Harvey: David molds David, and Spurs feel it

[timvp]

Harvey: David molds David, and Spurs feel it
San Antonio Express-News

NEW ORLEANS — David West was always a Spurs fan. He loved David Robinson, and how Robinson handled himself, and West talked about that Sunday.

This should make the Spurs feel even older. Those who grew up liking them are now beating them.

This should also worry the Spurs. West is averaging 30 points this season in Hornets' wins over the Spurs, and he isn't some airhead who will get caught up in the glory.

He will also not throw a party and invite Josh Howard. West stayed in school for four years, and he believes in being steady and professional, and he doesn't care that few in the country realize how good he is.

As role models go, the Spurs have been too good.

As defenders go, the Spurs have not been so good. West did what he wanted to do Saturday; had he not started slowly, including missing a dunk, he might have gone for 40 points.

Few saw this coming, even after West was named the Associated Press' college player of the year in 2003, his senior year at Xavier. Coincidentally, that was the year Robinson retired.

Also coincidentally, Robinson won the same award 16 years earlier. But whereas Robinson's size and athletic ability were undeniable then, West was seen as a 6-foot-9 power forward without much power.

West heard the critiques, and some came firsthand. “I remember one NBA guy sitting me down and saying, ‘At your size, you're going to have to do something drastic — either gain 40 pounds to become a Danny Fortson, or lose 30 pounds to adjust playing on the wing.'”

He went 18th in the draft behind, among others, players named Reece Gaines and Troy Bell. And when West showed up at his introductory press conference in New Orleans, he came with no jewelry and a small entourage. Only his parents and girlfriend were with him.

“One of the things I like about David,” Tim Floyd, the then-Hornets coach said that day, “is he lists his favorite basketball player as David Robinson.”

West worked, and his 17-foot jumper became automatic. He could always rebound, and defenders have found that his splay-footed first step seems to always get him to the basket.

Kurt Thomas, Robert Horry and Fab Oberto found the same Saturday.

Only Amare Stoudemire compares to West and his inside-outside combination, and West is surer and smarter. Little wonder West was an All-Star this year. And with the All-Star Game in New Orleans, West should have been impressed with himself then.

He wasn't. During a media session he saw Robinson, and West walked over, waited his turn and introduced himself. He told Robinson how much he admired him, and he met his sons.

Asked about that Sunday, West smiled and implied the two had just bumped into each other. But a Hornets staffer who was there that day said West was more excited about meeting Robinson than anything else that weekend. West thought it had been “the coolest thing.”

So why Robinson?

“He was one of those guys that, regardless of what negative things people said about him, he was a winner,” West said Sunday. “He never got out of character in terms of what he was, who he was. He didn't let things around him get to who he is. He may not have said it, but I always got that from him.”

West has thought of Tim Duncan and all of the Spurs in similar ways. “They go about their business,” West said. “They don't have to be flashy, all the bravado and stuff. Just get it done.”

Now West has become the Robinson/Duncan of the Hornets. No player has been with the franchise longer.

But West might be the NBA's least-known star outside of New Orleans. Gregg Popovich addressed that Sunday. “For some reason,” Popovich said, “he continues to be this underrated guy.”

Popovich should know the reasons by now. West doesn't play to the hype, and he doesn't work in a large market.

These are all parallels the Spurs would enjoy. Except for now. The one player they can't figure out also wants to be like them.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA050508.01D.COL.BKNharvey.spurs.3dbdc0e.html

[timvp]

:td

Now it's going to be hard to hate David West.

[whottt]

Yeah you could tell this guy was no fool by listening to his post game interview, hell you can tell by his comments in this article...he pretty much nails Drob's character and the Spurs...not a typical NBA player, as he's not bought and owned by the big media(if he was he wouldn't be a DRob fan and be so knowledgable about the Spurs) like most young players are.

But back to the task at hand...if I needed any further convincing that he needs to be doubled(and I didn't), this article provided it...not only because of his comments...but because karmically it fits as well, because the way to beat both Duncan and Drob was to double them.


If this Hornets team stays together(and if West is paying attention to Duncan and Robinson he won't be switching teams), they will definitely win a championship at some point.


Will it be this year? No, even if they were to get past the Spurs...they definitely won't get past the Lakers IMO. This is not to say I think the Lakers are a great deal better...but the Lakers match up with them well...and Phil will beat them using effective double teams.

[Man of Steel]

If we don't double team West we lose this series.

[boutons_]

bullshit. West is only one player, and he's not going to get anyhere near Amare's 37 ppg vs the Spurs. Fuck West.

Spurs play playoff bball and they take the next 4 games. Fuck West.

[timvp]

bullshit. West is only one player, and he's not going to get anyhere near Amare's 37 ppg vs the Spurs. Fuck West.

Spurs play playoff bball and they take the next 4 games. Fuck West.Listening to Pop after the game, he sounds like he will use boutons's theory in Game 2.

[itzsoweezee]

bullshit. West is only one player, and he's not going to get anyhere near Amare's 37 ppg vs the Spurs. Fuck West.


true. but if they give up 30 to west, and let paul, stojakovic, wells, peterson, etc. go off, then they're aren't going to win. at least against the suns, the spurs could shut nash or marion or barbosa down.

[O-Factor]

We have to be honest with ourselves. West is going to get his, much like Amare did last series. We just cant let the other guys like Peja, Chandler, Wells, Peterson beat us. We just need to play some fucking D, some Spurs D.

[whottt]

I don't get the comparisons to Amare anymore than I do Dirk....and I don't get the comparisons to the Suns and the Mavs either...

You could outscore the Suns...they could not play defense, that is why you could do things like let Amare get his.

The Hornets are more like the Spurs than they are the Suns or Mavs. They play defense, they can score inside and out, they can pass, they can run, they can play the half court...they are one of the most complete and versatile teams we have faced in the Duncan era...and this includes the Lakers as well. The Lakers couldn't run like these guys can....and they had no one that could pass like Paul either.

They are not like the Mavs or the Suns...they are an entirely different creature.


At the least they are like the Jazz with a better PG and PF.

[some_user86]

They are not like the Mavs or the Suns...they are an entirely different creature.

http://www.saunderscreative.com/assets/images/Galleries/Creature/Creature.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

I gotta agree with Boutons and Pop though. You can live with West and Paul getting hteres to some extent. What you can't live with is the horrible rebounding and role players tearing you up. Peja can NOT be allowed to destroy them the way he did, nor can Bonzi.

[whottt]

I'm not so sure Pop is going to do what boutons says...


Put it this way...you ever see Duncan get held to 5 points against the Suns?


Amare indeed...

[Slippy]

If this Hornets team stays together(and if West is paying attention to Duncan and Robinson he won't be switching teams), they will definitely win a championship at some point.


Was thinking this West guy belongs on the Spurs, then i soon came to this realisation.

[polandprzem]

But back to the task at hand...if I needed any further convincing that he needs to be doubled(and I didn't), this article provided it...not only because of his comments...but because karmically it fits as well, because the way to beat both Duncan and Drob was to double them.

Umm every great player can only be stoped by double team.
Dave once said something similar.


Now it's going to be hard to hate David West.
I hate West just because it's hard to hate him

[slayermin]

I hate West just because it's hard to hate him

:lol

[alamo50]

I have been skipping all of Buck Harvey´s articles for years now, but I just had to read this one. Good stuff.

[wildbill2u]

All this talk about a different animal explains why I find myself beginning to agree with Whott.

Weird feeling.

[SenorSpur]

I had no fight with West before. In fact, I've admired his game for a few seasons. Now I'm starting to really like the player. I just wish we had someone to slow him down.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

well he doesn't model david in all areas. The Admiral wouldn't "tap" someone on the cheek on national tv.

[SAGambler]

I agree that for a guy that it seems noone ever heard of, he is one hell of a talent. The guy can burn you from anywhere.

We are going to have to play the best D possible, and Manu, Tony, and Tim are all going to have to have 4 great scoring games if we are going to get by this group.

And if we don't....Well, I'm not so sure they can't hand the Lakers their asses. I mean, the Jazz was close to em on their home court yesterday.

[samikeyp]

well he doesn't model david in all areas. The Admiral wouldn't "tap" someone on the cheek on national tv.

:tu

[E20]

Adimral didn't need to, everyone knew not to EFF with him. All he needed to do was flex his goddamn pythons and everybody would know what's up. Further reference look at AHF's sig, that is body builder status and I didn't even know you could do that naturally w/o steriods.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Please somebody tell West that his own teammate CPaul believes in his own hype.

[Admidave50]

Hard to hate the guy, great article!

[wijayas]

:td

Now it's going to be hard to hate David West.

And West once said he was not in the same class as Tim, yet.

[remingtonbo2001]

If Tim had an outstanding performance, and the Spurs still lost, then I'd be concerned.

I'm expecting Duncan to come out and produce tonight. If Thomas and Oberto can do a better job of maning the paint, I think the Spurs can take a few of those "extra" opportuniities away from NO and West.

[whottt]

Umm every great player can only be stoped by double team.
Dave once said something similar.



If David said that he was wrong...that's not the way you beat a great PG...that's the way you lose to them.

You didn't see us doubling Nash did you?


If you doubled Magic Johnson, he'd turn Kurt Rambis into a 20 point scorer.


I'll agree it's generally the only way to stop a great bigman...but there have been exceptions to the rule...like Bill Walton for instance. I'd say Chris Webber is a bad guy to double team as well.


Generally...you don't ever double a truly great passer, as that only makes them better.

And doubling a bigman never works if he has enough perimeter threats(which I don't think West does).

[DarrinS]

I'm starting to like West the more I learn about him.


Just the opposite is true of CP3. I don't really care for the way he carries himself.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Just the opposite is true of CP3. I don't really care for the way he carries himself.
yeah. i don't like how he's making bowen out to be. that last flop he did followed by the 2nd grade yes-he-did-it finger point was a little much for me.

[Don Quixote]

West is better than Amare!

[whottt]

West is better than Amare!

In some ways....the main difference is that West can be defended one on one by just about any big on our roster without it being an automatic dunk...that's not true of Amare.

On the flip side...Amare is much more reliant on Steve Nash than West is on Chris Paul(at least based on game 1)...

West wasnt' getting his points from Paul...he was getting them entirely on his own....that was the biggest surprise and source of alarm for me.


I went into this series thinking that if you stop Chis Paul you will stop the Hornets...and West proved he wasn't just going to stand by and let that happen.

[lefty]

Well, I don't think we should double team West.

That would be hitting a new low.

For starters, Pop shouldn't put Oberto on him :bang

KT did a very good job on West, and Duncan was defending Chandler most of the time.

Pop should stick to TD and KT

[whottt]

Well, you aren't going to completely shut down the game of Chris Paul...I'd say he was shutdown in game 1 about as good as you are going to shut him down and we still got whupped, because of David West...

David West can be shut down..and if you have to double him to do it, then that's what you do.

I agree, he was pretty hot in game 1 and our guys were not particularly bad on him defensively, I don't think any of them were that bad on him. I didn't know that guy could create for himself like that, and he was moving all our bigs pretty effectively to boot...if he's turning into something special, you double his ass and don't let him become something special in this series.


He's not ready to handle double teams...it will be something new to him, and it will be effective against him IMO.

[TampaDude]

Now it's going to be hard to hate David West.

+1 DRob is the reason my wife and I are Spurs fans...kinda hard to hate on West now...

[DarrinS]

Well, I don't think we should double team West.

That would be hitting a new low.


Why are people so against the idea of doubling West? I think the way he's playing warrants a double-team (at least part of the time).

They doubled Tim 17 different times (that I counted).

[whottt]

Seriously...if anyone should know how effective double teams can be...it should be Spur fans.

The Spurs have lost more series because of effective double teams in the last 20 or so years, by far, than any other team in the NBA.


Virtually every loss of David Robinson's career was due to double(and often triple) teaming...that's what the Rockets and especially the Jazz did.

And every loss of Duncan's career with the exception of the Mavs loss(read every loss to the Lakers) has been at least in part due to double teaming.


It's an extremely effective playoff strategy against a bigman with a lack of depth or proven shooting on the perimeter...it's why Wilt didn't finish his career with 9 NBA championships.

The Spurs haven't done it much because they haven't had to do it...I'd point out that this hasn't kept them from losing..the teams that beat them were pretty much double team proof...the Hornets aren't.

[polandprzem]

Dave said that when you single cover a player in NBA he will always have an adventage scoring.

Yea and great passers and court vision players take adventages also from doubling them, so you have to figure something else - like help defense or shutting down the most probable passing lanes (like Atlanta vs Boston this year).

It will be intersting to see how West will play the 2nd game and what to do about it.

Still the rebounding and shooting is the key aspects to win this game.

[hater]

I think KT is doing an ok job. But I also think TD needs to man up and defent West as well. so it should be a combination of KT and TD. and Oberto and Horry should just hard foul West

[Spurminator]

Virtually every loss of David Robinson's career was due to double(and often triple) teaming...that's what the Rockets and especially the Jazz did.

Not that I'm against double teaming, but an important difference here is that David West isn't passing out to Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro on the perimeter.

[whottt]

Duncan is not a lockdown PF...he might be able to lock down someone like Kenyon Martin or something...but he's not going to lock down an elite guy. Duncan's defensive excellence lies in his help and team defense....not in his one on one defensive ability.

It's not the solution you guys think it will be...Kurt Thomas and Robert Horry(was) are much better one on one defenders than Tim Duncan.

[whottt]

Not that I'm against double teaming, but an important difference here is that David West isn't passing out to Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro on the perimeter.


David West might be passing out to Vinny Del Stoyachovich on the perimeter...and I say that because Vinny Del Negro may have been the worst wide open 3 shooter in NBA history...he actually wasn't that bad if he had a man on him or running towards him. It was when he was wide open and dared to shoot than he sucked.


David also had guys like Person and (mainly)Dale Ellis that let him down...


Duncan has been let down by guys like Smitty and Terry Porter, and of course Hedo.


These guys were all legit 3 point threats...who didn't shoot well when their big was doubled.


Some guys just choke those open shots being dared to shoot...it's definitely a talent to hit them. And I'm not so sure Peja has it...and I dont' know of anyone that particularly scares me on the perimeter outside of Peja. Not even Paul.


On top of that...we don't know that West has the poise or passing ability to hit those guys....especially after he's commited himself to scoring, becuase that's a talent too.


THe main thing is...if you destroy West's confidence by forcing turnovers etc with doubles...you might not have to double him much at all.


Put it this way...IF West stays hot and the Spurs don't throw some doubles on this guy and they just let him score...it will be an incredibly stupid thing to do on the part of the Spurs. I will be the first in here with the fire Pop thread.

[Spurminator]

Peja seems a lot more confident with the Hornets. I don't know if it's the Peja-head-on-stick love fest or what, but he doesn't have the look of a Playoff choker like he used to... and he scares me a lot more these days than he did with the Kings.

[Budkin]

I love David West's game. But I hope he misses every single shot he takes in the rest of this series.

[whottt]

Peja seems a lot more confident with the Hornets. I don't know if it's the Peja-head-on-stick love fest or what, but he doesn't have the look of a Playoff choker like he used to... and he scares me a lot more these days than he did with the Kings.



He was pretty scary when he was with the Kings until his last couple of years there...

Fine then...you put Bown on Peja, Parker on Paul, and then you double with Finley or Manu off Mo Pete.

See my point is that if the double is done right...Peja might not even get the ball.

The one disadvantage West has aganst the Spurs bigs is a lack of height...he won't be able to see over guys like Horry or even KT...


It's not as simple as you double him and then there's an open man that he throws it too...watch how doubles impact Tim Duncan when they are done right...a lot of times Duncan turns it over or continues to try and score on the double...


West is going to do something similar...this guy hasn't proven he's any great passer out of double teams...why are Spurfans giving him that credit? That's the second most difficult aspect of a double team to master(after scoring on them).

[SPARKY]

He was pretty scary when he was with the Kings until his last couple of years there...

Fine then...you put Bown on Peja, Parker on Paul, and then you double with Finley or Manu off Mo Pete.

See my point is that if the double is done right...Peja might not even get the ball.

The one disadvantage West has aganst the Spurs bigs is a lack of height...he won't be able to see over guys like Horry or even KT...


It's not as simple as you double him and then there's an open man that he throws it too...watch how doubles impact Tim Duncan when they are done right...a lot of times Duncan turns it over or continues to try and score on the double...


West is going to do something similar...this guy hasn't proven he's any great passer out of double teams...why are Spurfans giving him that credit? That's the second most difficult aspect of a double team to master(after scoring on them).

Parker on Paul and Bruce on Predrag is an obvious adjustment. I think the Spurs will throw some different looks at West in Game 2. They will have to be careful with who doubles West if they go that route. The likely candidate would be Finley. But the Spurs will need to be able to close out on Peterson when the rock is reversed around the perimeter.

[Indazone]

I think you guys need to take CP3 out of his game. Double the floor general and everybody else will suck.

[timvp]

even if they were to get past the Spurs...they definitely won't get past the Lakers IMO. This is not to say I think the Lakers are a great deal better...but the Lakers match up with them wellAgreed. The Hornets would be easier for the Lakers than the Jazz. They have Odom for West and a lot of options to throw at Paul. Lakers would beat Hornets in five.



If this Hornets team stays together(and if West is paying attention to Duncan and Robinson he won't be switching teams), they will definitely win a championship at some point. I would agree except for one thing ... injuries. The top four players on their team are all injury prone. It's a miracle that they are all healthy right now. Peja has a bad back and he's 30, which puts him right on the edge of declining rapidly. West has been injured a lot in his career -- even back when he was a bit player. Chandler is always an injury waiting to happen. Even Paul seems to be banged up quite a bit. Plus, point guards as short as him always seem to peak early in their careers and battle injury (unless your name is Calvin Murphy or Avery Johnson).

All the stars are aligned for New Orleans. If you take away one of those four players, they become a much more beatable team. I don't think the chances of such an injury prone team to be healthy at the same time in the playoffs is that likely ... and will become less likely as they age.

As odd as it may sound, the Spurs' window is probably larger than the Hornets window . . .

[ClingingMars]

the fact that we only lost by 19 and duncan had 5 points should tell you something.

- Mars

[whottt]

the fact that we only lost by 19 and duncan had 5 points should tell you something.

- Mars



Yes...it tells me that the both the Spurs and Duncan got their asses kicked.

[whottt]

The only guy that won his matchup in that game was Bruce Bowen.

[whottt]

Parker on Paul and Bruce on Predrag is an obvious adjustment. I think the Spurs will throw some different looks at West in Game 2. They will have to be careful with who doubles West if they go that route. The likely candidate would be Finley. But the Spurs will need to be able to close out on Peterson when the rock is reversed around the perimeter.


I personally like doubling with Manu, as Manu can go for the steal low, and he excels at doing this when he's improvising on his own, he'll do it even better with the coaches blessing IMO...and then he can key our transition game.

[whottt]

I would agree except for one thing ... injuries. The top four players on their team are all injury prone. It's a miracle that they are all healthy right now. Peja has a bad back and he's 30, which puts him right on the edge of declining rapidly. West has been injured a lot in his career -- even back when he was a bit player. Chandler is always an injury waiting to happen. Even Paul seems to be banged up quite a bit. Plus, point guards as short as him always seem to peak early in their careers and battle injury (unless your name is Calvin Murphy or Avery Johnson).

All the stars are aligned for New Orleans. If you take away one of those four players, they become a much more beatable team. I don't think the chances of such an injury prone team to be healthy at the same time in the playoffs is that likely ... and will become less likely as they age.

As odd as it may sound, the Spurs' window is probably larger than the Hornets window . . .



Well you got a point about the injuries, and yeah I agree that Paul seems to be injury prone too...I'm not saying they'll contend year in and year out...but even injury prone players sometiems have a healthy year every now and then...

Basically is sounds like you think they will be the Rockets part 2...I think it's too early to make that judgement...I mean, you can see Yao is not long for the NBA...I don't see what with any of the Hornets.


I agree Peja isn't going to be doing much beyond this year...but I don't cosndder him the core of that team really...he's just the designated shooter...the JJ, SJax, Mario Elie...

Yuck...let me rephrase that so as not to insult those Spurs heroes...

He's the Porter, the Smitty, the Hedo....the replaceable part so to speak.

[thibodauxbee]

My first post here and let me start by saying I have the utmost respect for the Spurs and it is very exciting to be playing you guys in the playoffs. I would never consider talking trash to the Spurs because...... well, four championships OK.
Just wanted to say West was'nt HOT for game one. David is very consistent and shoots the medium jump shot better than anyone I've seen in the NBA this year. I agree that I would double him and he has had some problems with that this year.
Just wonderful to be able to talk to you guys and feel apart of the whole NBA playoff experience instead of being on the outside looking in.
Good luck if you get past us.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

west = classy

[PlayoffEx-static]

David West is a punk ass and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same thread as David Robinson.

[johngateswhiteley]

:td

Now it's going to be hard to hate David West.

..still feel that way? lol. i'd like to slap him.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

David West is a punk ass and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same thread as David Robinson.

That's what I hate about self-serving articles that try to paint this "humble" "classy" image for every damn newcomer. Too promotional.
Also a player saying 'the right things' doesn't always equate to class, if the words are empty.

Save the talk til' after they walk the walk.
Everyone tries to act classy or portray themselves as having that rep, but talk is cheap...actions speak louder than words.
It's usually rare to have genuine guys like a Tim Duncan, David Robinson, etc.