Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Hornets Game 1

[timvp]

Where have I seen this before? The Spurs played the Hornets well in the first half and then fall apart after halftime on their way to getting blow out. Oh that’s right, it happen twice in the regular season. Add one more to that total.

The Spurs came out shooting the ball well to begin the game and by riding their hot three-point shooting, San Antonio was up four points at the end of the second quarter. The Spurs' offense sputtered in the second half and the Hornets outscored the Spurs 56-33 in the second half to win 101-82.

The Hornets deserve a lot of credit for the win. David West (30 points and nine rebounds) was a monster, Chris Paul (17 points and 13 assists) was orchestrating the attack and Peja Stojakovic (22 points on 15 shots) was playing with exceptional confidence. Bonzi Wells (ten points) was his typical Spurs Killer self and Tyson Chandler (ten points and 15 rebounds) helped the Hornets outrebound the Spurs 50-34. In the second half, the Hornets just beat the Spurs down. That’s all there is to it.

The Spurs have a lot to fix before Game 2. Number one of the list is to figure out how to defend West. This is the third time West has dismantled the Spurs. The Spurs need to figure out who can slow him down or at least find a strategy that won’t allow him to put up Tim Duncan numbers. The Spurs also can’t let Stojakovic go off, especially if West is also going off. Somebody on the Hornets has to be slowed.

Overall, this was a very disappointing loss and the worst part is that some of the problems don’t seem to be easily correctable. The game had a very 2006 Mavericks feel to it. The Hornets were the team I feared most heading into the playoffs and all my worst fears, and then some, played out.

-Tim Duncan played the worst basketball game of his life. And that isn’t a hyperbole. Tim Duncan played the worst basketball game of his life. The Hornets were sending hard double-teams at him and that got him out of his rhythm. But even worse than that were his three rebounds in 37 minutes. Considering the Spurs got murdered on the board and considering he was on Chandler defensively, that is a shockingly low number. Three rebounds in 37 minutes on the road in an important playoff game? That’s just embarrassing. Offensively, he was 1-for-9 from the floor. Most of those misses were due to soft and weak attempts. Instead of playing basketball, Duncan spent the night whining. It would have been nice if Duncan stopped acting like a spoiled brat long enough to help the team out. The words just don’t exist that can explain how pitiful Duncan was tonight. He should be ashamed not only with how he played but how he hung the rest of the team out to dry. Struggle on offense? That’s fine. But at least try to help out by grabbing boards or at least give an effort that wasn’t a total embarrassment. Duncan needs to wipe away the tears, leave his ref complaining in the hotel room and come out in Game 2 ready to play.

-Manu Ginobili’s stats look good. He had 19 points, seven assists and six rebounds, while hitting 7-of-14 shots from the field. You can’t really complain about those numbers. However, his play in the third quarter left a lot to be desired. He had a couple of bad turnovers that led to easy transition bucks for the Hornets. He had another couple of bad decisions that came back to bite the Spurs. Ginobili also was a bit too three-point happy. He was 3-for-9 on three-pointers and 4-for-5 on two-pointers. In future games, he has to attack the basket unless he’s wide open from beyond the arc. Defensively, he wasn’t great but he was adequate. If he’s on Stojakovic or Peterson, he can’t roam into the paint. He got better at not roaming as the game went on. Overall it was a decent enough game for Ginobili. Playing smarter will be number one on the agenda for Ginobili in Game 2. (Oh and for the love of the basketball gods, stop forcing passes to Robert Horry. Whenever he’s on the court with Horry, Ginobili tries to make bullet passes to Horry as if Horry is going to do anything when he gets the ball. The passes to Horry either get stolen or sail out of bounds.)

-Tony Parker didn’t do a very good job of changing gears against the Hornets. He played as if he was still going against the Suns. Against the Hornets, Parker has to play differently. The Hornets are more able to play the passing lanes and trap him in the lane. Parker’s failure to adjust led to a team-high five turnovers. Outside of his turnovers, Parker had 23 points, five assists and five rebounds, while hitting 9-of-17 shots. I thought his defense on Paul was about as good as can be expected. He let Paul get loose a few times – but Paul is just damn good. On the whole, Parker wasn’t horrible but the Spurs need him to play better to win this series.

-Bruce Bowen did about all he could do to get this win. He had 17 points, five rebounds and five assists, while hitting 5-of-10 shots from the field – all of which were from three-point land. After not attempting one three-pointer in the Phoenix Suns series, Bowen found himself open from beyond the arc. Defensively, he was good against Paul. He didn’t shut Paul down but I don’t think shutting down Paul is humanly possible. Offensively, all of Bowen’s scoring came in the first half. It would have been nice if Bowen could continue to score in the second half, but 17 points from Bowen should be plenty.

-Michael Finley scored enough for the Spurs to win. He had 13 points on 5-for-11 points from the field and 3-for-8 on three-pointers. His defense wasn’t that good but it also wasn’t as horrible as we’ve seen out of him. Finley’s job is to score and hit more than 40% of his shots. He did that so the Spurs can’t be too mad with what they got out of Finley. Better defense would be nice going forward in this series.

-In 20 minutes, Kurt Thomas scored two points and pulled down two rebounds. He started at center and got the job of trying to slow down West. Obviously, Thomas wasn’t too successful. He might have been more successful than anyone else but that isn’t saying much. Thomas needs to figure out what to do against West and he also needs to pull down more rebounds. Two in 20 minutes isn’t going to cut it.

-Fabricio Oberto was on the court for 20 minutes and had one point and six rebounds. Defensively, he got lit up by West. West was just toying with Oberto out there. Oberto does deserve some credit for outrebounding Duncan and Thomas combined but the Spurs need more out of him. Passable defense on West would be huge. A few trash buckets around the rim would be very much appreciated. After watching Game 1, it became obvious that Thomas or Oberto will have to step up for the Spurs to win this series. Oberto has the championship experience and the chemistry with his teammates, so it’s time for him to come up big and prove he shines brightest when the pressure is on.

-Robert Horry played 12 minutes and he didn’t have any answers for West either. Offensively, he was a liability on the court. I’m not sure that this is the series to be trying to dust off Horry. He’s just not in a good rhythm and isn’t helping much on either side of the court. I don’t mind him in small doses but as a part of the regular rotation, I just don’t think Horry is ready yet. In his 12 minutes, Horry had no points and two rebounds.

-Jacque Vaughn played eight minutes and played well enough. He wasn’t great but he also wasn’t hurting the Spurs. Two points, two rebounds, no turnovers and one shot attempt in eight minutes is a good night for Vaughn. When the Hornets go with their small backcourt, expect Vaughn to get the call.

-Brent Barry played four minutes in the fourth quarter when Pop was looking for a spark. Barry didn’t provide the spark. In fact, all he did was turn the ball over twice and miss a three-pointer. However, if the Hornets continue to send hard double-teams at Duncan, I want to see more of Barry on the court. Barry is on the team specifically to make teams pay for doubling Duncan.

-Damon Stoudamire and Ime Udoka only played about a minute and a half of garbage time. Stoudamire not playing isn’t a surprise. Udoka not being a part of the rotation is pretty surprising. The Hornets have some bruisers who Udoka could match up well against. Udoka’s perimeter shooting could also come in handy.

-I thought Pop got thoroughly outcoached by Byron Scott. Pop’s plan going into the game was obviously for Duncan to get a lot of looks in the low block. Scott was a step ahead of Pop and instructed his squad to double-team Duncan while also being physical with him in the low block. With the Spurs’ first option on offense bottled up, the team didn’t know what to do offensively.

Defensively, Pop didn’t do anything special to slow West. It was like Pop was just hoping the regular season success West had against the Spurs was a fluke. For the third time, West proved he can light up the Spurs – especially if no extra attention is paid to him.

In Game 2, what I want to see is a return to the basics. Put Parker on Paul and tell Parker to harass him as much as possible. Put Bowen on Stojakovic and take Stojakovic out of the game. Give West different looks. Start Thomas on him but also don’t be afraid to put players such as Duncan or Udoka on him. Sending a double-team to West could also help West get out of rhythm. Right now, West is giving the Spurs Dirk Nowitzki type problems. It’s time to recognize he’s a star player and start mixing it up on him.

It’s tough to figure out if it’s time for Pop to fully panic or stick with his guns. In 2006, he went into full panic mode and threw away all his principals. Game 1 was a bad performance but do the Spurs need to change? Looking at it in optimistic light, Duncan will never play this bad again, the Spurs will shoot better from the line (12-for-21 for 57.1%), the Spurs will rebound better and the Hornets can’t plan to keep hitting tough shots. But then again, this is the third time the Hornets have blown out the Spurs this season and all three losses were strikingly similar.

The bottomline is the Spurs lost a road game and they have plenty of time to get back into this series. In fact, one win on Monday and the Spurs get control of the series. It’s not time to panic but it is time to recognize that the Hornets are a true championship contender. They are a well coached team that plays tough and smart. The Hornets actually remind me of a younger version of San Antonio. The Spurs are going to have to play very well to survive this series.

Get Game 2.

Believe.

[DespЏrado]

I thought I would have told Duncan after tonights game, that if he was going to let the refs or anybody take him out of the game he should have just gotten himself thrown out so that at least A) the others would have known he wasn't going to be playing, and b) may have lit an emotional fire under his teammates. He might have done the team some good that way.

[Deimosfobos]

Duncan was painfull to watch today, Manu and parker were decent, but both fucked up several times on the second half.

Hope we play much better on game 2, we need to show them we can beat them NOW, before they get too confident.

West was amazing...

[Tradition]

It’s not time to panic but it is time to recognize that the Hornets are a true championship contender. They are a well coached team that plays tough and smart.


Flawed logic there timvp. ALL superstars MUST experience what losing in the playoffs feels like at least once. Jordan,Kobe,Duncan,etc etc. Chris Paul isnt avoiding this either. He will suffer elimination in the playoffs this year.

[whottt]

I don't agree with the Mavs comparisons...the Mavs role players and bench were a hell of a lot tougher than the ones for the Hornets....Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris...these guys were a complete pain in the ass and the Hornets do not have anyone that compares to them.

These Hornets do not have all the great iso guys that the Mavs and, the Spurs do not have to defend them the same way.


On top of that...that Mavs team features almost no passing, this Hornets team is built on passing.



I hope the Spurs have more respect for the Hornets than you seem to think they have... if they don't then we've got problems.


Because Byron Scott is a good coach(as should be obvious to all Spurfans from his time with the Nets)...and Paul is a freaking once in a generation PG.


But David West? David West is not Tim Duncan...though he may have appeared to be him tonight. You take him out...and you leave Bruce on Paul.



I'm not particularly worried about Peja...he'll choke eventually, it's what he does.

[DespЏrado]

I tend to agree with Whott on this one. The Hornet's arent as good as you are giving them credit for tonight. It was an ugly loss, and the Spurs deserved to lose. But they also didn't show up to play tonight.

I'm not ready to think that the Hornet's have our number quite the way that the Mavs in 06 or the Lakers of old, they just aren't that good yet. Yet being the operative word.

With that said I would like for the real Spurs to show up for game 2. Not whoever showed up thinking they could loligag through tonight's game. They actually show up to play a ball game and I like our chances against the Hornets.

[timvp]

Flawed logic there timvp. ALL superstars MUST experience what losing in the playoffs feels like at least once. Jordan,Kobe,Duncan,etc etc. Chris Paul isnt avoiding this either. He will suffer elimination in the playoffs this year.You'd think a Laker fan would have heard of Magic Johnson.

[polandprzem]

Okay, I will read later


That game was so hard to watch it was insaine.
I watched the Mavs series and I was optimistic about spurs chances, knowing that the spurs can move the ball and can provide 3 pointers - something they were unable to do against Phoenix. Plus, I thought Chandler is not a great 1-1 defender, but reality hurts.

Youngsters were rusty but when they start rolling it was over as the spurs went step forward of the startgate and stayed there. And they let Orleans do absolutely everything. Tim with his head down was awefull to watch. In a long time I haven't seen him so pissed at himself and situation. He collaps as he feels guilty - the worst mental aspect of TD.

It will be tougher then I expected.

Scott has become a real great coach.
How he defended TD is the most effective defense IMO.
Give him as many defenders as possible, and let him fight for position, not let him go down low and do not give him space when on permiter. Pretty similar strategy to what we have seen in 2003 series agains Scott. And those defenders are extreamly aggresive like in 2003. Back then TD overcame that as he was in his prime and best shape.

Bonzi and the offensive rebound is another problem. This is not Phoenix with only 7 guys. This is a problem of youg athletic guys with no pressure. Wow.

West was well covered - good tactic by Pop. What else could Kurt Thomas do?

New Orleans made Mavs beat them by jumpshots. Not letting them inside. The problem of Avery's coaching IMO was not letting Dirk go in the post ... TD must to be in better position before he gets the ball.

Damn I was affraid of that game - spurs seems always out of shape when they have too many days off, they getting relax too much and have too much of a fun. NO are the real deal and I think they forgot about it.

Time to get back on the floor and show that Champions heart still beating.


Ps. I might be not much accurate with everything as I was at work when the game was on. So I was watching the game with one eye sometimes and it was 4-6:30 in da mornin'

[timvp]

I don't agree with the Mavs comparisons...the Mavs role players and bench were a hell of a lot tougher than the ones for the Hornets....Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris...these guys were a complete pain in the ass and the Hornets do not have anyone that compares to them. West gives the same trouble as Dirk.

Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harris + West + Stackhouse

Stojakovic = JHo + KVH

Chandler >> Dampier + Damp

And that's not even getting to Bonzi freakin' Wells. I'm not sure what you are talking about. These Hornets are much more talented than those Mavs. Those Mavs weren't even that talented ... they were just built to beat the Spurs.

These Hornets are talented and also have the pieces needed to beat the Spurs.


But David West? David West is not Tim Duncan...though he may have appeared to be him tonight. You take him out...and you leave Bruce on Paul.



I'm not particularly worried about Peja...he'll choke eventually, it's what he does.I hope you're right. West has lit up the Spurs exact same way three times now. It's time to take notice and admit West might be the reincarnation of Dirk.

I've never seen Peja play this confidently. He was a choke waiting to happen on the Kings. Now even he plays with heart. The old Peja would never try to exploit Manu's defense. This Peja attacks Manu like he has a mismatch.

[cly2tw]

Spurs overachieve admirably. They beat a team with more talent in Suns with coaching, preparation, and savvy. But they are now again against a better talented, much younger team in NO. This time without the help of a stupid coach to make it easy for the Spurs, you guys must try to power through with whatever is on the team talentwise and hope for implosion on the Hornets' part. For that, Duncan must play more forceful and score even under double teaming. Parker and Manu won't be of the same impact they had in the Suns series. The other role players won't shoot as well as they did in 1st half of game 1. Duncan is your last hope for miracle.

[DespЏrado]

The difference between Dirk and West is that Duncan, given the opportunity, can actually guard West. And West doesn't have the shot to make the Spurs pay for doing that quite the way Dirk did.

And Paul is not better than Harris + West (Terry?) + Stackhouse combined The mavs were so good because we could never contain all of those guys. It was the sum of their parts that made the Mavs better as a team when they faced us. We can live with just Paul going off on us.

I think we have to go small against the Hornet's though to force a Duncan vs. West matchup. I just don't think there is another option.

And Udoka has got to freaking play.

[JackArse]

does anyone think there might be a letdown after beating the suns?

[polandprzem]

When Bowen was hitting those shots I was like: ohh okay it's all good, now TD and Tp must get going and we can be very much succesfull. It didn't happened.

As for Duncan - he will be out of rythym when he will get 2team at him and multiple defenders who guards diferently. Just do not make him feel comfortable and figure the enemy out.

Scott knows how to beat the spurs, Pop still must to figure out how to beat Hornets, that big adventage on Scott.
As I said before - spurs are predictable they just had to fight through.

[timvp]

The difference between Dirk and West is that Duncan, given the opportunity, can actually guard West. And West doesn't have the shot to make the Spurs pay for doing that quite the way Dirk did.Dirk didn't use his three-point shot in the 2006 series. If think he hit like one or two threes that entire series. Dirk killed the Spurs in the same area of the court that West has killed the Spurs three times this season.

West might even be a tad bit harder to guard than Dirk because Dirk will bail you out with fade away 18-footers against point guards. West won't do that.

Dirk's advantage is he can get to the free throw line better than West.


And Paul is not better than Harris + West (Terry?) + Stackhouse combined The mavs were so good because we could never contain all of those guys. It was the sum of their parts that made the Mavs better as a team when they faced us. We can live with just Paul going off on us.I'd take Paul, Stojakovic, Peterson and Wells seven days a week over Terry, Harris, JHo and Stackhouse. I don't even think it is that close.


I think we have to go small against the Hornet's though to force a Duncan vs. West matchup. I just don't think there is another option.I don't like Duncan vs. West for long stretches. For a few minutes, it's doable.


And Udoka has got to freaking play.Unless the Spurs figure it out early in Game 2, I'll agree.

While I'm comparing the Hornets to the 2006 Mavs, I'm not saying the Spurs are doomed. The Spurs can beat the Hornets. It's going to be damn hard but they can beat them. I'm not even overly worried after this Game 1 loss. The Spurs needed a split and they can still get that.

[whottt]

West gives the same trouble as Dirk.

I don't agree with that at all...Dirk is a hell of a lot faster, better jump shooter, and better dribbler than West. He's also a hell of a lot longer. Dirk is a freaking 2 guard in a 7 foot body...David West is not.




Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harris + West + Stackhouse

That's not really true...Paul can be defended with one man, Harris, Terry and Stack require 3 men to defend them. If Paul was playing 1 on 3 against Terry, Stack and Harris would you expect him to beat them? A similar principle applies here.




Stojakovic = JHo + KVH

Ok...


Chandler >> Dampier + Damp

maybe a little...




And that's not even getting to Bonzi freakin' Wells.

Ime Udoka was revealed early on this season to be the Bonzi solution...am I the only one that remembers this?




I'm not sure what you are talking about.

That's ok...I'm willing to wait for you to catch up :smokin





These Hornets are much more talented than those Mavs.

1-4 maybe...but not 1-9...and not at the guard spots.




Those Mavs weren't even that talented ... they were just built to beat the Spurs.

That's not true...they had guys that had been defacto franchise players coming off their bench..the Mavs were deeper...especially with ball handlers.


These Hornets are talented and also have the pieces needed to beat the Spurs.




I hope you're right. West has lit up the Spurs exact same way three times now. It's time to take notice and admit West might be the reincarnation of Dirk.

Like I said...West isn't near as fluid as Dirk is. He's not a big 2 guard like Dirk.





I've never seen Peja play this confidently. He was a choke waiting to happen on the Kings. Now even he plays with heart.


:lol Peja had some dominant playoff games...


Here's the deal with Peja...when his team is playing well? He'll play well...when his team is faltering? He will be leading the faltering...Peja never steps up when his team is going badly. You start beating the Hornets...you will beat Peja.




The old Peja would never try to exploit Manu's defense. This Peja attacks Manu like he has a mismatch.

That's just coaching...that's basically what Pop does..hell Chandler even drove on Duncan. It worked tonight because the Spurs weren't really expecting it...




Looks...you guys are sitting here saying no one can guard West...and then you keep trying to think of players that we can put on him. You are pointing out the problem with him but then you keep trying the same solution..when the answer is, he's the one you double.

[Loose Cannon]

Duncan is your last hope for miracle.

Yeah the Spurs winning a title would definitely be a miracle.

Much like the sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening is a miracle.


A miracle would be the Suns beating a Tim Duncan led team in the playoffs.

[polandprzem]

here we go :rolleyes

[SpursFan0728]

I thought Duncan was quite lost on defense as well...
Hie was late on this rotations and was lazy and didn't try to bother shots

[Quasar]

-I thought Pop got thoroughly outcoached by Byron Scott. Pop’s plan going into the game was obviously for Duncan to get a lot of looks in the low block. Scott was a step ahead of Pop and instructed his squad to double-team Duncan while also being physical with him in the low block. With the Spurs’ first option on offense bottled up, the team didn’t know what to do offensively.

Did Manu gave away the offensive game plan in his recent interview? Perhaps the NO coaches read spurs talk!


But like all series are different, by the same token, now against the Hornets, we are going to play more inside. that will be the 1st option in the halfcourt. Because Duncan's game causes a lot of pain to New Orleans. After that, we'll take advantage of Tony, who is having a tremendous playoffs. Together with him, we'll run and do pick and roll.

Heh, it is true that the game plan is always to go through Tim anyway...

[whottt]

You know a better comparison for this Hornets team is the 2004 Spurs...with Paul and West being Parker and Duncan and with the Parker and Duncan positions of dominance being switched. I'm not saying these guys have the exact same moves or anything...but the way to beat them is similar.

If you remember...Phil Jackson doubled both Tim(after he got the ball) and Tony...but Tony proved to be the weak link due to inexperience....

So basically a similar philosphy that was used to beat the 2004 Spurs can be used to beat these Hornets.

David West is the 2004 Tony Parker of this Hornets team...you double him after he gets the ball and he will not be able to handle it. You double on him with a ball hawk like Manu or perhaps Parker and let them go for steals.

Chris Paul is the 2004 Tim Duncan...while Duncan was doubled pretty effectively, I would not even attempt it with Paul...leave him to Bruce and let Bruce wear him down.


That's how you beat this Hornets team...trust me, Peja is not going to lift his team up from a collapse...do not waste Bruce on him.

[tmtcsc]

Bullshit. They are THAT good. Do you think they just beat us and no one else ? Man, they were down 30 to the Lakers and made a huge comeback. They fell short, but still...no lead is big enough. They believe in each other and they know their roles. They held the # 1 position in the West longer than anyone else did I think.

We will have to come up with some pretty special performances to beat them. Once is a fluke, twice is legit and three times is habit.

Let's hope Tim comes out pissed off and plays with a sense of purpose. Tony was good enough, Manu and Bruce did enough, but Tim was a no show.

Why aren't people giving the Hornets any credit ? The media isn't either. I would not be surprised 1 bit if they win it all. It's them or us.

[DespЏrado]

Look can West put the ball on the floor and drive around Duncan? ....every time?
Can West hit a jump shot over Duncan?
Can West hit three pointers and pull Duncan too far away from the lane to sag?

And if Duncan isn't in the lane do the Hornets have enough dribble penetrators like Harris and Stack?

No? Then Duncan isn't going to be a liability guarding West. You even admit West doesn't have Dirk's ability to draw fouls, which was a huge reason to keep Duncan off of Dirk. Duncan can guard West. He is an all world defender and he would pride himself on stopping West or making it up on the other side of the court. You have to give him that challenge to respond to, or you just end up playing not to lose.

[Quasar]

By the way... you're speaking about mobile, fast, physical... Why not dump Stoudamire for a game and trot out Mahinmi on West for a few seconds just to see how he handles it?

Could be a useful gamble, especially if the Spurs are down by so much again!

[Loose Cannon]

The liability with Duncan guarding West is obviously foul trouble.

Let's not go overboard here. All the Spurs needed to do from the start is take one in NOLA. All they need to do to accomplish that is win on Monday. A win on Monday and we're back in control. And we're winning on Monday.

[DespЏrado]

The liability with Duncan guarding West is obviously foul trouble.

Let's not go overboard here. All the Spurs needed to do from the start is take one in NOLA. All they need to do to accomplish that is win on Monday. A win on Monday and we're back in control. And we're winning on Monday.

They deal with that every game. You keep Duncan on him until he gets the first foul. Then you switch defenders to Kurt, Horry, Udoka, or Oberto. And then you start the double teams. But you can always start the game and end it with Duncan on West, and manage the fouls.

[polandprzem]

whottt you want to double team West but who you want to do it with?

The spurs are slow enough to let Mo Pete, Peja or Pargo have wide open opurtunity to make baskets of jumpshots. And Scott can make the spurs double him with Finley who is not that great in rotation D

[timvp]

I don't agree with that at all...Dirk is a hell of a lot faster, better jump shooter, and better dribbler than West. He's also a hell of a lot longer. Dirk is a freaking 2 guard in a 7 foot body...David West is not. You can switch a point guard off on Dirk. Hell, AJ used to be able to shut Dirk down. West has scored every time the Spurs end up with a PG on him.


That's not really true...Paul can be defended with one man, Harris, Terry and Stack require 3 men to defend them. If Paul was playing 1 on 3 against Terry, Stack and Harris would you expect him to beat them? A similar principle applies here. Paul and two random bench players for the Hornets are better than Harris, Terry and Stack. WTF? You don't think the Mavs would trade their entire roster outside of Dirk for Paul? Hell they might even throw in Dirk . . .


Ime Udoka was revealed early on this season to be the Bonzi solution...am I the only one that remembers this?
Udoka has had more failure than success this season in defending physical small forwards.


1-4 maybe...but not 1-9...and not at the guard spots.
Paul, Peterson, Pargo > Harris, Terry and Stack



That's not true...they had guys that had been defacto franchise players coming off their bench..the Mavs were deeper...especially with ball handlers. ROFL @ calling Stack and KVH defacto franchise players.



Like I said...West isn't near as fluid as Dirk is. He's not a big 2 guard like Dirk.
Dirk being a big two guard also made him guardable in some situations. West is more like a giant small forward with a power forward's body.



:lol Peja had some dominant playoff games...


Here's the deal with Peja...when his team is playing well? He'll play well...when his team is faltering? He will be leading the faltering...Peja never steps up when his team is going badly. You start beating the Hornets...you will beat Peja. Again, I hope you are right. But even back when he was in his prime, the Spurs could own his azz. He'd never look to score on the Spurs unless he was wide open. Now he takes and makes contested shots. Part of the difference is having Bibby as your PG and having CP3 as your PG.


Looks...you guys are sitting here saying no one can guard West...and then you keep trying to think of players that we can put on him. You are pointing out the problem with him but then you keep trying the same solution..when the answer is, he's the one you double.You double West, he passes it to Paul who then destroys the Spurs are they rotate back into position. I think the best idea on West is to run him off his jumper and hope Tim can meet him at the rim.

[timvp]

You know a better comparison for this Hornets team is the 2004 Spurs...with Paul and West being Parker and Duncan and with the Parker and Duncan positions of dominance being switched. I'm not saying these guys have the exact same moves or anything...but the way to beat them is similar.

If you remember...Phil Jackson doubled both Tim(after he got the ball) and Tony...but Tony proved to be the weak link due to inexperience....

So basically a similar philosphy that was used to beat the 2004 Spurs can be used to beat these Hornets.

David West is the 2004 Tony Parker of this Hornets team...you double him after he gets the ball and he will not be able to handle it. You double on him with a ball hawk like Manu or perhaps Parker and let them go for steals.

Chris Paul is the 2004 Tim Duncan...while Duncan was doubled pretty effectively, I would not even attempt it with Paul...leave him to Bruce and let Bruce wear him down.


That's how you beat this Hornets team...trust me, Peja is not going to lift his team up from a collapse...do not waste Bruce on him.The Hornets have Hedo on their team?

[Quasar]

For those who didn't watch the game like me and thought it was a total slaughter in the second half, here are some interesting figures:

Spurs were down 80-88 with 5:12 remaining on a Finley 3pt Shot, assist by Parker.

Even with 2:54 remaining, a Ginobili Driving Layup Shot still kept them within 10 pts... [SAS 82-92]. They were in a similar position against the Suns in game 1, except the Spurs totally folded in this game.

The Spurs went scoreless after this final basket by Manu... Parker turned the ball over twice after that on steals by Paul followed by Pargo. On the other end, Paul and West scored on a jump shot and a dunk, respectively. That's probably where the tide turned. Pop gave up after this by trotting out the "Giant Killer" line up with NOH winning at 97-82:

Bowen Foul:Shooting (4 PF) 1:47
Bowen Substitution replaced by Udoka 1:47
Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 1:47
Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1:47
Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 1:47
Finley Substitution replaced by Stoudamire 1:47

[blizz]

For those who didn't watch the game like me and thought it was a total slaughter in the second half, here are some interesting figures:

Spurs were down 80-88 with 5:12 remaining on a Finley 3pt Shot, assist by Parker.

Even with 2:54 remaining, a Ginobili Driving Layup Shot still kept them within 10 pts... [SAS 82-92]. They were in a similar position against the Suns in game 1, except the Spurs totally folded in this game.

The Spurs went scoreless after this final basket by Manu... Parker turned the ball over twice after that on steals by Paul followed by Pargo. On the other end, Paul and West scored on a jump shot and a dunk, respectively. THat's probably where the tide turned. Pop gave up after this by trotting out the Giant Killer line up:

Bowen Foul:Shooting (4 PF) 1:47
Bowen Substitution replaced by Udoka 1:47
Duncan Substitution replaced by Oberto 1:47
Parker Substitution replaced by Vaughn 1:47
Ginobili Substitution replaced by Barry 1:47
Finley Substitution replaced by Stoudamire 1:47

Great post. This is exactly what I was talking about...we were totally in it then the whells fell off. An adjustment or two and we hit some shots and we'll be fine. I'd be worried if I was a Hornets fan. We ALL know the Spurs get MAD after a game like this and come out swinging.

[Quasar]

The Hornets have Hedo on their team?

Hedo = Peja?

[timvp]

Hedo = Peja?You give modern-day Peja the looks Hedo got in that series and Peja will average 40.

[blizz]

Hedo is better right now IMO.

[blizz]

TIMVP...you have a good basketball mind...I'd love to sit at a bar with you getting toasted talking basketball.

[Capt Bringdown]

Overall, this was a very disappointing loss and the worst part is that some of the problems don’t seem to be easily correctable.

Ouch. There you have it.
Thinking about the game, and what we can do to improve, I'm kinda drawing a blank.

[polandprzem]

TIMVP...you have a good basketball mind...I'd love to sit at a bar with you getting me toasts in basketball shape.

figzed

[whottt]

You can switch a point guard off on Dirk. Hell, AJ used to be able to shut Dirk down. West has scored every time the Spurs end up with a PG on him.

Right...I agree that Dirk and West are not similar players at all.




Paul and two random bench players for the Hornets are better than Harris, Terry and Stack.

No..I don't think so. You can't put Bruce Bowen on Devin Harris, Stack and Terry at the same time...you can put him on Chris Paul at the same time.



WTF? You don't think the Mavs would trade their entire roster outside of Dirk for Paul? Hell they might even throw in Dirk . . .


You are talking about player value...totally different wavelength than I am on...

I am sure some teams would trade their entire rosters for Lebron...that doesn't mean LeBeon could beat that team by himself...one guy Vs multiple guys...never bet on the one guy in a fight.


Completely different wavelength...





Udoka has had more failure than success this season in defending physical small forwards.

He defended Bonzie well...on more than one occasion, I remember making note of it.





Paul, Peterson, Pargo > Harris, Terry and Stack

Take Paul out of the equation...are Peterson or Pargo better than any one of Terry, Harris or Stack? I'm sorry but they aren't.




ROFL @ calling Stack and KVH defacto franchise players.

I'm not...I'm calling Stack and Terry defacto franchise players....in Terry's case a shitty franchice :smokin

Dog Stack all you want, he's been the best player on a playoff team and division winner before...and he's been a Spur killer(except when he's taking the last shot).





Dirk being a big two guard also made him guardable in some situations.

Right...unfortunately none of those situations are one on one with a big(unless that big is flat out willing to plant him on his ass like Shaq and Zo were).




West is more like a giant small forward with a power forward's body.

I agree...he's more like Tim Duncan than he is Dirk.




Again, I hope you are right. But even back when he was in his prime, the Spurs could own his azz. He'd never look to score on the Spurs unless he was wide open. Now he takes and makes contested shots. Part of the difference is having Bibby as your PG and having CP3 as your PG.

He always made contested shots against everyone....except when his team was getting beaten..





You double West, he passes it to Paul

Who has Bowen on him....and what makes you think West is such a great passer anyway? Totally different animal being asked to make passes under intense doubling...




who then destroys the Spurs are they rotate back into position.

He didn't Destroy Bruce tonight...he destroyed everyone else. The concept is forcing West to miss a shot or turn it over...


The Hornets run the offense through West at times, that's when you double him.





I think the best idea on West is to run him off his jumper and hope Tim can meet him at the rim.

Tim Duncan's man on man defense is over-rated...always has been. I've never seen him as a shutdown defender against a great PF...it won't have the impact people think it will...doubling West and destroying his confidence will have an impact though.

David West was way too comfortable tonight.

[blizz]

figzed

lol that was hilarious...you made me go back to make sure i didn't say that.:lol:lol

[Capt Bringdown]

The Spurs looked like a team that are capable of beating the Suns and the Mavs...

Problem is, somebody moved the cheese, and it's about going thru the Hornets and Lakers this year.

[m33p0]

spurs failed to get duncan involved. they didn't do anything to beat the double team. they could have reposted duncan or swinging the ball to the weakside to catch the defense off-guard. the spurs looked flat and the passing was limp.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I just came back from a heavy drinking night and other activities

Just checked the boxscore (left home before game started).

Spurs will pwn noob NO Homeless

Sod off, troll wankers from the Suns, Mavs, Fakers and so on...

Spurs in 6

Adios. :hat:toast:drunk:smokin

Damn, short reply, took like a lot of time and edits to get it done.


:nutkick:

:lobt2: Gonna be ours, bitches!

[timvp]

I'm not...I'm calling Stack and Terry defacto franchise players....in Terry's case a shitty franchice :smokinJason Terry started every game for the Mavericks in the 2006 season. Try again.


Dog Stack all you want, he's been the best player on a playoff team and division winner before...and he's been a Spur killer(except when he's taking the last shot). Stackhouse is Antoine Walker if Antoine Walker was only good against the Spurs.


The Hornets run the offense through West at times, that's when you double him.
Doubling him I think has to be a last resort. Who are you going to leave? Peja? Mo Pete? Chandler? Yeah leave anyone and their shooting is too good. I'd rather West take contested shots than to let them get hot from beyond the arc.


Tim Duncan's man on man defense is over-rated...always has been. I've never seen him as a shutdown defender against a great PF...it won't have the impact people think it will...doubling West and destroying his confidence will have an impact though.Read what I said again. I'm not saying use Duncan on West ... I'm saying use Duncan as a help defender at the rim. Run West off his shot and then hope Duncan can bother his shots near the basket. However, the problem with that logic is that West has a good midrange game so he'd likely just pull up from five feet away before Duncan can come over.

Regarding West, I think he's good but he's not great. The problem is the Spurs don't have anyone to guard him. The Mavs had their best success when they put Devean George on him. The Spurs don't have that Long Three to put on him.

For example, if the Hornets beat the Spurs and then face the Lakers, West won't be nearly as dangerous because they can put Odom on him. West is damn good but he's made into a great player against the Spurs because they don't have the personnel.

The Spurs have to figure out a way to overcome that.

[whottt]

Jason Terry started every game for the Mavericks in the 2006 season. Try again.

Try again what? He's not quite a superstar but he's capable smoking most Spurs defenders asses one on one. And he was a defacto franchise player for the Hawks...and you want to keep mentioning 2006 and the role he played then, neglecting to mention that Terry has given us just as much trouble, if not more, since becoming a bench player for the Mavs.





Stackhouse is Antoine Walker if Antoine Walker was only good against the Spurs.

I'd take Stackhouse over Antonie Walker 100 times out a 100.




Doubling him I think has to be a last resort. Who are you going to leave? Peja? Mo Pete? Chandler? Yeah leave anyone and their shooting is too good. I'd rather West take contested shots than to let them get hot from beyond the arc.

You double after he's got the ball and he's making his move...not before.

And you double off of Peja or Mo Pete with Parker or Manu...you double with the small.




Read what I said again. I'm not saying use Duncan on West ... I'm saying use Duncan as a help defender at the rim. Run West off his shot and then hope Duncan can bother his shots near the basket. However, the problem with that logic is that West has a good midrange game so he'd likely just pull up from five feet away before Duncan can come over.

Regarding West, I think he's good but he's not great. The problem is the Spurs don't have anyone to guard him. The Mavs had their best success when they put Devean George on him. The Spurs don't have that Long Three to put on him.

He's not that fast...he's got some nice moves that allow him to make some of our guys look foolish...but it's not like when they try to guard Dirk and it's an automatic foul.




For example, if the Hornets beat the Spurs and then face the Lakers, West won't be nearly as dangerous because they can put Odom on him. West is damn good but he's made into a great player against the Spurs because they don't have the personnel.

The Spurs have to figure out a way to overcome that.


Should the Spurs lose and the Hornets wind up meeting the Lakers...I gurantee you that if West has games like he had tonight against Phil, Phil will double him off of Peja or Mo Pete.

[timvp]

That's not true...they had guys that had been defacto franchise players coming off their bench..the Mavs were deeper...especially with ball handlers.

ROFL @ calling Stack and KVH defacto franchise players.

I'm not...I'm calling Stack and Terry defacto franchise players

Jason Terry started every game for the Mavericks in the 2006 season. Try again.

Try again what?


:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

[Kori Ellis]

Okay, I hate to break up the little Whottt vs timvp love affair. But I want to go to bed... so shutup til tomorrow. Thanks :)

[timaios]

Somebody please explain to me the math behind Pop taking Manu out after 1 minute of play following a 20 minute rest period??? FUcked with Manu's rythm much??

Pop :bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

[Johnnysee]

Flawed logic there timvp. ALL superstars MUST experience what losing in the playoffs feels like at least once. Jordan,Kobe,Duncan,etc etc. Chris Paul isnt avoiding this either. He will suffer elimination in the playoffs this year.

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

You seriously just said that? Please stop yapping. Fucking idiot.

[Johnnysee]

Win or lose this is it for the Spurs championship success. It all goes downhill for them after this season. So they need to turn this around because this is the final chapter of their championship era.

[whottt]

:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

The point is...Terry's a bench player now, he was a bench player for part of the era where the Mavs had our number..so that means, he's a bench player. Just like Stack...and Harris(was at one point)...

It wasn't like he was particularly better in 06...so he's a bench player...but an effective one nontheless.

You act like the Mavs only gave us trouble in 06....they gave us trouble in 06, all of last season, and this season(up until the Kidd trade) long after Terry had become a bench player. If anything Terry has given us more troublle since moving to the bench.


Point is...
while none of them are Chris freaking Paul...at the same, time, Chris Paul can't iso 3 men...whereas they could. Chris Paul can be defended with Bruce Bowen at one time..whereas those 3 coluldn't.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Pop :bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

Pop coulda coached a better game, but I think they'll figure out what went wrong before Monday.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The Hornets were the team I feared most heading into the playoffs and all my worst fears, and then some, played out...

I thought Pop got thoroughly outcoached by Byron Scott. Pop’s plan going into the game was obviously for Duncan to get a lot of looks in the low block. Scott was a step ahead of Pop and instructed his squad to double-team Duncan while also being physical with him in the low block. With the Spurs’ first option on offense bottled up, the team didn’t know what to do offensively.

Defensively, Pop didn’t do anything special to slow West. It was like Pop was just hoping the regular season success West had against the Spurs was a fluke. For the third time, West proved he can light up the Spurs – especially if no extra attention is paid to him.

In Game 2, what I want to see is a return to the basics. Put Parker on Paul and tell Parker to harass him as much as possible. Put Bowen on Stojakovic and take Stojakovic out of the game. Give West different looks. Start Thomas on him but also don’t be afraid to put players such as Duncan or Udoka on him. Sending a double-team to West could also help West get out of rhythm. Right now, West is giving the Spurs Dirk Nowitzki type problems. It’s time to recognize he’s a star player and start mixing it up on him.

It’s tough to figure out if it’s time for Pop to fully panic or stick with his guns. In 2006, he went into full panic mode and threw away all his principals. Game 1 was a bad performance but do the Spurs need to change? Looking at it in optimistic light, Duncan will never play this bad again, the Spurs will shoot better from the line (12-for-21 for 57.1%), the Spurs will rebound better and the Hornets can’t plan to keep hitting tough shots. But then again, this is the third time the Hornets have blown out the Spurs this season and all three losses were strikingly similar.

The bottomline is the Spurs lost a road game and they have plenty of time to get back into this series. In fact, one win on Monday and the Spurs get control of the series. It’s not time to panic but it is time to recognize that the Hornets are a true championship contender. They are a well coached team that plays tough and smart. The Hornets actually remind me of a younger version of San Antonio. The Spurs are going to have to play very well to survive this series.

Totally. :tu

I had the same thoughts about the Hornets being the most dangerous team we'll face (they are by far the worst in terms of matchups, and Paul/West is currently as hot as you get).

I also totally agree that it's time to throw doubles at West from all angles to put him off kilter. The game we beat them late in the season we got West off-balance early and they never recovered.

Better come out with something clever next game, because these guys will be a very tough beat from 0-2.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Look can West put the ball on the floor and drive around Duncan? ....every time? YES
Can West hit a jump shot over Duncan? YES
Can West hit three pointers and pull Duncan too far away from the lane to sag? DOESN'T NEED TO.

And if Duncan isn't in the lane do the Hornets have enough dribble penetrators like Harris and Stack? PAUL/PEJA/BONZI WILL DO.

Duncan can guard West. WE SHALL SEE. WEST IS MUCH QUICKER THAN TIM

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I hope the Spurs guards set up Duncan and create shots for him.

[Allanon]

Three keys that the Hornets are using very well

1) Stop Tim Duncan at all costs and let the other starters beat them. The Hornets aren't even worried about the Spurs bench. It really messes up the offensive flow of the Spurs because Tim hurries his shots and hurries his kick outside.

2) Jannero Pargo. Inserting Jannero Pargo with Manu means that Manu (with his lingering groin issues) has to keep up with the lightning quick Pargo. Manu's legs gave out on him and he couldn't make his shots. His forrays into the paint also were ineffective because he couldn't get any lift. If you watch Pargo, he just runs around the court making Manu chase him around.

3) Bonzi Wells. Bonzi pretty much just stood there and laughed at Finley guarding him. Finley has no chance against Bonzi.

The Hornets have a two player bench but they're very effecitve. Speed is killing the Spurs, all these Hornets are quick footed for their position.

[GrandeDavid]

I liked the lashing of Tim Duncan's performance. He really did suck.

[nikegirl]

I hope the Spurs guards set up Duncan and create shots for him.

I agree with you. They better get him more involved and make better passes. They sometimes tend to move away from him and completely exclude him from plays which really ruins his rhythm. Well, he actually didnt have any today but then again you know what I mean. Also, Manu and Parker shouldn't stop being aggressive and I think they should've attacked the rim more than they have taken jumpshots.

I think we should also try Ime on Chris Paul to alternate with Bowen.

But most importantly, I think the Spurs really need to work on their offensive plays because this is the only year I've seen them struggle on offense for long periods.

[cly2tw]

The Hornets have a two player bench but they're very effecitve. Speed is killing the Spurs, all these Hornets are quick footed for their position.

It's right. Yet, at the same time, Spurs scored in early offense when there was spacing confusion by the Hornets for some reason. In set half court, Spurs could hardly score. That's really a dilemma.

[Deuces88]

You know, when you come down to hit, Spurs lost because a really bad offensive game and bad adjustments.

If the following happened Spurs would have won by double digits:

-Duncan gets his confidence level up early. Although the double-teams did work at first, he did get some good looks, but they just wouldn't drop. His confidence level was low the whole game and you can tell at his body language at the FT line.

-Rotate Horry and Thomas off of Bonzi and West. It's pretty damn obvious that Finley cannot guard either of them, so stop trying to put him on them. Everytime West got the ball and Thomas guarded him, West had to give it up. Horry is quick on his feet as well and he has those long ball-stealing arms. I want to see Horry and Thomas get a little bit more time. Even Udoka should get a shot at guarding at least Bonzi. Udoka and Bonzi are about the same size.

-Penetrate MORE! Yes, it's great that Bowen made those 3's early on but you don't need to keep dishing it to him at the arc every chance you get. Have Parker and Ginobili penetrate as much as possible. When Parker got Paul in foul trouble I was happy as hell because I thought Popovich would keep sending Parker straight as Paul, but he didn't.

-Stop giving up rebounds. I was so disgusted with the first 3 minutes of the ball game. Hornets missed like crazy but they got so many offensive boards. Buckle down and get those rebounds. No second chance shots!

[ManuTastic]

Tim did suck. Big time. Get your head out, Tim. Please.

Tony was much better than you give him credit for, TimVP. He looked like the only guy out there who could play in this game (except Bowen and Finley).

The 20-min timeout was really bad for Manu; it threw him off his rhythm entirely. Sucks, but a streaky shooter like Manu is very vulnerable to shit like this.

Next game, we have to try Duncan on West. The last game of the season, Tim did a great job against a similar type player: Boozer. Let him try it again. Anyone who thinks West is just going to start missing 12-footers because we want him to (Pop, this is for you) is nuts.

And I agree: more Barry, LOTS more Udoka, and less Horry.

And no more hack-a-Tyson, m'kay? It was a great move against Shaq, but against Tyson it just makes us look desperate.

PS. At halftime, least someone explained to the fans there that booing the opponent for no reason is the sign of being a classless fucktard. I could not believe that shit.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Udoka should be able to slow down Bonzi and keep him off the boards, and occasionally throwing Ime at West or using him for doubling makes sense. Why he didn't play today I'll never understand.

JV should chase Pargo around.

And we have to attack their bench bigs - Ely and Armstrong are garbage.

[pku47]

Why Spurs heck a Chandler???

[JamStone]

Couple things I saw last night...

I think Bruce Bowen shooting the ball so well in the first half actually hurt the Spurs in retrospect. When Tim is double-teamed and the defense collapse inside, it's the right play to kick it out to open shooters, but Bruce shooting so many shots is probably what the Hornets wanted. I'm sure they didn't anticipate him to shoot lights out. But, it took the ball out of Duncan's hands in that first half. And, the chances of Bruce maintaining that shooting throughout the game and in the second half were slim. What it did was never allow Tim to get into rhythm offensively.

David West is a lot better than I ever thought. I don't know if he was particularly exceptional last night, but his midrange game is crazy good. He also has a pretty decent handle for his size on his dribble drives. He had a behind the back dribble in traffic that got me saying wow. And, that somewhat running half hook also shocked me. Spurs don't really have a guy to match up with him. I agree with Kenny last night that the Spurs may have to put Duncan on him more.

Chris Paul cannot check Tony Parker. Tony has to try to get him in foul trouble. Paul didn't shoot the ball well, but getting him in foul trouble will definitely impact the game.

Pop used that hack-a-Chandler last night and it really surprised me. Now I haven't followed the Spurs as closely as you guys but this is the most I've seen Pop micro-manage playoff games ever. When the Spurs are up and the other team scores just two baskets in a row in the second half, it seems like he calls a timeout. I'm sorry if this is cynical for you Spurs fans, but even despite beating the Suns in 5 with what appeared to be relative ease, it almost seems that Pop is micro-managing every possession of every quarter of every game to take as many advantages as possible almost because he thinks the Spurs really need it this year. Seems like he's not that confident about the Spurs being able to win without that micro-managing and without exploiting every single resource and advantage. Maybe it's just that I hate the hack-a-Shaq stuff so much and I could be wrong, but that's almost what it feels like when I saw him do it to Chandler last night.

[SpurYank]

Hmm, I've seen this same game a few dozen times before, against Denver, Phoenix, Dallas. Seattle (even), Los Angeles as well. I sat at mid-court in Salt Lake City a year ago and saw a worse thrashing by the Jazz. Now that was intimidating as all hell. A bit more composure by Timmy, fewer shots falling here and there, and this s a different game and all of you would be praising the hell out of our Spurs.

Hold your criticisms until the Hornets beat us at home. My guess is that we'll lose on Monday, too, and then it will continue back and forth until the seventh game. And that's when the cream rises to the top.

Talk about whining. Must be be prevalent with everyone associated with the Spurs.

[JamStone]

Thing is Hornets don't have to beat the Spurs at home. The Hornets are the team with four home games in this series.

[DarrinS]

Couple things I saw last night...

I think Bruce Bowen shooting the ball so well in the first half actually hurt the Spurs in retrospect. When Tim is double-teamed and the defense collapse inside, it's the right play to kick it out to open shooters, but Bruce shooting so many shots is probably what the Hornets wanted. I'm sure they didn't anticipate him to shoot lights out. But, it took the ball out of Duncan's hands in that first half. And, the chances of Bruce maintaining that shooting throughout the game and in the second half were slim. What it did was never allow Tim to get into rhythm offensively.

David West is a lot better than I ever thought. I don't know if he was particularly exceptional last night, but his midrange game is crazy good. He also has a pretty decent handle for his size on his dribble drives. He had a behind the back dribble in traffic that got me saying wow. And, that somewhat running half hook also shocked me. Spurs don't really have a guy to match up with him. I agree with Kenny last night that the Spurs may have to put Duncan on him more.

Chris Paul cannot check Tony Parker. Tony has to try to get him in foul trouble. Paul didn't shoot the ball well, but getting him in foul trouble will definitely impact the game.

Pop used that hack-a-Chandler last night and it really surprised me. Now I haven't followed the Spurs as closely as you guys but this is the most I've seen Pop micro-manage playoff games ever. When the Spurs are up and the other team scores just two baskets in a row in the second half, it seems like he calls a timeout. I'm sorry if this is cynical for you Spurs fans, but even despite beating the Suns in 5 with what appeared to be relative ease, it almost seems that Pop is micro-managing every possession of every quarter of every game to take as many advantages as possible almost because he thinks the Spurs really need it this year. Seems like he's not that confident about the Spurs being able to win without that micro-managing and without exploiting every single resource and advantage. Maybe it's just that I hate the hack-a-Shaq stuff so much and I could be wrong, but that's almost what it feels like when I saw him do it to Chandler last night.



I pretty much agree with all of that.


What's killing us (besides Tim not showing up) is not having the right guy to defend West. West will torch our centers and is too big and mobile for Bruce. We could put Tim on him, but I'd bet that West would welcome that matchup.


We don't match up well with this team.

Someone compared it to the 2006 Mavs. I think they're more like the 2006 Kings.

[DarrinS]

Or, it could be that we're witnessing the emergence of a really great team.

[TampaDude]

Simply put, the Spurs played like shit and got blown out. No surprise there. Told y'all it was coming.

If they actually show up for the full 48 minutes, they can beat this Hornets team.

The only question is, will they?

We will all see on Monday night.

GO SPURS GO!!!

[DarrinS]

Simply put, the Spurs played like shit and got blown out. No surprise there. Told y'all it was coming.

If they actually show up for the full 48 minutes, they can beat this Hornets team.

The only question is, will they?

We will all see on Monday night.

GO SPURS GO!!!



If we can beat Nash-Stoudemire and we've beaten Williams-Boozer, surely we can beat CP3-West.

Gotta get that win on Monday night. Got to.

[1Parker1]

Pop was thouroughly outcoached last night and he treated the game as if it were a regular season matchup with absolutely no in game adjustments;

--Hack-A-Tyson??? Was that really neccesary with the Spurs up 7 and the Hornets missing shots as it was?

--Double teaming Duncan? How about putting Brent Barry on the floor a little early along with Finley, Ginobili and Parker in the 3rd quarter when the Spurs couldn't buy a shot?

I actually think the Spurs best strategy against these Hornets may be similiar to what they did against the Suns in 2005. Let West get his as they did with Amare, force Paul to become more of a scorer, less of a distributor, and concentrate on shutting everyone else down (Peja, Bonzi, Pargo, etc).

Oh and a big :flipoff to Tim Duncan last night who let Melvin Frickin Ely own him in the paint and outhustle him for offensive rebounds. :pctoss The constant whining by him, Parker, and Ginobili has got to stop.

[1Parker1]

Oh and maybe this doesn't belong here, but Bruce Bowen has got to be careful against Chris Paul...dude is a slick actor. That fake "bump" in the 3rd quarter had me so pissed. He also trash talked with Bowen later in the game and when the ref turned to him, he acted all defensive as if he wasn't the one that initiated that shit.

[florige]

I'm really not sure which one was worse last night. Us getting the living crap beat us of us in the second half by the Hornets. Having to listen to my asshole co-worker who happens to be a Chris Paul fan everytime Paul or anyone else for that matter dunked or got to the rim yell "get off of me". (It was really bad when Paul almost single handily juked the entire team late in the 4th) Or the fact this seems earily fimilar to 06. The only bright spot was we did control the 1st half. But Dallas also did in their first game against them. Hopefully this doesn't get as ugly as I think it can get. We looked lost last night.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

CP3 is a smart guy for such an inexperienced NBA player. He knows what works and what he can get away with. Im not saying i agree with it but most teams in the NBA have 1 or 2 players that are like that and are crafty.

Spurs should bounce back but if they dont then this one will be over. If the Hornets are up 2-0 rolling into SA then i am pretty sure their confidence will allow them to steal 1 of 2 in SA.

[ATXSPUR]

We'll be fine. If we get our shit together and play Spurs basketball monday we'll win. But we can't afford to fuck around and lose this one.

The fact that tim duncan was garbage last night is exactly why i'm not worried. Now if he had played Duncan ball and we still lost...then I would be afraid.

[2centsworth]

Hornets look like a better team to me and there's no shame in losing to a better team. However, the effort has got to be there and Tim for as great as he was in game 1 against phoenix was equally as bad last night. Can a true superstar do that?

Tony, Fin and Bruce(of 1st half) were the only ones that showed up. IMO Tony's turnovers happened late when the game was out of hand. Manu played with half a brain. Tim was as TIMVP described, a spoiled brat and left his team to dry.

NO is a horrible matchup for the Spurs and we will need a miracle for the spurs to pull this one out. Again, no shame in losing to the better team.

[ATXSPUR]

Hornets look like a better team to me and there's no shame in losing to a better team. However, the effort has got to be there and Tim for as great as he was in game 1 against phoenix was equally as bad last night. Can a true superstar do that?

Tony, Fin and Bruce in the 1st half were the only ones that showed up. IMO Tony's turnovers happened late when the game was out of hand. Manu played with half a brain. Tim was as TIMVP described, a spoiled brat and left his team to dry.

NO is a horrible matchup for the Spurs and we will need a miracle for the spurs to pull this one out. Again, no shame in losing to the better team. oh my God are you serious? It's one game. Calm down.

This fan base has the backbone and fight of Dirk Nowitzki sometimes. One loss and they are ready to wave the little white flag and jump off a cliff.

[polandprzem]

Why Spurs heck a Chandler???

TRhey wanted the ball at the last posesion of the quarter

[florige]

Hornets look like a better team to me and there's no shame in losing to a better team. However, the effort has got to be there and Tim for as great as he was in game 1 against phoenix was equally as bad last night. Can a true superstar do that?

Tony, Fin and Bruce in the 1st half were the only ones that showed up. IMO Tony's turnovers happened late when the game was out of hand. Manu played with half a brain. Tim was as TIMVP described, a spoiled brat and left his team to dry.

NO is a horrible matchup for the Spurs and we will need a miracle for the spurs to pull this one out. Again, no shame in losing to the better team.



We played them pretty well in the first half. For whatever reason we started getting jumper crazy when we are up. I can remember two separate occasions Manu just coming down the court and pulling up for 3 with no one under the rim. If I'm not mistaken those led to immediate points for NO's. They sort of remind me of Phx, but with a half court game. I don't know, but we have got to slow down their role players. I agree with what another poster said, let Paul and West get there ala Nash and Amare. We always managed to shut down Marion and whoever else they had at the time. But we can ill afford to have Bonzi, Peja, and on top of Paul and West scoring in double digits. Look, we cannot match up with Amare at all, I think that Nash and Paul are about cancel each other out. They are just going about it different;y than Phx and throwing harder doubles at Tim than Phx did. We can beat this team. West is good but we just saw this in Amare who also has big games against us. Bottom line is we can't live with Duncan's performance last night.

[DarrinS]

If we get beat in this series, I won't mind, as long as the Spurs give it their all and go down fighting.


If the Hornets advance, I hope they go all the way.

[boutons_]

Pop's coaching and Spurs execution will be tested Monday night.

Do whatever it takes to avoid coming to SA 0-2.

Fucking Tim, was he drugged?

So fucking weird to be so 51-years old and useless for 37 minutes.

1st half showed we could have had that game easily. Fucking Duncan.
25 - 12 vs Suns,
then 5 - 3 vs Hornets.

He had to be sick or drugged.

[polandprzem]

Pop's coaching and Spurs execution will be tested Monday night.

Do whatever it takes to avoid coming to SA 0-2.

Fucking Tim, was he drugged?

So fucking weird to be so 51-years old and useless for 37 minutes.

1st half showed we could have had that game easily. Fucking Duncan.
25 - 12 vs Suns,
then 5 - 3 vs Hornets.

He had to be sick or drugged.

I say drugged

[JamStone]

Question for Spurs fan:

I know Bruce Bowen has the corner three pointer on lock and has for several years. But, how often do you expect Bruce to score 17 points in the first half of playoff games?

I read some Spurs fans saying that in the first half the Spurs were playing the Hornets well, but to me, allowing Bruce to be the one to beat them is what they probably wanted. Now, him making most of his shots probably wasn't part of the plan. But, it looks like the Spurs were relenting to what the Hornets wanted. Tim Duncan was out of the offense and they were making Bruce beat them.

I think saying the Spurs were fine in the first half is a little bit disguised by the fact Bruce had his shot going so well. And, I think Manu hit his first 4 three pointers as well.

Manu will make his shots. And, Bruce can hit an open three pointer. But, if you think about it, relying on 17 points from Bruce and Manu not missing at all from outside either, and the Spurs were only up 4 points at half. It's just a different way of looking at it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think all in all we are going to get brutally brutally exposed this series. Chris Paul is too good, so good that his game alone will surpass any inexperience factor the Hornets might have. Chris Paul is just too damn good. David West is becoming a matchup of nightmare proportions. Pop can fiddle with plans all night long but at the end of the day we still have noone who can guard him or slow him down.

[Que Gee]

Question for Spurs fan:

I know Bruce Bowen has the corner three pointer on lock and has for several years. But, how often do you expect Bruce to score 17 points in the first half of playoff games?

I read some Spurs fans saying that in the first half the Spurs were playing the Hornets well, but to me, allowing Bruce to be the one to beat them is what they probably wanted. Now, him making most of his shots probably wasn't part of the plan. But, it looks like the Spurs were relenting to what the Hornets wanted. Tim Duncan was out of the offense and they were making Bruce beat them.

I think saying the Spurs were fine in the first half is a little bit disguised by the fact Bruce had his shot going so well. And, I think Manu hit his first 4 three pointers as well.

Manu will make his shots. And, Bruce can hit an open three pointer. But, if you think about it, relying on 17 points from Bruce and Manu not missing at all from outside either, and the Spurs were only up 4 points at half. It's just a different way of looking at it.

Good point. I'm sure if they (Hornets) ended up losing with Bruce scoring 34pts or something they would have laughed it off and said "so be it." "That'll never happen again."

[1Parker1]

Question for Spurs fan:

I know Bruce Bowen has the corner three pointer on lock and has for several years. But, how often do you expect Bruce to score 17 points in the first half of playoff games?

I read some Spurs fans saying that in the first half the Spurs were playing the Hornets well, but to me, allowing Bruce to be the one to beat them is what they probably wanted. Now, him making most of his shots probably wasn't part of the plan. But, it looks like the Spurs were relenting to what the Hornets wanted. Tim Duncan was out of the offense and they were making Bruce beat them.

I think saying the Spurs were fine in the first half is a little bit disguised by the fact Bruce had his shot going so well. And, I think Manu hit his first 4 three pointers as well.

Manu will make his shots. And, Bruce can hit an open three pointer. But, if you think about it, relying on 17 points from Bruce and Manu not missing at all from outside either, and the Spurs were only up 4 points at half. It's just a different way of looking at it.


That's always been the Spurs game plan when teams decide to double Duncan. You surround him with great 3 point shooters who he kicks it out to and they are supposed to knock it down. Bowen and Ginobili got the same exact wide open 3 point looks in the second half that they did in the first half, they just didn't knock them down. If they had, we'd be talking about a different story.

If they had made their open shots, the Hornets would have been forced to make a decision, allow the 3 point barrage to continue or use single coverage on Duncan.

[wildbill2u]

NO game plan is pretty simple. Don't let Duncan beat them. Once that option is taken away, if possible, shut down the Spurs perimeter players from attacking the lane and make them beat you with 3s.

If I were them, I'd be happy with limiting Duncan to five shots, keeping Parker and Ginobilli within their averages and seeing if Finley and Bowen can beat you.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Give Udoka some run, either having him give West a different look or send him in when Bonzi goes in the game so we have someone to match up with him.

I think you've got to throw some different looks at West, with plan B being the old Amare defense we used to use. I.E., let him get his and focus on locking everyone else on the court down.

We can beat New Orleans with West scoring 30 a game. We can't beat them with him scoring 30, Peja 22, Paul 17, Bonzi 10, etc.

And where was the pick and roll? All we got was a heavy dose of 4down when Duncan was playing vintage Dwayne Schintzius low post offense. Pop needs to get out of his friggin' comfort zone.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Question for Spurs fan:

I know Bruce Bowen has the corner three pointer on lock and has for several years. But, how often do you expect Bruce to score 17 points in the first half of playoff games?

I read some Spurs fans saying that in the first half the Spurs were playing the Hornets well, but to me, allowing Bruce to be the one to beat them is what they probably wanted. Now, him making most of his shots probably wasn't part of the plan. But, it looks like the Spurs were relenting to what the Hornets wanted. Tim Duncan was out of the offense and they were making Bruce beat them.

I think saying the Spurs were fine in the first half is a little bit disguised by the fact Bruce had his shot going so well. And, I think Manu hit his first 4 three pointers as well.

Manu will make his shots. And, Bruce can hit an open three pointer. But, if you think about it, relying on 17 points from Bruce and Manu not missing at all from outside either, and the Spurs were only up 4 points at half. It's just a different way of looking at it.


Actually, in the game thread a couple of us were saying Pop needed to adjust on offense because we were only up 4 at half with the Spurs going 9-13 from three in the first half.

Unfortunately Pop has a bad habit in the playoffs of seeing something work for a small segment of time and thinking he doesn't need to adjust. Sometimes it takes him a game, but unfortunately most of the time it takes him getting his ass handed to him in a series and then figuring out over the off-season what he should have done differently.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Pop got thoroughly bukkaked by Byron. I agree with AHF, its like he was trying to stay in a comfort zone.

[1Parker1]

So does anyone have any ideas why Udoka didn't play last night? I can't remember, how was he against the Hornets in the regular season? Maybe that's why...?

[1Parker1]

Pop got thoroughly bukkaked by Byron. I agree with AHF, its like he was trying to stay in a comfort zone.

No, it was more like he was coaching a regular season game. He made almost NO adjustments after seeing how the Hornets were playing Duncan. He made no adjustments in the second half when the Spurs couldn't buy a basket. And his solution to David West going off in the 4th quarter, was to stick Oberto on him a little longer.

[SenorSpur]

Where have I seen this before? The Spurs played the Hornets well in the first half and then fall apart after halftime on their way to getting blow out. Oh that’s right, it happen twice in the regular season. Add one more to that total.

Unfortunately this movie has played all too many times this season. No one likes to see the Spurs lose, but provided the team plays hard and competes long enough to give themselves a chance to win, I can accept that. What I cannot accept is getting routinely outhustled, outworked and outcoached. I also don't understand how a championship team gets it's doors blown off. This was a pitiful second-half performance by a passive team that obviously didn't have the desire necessary to compete against its opponent.



The Hornets deserve a lot of credit for the win. David West (30 points and nine rebounds) was a monster, Chris Paul (17 points and 13 assists) was orchestrating the attack and Peja Stojakovic (22 points on 15 shots) was playing with exceptional confidence. Bonzi Wells (ten points) was his typical Spurs Killer self and Tyson Chandler (ten points and 15 rebounds) helped the Hornets outrebound the Spurs 50-34. In the second half, the Hornets just beat the Spurs down. That’s all there is to it.

I disagree and challenge anyone who thinks the Hornets are overrated. The fact that this is the 3rd significant "beat down" of the Spurs by the Hornets this season, should be reason enough for all of us and the Spurs players themselves to fully acknowledge and respect them. They didn't win the Southwest Divison by accident. They are a really, really good team - and a dangerous one, I might add.


The Spurs have a lot to fix before Game 2. Number one of the list is to figure out how to defend West. This is the third time West has dismantled the Spurs. The Spurs need to figure out who can slow him down or at least find a strategy that won’t allow him to put up Tim Duncan numbers. The Spurs also can’t let Stojakovic go off, especially if West is also going off. Somebody on the Hornets has to be slowed.

West has killed the Spurs in practically every game they've played. The Spurs have yet to solve the matchup problem that he brings. They don't seem to have anyone on the roster capable of slowing him down. Paul garners so much attention, however I wonder if Pop would consider running another defender at West?


Overall, this was a very disappointing loss and the worst part is that some of the problems don’t seem to be easily correctable. The game had a very 2006 Mavericks feel to it. The Hornets were the team I feared most heading into the playoffs and all my worst fears, and then some, played out.

I thought the very same thing heading into this game. After all, it's an even-numbered season and the Spurs have historically "tripped" all over themselves in the conference semi-final round during those years. Recall there was only one blowout loss during that 2006 Spurs/Mavs series and it was the Spurs who got blown out in Game 2 on their homecourt! Frankly, I fear the Hornets more than the Fakers.



-Tim Duncan played the worst basketball game of his life. And that isn’t a hyperbole. Tim Duncan played the worst basketball game of his life. The Hornets were sending hard double-teams at him and that got him out of his rhythm. But even worse than that were his three rebounds in 37 minutes. Considering the Spurs got murdered on the board and considering he was on Chandler defensively, that is a shockingly low number. Three rebounds in 37 minutes on the road in an important playoff game? That’s just embarrassing. Offensively, he was 1-for-9 from the floor. Most of those misses were due to soft and weak attempts. Instead of playing basketball, Duncan spent the night whining. It would have been nice if Duncan stopped acting like a spoiled brat long enough to help the team out. The words just don’t exist that can explain how pitiful Duncan was tonight. He should be ashamed not only with how he played but how he hung the rest of the team out to dry. Struggle on offense? That’s fine. But at least try to help out by grabbing boards or at least give an effort that wasn’t a total embarrassment. Duncan needs to wipe away the tears, leave his ref complaining in the hotel room and come out in Game 2 ready to play.

Where have I heard this before? And why is there even a repeat of this tired storyline? This IS the playoffs - not a run-of-the-mill regular season game. You wouldn't think Pop, or anyone else for that matter, would have to remind Tim to get his head out of his fifth hole and just play the game. Whenever Tim whines, it seems to take away his concentration and adversely affect his play more than any defender seems to be able to. Not to mention, it totally takes him out of the play as the opposition races upcourt to try and score quickly. Tim is THE team leader and needs to set a tone for the team by his attitude and focus - regardless of how he's playing. He should personally apologize to his team for his poor play and immature actions. Make a commitment to stop whining and just play!


-Manu Ginobili’s stats look good. He had 19 points, seven assists and six rebounds, while hitting 7-of-14 shots from the field. However, his play in the third quarter left a lot to be desired. He had a couple of bad turnovers that led to easy transition bucks for the Hornets. He had another couple of bad decisions that came back to bite the Spurs. Ginobili also was a bit too three-point happy. He was 3-for-9 on three-pointers and 4-for-5 on two-pointers.

Couldn't figure out why he continuously kept launching up 3-pt shots. One of the worst was his errant 3-pt miss with 23 secs left in the 2nd quarter. He took this ill-advised shot, when clearly he should've played for the last shot of the half. Of course, this led to a Chris Paul driving layup to end the half.


-Playing smarter will be number one on the agenda for Ginobili in Game 2. (Oh and for the love of the basketball gods, stop forcing passes to Robert Horry. Whenever he’s on the court with Horry, Ginobili tries to make bullet passes to Horry as if Horry is going to do anything when he gets the ball. The passes to Horry either get stolen or sail out of bounds.)

I've been saying this ever since that horrific, foul on Dirk in the 2006 WCSF. I love Manu's fearless aggression, his passion and heart. His play can usually range from utterly brilliant to downright bone-headed. No one else on this team takes me on the emotional rollercoaster rides that Manu does. As one of the great players on this team, he really needs to read the flow of the game better. If his shot is off, he's a great enough player that he should find other ways to affect the game. Either via attacking the basket, setting up teammates, and playing defense. I really hope he plays smarter and stop forcing bad plays and taking bad shots.

Someone asked the question in another thread as to whether Game #2 is a must game for the Spurs? I'd say yes. As defending champions, the Spurs need to establish a tone for this series. They need to throw a wrench into the psyche and confidence of the Hornets. No better way to do that by stealing one on their home court. Don't want to go back home down 0-2.

[ATXSPUR]

I think all in all we are going to get brutally brutally exposed this series. Chris Paul is too good, so good that his game alone will surpass any inexperience factor the Hornets might have. Chris Paul is just too damn good. David West is becoming a matchup of nightmare proportions. Pop can fiddle with plans all night long but at the end of the day we still have noone who can guard him or slow him down. That attitude doesn't reflect the attitude someone with Vince Young in their avatar should have!!



:flag:

[jackseven]

First note is I have to mention Jaque Vaughn had a turnover. If this is from a bad dream let me know, but I remember him thinking he was going to be Tony Parker when he drove into 3 Hornets defenders on a fast break and picked the ball up and then got stuck despite his massive hang time and threw the ball away. That play was the one that made me the most mad.

For me the loss falls 100% on Duncan. He's got to at least put up 12-15 points and 8 rebounds for the Spurs to have a chance. I don't care if the Hornets came at him with triple teams, he has to still play like a superstar of some sort. I hope Pop or if Pop is too afraid (I have a tough time believing Pop will actually yell at Tim Duncan) then Sean Elliott has the courage to call him out and tell him to make his move when he catches the ball. A lot of times he has single coverage and just waits until a double team comes. He's so much better when he's decisive and aggressive, but I think Duncan would prefer not to be and let Manu and Tony do the work while he draws the double teams.

Another bad result from Duncan's play is if he doesn't serve as the Spurs nucleus, but just another player, Manu and Tony try to take it upon themselves and I don't think that will work in this series. The Hornets are too good of a defensive team to be beaten by one guy.

The game started off horribly from an intensity standpoint. The Spurs came out looking so overconfident it looked like they thought they would just use the logos on their jerseys to win the game for them. They then promptly spotted the Hornets 8 points. They did come back and end up with a four point lead at half time, but that had more to do with Manu (and Finley to a lesser extent) catching on mini fire than them playing well. Whenever someone is just turning and swishing threes with 20 seconds in the shot clock, those are bonus points, not points coming out of your system.

On that note, I do have to give credit to Bruce Bowen for knocking down his threes - which in constrast derived from the Spurs offense.

One last thing. I can't stand when Oberto is one foot away from the basket and tosses up a shot that doesn't hit the rim because he's so afraid of getting rejected. I wish he would just lay the ball up as if he were by himself. It's not like he doesn't get thrown on a regular basis so he doesn't really have the pride factor and if he shoots it like he's afraid of getting blocked it's usually equal to a turnover anyways.

I don't blame the Hornets pyrotechnics team for this loss, because the Spurs were going to lose anyway the way Duncan was playing, but get real. That kind of stuff can't happen in a NBA playoff game. And if it does, get moving. It was rediculous to watch the one guy trying to briskly walk dignified in a $139 suit while just spreading around the fire extinguishing powder. There should have been 30 people on their hands and knees with towels and water getting that powder off the floor.

[itzsoweezee]

no one the spurs can guard west. no one. the spurs have got to keep the ball out of his hands. work hard to deny west and don't let stojakovic go off. i don't think paul as a scorer can beat the spurs.

[VoiceofReason]

That kind of stuff can't happen in a NBA playoff game. And if it does, get moving. It was rediculous to watch the one guy trying to briskly walk dignified in a $139 suit while just spreading around the fire extinguishing powder. There should have been 30 people on their hands and knees with towels and water getting that powder off the floor.

Hey, I'm a huge Hornets fan and I agree. I was at the game and we all were amazed at the screwup. Didn't affect the outcome, however. And I'm thinking the suit was a $99 special.

[NIH]

Hi VOR. :bking








Nice to see this thread is w/o the retarded Katrina smack, I look foward to some good basketball talk. I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to the Hornets defense on Duncan. In that win in S.A they held him to single digits as they did last night. Chandler did a very good job on him last night. Another thing I find funny is some of you guys dismissing DWest's game as a fluke, he's one of the bst PFs in the league and has really stepped it up in the playoffs.

[VoiceofReason]

Yo, NIH. I'm trying to be classy. Impressive, huh?

[NIH]

Very.

[td4mvp21]

We are going to have to-dare I say it-play complete, full Spurs basketball games to beat the Hornets. The Spurs could get by with playing a game of halves with the Suns because the Suns are the Spurs' bitch. They can't do that with New Orleans.

[csaenz]

[I just posted this on the "don't panic" forum, but it bears repeating.]

Going fishing? Hell no. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm happy with that loss, but blowouts are the best types of losses in a series. You never want to lose a really close game. Look at the Suns last round. The most important game was the first, a ridiculously close heartbreaker for the Suns. The least important game was game four, where they stomped us. Sure, we were already up three, and a break was slightly expected. Right now, I'm thinking about last year, where we lost Game 1 of the first series -- at home, even -- to Denver. The Hornets have to win the first games at home just to stay in contention, so this blowout is fine. We may have gotten the same amount of rest days, but we came off a much more emotional series. None of the Hornets games against Dallas were very close.

That being said -- and remember who told you -- we'll win the next three games. Yes, the next three. We'll lose game 5 in NO, and finish it off in San Antonio. (When we lost to Denver, we won four in a row right after, and that was the same Denver team Stephen A(Hole) Smith picked to win it all this year. So, there you go.)

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I don't agree with the Mavs comparisons...the Mavs role players and bench were a hell of a lot tougher than the ones for the Hornets....Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris...these guys were a complete pain in the ass and the Hornets do not have anyone that compares to them.

These Hornets do not have all the great iso guys that the Mavs and, the Spurs do not have to defend them the same way.


On top of that...that Mavs team features almost no passing, this Hornets team is built on passing.



I hope the Spurs have more respect for the Hornets than you seem to think they have... if they don't then we've got problems.


Because Byron Scott is a good coach(as should be obvious to all Spurfans from his time with the Nets)...and Paul is a freaking once in a generation PG.


But David West? David West is not Tim Duncan...though he may have appeared to be him tonight. You take him out...and you leave Bruce on Paul.



I'm not particularly worried about Peja...he'll choke eventually, it's what he does.

I agree with you.

[jackseven]

Hi VOR. :bking








Nice to see this thread is w/o the retarded Katrina smack, I look foward to some good basketball talk. I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to the Hornets defense on Duncan. In that win in S.A they held him to single digits as they did last night. Chandler did a very good job on him last night. Another thing I find funny is some of you guys dismissing DWest's game as a fluke, he's one of the bst PFs in the league and has really stepped it up in the playoffs.

I think the Hornets played awesome, but even if Duncan is playing 85 bears he still has to get a lot more than 5 and 3. We're talking about a guy that's been compared with Jordan and called the greatest PF of all time so while the Hornets deserve credit for their awesome defense, it's obvious there was more to it than that. I think Duncan gets too many free passes from Spurs fans. David Robinson would have been annihilated if he did that. Moreover, can you imagine if Jordan, Barkley, Malone, or Kobe put up 5 and 3 in 37 minutes for game 1 of the Western Semis? People would be looting electronic stores.

I hadn't watched West but a few minutes this season so I didn't know why Charles Barkley kept going on and on about how the Spurs were going to stop him, but now I do. That guy is raw. He's mean, aggressive, strong, quick, and takes the principal's lunch money. He might have to be my new favorite player.

[VoiceofReason]

I think the Hornets played awesome, but even if Duncan is playing 85 bears he still has to get a lot more than 5 and 3. We're talking about a guy that's been compared with Jordan and called the greatest PF of all time so while the Hornets deserve credit for their awesome defense, it's obvious there was more to it than that. I think Duncan gets too many free passes from Spurs fans. David Robinson would have been annihilated if he did that. Moreover, can you imagine if Jordan, Barkley, Malone, or Kobe put up 5 and 3 in 37 minutes for game 1 of the Western Semis? People would be looting electronic stores.

I hadn't watched West but a few minutes this season so I didn't know why Charles Barkley kept going on and on about how the Spurs were going to stop him, but now I do. That guy is raw. He's mean, aggressive, strong, quick, and takes the principal's lunch money. He might have to be my new favorite player.

First, you're right about West. He's been sort of under a lot of people's radar this season. He's a serious player.

And you're right about Duncan. I was scared shitless of him going into last night's game, but he didn't show up. Part of it was the N.O. defensive approach. But he also wasn't on his game. Monday should answer a lot of questions about this series.

[Deimosfobos]

Hey, I'm a huge Hornets fan and I agree. I was at the game and we all were amazed at the screwup. Didn't affect the outcome, however. And I'm thinking the suit was a $99 special.

Spurs played terrible on the second half and Duncan played his worst game ever, thats the main reason we lost.

But be honest, we'll never know how much that 20min delay helped NO, as your own players admited. Spurs where on a roll, outscoring NO for like 15 since the 0-8 start. Manu was not missing a shoot...
Again, Spurs lost that game... but that hurt us a bit... for sure.

[itzsoweezee]

The difference between Dirk and West is that Duncan, given the opportunity, can actually guard West. And West doesn't have the shot to make the Spurs pay for doing that quite the way Dirk did.

you're wrong about west's shooting ability. he might not have the range that dirk has, but he's pretty much automatic from 20 feet in. he's a much harder matchup than dirk because he's more athletic than dirk and he can score inside.

[dingoANDtheBABY]

Hornets look like a better team to me and there's no shame in losing to a better team. However, the effort has got to be there and Tim for as great as he was in game 1 against phoenix was equally as bad last night. Can a true superstar do that?

Tony, Fin and Bruce(of 1st half) were the only ones that showed up. IMO Tony's turnovers happened late when the game was out of hand. Manu played with half a brain. Tim was as TIMVP described, a spoiled brat and left his team to dry.

NO is a horrible matchup for the Spurs and we will need a miracle for the spurs to pull this one out. Again, no shame in losing to the better team.

the spurs needed miracles in '99, '03 and on and on we know the end of all of those stories... this team is not better than the spurs and not smart enough to beat them. pop didn't pull out all of his weapons and likely won't until later in the series... why show NO all of our cards in game 1??

[VoiceofReason]

the spurs needed miracles in '99, '03 and on and on we know the end of all of those stories... this team is not better than the spurs and not smart enough to beat them. pop didn't pull out all of his weapons and likely won't until later in the series... why show NO all of our cards in game 1??

So he's waiting until it's 3-0?

[Ragin Cajun]

The Spurs are in deep trouble. I think their best chance is to have Duncan cover West. They don't have anyone else that can defend him. The Spurs have nobody that can defend CP3. Not Parker. Not Bowen. Not anybody. Of course every team in the league has that problem...

[Strike]

The Spurs are in deep trouble.

:lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Hi VOR. :bking








Nice to see this thread is w/o the retarded Katrina smack, I look foward to some good basketball talk. I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to the Hornets defense on Duncan. In that win in S.A they held him to single digits as they did last night. Chandler did a very good job on him last night. Another thing I find funny is some of you guys dismissing DWest's game as a fluke, he's one of the bst PFs in the league and has really stepped it up in the playoffs.

A couple of us last night were talking about how physical the Hornets were with Duncan early on -- especially Ely. Any Spurs fans dismissing the Hornets as simply a step to the title are sorely mistaken.

[florige]

The Spurs are in deep trouble. I think their best chance is to have Duncan cover West. They don't have anyone else that can defend him. The Spurs have nobody that can defend CP3. Not Parker. Not Bowen. Not anybody. Of course every team in the league has that problem...


Don't try and get cocky after one win. You guys beat us yes, but if you think that we are in deep trouble you are dreaming. And like alot of other posters has said, West and Paul are pretty much undefendable. But over the years As you should know we have alot of experience in playing teams with more unstoppable players than West and Paul and have come out on top. So you may want to hush on that deep trouble crap until after you guys go up 3-0.

[ballhog]

Spurs might be better off letting one guy (Paul) do all the work and shut down the others. He's gonna get his eventually, let him try to win all by himself. I mean, they did shut down Paul for most of the game. Just a thought. I think it would be better to put Bowen on West and see how that goes. At least that would be adjustment. Try anything at this point.

[florige]

Spurs might be better off letting one guy (Paul) do all the work and shut down the others. He's gonna get his eventually, let him try to win all by himself. I mean, they did shut down Paul for most of the game. Just a thought. I think it would be better to put Bowen on West and see how that goes. At least that would be adjustment. Try anything at this point.


Bowen is waaaay to small to cover West. If anything I maybe try Udoka on West and switch Bowen off of Peja and Paul.

[td4mvp21]

Just let West get his and focus on the rest of the team. Shut down the perimeter.

[florige]

Like I said, I tell Bowen to shut down Peja, and at the very least slow down Paul. Putting Bowen on West is pretty much wasting a defender.

[SpursFan0728]

The Spurs are in deep trouble. I think their best chance is to have Duncan cover West. They don't have anyone else that can defend him. The Spurs have nobody that can defend CP3. Not Parker. Not Bowen. Not anybody. Of course every team in the league has that problem...

CP3 had one of the worse playoff performance this year in game 1 vs. spurs

also, nobody in hornets can cover Manu and Parker so there you go :flag:

[jackseven]

Hornets look like a better team to me and there's no shame in losing to a better team. However, the effort has got to be there and Tim for as great as he was in game 1 against phoenix was equally as bad last night. Can a true superstar do that?

Tony, Fin and Bruce(of 1st half) were the only ones that showed up. IMO Tony's turnovers happened late when the game was out of hand. Manu played with half a brain. Tim was as TIMVP described, a spoiled brat and left his team to dry.

NO is a horrible matchup for the Spurs and we will need a miracle for the spurs to pull this one out. Again, no shame in losing to the better team.

It hadn't hit me yet, but this might be true. Everyone keeps trying to stretch the defense because the Spurs can't matchup with this guy or another guy but the reality might be the Spurs just can't matchup with the Hornets. It probably depends on how hurt Manu is on whether the Spurs can win this series. Whether they do advance or they don't, I hope it's painfully obvious to Pop that the Spurs have to get more athletic this offseason.

[raspsa]

I thought the Spurs looked a half-step too slow against the younger hornets, often getting beaten to loose balls a and in general being out-hustled. TD better wake up or this series is over. Spurs can't spot NO big leads because CP3 is a smart player and does a good job of protecting a lead. The bright spot is that Bowen, Finley, manu are doing a good job offensively.. the ret of the Spurs have to contribute as well.

[td4mvp21]

The Spurs did get outhustled yesterday. The effort just wasn't all there. And you need effort against the Hornets.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs did get outhustled yesterday. The effort just wasn't all there. And you need effort against the Hornets.

A fact that is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE for a defending NBA Championship team.

The Atlanta Hawks can get off with a performance of that sort and people will write it off to their youth. A veteran team, like the Spurs, has absolutely no excuse for poor effort.

[saxman]

I actually expected the Spurs to loose game 1. Now, I'm expecting the Spurs to win game 2. However, I'm more interested in how the Hornets play in game 2. If they win, I'm changing my prediction from Spurs in 7 to Hornets in 5.

[Slippy]

Pop's coaching and Spurs execution will be tested Monday night.

Do whatever it takes to avoid coming to SA 0-2.

Fucking Tim, was he drugged?

So fucking weird to be so 51-years old and useless for 37 minutes.

1st half showed we could have had that game easily. Fucking Duncan.
25 - 12 vs Suns,
then 5 - 3 vs Hornets.

He had to be sick or drugged.


Even going into the 4th down by 5 , i thought our chances of pulling a win were good. As others have pointed out the Spurs have proven they can come-back. They have shown familiarity and play-off experience does make a difference. The problem was, no one would of expected a shocker of a game from Tim on both ends for 4 full quarters. Normally he turns it around by the 4th. The good news is that it's safe to assume there will be no repeat performance like that again.

Not time to panic just yet. The Hornets may be the most difficult team to match-up against but this Spurs team as a whole are just as difficult. They will move on, adjust and bring it the next game.

[wildchild]

-Fabricio Oberto was on the court for 20 minutes and had one point and six rebounds. Defensively, he got lit up by West. West was just toying with Oberto out there. Oberto does deserve some credit for outrebounding Duncan and Thomas combined but the Spurs need more out of him. Passable defense on West would be huge. A few trash buckets around the rim would be very much appreciated. After watching Game 1, it became obvious that Thomas or Oberto will have to step up for the Spurs to win this series. Oberto has the championship experience and the chemistry with his teammates, so it’s time for him to come up big and prove he shines brightest when the pressure is on.
Believe.


One last thing. I can't stand when Oberto is one foot away from the basket and tosses up a shot that doesn't hit the rim because he's so afraid of getting rejected. I wish he would just lay the ball up as if he were by himself. It's not like he doesn't get thrown on a regular basis so he doesn't really have the pride factor and if he shoots it like he's afraid of getting blocked it's usually equal to a turnover anyways.
As I said before Oberto needs a confidence shot and now Pop doesn't trust in this guy. As can be expected he wasn't playing well at all in this series 'cause when he came off the bench against Hornets he always sucked. As starter this regular season he averaged 10,3 points and 5,6rebounds in 3 games, only game that the guy not in starting line up he finished with 0 points 3 rebounds.He's worthless in other way and he won't adjust to play in a new role this series.


Spurs played terrible on the second half and Duncan played his worst game ever, thats the main reason we lost


Robert Horry played 12 minutes and he didn’t have any answers for West either. Offensively, he was a liability on the court. I’m not sure that this is the series to be trying to dust off Horry. He’s just not in a good rhythm and isn’t helping much on either side of the court. I don’t mind him in small doses but as a part of the regular rotation, I just don’t think Horry is ready yet. In his 12 minutes, Horry had no points and two rebounds

I'm not argue with the Pop reason, but I don't sure why he put Robert on West in the 3rd quarter 7'. I agree with timvp about Rob.


But I don't worried. Tim played an unusual game, if he plays a good game, we'll win. There's no doubt about it.

BELIEVE!
I agree.:tu

[timvp]

Re-watching the game again, some things I noticed:

-Spurs actually did a good job against West -- for the most part. He just hit some tough azz shots. I'd start out with the same defensive scheme on him and see if he's still on fire.

-Transition defense was poor. That will be fixed. Pop will make sure of that.

-Spurs have to take and make threes. The Hornets are daring the Spurs to beat them from the outside. If it takes 40 three-point attempts, so be it. Other than Manu shooting contested step-back threes, every other look the Spurs got from deep were good looks.

-Duncan got good looks, even against double-teams. I'm not worried at all about him being able to bounce back.

-Chris Paul wasn't that good. He was good but not MVP good. Expect him to play much better.

-Rebounding and lack of hustle hurt the Spurs more than anything. That was a pitiful amount of heart for a playoff game. The Spurs deserved to lose the game. They have to come out with more fight and will to win.

[T Park]

Re-watching the game again, some things I noticed:

-Spurs actually did a good job against West -- for the most part. He just hit some tough azz shots. I'd start out with the same defensive scheme on him and see if he's still on fire.

-Transition defense was poor. That will be fixed. Pop will make sure of that.

-Spurs have to take and make threes. The Hornets are daring the Spurs to beat them from the outside. If it takes 40 three-point attempts, so be it. Other than Manu shooting contested step-back threes, every other look the Spurs got from deep were good looks.

-Duncan got good looks, even against double-teams. I'm not worried at all about him being able to bounce back.

-Chris Paul wasn't that good. He was good but not MVP good. Expect him to play much better.

-Rebounding and lack of hustle hurt the Spurs more than anything. That was a pitiful amount of heart for a playoff game. The Spurs deserved to lose the game. They have to come out with more fight and will to win.

I'm slightly encouraged by this.

Unfortunately I think West is damn good enough to hit tough ass shots.

The answer to slowing him or giving him trouble unfortunately, I think sits in Spain.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Re-watching the game again, some things I noticed:

-Spurs actually did a good job against West -- for the most part. He just hit some tough azz shots. I'd start out with the same defensive scheme on him and see if he's still on fire.

-Transition defense was poor. That will be fixed. Pop will make sure of that.

-Spurs have to take and make threes. The Hornets are daring the Spurs to beat them from the outside. If it takes 40 three-point attempts, so be it. Other than Manu shooting contested step-back threes, every other look the Spurs got from deep were good looks.

-Duncan got good looks, even against double-teams. I'm not worried at all about him being able to bounce back.

-Chris Paul wasn't that good. He was good but not MVP good. Expect him to play much better.

-Rebounding and lack of hustle hurt the Spurs more than anything. That was a pitiful amount of heart for a playoff game. The Spurs deserved to lose the game. They have to come out with more fight and will to win.


I agree with all of that. I just stated in another thread that Manu won't be shooting those threes early in the offense tonight....at least I'd bet against it.

West will be shown different looks defensively, and I'd expect to even see Udoka thrown out there a lot more.

Tim will have a good game tonight. I expect him to be a lot quicker with his decision making and for the Spurs to have people cutting and/or moving into position for easy shots and for TD to find these folks when the double team comes at him.

I think the Spurs will defend in transition a lot better and to have an overall better game.

I think San Antonio likely will have 4 wins of 5 points or less in this series and the Hornets to have two or three wins of 20 points +.

[PDXSpursFan]

Bowen is waaaay to small to cover West. If anything I maybe try Udoka on West and switch Bowen off of Peja and Paul.
So Bowen is small to cover West (6'9") and not to cover Nowitzki (7'0")???
Having said that, I don't think that Pop will change the game plan (yet): Bowen will split time guarding Paul and Peja.

[ForeignFan]

I'm slightly encouraged by this.

Unfortunately I think West is damn good enough to hit tough ass shots.

The answer to slowing him or giving him trouble unfortunately, I think sits in Spain.

Spain ? Don"t you mean Italy?

[whottt]

Re-watching the game again, some things I noticed:

-Spurs actually did a good job against West -- for the most part. He just hit some tough azz shots. I'd start out with the same defensive scheme on him and see if he's still on fire.

I agree...that's my take.


What needs to be determined is if West was merely hot...or if we got an emerging Spur killer on our hands...if he's a Spur killer...he needs to be doubled, and I don't want to wait for another loss to find out.


I'm not saying the Spurs need to double out of the gate in this game...or even gameplan to do it for the entire game...but if it's not #1A on their list options and adjustments to make in this series...then Pop sucks.




-Transition defense was poor. That will be fixed. Pop will make sure of that.

-Spurs have to take and make threes. The Hornets are daring the Spurs to beat them from the outside. If it takes 40 three-point attempts, so be it. Other than Manu shooting contested step-back threes, every other look the Spurs got from deep were good looks.

I think that's the fault of the big 3 IMO...they kind of get tunnel vision and forget about their teamates from time to time...I don't think it's selfishness though...I think it's getting on Pop's wavelength and getting stuck on it.






-Chris Paul wasn't that good. He was good but not MVP good. Expect him to play much better.


Bruce Bowen had a lot of do with it...Chris Paul had the look of Bowen induced misery, the Bruce Bad Day, on his face. Paul's performance was tribute to Bowen annoying the shit out of him, and that's one reason I prefer to leave Bruce on him. Bruce doesn't let players be glamourboys...he makes them go to work, and sometimes a players inner primadonna is the best friend Bowen and the Spurs have.


And the fact that he played poorly and we still got a butt kicking is the alarming thing to me. I was totally convinced that if you stop Paul you could stop the Hornets...and that simply wasn't the case, because of David West and his ability to carry the offense extremely well.






-Rebounding and lack of hustle hurt the Spurs more than anything. That was a pitiful amount of heart for a playoff game. The Spurs deserved to lose the game. They have to come out with more fight and will to win.

I think the Spurs were still feeling the effects of the Suns series...


Sometimes...when a team gets it's ass kicked physically, the effects of it are not felt until the next series.


Examples...I've always thought that the brutal series against the Spurs by the Lakers in 02 was the reason the Kings were able to take the Lakers to 7 games...the Spurs really made the Lakers work to win that series(as in having a double digit lead going into the fourth in every game and forcing the Lakers to come back) and dealt them a severe physical beating.


Conversely...I think the Kings series VS the Spurs in 06 played a big role in us losing to the Mavs...as the Kings kicked our ass in that series. Too much Bonzi and Artest.


I think the Spurs were still sunburnt in game 1...in particular Tim Duncan. I just don't think people really get what being matched up on Shaq does to a player in a playoff series like that, but Shaq damn sure does, he knows how to physically beat on a guy without making it obvious that's what he is doing...and everyone is acting like it's not the same now becuase Shaq is older...

I completely disagree with that, I think Shaq is 10 times more physical now than he used to be, he's(Shaq) a mean old dog now, not a happy go lucky pup...and I think Duncan was still feeling the effects of it.

[T Park]

Put Bowen on Peja, shut him down, you win the game.

He is the X Factor, hell I said that back at the end of February...

[Brutalis]

Put Bowen on Peja, shut him down, you win the game.

He is the X Factor, hell I said that back at the end of February...

I bet you 5 bucks he scores 17+ tonight. Deal?

Peja that is***

[T Park]

Spain ? Don"t you mean Italy?


No Splitter plays in spain....

[T Park]

I bet you 5 bucks he scores 17+ tonight. Deal?

Peja that is***

Wouldn't be shocked if he did.

He needs to get Bowened though.

[Tradition]

You'd think a Laker fan would have heard of Magic Johnson.

So you did/do watch basketball outside the Spurs/Pistons!! :wow:wow Im shocked.

[timvp]

So you did/do watch basketball outside the Spurs/Pistons!! :wow:wow Im shocked.There were many ways to save face. That was not one of the ways.

[Tradition]

There were many ways to save face. That was not one of the ways.

So the post below (which relates to my first post of this thread) is me trying to save face? You seem to act like a fan of basketball outside the Spurs/Pistons but the below post makes me think otherwise.


If the Spurs lose, I'll root for the Pistons. If the Pistons lose, I'll start watching baseball.

[timvp]

So the post below (which relates to my first post of this thread) is me trying to save face? You seem to act like a fan of basketball outside the Spurs/Pistons but the below post makes me think otherwise.:lol I wasn't being serious in that thread. Well yeah I was in that I'm rooting for the Spurs followed by the Pistons -- because if the Pistons can win the championship that will 2005 look even better for the Spurs. But honestly, Lakers vs. Cavs > baseball.

What does that have to do with a Laker Fan forgetting about Magic?

[BEE-lieve]

The liability with Duncan guarding West is obviously foul trouble.

Let's not go overboard here. All the Spurs needed to do from the start is take one in NOLA. All they need to do to accomplish that is win on Monday. A win on Monday and we're back in control. And we're winning on Monday.

:fail: :nope

[steeledl]

Win or lose this is it for the Spurs championship success. It all goes downhill for them after this season. So they need to turn this around because this is the final chapter of their championship era.

Good take, tbh.

[ducks]

why bumb this thread

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

Maybe since we have West now idk...

[timvp]

Thanks for the write-up, youngster.