Clinton Could Win Via Super Delegates, right?

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah - and she's getting them at such good rates compared to Obama its amazing no one is talking about this!!!!!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/politics/20080426_SUPERS_GRAPHIC/0426-web-SUPERS.gif

Numbers don't lie! This is going to the convention!

[MannyIsGod]

LOL

The best part is Obama beating her 4-3 AFTER the PA primary.

[SAGambler]

This is so screwed up that by the time the Democrats pick a nominee, McCain will be finishing up his first 2 years in the White House.

[PEP]

If Cankles ends up leading Nobama in overall popular vote total this should get really interesting.

[Nbadan]

Yeah...........................right..........



Pm5ElX9sOp4

[Nbadan]

Spinnslyvania....What's changed?

2cyQynd-5nI

The MSM has a vested interest in perpetuating the myth of a "race" since manufactured controversy and indignation is all the M$M does these days. They spend virtually no resources in the field actually reporting on important events, and no resources investigating issues in the public interest. It is much cheaper for them to just air a menagerie of blathering talking heads yelling at one another about matters of no practical consequence .

[ChumpDumper]

Only one guy was Turkish.

[Doc Jerome]

Superdelegates are moving to Sen. Obama slowly but surely. Even Hillary's fundraisers are jumping ship. The writing is on the wall, all she has to do is read it.

[boutons_]

Hillary's and Bill's little boat is sinking and no one can save it, not even continued references to badass Rev Wright.

It was said many weeks ago that Hillary would have to win ALL remaining primaries, and 65%-35%, and PA was not that, nor will the others be 65%-35% Hillary.

[some_user86]

She knows she is going down.

She just wants to take Obama with her. She's doing everything possible to sink his general election chances.

[smeagol]

So if this thing is so clear cut over, if she is so "down and out", why is she still fighting for it, why are prominente Democrats still coming out and supporting her?

It's just a simple question, manny, don't get all frustrated with me . . .

[some_user86]

The support she has now is the same support she has always had. She isn't gaining anyone and she isn't losing anyone. It's a stalemate, but he's ahead nationally.

[xrayzebra]

Well Dr. Dean, Chairman of the DNC says:


Dead Heat Changes Dems' Strategy
Obama Reaches Out to Blue-Collar Voters; Clinton Fires Up Offense
By JOHN HENDREN
WASHINGTON, April 27, 2008

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The head of the Democratic Party today declared the race for the party's presidential nomination a virtual dead heat.
Democrats worry that this long battle for a candidacy will hurt the party.

"This is essentially pretty close to a tie here," Howard Dean said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

That's good news for Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., but it's probably an unpleasant surprise for Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., whose narrow lead in delegates and the popular vote have allowed him to portray himself as the frontrunner, with the best claim to the Democratic presidential nomination. ............

And the "experts say"......To become the winner, analysts say, Obama has to reach out to the blue-collar vote. To that end, today the candidate ventured into the unfamiliar grounds of Fox News, where he has rarely appeared for an interview, admitting he needs to do more.

I say and still feel this race is wide open. The fat lady has even
started to sing. Stay turned for the finale that is to come.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Vote2008/story?id=4736271&page=1

[Don Quixote]

Yes, perhaps we have been misunderstood. I am not saying that Hillary's certainly going to nab the nomination. In fact, if I were to lay $$ on it, I'd say it's about 60-40 in favor of Obama right now, maybe 70-30. That said, this convention is going to be a load of fun. Second, the lack of a decisive winner from the D-side, and Obama's recently uncovered political associations with radicals, make him a weak candidate in the general. So ... at this point, I would say, get ready for a Pres. McCain.

[RandomGuy]

Yes, perhaps we have been misunderstood. I am not saying that Hillary's certainly going to nab the nomination. In fact, if I were to lay $$ on it, I'd say it's about 60-40 in favor of Obama right now, maybe 70-30. That said, this convention is going to be a load of fun. Second, the lack of a decisive winner from the D-side, and Obama's recently uncovered political associations with radicals, make him a weak candidate in the general. So ... at this point, I would say, get ready for a Pres. McCain.

That depends on the economy, and his ability to distance himself from Bush.

As much as Obama might be tied to Wright, McCain will be even more so tied to Bush.

My fern could beat Bush at this point, so I have no doubt how the electioneering will play out.

I still give the overall odds to the Democratic nominee, especially if the economy goes south before the election, as it likely will.

[RandomGuy]

Did you notice I said "Bush" a lot? ;)

Be ready to hear that word incessantly once the national campaigns start.

[Don Quixote]

I didn't know Bush was on the ballot.

[Don Quixote]

Yeah, perhaps I was being optimistic about McCain's chances. The base is not in love with him, but then again, conservatives tend not to get infatuated with politicians anyway. On the other hand, McCain hasn't exactly been in Bush's back pocket anyway -- he wants to close Gitmo, he reached across the aisle to reform campaign finance laws, he was one of the Gang of 14 that effectively blocked Bush's judicial nominees. So maybe Bush won't stick to McCain that much.

But the Democrats are in deep doo-doo themselves. They now have 2 divisive candidates racing each other to the left, and alot of centrist Democrats aren't going to follow them out there. I can see a significant number of middle-America Democrats defecting to McCain (war hero, socially conservative, and a decent guy), certainly more than the #s of conservative Republicans who'll vote for Ron Paul or Huck.

That said, I welcome an Obama candidacy. Really. And I hope he brings his preacher with him everywhere.

[ChumpDumper]

conservatives tend not to get infatuated with politicians anyway:lmao

[Don Quixote]

No, really. Conservatism is as much a mentality as it is a political philosophy -- we are not particularly interested in big sweeping social programs or anyone's vision of "change." Conservatism is, in its best form, a philosophy that basically wants govt to stay out of the way (in a very small nutshell). While there have been political icons of the Right (Goldwater, Reagan), they are far less numerous and less intense than the many messiahs and such that liberals tend to become infatuated with and lionize (e.g., JFK, RFK, McGovern, Carter (at first), Clinton, and now Obama.)

[boutons_]

so conservatism has been implemented in US govt about about as closely a Marx was in Russia?

"govt to stay out of the way"

so corps and super-rich can fuck everybody over in pursui to of insane salaries and capital gains.

[some_user86]

No, really. Conservatism is as much a mentality as it is a political philosophy -- we are not particularly interested in big sweeping social programs or anyone's vision of "change." Conservatism is, in its best form, a philosophy that basically wants govt to stay out of the way (in a very small nutshell). While there have been political icons of the Right (Goldwater, Reagan), they are far less numerous and less intense than the many messiahs and such that liberals tend to become infatuated with and lionize (e.g., JFK, RFK, McGovern, Carter (at first), Clinton, and now Obama.)

O, rly?

Conservatism is broken into two factions: social and fiscal conservatives. You'll hardly find a person who truly fits both definitions anymore. Generally, social conservatives are more than willing to bend their so-called fiscal principles if it means they have more right to intrude on other's lives. Fiscal conservatives are generally the same if it means they intrude less.

There used to be balance. And though the religious wing had become ever-increasingly important as the party base since the '60s, it wasn't until 2000 that they completely overtook my former party. The neo-cons have completely stolen their soul. My former party has abandoned it's principles and gone the route of more intrusions into people's lives. So I have abandoned it.

Ever since Bush has been in office, the Republican party has been the party of more intrusions, more ideology, more calls for social "change" (against homosexuals, scientists, women, non-religious, minorities, etc). They have gone the route of wasteful spending, then abrupt cuts, the more wasteful spending. The economy isn't a friggin' yo-yo that you take on a ride whenever "daddy" feels like spending some money. That and poor-management of the fiscal markets by Bernanke have led to a climate where, ultimately, Bush will go down as fondly remembered as Andrew Johnson.

There is division over the party over something so simple as immigration reform. Bush actually had the right take, but the fundies thwarted his efforts. It made economic sense with Bush's plan, but apparently we are trying to protect jobs that no one wants. Or are the fundies afraid of the brown Mexican men bringing their Catholic faiths and their unfamiliar traditions over to their God-given land? Oh, yeah, don't forget about the children! And terrorists!

On the other side, we have two candidates ready to abandon all principles of free trade to get a few votes. Thank god neither of them are serious about it.

It's so friggin' frustrating to see not one economically competent candidate. It's so mind-boggling that our two great parties have drifted so far from sound economic principles that they aren't willing to use their full tools at their disposal to balance the budget, reduce the national debt, and create a principally-sound economy, all because they fear what their base might say (yes that means doing everything within your power ranging from cutting departments, services, and costs to applying appropriate taxes to the capable social strata). It's so aggravating that the party of less intrusion is all about the intrusions now.

How dare you call yourself a conservative? You aren't a conservative. You're just another religious lackey, ready to follow the party-line so long as they keep them gays, atheists, and Mexicans away from you. You and your ilk are destroying my country after having destroyed my party.

[Don Quixote]

Wow.

Boutons may yet have some competition.

[some_user86]

Wow.

Boutons may yet have some competition.

Lame.

You can come up with an insult better than that if you feel too unintelligent to debate the merits of my comments.

[boutons_]

Paul Abrams, HuffPo

Bill Clinton Makes the Strongest Argument AGAINST Hillary's Nomination


Posted April 29, 2008 | 02:18 AM (EST)


In this strangest of political environments, where the exigencies of the moment supersede longer-term considerations, Bill Clinton has made the strongest case AGAINST the nomination of Hillary Clinton.

Remember a few weeks ago when Bill Clinton was telling everyone to "cool it," that Hillary's continuance in the race would have no impact on the November election? Remember the example he used?

Bill Clinton reminded us that he himself was in 3rd place, behind both HW Bush, and Ross Perot, going into the convention and yet he won. [Of course, he neglected to mention that the party with a convention fight has always lost, and that no one was arguing that he, who had won the delegates, ought not be nominated.]

From now until the convention -- and, do not be deluded, Hillary is not going to get out of the race until someone else gets the majority of the votes at the convention -- the Clintons will be arguing that the party needs to pick the strongest candidate, and will refer to polling evidence against McCain when it favors them, and 'logical' arguments when the polling evidence does not favor them, that Hillary is the stronger candidate.

But, Bill told us that going into the 1992 convention he was in third place, that the party unites behind the nominee and, in this political climate, that nominee will win.

The inexorable conclusion is that there is no basis for a determination about who might win the general election.

At least that is what he said a few weeks ago.

That means that the primaries are conducted to determine whom the voters want to be the nominee, period. Not, as the Clintons suggest, to construct an argument for whom should be nominated.

As indicated in "A Primal Scream to Superdelegates: Don't Fiddle While the Progressive Movement Burns, There is No Reason to Delay" (March 14, 2008) and "Superdelegates, How About Some Leadership"? (March 21, 2008), the Clintons have lost the elected delegates, they have lost the number of contests, and almost certainly will lose the popular vote. Moreover, the only measure of victory written into party rules is the delegate count.

The only case left is to the superdelegates, and the Clintons' only argument is 'electability', a position Bill Clinton's logic denies. :rollin

As indicated in "The Absurd Arguments of Both (Clinton & Obama) Campaigns" (February 15, 2008), the suggestion that Obama can expand the party because he has won states Democrats usually do not win, or that Hillary wins the states Democrats need to win -- based upon who won which state against the other -- is ridiculous. [It is a measure of how pathetic the MSM is that they discuss this nonsense interminably.]

Hillary herself said at the Philadelphia debate that Barack was electable. Indeed, Ed Rendell, the Hillary campaign chair in Pennsylvania, and Governor of that state, said more emphatically that Barack would carry Pennsylvania in the general election.

Thus, while Barack's numbers against McCain may fall due to the continued internecine warfare that Hillary will continue right through to the convention, Bill Clinton has said that it does not matter, and points to himself as evidence to the contrary.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/bill-clinton-makes-the-st_b_99109.html?view=print

[George Gervin's Afro]

Paul Abrams, HuffPo

Bill Clinton Makes the Strongest Argument AGAINST Hillary's Nomination


Posted April 29, 2008 | 02:18 AM (EST)


In this strangest of political environments, where the exigencies of the moment supersede longer-term considerations, Bill Clinton has made the strongest case AGAINST the nomination of Hillary Clinton.

Remember a few weeks ago when Bill Clinton was telling everyone to "cool it," that Hillary's continuance in the race would have no impact on the November election? Remember the example he used?

Bill Clinton reminded us that he himself was in 3rd place, behind both HW Bush, and Ross Perot, going into the convention and yet he won. [Of course, he neglected to mention that the party with a convention fight has always lost, and that no one was arguing that he, who had won the delegates, ought not be nominated.]

From now until the convention -- and, do not be deluded, Hillary is not going to get out of the race until someone else gets the majority of the votes at the convention -- the Clintons will be arguing that the party needs to pick the strongest candidate, and will refer to polling evidence against McCain when it favors them, and 'logical' arguments when the polling evidence does not favor them, that Hillary is the stronger candidate.

But, Bill told us that going into the 1992 convention he was in third place, that the party unites behind the nominee and, in this political climate, that nominee will win.

The inexorable conclusion is that there is no basis for a determination about who might win the general election.

At least that is what he said a few weeks ago.

That means that the primaries are conducted to determine whom the voters want to be the nominee, period. Not, as the Clintons suggest, to construct an argument for whom should be nominated.

As indicated in "A Primal Scream to Superdelegates: Don't Fiddle While the Progressive Movement Burns, There is No Reason to Delay" (March 14, 2008) and "Superdelegates, How About Some Leadership"? (March 21, 2008), the Clintons have lost the elected delegates, they have lost the number of contests, and almost certainly will lose the popular vote. Moreover, the only measure of victory written into party rules is the delegate count.

The only case left is to the superdelegates, and the Clintons' only argument is 'electability', a position Bill Clinton's logic denies. :rollin

As indicated in "The Absurd Arguments of Both (Clinton & Obama) Campaigns" (February 15, 2008), the suggestion that Obama can expand the party because he has won states Democrats usually do not win, or that Hillary wins the states Democrats need to win -- based upon who won which state against the other -- is ridiculous. [It is a measure of how pathetic the MSM is that they discuss this nonsense interminably.]

Hillary herself said at the Philadelphia debate that Barack was electable. Indeed, Ed Rendell, the Hillary campaign chair in Pennsylvania, and Governor of that state, said more emphatically that Barack would carry Pennsylvania in the general election.

Thus, while Barack's numbers against McCain may fall due to the continued internecine warfare that Hillary will continue right through to the convention, Bill Clinton has said that it does not matter, and points to himself as evidence to the contrary.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/bill-clinton-makes-the-st_b_99109.html?view=print


Wait a minute.. yopu mean to tell me that the Huffington post site is in obama's corner? I have been to that site ONCE and was amazed to read 15 articles that bashed clinton and one that mildly disagreed with obama.. This is site is about as bad as TownHall.com...

[boutons_]

"Huffington post site is in obama's corner"

supporting Obama? the article was about Clinton exclusively. The writer is agreeing, with "Clinton '92", that the candidate who wins the delegates, as the rules say, is the nominee.

[George Gervin's Afro]

"Huffington post site is in obama's corner"

supporting Obama? the article was about Clinton exclusively. The writer is agreeing, with "Clinton '92", that the candidate who wins the delegates, as the rules say, is the nominee.

I was making a general statement about 90+% of the articles on the site being anti-clinton.. The article mentioned is another 'Clinton can't win so she should get out of the way' articles...

[MannyIsGod]

lol maybe because unlike Spurstalk they actually realize how bad the math is for her?

[JoeChalupa]

It can happen people. I'm tellin' ya.

[Instigator_]

Looks like Hilly picks up another one:

CNN) — Missouri Rep. Ike Skelton said Tuesday he will cast his superdelegate vote for Hillary Clinton.

In a statement released by the Clinton campaign, Skelton said he is supporting the New York senator because of "her support in rural America, her commitment to National Security, and her dedication to our men and women in uniform."

Skelton is chairman of the powerful House Armed Services Committee and has served in congress for over 30 years. His state narrowly voted for Barack Obama on February 5, though Clinton won 60 percent of his congressional district.

With Skelton's endorsement, Clinton now holds a 22 superdelegate lead over Obama, 259 to 237, according to CNN's estimate. More than 300 superdelegates have yet to make up their minds.

Skelton is the fourth superdelegate to endorse a candidate Tuesday. Earlier, North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley announced he was backing Clinton and Kentucky Rep. Ben Chandler and Iowa DNC member Richard Machacek announced they were supporting Obama.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/



Somebody, Manny or anyone else please explain to me why despite all the "math" in favor of Obama, superdelegates continue still to support hillary. This is at least the second or third one she has picked up in the last day or two. So Manny, tell me that knowing what the "inevitable" outcome is, they continue to pile up to support Hillary? If this thing was over like Manny and others like him say so convincingly, then why are the people who could make a difference appearing to not be convinced? Anyone?

[Don Quixote]

Denver, we have a problem!

[boutons_]

"superdelegates continue still to support hillary"

Did you see how the Clintons treated Richardson? Of course, Richardson could have been actually helping Hillary as the willing sacrificial lamb to scare/keep the other superdelagates to Hillary.

Hillary's superdelegates know they will see retribution from the Clintons if they switch or vote for Obama. Hillary is the establishment Dem candidate. She's $cultivating them and very probably threatening them.

[Don Quixote]

This is not to say, of course, that Obama WILL get shafted of that Hillary WILL somehow manage to wrest the nomination away from the Golden Child. In fact, my money would say it's about 60-40 Obama right now.

Either way, though, the Democrats are going to have a hard time wooing "centrist" voters in the general. And I could see alot of Obama's supporters not voting for Hillary in the general out of principle, and vice versa.

[smeagol]

Either way, though, the Democrats are going to have a hard time wooing "centrist" voters in the general. And I could see alot of Obama's supporters not voting for Hillary in the general out of principle, and vice versa.

:nope

You cannot say that here at ST . . .

[some_user86]

This is not to say, of course, that Obama WILL get shafted of that Hillary WILL somehow manage to wrest the nomination away from the Golden Child. In fact, my money would say it's about 60-40 Obama right now.

Either way, though, the Democrats are going to have a hard time wooing "centrist" voters in the general. And I could see alot of Obama's supporters not voting for Hillary in the general out of principle, and vice versa.

Probably true. The problem is, I think independent voters might sit out the general election altogether. McCain's biggest problem is that he has to gain two key constituencies, each without betraying the other. McCain needs to rally conservatives, and in order to do that, he needs to dispel his maverick reputation. McCain needs to keep the moderates, and in order to do that, he needs to preserve his maverick reputation. At this point, neither group trusts him much, and after the fallout from the Clinton-Obama implosion in Denver, this problem will present itself in a big way. Right now, McCain looks much better than the overexposure given to both Hillary and Barrack.

Not that it matters for me anyways. Texas will vote red, so I am planning on writing in my bird for president and my dog for vice-president. Maybe I'll get serious about in November and vote in my personal favorite, Ron Paul. I can still have a team to root for and do arm-chair analysis like the rest of you.

And I don't think I am alone in the general apathy that the election cycle has already started generating in me. Plenty other non-partisans are starting to not give a shit anymore who wins.

[Don Quixote]

:nope

You cannot say that here at ST . . .

Um ... sorry. Allow me to rephrase.

Obama is certain to win both the Democratic nomination and the Presidency. Not only that, but the heavens will open up and he will ascend into heaven upon his inauguration. Peace and prosperity, and change, will happen for all.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah well I think a pig will fly out of John McCains ass making him completely unelectable. Since we've both backed up our statements with exactly the same about of information and data, I guess they are both about the same likely hood of occurring.

You see Smeagol, its not that you're not allowed to say it, its that if you're going to spew bullshit maybe you should back it up with something that supports it?

[Don Quixote]

I see that Obama still has true believers out there. That's good.

Actually, however, I think I've said about as much as I want to say about Obama. Let's not beat up on him too much. Let's talk about the Clintons now. So what exactly is the case against them? It's been awhile, refresh my memory.

[peewee's lovechild]

(CNN) – Pennsylvania AFL-CIO president and superdelegate Bill George announced his support for Hillary Clinton Wednesday.

“Hillary Clinton has the strength and experience to jumpstart the economy and rebuild the middle class,” George said in a statement released by Clinton's presidential campaign. “Working families in Pennsylvania overwhelmingly favored her in last week’s primary, and I feel that she is our strongest candidate to carry Pennsylvania in November and win back the White House.”

George, a Democratic National Committee member since 1996, had been actively courted by Clinton and Democratic rival Barack Obama in advance of his state’s primary last week. Clinton and Obama both addressed the Pennsylvania AFL-CIO convention earlier this month. Clinton defeated Obama in Pennsylvania's April 22 primary.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i think she has a good shot now. NO HE CAN'T!!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

(CNN) – North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley formally endorsed Hillary Clinton's White House bid Tuesday, saying the New York senator "gets it."

"It's time for somebody to be in the White House who understands the challenges we face in this country," Easley said at a rally in Raleigh with Clinton at his side. "They are significant. I never ever thought the United States of America could get in as much trouble as we have over the last 7 or 8 years."

Easley, a popular two term governor who is unable to run for re-election because of term limits, also praised Clinton for her persistence.

"I've been accused of being persistent, and down right aggravating…but this lady right here makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy," Easley said.

The endorsement gives the New York senator a symbolic boost in the state she is trailing Barack Obama by double digits. Easley is particularly popular with white, working class voters — a constituency that has favored Clinton in other primary states. He is the second superdelegate from North Carolina to back Clinton. Six North Carolina superdelegates have endorsed Obama.

Easley is a former backer of John Edwards' White House bid.

A recent ARG poll shows Obama leading Clinton by 10 points in the state.

[MannyIsGod]

(CNN) – Pennsylvania AFL-CIO president and superdelegate Bill George announced his support for Hillary Clinton Wednesday.

“Hillary Clinton has the strength and experience to jumpstart the economy and rebuild the middle class,” George said in a statement released by Clinton's presidential campaign. “Working families in Pennsylvania overwhelmingly favored her in last week’s primary, and I feel that she is our strongest candidate to carry Pennsylvania in November and win back the White House.”

George, a Democratic National Committee member since 1996, had been actively courted by Clinton and Democratic rival Barack Obama in advance of his state’s primary last week. Clinton and Obama both addressed the Pennsylvania AFL-CIO convention earlier this month. Clinton defeated Obama in Pennsylvania's April 22 primary.

:lol

The best part about this? Obama has THREE today.

4-30-08 - Added Rep. Bruce Braley (IA) (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGCJlL) for Obama
- Added DNC (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/04/one_for_me_one.html)William George (PA) (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/04/one_for_me_one.html) for Clinton
- Added Rep. (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGCn2r)Baron Hill (IN) (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGCn2r) for Obama
- Added Rep. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9976.html)Lois Capps (CA) (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9976.html) for Obama


http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegate-list.html

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao @ that - seriously.

Here's some more recent history as well

On the 26th its 1 and 1. 2 - 0 for Obama on the 28th. Another split of 2-2 on the 29th.

So thats what, 8 - 4 Obama since the 26th? Thats fucking awesome ground that Clinton is gaining. I can see why we're calling this a tie.

4-26-08 - Added Kathy Sullivan (NH)# new NH add-on, for Clinton. Added DNC Charlene Fernandez (AZ) new AZ state vice-chair, for Obama.
4-28-08 - Added Sen. Jeff Bingaman (NM) for Obama.
- Added Fmr. DNC Chairman Paul Kirk (MA) for Obama. He endorsed a while ago but we never had a valid source.
4-29-08 - Added Gov. Mike Easley (NC) for Clinton
- Added DNC Richard Machacek (IA) for Obama.
- Added Rep. Ben Chandler (KY) for Obama
- Added Rep. Ike Skelton (MO) for Clinton

[MannyIsGod]

Why aren't you posting the Obama endorsements PeeWee? Why just the Clinton ones? How does one make up a deficit when the other party is getting more? That'd be a pretty sweet trick. Do the Clinton's have that one in the bag?

[MannyIsGod]

From top to bottom, from McCain down to the youthful campaign and party staffers who work nearly around the clock to get him elected, the working assumption seems to be that the Democratic contest is over and Obama has won.


After her Pennsylvania win last week, the RNC did not send a single e-mail focused on Clinton through Monday. At the same time, the committee blasted out 18 that attacked Obama.


“[Obama] is still is clearly the front-runner for the Democratic nomination,” notes GOP strategist Brian Jones, a former top aide on McCain’s campaign. “The math is still clearly in his favor, he leads in fundraising and has the energy in the party behind him. So it makes sense.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9964.html

Waiting for Don Quix to call the McCain campaign part of the Obama cult.

[peewee's lovechild]

Why aren't you posting the Obama endorsements PeeWee? Why just the Clinton ones? How does one make up a deficit when the other party is getting more? That'd be a pretty sweet trick. Do the Clinton's have that one in the bag?

I'm not posting them because everyone is pointing out at Hillary's so-called inability to get prominent SDs.

Well, she got the GOVERNOR of North Carolina, a state that Obama is supposed to win by a landslide.

So, have your fun, post all the ROFL smilies that you want, it doesn't change the fact that Hillary is still gaining momentum.

Oh, and by the way, there's a new referendum for the Michigan delegates.

[MannyIsGod]

No one said she wont' get super delegates. I've said all along she's not going to get ENOUGH. That lead just keeps dwindling. She's going to need to win them at more than 3:1 to win yet OBAMA is winning them at a 2:1 rate.

I guess you can say Clinton is building momentum if you want. She is gaining after all. Too bad Obama is gaining more.

[some_user86]

I'm not posting them because everyone is pointing out at Hillary's so-called inability to get prominent SDs.

Well, she got the GOVERNOR of North Carolina, a state that Obama is supposed to win by a landslide.

So, have your fun, post all the ROFL smilies that you want, it doesn't change the fact that Hillary is still gaining momentum.

Oh, and by the way, there's a new referendum for the Michigan delegates.

How is she gaining momentum in superdelegates if he is adding 1 or 2 more per day than her? I guess that's a new definition of political momentum I hadn't heard before.

[Don Quixote]

Waiting for Don Quix to call the McCain campaign part of the Obama cult.

Um, okay. Sure.

McCain believes in change. And he believes in the future. Yes we can.

[smeagol]

You see Smeagol, its not that you're not allowed to say it, its that if you're going to spew bullshit maybe you should back it up with something that supports it?

Link?

[peewee's lovechild]

How is she gaining momentum in superdelegates if he is adding 1 or 2 more per day than her? I guess that's a new definition of political momentum I hadn't heard before.

She's gaining momentum because she wasn't supposed to be winning any more primaries. She was done, apparently.

Everyone was calling the nomination for Obama.

Now, due to last weeks win, she's getting all sorts of NEW donations. Also, North Carolina's Governor endorsing her is HUGE.

As a matter of fact, according to the DrudgeReport and CNN, she's closing the gap on Obama's lead in North Carolina, something that was unthinkable just a few weeks back.

That's what I would call momentum.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Who the fuck said she wasn't going to win primaries? She's going to win some still.


Must be nice to make up shit.

[some_user86]

I will say this: Limbaugh is a moron.

If Hilary ends winning the nomination and there was any hint of a Limbaugh-effect, the conservatives will hate him forever. The Clintons are friggin' tenacious and their new campaign manager/style/machinery is brilliant. No way they let go of the general election prize if they get past the nomination. It doesn't matter how weak she looks compared to McCain right now or how divisive she is, I think the Clinton machinery is powerful enough to destroy McCain.

Wouldn't it have been cool to see the Clinton machinery against Bush's Rove machinery? This is like basketball match-ups for political nerds.

Regardless, it doesn't matter. If Hilary ends up winning, hopefully she'll listen to her husband, who is a bona fide economic junkie. And hopefully, her healthcare mandate nor her (and Obama's) desire to overturn FTAs survive through Congress.

[Nbadan]

Wouldn't it have been cool to see the Clinton machinery against Bush's Rove machinery? This is like basketball match-ups for political nerds.

http://files.blog-city.com/files/aa/2370/p/f/4_21_010305_bush_clinton.jpg

Errr...........they're batting for the same team....ask yourself, why isn't GHWB touring the world with Jimmy Carter or any other Democrat?

[Nbadan]

By AMIE PARNES & JOSEPHINE HEARN | 4/30/08 4:31 AM EST


Capitol Hill insiders say the battle for congressional superdelegates is over, and one Senate supporter of Barack Obama is hinting strongly that he has prevailed over Hillary Rodham Clinton.

While more than 80 Democrats in the House and Senate have yet to state their preferences in the race for the Democratic nomination, sources said Tuesday that most of them have already made up their minds and have told the campaigns where they stand.

“The majority of superdelegates I’ve talked to are committed, but it is a matter of timing,” said Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.). “They’re just preferring to make their decision public after the primaries are over. ... They would like someone else to act for them before they talk about it in the cold light of day.”

Obama currently holds an 18-13 lead among committed superdelegates in the Senate, while Clinton holds a 77-74 lead in the House. Asked which way the committed-but-unannounced superdelegates are leaning, McCaskill — who has endorsed Obama — said: “James Brown would say, ‘I Feel Good.’”

.....

McCaskill said that the campaigns have all but given up on lobbying her Senate colleagues because they know their minds are made up.

Clinton backer Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) acknowledged that the lobbying is no longer as aggressive as it once was. “I think there’s a different touch now,” he said. “We’re staying engaged. Right now, it’s about making sure everyone still feels loved and wanted.”

Montana Sen. Jon Tester — one of the Democrats who has yet to commit publicly — said the campaigns “haven’t applied much pressure” of late. “I haven’t heard much, and it’s been a few weeks,” he said.

“All the low-hanging fruit has already been picked,” said one Democratic Senate aide. “The rest are waiting to see who the winner is or are doing what’s in their best interests. Most of the people that are remaining just don’t want to pick the wrong side.”
Uncommitted superdelegates have many reasons for waiting to announce their support publicly, but chief among them is a desire to preserve their options should their favored candidate suddenly tank.

Some of the uncommitted superdelegates are in tenuous electoral situations themselves, and they fear that they might lose a reelection fight if they miscalculate the presidential race. Still, these delegates follow the contest with the same enthusiasm of committed delegates, and they want to let their chosen campaigns know of their support. They will often place a courtesy call to the opposing campaign, a move that helps preserve a relationship while also ensuring that they won’t be lobbied further.

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) said Tuesday that he plans to remain uncommitted because of the fight to seat the Michigan delegates. He insisted that he’s still trying to decide who has “the best chance of winning” in November and that he honestly doesn’t know the answer yet.

Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9968.html)

[RandomGuy]

Yeah - and she's getting them at such good rates compared to Obama its amazing no one is talking about this!!!!!

Numbers don't lie! This is going to the convention!

Obama closing in on Clinton's advantage among superdelegates


WASHINGTON - Barack Obama is closing in on Democratic presidential rival Hillary Rodham Clinton's advantage among superdelegates, building on his lead in the primary race even as he faces troubled times.
Party leaders are encouraging superdelegates to pick a side by late June to prevent the fight from going to the national convention in August, and it seems some are listening as the race enters its final five weeks of voting.

Chelsea Clinton got a superdelegate for her mom while campaigning in Puerto Rico on Wednesday, just as Obama press secretary Bill Burton sent out a statement announcing the support of Rep. Lois Capps. The statement didn't mention the personal connection — Capps is Burton's mother-in-law.

Clinton had a big jump start among superdelegates, many of whom have ties to the Clintons and backed her candidacy early on. But most of the superdelegates taking sides recently have gone for Obama, who has won more state contests.

Obama trails Clinton by just 20 superdelegates, 243-263, cutting her lead in half in less than two months. This week, he picked up seven delegates to her four.

The superdelegate chase is a key piece of good news for Obama in what has been a bad week. The Illinois senator is coming off a big loss in Pennsylvania, steeped in controversy surrounding his outspoken former pastor while Clinton fares better against Republican likely nominee John McCain in the latest Associated Press-Ipsos poll.

But the problems aren't stopping his ability to win support from superdelegates who are likely to cast the deciding votes in the Democratic race.

Rep. Bruce Braley of Iowa said he decided to endorse Obama even though his former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has been creating waves by making controversial statements and suggesting that Obama secretly agrees with him. Obama denounced Wright in a news conference Tuesday and said the pastor does not speak for him.

"That's been one of the most frustrating things about this prolonged campaign, is we seemed to have gotten away from the critical issues that started this campaign during the Iowa caucuses and now it's more about the side spectacle than the issues that voters really care about," Braley said. "I'm confident that he has taken this issue head-on. He has addressed it in a thoughtful and enlightened way."

Superdelegates are nearly 800 elected leaders and Democratic party officials who aren't bound by the outcome of state contests and can cast their ballot for any candidate at the national convention. They are especially valuable in this race since neither Clinton nor Obama can get enough delegates to win the nomination through the primaries and caucuses held across the country.

Obama now leads in the delegate count overall 1731.5 to 1597.5 for Clinton. A candidate needs 2,025 delegates to win the nomination. About 230 superdelegates remain undecided, and about 60 more will be selected at state party conventions and meetings throughout the spring.

Clinton had stalled in drawing their support as Obama won more states than she, but Clinton won Pennsylvania last week and has been able to announce a new supporter every day this week — two on Wednesday.

The Clinton campaign said Luisette Cabanas, vice chair of the Democratic Committee in Puerto Rico, came on board while the candidate's daughter Chelsea was campaigning on the island. Cabanas cited Clinton's policies, especially health care, as "the best by far of any candidate in history."

"Today I endorse Hillary Clinton for president because of her strong win in Pennsylvania," Cabanas said in a statement. "She has shown a firm conviction and the character needed to lead the nation."

Capps said it wasn't an easy decision to pick between Obama and Clinton. She has family ties to both candidates — Obama's spokesman is married to her daughter, Laura Burton Capps, who also worked in the Clinton White House.

Lois Capps filled the congressional seat held by her late husband, Walter Capps, when he died suddenly 10 years ago. Bill Clinton had campaigned for Walter Capps and presided over his congressional memorial service.

Capps said Hillary Clinton would be a great president and fill a dream for those who have fought for women's rights. But she said Obama's call for a change in Washington was the most important factor in winning her support.

"Walter once said that 'we are strongest as people when we are directed by that which unites us, rather than giving into the fears, suspicions, innuendoes and paranoias that divide,'" she said in a statement. "For years I have been waiting for a president that speaks to that vision. I believe Barack Obama may very well be that rare leader."

Two of the most important superdelegates to sign on this week come from the states that vote next — North Carolina and Indiana, which hold primaries on May 6 and are the largest states left to vote. Obama got the support of Rep. Baron Hill of Indiana, while Clinton won the backing of North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley even though Obama is expected to win the state.

I think plenty of people are talking about it.

[boutons_]

Here's one way that Clinton is "winning loyalty" of superdelegates:

Clinton: $2.3B in earmarks


Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) has requested nearly $2.3 billion in federal earmarks for 2009, almost three times the largest amount received by a single senator this year.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/clinton-2.3b-in-earmarks-2008-04-28.html

[Don Quixote]

Promises of earmarks now and to come should come as no surprise for either delegate.

I suspect promises of more federal $$ will speak more loudly than any lofty notions of "change," "experience," or "leadership."

[MannyIsGod]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080501/ap_on_el_pr/superdelegates

Well if she's not gaining them at least she's keeping the ones she's already gotten....

OOPS

Her lead in SD is down to 17. But sure, I'm sure her miracle turnaround is right around teh corner. After all, she's a Clinton and is just setting up the comeback.

[JoeChalupa]

I hope those reports are true.

[boutons_]

"DNC chairman under Bill Clinton: Unite behind Obama"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/01/clinton-era-dnc-chief-bac_n_99572.html

go away, bitch, it's over.

[peewee's lovechild]

(CNN) — The Democratic presidential race is tightening nationally, according to a new CNN average of several recent polls.

Obama's lead is now down to 1 point over Clinton nationwide, 45 percent to 44 percent, in CNN's "poll of polls." That margin is down 3 points from another CNN poll of polls conducted two days ago. In that analysis, Obama led Clinton 47 percent to 43 percent. The margin is also considerably lower than an April 18 poll of polls that showed Obama with an 11 point lead.

The poll of polls consists of three newly released national polls from Fox News/Opinion Dynamics, Gallup, and Newsweek. There is no margin of error on the poll of polls.

Both the Fox News poll and the Gallup poll were conducted partially after Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, made a fresh round of controversial comments earlier this week.

The Fox News poll also appears to show Obama no longer has an edge over Clinton among independent voters. In head-to-head match ups, presumptive Republican nominee John McCain wins independents by a 4 point margin over Clinton (42-38 percent) and by a 10 points over Obama (47 percent to 37 percent).

[Nbadan]

Doesn't matter what the polls say, that's media spin....Obama leads among delegates and the pool of superdelegates continues to fall 2-1 in his favor...



Texas superdelegate John Patrick endorsed Barack Obama today, citing his record of standing up for working families and opposing trade deals that fail to protect American workers.

``snip``
Patrick is a Democratic National Committee member, a 31 year member of the United Steelworkers (USW) as well as a Vice President of the Texas AFL/CIO. The endorsement brings the total number of superdelegates to endorse Barack Obama to 249. Barack is now 283 delegates away from securing the Democratic nomination.

Link (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGCSTQ)

At this rate, Hillary should catch Obama by - never....

[JoeChalupa]

(CNN) — The Democratic presidential race is tightening nationally, according to a new CNN average of several recent polls.

Obama's lead is now down to 1 point over Clinton nationwide, 45 percent to 44 percent, in CNN's "poll of polls." That margin is down 3 points from another CNN poll of polls conducted two days ago. In that analysis, Obama led Clinton 47 percent to 43 percent. The margin is also considerably lower than an April 18 poll of polls that showed Obama with an 11 point lead.

The poll of polls consists of three newly released national polls from Fox News/Opinion Dynamics, Gallup, and Newsweek. There is no margin of error on the poll of polls.

Both the Fox News poll and the Gallup poll were conducted partially after Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, made a fresh round of controversial comments earlier this week.

The Fox News poll also appears to show Obama no longer has an edge over Clinton among independent voters. In head-to-head match ups, presumptive Republican nominee John McCain wins independents by a 4 point margin over Clinton (42-38 percent) and by a 10 points over Obama (47 percent to 37 percent).

The tide is indeed turning favorably for Hillary. Make no mistake about it.

[MannyIsGod]

The tide is indeed turning favorably for Hillary. Make no mistake about it.

:lol

Indeed. This shit is really going in her favor now.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Hillary's and Bill's little boat is sinking and no one can save it, not even continued references to badass Rev Wright.

It was said many weeks ago that Hillary would have to win ALL remaining primaries, and 65%-35%, and PA was not that, nor will the others be 65%-35% Hillary.

Wish that she would have conceded already.

Originally, I supported her. I despised her "Southern" strategy.

After all the contests are over, the remaining uncommitted superdelegates will have to decide to vote for or against the

1. total delegate leader (not counting the remaining uncommitted SDs)
2. the pledged delegate leader
3. the popular vote winner (by any reasonable standard)
4. the person who won the most contests
5. the person who won the most states
6. the person who has the most donors
7. the person who raised the most money.

I think that he will get at least 40% of the remaining uncommitted SDs with that argument.

SDs know that selecting somebody other than the person who won items 1-7 will create a huge backlash among Obama supporters, especially AAs.

They won't want to risk that.

[peewee's lovechild]

Should Clinton's Swing State Edge Be A Factor?

WASHINGTON (CNN) – There are new polls suggesting Hillary Clinton might fare better against John McCain in three key Electoral College battleground states in November than Barack Obama. These are states the two parties will be fighting over desperately in the general election – Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

The polls are snapshots and are certainly not conclusive evidence that she would in fact be a more formidable candidate against McCain in those states than Obama. A lot, of course, can change between now and November. But the polls are significant because they could influence those still-undecided superdelegates – and perhaps even some decided superdelegates who can change their minds.


The Quinnipiac University poll shows Clinton is currently ahead of McCain in Florida, 49 percent to 41 percent. In the same poll, McCain is statistically tied with Obama, 44 percent to 43 percent.

In Ohio, the poll shows Clinton ahead of McCain, 48 percent to 38 percent. McCain is statistically tied with Obama, 43 percent to 42 percent.

In Pennsylvania, Clinton is ahead of McCain, 51 percent to 37 percent. Obama is also ahead of McCain in this state, but by a slightly smaller margin — 47 percent to 38 percent.

As you know, Clinton defeated Obama by about ten points in both Ohio and Pennsylvania. In Florida, there was no campaigning because the state had moved up its primary against Democratic Party rules. But all the candidates’ names were on the ballots, and Clinton won decisively.

Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania will see a lot of campaigning in the months ahead. McCain is already spending lots of time there – as he should if he wants to be president. So should these latest polls be a serious factor in the minds of superdelegates?

[Don Quixote]

This is going to be an awesome convention. I can't wait.

Our convention, in Minneapolis (I say OUR -- but I'm not an "official" Republican) is going to be a snooze.

But the Democratic convention is going to be awesome. I wish I could be there.

[boutons_]

Obama the Choice of Those Who Know Both Clinton and Obama Best (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/emstrongobamastrongem-the_b_99829.html)

Posted May 2, 2008 | 01:22 PM (EST) Endorsements usually do not mean much, and have multiple, and sometimes unclear, motivations. Sometimes just old history with the person trumps other considerations such as nation and party.

Those hiring people for jobs do reference checks with former co-workers and former employers. Why? They have the best information about how the potential employee performs at their jobs, and provides the best prediction of how they will perform in their new job.

United States Senators are the only ones who have worked with both Obama and Hillary in the same capacity and in the same setting. One might have expected the Clintons' long history that antedated Hillary's Senate career with many of these members to have won their support. Moreover, they have worked with her longer in the Senate because her tenure is longer, as the Clintons continually point out. They know her
better.

These are the people who can best judge the claims to judgment, competence experience, likely success and unifying capacity. Making any choice in this situation is difficult because all know that they are going to have to work together in the future with one of them as a colleague and the other as president.

By 18-13 United States Senators have endorsed Barack Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/emstrongobamastrongem-the_b_99829.html?view=print

==============

I guess that is "up to now".

[IceColdBrewski]

3Qms7wMyx9g&NR=1

[MannyIsGod]

lol nice video.

I love how PeeWee posts shit about articles with polls that declare the polls meaningless within the articles but then go on to say it MAY sway super delegates.

We've been hearing this shit for MONTHS yet Hillary has been losing in the super delegate race. Man, I had my defense all ready to go yesterday when Clinton actually led in super delegate announcements due to the NY state add ons but instead of posting about that - which is actually substantive - peewee posts an article about polls and how they MAY give her more SDs.

Word in DC is that most have already made up their mind but are waiting for June to announce. Its over.

OVER!

[George Gervin's Afro]

lol nice video.

I love how PeeWee posts shit about articles with polls that declare the polls meaningless within the articles but then go on to say it MAY sway super delegates.

We've been hearing this shit for MONTHS yet Hillary has been losing in the super delegate race. Man, I had my defense all ready to go yesterday when Clinton actually led in super delegate announcements due to the NY state add ons but instead of posting about that - which is actually substantive - peewee posts an article about polls and how they MAY give her more SDs.

Word in DC is that most have already made up their mind but are waiting for June to announce. Its over.

OVER!

so are obama's presidential aspirations..over

[MannyIsGod]

so are obama's presidential aspirations..over

Wanna put your money where your mouth is?

[Hillary]

Wanna put your money where your mouth is?

He may win the nomination but he'll never win the general election.

Hillary in 2012!!!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Wanna put your money where your mouth is?

Manny

How mnay times has a person won the presidency after losing a Presidenial election? That is what I am basing my opinion on... I have stated OVER and OVER that Obama would be better off as the VP candidate this year because if he and Hillary were to lose her presidential apsirations are over...while his career would be just beginning....Nothing personal with Obama it's just that history shows the success of a presidential campaign loser is minimal and I am being generous when I say this.. Obama came on 8 yrs to early.

As far as putting my mo ney where my mouth is I would but you and I would have to wait for at least another 4 yrs to see if I'm right....Just look at Gore...


I tell you what Manny I'll make you a deal. IF Obama wins the general election I will buy you a dinner at a GTG during the 08-09 season... I am from SA and I go into town alot ...Deal?

[George Gervin's Afro]

He may win the nomination but he'll never win the general election.

Hillary in 2012!!!

If she loses this primary (which it is almost certain she will) her chances in 2012 may be better tha now.... losing the primary is totally different than losing the general electio..

[Hillary]

If she loses this primary (which it is almost certain she will) her chances in 2012 may be better tha now.... losing the primary is totally different than losing the general electio..

I'll be president in 2012 after McCain screws up royally. Barack is toast in the general election and I'll be there to pick up the pieces. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

GGA - I like the bet but i won't be in SA after this summer so I woudln't be able to collect when Barack wins.

I think Obama will win in November barring some huge scandal - McCain isn't polling higher and I do think both Hillary and Obama would crush him. They both have more money, they're better in front of the cameras and they both have bases that are far more motivated than the republicans.

Its so easy to get caught up in the now because of our information rich society, but I promise you by the end of the summer and the convention everyone will have forgotten these primaries and everything happened during them. Our country has a short term memory. Very short term.

We should work out a bet that we can meet over the internet where either I send you something if Barack loses or you send me something if he wins.

[some_user86]

How mnay times has a person won the presidency after losing a Presidenial election??

The last time it happened? Nixon.

[Wild Cobra]

President Reagan only recieved one electorial vote in 1976, and went on to win the presidency in 1980!

[some_user86]

President Reagan only recieved one electorial vote in 1976, and went on to win the presidency in 1980!

Well, that's happened a lot before. Someone introduces themselves to the national crowd in one year, and uses the momentum to win the nomination in the following election cycle.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7B33EBBF11-B6F2-4EA5-A63F-7A8EB07EBF81%7D.gif

[Don Quixote]

I'm sad to report that my grandfather, a conservative Republican who lives in North Carolina, will not be able to switch parties in time for the Democratic primary. He is running for county commissioner near Elizabeth City (NE N.C.) and can't switch. However, I am happy to say that his second wife (my grandmother died in 1995) and a couple of my uncles will, indeed, switch parties and vote for Hillary in the primary.

Can't say this will help much, since Obama is expected to take NC. But then again, polls have been wrong before.

And also, is a vote for Hillary a sin? I've wondered this. Since Louisiana's GOP primary happened when the race was still in doubt, I didn't switch parties. But if I had, and voted for Hillary, I'm sure I would have needed a scalding hot shower.

[SPARKY]

Hillary certainly isn't helping Obama by stretching this out. There's not much of a difference between her and McCain. Once she is out I expect that McCain will pick up some support. Like it or not, race will be a factor in this election.

Iraq won't be what elects Obama. He will have to find another way to take down McCain. Youth and vision may just be it. Unfortunately, old people vote more than the young.

I can't say I'm excited about any of the three choices our limited process has presented us with. But I'd rather listen to Obama for the next four years than the other two.

[Ignignokt]

http://www.whole-isticsolutions.com/images/ingred/bananas.jpg

[Don Quixote]

Hillary certainly isn't helping Obama by stretching this out. There's not much of a difference between her and McCain. Once she is out I expect that McCain will pick up some support. Like it or not, race will be a factor in this election.

But why should Hillary quit? She's worked her entire life to become President. It's her birthright. It's what will give her life meaning. And she'll be darned if she lets some smooth-talking upstart steal it from her.

And why quit? She's the one with the momentum, and she's not that far behind in the delegate count. I agree that she still has an uphill battle up until the Convention, but its not like she has no support. She has a lot of support from Democrats who have concerns about Obama (no need to rehash them again).

[Nbadan]

While Republicans like Quitote, the M$M, and the Clintonistas continue to live in their own world, the super-delegate count gets thinner as 3 more decide to go with Obama..

Obama picks up 3 more Illinois superdelegates: Daley, Currie and Stroger.


WASHINGTON--When the Democratic Party of Illinois meet next week to finish filling out the delegate slate, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) will pick up three more superdelegates, according to Steve Brown, a spokesman for state party chair Michael Madigan, who is also the speaker of the Illinois House.

That's because the three appointments are all pledged to Obama: Mayor Daley --he shares strategist David Axelrod with Obama and brother Bill, the former Commerce Secetary is on the Obama team; Illinois House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie (D-Chicago), a Hyde Parker who lives near the Obamas'; and Cook County Board President Todd Stroger.

3) More Super Delegate additions added down thread

Sun Times (http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_picks_up_3_more_illinois.html)

[JoeChalupa]

Hillary isn't going to quit. Maybe, maybe if she lost both IN and NC tomorrow but that isn't going to happen unless the people of IN wise up and having lived in OH for 35 yrs I know those Hoosiers are home-town men and women who will vote for Hillary.

[xrayzebra]

While Republicans like Quitote, the M$M, and the Clintonistas continue to live in their own world, the super-delegate count gets thinner as 3 more decide to go with Obama..

Obama picks up 3 more Illinois superdelegates: Daley, Currie and Stroger.



Sun Times (http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_picks_up_3_more_illinois.html)

Dan, who really cares who wins the dimm-o-crap primaries? Just so long as they fight each other to the
bitter end of the convention. That's the plan. Keep it
going....and going....and going....like the rabbit.

[Don Quixote]

Dan, who really cares who wins the dimm-o-crap primaries? Just so long as they fight each other to the
bitter end of the convention. That's the plan. Keep it
going....and going....and going....like the rabbit.

Shut up you old coot! The first rule of Operation Chaos is, you don't talk about Operation Chaos.

[Don Quixote]

While Republicans like Quitote, the M$M, and the Clintonistas continue to live in their own world, the super-delegate count gets thinner as 3 more decide to go with Obama..


You misunderstood my post. That's okay, not a first.

If you would re-read what I wrote, you will see clearly that I would still put Obama in the driver's seat to nab the nomination. The numbers are currently in his favor. But it's not over.

What the D-race has revealed (conservatives knew it all along) is that there is a deep divide in the D-electorate. In other words, Obama voters are fundamentally different from Hillary voters. And if the DNC thinks that these differences will just go away by fiat, or by naming a nominee at the convention, they are being foolish.

[boutons_]

Clinton Camp Says It Will Use The Nuclear Option

In a statement (http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=7495) issued in response to a story on The Huffington Post ("Clinton Camp Considering Nuclear Option," see below), the campaign declared:
"There is no secret plan.... The Clinton campaign has been vocal in stating that the votes of 2.5 million people must be respected. Hardly a day goes by when a Clinton official doesn't publicly declare that the votes of Michigan and Florida count and that the delegations from those states should be seated."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/04/clinton-camp-considering_n_100051.html


.


... is why Hillary and Bill are going to have convention floor fight.

Candidates coming out of convention fights have NEVER won the Presidency.

[Nbadan]

Delegate update: Four more for Obama
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:19 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008, Obama, Delegates

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
bama has picked up four more superdelegates today; Clinton has picked up none.

Three Maryland delegates were scheduled to hold a 2:30 p.m. ET press conference in College Park, Md., to announce their endorsements of Obama: former Gov. Parris Glendening, Democratic Party Chairman Michael Cryor and Vice chairwoman Lauren Dugas Glover. (Note: We already had Cryor on our list and added in Glendening over the weekend when he was named an add-on. Glover is new in our count, so she is added in.)

Obama officially picks up the three Illinois add-ons: Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, Illinois House Maj. Leader Barbara Flynn Currie and Cook County Board President Todd Stroger. (They were announced Thursday, but were not added into our count until today when they were made official at a state party meeting.)

The Delegate Counts:
SUPERDELEGATES: Clinton 273-258
PLEDGED: Obama 1,492-1,338
OVERALL: Obama 1,750-1,611

- There are 264 undeclared superdelegates.
- Since the Pennsylvania primary: It's Obama +21, Clinton +11.
- Since Super Tuesday, Feb. 5: It's Obama +88, Clinton +13.
- Since Junior Super Tuesday, March 4: It's Obama +45, Clinton +20

[smeagol]

... is why Hillary and Bill are going to have convention floor fight.

Candidates coming out of convention fights have NEVER won the Presidency.

. . . and this is why Dems are idiots.

Do you finally get it Manny? 'Cause even boutons gets it . . .

[Don Quixote]

Conflict is not a bad thing -- this is what they taught me at the big school place.

No ... a fight is good for everyone involved. Both sides have serious grievances that need to be worked out. I pray for the good people of America that neither Hillary's people, nor the Obamaniacs, back down. And it'll make for great television.

[Wild Cobra]

Shut up you old coot! The first rule of Operation Chaos is, you don't talk about Operation Chaos.

LOL....

I'm hoping it has another effect myself. I think we all agree that McCain would not be the republican nominee if you could only vote your party affiliation. My hope is that there will be changes in the state laws to only vote party affiliation. Then we would have a conservative running in the general election, either Huckabee or Romney. Then I would have a clear choice for voting.

I'm hoping there is a good libertarian candidate, because I cannot bring myself to vote for McCain, Obama, or Clinton.

[Wild Cobra]

. . . and this is why Dems are idiots.

Do you finally get it Manny? 'Cause even boutons gets it . . .

No Shit!

That surprised me... Another rare point in time I agree with Bouton's

[MannyIsGod]

. . . and this is why Dems are idiots.

Do you finally get it Manny? 'Cause even boutons gets it . . .

Its you who doesn't get it. She can say she's going to go to the convention for a fight but if everyone ignores her who fucking cares? Clinton =/ democrats.

[MannyIsGod]

This shits over. It has been over. Obama's pledged delegate lead grows tomorrow. His super delegate margin is being closed rapidly and he'll have a lead before the end of the month more likely than not.

Then what? Clinton can bitch and moan all she wants but the Super Delegates aren't responding. You can't just walking into the convention and say "I want a floor fight" and make it so. You think Dean and Pelosi are going to sit back and allow that to happen? Yeah Smeagol, if that happens then I'll agree with you that they're being stupid but everything they have done so far has been by the book and has been done in order for them retain an even ground to stand on; they can not look like they are bullying Clinton out of the race. So the race will go on for a month now but at the end Clinton will be behind in Pledged Delegates, the popular vote, and more than likely Super Delegates as well. Then what does she do?

[MannyIsGod]

5-5-08 - Added DNC Kalyn Free (OK) (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGChv9) for Obama.
- Added DNC (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7513)Theresa Morelli (DA)* (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7513) for Clinton.
- Added DNC Michael Cryor (MD) (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2008/05/obama_gets_two_more_md_superde.html) and DNC Lauren Glover (MD) (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2008/05/obama_gets_two_more_md_superde.html) for Obama
- Added IL add-on Richard Daley (IL)# (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070210daley-obama-story,0,4825836.story?coll=chi-news-hed) for Obama. 2 other IL add-ons will be added when we get a valid source

[MannyIsGod]

6-1 on Monday. The party is obviously listening to Clinton.

[MannyIsGod]

Let me break it down to you again with numbers.

Obama needs 282 at this time to win. 404 pledged delegates are left. Lets split those down the middle. 202 to each. I think Obama probably gets more, but w/e. So that leaves him with 80 delegates from the remaining 273 Super Delegates. He's getting a few of those per day so by the time June rolls around Obama has already racked up all the delegates he needs.

EVEN A 2:1 RATIO WITH THE SUPER DELEGATES DOESN'T WIN THE RACE FOR CLINTON! And she's having days where she's on teh wrong end of a 6:1 ratio. LOL

No more primaries, Obama is at the magic number, what do you think the party leaders do? They tell Clinton to fuck off in not so subtle ways. Convention rolls around in September and no one even remembers the Spring primaries.

GG.

[smeagol]

Its you who doesn't get it. She can say she's going to go to the convention for a fight but if everyone ignores her who fucking cares? Clinton =/ democrats.

I'm not talking about Clinton beating Obama. I read all your posts and concluded you are right. There is no chance Obama loses the nomination.

What I'm talking about is democrats going against denmocrats because of the animonisity between sides.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not talking about Clinton beating Obama. I read all your posts and concluded you are right. There is no chance Obama loses the nomination.

What I'm talking about is democrats going against denmocrats because of the animonisity between sides.


I think you're overestimating any resentment that will endure after this fight by any Clinton supporters. She can try to do what she wants, but once the nomination process is officially over then the Party will support its candidate.

Yeah, people like Pee Wee will be bitches about it, but the vast majority won't. The Democrats are really motivated right now. Thats why they're getting record turnouts. In the end, they'll support a democrat even if it wasn't their top choice in the primary season.

[JoeChalupa]

I think you're overestimating any resentment that will endure after this fight by any Clinton supporters. She can try to do what she wants, but once the nomination process is officially over then the Party will support its candidate.

Yeah, people like Pee Wee will be bitches about it, but the vast majority won't. The Democrats are really motivated right now. Thats why they're getting record turnouts. In the end, they'll support a democrat even if it wasn't their top choice in the primary season.

I concur. But there are many republicans who want to vote deomocrat who will vote for McCain if their choice doesn't get the nomination.

It'll be a pretty even split after today's results come in. Hillary will win IN and Obama will win NC.

Nothing much will change in the delegate count.

[xrayzebra]

I run across this little column this morning. Says it all, in my opinion.

Democrat Primaries A Microcosm Of Socialist Thinking
By Doug Patton
May 6, 2008

As I write this, Democrats in the states of Indiana and North Carolina are poised to express their preferences in the ongoing primary slugfest between U.S. Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama. Which of them wins is of little importance. What counts, as with all things liberal, is fairness.

A generation ago, Democrats decided that fairness outweighed the need for an orderly process that actually produced a viable candidate for President of the United States. Following the 1968 debacle in Chicago, the party rigged the system so that never again would their bigwigs be denied a voice in the presidential nominating convention.

By 1984, the Democrats had come up with the ridiculous nominating process we see in action this year. It included the "super-delegates" we have heard so much about, unelected delegations consisting of senators, congressmen, governors and other party officials who are guaranteed a seat at the table whether they deserve it or not.

Additionally, in the name of fairness, the party has continued to encumber itself with a set of rules that prevents two equally popular candidates like Clinton and Obama from ever truly winning a primary. In Democrat primaries, there are no winner-take-all elections. This creates a situation where a candidate can win what would, under any other circumstances, be considered a landslide (say, 60-40) and walk away with very few more delegates than the loser.

This arcane system is a microcosm of socialist thinking. In the eternal utopia of the liberal mind, no one should really win or lose. No one should have more than anyone else. Everything should be equally distributed. In fact, equality of opportunity means nothing, while equality of result means everything. Anyone who gets ahead must be penalized. As in their primary elections, no matter how hard you work, no matter how much you prosper, no matter how diligently you plan, you will never get beyond a certain point. To allow you to do so would be unfair.

It is the reason why, in a recent debate, when asked about the capital gains tax, Barack Obama made the stunning confession that he didn't care that raising the tax would actually decrease revenues to the federal government. For him, it is about fairness. He said that!

Similarly, Hillary Clinton is touting a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies to "pay for" the gas tax holiday she wants to give us this summer. It's all about fairness. The oil companies are prospering so they must be punished. Never mind that corporations don't pay taxes; people pay taxes. Oil companies, like all corporations, will simply pass on any tax on their "windfall profits" to all of us at the pump. And when they do, Democrats will be right there to pounce on their "greed." Nothing will be said about government greed.

Both Clinton and Obama want to force you to pay for your neighbor's health care when you can barely afford to pay for your own, even as they try to convince you that it's free for everyone.

This is socialism, pure and simple. Democrats can dress it up and call it anything they want, but we have seen it in action time and again all over the world. The former Soviet Union achieved total equality - meaning that everyone was equally miserable. It doesn't take much of a five-year plan to have an entire country standing in line for a dried-out potato and a stale loaf of bread.

So the next time you hear Clinton or Obama or any other Democrat talk about making the rich "pay their fair share," ask yourself how it benefits you to have the job creators of our society punished for their prosperity. Ask yourself how stifling the growth of our economy helps your lot in life. And ask yourself how a party that is more interested in equality and fairness than in freedom and opportunity can ever lead this country anywhere but onto the ash heap of history.

---

Doug Patton is a freelance columnist who has served as a political speechwriter and public policy advisor. His weekly columns are published in newspapers across the country and on selected Internet web sites, including Human Events Online, TheConservativeVoice.com and GOPUSA.com, where he is a senior writer and state editor. Readers may e-mail him at [email protected].

--------------------

Note -- The opinions expressed in this column are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, and/or philosophy of GOPUSA.

[JoeChalupa]

Do you ever form your own opinions?

[Heath Ledger]

Im going to laugh my @ss off when Hillary wins the nomination, Manny can't you smell the upset? It's a coming...

[Nbadan]

The Math...


HJKuAWLdxCI

[Don Quixote]

Hillary needs to take it to the Convention.

I can't wait!

[xrayzebra]

Do you ever form your own opinions?

I could ask you the same. But to answer your question:
Yes. But I also like to post things that reinforces my
opinion. Don't you, sure you do.

One of these days you may even see the "light" and come
on over to our side. As a conservative, not some wrong
headed dimm-0-crap.

[Don Quixote]

As expected, it looks like Obama will take NC, and Hillary will get IN. I'm not sure what this means in the exact # of delegates allotted (are they winner-take-all?), but it does mean another indecisive primary result, which means the Democratic race will go on.

I can see why my Democratic friends are frustrated. They've been working non-stop since January, hoping for a clear Democratic winner. They're sick of this fight, and they want to return to their first love, which is trashing Republicans. I predict Obama supporters will tout their victory in NC as some big thing, hoping to get this primary season over with.

Next two primaries are KY and WV. I think Hillary gets them both.

[MannyIsGod]

As expected, it looks like Obama will take NC, and Hillary will get IN. I'm not sure what this means in the exact # of delegates allotted (are they winner-take-all?), but it does mean another indecisive primary result, which means the Democratic race will go on.

I can see why my Democratic friends are frustrated. They've been working non-stop since January, hoping for a clear Democratic winner. They're sick of this fight, and they want to return to their first love, which is trashing Republicans. I predict Obama supporters will tout their victory in NC as some big thing, hoping to get this primary season over with.

Next two primaries are KY and WV. I think Hillary gets them both.

You point out so much obvious shit its amazing. Any Obama win at this point just solidifies his victory even more. I ran numbers for you with the assumption that Clinton would win 60% of each primary from here on out. What do you think happens to those numbers when OBAMA wins 60% of a primary?

[Don Quixote]

So sensitive! You'll find this hard to believe, but I'm actually looking forward to an Obama candidacy this fall.

I should hope, however, that you direct your feminine rage toward the Clintonistas. Hillary's been causing nothing but trouble for the Messiah, lying and scheming and what not. If she does, say, steal this nomination from the Anointed One, I trust you will remember her slander and lack of scruples come Election Day.

I'm not disputing that the Golden Child will take his lead into the convention. But this race is nowhere near over. Expect Chairman Dean to ask, again, for the superdelegates to make up their mind before the convention.

[Don Quixote]

On the other hand ... even if the Clintons can get the popular vote to appear like it's in their favor, I'm not sure the super-delegates will see it their way. Why would they want to make young voters angry, tork off blacks, and get the Obama cultists to plot a bloody coup? So I think they break for Obama at the convention.

That said ... the convention is going to be fantastic. I can't wait for Hillary's speech.

[Don Quixote]

This is not a parody ...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2027/2460454028_f1bde14d18.jpg?v=0

And butterflies and things fly out of him!
https://www.stonehousedigital.com/stores/upperplayground/catalog/upperplayground/large/sam-flores-x-obamabig.jpg

Apparently, he endorses some 1950's laundry detergent.
https://www.stonehousedigital.com/stores/upperplayground/catalog/upperplayground/large/UP88708PTBIG.jpg
He appears ... transparent.

[MannyIsGod]

So sensitive! You'll find this hard to believe, but I'm actually looking forward to an Obama candidacy this fall.

I should hope, however, that you direct your feminine rage toward the Clintonistas. Hillary's been causing nothing but trouble for the Messiah, lying and scheming and what not. If she does, say, steal this nomination from the Anointed One, I trust you will remember her slander and lack of scruples come Election Day.

I'm not disputing that the Golden Child will take his lead into the convention. But this race is nowhere near over. Expect Chairman Dean to ask, again, for the superdelegates to make up their mind before the convention.

It is over. You're just too dense to grasp the numbers that have said this is over for quite some time now.

He's making IN very close. CBS was fucking STUPID for calling it so early.

[Don Quixote]

Um, no. Re-read my posts. I'm saying I agree that the numbers are in the Golden Child's favor.

[boutons_]

Another voting day, another delegate beating for Hillary

+7 delegates on the day for HUSSEIN!

Just go away, and saving us from looking at bulging pantsuits for 4 years.


uncommitted superdelegates MUST get off the fence, even switch, for Obama.

[boutons_]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7B33EBBF11-B6F2-4EA5-A63F-7A8EB07EBF81%7D.gif

Good one! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

50/50 virtual tie my ass.

[Don Quixote]

If I were to put $$ on it, I'd say the Super-Ds break for Obama. But it'll be a tough decision.

If they indeed select Obama, they have just torked off blue-collar democrats, Catholics and evangelical Democrats, and seniors.

On the other hand, if they go with Clinton, they risk torking off student radicals, guilty white libs, Obama cultists, and blacks. (However ... blacks have been treated far worse by Democrats in the past, and they always come home in the end.)

That said, I welcome an Obama candidacy!

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

So much for its going to the convention. Virtually nothing changed last night but you and the Media (save for a few people) act like Obama made some huge earth shattering steps.

I love it. Keep giving us your predictions that change by the hour Don.

[Don Quixote]

Um, no. I admit that I am more optimistic about Obama's chances than I was 2 weeks ago, but Obama kicked butt in NC last night, while Hillary barely won in IN.

I've come to the realization, however, that the Super-D's ought to break for the Messiah. It's the path of least resistance for them. But I don't mean to say that it won't go to the convention, because it will. And the convention will be awesome.

Obama cultists, however, still should have concerns about their Leader's overall electability in the general. I'm not sure how he gets blue-collar voters or Catholics (or evangelicals). I'm not sure how voters will somehow overlook the Chosen One's radical friends (Ayers, Wright, and more yet to be uncovered). Not that McCain's campaign is airtight, but an Obama candidacy raises serious problems.

The problem is that the Democratic electorate is seriously divided. The division, however, wasn't caused by Hillary's candidacy, and it sure won't go away because Chairman Dean says so. So, I welcome an Obama candidacy. Really.

[ChumpDumper]

Clinton is only staying in long enough to pay down some of her campaign's debt.

[PixelPusher]

Hillary Will Drop Out By June 15 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/hillary-will-drop-out-by_b_100625.html)
Lawrence O'Donnell
Posted May 7, 2008 | 01:18 PM (EST)

A senior campaign official and Clinton confidante has told me that there will be a Democratic nominee by June 15. He could not bring himself to say the words "Hillary will drop out by June 15," but that is clearly what he meant. I kept saying, "So, Hillary will drop out by June 15," and he kept saying, "We will have a nominee by June 15." He stressed what a reasonable person Hillary is.

Everything about our conversation implied that he had already had this reality-based discussion with Hillary. He said the Clinton campaign plan is to collect as many votes and delegates as they can right through June 3, then take no more than a week or so to make their case to the superdelegates. Nothing he said indicated that he actually expected the superdelegates to move to Hillary in the week after the final election. The Clinton campaign has not lost its grip on reality. Yes, Clinton spokespersons publicly seem to be lost on gravity-free planet Clinton, but privately they know the end is near.

[G-Nob]

Time to wrap it up! Hills is loaning money and supes are going to start coming out in the next week for bobo. Let's heal these wounds and stop the spin.

[MannyIsGod]

Um, no. I admit that I am more optimistic about Obama's chances than I was 2 weeks ago, but Obama kicked butt in NC last night, while Hillary barely won in IN.

I've come to the realization, however, that the Super-D's ought to break for the Messiah. It's the path of least resistance for them. But I don't mean to say that it won't go to the convention, because it will. And the convention will be awesome.

Obama cultists, however, still should have concerns about their Leader's overall electability in the general. I'm not sure how he gets blue-collar voters or Catholics (or evangelicals). I'm not sure how voters will somehow overlook the Chosen One's radical friends (Ayers, Wright, and more yet to be uncovered). Not that McCain's campaign is airtight, but an Obama candidacy raises serious problems.

The problem is that the Democratic electorate is seriously divided. The division, however, wasn't caused by Hillary's candidacy, and it sure won't go away because Chairman Dean says so. So, I welcome an Obama candidacy. Really.

The only place any of this exists is in your head. Must be a wonderful place that world. Obama cultists, divided electorates, and lolipop trees!

Here's a hint, provide one ounce of proof to everything you say every once in a while. I'd love to see it.

Don Quixote - Mayor of Imaginationland!

[MannyIsGod]

Its funny - its like people can't look at demographics and realize the way things are going to play out. Indiana was always going to be close, but in reality all the media buzz last night was over ONE delegate. Hardly ground breaking. North Carolina was never going to be anything but an Obama blow out. West Virginia and Kentucky are going to be Clinton victories. Penn was always going to be a Clinton landslide.

This has all been known for quite some time, yet last night and today people are urging Clinton to drop out when nothing has changed. Whatever, let her run the campaign out if she wants, its over, and its been over.

[JoeChalupa]

The Manny is healthy, the Manny is wise.


:tu



Barack the Vote!!!!

[Don Quixote]

Obama cultists, divided electorates,

Okay. :blah

In my dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses and other cult groups, I've learned that it's never a good idea to call them "cultists" to their face. It just gets them mad. What I mean to say, then, is "Obama supporter." There. Feel better?

Second, remember that I am on your side! I want an Obama candidacy. For awhile, I was on the fence, but I'll say now that I would welcome Obama being the D-nominee. So, I would suggest that you direct your feminine rage toward the Clintonistas, and not toward me.

[MannyIsGod]

Okay. :blah

In my dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses and other cult groups, I've learned that it's never a good idea to call them "cultists" to their face. It just gets them mad. What I mean to say, then, is "Obama supporter." There. Feel better?

Second, remember that I am on your side! I want an Obama candidacy. For awhile, I was on the fence, but I'll say now that I would welcome Obama being the D-nominee. So, I would suggest that you direct your feminine rage toward the Clintonistas, and not toward me.

Sorry my rage is usually directly attributable to those of us around here who have no sense and display characteristics of high mental retardation. I know its not your fault you have downs syndrome. I'll lay off.

[Ignignokt]

Sorry my rage.......http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0812/2.gif



is usually directly attributable to those of us around here who have no sense and display characteristics of high mental retardation. I know its not your fault you have downs syndrome. I'll lay off.

[RandomGuy]

I'm not talking about Clinton beating Obama. I read all your posts and concluded you are right. There is no chance Obama loses the nomination.

What I'm talking about is democrats going against denmocrats because of the animonisity between sides.

My gut is that the animosity will pass.

From my experience at the county convention for Hays county, we had a bit of rancor here and there.

BUT

When someone said the magic words "George Bush" in front of them, it is like waving a red flag infront of a bull. A couple of "rag on GW" bits in the speeches brought standing ovations. The only thing this administration has NOT fucked up in 7 years is in energizing the Democratic electorate. They have proven remarkably successful at that.

Remember, George Bush is a uniter, not a divider. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

Sorry my rage is usually directly attributable to those of us around here who have no sense and display characteristics of high mental retardation. I know its not your fault you have downs syndrome. I'll lay off.

Besides, I think we all agree that there is another candidate out there for whom the phrase "cult following" is a waaaaay more apt. ;)

[JoeChalupa]

Sorry my rage is usually directly attributable to those of us around here who have no sense and display characteristics of high mental retardation. I know its not your fault you have downs syndrome. I'll lay off.

We are all guilty.

[RandomGuy]

So the next time you hear Clinton or Obama or any other Democrat talk about making the rich "pay their fair share," ask yourself how it benefits you to have the job creators of our society punished for their prosperity. Ask yourself how stifling the growth of our economy helps your lot in life. And ask yourself how a party that is more interested in equality and fairness than in freedom and opportunity can ever lead this country anywhere but onto the ash heap of history.


"pay their fair share"

Do I need to break out an economics textbook, and start talking about marginal income, marginal propensity to consume, and how GDP is measured?

Meh. I have, at length debunked this bit as both misusing/misunderstanding economic theory and generally immoral.

Somewhere I swear I am going to simply store some bit about this, so that everytime someone who has drank too much GOP coolaid trots this tired lie out, I have a ready-made reposte. Anyhoo, off to work.

[xrayzebra]

"pay their fair share"

Do I need to break out an economics textbook, and start talking about marginal income, marginal propensity to consume, and how GDP is measured?

Meh. I have, at length debunked this bit as both misusing/misunderstanding economic theory and generally immoral.

Somewhere I swear I am going to simply store some bit about this, so that everytime someone who has drank too much GOP coolaid trots this tired lie out, I have a ready-made reposte. Anyhoo, off to work.

Oh great RG, why don't you share one more time your
great wealth of your economics textbook. Explain how
taxing the rich is the answer and at what point does a
person become rich. What yardstick do you use to measure this. Please, please share your WEALTH of knowledge.

[JoeChalupa]

Oh great RG, why don't you share one more time your
great wealth of your economics textbook. Explain how
taxing the rich is the answer and at what point does a
person become rich. What yardstick do you use to measure this. Please, please share your WEALTH of knowledge.

Many will be asking McCain the same question.

[Don Quixote]

Besides, I think we all agree that there is another candidate out there for whom the phrase "cult following" is a waaaaay more apt. ;)

I'm curious. Whom?

(I mean, currently living and active. We know that conservatives have their icons, too, and rightly venerate Reagan, Goldwater, Bork, and Buckley. I've even seen the old-times say good things about Hoover.)

But please give examples of people fainting at the sight of Bush, writing songs to him, fantasizing about him.

[Don Quixote]

Sorry my rage is usually directly attributable to those of us around here who have no sense and display characteristics of high mental retardation. I know its not your fault you have downs syndrome. I'll lay off.

I think what our friend here is trying to say is, "you're stupid." I know, that's how 6-year-olds fight. :lol I'll stop now.

But, the people here at ST would be happy to know that I have come around. For a few weeks, I wandered in the valley of indecision, wondering how the D-nomination was going to play out. While Clinton proved to be a formidable opponent, I would like to announce my support for Senator Barack Hussein Obama of Illinois.

I do apologize for ever having questioned the Holy One. And, as an act of contrition for offending his ardent supporters, I will display campaign posters for Saint Barack in my sig. I hope this convinces everyone of my sincerest apologies for my many, many transgressions.

-Don Quixote (& Rosinante)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2027/2460454028_f1bde14d18.jpg?v=0

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think what our friend here is trying to say is, "you're stupid." I know, that's how 6-year-olds fight. :lol I'll stop now.

But, the people here at ST would be happy to know that I have come around. For a few weeks, I wandered in the valley of indecision, wondering how the D-nomination was going to play out. While Clinton proved to be a formidable opponent, I would like to announce my support for Senator Barack Hussein Obama of Illinois.

I do apologize for ever having questioned the Holy One. And, as an act of contrition for offending his ardent supporters, I will display campaign posters for Saint Barack in my sig. I hope this convinces everyone of my sincerest apologies for my many, many transgressions.

-Don Quixote (& Rosinante)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2027/2460454028_f1bde14d18.jpg?v=0

shame on you for not fainting.. there's still time !

[JoeChalupa]

The messiah?

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/images/bush_halo_a.jpg

The second coming?

[Don Quixote]

shame on you for not fainting.. there's still time !

I steadied myself just in time.

And, generally supporting Bush (or anybody) is not the same thing as sainting him.

[RandomGuy]

I'm curious. Whom?

(I mean, currently living and active. We know that conservatives have their icons, too, and rightly venerate Reagan, Goldwater, Bork, and Buckley. I've even seen the old-times say good things about Hoover.)

But please give examples of people fainting at the sight of Bush, writing songs to him, fantasizing about him.

The answer to your question, grasshopper, can be found in the thread titles presently in the first page of this forum. (bows)

...or hell, on the spam-like amount of signage just about everywhere for a certain "revolution"

[Don Quixote]

Thank you, RandomDude, once again, for your nuggets of wisdom. How could I have overlooked them?

Ah yes, the Clintonistas. They are certainly a tenacious bunch.

Lately, though, I have found them endearing. Indeed, I even like them.

[RandomGuy]

Oh great RG, why don't you share one more time your
great wealth of your economics textbook. Explain how
taxing the rich is the answer and at what point does a
person become rich. What yardstick do you use to measure this. Please, please share your WEALTH of knowledge.

:lol

Dude, you know me well enough by now to know that I can do exactly that.

I will try to get sometime on this over the weekend. Heh, I have more than just *one* economics textbook (5 if memory serves, two from macro, two from micro, and one on international economics). I have kept about 85% of my textbooks during my college career and actually re-read them on rare occasions. They occupy a beloved place in our cramped apartment. My wife has been pressing me to get rid of them, as well as my sci-fi book collection for years... :lol

[RandomGuy]

Thank you, RandomDude, once again, for your nuggets of wisdom. How could I have overlooked them?

Ah yes, the Clintonistas. They are certainly a tenacious bunch.

Lately, though, I have found them endearing. Indeed, I even like them.

No problem. For those who worry about the "obama cult" I would note that none of them have cornered an opposing candidate in the control room of a ferry shouting questions about 9-11 being an inside job (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/2340)yet...

[Don Quixote]

The Truthies are cute too. Yes, I would say they have some characteristics of a cult -- minus the strong charismatic leadership. On the other hand, maybe they have found their man in Ron Paul. And I feel bad for Ron Paul that they have latched onto him.

[RandomGuy]

The Truthies are cute too. Yes, I would say they have some characteristics of a cult -- minus the strong charismatic leadership. On the other hand, maybe they have found their man in Ron Paul. And I feel bad for Ron Paul that they have latched onto him.

I don't. Ron "Dr. No" Paul is a total nutjob.

Anybody who voted against the national "do not call" registry deserves to have his phone number given to every telemarketer on the face of the planet.

That way we'll see whether or not the guy signs up for the do not call registry to gauge his real commitment to his principles. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

Gawd, that would be a first class prank. Give the number of the guy who voted against the registry to every telemarketing firm in the US...

[MannyIsGod]

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS 5) ― California voters would change their February primary vote for Hillary Clinton to a vote for Barack Obama if the vote were held again, according to an exclusive poll commissioned by CBS 5.

While voters in the California Democratic Presidential Primary backed Clinton by a 10-point margin, a new SurveyUSA poll shows that if given the chance to vote again, Californians would choose Barack Obama by a 6-point margin, 49%-43%.

The poll was conducted on May 7 and 8 and has a margin of error of 4%.

On the Republican side, John McCain won by 8 points in the California primary. The new poll says he would win by 35, in a 55%-20% victory over Mitt Romney, if Californians were given the chance to vote again.

http://cbs5.com/politics/poll.clinton.obama.2.720136.html

[Yonivore]

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS 5) ― California voters would change their February primary vote for Hillary Clinton to a vote for Barack Obama if the vote were held again, according to an exclusive poll commissioned by CBS 5.

While voters in the California Democratic Presidential Primary backed Clinton by a 10-point margin, a new SurveyUSA poll shows that if given the chance to vote again, Californians would choose Barack Obama by a 6-point margin, 49%-43%.

The poll was conducted on May 7 and 8 and has a margin of error of 4%.

On the Republican side, John McCain won by 8 points in the California primary. The new poll says he would win by 35, in a 55%-20% victory over Mitt Romney, if Californians were given the chance to vote again.

http://cbs5.com/politics/poll.clinton.obama.2.720136.html
California Democrats are shallow, idiotic, fickle, creatures. That big of a swing over the course of a few months -- from a candidate they've known for almost two decades to one that's barely had a political career -- shows how shallow and unprincipled are Democrats. Neither candidate is any different than they were when Californians first voted for them.

[ClingingMars]

Besides, I think we all agree that there is another candidate out there for whom the phrase "cult following" is a waaaaay more apt. ;)

Ron Paul?

- Mars

[Don Quixote]

Yes, Ron Paul. They are more of a fringe group.

But do people actually faint at his sight? And does he apply messianic language to himself?

[ClingingMars]

Yes, Ron Paul. They are more of a fringe group.

But do people actually faint at his sight? And does he apply messianic language to himself?

I don't know, I have several RL friends who are RP supporters who do some strangeee things...

- Mars

[Don Quixote]

What's an RL? Religious Left?

[ClingingMars]

What's an RL? Religious Left?

no, real life, but I do have an RL friend is a member of the evangelical left...

- Mars

[Don Quixote]

Anyway ... back to the topic, does Hillary still have a chance? I still say she does, but it's looking more like a long shot now. Her move to the Center last year, which she did to prepare for her expected coronation this year, didn't work out so well for her. The Lefties gravitated to the Chosen One, and her scramble leftward hasn't worked.

I still think the delegates from Mich. and Flor. get seated somehow. And the popular vote and delegate counts are very close. So she's still in it. But I think the Super-D's go with St. Barack in the end. I welcome it, in fact.

And the Convention is going to be fun!

[MannyIsGod]

Anyway ... back to the topic, does Hillary still have a chance? I still say she does, but it's looking more like a long shot now. Her move to the Center last year, which she did to prepare for her expected coronation this year, didn't work out so well for her. The Lefties gravitated to the Chosen One, and her scramble leftward hasn't worked.

I still think the delegates from Mich. and Flor. get seated somehow. And the popular vote and delegate counts are very close. So she's still in it. But I think the Super-D's go with St. Barack in the end. I welcome it, in fact.

And the Convention is going to be fun!

:lmao

[PlayoffEx-static]

It's not going to come down to the convention. By the second week in June, the primaries will be over, Obama will have the lead, and she'll have to drop out or go nuclear on Obama. If she select option B, the Dems have no chance in November, so I can see a super delegate stampede to Barack to prevent such a Demo-suicidal approach even being allowed.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Its fucking over now! Barak has the lead in Pledged delegates AND super delegates. Oregon will put him over the magic number if he doesn't get it before

[ChumpDumper]

Clinton will fall in line in a few weeks and it will all be done. Both candidates' speeches after Indiana pointed towards this. All those hoping for widespread violence at the convention will be disappointed.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol

Its fucking over now! Barak has the lead in Pledged delegates AND super delegates. Oregon will put him over the magic number if he doesn't get it before

Hard to say. Our own version of "Operation Chaos" is pretty strong here.

[ChumpDumper]

Hard to say. Our own version of "Operation Chaos" is pretty strong here.
So there is a vast right-wing conspiracy!

Great job proving Hillary right! :rollin

[Wild Cobra]

So there is a vast right-wing conspiracy!

Great job proving Hillary right! :rollin

No. Not a conspiracy. It'a all out in the open. No secret meetings, no hidden agendas.

[ChumpDumper]

Dosen't have to be secret according to the dictionary.

[awaits diatribe about the liberal bias of Mirriam-Webster]

[Don Quixote]

:lol

Its over now! Barack has the lead in Pledged delegates AND super delegates. Oregon will put him over the magic number if he doesn't get it before

You might be right. Like I said, Hillary's looking at long odds right now. But don't expect the Clintons to just go away.

And, this was not exactly a coronation for St. Barack. It was a pretty tight race. But, yeah, I think the Golden Child gets it in the end.

[ClingingMars]

So there is a vast right-wing conspiracy!

Great job proving Hillary right! :rollin

not a conspiracy when the democrats did the exact same thing in crossing over and voting for McCain. except with the D primaries, there's not a dimes difference between the candidates.

- Mars

[boutons_]

http://images.politico.com/global/v3/homelogo.gif (http://www.politico.com/)

Under Clinton's rules, Obama still wins

By: David Paul Kuhn and Avi Zenilman


May 10, 2008 06:08 PM EST


Barack Obama can fully accept Hillary Rodham Clinton’s terms on Michigan and Florida and still win a majority of pledged Democratic delegates on June 1, allowing him to lay claim to the nomination under the New York senator’s own rules.

A Politico analysis of the delegate numbers after Tuesday’s primaries in North Carolina and Indiana shows Obama can concede to Clinton’s position on Michigan and Florida and still claim victory

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10247 (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10247.html).html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10247.html)

.

[ClingingMars]

the superdelegates still come into play. also, if she wins florida and michigan, she can claim that she has the popular vote, thus causing controversy.

:corn:

- Mars

[ChumpDumper]

not a conspiracy when the democrats did the exact same thing in crossing over and voting for McCain. except with the D primaries, there's not a dimes difference between the candidates.

- MarsI don't remember its being such an organized conspiracy announced on the airwaves for months. If it were, both would be conspiracies. got no problem with that characterization if it's true.

[MannyIsGod]

Told you this shit was over a long time ago.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not officially over till the super delegates VOTE at the convention.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not officially over till the super delegates VOTE at the convention.

Keep the wishful thinking up.

[CosmicCowboy]

Keep the wishful thinking up.

LOL

I'm DELIGHTED he is the Democratic candidate. Hillary wins the popular vote and virtually all the swing states that will be needed in November and HE gets the win? :lmao

Last time I checked they didn't have "super delegates" in the general election.

[ElNono]

LOL

I'm DELIGHTED he is the Democratic candidate. Hillary wins the popular vote and virtually all the swing states that will be needed in November and HE gets the win? :lmao

Last time I checked they didn't have "super delegates" in the general election.

Not that winning the popular vote matters in the general election anyways...

[Wild Cobra]

LOL

I'm DELIGHTED he is the Democratic candidate. Hillary wins the popular vote and virtually all the swing states that will be needed in November and HE gets the win? :lmao

Last time I checked they didn't have "super delegates" in the general election.

I heard that if the democrats did a winner takes all for each state, that Hillary would have won!

Never know, the demonrats might decide to select Hill;ary at the convention. It could cause a civil war within the party.... All the better.... Operation Chaos may have worked!

[Don Quixote]

I'm actually pretty confident that Operation Chaos worked. It's goal was NEVER to get a particular candidate nominated, but only to slow down the Obama media luv-fest. And who better to attack anyone than the Clintons? It worked beautifully. The Dems are about to nominate someone who is now known to be a radical lefty, the likes of which almost always get smeared in national elections.

Should we celebrate? Not really. Our candidate is no conservative, and we face more losses in Congress in the fall. McCain himself might lose. Perhaps it will be these losses that prompt the GOP to, to use Old Testament language, tear down their idols and high places (quit trying to be Democrats) and return to the Lord their God (return to their conservative roots).

This election looks alot like 1976. We might yet see Carter's second term.

[smeagol]

Hillary works for the Repubs . . .

[Extra Stout]

Should we celebrate? Not really. Our candidate is no conservative, and we face more losses in Congress in the fall. McCain himself might lose. Perhaps it will be these losses that prompt the GOP to, to use Old Testament language, tear down their idols and high places (quit trying to be Democrats) and return to the Lord their God (return to their conservative roots).
Is this what they're teaching at SBC seminaries these days?

[Don Quixote]

No, the opinion is all mine. Thank you ...