Solving the West problem

[whottt]

#1. He was exceptionally hot tonight, exceptionally hot and I don't think the Spurs defended him poorly for the most part. This guy knocked down some tough damn shots.


#2. If he continues to stay hot...it might be a good idea to not fuck around with it and go ahead double team him.

IMO, he's not ready to handle a pro double team yet.



The Spurs need to take West away and turn Paul into a scorer(preferably with Bowen on him) to win this series.

[ducks]

duncan needs to guard him

[bdictjames]

Put Duncan on him, its the only way. His length MIGHT bother him.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah everyone goes on about Udoka being too short, but it's not size that bothers West, it's people being physical with him. Give Ime some run. He certainly can't do any worse than Oberto playing turnstyle.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe we should put Bonner on him. When Matt falls down, he might take out one of their players.

Or Duncan.

Couldn't hurt either way.

[gospursgojas]

West poses a problem similar to Dirk.

Not as an effective shooter but still, a big man who can shoot.

And that give our big men problems.

We never did find that Dirk stopper did we??? :spin

[whottt]

I'm telling you guys...double him. Fuck one on one if he stays that hot. Double him and force Paul to beat you by himself...

West is unprepared for that type of defensive attention.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We need to do him what we used to do to Amare. Let him get his and lock everyone else down.

[Spurminator]

It seems like he's been hot every time we've played them.

[DAF86]

#1. He was exceptionally hot tonight, exceptionally hot and I don't think the Spurs defended him poorly for the most part. This guy knocked down some tough damn shots.


#2. If he continues to stay hot...it might be a good idea to not fuck around with it and go ahead double team him.

IMO, he's not ready to handle a pro double team yet.



The Spurs need to take West away and turn Paul into a scorer(preferably with Bowen on him) to win this series.

whott, you know who could have help us guarding a mobile bigman? yes you know.

P.S: Don't get angry I'm half kidding. :lol

[clubalien]

I think he was just overly hot this game.. I wanted them to throw ian on him to put a good defender on him

[DAF86]

He's just making jumpers there's not much you can do

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, Scola would have locked West up like a bank vault.

[whottt]

It seems like he's been hot every time we've played them.



He hasn't been as well defended as he was tonight the other big games he's had against us...


This was definitely a superstar performance on his part...Chris Paul shit, this guy was the show tonight.


Double his ass...don't wait for him to earn it.

[E20]

If we double West, Tyson Chandler will be alley-ooping down the Spurs throat.

[Spurs Brazil]

I think KT was doing a good job on him but he picked 2 quick fouls in the 3rd and West killed us in the 2nd half

[DDS4]

The problem was before West even got the ball.

Oberto/Horry/Thomas were giving up too much ground plus letting him back down to the hole. Those three have to push him out further.

[ShoogarBear]

I think KT was doing a good job on him but he picked 2 quick fouls in the 3rd and West killed us in the 2nd half

I would agree with this. Thomas initially did a decent job. KT's problem is that he always picks up at least 1 really-dumb-what-were-you-thinking fouls, and then another 1-2 BS reputation calls.

[inconvertible]

Yeah everyone goes on about Udoka being too short, but it's not size that bothers West, it's people being physical with him. Give Ime some run. He certainly can't do any worse than Oberto playing turnstyle.



yeah wtf happened to IME anyway????????strange.

maybe POP was really scouting NO today.

[lefty]

Maybe Damon Stoudemire can stop him

[anjlbitz]

Can we get Tiago Splitter out of Euroleague to guard David West?

[whottt]

I don't know what the hell people are talking about or even thinking putting Ime Udoka and David West in the same sentence...but I was definitely wondering where Ime was when Bonzi was on the court...he's tailor made to defend Bonzi and was effective against him all season.

[td4mvp21]

I full expect Pop to make an adjustment. Expect to see Finley guarding him for the majority of Game 2.

[lefty]

I full expect Pop to make an adjustment. Expect to see Finley guarding him for the majority of Game 2.

:rollin

[Budkin]

Just put Finley on him.

[DAF86]

Force him to get the ball on the floor and then throw the double team at him. We could force some tournovers or at least get the ball out of his hands.

[Man of Steel]

West stopper=Jaque Vaughn

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

i 'd like to see him get double teamed as well.

[lefty]

i 'd like to see him get double teamed as well.

We would hit a new low if we start doing that

[Kori Ellis]

LJ and I were discussing this on the way home.

I think the best solution might be to just let West get his. He scores 30 when the Spurs try to guard him anyway. So maybe they should let him go?

Maybe they should just double hard on Paul instead to take away easy passes to West.

West is this year's Dirk for the Spurs. Spurs just don't have anyone that matches up well with him. So maybe they should cut off the head of the snake and smother CP3 instead.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

but if you double Paul, won't that open up his passing? and the potential alley oop lobs?

I thought we rattled Paul when we dared him to shoot his midrange jumpshot

[wireonfire]

You need to put Luis Scola on him. Scola 14pts, 9.3rebs a game in the playoffs. :lol

[GinobiliLooms]

I agree with that. They should just pressure the hell out of CP3 with double teams the whole length of the court. Get him rattled so it is difficult for him to make a clean pass to a teammate for an assist. Dallas used this strategy the last game of the season against them and it worked beautifully. Despite how well this NO team is playing, big-time pressure is their achilles heel.

[cp3 4 mvp]

Trust me i have seen alot of hornets games and if you double paul he will kill you because he splits them to easy and west is always left open and you dont want that to happen.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

We would hit a new low if we start doing that

Why? If you get him out of rhythm, he can't hit those outside shots all night, heating the fans up.
West is the reason we can't get stops. He's the reason we never got on a run in the second half. West and CP are a big two-type of tandem. I wouldn't mind him seeing the occasional double team experiment.

[Kori Ellis]

yes that is what Dallas did, and Paul destroyed them, you can't double Paul because he will find the open man.

I don't know if he can find the open man .. it depends who is doubling and how hard they are doing it . They gotta get him out of his rhythm.


What's your solution to West? To me, West will get 30 with someone guarding him and probably 35 with no one guarding him :lol

[sabar]

Didnt Dallas try trapping CP and only succeeded with it one game?

[urunobili]

let him try to beat us himself and we shut down and plz frustrate cp3

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

If they pressure CP3 early, I'm down with that, maybe a few traps on the pick and roll; or at the tope of the key, but I don't think it's a good idea to double him when he's aggressive and attack mode. He's going to make us pay with his passing.

Bowen already did a good job defensively, Paul was 5 of 14 shooting , and only got two garbage points when the Starters were out. I think we need Pop to use Udoka out there with Bowen on Paul.
We need Manu and Tim, and guys to read and defend the entry pass to West (and Chandler) better.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I don't know if he can find the open man .. it depends who is doubling and how hard they are doing it . They gotta get him out of his rhythm.


What's your solution to West? To me, West will get 30 with someone guarding him and probably 35 with no one guarding him :lol

and 40 with Finley.

[Kori Ellis]

Didnt Dallas try trapping CP and only succeeded with it one game?

Well Dallas defense kind of sucks compared to the Spurs. :lol

[tchopotulis]

I Pray that Popovich decides to double Dwest lol...this will really be a sweep if that happens. Doubling him only leaves Peja, Pargo and Mopete open. The Mavs tried to double him and got SLAUGHTERED lol they were clueless.

[itzsoweezee]

the spurs can't stop West. that's a fact. but they cannot let scrubs like stojacovic and wells score like that and expect to compete.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I Pray that Popovich decides to double Dwest lol...this will really be a sweep if that happens. Doubling him only leaves Peja, Pargo and Mopete open. The Mavs tried to double him and got SLAUGHTERED lol they were clueless.

Guess we gotta keep it man to man. For some reason i'm not worried about Peja and them.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i put bonner on him, fukn hard flagrant is all you need, and make sure bowen is there too with his foot :D

[Manudona]

Pop should use the Hack-a-West, he will get his points anyway, but it might disrupt Paul game if he does not have a chance to touch the ball :)

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Pop should use the Hack-a-West, he will get his points anyway, but it might disrupt Paul game if he does not have a chance to touch the ball :)

:lol

Hack-a-whoever...Pop's new crutch. although i really like that it might take away Chris Paul's touches.
Is there anyone to put David West into foul trouble? I say we get him and Paul into foul trouble

[tchopotulis]

Pop should use the Hack-a-West, he will get his points anyway, but it might disrupt Paul game if he does not have a chance to touch the ball :)

thats the dumbest shit I've heard on here man...DWEST is like an 84% ft shooter...:nope

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

thats the dumbest shit I've heard on here man...DWEST is like an 84% ft shooter...:nope

:lol

[Whisky Dog]

Take and make the wide open shots. 1st half... Good. 2nd half... Bad.

[INS]

West is the best player ever, besides Chris Paul. Birdman is 3rd.

[DAF86]

Don't let him take so many "comfortables" jumpers. Make him put the ball in the floor and attack the basket and then collapse into him. Who knows maybe he's just as stupid as Stoudamire and he'd try to shoot over three people or even better tourn the ball over.

[cly2tw]

Just put Finley on him.

hahah, you must hate Finley!:lol

[atxrocker]

West is this year's Dirk for the Spurs.


West>>>>>Dirk watch :downspin:

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Don't let him take so many "comfortables" jumpers. Make him put the ball in the floor and attack the basket and then collapse into him. Who knows maybe he's just as stupid as Stoudamire and he'd try to shoot over three people or even better tourn the ball over.

I hate that we got the Suns first. They gave us horrible preparation.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I still think that if we let West get his and shut everyone else that might be a better strategy.


We need to keep a tighter lid on Peja.

As well as control the boards.

I'm confident in SA's ability to limit Paul, much like they did Steve Nash.

[polandprzem]

I'm telling you guys...double him. Fuck one on one if he stays that hot. Double him and force Paul to beat you by himself...

West is unprepared for that type of defensive attention.

Wasn't it

Stop Paul and everybody else will be unpruductive?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Wasn't it

Stop Paul and everybody else will be unpruductive?

I think we should do the "Let Nash be the scorer" strategy. He's basically Steve Nash of last year.
I hated it when Tim and the guys would look down defeated when they let an easy alley oop happen. It's kind of annoying how they would deflate just because the Hornets got a basket on them.

[SPURS50]

Everytime west plays us he lights us up. They gotta double him or hes gonna go off for 30+ every game this series. He's a nightmare for us!

[atxrocker]

and lmfao @ peja being a main contributor so far. peja has been of exceptional value of late.

[polandprzem]

. It's kind of annoying how they would deflate just because the Hornets got a basket on them.

Seen that, been that experienced it

unfortunately

[BiZNicK]

Keep parker on Paul
Bowen on peja
Try Duncan on West
KT on Tyson

[whottt]

Kori...doubling a guy like Chris Paul is the absolute kiss of death of all kisses of death. You never double a PG that can pass like Paul can, you never ever ever do that for the simple reason that that is exactly what Paul wants you to do...because that plays to the strongest part of his game, that's what will allow him to truly dominate.


Paul may cop a ballah attitude allah like AI or JR Smith or some guy like that...but he's not like them in that he will try to take over the game with his scoring like they do. He is 100% pass first and that what he wants to do first...he wants the Spurs to double him, with all his heart that is what he wants more than anything. And the Spurs must never ever ever do that.


No...absolutely best to take away all his passing options and force him to go mano a mano against Bruce...


As Sean Elliott once aptly describred...Bruce is like a rash, you can't kick a rash's ass, the more you fight it then worse it gets, until you literally go insane...that is the essene of Bruce Bowen, that is why this is a battle Paul can and will not win....the longer it goes, and more Paul scratches, the more it is going to itch.





As I said earlier...

#1. I think West can be defended...by our bigs pretty effectively.

But if he can't...

#2. He is the one you double, hopefully with Manu, and if not Manu then Parker. He's the one unprepared to handle a double team...hell even Tim Duncan can't handle....you guys think David West can?

There are about 2 bigmen in history that could truly, and I mean truly handle a double team...and West is definitely not better than they are.


West won't know how to handle a double team...Paul will thrive on it.

[BiZNicK]

KT needs to be playing at least 30mins a game. He only played 20 today.

[DAF86]

Kori...doubling a guy like Chris Paul is the absolute kiss of death of all kisses of death. You never double a PG that can pass like Paul can, you never ever ever do that for the simple reason that that is exactly what Paul wants you to do...because that plays to the strongest part of his game, that's what will allow him to truly dominate.


Paul may cop a ballah attitude allah like AI or JR Smith or some guy like that...but he's not like them in that he will try to take over the game with his scoring like they do. He is 100% pass first and that what he wants to do first...he wants the Spurs to double him, with all his heart that is what he wants more than anything. And the Spurs must never ever ever do that.


No...absolutely best to take away all his passing options and force him to go mano a mano against Bruce...


As Sean Elliott once aptly describred...Bruce is like a rash, you can't kick a rash's ass, the more you fight it then worse it gets, until you literally go insane...that is the essene of Bruce Bowen, that is why this is a battle Paul can and will not win....the longer it goes, and more Paul scratches, the more it is going to itch.





As I said earlier...

#1. I think West can be defended...by our bigs pretty effectively.

But if he can't...

#2. He is the one you double, hopefully with Manu, and if not Manu then Parker. He's the one unprepared to handle a double team...hell even Tim Duncan can't handle....you guys think David West can?

There are about 2 bigmen in history that could truly, and I mean truly handle a double team...and West is definitely not better than they are.


West won't know how to handle a double team...Paul will thrive on it.

I agree, make Paul shoot the ball, his jumper looked awful tonight.

[Kori Ellis]

As I said earlier...

#1. I think West can be defended...by our bigs pretty effectively.


What makes you think that?

[timvp]

I don't love the idea of doubling Paul or West. Trapping Paul and trying to make him move side to side and then rotating back might work but Paul might also be too good. Trapping is what the Spurs used to do with Stockton and they do it with Nash some ... but Paul is just a whole new beast. What makes him close to impossible to handle is that not only does he have impeccable court vision, he also is quick and strong enough to make you pay for trying any sort of gimmick against him.

As much as I like Bowen against Paul, I think Bowen needs to go on Stojakovic. You put Bowen on Stojakovic, you can take him out of the series. Paul is pretty much impossible to guard either way. Might as well limit Stojakovic.

Regarding West, I'm not sure what you can do. It'd be nice if the Spurs could throw a Long Three at him who could guard him out on the perimeter and then have enough size if West tries to post up. But of course, the Spurs never did get that Long Three. Truthfully, West himself is more of a Long Three than a power forward. He's about 6-foot-7 and he'd prefer to face up rather than putting his back to the basket.

With West, I guess you just have to put Thomas and Oberto on him and pray he cools off. Maybe throw Udoka at him ... but that probably won't be too successful. I don't know ... it's the same crap as Nowitzki. The Spurs never got the Long Three so now they don't have anyone to guard him.

It's going to be damn tough to slow this team down. Putting Bowen on CP3, Peja and West would be nice. Too bad there is just one Bowen . . .

[whottt]

What makes you think that?

Because Kurt Thomas, Fab Oberto and Robert Horry are not in the NBA because of their physical greatness...they are in the NBA because of their minds and their ability to overcome a physical disadvantage. They will figure West out....I mean these guys have been defending Shaq, Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett for their entire careers...David West aint got nothing they haven't seen before.


I don't think any of them played particularly bad on West tonight...I think West was simply spectacular...he hit shots where they were flat out in his face that he had no business hitting.


Everyone keep saying Horry got smoked...I'd like to see how many points West scored on Horry tonight...I can think of one basket and a couple of FT's off the top of my head. In the first half I don't think he scored on Horry except a trip to the FT line.


But like I said...if you can't figure him out, you double him after he gets that ball with a small. He's not Bill Walton...

[Kori Ellis]

Trapping Paul and trying to make him move side to side and then rotating back might work but Paul might also be too good.

It might not work, but it might disrupt him. I think they have to try it. I know people think it will "turn him into a passer." But he gets rattled sometimes, maybe if it's done right they can take him out of his game and turn him into a bad passer.


It's going to be damn tough to slow this team down. Putting Bowen on CP3, Peja and West would be nice. Too bad there is just one Bowen . . .

I think if Tony can get inspired on D (like he was during stretches of the Suns series), he can work on CP3.

They might have to try having Udoka and Bowen on the court together and see if Udoka can do something against someone (West/Peja/Someone).

[timvp]

One reason why I might keep Bowen on CP3 is to fluster him. CP3's one weakness is he's a hot head. If Bowen pesters him continuously, there's about a 40% chance CP3 will do something dumb and get suspended. You can also piss off CP3 and then he turns into more of a chucker. CP3 isn't going to get flustered with Parker guarding him.

That said, I just don't trust anyone other than Bowen on Peja. This isn't your grandaddy's Peja either. This is a confident Peja who has a superstar PG passing him the ball. Manu has the speed and size to guard him ... but then again Manu is a nomad on defense and will always get sucked in toward the action. Finley has the size but not the speed. If you keep Bowen on CP3, Peja is going to single-handedly win a game in this series with his shooting.

[DespЏrado]

Got Damnit. Put Duncan on West. Duncan is quick as hell when he wants to be. You guard the opposing teams best players with your best defensive player when they play a similar position.

Look Duncan used to be able to guard guys like Garnett, Webber, Dirk all the time. and then magically in '06 he became to slow for it. What happened? He doesn't look slower to me than he did then. Has he become a worse defender since then?

[DAF86]

Defensive keys in my opinion-

-Let Bowen on Paul and don't double him, he didn't have such a great game tonight (he pumped up his stats in garbage time), besides I think that Bowen is slowly getting into his head.

-I've said this alredy but, make west put the ball in the floor and then throw the double team, he prefers to face the baskett instead of get the ball in the post, so maybe Udoka could do a good job on him.

-Have always a guy guarding Peja way beyond the 3pt mark.

-And the most important thing of all: box-out and get the defensive rebound.

P.S: :lol at Kori and timvp arguing on the net just so we don't lose track of the discussion.

[Quasar]

Why not dump Stoudamire for a game and trot out Mahinmi on West for a few seconds just to see how he handles being in a playoff game? Stoudamire's chemistry with the team can't be worse than Mahinmi, especially since big men are expected to just rebound and clean up.

Could be a useful gamble, especially if the Spurs are down by so much again!

[hsxvvd]

http://sport.postimees.ee/foto/6/6/15116647fd28fdba0d2_2.jpg

[Man of Steel]

Double team West or put Bowen on him.

Everytime the Hornets have beaten us, West has gone crazy scoring.:bang

[Man of Steel]

Kori...doubling a guy like Chris Paul is the absolute kiss of death of all kisses of death. You never double a PG that can pass like Paul can, you never ever ever do that for the simple reason that that is exactly what Paul wants you to do...because that plays to the strongest part of his game, that's what will allow him to truly dominate.


Paul may cop a ballah attitude allah like AI or JR Smith or some guy like that...but he's not like them in that he will try to take over the game with his scoring like they do. He is 100% pass first and that what he wants to do first...he wants the Spurs to double him, with all his heart that is what he wants more than anything. And the Spurs must never ever ever do that.


No...absolutely best to take away all his passing options and force him to go mano a mano against Bruce...


As Sean Elliott once aptly describred...Bruce is like a rash, you can't kick a rash's ass, the more you fight it then worse it gets, until you literally go insane...that is the essene of Bruce Bowen, that is why this is a battle Paul can and will not win....the longer it goes, and more Paul scratches, the more it is going to itch.





As I said earlier...

#1. I think West can be defended...by our bigs pretty effectively.

But if he can't...

#2. He is the one you double, hopefully with Manu, and if not Manu then Parker. He's the one unprepared to handle a double team...hell even Tim Duncan can't handle....you guys think David West can?

There are about 2 bigmen in history that could truly, and I mean truly handle a double team...and West is definitely not better than they are.


West won't know how to handle a double team...Paul will thrive on it.


I agree with this 100%.

[slayermin]

I'm sure Pop will try doubling West in game two. It will be interesting to see how well he passes out of them. It took TD a few years to master that part of his game.

I also like the idea of Bowen staying on Stojakovic. His numbers in game one are way over his career averages against the Spurs, especially that shooting percentage. If he goes off like that in three more games during this series, we are fucked.

[slayermin]

I forgot to mention, I am also hoping Ime gets in there against Bonzi. I don't want to advocate violence but seeing Udoka lay him out with an elbow wouldn't suck.

[tp2021]

well goddammit, if we can't figure it out, i pray that Pop can think of something... the spurs need a road win, and it'll be a hell of a lot harder to get one later in the series.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Why not put Bowen on West? I only saw one poster in this 4 page thread make mention of the possibility, so maybe I'm way too far outside the box. To me though, Bruce makes the most sense. He only gives up an inch or 2, but he'll stay in front of him, be physical, constantly harass him.

I think it's kinda silly wasting time trying to use him on CP3. I don't think in the long run he's going to be all that effective of stopping or stunting him. I'd use TP's speed to try to matchup with him instead.

I'd use Manu to defend Peja. Tim on Chandler.

I'd start Oberto, (or even Udoka) and let him defend Mo Pete. Mo Pete plays 20+ minutes for them and contributes 8 points. It doesn't matter who you put on him defensively. Ime/Oberto/Horry/KT. His defender can occasionaly help double Peja or CP3.

Too crazy to work?

[Killakobe81]

WOW never would of guessed ...the hornets woul bring this much debate ...i dont think u can just walk out and win ...but my guess is Tim will bouce back huge...and they have no one to matchup with Manu ... if you guys get something from your role players yall have a chance 2 steal Game 2 ...on the flip side u probably not gonna get 18 again from Bowen...

[E20]

Stop starting stupid threads.

Whoops, wrong thread.............:oops

[timvp]

Why not put Bowen on West? I only saw one poster in this 4 page thread make mention of the possibility, so maybe I'm way too far outside the box. To me though, Bruce makes the most sense. He only gives up an inch or 2, but he'll stay in front of him, be physical, constantly harass him.

I think it's kinda silly wasting time trying to use him on CP3. I don't think in the long run he's going to be all that effective of stopping or stunting him. I'd use TP's speed to try to matchup with him instead.

I'd use Manu to defend Peja. Tim on Chandler.

I'd start Oberto, (or even Udoka) and let him defend Mo Pete. Mo Pete plays 20+ minutes for them and contributes 8 points. It doesn't matter who you put on him defensively. Ime/Oberto/Horry/KT. His defender can occasionaly help double Peja or CP3.

Too crazy to work?It come down to that ... much like Dirk in 2006. The problem would be Bowen will have trouble keeping him of the boards. Plus having anyone outside of Bowen on Peja is asking for trouble. And then there's CP3 . . .

Basically, it'd be nice to put Bowen on all three. I think West is a lower priority but that could change with a couple more 30 point outbursts.

[1Parker1]

Peja scored 22 points in the game yesterday, and Bonzi added 10. Spurs need to concentrate on limiting those two's effectiveness because it seems the most doable. Guarding CP3 and West is going to be difficult. Making sure Peja and Bonzi don't go for a combined 30+ points shouldn't be as hard if you have Bowen and Udoka for defensive purposes.

CP3 didn't have a good offensive night, but he missed a lot of makable shots. Counting on him to continue to do that isn't a good risk to take.

I think the one game the Mavs managed to win, CP3 and West had a horrendous shooting night. One thing about these hornets, they seem to bounce back from bad quarters and bad games rather quickly and with a vengence. Spurs can't let their foot off the peddle like they did in Game 1 and for most of the regular season where they'd have great first halves, and sputter along in the second half of games struggling to score 80 points. Hornets aren't just going to fold.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Basically we. are. fucked. If we had even a Linton Johnson III we'd have a better chance here. Put Bowen on Peja, it's the sure thing. Bowen will not do anything against CP3, its hopeless to hope that we can slow him down or affect him in any way. All we can do as far as he goes is believe that Parker can play Suns Game Three Defense against Paul for every game remaining in this series.

As for West--fuck it, put Duncan on him and leave Duncan on him. Have Duncan post him up ruthlessly, brutally, aggressively, and Pop needs to light a fire under Big Whiney's ass to get him to move those legs and stay in front of West.

[SenorSpur]

I don't love the idea of doubling Paul or West. Trapping Paul and trying to make him move side to side and then rotating back might work but Paul might also be too good. Trapping is what the Spurs used to do with Stockton and they do it with Nash some ... but Paul is just a whole new beast. What makes him close to impossible to handle is that not only does he have impeccable court vision, he also is quick and strong enough to make you pay for trying any sort of gimmick against him.

As much as I like Bowen against Paul, I think Bowen needs to go on Stojakovic. You put Bowen on Stojakovic, you can take him out of the series. Paul is pretty much impossible to guard either way. Might as well limit Stojakovic.

Regarding West, I'm not sure what you can do. It'd be nice if the Spurs could throw a Long Three at him who could guard him out on the perimeter and then have enough size if West tries to post up. But of course, the Spurs never did get that Long Three. Truthfully, West himself is more of a Long Three than a power forward. He's about 6-foot-7 and he'd prefer to face up rather than putting his back to the basket.

With West, I guess you just have to put Thomas and Oberto on him and pray he cools off. Maybe throw Udoka at him ... but that probably won't be too successful. I don't know ... it's the same crap as Nowitzki. The Spurs never got the Long Three so now they don't have anyone to guard him.

It's going to be damn tough to slow this team down. Putting Bowen on CP3, Peja and West would be nice. Too bad there is just one Bowen . . .

Maybe Pop will get desparate enough to activate DeMarr and give him a run at defending West. He's about as close to a
"long three" as anyone else on the roster. Of course, he's not known for his defense so I don't know how that would work out. But, he surely cannot do any worse that the platoon that tried guarding West in Game 1.

[whottt]

Why not put Bowen on West? I only saw one poster in this 4 page thread make mention of the possibility, so maybe I'm way too far outside the box. To me though, Bruce makes the most sense. He only gives up an inch or 2, but he'll stay in front of him, be physical, constantly harass him.

I think it's kinda silly wasting time trying to use him on CP3. I don't think in the long run he's going to be all that effective of stopping or stunting him. I'd use TP's speed to try to matchup with him instead.

I'd use Manu to defend Peja. Tim on Chandler.

I'd start Oberto, (or even Udoka) and let him defend Mo Pete. Mo Pete plays 20+ minutes for them and contributes 8 points. It doesn't matter who you put on him defensively. Ime/Oberto/Horry/KT. His defender can occasionaly help double Peja or CP3.

Too crazy to work?



Because David West is big enough to pick Bruce Bowen up and wipe his ass with him...that's why. I don't like Udoka on him either...


Call me silly, but when I see West knocking Kurt Thomas, Fab Oberto and Robert Horry backwards as he is dribbling, the idea of putting Bruce on him is not the first thing that crosses my mind.


Add to that the fact, that Bruce Bowen is not a particularly good post defender, and I just don't see many positives coming out of this...


If he's going off like he was last night, you double him...I prefer to put Horry on him as the primary defender with a guard coming to double, when he's got the ball, or even waiting until he's putting it on the floor..


I go with Horry because Robert Horry is an excellent double team defender...just ask David Robinson, and Tim (10 TOs) Duncan...

[whottt]

The idea of giving him different looks...well that's kind of what they did to him in game 1, he was defended by just about every big on our roster...if you want to throw Bowen or Duncan on him to make it even more diverse fine...but I don't really get why people keep drawing comparions to West and Dirk and acting like you'd employ a similar strategy against both of them.

I'm going to stay with the doubling as I don't really think the Hornets have reliable 3 shooting outside of Peja(who isn't really that reliable in the playoffs).



I won't say Bruce can't defend him...I'm just saying on paper it looks like a bad idea...but Bruce has proven me wrong before and stepped up to this sort of challenge, although I've never seen him step up against a guy with the power of West though...

[Brutalis]

We do not have quickness on defense in the paint nor speed. Our bigs are slow and Timmy seems to over commit on action away from the basket and get caught with the quick pass for a jam or easy 2. Not all were his fault, but how many are we giving up like that?

Let alone the Suns series we survived.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Basically, it'd be nice to put Bowen on all three. I think West is a lower priority but that could change with a couple more 30 point outbursts.

I already think West is a bigger priority than Peja. He'd scare me a hell of a lot more than Stojakovic.

West has been dropping a good 7 points more than Peja in the postseason.

More importantly, he's taken almost 7 more shot attempts per game than Peja. And they're higher percentage shots. And West has been just over 40%FG while Peja's at 37%.

And West gets to the line more often. During the regular season, Peja had 140 FT attempts to Wests' 353.

Recognizing I can't stop CP3, I focus all my efforts on West ... meaning I sick BB on his ass!




I won't say Bruce can't defend him...I'm just saying on paper it looks like a bad idea...but Bruce has proven me wrong before and stepped up to this sort of challenge, although I've never seen him step up against a guy with the power of West though...
I hear where you're coming from, and I do largely agree. I just don't know if doubling is the answer, and a little more creativity and aggressiveness might be needed in this series.

What Bruce lacks in size in this matchup, he makes up for in heart. Effort. Desire. He'll be more tenacious and frustrating than anything West saw in Game 1. I think he'd do a better job in getting down the court and denying him ideal positioning. He'd do better with his quickness of denying him the ball, and swiping at it when he does have it.

Obviously West can back him down ... but I think it's also more likely West picks up offensive fouls against him.

I think KT/Horry/Oberto simply wait for West to determine what he's going to do, and then react. Whereas Bowen will do a better job of dictating what he wants West to do.


I don't know. I could be full of shit. Maybe it wouldn't work at all.


A big help though would be to get it going on offense. Take it to them. The entire frontcourt has to do a better job of working inside. Punishing them. Making them get in foul trouble. Make West have to go to the bench and you don't have to worry about defending him!

[boutons_]

West is not going to avg 37 ppg like Amare did when the Spurs beat the Suns 4-1.

West didn't kill the Spurs, Tim did, coupled with another 3rd qtr Spurs collapse. As bad as it was, Spurs were on -8 with 5 minutes left.

The Hornets/West were very beatable last night, as badly as Tim played.

I ain't worried about West. The Spurs got a horrendous game out of their systems, and the game was very much in reach if only we had SOME output from Tim.

You're a bunch pussies :lol Find your balls, if you can.

I'm not worried about West at all if the Spurs play their game.

[urunobili]

West is not going to avg 37 ppg like Amare did when the Spurs beat the Suns 4-1.

West didn't kill the Spurs, Tim did, coupled with another 3rd qtr Spurs collapse. As bad as it was, Spurs were on -8 with 5 minutes left.

The Hornets/West were very beatable last night, as badly as Tim played.

I ain't worried about West. The Spurs got a horrendous game out of their systems, and the gamw was very much in reach to an AVG output from Tim.

You're a bunch pussies :lol Find your balls, if you can.

I'm not worried about West at all if the Spurs play their game.

now THIS is what i am talking about... i don't think Pop will make dramatic adjustments... trying Udoka on Wells and Peja will be a must for sure... gr8 post... we lost the game due to Timmy's lack of production more than anything... :wakeup

[TheTruth62987]

#1. He was exceptionally hot tonight, exceptionally hot and I don't think the Spurs defended him poorly for the most part. This guy knocked down some tough damn shots.


#2. If he continues to stay hot...it might be a good idea to not fuck around with it and go ahead double team him.

IMO, he's not ready to handle a pro double team yet.



The Spurs need to take West away and turn Paul into a scorer(preferably with Bowen on him) to win this series.

Neither Bowen or Duncan will be effective against David West. West has an amazing mid range shot, probably the best in the league. If you put Duncan on him, that pulls Duncan out of the paint and frees up space for CP3 to drive and score. I've seen him go off for 30+ points doing this on many occasions this season. If you put Bowen on him, West will use the size and strength advantage and back him down in the post, and do a quick turn around jumper, or drive on him. The only thing you can do is double him up, and if that happens look out cause CP3, Peja, Chandler and Mo Pete are going to have a field day.

[slayermin]

The only thing you can do is double him up, and if that happens look out cause CP3, Peja, Chandler and Mo Pete are going to have a field day.

That's if he recognizes the double teams quickly and passes out of them effectively. I don't think it's a sure thing that he will. It took Tim Duncan years to master his ability to pass out of doubles.

[Pistons < Spurs]

now THIS is what i am talking about... i don't think Pop will make dramatic adjustments... trying Udoka on Wells and Peja will be a must for sure... gr8 post... we lost the game due to Timmy's lack of production more than anything... :wakeup

But don't forget that Bowens 17 points helped offset Timmy's lack of production in scoring.

Duncan, in the post season has been averaging 21 pints. BB just 3.5 So 24.5 combined.

Last game BB gave you 17 and TD 5 ... 22 combined.

Same overall production, it just came from the opposite player this time.

[SPARKY]

Spurs will put Bowen on Predrag for the game. What hurt the Spurs more than West last game was Predrag putting up 20+ points and Wells scoring 10+. West has established that he is going to get his against SA (ala Amare).

[wijayas]

Spurs will put Bowen on Predrag for the game. What hurt the Spurs more than West last game was Predrag putting up 20+ points and Wells scoring 10+. West has established that he is going to get his against SA (ala Amare).

Yes. And West plays D. Amare almost plays D. That's the big difference.:depressed :depressed

[wijayas]

That's if he recognizes the double teams quickly and passes out of them effectively. I don't think it's a sure thing that he will. It took Tim Duncan years to master his ability to pass out of doubles.

This might work. Double West. But still protect the paint, meaning Duncan stays on the low post; not guarding West.

How did Nellie disrupt Dirk's game? The same strategy might work against West...

[wijayas]

But don't forget that Bowens 17 points helped offset Timmy's lack of production in scoring.

Duncan, in the post season has been averaging 21 pints. BB just 3.5 So 24.5 combined.

Last game BB gave you 17 and TD 5 ... 22 combined.

Same overall production, it just came from the opposite player this time.

When Bruce is hot like this, Spurs normally win big. Too bad Timmy was off. But have heart. Timmy won't be bad for many games...

[clambake]

don't panic and pull an avery by changing everything that has brought you success.

it's just one game.

[wijayas]

don't panic and pull an avery by changing everything that has brought you success.

it's just one game.

:toast :toast :toast

[manufor3]

Maybe we should put Bonner on him. When Matt falls down, he might take out one of their players.

Or Duncan.

Couldn't hurt either way.

:lol

[florige]

don't panic and pull an avery by changing everything that has brought you success.

it's just one game.


I pretty much keep the same strategy against CP and West. I might throw an occassional double team at West. But if I'm Pop I'm doing what TimVp mentioned and put Bowen on Peja and completely take him out of this series. I bring in Udoka to counter the Bonzi factor. Paul and West can't beat our team alone with their scoring. You are not going to rattle Paul with Bowen sticking him imo. I just think that would be a waste of a defender doing that. I would rather have Bowen sticking Peja that Manu because like TimVp mentioned Manu like to cheat inside where the action is too much and ends up leaving Peja wide open in route to scoring 20+ again. We can;t have that if West and Paul are getting theirs all night too.

[PDXSpursFan]

- Focus on completely shutting down Peja with Bowen
- Use Duncan on West to eliminate his interior game (make him a jumpshooter)
- Udoka should guard Wells every second he's on the court
- Let Parker on Paul

[TampaDude]

Horry should just hip-check CP3 into the scorer's table...half the Hornets get suspended for coming off the bench...DING...series over! :lol

[roturn]

Here is how I would defend D-Dub if I were you:

1. Play Zone and double down on him in the post. Force him to kick the ball out to Peja and Mo-Pete. While good shooters they can be spotty at times, especially Mo-Pete.

2. Face guard CP3 when D-Dub has the ball, keep him from getting the ball when two defenders on are on West. You don't want CP3 with the ball when he knows there is an open man. He will find him.

3. Put Duncan on D-Dub at least part of the time and hope Chandler doesn't get 20 rebounds and gets too many big-easy's from CP3.

4. Prevent D-dub from getting the ball too deep in the post. If you can push him out and he has the ball with his turned to goal at 17ft. You are doing a good job and might prevent the need to bring the double team.

But all this is easier said than done. These are not new concepts and I am sure your Poppovich has thought of these before.

Here is to a good game 2. The first one was fun, lots of drama.

Just remember, STOP THE FLOP!!!

[whottt]

David West isn't a dumbass like Amare is. And Byron Scott has more control of his team than Mike D'antoni does(he's also less of a dumbass than D'antoni).

[DarrinS]

David West isn't a dumbass like Amare is. And Byron Scott has more control of his team than Mike D'antoni does(he's also less of a dumbass than D'antoni).


QFT.


Also, West is better at creating his own shot.

[phxspurfan]

- Focus on completely shutting down Peja with Bowen
- Use Duncan on West to eliminate his interior game (make him a jumpshooter)
- Udoka should guard Wells every second he's on the court
- Let Parker on Paul

Besides Duncan on West, isn't this what we saw in game 1?

[phxspurfan]

I would put bowen on Paul, and Udoka on Peja. Bowen's length and overall better defense can be used on their best player. Udoka can put a body on Peja and attempt to crowd him when he shoots those 3s. It's not perfect, but I think it uses what we have in the right way.

I think the key matchup no one talks about is going to be Duncan vs. Chandler. If chandler can limit Duncan and frustrate him the way other long C's have, the Spurs may be in trouble.

[DAF86]

Just remember, STOP THE FLOP!!!

That's easier said than done, Hornets players are really good at flopping.

[jmard5]

Nah. It would be much better if Duncan shows up this time both on O and D.

[PDXSpursFan]

- Focus on completely shutting down Peja with Bowen
- Use Duncan on West to eliminate his interior game (make him a jumpshooter)
- Udoka should guard Wells every second he's on the court
- Let Parker on Paul


Besides Duncan on West, isn't this what we saw in game 1?

Did you watch the same game than me? Let's see in the game that I saw:

- Bowen didn't focus on shutting down Peja. He spent a lot of time chasing Paul.
- Udoka only played garbage time

[DarrinS]

Did you watch the same game than me? Let's see in the game that I saw:

- Bowen didn't focus on shutting down Peja. He spent a lot of time chasing Paul.
- Udoka only played garbage time



Pop still doesn't trust Udoka all that much. At least that's what I'm inferring from Ime's lack of playing time.

[roturn]

That's easier said than done, Hornets players are really good at flopping.

Ginobili is the queen of flopping. And Bowen and Parker laid on court till the refs felt sorry for them in game 1.

You know it...Just listen to the chants tonight. We will be yelling:

STOP THE FLOP! STOP THE FLOP! STOP THE FLOP!

That's all you had in game 1...

[cjjr72984]

If we double West, Tyson Chandler will be alley-ooping down the Spurs throat.

Yep! I HOPE the Spurs double him and "let" Chris Paul run free. Cause then if that happens, then CP will open up the floor for our shooters (Peja, Mopete, etc.)

On the other hand, putting Bowen on West might be yalls best option. If you put Tim on him West will shoot perimeter jumpers to force Tim from under the rim to take away his rebounding ability.

[PDXSpursFan]

Pop won't try anything to "solve the West problem". Instead he will solve the "lack of energy/hustle problem" we had on the 2nd haft of Game 1 and (hopefully) that should be enough to win Game 2 and steal HCA.

[whottt]

I'm sorry but Hornet fan(as well as E20) must think I was saying we should double off Chandler...at no point did I say that. You guys have a very limited definition of double team and one that really isn't used that often. I didn't say double off Chandler. I never said it one time...Usually the only time the PF and C are used together in a double team is in a...well in a triple team, and not in a double team. After you guys watch some more basketball you won't own yourselves like this as much...

[z0sa]

Let DW go 1on1 against kt and the crew for 3 quarters, without doubling, so the shooters cannot get in a rhythm. I think our defense has proven good enough to at least contain Paul.

Come 4th, stick tim on DW, and start doubling. The shooters are cold and only CP3 should be warm, besides west. thats when we make the other people beat you, and if west can somehow make it work -- props.

Theres only so much you can do. The hornets have weapons and part of this game is luck.

[timvp]

http://spurstalk.com/davidwestshoot.gif

That's West's shooting percentages from the regular season. He's a good midrange shooter but he's not as automatic as he looked in Game 1. This is even more reason to defend him the same way as the Spurs did in Game 1. If he hits those shots again, then maybe you then bring the double-team. However, there's a chance that he won't keep up his hot shooting touch, especially seeing as he was pretty average when it came to hitting those shots in the regular season.