbers than Dirk? probably yes.

Would you be saying that Manu's better than Dirk? HELL YEAH!!!

[dirk4mvp]

Would Manu have better numbers than Dirk? probably yes.

Would you be saying that Manu's better than Dirk? HELL YEAH!!!


no

no

[DAF86]

no

no

Just what I expect from these "unbiased" very objective Mavs fans some deep and thoughtful analysis. :tu

[JK2]

just in case you didn't realize, I'd like to remind you that there is not one Spurs fan besides you who claims Manu is better than Dirk.

[DAF86]

just in case you didn't realize, I'd like to remind you that there is not one Spurs fan besides you who claims Manu is better than Dirk.

The ones that have seen Manu through all his career, do claim that.

[dirk4mvp]

Just what I expect from these "unbiased" very objective Mavs fans some deep and thoughtful analysis. :tu


You're argument is too ridiculous to be taken serious anymore.

[DAF86]

You're argument is too ridiculous to be taken serious anymore.

Which one, the rings, the gold medal, the HOF?

[dirk4mvp]

Which one, the rings, the gold medal, the HOF?


The part about Manu being better than Dirk. I think you should start a poll.

[DAF86]

The part about Manu being better than Dirk. I think you should start a poll.

I don't know if you want to do that go check the results of who's the Spurs favorite player. But let's say you're right and the result says that Dirk's better. Then I should start bealiving that Dirk's better than Manu just because the majority say so?
Well if that's the case I'll start thinking that Dirk's a choker.

[dirk4mvp]

Making sense doesn't come easy for you does it?

[DAF86]

Making sense doesn't come easy for you does it?

I'm done with you, you didn't bring one single thought in the whole discussion you're just like: "no, no", "you should start a poll", "Dirk's better than Manu"... hmm WHY?

I didn't just say Manu's better than Dirk, I said why I think Manu's better than Dirk and I displayed (in my opinion) some very strong points. You can agree or disagree but you can't say I didn't make sense.

[nsrammstein]

Horry has like 5 NBA rings I would take him over Duncan any day that ends with Y

[Findog]

Michael Doleac and Antoine Walker have rings and Dirk doesn't.

Doleac > Dirk.

Walker > Dirk.

[DAF86]

Horry has like 5 NBA rings I would take him over Duncan any day that ends with Y

Horry has never carried a team.
I'm sure that if you dig deeper you'd find another way of defending your case without trying to make fun of what I said.

[Findog]

Horry has never carried a team.
I'm sure that if you dig deeper you'd find another way of defending your case without trying to make fun of what I said.

Manu has never carried the Spurs in lieu of Duncan. Nobody here cares about FIBA play, the rules are different, and if they were played under NBA rules, the US would slaughter everybody.

Dirk > Manu. Ask your fellow Spurs fans what they think. The only biased homer here is you.

[DAF86]

Manu has never carried the Spurs in lieu of Duncan. Nobody here cares about FIBA play, the rules are different, and if they were played under NBA rules, the US would slaughter everybody.

Dirk > Manu. Ask your fellow Spurs fans what they think. The only biased homer here is you.

OK I'm done, I'm tired of saying the same things over an over again. I thought you're a little more reasonable. Bye.

[nsrammstein]

Horry has never carried a team.
I'm sure that if you dig deeper you'd find another way of defending your case without trying to make fun of what I said.

Horry was a huge part in the rockets back to back ships of the mid 90's, just like manu is an important player for the spurs but we all know that manu and horry were not the the franchise players that carried their teams to the finals it was olajuwon and right now its duncan. Horry has won 5 rings in his career and he has hit huge shots, manu only has 3 so going by your totally unbiased logic, Horry >>> duncan

[Findog]

OK I'm done, I'm tired of saying the same things over an over again. I thought you're a little more reasonable. Bye.

If you want to argue that Manu is a great player and Argentina and the Spurs have been more successful than Germany and the Dallas Mavericks, you'll get no argument from me. If you think Manu is a better player than Dirk and would be taken over him in a pickup game or a draft, sorry, but you're the one with the unreasonable opinion.

[endrity]

there's only 3 better player than Dirk in the league : Duncan, Lebron, Kobe.
So yeah Dirk is underappreciated

:toast

my thoughts exactly

[DAF86]

Horry was a huge part in the rockets back to back ships of the mid 90's, just like manu is an important player for the spurs but we all know that manu and horry were not the the franchise players that carried their teams to the finals it was olajuwon and right now its duncan. Horry has won 5 rings in his career and he has hit huge shots, manu only has 3 so going by your totally unbiased logic, Horry >>> duncan

That's not my logic, In my opinion Lebron is better than Manu, and he doesn't have any championships.

Think about it, who's the blind homer the guy that thinks that (with the way the things tourned out: Dirk with the Mavs and a worst national team - Manu with Duncan and a better national team) Manu's better than Dirk but still accepts that if things were different Dirk'd be better or the guy that under no circumstance accepts that there could be one person in the world that honestly bealives that Manu'd be better than Dirk.?

[Shank]

DAF86 - If you have to keep coming up with new tidbits or re-wording your original argument, odds are good it isn't a good argument to begin with.

[Stabbin' Cabin]

Dirk on the Pistons would be absolutely amazing. They'd need an ambulance on the sidelines for all the choking.

[Findog]

Dirk on the Pistons would be absolutely amazing. They'd need an ambulance on the sidelines for all the choking.


How bout that Phoenix Sunset?

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Dirk on the Pistons would be absolutely amazing. They'd need an ambulance on the sidelines for all the choking.

Vintage Phoenix suns basketball = http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ySJMkMHsJc

[The Franchise]

Yes!!!

[Stabbin' Cabin]

Vintage Phoenix suns basketball = http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ySJMkMHsJc

Do you really want to go there? You are aware that your team's history rivals that of the Clippers, right?

[Udrihlooms]

Much ado about nothing.

For crying out loud, Manu and Dirk can't really be compared with each other. Dirk is a franchise player who's cursed to forever play with a shitty teams and gimmick coaches, hence zero ring, the choker tag. Manu is just a back-up to somebody who happens to be the greatest PF in the history of the game (yes Fu)k Malone!).

Timmy >>>>> Dirk >>>>> Manu.

Fin. End of story.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe > Timmy (he is a center btw) >>>> bunch of players > Dirk > Manu

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Kobe > Timmy (he is a center btw) >>>> bunch of players > Dirk > Manu

Kobe is a great great player but if I was drafting one to build around it would be Tim. So hard to find a gifted Big Like Tim.

[Findog]

Kobe is a great great player but if I was drafting one to build around it would be Tim. So hard to find a gifted Big Like Tim.

You're arguing with a Laker troll.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

You're arguing with a Laker troll.

My bad. :depressed

[Tacker]

Dirk is a choker

[Ghazi]

Manu > Dirk

Put Manu on the German NT in place of Dirk and they would've gotten a medal in 2008.

-El fucking Nono

[ElNono]

Manu > Dirk


Who cares? If he's so good he can take a bunch of unknowns, beat Team USA and win gold all by himself. That's what Ginobili did, and I'll be the first to tell you that Dirk is more talented than Manu.
However, he's soft and he can't lead... thus, he can't win.


Put Manu on the German NT in place of Dirk and they would've gotten a medal in 2008.

-El fucking Nono

They probably would have. Manu got another one in '08 playing with basically Scola... Oberto was done, Nocioni was injured, Delfino is not even in the NBA anymore, and a Prigioni never made it... Shit, he got injured in the semis against Team USA, and *STILL* got a medal...

Meanwhile, Dirk was back in Germany because he couldn't get his team out of the first round... :lmao

[dirk4mvp]

I wonder if anyone actually values el nono's opinion.

[ElNono]

I wonder if anyone actually values el nono's opinion.

You care enough to wonder

[dirk4mvp]

I'm also worried about the overall intelligence of the world, which you are bringing down.

[ElNono]

I'm also worried about the overall intelligence of the world, which you are bringing down.

Is that how you save the world? Posting in Spurstalk? GTFO

[dirk4mvp]

Dude, awesome comeback!

[ElNono]

Dude, awesome comeback!

You started the weak ass responses... I'm just par for the course...

[Ghazi]

They probably would have. Manu got another one in '08 playing with basically Scola... Oberto was done, Nocioni was injured, Delfino is not even in the NBA anymore, and a Prigioni never made it... Shit, he got injured in the semis against Team USA, and *STILL* got a medal...

Meanwhile, Dirk was back in Germany because he couldn't get his team out of the first round... :lmao


Germany went 1-4 in the Olympics and lost to the U.S. by 49, to Greece by 23, to Spain by 13... yeahhhh, I don't think Manu would've won a medal in place of Dirk.

[dirk4mvp]

You thought enough of it to respond.

[dirk4mvp]

Germany went 1-4 in the Olympics and lost to the U.S. by 49, to Greece by 23, to Spain by 13... yeahhhh, I don't think Manu would've won a medal in place of Dirk.


Manu sucks.

[ElNono]

Germany went 1-4 in the Olympics and lost to the U.S. by 49, to Greece by 23, to Spain by 13... yeahhhh, I don't think Manu would've won a medal in place of Dirk.

Please, don't forget to mention that they lost to fucking Yao's China 59-55, and they would have moved on if they won that game. And Dirk played with Kaman on his team, basically equaling Ginobili playing with Scola.

Argentina beat Greece by 2 in the elimination round, and the recap for that game reads: "Manu Ginobili scored a game-high 24 points, including the final seven for Argentina, which has won five in a row after losing its Olympic opener against Lithuania."

[Ghazi]

I didn't watch the games but looking at the box score Dirk had 24/17 against China. pretty good.

In any case, even if they do win that game they likely get crushed by Lithuania in the Quarterfinals.

Are you really trying to imply Argentina and fucking Germany are equivalent as far as basketball talent?

[mogrovejo]

Very probably. I'd also argue his teammates have been wildly overappreciated.

[ElNono]

Are you really trying to imply Argentina and fucking Germany are equivalent as far as basketball talent?

With Nocioni injured, sure. This Argentina team was nowhere near the same that won it all in 2004. Coach was new and average at best, the PG was a walking disaster, Hermann didn't go, Nocioni had a busted knee. It was basically Ginobili, Scola and whatever we could get from Delfino. Oberto was done, just like now in the Spurs. As far as NBA talent, it was Gino and Scola.
Germany had Dirk and Kaman, who is a pretty good center with a post game.
The difference is that Argentina is a physical team. They play though to overcome what they lack in talent.
That's something a team lead by Nowitzki is never going to have. He sets the tone being the charmin' softie he is.

[mogrovejo]

You don't know a lot about international basketball, do you? The 15th best Argentinian would easily be a top 4 player for Germany. And I mean really, really easily. Make it a top 3, I was overrating Hamann by a lot.

[ElNono]

You don't know a lot about international basketball, do you? The 15th best Argentinian would easily be a top 4 player for Germany. And I mean really, really easily.

I was born in Argentina and watch my fair share of international ball, including Germany and Argentina. Talent-wise, *THIS* Argentina team that played in the Olympics was pretty bad (the exceptions being Manu and Scola). Argentina was incredibly good when the coach was Magnano, the PG was Sanchez and Oberto was still serviceable. Delfino showed promise, but sometimes you have to wonder what's on his head.
The day Manu retires from the Argentina national team, they're done. No more medals or anything for a long, long while.

[de Soto]

Dirk is in the wrong team. One that puts emphasis on his shortcomings and fails to highlight his strengths. In a year of two, Dirk will he a good addition to the Spurs bench where he'll be able to really contribute.

[Ghazi]

How the fuck did the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 when the Spurs had the THREE best players on the court? :lol :lol

[mogrovejo]

I was born in Argentina and watch my fair share of international ball, including Germany and Argentina. Talent-wise, *THIS* Argentina team that played in the Olympics was pretty bad (the exceptions being Manu and Scola). Argentina was incredibly good when the coach was Magnano, the PG was Sanchez and Oberto was still serviceable. Delfino showed promise, but sometimes you have to wonder what's on his head.
The day Manu retires from the Argentina national team, they're done. No more medals or anything for a long, long while.

Pablo Quinteros is twice as good as any German guard. I mean, some German players are barely good enough to play basketball as a job, full-time.

[ElNono]

Pablo Quinteros is twice as good as any German guard. I mean, some German players are barely good enough to play basketball as a job, full-time.

Paolo is a good player. Unfortunately, I think he's undersized to make it to the NBA. One thing that Argentina is years away from Germany is team play. Not necessarily individual talent, but the cohesiveness as a team. Some guys have been playing together from a long time.

[ElNono]

How the fuck did the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 when the Spurs had the THREE best players on the court? :lol :lol

Well, our best player had planar fasciitis.
But besides that, Dallas played serious defense. The coach at that time knew how to make them scramble, and even if they squeaked by us, they were the better team that series. :toast

[Gummi Clutch]

Dirk is a choker/ Pussy

10 Years from now People will Hear Tim Duncan and speak in awe, while guys like T-Mac and Dirk won't be anywhere near the convo

[sook]

Dirk is a choker/ Pussy

10 Years from now People will Hear Tim Duncan and speak in awe, while guys like T-Mac and Dirk won't be anywhere near the convo

Dirk won MVP in 07

[Roxsfan]

Dude, awesome comeback!

just curious, are you gay?

Why do you have BP ava and c. panel BP pic?

[dirk4mvp]

just curious, are you gay?

Why do you have BP ava and c. panel BP pic?

No, but if a poster here was gay would you care? Are you a homophobe?

[mogrovejo]

Are you a homophobe?

No, but if a poster here was a homophobe would you care?

[dirk4mvp]

No, but if a poster here was a homophobe would you care?

If the homophobe was a dirty messican. But that stems more from my discrimination of dirty messicans.

[dirk4mvp]

We all still hate you regardless.

sons when are you going to host again?

[IronMexican]

Paige was gonna host again today but Realli kicked him off.

I miss when Kellerman hosted the Horn. It sucks his brother died.

[Roxsfan]

No, but if a poster here was gay would you care? Are you a homophobe?

Little boy, what I'm trying to figure out is do you want to fuck him or do you just think he's cool:flag:

[dirk4mvp]

Little boy, what I'm trying to figure out is do you want to fuck him or do you just think he's cool:flag:



I heard that ron artest album was a hot pile of shit.

[monosylab1k]

Little boy, what I'm trying to figure out is do you want to fuck him or do you just think he's cool:flag:

Why are you so obsessed with another man's sexuality?

[Roxsfan]

Why are you so obsessed with another man's sexuality?

So asking ONE question makes me obsessed about the topic? I clicked on his stat page and saw a SECOND brad p. pic in addition to his ava b. p. pic and thus I asked the question. thx for your concern.

[Roxsfan]

I heard that ron artest album was a hot pile of shit.

good for you.

[monosylab1k]

So asking ONE question makes me obsessed about the topic?

If you want to tell us all that you're gay, go ahead. Nobody cares, gay boy.

[Roxsfan]

If you want to tell us all that you're gay, go ahead. Nobody cares, gay boy.

No, I'm not gay. Thx for your concern.


:flag:

[angelbelow]

dirk is actually one of my favorite players. i love many aspects about him when it comes to the game of basketball.

[mavs>spurs2]

No, I'm not gay. Thx for your concern.


:flag:

A flag that says "Go Spurs go?" Man, you really are gay. And in denial too. Get some help