Defending and Rebounding: One has nothing to do with the other!

[LakeShow]

I had this discussion a few years ago and I've heard some great arguments for and against. Since i see so many flip flop on the subject here I thought I'd get your thoughts on the subject. This is just my opinion!

Example of what I've witnessed here, One poster would say that just because a person is a good rebounder that it does not mean that they're a good defender. Another poster would say that a player should be credited for playing defense because they get defensive rebounds.

I agree with the first poster. Defense and Rebounds have nothing to do with each other. I say it for several reasons.

For one, Rebounding has it own stats and definition. If they were the same it would not be a separation.

2. Defending ends when a shot goes up and then Rebounding comes into play. Rebounds bounce all over the place, when players take 3's their shots most likely will bounce long, you have guards just standing out at the top of the key picking their noses and the ball bounces right to them. Should he be credited with making a defensive play because he got the rebound on the defensive end? I don't think so.

You have players that tip the ball because they can not reach it, it falls into another players hands away from the play. Should that player be credited with playing good defense because he ended up with a defensive rebound?

3. When playing defense players will face their opponents but once a shot goes up, players immediately turn their backs on the player that they're defending to to position themselves to block out for rebounds. You don't play defense by turning your back on the person you are defending. Thus we're now into the rebounding aspect of the game.

We have players that were great rebounder's but poor defenders. Dennis Rodman, probably the best rebounder ever did play good defense also, but you have players like Battier that is a very good defensive player who is not a good rebounder.

Some have argued that it has to be all tied together because you have a stat for Defensive and Offensive Rebounds. I'm one to believe that A defensive Rebound is just a rebound on the opponents basket, it has nothing to do with Defending. An offensive rebound is just a rebound on your end of the court. It has nothing to do with offense in general.

You have Team Rebounds, which are rebounds that goes out of bounds on the defensive end. Are we to assume because a player takes a shot and it goes over the backboard or out of bounds that that team played good defense. No, we're not, Imo

I believe that you can not combine the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_(basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_%28basketball))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense

Thoughts?

[Matchman]

one needs to look no further than last nights Rockets vs Jazz game, the Rockets play great defense but lost the game on the rebounding battle.

[ShoogarBear]

On an individual level, a good defender is not necessarily a good rebounder. A good rebounder is more likely to be a good defender, but this is not always true, either.

On a team level, if you play good defense but don't get the rebound, then the effort is wasted.

[m33p0]

you do have to argue that a defensive rebound means an end of possession for the team on offense. getting defensive rebounds is all about positioning and imposing one's will. this is especially true when the rebound was done in traffic.

[JamStone]

Defensive rebounding is a vital aspect of an effective overall team defense. Good rebounding doesn't necessarily mean good defense and vice versa, but it usually does, and there is some correlation.

Someone who has a great handle and can get into the lane easily could be considered a good offensive player. But, if that same player has a bad jumper and often makes bad passes, he's incomplete as an offensive player.

Rebounding is similar in that it's only one aspect of defense. But, more times than not, it's a very important aspect of defense.

[K-State Spur]

it would be more accurate to say that one has little (not nothing) to do with the other.

giving up offensive boards can lead to easy put backs which hurt team defense.

[Cry Havoc]

I had this discussion a few years ago and I've heard some great arguments for and against. Since i see so many flip flop on the subject here I thought I'd get your thoughts on the subject. This is just my opinion!

Example of what I've witnessed here, One poster would say that just because a person is a good rebounder that it does not mean that they're a good defender. Another poster would say that a player should be credited for playing defense because they get defensive rebounds.

I agree with the first poster. Defense and Rebounds have nothing to do with each other. I say it for several reasons.

For one, Rebounding has it own stats and definition. If they were the same it would not be a separation.

2. Defending ends when a shot goes up and then Rebounding comes into play. Rebounds bounce all over the place, when players take 3's their shots most likely will bounce long, you have guards just standing out at the top of the key picking their noses and the ball bounces right to them. Should he be credited with making a defensive play because he got the rebound on the defensive end? I don't think so.

You have players that tip the ball because they can not reach it, it falls into another players hands away from the play. Should that player be credited with playing good defense because he ended up with a defensive rebound?

3. When playing defense players will face their opponents but once a shot goes up, players immediately turn their backs on the player that they're defending to to position themselves to block out for rebounds. You don't play defense by turning your back on the person you are defending. Thus we're now into the rebounding aspect of the game.

We have players that were great rebounder's but poor defenders. Dennis Rodman, probably the best rebounder ever did play good defense also, but you have players like Battier that is a very good defensive player who is not a good rebounder.

Some have argued that it has to be all tied together because you have a stat for Defensive and Offensive Rebounds. I'm one to believe that A defensive Rebound is just a rebound on the opponents basket, it has nothing to do with Defending. An offensive rebound is just a rebound on your end of the court. It has nothing to do with offense in general.

You have Team Rebounds, which are rebounds that goes out of bounds on the defensive end. Are we to assume because a player takes a shot and it goes over the backboard or out of bounds that that team played good defense. No, we're not, Imo

I believe that you can not combine the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_(basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_%28basketball))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense

Thoughts?

Two very simple questions with simple answers.

What's the purpose of playing defense?

To prevent the opponent from scoring.

Can you do this without rebounding?

No.

You could be the best defender in the world but if you don't box out your man, and he gets the putback, guess what? You suck at defense, because he just scored on you.

And yes, rebounds fly everywhere, but if that negated the effect of good rebounders, you wouldn't see players like Duncan and Garnett posting 10+ rebounds every year. Ensuring your man is out of position to score (a la, not getting any easy rebounds underneath for a bunny putback) is part of the core of a good defense. If you box out your man well, you should be outrebounding him as well.

[LakeShow]

You all make very good points. I'm going to try to make a case for what I believe as far as this goes,

In the game of basketball there are 3 constants. Offense, Defense and Rebounds. Those are the only constants that have to occur to play the game. There are several different offenses, defenses and rebounding in a game. I believe that when the shot goes up you immediately move to protecting the rebound. It has nothing to do with the defense that you played, it's bad rebounding. Someone mention that if you play good defense and you don't box out and get the rebound, it's bad defense. I don't agree with that.

Boxing out is a technique that you use when rebounding. It is important that players position themselves in the best spot to get the rebound. If you don't box out and give up an offensive rebound, thats bad rebounding, not defense. imo

Defensive rebounds", in which the defending team gains possession of the loose ball. Most rebounds are defensive because the team on defense tends to be in better position (in other words, closer to the basket) to recover missed shots.



Boxing out
Boxing out is a technique used in basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball) to obtain rebounds. A player boxes out another player by positioning himself between the other player and the basket. The action can also be called "blocking out" or "butting-out". A team can be boxed out by several players using this technique to stop other players from crashing the boards and therefore stopping the opposing team from obtaining said rebound.

[LakeShow]

it would be more accurate to say that one has little (not nothing) to do with the other.

giving up offensive boards can lead to easy put backs which hurt team defense.

Ok, if you think that would be more accurate, so be it.

I stated above that giving up offensive boards that led to put backs, bad rebounding. Defense forced the misses while playing defense. the trouble with put backs was bad rebounding that allowed offensive rebounds.

[LakeShow]

Defensive rebounding is a vital aspect of an effective overall team defense. Good rebounding doesn't necessarily mean good defense and vice versa, but it usually does, and there is some correlation.

Someone who has a great handle and can get into the lane easily could be considered a good offensive player. But, if that same player has a bad jumper and often makes bad passes, he's incomplete as an offensive player.

Rebounding is similar in that it's only one aspect of defense. But, more times than not, it's a very important aspect of defense.

Matchman made a good point where the Rockets played great defense but lost the rebounding battle. I believe you can distinguish the two. When rebounding the ball is loose and where it goes, nobody knows but when defending the ball is controlled by the offensive team, and you're playing the player with the ball. You have no idea who will end up with the ball on rebounds.

[Findog]

Part of defense is getting rebounds and preventing the other team from getting second-chance points.

[LakeShow]

Part of defense is getting rebounds and preventing the other team from getting second-chance points.

Hey Findog. Would you say that boxing out does the same thing?

[Findog]

Hey Findog. Would you say that boxing out does the same thing?


It certainly helps. But you can get a rebound in traffic without boxing out. Some guys have a knack for it and a "nose for the ball."

[LakeShow]

It certainly helps. But you can get a rebound in traffic without boxing out. Some guys have a knack for it and a "nose for the ball."

True, I would have to call those good rebounders, ala dennis rodman, but how about this. When the shot goes up and the defense is facing the basket waiting for the rebound. Who are they defending at that time?

[boutons_]

rebounding and defense both take hustle and smarts, essentially get to the correct position quickly and stay correct as the play evolves.

They aren't the same skill nor are they connected.

Bruce defends way above average but is a below average rebounder.

[Kobe62Mavs61]

True, I would have to call those good rebounders, ala dennis rodman, but how about this. When the shot goes up and the defense is facing the basket waiting for the rebound. Who are they defending at that time?

Kool! Thats a good point! Way to represent Lakeshow! :toast

[Kobe62Mavs61]

I never thought about this before but now that I have, it is different! When we go to the park to post up players we always make sure we pick someone big who can rebound. We play defense and let him get the rebounds.

[LakeShow]

rebounding and defense both take hustle and smarts, essentially get to the correct position quickly and stay correct as the play evolves.

They aren't the same skill nor are they connected.

Bruce defends way above average but is a below average rebounder.

I'm glad to see someone else agrees. :D I thought I was on my own again. I once took on a whole forum on this subject.

[LakeShow]

I never thought about this before but now that I have, it is different! When we go to the park to post up players we always make sure we pick someone big who can rebound. We play defense and let him get the rebounds.

That's what I'm talking about!

[The Franchise]

On an individual level, a good defender is not necessarily a good rebounder. A good rebounder is more likely to be a good defender, but this is not always true, either.

On a team level, if you play good defense but don't get the rebound, then the effort is wasted.

What he said.

[Kobe62Mavs61]

What he said.

That is why you make sure you have a rebounder on your team! If you played good defense. You played good defense. If you got beat up on the boards, your reb. sucked!