How do you counter Boris Diaw guarding Parker, and the Suns now playing Tri Towers.

[T Park]

How do you counter D'Antoni's adjustments?

Boris is causing matchup problems, and hes long and quick enough to give Parker problems.

IMO this was the troubling revelation from the game.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Start Manu?

[Xylus]

It's about fucking time D'Antoni went to the Tri-Tower (nice term, btw) lineup. D'Antoni posted Diaw up all game long, and Diaw's our most qualified defender against Parker.

[Kori Ellis]

Diaw guarded Tony for a lot of game 3 as well, but Parker knocked down his J's. The Spurs just have to hit their shots.

[Xylus]

Diaw guarded Tony for a lot of game 3 as well, but Parker knocked down his J's. The Spurs just have to hit their shots.

Everyone guarded Parker in Game 3. It was one of those rare games where nothing could deny him. He'll play well in Game 5, but 17-26 shooting will not happen again.

[Emanuel20]

How do you counter D'Antoni's adjustments?

Boris is causing matchup problems, and hes long and quick enough to give Parker problems.

IMO this was the troubling revelation from the game.

I just think that Tony is too good to back down so next time he will use his greatest strenght, his speed and he will take to Diaw. I just hope that Finley and Manu make it hard for Diaw to post on them.

[Emanuel20]

Diaw guarded Tony for a lot of game 3 as well, but Parker knocked down his J's. The Spurs just have to hit their shots.


That's correct. This game tony did not get into rhythm and that hurt him.

[redskinfan]

lets face it the good guys did not get any favorable calls today. I believe parker can get by Diaw and get him in foul trouble thus getting the edge back for Spurs and end this on tuesday

[Kori Ellis]

Everyone guarded Parker in Game 3. It was one of those rare games where nothing could deny him. He'll play well in Game 5, but 17-26 shooting will not happen again.

No, I don't think it will happen again either. I'm just saying that Diaw wasn't that big of a deal on Parker today. Tony just missed some shots that he normally makes (a lot of the Spurs did). Tim played super weak around the rim for most of the game. And Manu and Tony were turnover machines due to laziness and the Suns being more aggressive.

[E20]

This acutally might be good to address right now
in case we play the Lakers (Bynum, Pau, Odom), that's if Bynum plays these PO's.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

If Parker doesn't get his game back on track against Diaw the Spurs are in deep shit

[Allanon]

If Parker can't make jumpshots, there will be some major problems. Diaw obviously can't keep up with Tony but if he forces him into jumpshots, that can be it right there.

This game it looked like the Suns were committed to no easy layups...if you're coming in, you get a hard foul.

If Tony's J isn't falling, it's really up to Manu who has been mostly MIA in this series.

[E20]

If Parker can't make jumpshots, there will be some major problems. Diaw obviously can't keep up with Tony but if he forces him into jumpshots, that can be it right there.

This game it looked like the Suns were committed to no easy layups...if you're coming in, you get a hard foul.

If Tony's J isn't falling, it's really up to Manu who has been mostly MIA in this series.

Manu has been averaging ~25 PPG 4 APG 4 RPG. He's being overshadowed by Duncan's and Parkers 40 point performances.

[superfedja]

How do you counter the tri towers?

You start Ime Udoka instead of Finley... that way bowen can guard Nash, Udoka can guard Diaw.... that way u got 2 guys who can get to the rim (TD and TP) and 3 shooters who can shoot if they double them (udoka, bowen, thomas)... so the offense is covered and look at the HUGE defensive line-up (TP, Bowen, Ime, Kurt, TD) ... with this line-up and their defense we will be able to run a lot (imagine all the steals, blocks and boarde control)... and a froncourt of TD, Thomas and Udoka can run.... and Shaq won't be able to follow... did u see him holding his knees at the end of game 4????

[Kori Ellis]

If Parker can't make jumpshots, there will be some major problems. Diaw obviously can't keep up with Tony but if he forces him into jumpshots, that can be it right there.

This game it looked like the Suns were committed to no easy layups...if you're coming in, you get a hard foul.

If Tony's J isn't falling, it's really up to Manu who has been mostly MIA in this series.

Tony actually got inside more today than he did in Game 3. Parker only had 2 layups in game 3. Today, he was actually able to penetrate a lot more. He had a lot of shots rim out and was careless with the ball in the first half. Once he got out of sync, he never really got back on track.

I'm not really worried about Parker though .. he scored 18 in 3 quarters. The rest of the Spurs have to step up.

[dbreiden83080]

No, I don't think it will happen again either. I'm just saying that Diaw wasn't that big of a deal on Parker today. Tony just missed some shots that he normally makes (a lot of the Spurs did). Tim played super weak around the rim for most of the game. And Manu and Tony were turnover machines due to laziness and the Suns being more aggressive.

Exactly and the game was lost in the first qtr. Spurs seemed to feel like Suns were broken mentallly and were going to hand this thing to them. They hit the Spurs in the mouth right away with agression on both ends and the Spurs never got in rythm. They will be ready for game 5.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tony, like everyone in silver and black, was just off.

Still, if you're worried about defense, the obvious thing would be to throw some zone at them, something like a triangle and two. You could keep perimeter players on Nash and Raja, and then have three guys to clutter things up against Diaw, Shaq, and Amare.

The glaring thing to address today was Michael Finley's shitty ass defense. If he isn't going to give us anything on offense and is going to get lit up like the fourth of July by Bell, Diaw, and Amare (WTF was he doing on Amare?!?!?!), he shouldn't be in the damn game.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Manu is home, so I expect a huge game from him

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Manu has been averaging ~25 PPG 4 APG 4 RPG. He's being overshadowed by Duncan's and Parkers 40 point performances.

Pop's been preserving him I think. He hasn't really called his number much this series after game 1 and game 2. In games 1 and 2 he took 20 + shots.

The last two games he's just been picking and choosing.

[Kori Ellis]

Pop's been preserving him I think. He hasn't really called his number much this series after game 1 and game 2. In games 1 and 2 he took 20 + shots.

The last two games he's just been picking and choosing.

Pop hasn't been preserving him. :lol Pop would have loved him to step up in this game. Manu was just off track like everyone else today. He's also banged up but so are Tony and Tim.

[timvp]

How do you counter Boris Diaw guarding Parker, and the Suns now playing Tri Towers.Offensively, you run. The Spurs are now the quicker team from end to end. Make Diaw chase Parker. If Diaw is going to postup, get the outlet pass to Parker and push the break. Diaw won't be able to defend him if the Spurs push the pace.

Defensively, it sounds weird but I'd think about putting Finley on Stoudemire and let the bigs guard Shaq and Diaw. When Finley was with the Mavs, he had success against Stoudemire. While he obviously didn't have success today, Finley isn't much worse than putting Oberto on him. Tell Finley to make Stoudemire shoot, take Diaw and Shaq out of the equation and just hope that the Suns don't shoot lights out again.

[Allanon]

Manu has been getting his points but he's not been a game-changer like Timmy or Parker except for that layup in game 1. You can tell Tony and Tim are in Playoff mode, Manu still looks like he's in the regular season...it could be that nagging groin injury.

As for Tony penetrating, he's getting in but also taking a pounding now if he goes in. Diaw is stepping back from him giving him the J. Tony either gets into a shooting groove or he doesn't. If he can get that J falling, the Spurs should easily dispatch of the Suns in game 5, if he doesn't I don't think he'll be much of a factor.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Pop hasn't been preserving him. :lol Pop would have loved him to step up in this game. Manu was just off track like everyone else today. He's also banged up but so are Tony and Tim.

Oh, well , it looked like it because I thought he wasn't almost going to play in game 2. In game 3, he was with his 11 shots and 8 shots and they were going to call more plays for Tony this series.

[Xylus]

Defensively, it sounds weird but I'd think about putting Finley on Stoudemire and let the bigs guard Shaq and Diaw. When Finley was with the Mavs, he had success against Stoudemire. While he obviously didn't have success today, Finley isn't much worse than putting Oberto on him. Tell Finley to make Stoudemire shoot, take Diaw and Shaq out of the equation and just hope that the Suns don't shoot lights out again.

:wow

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Manu has been getting his points but he's not been a game-changer like Timmy or Parker except for that layup in game 1. You can tell Tony and Tim are in Playoff mode, Manu still looks like he's in the regular season...it could be that nagging groin injury.

As for Tony penetrating, he's getting in but also taking a pounding now if he goes in. Diaw is stepping back from him giving him the J. Tony either gets into a shooting groove or he doesn't. If he can get that J falling, the Spurs should easily dispatch of the Suns in game 5, if he doesn't I don't think he'll be much of a factor.

I disagree , Manu changed game 2 in our favor in the first half. Putting up 15, and finishing 29 points. We didn't really need him in game 3.

Today both Timmy and Manu didn't pitch in as much. And Manu and Tony made a lot of mistakes.

[DazedAndConfused]

The biggest difference was that in Game 3 nearly all of Parker's shots were uncontested. Parker probably makes 80-90% of those shots in the practice gym, so I wasn't surprised he went off like that.

Game 4 the Suns as a team made more of an effort to pressure the ball and it made all the difference for them. When they put forth the energy and hustle like they did today the Suns are a tough team to beat. Fortunately for the Spurs they can't do this 3 games straight.

[Findog]

How do you counter D'Antoni's adjustments?

Boris is causing matchup problems, and hes long and quick enough to give Parker problems.

IMO this was the troubling revelation from the game.

Diaw is a pussy that can't be counted on from game to game. He had his one good performance and can go back to sucking now.

[dbreiden83080]

Finley isn't much worse than putting Oberto on him. Tell Finley to make Stoudemire shoot, take Diaw and Shaq out of the equation and just hope that the Suns don't shoot lights out again.

Uh yes he is worse than Oberto because he is a lot shorter and Amare will just back him down and dunk on Finley 20 times in a row if no help comes.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Manu has been getting his points but he's not been a game-changer like Timmy or Parker except for that layup in game 1. You can tell Tony and Tim are in Playoff mode, Manu still looks like he's in the regular season...it could be that nagging groin injury.

As for Tony penetrating, he's getting in but also taking a pounding now if he goes in. Diaw is stepping back from him giving him the J. Tony either gets into a shooting groove or he doesn't. If he can get that J falling, the Spurs should easily dispatch of the Suns in game 5, if he doesn't I don't think he'll be much of a factor.

yeah... that, or the fact Bell is a much, much better defender than what Tony has been facing lately. Don't get me wrong, I don't think even Bruce could have stopped Tony on game 3, the way he was playing, but Tony's match ups this series are a lot better than Manu's. Bell seems give Manu a lot of trouble lately. This series, Manu seems to be moving in slow motion.

[Pero]

Manu has been getting his points but he's not been a game-changer like Timmy or Parker except for that layup in game 1.

Akhm, that game he was also the facilitator of Finley's and Tim's game tying three pointers.

[spursfan09]

Starting Diaw was a good move. Spurs need to counter. I just think the Suns came out with such high energy, and that first quarter seemed to go by so fast. It was over before I and the Spurs even knew it.

[Pero]

Starting Diaw was a fluke move.

Fixed.

[DazedAndConfused]

The real problem for SAS is none of their role players are stepping up. The Big 3 are averaging something like 83 pts a game, that is incredible production from 3 players. But it's a double-edged sword if a team can slow down 2 out of the 3.

[Kori Ellis]

yeah... that, or the fact Bell is a much, much better defender than what Tony has been facing lately. Don't get me wrong, I don't think even Bruce could have stopped Tony on game 3, the way he was playing, but Tony's match ups this series are a lot better than Manu's.

In game 3, they played Bell, Diaw, Hill and Nash against Tony. No one was going to stop him. But this series, you are right that they are calling more plays for Tony than during the season. It might be that way all playoffs long as they try to burn teams with his speed, Pop wants him to shoot 25 times a game.

[timvp]

Uh yes he is worse than Oberto because he is a lot shorter and Amare will just back him down and dunk on Finley 20 times in a row if no help comes.Finley has had past success against Stoudemire. Oberto has never been able to guard Stoudemire. Finley today for some unknown reason was going for pumpfakes. If Finley holds his ground and makes Stoudemire shoot, that'd be the same defense Oberto employs.

[Xylus]

Finley has had past success against Stoudemire. Oberto has never been able to guard Stoudemire. Finley today for some unknown reason was going for pumpfakes. If Finley holds his ground and makes Stoudemire shoot, that'd be the same defense Oberto employs.

When has Finley ever had success against Stoudemire? Maybe when Finley was 5 years younger and Stoudemire was a rookie.

Having Finley guard Stoudemire is a recipe for disaster.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

The biggest difference was that in Game 3 nearly all of Parker's shots were uncontested. Parker probably makes 80-90% of those shots in the practice gym, so I wasn't surprised he went off like that.

Game 4 the Suns as a team made more of an effort to pressure the ball and it made all the difference for them. When they put forth the energy and hustle like they did today the Suns are a tough team to beat. Fortunately for the Spurs they can't do this 3 games straight.



expect Diaw to be in Parker's face for EVERY SHOT, in gm3 he was usually wide open

[Allanon]

When has Finley ever had success against Stoudemire? Maybe when Finley was 5 years younger and Stoudemire was a rookie.

Having Finley guard Stoudemire is a recipe for disaster.

I hate the Suns but I gotta agree with this. Amare was getting to the hoop, he was just missing ones he normally would make. Then the Spurs had to throw a 2nd guy down leaving Raja wide open for 3s.

[T Park]

When has Finley ever had success against Stoudemire? Maybe when Finley was 5 years younger and Stoudemire was a rookie.

Having Finley guard Stoudemire is a recipe for disaster.

05....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Like I said earlier....grant Hill getting injured and not playing is the best thing that could possibly happen for the Suns. I think it should have been obvious though that eventually Mike would have exploited the Spurs fatal weakness: size at the 3 spot.

[E20]

Finley wasn't on the Spurs in 05. Unless if you meant when the Mavs played the Phoenix in the WCSF.

[timvp]

When has Finley ever had success against Stoudemire? Maybe when Finley was 5 years younger and Stoudemire was a rookie.

Having Finley guard Stoudemire is a recipe for disaster.Were you a Suns fan in 2005? Stoudemire was destroying the Mavs, averaging like 40 in the first three games. The Mavs switched Finley onto Stoudemire and Stoudemire went down to about 20-22 point per game, IIRC.

2005 Stoudemire was pre-microfracture and even more of an athletic freak. Finley guarded him better than anyone else in that year's playoffs, including Duncan, Nazr, Dampier, Dirk and Gasol.

[nfg3]

Game 4 the Suns as a team made more of an effort to pressure the ball and it made all the difference for them. When they put forth the energy and hustle like they did today the Suns are a tough team to beat. Fortunately for the Spurs they can't do this 3 games straight.

They dung themselves too deep a hole and wont be able to get out of it. Great game from them today but 4 games in a row like that? Seriously doubt it. Anyway it helps that the Spurs, as a team, collectively were off. I don't think it was all Suns but I give them creidt for much of it. We didn't seem to really have our heads in this game and it was puzzling to me why they came out so unfocused. Missed opportunity. Pop is going to use this to the his advantage. I'd love to be at this film session! :lol

[td4mvp21]

Not Finley :lol I say Bowen. Bowen is taller than both Udoka and Finley, and more physical than either of them. Having Bowen on Diaw isn't any worse than having Udoka or Finley on him. Then put Finley on Bell and Parker on Nash. Bell won't have 27 points again.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think Pop foresaw what Mike would do in this game. He let Boris have his dominant game, but did not count on Raja Bell going completely awol. (He should have, given that Raja Bell plays like an elite 3 point shooter almost every god damn time we play him)

I think Pop already started brainstorming his game 5 gameplan during this game. Hopefully he did anyways. We need to throw some kind of different look next game to catch the Suns off guard, because chances are they will stick with the same strategy until it does not work in game.

[DazedAndConfused]

Finley guarding Amare? I don't know if we were watching the same game, but from what I saw that move would result in Amare dunking over Finley about 20 times.

[T Park]

Were you a Suns fan in 2005? Stoudemire was destroying the Mavs, averaging like 40 in the first three games. The Mavs switched Finley onto Stoudemire and Stoudemire went down to about 20-22 point per game, IIRC.

2005 Stoudemire was pre-microfracture and even more of an athletic freak. Finley guarded him better than anyone else in that year's playoffs, including Duncan, Nazr, Dampier, Dirk and Gasol.


Yeah and Finley, other than the one dunk, guarded Stoudamire pretty damn well in that 3rd quarter.

[timvp]

You gotta put a big on Diaw. The only non-big who had success against Diaw coming into this game was Manu ... but Diaw figured out Manu too in Game 4. You put a small on Diaw and his post moves are too refined. In fact, he has better post moves than either Shaq or Amare.

He's also the best passer of the three so you can't put a small on him and then double him. He'll eat you alive. There's no other answer other than putting a big on him. That leaves a small on Stoudemire ... unless the Spurs want to use Horry at small forward.

The Suns finally figured out the Spurs' main weakness is not having a Long Three. Spurs fans hoped Udoka would be the guy who could guard the bulkier small forwards but that hasn't been the case. Diaw has abused Udoka even more than other players.

[td4mvp21]

Finley guarding Amare? I don't know if we were watching the same game, but from what I saw that move would result in Amare dunking over Finley about 20 times.

Really? Because he didn't do that when Finley was on him today.

[T Park]

Finley guarding Amare? I don't know if we were watching the same game, but from what I saw that move would result in Amare dunking over Finley about 20 times.


On that one play.

What did Stoudamire do the next 3 times.

Miss
miss
pass

[timvp]

Finley guarding Amare? I don't know if we were watching the same game, but from what I saw that move would result in Amare dunking over Finley about 20 times.NBA fan in 2005 much?

[T Park]

Diaw has abused Udoka even more than other players.

The last meeting of the regular season, and games 1 through 4 have proven that.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

No offense, cuz I love the guy, but Horry looked horrible out there today!

Horry on Shaq I would like though.

[TMTTRIO]

If Tony's J isn't falling, it's really up to Manu who has been mostly MIA in this series.
Actually Manu's done a pretty good job showing up considering he's been the third option (behind Tony and Timmy) and playing on a bad ankle.

[DazedAndConfused]

This is 2008, not 2005. If you haven't noticed Finley is not a lockdown defender by any means anymore. Who exactly has he shutdown this season? If anything he gets lit up by whomever he is guarding.

The shots Amare missed were point blank gimmes from 2-3 feet away, he won't miss many of those if given the opportunity. I'm not sure what the solution is for Diaw, but I can guarantee you it won't be to put Finley on Amare and Oberto on Diaw.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

No offense, cuz I love the guy, but Horry looked horrible out there today!

Horry on Shaq I would like though.



Horry in the game was just desperation from Pop, he knew they were done



so if the Spurs are getting killed why not give Horry some time under his legs ??

[yavozerb]

Is bonner even alive? The has not even got a whiff of PT this whole series..Lets see what he can do since horry is still searching for his "O" and now his "D"...

[timvp]

If you haven't noticed Finley is not a lockdown defender by any means anymore. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Anymore? Finley has never been a lockdown defender. He has always been a poor defender. But that doesn't take away past success. Finley is slower but so is Amare.

[Allanon]

Actually Manu's done a pretty good job showing up considering he's been the third option (behind Tony and Timmy) and playing on a bad ankle.

Manu's had a stellar season, better than Timmy and Tony, I guess I just raised my expectations too high. :D I just feel that Tony and TImmy have played much better than Manu this series but I guess that's normal, I just forgot he is a 3rd option.

[td4mvp21]

Bonner on Diaw? :lol

[Kori Ellis]

Is bonner even alive? ...

He's been in street clothes the last few games in favor of keeping Damon active.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm very surprised Mike has not exploited our lack of a small 3 earlier, because Diaw has been chode regulating Udoka from game 1.

[yavozerb]

Not Finley :lol I say Bowen. Bowen is taller than both Udoka and Finley, and more physical than either of them. Having Bowen on Diaw isn't any worse than having Udoka or Finley on him. Then put Finley on Bell and Parker on Nash. Bell won't have 27 points again.

Now you want to put the spurs #1 defender on a sub starter cause of 1 good game...:lol

[BonnerDynasty]

I'm more worried about the Suns posting up finley every time down the road.

Can't double Diaw and give help to finley b/c of the pass to Shaq or Amare.

[td4mvp21]

Now you want to put the spurs #1 defender on a sub starter cause of 1 good game...:lol

It may have been 1 good game but he's gotten what he wanted this entire series. Who would you suggest?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'm very surprised Mike has not exploited our lack of a small 3 earlier, because Diaw has been chode regulating Udoka from game 1.

He's actually been trying to since game 2. the last two games Diaw missed most of his shots and fucked up possessions :lol

[DazedAndConfused]

If I'm the Spurs I bank on Diaw laying an egg in at least one of the next 3 games. Take your chances with that rather than try and retool your entire gameplan to beat the Suns.

[T Park]

If I'm the Spurs I bank on Diaw laying an egg in at least one of the next 3 games. Take your chances with that rather than try and retool your entire gameplan to beat the Suns.

Your not retooling anything.

Your adjusting to D'Antoni's starting 5.

[GSH]

I know I am going to get hammered by some of the Spurs fans for this. (I really don't give a damn what the trolls say or think.) But Pop is going to have to work the refs over about 3 second calls in the next game, and hope he can get them to call it. The Suns left one of their bigs camped in the paint, playing center field, for a large part of the game. The perimeter defenders got in front of Tony and Manu, and fed them right up the middle into a waiting Shaq and/or Amare. It's a lot easier for Shaq to get position when he doesn't have to move.

When they were sitting in the paint, they kept extending their arms, pretending like they were within arm's reach of the person they were "defending". Sometimes it was just ridiculous, because there was no one close to arm's reach, and hadn't been. Don't get me wrong. It's a great strategy if you can pull it off.

The Spurs are going to have to knock down some jumpers, but I think it will be especially important for Tim to knock down some of those 15-footers off the glass to force the Phoenix bigs to come out a little. Tim got upset several times because he got hacked on the arms when he was trying to shoot those shots in the paint. Right or wrong, it's easier for a ref to no-call when there is so much contact going on in the paint. If that same contact occurs when Shaq is isolated on Tim away from the basket, they won't have any choice but to blow a few whistles.

[Magic_Johnson]

Diaw is a pussy that can't be counted on from game to game. He had his one good performance and can go back to sucking now.

you're right he was a pussy against the mavs in 2006.

[PlayoffEx-static]

Everyone guarded Parker in Game 3. It was one of those rare games where nothing could deny him. He'll play well in Game 5, but 17-26 shooting will not happen again.

Cleveland said that every game last year in the Finals. :)

Diaw has caused matchup problems every game, and if Bell is going to hit those shots, we're going to struggle. Fortunately, I think Tony has another one of HIS type games coming before Bell does his Ray Allen impression again.

[clubalien]

How do you counter D'Antoni's adjustments?

Boris is causing matchup problems, and hes long and quick enough to give Parker problems.

IMO this was the troubling revelation from the game.

putting ian on him would be intresting

[SpurOutofTownFan]

How do you counter D'Antoni's adjustments?

Boris is causing matchup problems, and hes long and quick enough to give Parker problems.

IMO this was the troubling revelation from the game.

The Spurs need to hit their shots - that's it, if they do that, the whole tritowers myth will be just that, a myth.

[MannyIsGod]

Offensively, you run. The Spurs are now the quicker team from end to end. Make Diaw chase Parker. If Diaw is going to postup, get the outlet pass to Parker and push the break. Diaw won't be able to defend him if the Spurs push the pace.

Defensively, it sounds weird but I'd think about putting Finley on Stoudemire and let the bigs guard Shaq and Diaw. When Finley was with the Mavs, he had success against Stoudemire. While he obviously didn't have success today, Finley isn't much worse than putting Oberto on him. Tell Finley to make Stoudemire shoot, take Diaw and Shaq out of the equation and just hope that the Suns don't shoot lights out again.

Eh - I don't really like the idea of Finely playing defense on Stodamire over Diaw. He's not the same player that he was when Finely guarded him before. He has a much better jumpshot which is just going to let him use his length to blow by Finely.

I'm not too worried about Diaw either. If they're going to run the offense through him and he's going to beat us, then so be it. But I don't think he'll produce at this rate by any means. He's long and he'll be able to get shots but the answer to all of this is positioning. You can't let him catch the ball too close to the rim. If he's going to drive then you can bring weak side help. The problem with that is that you leave Amare and Shaq to clean up the offensive boards, but that all sounds much better to me than Stodamire going against Finely.

Either way, the tempo in this series is always set by the Spurs on the offensive end. If they don't allow the Suns to run off of turnovers then they usually do fine. It really wasn't a D'Antoni adjustment that won ths game but rather the horrible first quarter start with six give aways that led to the Suns jumping all over the Spurs. Then, you couple that with a 2nd quarter where Bell stemed the Spurs run all by himself then you have a game thats out of hand and a Suns team playing with confidence.

This game was lost on first quarter turnovers and poor play.

[MannyIsGod]

I know I am going to get hammered by some of the Spurs fans for this. (I really don't give a damn what the trolls say or think.) But Pop is going to have to work the refs over about 3 second calls in the next game, and hope he can get them to call it. The Suns left one of their bigs camped in the paint, playing center field, for a large part of the game. The perimeter defenders got in front of Tony and Manu, and fed them right up the middle into a waiting Shaq and/or Amare. It's a lot easier for Shaq to get position when he doesn't have to move.

When they were sitting in the paint, they kept extending their arms, pretending like they were within arm's reach of the person they were "defending". Sometimes it was just ridiculous, because there was no one close to arm's reach, and hadn't been. Don't get me wrong. It's a great strategy if you can pull it off.

The Spurs are going to have to knock down some jumpers, but I think it will be especially important for Tim to knock down some of those 15-footers off the glass to force the Phoenix bigs to come out a little. Tim got upset several times because he got hacked on the arms when he was trying to shoot those shots in the paint. Right or wrong, it's easier for a ref to no-call when there is so much contact going on in the paint. If that same contact occurs when Shaq is isolated on Tim away from the basket, they won't have any choice but to blow a few whistles.

I think there are some solid things being said here as well. The Suns bigs really did just take up residence in the lane. The spacing you need isn't going to come if you never take the midrange jumpers that are given to you when that happens but instead continue to force it right into their defense. Thats what led to the turnovers and bad shots which then turned into easy Suns offense.

When this happens you have stretch and hurt those bigs. You probably have to play small against the lineup and Finley, Barry, or Udoka have to make some shots as well. Tim needs some touches facing the basket and everyone needs to be ready to hit 15 footers off of screens. I did notice that the Suns finally accomplished what most high school basketball players know and stopped going under every screen on a hot shooter but the shots were usually still there.

[Xylus]

Were you a Suns fan in 2005?
No, I was Bucks fan.


Stoudemire was destroying the Mavs, averaging like 40 in the first three games. The Mavs switched Finley onto Stoudemire and Stoudemire went down to about 20-22 point per game, IIRC.

2005 Stoudemire was pre-microfracture and even more of an athletic freak. Finley guarded him better than anyone else in that year's playoffs, including Duncan, Nazr, Dampier, Dirk and Gasol.
After Stoudemire destroyed the Mavs in those first three games, their MO was to double- or triple-team Stoudemire on nearly every possession. It wasn't Finley who had success in Game 4, but Avery Johnson. In Game 5, Stoudemire retaliated by racking up 33 and 18 despite the heavy coverage. In Game 6, Stoudemire had another poor game as a result of Dallas' smothering interior defense, not because of Finley.

Stoudemire has never really had trouble against smaller defenders. It might take Stoudemire a little bit to figure out how to attack a smaller, speedier defender if Pop decides to go that route, but it'll be disastrous in the long run.

Even if Finley did have success in one or two of those games, he's not the same Finley (and Stoudemire has a reliable jumpshot). He'll get torched every time.

[GrandeDavid]

No, I was Bucks fan.

Funny answer to a smart ass question. :lol

[td4mvp21]

Stoudemire has never really had trouble against smaller defenders. It might take Stoudemire a little bit to figure out how to attack a smaller, speedier defender if Pop decides to go that route, but it'll be disastrous in the long run.


We're hoping that this thing won't go the "long run" :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Finley has had past success against Stoudemire. Oberto has never been able to guard Stoudemire. Finley today for some unknown reason was going for pumpfakes. If Finley holds his ground and makes Stoudemire shoot, that'd be the same defense Oberto employs.

He wasn't holding his ground either, he was even backing down before he even got the body bump from Amare. Basically he was just giving Amare an escort to the rim. Pretty fucking lame.

[PlayoffEx-static]

No offense, cuz I love the guy, but Horry looked horrible out there today!

Horry on Shaq I would like though.

This was his first REAL gametime since his injury. I was just glad he didn't go oh-fer like Brent did his fist game. This was time well spent for both of them.

[yavozerb]

Activate Mahinmi damn it! It seems like the french players hold the keys to this series so why not play our 2 to the suns 1.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

On that one play.

What did Stoudamire do the next 3 times.

Miss
miss
pass

Um, yeah, you must have missed the couple of times where Amare just backed him down, he willingly backed down, and Amare got a layup. Think it happened three times...

[bobbyjoe]

You've got to be kidding me if you think Finley is the answer on Stoudemire, so that another big can move to Boris Diaw.

You want to defend Stoudemire with length and physicality. Finley has neither and is 35 yrs old. He's way shorter, slower, and older than Amare.

One thing the Spurs could do without doing something nutty like a scrub defender like Finley on Amare is to move Bowen to Diaw. Parker defends Nash pretty well at times and if you have watched the Suns this yr and this playoffs it's pretty obvious Nash is a shell of his former self.

Also, no way a 35 yr old like Finley has the energy to bang down low with Amare for extended minutes and still have his legs under him to knock down jumpers. He'd also get exposed on the pick n roll due to his lack of footspeed if the Suns just decided to milk the Nash-Amare PNR after seeing an adjustment to the defender on Diaw.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's also funny to suggest Finley could check Amare in the post when he hasn't even been able to consistently stay with Raja on the perimeter, and Raja's just spotting up to shoot.

If you ranked the Spurs players based on their defense so far in this series you'd have to slide in Finley just below The Coyote and just above Stan Kelly. Dude has been useless.

[GSH]

Um, yeah, you must have missed the couple of times where Amare just backed him down, he willingly backed down, and Amare got a layup. Think it happened three times...

Finley isn't going to be able to consistently go 1-on-1 with Diaw or Stoudamire down low. He's going to have to plant earlier and turn them into the help defender in the middle. Too many times he got backed all the way to the circle, and that's too late for anyone to help. (Short of a perfectly timed block attempt.)

[td4mvp21]

Whatever it is, I think Pop will come up with something effective. And I also think he won't focus on Diaw too much and still realize the larger defensive matchups of the series.

[bdictjames]

I hope we win. Go Po

[Spurminator]

I wouldn't change much. If the Suns are relying on career games from Raja Bell and Boris Diaw to beat us three more times, I like our chances. The more they have the ball, the less Nash and Amare have it.

We just need to match their physicality in Game 5. They came out like they had just had two practices with Pat Riley... hacking and shoving and daring the officials to call every foul.

[ducks]

the spurs have to shut down bell and diaw
let nash, amare and shaq get those shut down the rest

[m33p0]

How do you counter Boris Diaw and Raja Bell? don't change a damn thing. let see those 2 win the series by themselves.

[m33p0]

the spurs have to shut down bell and diaw
let nash, amare and shaq get those shut down the rest
seriously?!?:wow

[callo1]

Much to do about nothing.

[ducks]

their big three can not outscore our big three

[my2sons]

did anyone else notice that minor adjustment or experiment pop did on diaw by putting horry on him. I don't believe he scored very much after that. Of course the game was over but something to look for in the next game should that be necessary.

[jpdavis82]

All I know is I cannot WAIT till Tuesday night, should be a great game and if we somehow win this one, then this is going to be a 7 game series. I'll be honest I'm expecting the Spurs to wrap it up, but at least there's that chance that's in my mind and every one of the Suns players that the miracle can still happen.

If the Spurs worry about shutting down Bell and Diaw, then who says Amare, Nash, Shaq, and Barbosa wont pick it up for them.

The key is the Suns D, if they keep up their intensity this could go 7 if not it ends Tuesday.

Hoping for a great game, no injuries, and for the improbable Suns win.

GO SUNS

[tmtcsc]

Diaw won't play like that again. He's inconsistent.

[majinkoola]

Being a Suns fan for about 17 years, I do remember watching Finley guard Amare in '05. And timvp is right, Finley didn't do that bad a job, I remember that pissing me off, that Amare couldn't dominate that matchup. The difference is Amare is way more well rounded now, and Finley is slower. So it might work as a gimmick for a short while but I doubt for long.

I'd say the best matchup on Diaw is Horry. I remember last season Diaw schooled Duncan a few times on post moves, using his quickness. Whenever he's aggressive, Diaw's pretty good at taking advantage of mismatches, may it be size (Parker or Udoka) or quickness (Thomas, Oberto, or Duncan). But if you put a guy on him who is physically similar and I'll bet he'll resort to his passive self.

I don't know if Horry ever plays the 3 for the Spurs but it seems like Parker-Bowen-Horry-Duncan-Oberto would work defensively.

[spursfaninla]

Being a Suns fan for about 17 years, I do remember watching Finley guard Amare in '05. And timvp is right, Finley didn't do that bad a job, I remember that pissing me off, that Amare couldn't dominate that matchup. The difference is Amare is way more well rounded now, and Finley is slower. So it might work as a gimmick for a short while but I doubt for long.

I'd say the best matchup on Diaw is Horry. I remember last season Diaw schooled Duncan a few times on post moves, using his quickness. Whenever he's aggressive, Diaw's pretty good at taking advantage of mismatches, may it be size (Parker or Udoka) or quickness (Thomas, Oberto, or Duncan). But if you put a guy on him who is physically similar and I'll bet he'll resort to his passive self.

I don't know if Horry ever plays the 3 for the Spurs but it seems like Parker-Bowen-Horry-Duncan-Oberto would work defensively.

THis lineup would score 60 points and would be offensive suicide.

No thanks. If we went Horry at the 3, we would have to take Bowen out.

[polandprzem]

I think that more then our defense we need our ofense back.

Pop will do some changes on D but matcups is not that big of a problem (cause Pop will figure it out) the problem is the transition D.

On offense spurs could not get going because Suns were fast enough to clog the 3sec box and be back on permieter guys when the pass went there.

Anybody saw what Barry did when he was in the game? That's the ABC of basketball. Moving constantly and moving the ball. Just confuse the defenders and provide mismatches.

But how the spurs can play transition on those old legs?
I'm worries as hell right now, cause if this series will extend to 6,7 games I don't see spurs having much of a chance either against Suns or Hornets (which are frickin 3-1 in the series)

[ForeignFan]

One thing the Spurs could do without doing something nutty like a scrub defender like Finley on Amare is to move Bowen to Diaw.

Parker defends Nash pretty well at times and if you have watched the Suns this yr and this playoffs it's pretty obvious Nash is a shell of his former self.

That leaves Finley on Bell or Barbosa. :(
I'd rather have Manu, then

[sunspride]

put tim duncan on boris diaw.

[cly2tw]

Were you a Suns fan in 2005? Stoudemire was destroying the Mavs, averaging like 40 in the first three games. The Mavs switched Finley onto Stoudemire and Stoudemire went down to about 20-22 point per game, IIRC.

2005 Stoudemire was pre-microfracture and even more of an athletic freak. Finley guarded him better than anyone else in that year's playoffs, including Duncan, Nazr, Dampier, Dirk and Gasol.

Amare didn't have a back-to-basket game to speak of. By putting Finley on him, they lured him into doing something he wasn't used to. Amare is now better at that, at least against smaller players like Finley. But for some reason, he has not been shooting well the last couple of games. Pop will try Finley on Amare a couple of times, just like he'll try hack-a-Shaq until Shaq could make the FT.

[timvp]

If I'm the Spurs I bank on Diaw laying an egg in at least one of the next 3 games. Take your chances with that rather than try and retool your entire gameplan to beat the Suns.The Spurs can bank on that but they should have a backup option if it doesn't pan out. That's where Finley on Amare comes into play.



Stoudemire has never really had trouble against smaller defenders. It might take Stoudemire a little bit to figure out how to attack a smaller, speedier defender if Pop decides to go that route, but it'll be disastrous in the long run.Disastrous in what sense? Stoudemire being the focus of the offense for the Suns has resulted in the Spurs winning almost every time. When Stoudemire had 38 points last year, that was the Spurs' easiest win of the series. In 2005, the only time the Spurs lost was when Stoudemire didn't go buck wild. Same pattern this year.

Stoudemire can put up points but he's not a passer, he's not a playmaker and he doesn't usually dominate for 48 minutes. Stoudemire is a great offensive player but that hasn't transfered into wins against the Spurs.


You've got to be kidding me if you think Finley is the answer on Stoudemire, so that another big can move to Boris Diaw.

You want to defend Stoudemire with length and physicality. Finley has neither and is 35 yrs old. He's way shorter, slower, and older than Amare. Oberto and Thomas are also shorter, slow and older than Amare. The Spurs don't have length and physicality to throw at Stoudemire outside of Duncan. The drop off from Oberto to Finley wouldn't be that great.


He wasn't holding his ground either, he was even backing down before he even got the body bump from Amare. Basically he was just giving Amare an escort to the rim. Pretty fucking lame.It's called adjusting. I doubt Finley entered Game 4 ready to guard Amare. Same with the help defense. But if you put Finley on Stoudemire and have the help scheme mapped out, the drop off is not that far from what the Spurs regularly do against him over the years.

[yavozerb]

How do you counter Boris Diaw and Raja Bell? don't change a damn thing. let see those 2 win the series by themselves.


agreed!!If these guys can shot >50% and average >20 pts a game then the suns deserve this series. Keep bowen on Nash, Amare will get his 30+ pts, and the spurs will win game 5.

[JamStone]

Make Robert Horry 8 years younger.

[Taco]

Make Robert Horry 8 years younger.
:lol

Activate Ian Mahinmi, he's got size

[ManuTastic]

Finley on Amare? Nope; that's switching no-defense Finley from a 20-pt scorer to a 40-pt scorer. Pass.

Why not put Bowen on Diaw? Finley can check Bell, Parker can take Nash. I know Bowen's smaller and lighter than Diaw, but dammit he's a better defender. Prediction: Pop starts Bowen on Diaw in game 5.

Pop quiz for Pop: what do you do when a team is penetrating and getting shots in the lane? Answer: Z-O-N-E. Thanks.

[Admidave50]

I agree that I'd rather see Amare than Diaw going off as Diaw has much much better passing skills. He needs to be shut down and he will be!

Then, that's fucking Diaw we're talking about, he's not a supastar! He won't have these kinda performances each game, fuck he didn't help much for France during the Olympics qualifications.

[Jimcs50]

Key to Spurs winning next game:

Hit your shots.

nuff said.

[bigdog]

DerMarr Johnson? He's about 6'9", long, and a decent defender.

I know he hasn't played, but we have Damon on the active list, and he doesn't play, so why not fill that spot with DerMarr?

The thing that killed us the most was Diaw's post up on the baseline. Finley allowed some space towards the baseline, and Diaw kept using that turnaround move to get easy shots.

Even if Bowen started against Diaw, with Finley on Bell and Parker on Nash, I still think the Bowen-Diaw matchup is an advantage for the Suns. Try out DerMarr Johnson. It's worth a shot. We still have 3 games :smokin


Either way I think we close out the series tomorrow night. :flag:

[bigdog]

Key to Spurs winning next game:

Hit your shots.

nuff said.

True. Shots weren't falling all night. The Suns stopped the pick and roll, and the post up with Duncan didn't really work.

I want to see some ball movement. The more we move the ball, the more open shots we will get. Getting some players coming off of screens would help too, just like we had been doing with Finley the first couple of games.

[Taco]

Activate Ian Mahinmi, he's got size

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/299/ianmq6.png

Who would you rather have activated as your 12th man

Mahinmi or D.Stoudamire

[Xylus]

I have a feeling D'Antoni, like the doofus he is, will start this lineup on Tuesday:

Nash
Barbosa
Bell
Stoudemire
Shaq

Instead of the Tri-Tower offense:

Nash
Bell
Diaw
Stoudemire
Shaq

[Str8Ballin]

you're probably right xylus. :depressed

[senorglory]

I think Spurs lost this game because Duncan was off. This team cannot compensate for a mediocre showing by Duncan. Had Duncan converted first quarter attempts, Suns would not have had all the fast break points, Spurs would not have gotten into an insurmountable hole-- entire texture of game changed. Duncan shot 6 for 18 on the game. Anyone have first quarter stats? I'm pretty sure they were horrible.

/I could be wrong.

[Trainwreck2100]

I have a feeling D'Antoni, like the doofus he is, will start this lineup on Tuesday:

Nash
Barbosa
Bell
Stoudemire
Shaq

Instead of the Tri-Tower offense:

Nash
Bell
Diaw
Stoudemire
Shaq

I'm thinking he goes with the latter, but the better coach would have already gameplanned for that and when you need your coach to make an adjustment it won't be there

[roycrikside]

Manu's had a stellar season, better than Timmy and Tony, I guess I just raised my expectations too high. :D I just feel that Tony and TImmy have played much better than Manu this series but I guess that's normal, I just forgot he is a 3rd option.

This is ridiculous. I can't believe people are slamming Manu now. He is shooting 50% for the series. He shot 50% in Game 4. He only got 8 shots and played only 21 minutes. Manu doesn't call the plays and Manu doesn't decide how much the coach plays him.

I think what most people here refuse to admit is that when Tony has it going, Tony likes to look for Tony's shots. He obviously had it going in Games 2 and 3 and consequently he thought he could be the man again in Game 4. Diaw's length seemed to bother him and he didn't really adjust.

I think if the Spurs want to win this series in 5 Pop will have to tweak the game plan a little and use Manu more. Run the offense through him more and run pick and rolls with him and Tim more. Bell's length is not a problem for Manu and he has shown in this series, consistently I think, that he can score on him if he's given the opportunity.

I'm not blaming Game 4 on Tony. Every single Spur took a vacation that game and they obviously weren't very interested in winning. But if we don't change our offensive strategy at all, Game 5 could easily be a loss as well.

But anybody suggesting that Manu is struggling or MIA or whatever is being an idiot. He's hitting half of his shots, but his teammates and coach aren't using him enough. He didn't even get a three point attempt last game.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Who would you rather have activated as your 12th man

Mahinmi or D.Stoudamire

You do have a point there...

[td4mvp21]

This is ridiculous. I can't believe people are slamming Manu now. He is shooting 50% for the series. He shot 50% in Game 4. He only got 8 shots and played only 21 minutes. Manu doesn't call the plays and Manu doesn't decide how much the coach plays him.

I think what most people here refuse to admit is that when Tony has it going, Tony likes to look for Tony's shots. He obviously had it going in Games 2 and 3 and consequently he thought he could be the man again in Game 4. Diaw's length seemed to bother him and he didn't really adjust.

I think if the Spurs want to win this series in 5 Pop will have to tweak the game plan a little and use Manu more. Run the offense through him more and run pick and rolls with him and Tim more. Bell's length is not a problem for Manu and he has shown in this series, consistently I think, that he can score on him if he's given the opportunity.

I'm not blaming Game 4 on Tony. Every single Spur took a vacation that game and they obviously weren't very interested in winning. But if we don't change our offensive strategy at all, Game 5 could easily be a loss as well.

But anybody suggesting that Manu is struggling or MIA or whatever is being an idiot. He's hitting half of his shots, but his teammates and coach aren't using him enough. He didn't even get a three point attempt last game.

Tony needs to be the number 1 option. No one on the Suns can stop him. No one. They focused their entire defense on him in Game 3 and he put up 41. I want the ball in Tony's hands most of the game. I do think Duncan needs to be utilized more in the low block and Ginobili needs to have more then 8 shots like he did last game. But yeah, the Spurs are doing something right offensively.