Hack A Shaq isn't good coaching - Phil Jackson

[Ronaldo McDonald]

double post

[Spurminator]

2. Joking or not, we all know he meant exactly what he said. He was the 1st GM to openly criticize the trade in such an open manner. I don't care if he's never said things like this before, he's never used hack-a-shaq like this before either. There is a 1st time for everything.


You really think Pop wants to create a trade review committee? That's just silly.

[DazedAndConfused]

The, "we're better on paper, so we should win" argument has never been that effective when applied to the the Spurs.

They win because of their superior basketball intelligence. That can't be shown on paper.

You give Phil Jackson talent and he gives you championships. Hard to argue with the man's track record.

[DazedAndConfused]

You really think Pop wants to create a trade review committee? That's just silly.

Actually I do, and if Pop could he would. This is the man who sent tapes to the league to call lane violations on Shaq when he was shooting free throws.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

You put Odom or Gasol on any team and they don't win championships.

[ChumpDumper]

lakerfan is just as scurred as Phil.

Trade committee :lmao

[slayermin]

Did I miss something? Did Bynum get minutes against the Nuggets?

Laker fans talking shit as if he did.

[Pulgoso]

Kick their ass in the playoffs again?

Pop has only beaten Phil Jackson ONCE in the playoffs, and that was when the 3-peat Lakers were at their weakest in terms of a supporting cast. Phil Jackson, OTOH, has beaten Pop 3 times. If there is any ownage going on, it's Phil owning Pop.

I don't expect most Spurs fans to actually agree with what Phil is saying. But deep down I know you are all embarrassed that your coach and organization would have to stoop to such tactic for such a sustained period of time just to get a win.

Then, so how many championship did Phil won with the Lakers vs Pop championship with the Spurs? You are smoking...you do not know what a championship team is all about. That is a sign of insecurity on Phil's part because he is scared. Pop is a very classy coach and he respect every people in the league from players to coaches, owners everybody. He will just laugh and not give any negative comment. Because he has a heart of a champion.

[Pulgoso]

Phil Jackson really showing a sign of insecurity because he know his Lakers will be beaten by the Spurs in the WEST finals. He is making this excuses because he hoped to Suns to win against the Spurs because he know his Lakers can beat the Suns and not the Spurs. In the other hand he also planned to use that against Shaq if ever Suns won against Spurs in the first round.

[TheNew050]

Popovich was only doing what a good coach should do. If the Suns or anyone else objected to "hack-a-Shaq", then take him out of the game and make the Spurs play real defense. The Spurs do not need to prove to anyone how good they have been on defense for over a decade. If you want to blame someone, blame the Suns for acquiring the "Diesel" and losing one of their best scoring options in Marion. Everyone knows the Suns would be ten times more competitive with last year's squad.

[Spurminator]

Actually I do, and if Pop could he would. This is the man who sent tapes to the league to call lane violations on Shaq when he was shooting free throws.

Link? I believe you are thinking of Mark Cuban.

[Spuradicator]

How do the Laker fans expect to face the Spurs in the WCF's when we will be facing the Jazz???????? Dumbasses.

[DazedAndConfused]

The same Jazz who are struggling to put away a Yao-less Rocket team and who have the worst road record of any WC playoff team? Yea, we're shaking in our boots.....

[Spuradicator]

Yea, we're shaking in our boots.....


I know you are regular season champs.

[Killakobe81]

Phil is a jerj at times but a smart dude ...botoom line is BOTH teams have a tough matchup BEFORE we can meet ...though i do admit i think the Spur's is tougher

[leemajors]

I saw the interview on PTI, this is being taken way too seriously. He basically said he was surprised Pop did it, but that it did help take Phoenix out of their game. He also said it makes the game really ugly, but it worked.

[21GoSpursGo9]

Phil is 3-1 against Pop, get your facts straight. Don't give a fuck who was on the team at the time, he's beaten Pop 3 times and lost once.


It sounds like you do give a fuck who was on the team though when it concerns the Lakers...




Pop has only beaten Phil Jackson ONCE in the playoffs, and that was when the 3-peat Lakers were at their weakest in terms of a supporting cast.

So I guess who was on the Lakers team at the time matters but who was on the Spurs team doesnt mean a damn thing? You just contradicted yourself there dazed!:lmao:lmao

[inconvertible]

all the more sweeter when we bounce those clowns out of the playoffs.

[Medvedenko]

all the more sweeter when we bounce those clowns out of the playoffs.


I didn't know that you played for the Spurs... congrats.

[ThomasGranger]

I didn't know that you played for the Spurs... congrats.



Well we were up 3-0 on the nuggets in the reg and beat them 4-0

[hater]

Trading a scrub for a superstar like Gasol is not good coaching either.

[DazedAndConfused]

So Gasol is a superstar now? I thought he was soft pussy ass bitch that choked in the playoffs? It's funny to see you hokeys change your tune every 5 seconds.

[ThomasGranger]

Gasol is a soft pussy ass bitch superstar that choked in the playoffs.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I don't like the Hack-a-whoever at all. In the late stages of a game or in a comeback role I understand it. But in the first half when your team has the lead?

It's bush league and makes the game painful to watch.

[DazedAndConfused]

^Word.

[ThomasGranger]

I don't like the Hack-a-whoever at all. In the late stages of a game or in a comeback role I understand it. But in the first half when your team has the lead?

Pop did it when it was most advantageous to do so (rather than doing it in the last two minutes, when the Spurs would be penalized for doing it).

It was a gamble that paid off. You may not like it, but what's so hard to understand about it?

[DazedAndConfused]

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't effective. It was bloody effective.

It makes the game painful to watch and more of a spectacle. Especially if used the way Pop used it. Most coaches will do it as a desperation move in the final minutes of a game when things are slowed down anyways with timeouts and such. And you guys wonder why nobody enjoys watching the Spurs play and the fact that your team has registered some of the lowest ever Final ratings in history?

[TampaDude]

Fuck Phil Jackson. We're gonna whoop his ass, too, after we dispose of the Hornets.

[TheNew050]

I don't like the Hack-a-whoever at all. In the late stages of a game or in a comeback role I understand it. But in the first half when your team has the lead?

It's bush league and makes the game painful to watch.

The Suns are like a well-oiled machine on offense and any team's strategy against them should be to find a way to slow Nash and disrupt what they are trying to do. Regardless of the acquisition of Shaq, everyone knows that the Suns can't play defense. Popovich knew what the Suns weak spot was and exploited it. I know the Suns' bench isn't particularly deep, especially without Hill and with Skinner as much a candidate as Shaq for hacking, but an adjustment needed to be made on his part. D'Antoni should have pulled Shaq the second he was fouled away from the ball.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It sucks the flow out of the game and slows the game down.

It's boring.

It made the 1st half last as long as that of an NFL game, almost as long as some baseball games.

Nobody is arguing that D'Antoni isn't an idiot or that it didn't work. It's just that it made golf seem exciting in comparison.

[703 Spurz]

Spurs are cheap. Pop is a COWARD, HACK A SHAQ IS A JOKE.

You don't see the Wizards, HACK A BEN WALLACE. He shoots worst than Shaq. Atleast some teams still have respect for the game.

Uh the Wizards did hack-a-Wallace in last night's game fuckass

[Obstructed_View]

It sucks the flow out of the game and slows the game down.

It's boring.

It made the 1st half last as long as that of an NFL game, almost as long as some baseball games.

Nobody is arguing that D'Antoni isn't an idiot or that it didn't work. It's just that it made golf seem exciting in comparison.

But the Spurs are boring, right? Since nobody's watching anyway, who gives a shit?

[hater]

So Gasol is a superstar now? I thought he was soft pussy ass bitch that choked in the playoffs? It's funny to see you hokeys change your tune every 5 seconds.

a superstar can be a soft pussy ass bitch that choked in the playoffs. see Dirk Nowitki 2007

[hater]

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't effective. It was bloody effective.

It makes the game painful to watch and more of a spectacle. Especially if used the way Pop used it. Most coaches will do it as a desperation move in the final minutes of a game when things are slowed down anyways with timeouts and such. And you guys wonder why nobody enjoys watching the Spurs play and the fact that your team has registered some of the lowest ever Final ratings in history?

well it makes the game painful to watch the lakers with gasol who was aquired in a fishy ass deal. fuckin cheaters

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

But the Spurs are boring, right? Since nobody's watching anyway, who gives a shit?


I've never been one to accuse/label the Spurs as being boring.

I do hate the strategy, though. I liken it to ARod shouting "Got it!" or Sean Avery's antics in front of Brodeur(surprised if more than 10% know what this is), neither of which is against the rules.

I don't really blame the Spurs. It's the NBA which needs to change the rules. When Avery did his schtick last week, the NHL changed the rule the next day. Why can't the NBA do this?

[ThomasGranger]

It sucks the flow out of the game and slows the game down.

It's boring.

It made the 1st half last as long as that of an NFL game, almost as long as some baseball games.

Nobody is arguing that D'Antoni isn't an idiot or that it didn't work. It's just that it made golf seem exciting in comparison.

I thought only Suns fans trotted out that lame-ass argument about "ratings" and "excitement." To hear it from a Lakers fan isn't surprising, but from a Pistons fan?

Edit: OK, I think I see where you are coming from now.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Fouling a a poor shooter when he has the ball in his hands is one thing.

Fouling the same guy, who is nowhere near the ball, once he hits the timeline is another. In the first half, no less.

The NBA should change the rule. Allow anyone on the court to shoot the FTs or give them the ball out of bounds. How hard is it?

[Obstructed_View]

I've never been one to accuse/label the Spurs as being boring.

I do hate the strategy, though. I liken it to ARod shouting "Got it!" or Sean Avery's antics in front of Brodeur(surprised if more than 10% know what this is), neither of which is against the rules.

I don't really blame the Spurs. It's the NBA which needs to change the rules. When Avery did his schtick last week, the NHL changed the rule the next day. Why can't the NBA do this?
On a side note, if Avery had done that to Ed Belfour or Patrick Roy, his spleen would have been ruptured a week early.

If the NBA wanted to make intentional fouling unsportsmanlike conduct, they could probably do it immediately, and waiting until the Spurs started doing it would have been the perfect time. Howevuh, they won't even suspend Kevin Garnett for shoving an official right now, so they clearly have a credibility issue to deal with first.

The Spurs have had it done to them in the past, and they handled it without complaint. While I'm really glad they did it to the Suns, I have my own reasons for feeling that way about it, and I hope they don't do it ever again.

[ThomasGranger]

Another poster (a Pistons fan, I think), came up with the possibility of allowing the team who is fouled the option of declining the free throws.

Considering that the Hack-a-Shaq worked for the Spurs at the expense of a potential match-up the NBA was undoubtedly salivating about (Lakers/Suns), I'm pretty sure they will change the rule one way or another to discourage teams from using it in the future.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

On a side note, if Avery had done that to Ed Belfour or Patrick Roy, his spleen would have been ruptured a week early.


Hextall or Smith would have made him a soprano and then pummeled him into the ice for good measure.

[ambchang]

Fouling a a poor shooter when he has the ball in his hands is one thing.

Fouling the same guy, who is nowhere near the ball, once he hits the timeline is another. In the first half, no less.

The NBA should change the rule. Allow anyone on the court to shoot the FTs or give them the ball out of bounds. How hard is it?


The thing is, why wasn't the rule used before the Spurs used it? Nobody said anything about changing the rule when Don Nelson used it, or Phil Jackson used it, so why change it when Popovich used it?

And no, making a bad FT shooter shoot FTs is the same as forcing a bad shooter to shoot. Nobody said anything when Phil Jackson collapsed the lane and forced Tony Parker to shoot in 04. He clanged the shots, wasn't that as ugly as seeing Shaq missing his FTs?

The difference is that Parker worked on his shot to the point where he is at least respectable instead of whining about it. Learn from that, Shaq.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The thing is, why wasn't the rule used before the Spurs used it? Nobody said anything about changing the rule when Don Nelson used it, or Phil Jackson used it, so why change it when Popovich used it?

And no, making a bad FT shooter shoot FTs is the same as forcing a bad shooter to shoot. Nobody said anything when Phil Jackson collapsed the lane and forced Tony Parker to shoot in 04. He clanged the shots, wasn't that as ugly as seeing Shaq missing his FTs?

The difference is that Parker worked on his shot to the point where he is at least respectable instead of whining about it. Learn from that, Shaq.

I hated it when the Magic did it to Wallace a few years back. If you hit 50% of FTs, the other team doesn't really benefit. Over the course of a few trips down the floor, it's akin to shooting 50% from the field. It just slows the game down.

And no, it isn't the same as letting TP shoot jumpers. The game doesn't stop in that scenario.

[Spurminator]

The thing is, why wasn't the rule used before the Spurs used it?

Because the Spurs won.

I'm not saying this as a "NBA/Media Hates the Spurs" argument, but in the past the strategy has typically been used by teams who ended up losing the series anyway because they were that much inferior. I guess an exception would be when the Mavs employed Hack-a-Bowen in 2006, but that wasn't used with as much frequency as this year's Hack-a-Shaq.

Another thing: This was a very highly-touted series that a lot of basketball fans were excited about. So it's understandable that fans of the game who tuned in for good basketball were turned off when a free throw competition broke out.

I'm glad the Spurs used it and I'm glad we beat the Suns. If the rulebook provides a loophole, you go for it. But I would definitely welcome a rule change in the offseason if the NBA decides that's what's best for the game. I don't think you can try to eliminate all intentional fouls, but you can at least address off-the-ball intentional fouls.

[smeagol]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao @ at all these stupid spurs fans getting their panties in a bunch.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao @ the guy who calls other people stupid and thinks Chavez is a great president.

[smeagol]

^Word.

Moron, PJ used the same strategy on Bowen. Hence, the "hypocrite" label attached to the Zan Master.

That should be easy to understand, even for a LakerFan . . .

Therefore, get off Pop's back regarding the Hack-a-Fat, already.

[Jdspur20]

Actually I do, and if Pop could he would. This is the man who sent tapes to the league to call lane violations on Shaq when he was shooting free throws.

any coach would do that if he thinks a player is in a violation. if you want to talk about someone sending too many videos to the League office....see mark cuban.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

HIT YOUR FUCKIN' FREE THROWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

END of Story.

There should not be a single aspect of any professional basketball player's game that I peform better than them. If your too much of a disgrace to your craft and lacking in professionalism to improve your weak points then deal with the consequences.

[Jdspur20]

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't effective. It was bloody effective.

It makes the game painful to watch and more of a spectacle. Especially if used the way Pop used it. Most coaches will do it as a desperation move in the final minutes of a game when things are slowed down anyways with timeouts and such. And you guys wonder why nobody enjoys watching the Spurs play and the fact that your team has registered some of the lowest ever Final ratings in history?

if you love your precious fakers so much then why are you watching us? if its so painful, dont watch it.

[StrangeCheez]

Spurs are cheap. Pop is a COWARD, HACK A SHAQ IS A JOKE.

You don't see the Wizards, HACK A BEN WALLACE. He shoots worst than Shaq. Atleast some teams still have respect for the game.
Yeah, the Spurs are the only team in history to use the "Hack A Snaq" strategy.... Maybe the motherfucker should learn to shoot freethrows.

[BigBeezie]

I love that strategy...it made me laugh. It exploits a weakness in Shaq and throws off the Phx offense. Screw Phil Jackson!!!

[DespЏrado]

Because the Spurs won.

I'm not saying this as a "NBA/Media Hates the Spurs" argument, but in the past the strategy has typically been used by teams who ended up losing the series anyway because they were that much inferior. I guess an exception would be when the Mavs employed Hack-a-Bowen in 2006, but that wasn't used with as much frequency as this year's Hack-a-Shaq.

Another thing: This was a very highly-touted series that a lot of basketball fans were excited about. So it's understandable that fans of the game who tuned in for good basketball were turned off when a free throw competition broke out.

I'm glad the Spurs used it and I'm glad we beat the Suns. If the rulebook provides a loophole, you go for it. But I would definitely welcome a rule change in the offseason if the NBA decides that's what's best for the game. I don't think you can try to eliminate all intentional fouls, but you can at least address off-the-ball intentional fouls.

+1 This is pretty much right on.


I do think the only important argument the Spurs fans are missing is that this game changing practice has a slight chance of making us a worse team. The Spurs are so good because they practice a system of defense that turns it up in crunch time. Reliance on a strategy like hack a shaq, even if it was only at the end of the first half of games could potentially lead to a bad habit of letting our guard down.

Which is why the Spurs must never use the practice consistently, which is exactly why I was ecstatic to see it in game 1 but infinitely more unhappy with it's continued use.

Oh and the Spurs were a better team defensively than they were giving themselves credit for. They have to know they can rely on their defense at any given moment of the game, and using hack a Shaq undermines that mentality.

[pauls931]

Pop had two purposes for hack a shack. What most here miss is that it's also to disrupt nash's rhythm, not just put pressure on shaq. Phoenix likes to get the ball inbounds quickly, so hack a shack at the end of quarters slows down the pace to the spurs advantage.

I live in Texas so everyone is a Spur fan and most have the opinion that Shaq just needs to hit freethrows. But I tend to lean towards the rule being you have to foul who has the ball and if you foul off the ball perhaps give the team on offense a freethrow and the ball back.

Dantoni could have benched shaq, but I think he hated the idea of the other team being able to decide which players he plays by means other than player matchups.

hack a shack is good coaching, I'm just not sure if it's good sportsmanship.

[cherylsteele]

Geez...everyone is in an uproar over Hack-a-Shaq, you have a player who has been in the NBA for 15 yrs, making 10 mil+/yr and has done little to nothing to improve from the FT line. The strategy had been used in the past and yet he shows no effort to improve this aspect of the game, Bruce practiced his free throws when we were playing against Nellie and made the Nellie and the Mavs pay the price. I see very few people talking about that, they just want to talk about that choice of strategy the Spurs used.

Now people want to penalize teams for using another player's weakness to their advantage. Maybe we should penalize a player for not improving his skill set. Shooting free throws is a fundamental part of the game, just like dribbling the ball.

[dunkman]

He plays psychological games with the Spurs (Pop, coaching staff and players). I think that Pop has the upper hand with equal talent, Phil has been better when Duncan has insufficent help and when he had 4 HOF's, Malone playing smart and well, plus Payton playing some solid defense on Parker.

For this year the Spurs have more talent and championship experience, and I expect them to route the Hornets quite easy, also the Lakers, if they survive against the Jazz, but not so easy.

[ambchang]

I hated it when the Magic did it to Wallace a few years back. If you hit 50% of FTs, the other team doesn't really benefit. Over the course of a few trips down the floor, it's akin to shooting 50% from the field. It just slows the game down.

And no, it isn't the same as letting TP shoot jumpers. The game doesn't stop in that scenario.

So it's the slowing down of the game that you have a problem with? It's one way to kill the opposing team's momentum, and in that case, the same as calling a timeout when the other team is going on a run. I don't see people complaining about that.

[ambchang]

+1 This is pretty much right on.


I do think the only important argument the Spurs fans are missing is that this game changing practice has a slight chance of making us a worse team. The Spurs are so good because they practice a system of defense that turns it up in crunch time. Reliance on a strategy like hack a shaq, even if it was only at the end of the first half of games could potentially lead to a bad habit of letting our guard down.

Which is why the Spurs must never use the practice consistently, which is exactly why I was ecstatic to see it in game 1 but infinitely more unhappy with it's continued use.

Oh and the Spurs were a better team defensively than they were giving themselves credit for. They have to know they can rely on their defense at any given moment of the game, and using hack a Shaq undermines that mentality.

I wouldn't agree with the point that Pop was using hack-a-shaq as a defensive mechanism for a particular possession. As noted, Shaq has shot around 50% for the series, and the Suns haven't been making 50% of their shots. Pop has also used the strategy when Shaq was making his FTs. It looks MUCH more like he was using it to screw with Shaq's mind, and undermine the confidence the coach (or maybe even the rest of the team) has when Shaq is on the floor. It's not like he was running it when the Spurs were down, he just seemed to pull this out randomly.

It sends the message that, "If you put Shaq on the floor, I am going to make it so that your team can't even do what you want on the floor, but if you take him out, I am going to have my guards score on you at will and dominate you on the boards." So it's sort of a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario, forcing D'antoni to waste time thinking of a counter when time is already at a premium during the game and the series.

It really is a brilliant move.

[purist]

One question. Did Spurs win?
..... yeah, I thought so.

[Agloco]

Another poster (a Pistons fan, I think), came up with the possibility of allowing the team who is fouled the option of declining the free throws.
Considering that the Hack-a-Shaq worked for the Spurs at the expense of a potential match-up the NBA was undoubtedly salivating about (Lakers/Suns), I'm pretty sure they will change the rule one way or another to discourage teams from using it in the future.

That's an interesting spin..... I like it.

[Flux451]

It's called exploiting a weakness.

It is the same as playing a player to his left if right handed. Its the same as double teaming a player. THere are pros and cons.
Shaq had a chance to score easy points and help his team win but he didn't step up.
IT's boring but its a stragtegy.

It has happened to Bowen like many have said here so we know what it is like. ANd Bowen stepped up.

Also, I hate Phil. Ever since his whole 99 spurs ring should have an asterix next to it. What a egotistical smuck. THEY ARE GOING DOWN!!!!

[hater]

fans complaining about the hack a shaq is like Alquaeda complaining US is using high tech weapons on them :lol

[Spurminator]

Just as a reminder....


I saw the interview on PTI, this is being taken way too seriously. He basically said he was surprised Pop did it, but that it did help take Phoenix out of their game. He also said it makes the game really ugly, but it worked.

[Septic]

I seriously don't get it. This strategy works on very few people because very few people shoot a very low percentage at the FT line. Shooting FT'S IS PART OF THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME and it's not the fault of the opposing teams coach or any one for that matter for fouling a horrid FT shooter. It's 'war' out there on the courts when it comes down to championships and you get there by any means necessary except for purposely injuring someone. If that fat slob clanks 50% of his FREE THROWS... free being the key word here that's his own fault. Changing a rule in the NBA because of 1 person is just ridiculous.

I could careless if other teams fouled Bowen every time, Spurs would adjust the Suns would rather lose and cry foul than to adjust.

Maybe the NBA should move the FT line closer to satisfy Shaq and thus pander to a few people.

Lastly, they can all go fishing cause the Spurs are winning rings and they are losing games. :flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

[Hillcrest]

He's right. While it may be good strategy, it's mainly just fucking tacky, and frustrating to watch as a fan. I'm pretty confident in saying that the forefathers of the game probably didn't have it in mind when they created the game. I feel like we don't need to stoop to that level to be successful. Then again, this is the first time I remember Pop doing it for a sustained period of time, and I doubt we'll see it again. Now, I know 98% of this board would eat Pop's feces if he asked them to, so I don't expect many to agree with me in criticizing his choice to do it.

the forefathers didn't have 3-pointers, dunks, cylinders in mind either. for now, the rules are the rules and i think you take advantage.

"tacky"...what's that? who decides that? who decided the rules? the rules are tacky, then, not the strategy.

[LakerMagic]

At first i didn't like hack-a-Shaq. But I think that was just the Laker fan in me ribbing the Spurs and Spurs fans. I admit it. But when you really think about it, who cares. Shaq should of hit his free throws.

Pop is a really great coach. I highly doubt he did Hack-a-Shaq out of fear. I think it was strategic to get the Suns out of synch. Even Nash admitted that it thew him off his game. Superior coaching is what it was. Spurs demolished the Suns.

[GoodToBeTheKing]

Interviewer: Hey Pop how come you didn't use the "hack-a-Shaq" strategy?
Pop: I was embarassed and fealt the Spurs fans would appreciate a more pure form of basketball.
Interviewer: But you lost?
Pop: Yeah but this feels much better. Did you see Nash carve up our defense and Shaq completely dominate on the inside? Next year we are going to work on Bruce backing off on his defensive effort. When he locks down the opposing team's best player it really makes for a boring game.
Interviewer: But you have won 4 championships?
Pop: True but we really weren't that entertaining and by the way did you see our ratings. I was more intersted in the Kobe soap opera than our own finals games with the Cavs last year. Now that was drama.