Official Pop Put Bowen on Peja and Parker on CP3 Thread

[baseline bum]

Bowen owns Stojakovic dude. Parker's a solid defender at the PG; I don't understand why he's not on Paul. Finley on Stojakovic is a fucking joke.

[VinnyTestesVerde]

WTF...where did peja circa 2002 come from???

[ShoogarBear]

He's weaving that second-half magic against the Hornets again. Another sub-20-point quarter.

[Tigole Bitties]

Brian McNamee

[MI21]

I agree. It's to late in this game, they have dug themselves a 2-0 hole, but the next game, I want Parker on Paul.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That and 4down are doing us in. But Pop won't adjust, we just need more "heart". Stupid son of a bitch.

Peja's averaging about 25 a game so far with the various other Spurs checking him, Paul is going off for about 30 and 13 every game, so tell me exactly how this Bowen thing is working out again?

As to the offense, we ran pick and roll five straight trips in the 3rd quarter and got four buckets and a pair of FTs. So we go back to 4down. Oh, and the Spurs are now 15-55 on threes in this series, playing right into the teeth of Byron's defense that is coming with the hard double on Tim.

This team can't hit enough outside jumpers to win 4 of 7 (let alone 4 of 5) against New Orleans. But Pop is going to try his damnedest to make them try, and this team is going to probably get swept due to his stupidity.

And to head it off, the Pop apologists like Tpark can kiss my ass. This is vintage Lakers defense - pack in the D on Duncan when we run 4down and make us beat them from outside.

We can't, and any of you stupid SOBs (and you, P_p_bitch) who think we can have two blowouts to show for it. And are going to get two more if we keep it up.

It's awesome watching us piss away another year of Duncan's prime, all because Pop foolishly accepted Byron's sucker bet that Finley, Bowen, Udoka, Parker, Manu, and Horry can hit enough outside jumpers to beat the Hornets 4 out of 7.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

AHF, do you think Pop may have "deteriorated" as a coach?

Or does he just not have the right personnel to beat the Hornets

[timvp]

This is exactly what I feared coming into this series. Pop wasting Bowen on Paul and then Stojakovic going off on the weak azz perimeter defenders on the Spurs outside of Bowen. And then Parker can't fvcking guard Mo Pete. You create three mismatches instead of one by putting Bowen on CP3.

Bowen on Peja
Parker on CP3
Ginobili on Mo Pete

Got damn it :pctoss

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Psst, join us..... ;)

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94276

[Kori Ellis]

Pop being stubborn on the defensive matchups is going to kill the Spurs.

Bowen on Paul, Tony on MoPete and Manu/Fin on Peja doesn't work. Paul is going to get his anyway. MoPete is too tall for Tony. And Manu/Fin can't guard Peja.

Just slide Bowen to Peja. Let Tony do what he can on Paul. And then Manu/Fin can use some length on MoPete.

It's simple to me to make the switch. I have no idea why he didn't.

[Fillmoe]

lol... looks like the hornets are gonna whiz past the spurs

[gmanrulz]

paul abuses parker so easily

[1Parker1]

It would help if the Spurs played 48 minutes, showed some heart and hustle, and made wide open damn shots.

[Kori Ellis]

paul abuses parker so easily

Not really. Parker guarded him better in Game 1 than Bowen did.

[spursfaninla]

So we are supposed to drive into the paint, I take it. We are supposed to push the ball and drive on misses. I must say, the way we lost these 2 games makes it hard to imagine adjustments.

Nevertheless, Detroit did come back and took us to 7 after losing 2, so we are by no means done if we win the next 2 at home. this is going to be hard though.

[timvp]

paul abuses parker so easilyParker and Bowen do about the same job on CP3. Put fvkcing Peja on Bowen to take that soft b!tch out of the series. Anyone else can guard Mo Pete.

West isn't the difference maker. It's Peja and Mo Pete that are killing the Spurs.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

man pop just owned that reporter.. that was hilarious.

[TDfan2007]

Pop being stubborn on the defensive matchups is going to kill the Spurs.

Bowen on Paul, Tony on MoPete and Manu/Fin on Peja doesn't work. Paul is going to get his anyway. MoPete is too tall for Tony. And Manu/Fin can't guard Peja.

Just slide Bowen to Peja. Let Tony do what he can on Paul. And then Manu/Fin can use some length on MoPete.

It's simple to me to make the switch. I have no idea why he didn't.

CIA Pop :rolleyes

honestly if they're going to coach and play like this then why bother even showing up? Save the Spurs fans in attendance some money and the rest of us 2 1/2 hours of our time...

[bdictjames]

man pop just owned that reporter.. that was hilarious.
What'd he do?

[1Parker1]

Pop being stubborn on the defensive matchups is going to kill the Spurs.

Bowen on Paul, Tony on MoPete and Manu/Fin on Peja doesn't work. Paul is going to get his anyway. MoPete is too tall for Tony. And Manu/Fin can't guard Peja.

Just slide Bowen to Peja. Let Tony do what he can on Paul. And then Manu/Fin can use some length on MoPete.

It's simple to me to make the switch. I have no idea why he didn't.

Because Pop seems to think this is about the Spurs lack of effort and hustle, not bad defensive matchups. :pctoss

Chuck actually made a great point; After the Spurs big 3, there's such a huge dropoff with the Spurs bench offensively. Hornets aren't afraid of the Spurs bench. Hornets today managed to easily win with West having an off night. The Spurs with Parker/Ginobili struggling can't break 80 points barely.

[1Parker1]

Parker and Bowen do about the same job on CP3. Put fvkcing Peja on Bowen to take that soft b!tch out of the series. Anyone else can guard Mo Pete.

West isn't the difference maker. It's Peja and Mo Pete that are killing the Spurs.

How the hell did Peja get so many wide open 3 pointers??? That's what I'd like to know. Where's the defense, Bowen or no Bowen on him...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

AHF, do you think Pop may have "deteriorated" as a coach?

Or does he just not have the right personnel to beat the Hornets

I don't think Pop has deteriorated. He's always loved the idea of feeding it into Duncan and surrounding him with shooters. Byron has just suckered him into doing it every play.

That's what's killing our offense. Again, we can't win this series with Tim having 10-15 points a game and being a non-factor. But that's the bet Byron has made, and Pop has been suckered into.

The Spurs are now 18-60 on threes in two games. SIXTY threes! Sixty!!!! And we're less than 33% shooting on them.

It pisses me off watching Byron Scott in the post-game tonight. They asked him how they shut down our offense, and he said he can't comment on that, but that they didn't change anything from game 1.

That should send chills down the back of every Spurs fan out there, because we heard it once before, in 2001, when Phil did the same shit to us with the Lakers and Robert Horry of all people was the one to make the same comment.

We went to the pick and roll for a 3 minute stretch tonight in the third, and got points every time down. Then at the start of the fourth when we pulled all the big three and started all bench players, they were running pick and roll and motion and sliced and diced the New Orleans D. Think about that for a minute.

Vaughn, Barry, Oberto, Horry, and Udoka trimmed a 16 point lead to 9 against three of the five NO starters in there. Why? Because we weren't running that stupid ass set.

And unless we change that, and significantly, we won't score enough to have a shot at winning.

My biggest fear right now is that Pop won't change for game 3, our guys will come out comfortable in game 3 and hitting at home, and we'll win that one due to something ridiculous like 60% on threes for the game.

Then he won't adjust, the bottom will fall out in game 4 and NO wins in game 5.

------------

To the defense, I think everyone has hit it on the nose. Pop is so in love with the idea of Bowen being on the alpha threat for the other team that he's stuck on stupid and putting Bowen on Paul, which has allowed ALL the NO perimeter players to go off.

It's even more maddening because the last regular season game we won against them we had Bowen on Peja, Tony on Paul, and beat them. But Pop is stuck on his stupid playoff formula of heavy doses of Duncan on the low block on offense and trotting out Bowen on the other team's best perimeter player, and we've created this mess that is getting us blown out in two straight so far (with more on the way unless that stubborn SOB changes things up).

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not normally against Pop. But not switching this is ridiculous.

[Kori Ellis]

How the hell did Peja get so many wide open 3 pointers??? That's what I'd like to know. Where's the defense, Bowen or no Bowen on him...

He got a lot of them in transition. But Bowen is probably the only one on the roster that can guard him. So they need to switch it.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So like you said before, it's 2004 all over again

Except, we're down 2-0 this time

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Because Pop seems to think this is about the Spurs lack of effort and hustle, not bad defensive matchups. :pctoss

Chuck actually made a great point; After the Spurs big 3, there's such a huge dropoff with the Spurs bench offensively. Hornets aren't afraid of the Spurs bench. Hornets today managed to easily win with West having an off night. The Spurs with Parker/Ginobili struggling can't break 80 points barely.

Someone better tell Pop that, because he thinks those bench role players can step up and hit enough shots in the stupid ass 4down set to win this series.

And Byron's laughing all the way to the conference finals about it.

[ShoogarBear]

Pop needs to get over himself.

[still.focused]

Maybe we'll do something this off season instead of this bullshit ride it out till 2012 crap
Losers

[polandprzem]

What'd he do?

Pop said that the reporter that he is accurate young man

[MI21]

This years Hornets Peja is a bit different to the previous years. He has hit clutch shots all year, and hasn't choked in the playoffs. We know he can't score with Bowen on him, so lets take his production away. Not only that. Without Peja's 3's the Hornets are not a good outside shooting team.

Pop should of learnt from Game 1... but as we know, the guy is stubborn. It would not surprise me if he stuck with the same strategy to start Game 3.

I'm seeing some paralells to 2004 Lakers series... for some reason. Everything clicking for the home team, everyone playing there bit. Support players stepping up. The Spurs need to pull an 04 Lakers and start using some veteran savvy. Switch up there defensive strategies and play with a lot more fire. Put someone on the ground. Don't take what the defense is giving you, make THEM adjust. Try a few things for short stretches. Duncan high post to bring Chandler away from the hoop, motion off the ball, backdoor cuts, run off screens, catch the ball on the move. I've seen these things before from the Spurs, they need to show some diversity because what they are doing is not working. First quarter game 3 is going to tell me a lot about this team. I don't think this series is over by any means.

Also, start Barry. Give it a try, it's worked before. Parker on Paul, Barry on Peterson, Bowen on Stojakovic. Pop needs to trust Tony.

Or start Manu...

[SPARKY]

Pop's rationale, I think, is that he doesn't want to wear out Tony and/or have him pick up a bunch of fouls by putting him on Paul. But that wouldn't make much sense considering that they have a few days off before Game 3. Pop's being his usual stubborn self.

[still.focused]

Peja got a few wide open jumpers on Ginobili fuck ups
I watched him die on screens like 3 or 4 times
Minimal effort gettin around em

[timvp]

Offense isn't the problem. The Spurs are getting open shots. It's their defense that is getting abused. The offense can be solved pretty easily -- ballmovement and hit the open threes. I don't think that's going to be the downfall.

Letting fvcking Peja own the series has killed the Spurs more than anything.

[Ragin Cajun]

How the hell did Peja get so many wide open 3 pointers??? That's what I'd like to know. Where's the defense, Bowen or no Bowen on him...

It's all about CP3. He is the one that's killing the Spurs. Everything revolves around him.

[G-Nob]

I still think irregardless who is guarding Peja, the Spurs are simply outmatched. Just like the game plan tonight was to slow West down. They still got burned by MoPete and the rook. Hornets have way too many weapons and the spurs have too few. Our defense has to be perfect for these games to be even close.

[Kori Ellis]

I still think irregardless who is guarding Peja, the Spurs are simply outmatched. Just like the game plan tonight was to slow West down. They still got burned by MoPete and the rook. Hornets have way too many weapons and the spurs have too few. Our defense has to be perfect for these games to be even close.

They got burned by MoPete because he's 4 inches taller than Tony. He's not 4 inches taller than Finley.

They aren't outmatched at every spot, but Pop's defense is making them be.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop's rationale, I think, is that he doesn't want to wear out Tony and/or have him pick up a bunch of fouls by putting him on Paul. But that wouldn't make much sense considering that they have a few days off before Game 3. Pop's being his usual stubborn self.

The other thing that doesn't make sense is that this strategy has gotten the Spurs beat by 20 in 4 out of 6 games, yet we still keep doing it.

[1Parker1]

Finley is useless on defense, Parker/Bowen isn't going to slow down CP3, so Pop may as well put Bowen on Peja, although I believe he did at one point and Peja still hit his shots.

Parker looked sick today or completely out of it for some reason.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Offense isn't the problem. The Spurs are getting open shots. It's their defense that is getting abused. The offense can be solved pretty easily -- ballmovement and hit the open threes. I don't think that's going to be the downfall.

Letting fvcking Peja own the series has killed the Spurs more than anything.

So you think that Finley, Udoka, Bowen, Manu, and Parker can beat New Orleans four out of seven games with jump shots? Come on LJ....

[Kori Ellis]

Finley is useless on defense, Parker/Bowen isn't going to slow down CP3, so Pop may as well put Bowen on Peja, although I believe he did at one point and Peja still hit his shots.

Parker looked sick today or completely out of it for some reason.

Duncan had a 103 fever the other day. Tony sounded sick in postgame but I am hoping he's not. Duncan played it off like he wasn't sick, but I'm hoping he didn't pass the flu around.

[timvp]

So you think that Finley, Udoka, Bowen, Manu, and Parker can beat New Orleans four out of seven games with jump shots? Come on LJ....Finley, Bowen, Manu and Barry can beat you if you leave them open. Those are four of the best postseason three-point shooters in the NBA today.

You aren't confident in those guys hitting wide open threes?

[MI21]

This Spurs team, more than any other Spurs team I can remember, plays good defense when they play good offense. They don't seem to have that lockdown mentality when they aren't scoring like previous Spurs teams. Better offense will lead to better defense from these guys..

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Finley is useless on defense, Parker/Bowen isn't going to slow down CP3, so Pop may as well put Bowen on Peja, although I believe he did at one point and Peja still hit his shots.

Parker looked sick today or completely out of it for some reason.

Peja is averaging 25 a game against Spurs other than Bowen so far.

Paul is averaging 25 and 13, which is actually slightly above his average during the season.

MoPete is averaging 10 PPG against Parker, which is 2 PPG above his average.

So yeah, Bowen is doing us a lot of good on Paul. Pop is in vintage 2001, 2004 mode.

[1Parker1]

Finley, Bowen, Manu and Barry can beat you if you leave them open. Those are four of the best postseason three-point shooters in the NBA today.

You aren't confident in those guys hitting wide open threes?

No....

They had plenty of opportunities today and looked scared to shoot the ball. They've lost confidence in their shooting. Barry's 3 pointers all came in garbage time mostly. I think they can do it for a game or two, but they are so damn inconsistent is the problem. Can you imagine them coming through in 4 of the next 5 games consistently?

[DAF86]

Paul is going to get his numbers no matter who's guarding him so yes we need to put Bowen on Peja.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

AHF, do you think Pop may have "deteriorated" as a coach?

Or does he just not have the right personnel to beat the Hornets
It can't be the personnel card when you have Duncan your team every year.

If Pop doesn't get us to repeat this year, it'll be a valid knock on him, why he didn't get a repeat championship compared to the other great coaches.

(And that's relative to the great championship coaches, of course) It's still pretty annoying to see him get outcoached in '04, '06 and possibly '08. These are equally matched teams we've been eliminated by. Coaching can put us over the top.

[mikekim]

I don't know who I'm disappointed in more...the players or the coaches. If I had to choose, I'd choose the coaches.

Now's a good a time as any to kick themselves into gear.

[G-Nob]

They got burned by MoPete because he's 4 inches taller than Tony. He's not 4 inches taller than Finley.

They aren't outmatched at every spot, but Pop's defense is making them be.

It doesn't matter what it looks like on paper. They're killing us with good old-fashioned, ass-kickin hustle. Yes, I agree move Bowen to Peja, but we aren't going to beat them if we continue let them out-everything us.

[1Parker1]

Duncan had a 103 fever the other day. Tony sounded sick in postgame but I am hoping he's not. Duncan played it off like he wasn't sick, but I'm hoping he didn't pass the flu around.

Yea, Parker definitely looked like he was sick and sounded like it in the postgame too. No excuse though. MJ dropped 50 when he had the flu and he was a lot older at the time than Parker :madrun :lol

[SPARKY]

When you put Bowen on the 1 then you automatically create a mismatch elsewhere on D. The Spurs can't get away with that against this opponent. Bowen and Manu can take care of Predrag and Peterson. I'm not sure what Pop is smoking but hopefully he quits it before game 3.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs have had absolutely no one outside of Bruce who could guard Stojakovic all season. I knew this was a loss the second I saw the same defensive matchups from game 1.... and what happened to the original title of my thread!?! :lol

[Frankster]

Is it me or does Paul have a habit of pushing his defender away with his non-dribbling hand when he's driving to the basket?

[Kori Ellis]

Yea, Parker definitely looked like he was sick and sounded like it in the postgame too. No excuse though. MJ dropped 50 when he had the flu and he was a lot older at the time than Parker :madrun :lol

No, the Spurs aren't using it as an excuse. Even Duncan denied that he had been sick at all :lol

[1Parker1]

Is it me or does Paul have a habit of pushing his defender away with his non-dribbling hand when he's driving to the basket?

He also has a habbit of traveling and getting away with it...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Finley, Bowen, Manu and Barry can beat you if you leave them open. Those are four of the best postseason three-point shooters in the NBA today.

You aren't confident in those guys hitting wide open threes?

Well, them and Horry are a combined 18-60 so far in two games against the Hornets, so no.

Yeah, those guys used to be, but it's clear they aren't shooting worth a flip in this series. We've gotten blown out two straight expecting them to hit said wide open threes, do we have to watch them go 40-130 and make it four straight before it becomes a dumb idea?

Why is it our bench can come out at the start of the fourth, run pick and roll and that nice flex motion with Oberto working the baseline and cut the lead from 17 to 9 with Paul, West, and Peja all in the game, and we can have our most effective other stretch of the game on offense in the third running pick and roll, but we HAVE to go back to this stupid 4down crap that has gotten us rolled two straight?

Let me know when it's okay to complain about us falling right into Byron's trap of being in love with the three ball. Or let me guess, it never will be, we'll get rolled by NO, we'll bounce a couple of old guys and float some stories about them being locker room cancers in the playoffs, and all will be better (as we burn another year of Duncan's prime).

[Ice009]

Offense isn't the problem. The Spurs are getting open shots. It's their defense that is getting abused. The offense can be solved pretty easily -- ballmovement and hit the open threes. I don't think that's going to be the downfall.

Letting fvcking Peja own the series has killed the Spurs more than anything.

I thought for sure Pop would have Bruce on Peja tonight. I absolutely cannot believe it. I thought he was maybe being CIA or something when he said he doesn't need to change anything after game 1. lol don't change anything Pop = same result - blowout.

[polandprzem]

As much as you blame Pop

1. Parker doing absolutely nothing
2. Finley can't hit jack
3. Udoka can't hit Jack
4. Ginobili is turnover machine
5. No quick passes
6. Bowen jacking up J's? wtf?
7. Late at roitation on D
8. Can't distrup the passing lanes
9. Zero smart play
10. Rushing + no continuation in the action after they close the door for TP


We have oppurtunieties to shoot, we failed. Good job Scott.
Trap Gino. Good job Scott.



All in all --->> :pctoss

[G-Nob]

He also has a habbit of traveling and getting away with it...


And running into people and falling down. He's done it to Oberto at least 3 times in this series resulting in cheap fouls and refs are eating it up.

Also, WTF not T'ing up West with the taunt? THe MF'ing refs need to be Johnny on the spot with that sh!t.

[SPARKY]

The Spurs have had absolutely no one outside of Bruce who could guard Stojakovic all season. I knew this was a loss the second I saw the same defensive matchups from game 1.... and what happened to the original title of my thread!?! :lol

The last time the Spurs beat the Hornets Bruce was on Predrag.

Pop, wtf?

:wtf

[1Parker1]

No, the Spurs aren't using it as an excuse. Even Duncan denied that he had been sick at all :lol

:lol Yea I know.

What I want to know is, where the hell is the Spurs biggest mismatch, Ginobili?? I know he's injured, but if he's been healthy enough to practice than he should be healthy enough to impact this series. He doesn't look slow or anything when he's played. His rythmn is quite off and he's way too dependent on his 3 point shooting right now. He should be owning these guys. Instead, Peja is outplaying Ginobili by a mile.

[1Parker1]

One thing I do give props to Pop for; I can now see why he was hesitant in Game 1 and did NOT play Udoka. :tu :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And to continue the discussion about offense, does anyone really think our perimeter players, who are a combined 18-60 from three so far in this series, can somehow reverse that trend enough to shoot us to wins in four of the next five against New Orleans?

Anyone not drinking silver and black koolaid?

Because that's the bed Pop has made for this team at this point.

[Admidave50]

the second half was just horrible to watch, so frustrating!

[jmard5]

Duncan had a 103 fever the other day. Tony sounded sick in postgame but I am hoping he's not. Duncan played it off like he wasn't sick, but I'm hoping he didn't pass the flu around.

Hi Kori,

Any word about Manu's condition too? He's too tentative out there.

And man, what a time for the Spurs to get sick and hobbled.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

One thing I do give props to Pop for; I can now see why he was hesitant in Game 1 and did NOT play Udoka. :tu :lol

Yeah, all he did was lock down Bonzi, get Bonzi into foul trouble, and make some hustle plays to get us back to single digits in the second half...

But hey, he missed 3-4 shots tonight, so bench him. If that's the criteria, when do Finley, Bowen, Parker, and Manu take a seat on the pine?

[timvp]

Well, them and Horry are a combined 18-60 so far in two games against the Hornets, so no.

Yeah, those guys used to be, but it's clear they aren't shooting worth a flip in this series. If the shooting dries up, the Spurs will lose. The Spurs can't win playoff series if they can't shoot.

Part of the problem is the Spurs are facing the exact opposite defense than they saw in the first series against the Suns. The Suns weren't leaving the shooters at all. Now the Hornets are leaving the shooters. The problem is that right now the shooters are out of rhythm.

But if you think there's a way to beat the Hornets right now without stretching the court with some threes, you didn't pay attention enough in 2001 or 2004. Post players who have bricking three-point shooters don't win playoff series. Instead of looking for other ways to attack, stare the troubles in the eyes and show them why the Spurs have collected clutch three-point shooters over the years.

I'll bank on the three-point shooters being able to turn it around. They are missing now but all it takes is one big game where the Spurs blow them out from beyond the arc and the Hornets will have to alter their defense. Duncan and Parker can't do anything right now with the lane packed. The Spurs must space it out with threes.

Forcing it into the paint against a stuffed lane is why the Spurs lost in 2001 and 2004. Trust the shooters to do the job that has them on the roster.

[timvp]

And to continue the discussion about offense, does anyone really think our perimeter players, who are a combined 18-60 from three so far in this series, can somehow reverse that trend enough to shoot us to wins in four of the next five against New Orleans?

Anyone not drinking silver and black koolaid?

Because that's the bed Pop has made for this team at this point.The Spurs win and die with shooters since 1999. What type of magical offense do you want to run that can be effective against a packed lane?

[Ragin Cajun]

CP3 causes the defense to collapse on him when he gets in the paint. That leaves guys like Peja and Mo-Pete wide open regardless of who is assigned to cover them.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

The Spurs will recover.

They need to give Tim the ball in his sweet spots so that he can score or find the double when it comes. He's got to also doa better job of reading the double, and not get rattled, which is very uncharacteristic of him.

They also need to find a way to spread the floor when he's got the ball.

And, obviously our 3 point shooters need to hit their shots, in order to keep the defense honest.

We do all of this in the first half relatively well, and that's why we're up at the end of the half.

We need to sustain our defense and keep executing our offense the way we do in the first half.

We come out with lack of focus and intensity on both ends of the floor in third and dig ourselves too big of a hole.

[cly2tw]

CP3 causes the defense to collapse on him when he gets in the paint. That leaves guys like Peja and Mo-Pete wide open regardless of who is assigned to cover them.

Correct. With Parker on Paul, it'd be even worse. It's a dilemma the Spurs don't have enough talent on the roster to solve. Sorry guys.:downspin:

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Spurs win and die with shooters since 1999. What type of magical offense do you want to run that can be effective against a packed lane?

Come on LJ, I already covered this. When we got out of 4down tonight in the third and went to the pick and roll in the third, we finally started getting easy buckets in the paint.

We also ran a nice motion set in the fourth that had the Hornets dazed and confused. I never said we need to abandon the three, and you are right that the three point shot is going to help stretch the floor for us, but not if we aren't hitting any of them.

You sound just like Pop. Content to live or die by the three, and guess what - we're going to die by it, with a perfectly good change of pace that has shown already that it can cause problems for New Orleans.

4down is playing right into the teeth of the New Orleans D. When we ran side pick and roll and that motion set tonight, New Orleans didn't know what to do and was giving up a friggin' layup line to us.

We will probably hit enough threes in game 3 to win, but it's fool's gold to think we're going to hit enough to win four of five. If that's your solution, and right now it's clearly Pop's, this team's season is done in the next week.

And it's insanity to keep running the same shit over and over and over again when it isn't working. Our stubborness on offense is reason 1B behind 1A of Bowen on Paul as to why we've gotten our asses handed to us two straight.

You're a smart guy, I can't believe you're view on our offense is simply 'screw it, we live or die by the three', without even entertaining the idea of doing something different on offense than what New Orleans is begging us to do every play.

That's vintage 2001, 2004. And we're headed for the same result.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Spurs in 6.

They'll figure out by next game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Spurs will recover.

They need to give Tim the ball in his sweet spots so that he can score or find the double when it comes. He's got to also doa better job of reading the double, and not get rattled, which is very uncharacteristic of him.

They also need to find a way to spread the floor when he's got the ball.

And, obviously our 3 point shooters need to hit their shots, in order to keep the defense honest.

We do all of this in the first half relatively well, and that's why we're up at the end of the half.

We need to sustain our defense and keep executing our offense the way we do in the first half.

We come out with lack of focus and intensity on both ends of the floor in third and dig ourselves too big of a hole.

You clearly aren't even watching the games. Tim's making great passes out of the double team. It's our 30% three point shooting that is doing us in.

[homer]

Brian McNamee

You Switched the T and B in your name.............Clever, I like it.:lol
Kori, how many names do you post under?:hat

[G-Nob]

Correct. With Parker on Paul, it'd be even worse. It's a dilemma the Spurs don't have enough talent on the roster to solve. Sorry guys.:downspin:

I can't help but agree w/ you. Say Spurs make all the adjustments people are screaming about. Play zone, Paul burns you with jumpers. Double Paul in the lane, chandler ally oops. Stay home on Chandler, Paul layups. Collapse the lane, open shooter knocks it down.

I don't care what adjustments are made. Spurs are outmatched.

[1Parker1]

Yeah, all he did was lock down Bonzi, get Bonzi into foul trouble, and make some hustle plays to get us back to single digits in the second half...

But hey, he missed 3-4 shots tonight, so bench him. If that's the criteria, when do Finley, Bowen, Parker, and Manu take a seat on the pine?

Did you see him in the 3rd quarter? He commited bad fouls, overdribbled, and single handedly ruined whatever momentum the Spurs had going with bad shot selections and turnovers.

[timvp]

Come on LJ, I already covered this. When we got out of 4down tonight in the third and went to the pick and roll in the third, we finally started getting easy buckets in the paint.

We also ran a nice motion set in the fourth that had the Hornets dazed and confused. I never said we need to abandon the three, and you are right that the three point shot is going to help stretch the floor for us, but not if we aren't hitting any of them.

You sound just like Pop. Content to live or die by the three, and guess what - we're going to die by it, with a perfectly good change of pace that has shown already that it can cause problems for New Orleans.

4down is playing right into the teeth of the New Orleans D. When we ran side pick and roll and that motion set tonight, New Orleans didn't know what to do and was giving up a friggin' layup line to us.

We will probably hit enough threes in game 3 to win, but it's fool's gold to think we're going to hit enough to win four of five. If that's your solution, and right now it's clearly Pop's, this team's season is done in the next week.

And it's insanity to keep running the same shit over and over and over again when it isn't working. Our stubborness on offense is reason 1B behind 1A of Bowen on Paul as to why we've gotten our asses handed to us two straight.

You're a smart guy, I can't believe you're view on our offense is simply 'screw it, we live or die by the three', without even entertaining the idea of doing something different on offense than what New Orleans is begging us to do every play.

That's vintage 2001, 2004. And we're headed for the same result.Anything type of motion or pick-and-roll works against the Hornets ... for about two or three plays. And then they just pack the lane more and it becomes ineffective. No motion or pick-and-roll can work when two offensive players are being guarded by four or five defensive players.

You can run four-down, pick-and-rolls, motion or anything else but it'll come down to hitting threes. You might get a layup here and there but against a team that is packing the lane, the only way you unpack the lane is make them pay from deep.

And yeah, I'll take a wide open three over a two man pick-and-roll being guarded by the whole Hornets roster.

[cly2tw]

If the shooting dries up, the Spurs will lose. The Spurs can't win playoff series if they can't shoot.

Part of the problem is the Spurs are facing the exact opposite defense than they saw in the first series against the Suns. The Suns weren't leaving the shooters at all. Now the Hornets are leaving the shooters. The problem is that right now the shooters are out of rhythm.

But if you think there's a way to beat the Hornets right now without stretching the court with some threes, you didn't pay attention enough in 2001 or 2004. Post players who have bricking three-point shooters don't win playoff series. Instead of looking for other ways to attack, stare the troubles in the eyes and show them why the Spurs have collected clutch three-point shooters over the years.

I'll bank on the three-point shooters being able to turn it around. They are missing now but all it takes is one big game where the Spurs blow them out from beyond the arc and the Hornets will have to alter their defense. Duncan and Parker can't do anything right now with the lane packed. The Spurs must space it out with threes.

Forcing it into the paint against a stuffed lane is why the Spurs lost in 2001 and 2004. Trust the shooters to do the job that has them on the roster.


The problem is, NO rotates perfectly after double-teaming TD, so that the shots the shooters get are not that open. This messes up their rhythm, a problem that won't go away as evidenced by 18/60 just by shooting more of them.

I think the Spurs might have to stop swinging the ball midway and have Manu or Parker start driving by the charging rotating defender, in order to gain space for a good shot.

[SPARKY]

CP3 causes the defense to collapse on him when he gets in the paint. That leaves guys like Peja and Mo-Pete wide open regardless of who is assigned to cover them.

Maybe they won't leave.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Anything type of motion or pick-and-roll works against the Hornets ... for about two or three plays. And then they just pack the lane more and it becomes ineffective. No motion or pick-and-roll can work when two offensive players are being guarded by four or five defensive players.

You can run four-down, pick-and-rolls, motion or anything else but it'll come down to hitting threes. You might get a layup here and there but against a team that is packing the lane, the only way you unpack the lane is make them pay from deep.

And yeah, I'll take a wide open three over a two man pick-and-roll being guarded by the whole Hornets roster.

If that's the case why didn't New Orleans adjust to it tonight?

Our shooters are in all out gutless mode (save Barry), nothing's going to change that, and NO knows it.

Forget it, I hope we run 4down the rest of the way. It will free up my evenings starting the middle of next week because the Spurs will be done for the year and we can get on to waiting for the E-N to tell us all about how Stoudemire hosed up the locker room in this series whining about playing time.

[G-Nob]

Maybe they won't leave.

They tried it both ways tonight and were burned both times.

[timvp]

And really, the problem isn't the offense. The defense is getting raped in the second half against the Hornets. The problems right now are about 80% defense and 20% offensive. The Spurs giving up 60 points tonight in the second half is what lost the game.

The Spurs have to hold the Hornets under 90. Take Peja out. Let Thomas guard West. Make CP3 do everything. If he does, you tip your hat and go on vacation. But this gimmick BS on defense is what is killing them. Ginobili can't guard this new confident version of Peja. Parker can't guard Herpes Peterson when he's giving up half a foot and Herpes has CP3 spoonfeeding him.

One defensive switch and the Spurs will go back to the defense that has worked so well in the past. All Pop has to do is look at the 2005 series versus the Suns. Parker guarded the MVP, Bowen shut down the wing player and the Spurs basically swept the Suns. You take Peja out of the equation and suddenly the Hornets offense isn't that intimidating.

[Ice009]

One defensive switch and the Spurs will go back to the defense that has worked so well in the past. All Pop has to do is look at the 2005 series versus the Suns. Parker guarded the MVP, Bowen shut down the wing player and the Spurs basically swept the Suns. You take Peja out of the equation and suddenly the Hornets offense isn't that intimidating.

I am amazed. I thought Bowen would be guarding Peja tonight. I wanted Bowen on Peja in the second half of game 1 and I was shocked to see Pop using Bowen on Paul tonight. What is Pop doing?

the 3rd quarter runs of NO invloved a lot of Peja 3's.

[gobo]

The spurs have worked more with less. That has always amazed me. But now it looks like things are catching up to them. It seems to me that NO is much better team than spurs. I agree with some posters that Manu needs to start in the remaining games. Give more minutes to Barry off the bench. Also, pop should Matt instead of Horry.

[timvp]

I am amazed. I thought Bowen would be guarding Peja tonight. I wanted Bowen on Peja in the second half of game 1 and I was shocked to see Pop using Bowen on Paul tonight. What is Pop doing?

the 3rd quarter runs of NO invloved a lot of Peja 3's.Peja is the difference maker so far in this series. Paul, West, Chandler, Bonzi, Peterson, etc. will all get their points. But you can't have Peja outscoring everyone on the Spurs. Especially when you have the most effective Peja-stopper in NBA history on your team.

[T Park]

And really, the problem isn't the offense. The defense is getting raped in the second half against the Hornets. The problems right now are about 80% defense and 20% offensive. The Spurs giving up 60 points tonight in the second half is what lost the game.

The Spurs have to hold the Hornets under 90. Take Peja out. Let Thomas guard West. Make CP3 do everything. If he does, you tip your hat and go on vacation. But this gimmick BS on defense is what is killing them. Ginobili can't guard this new confident version of Peja. Parker can't guard Herpes Peterson when he's giving up half a foot and Herpes has CP3 spoonfeeding him.

One defensive switch and the Spurs will go back to the defense that has worked so well in the past. All Pop has to do is look at the 2005 series versus the Suns. Parker guarded the MVP, Bowen shut down the wing player and the Spurs basically swept the Suns. You take Peja out of the equation and suddenly the Hornets offense isn't that intimidating.


Bravo, I said that back in February and have been opining for it since.

Take put Peja, you take out the fucking Hornet's offense.

[SPARKY]

Pop is stubborn but he isn't that stubborn. I suspect we'll see the adjustment made and the 3s will fly more quickly in game 3.

[T Park]

Pop is stubborn but he isn't that stubborn. I suspect we'll see the adjustment made and the 3s will fly more quickly in game 3.


I hope your right.

I mean Bud has got to be saying "Pop we've gotta change it up, this is insanity if we keep banging our heads against the wall with this defense."

[Obstructed_View]

Pop is stubborn but he isn't that stubborn.
You haven't been a Spurs fan very long, have you? The more I think about what's being said in this thread the more sure I am that it's exactly what the Spurs need and that it isn't going to happen.

The dog is wandering onto the freeway again, and we're all going to be watching.

[Septic]

It's like Pop has 2 plays in his book. Duncan inside and a kick out to a shotty 3 point shooter when double teamed. THATS FING IT.

I'am going to shit my drawers if bowen takes a dribble and shoots a running jay, Udoka lines up at the 3 point line, or if Duncan catches the ball 12' out of the paint.

[TKG]

Stick Vaughn on Paul and I mean STICK Vaughn on Paul, like fucking glue, don't worry about fouls, don't worry about the rest of the team, just stay the fuck on him (lakers vs. nash). Vaughn is great at harassing and generally plays with a lot of heart(which this team desperately needs). Parker is useless in this series. Paul is walking all over him and he's been iffy offensively. Just stick a bencher in to harasss CP3, stick Bowen on West and let Manu worry about Peja.

[SPARKY]

You haven't been a Spurs fan very long, have you? The more I think about what's being said in this thread the more sure I am that it's exactly what the Spurs need and that it isn't going to happen.

The dog is wandering onto the freeway again, and we're all going to be watching.

I've been a Spurs fan 33 years. How about you?

[SPARKY]

You haven't been a Spurs fan very long, have you? The more I think about what's being said in this thread the more sure I am that it's exactly what the Spurs need and that it isn't going to happen.

The dog is wandering onto the freeway again, and we're all going to be watching.


I hope your right.

I mean Bud has got to be saying "Pop we've gotta change it up, this is insanity if we keep banging our heads against the wall with this defense."

Pop will ditch what isn't working. Spurs in 5.

[Obstructed_View]

I've been a Spurs fan 33 years. How about you?

Then you should remember Pop sticking to smallball when it wasn't working against Dallas, and you should remember Pop sticking to 4 down when the Lakers were aggressively double teaming it to create turnovers and bricked shots. Saying he isn't that stubborn completely flies in the face of history.

I hope you are right. If he does ditch it, the Spurs can get right back into this series.

[T Park]

Yea, Parker definitely looked like he was sick and sounded like it in the postgame too. No excuse though. MJ dropped 50 when he had the flu and he was a lot older at the time than Parker :madrun :lol

Wow so now you expect Parker to equal MJ??

Put down the bong....

[Kori Ellis]

Wow so now you expect Parker to equal MJ??

Put down the bong....

Umm... You don't see this emoticon :lol next to her post.

[Blackjack]

Call me retarded,(I've been called worse) but WTF is Pop thinking??? When this series started I was sure he'd make the stars(Paul and West) beat us scoring in N.O., and the role-players/shooters beat us in S.A.

The thinking being that role players will kill you when they're at home in their comfort zone, so never let them gain any rythym or confidence. Let Paul and West go one on one and if they combined for 70, so be it. They'll have a hard time winning 2 on 5.

Then when the series returns to S.A., Pops big adjustment would be to do everything possible to limit Paul and West, and make the role players beat them. A role players game usually has a hard time translating on the road, and would have been even harder had they not been able to establish any kind of rythym or confidence in games 1 and 2.

But WTF do I know???

[polandprzem]

Wow so now you expect Parker to equal MJ??

Put down the bong....

It's more mental then phisical

[MannyIsGod]

GOD DAMN I HATE THIS SERIES SO FAR!

And yeah, someone please pull Pop's head out of his ass. I can't tell you how pissed I get every fucking time Peja has the ball for an open 3. SO MANY OPEN FUCKING 3s. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[polandprzem]

GOD DAMN I HATE THIS SERIES SO FAR!

And yeah, someone please pull Pop's head out of his ass. I can't tell you how pissed I get every fucking time Peja has the ball for an open 3. SO MANY OPEN FUCKING 3s. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'd rather you stay cool

[ManuTastic]

Finley, Bowen, Manu and Barry can beat you if you leave them open. Those are four of the best postseason three-point shooters in the NBA today.

You aren't confident in those guys hitting wide open threes?

This is really it. NO took out a BILLBOARD before the series started saying they were going to shut down the lane to stop Tim and Tony inside. OK, so in game 1 they did that, and Bruce and Manu were raining 3s. And then Pop has a giant brain fart and forgets that this is actually what he WANTS, and this is what the team was BUILT FOR. So everyone runs around and cries and plays like ass because they're clogging the paint. I mean, WTF?

I really think the Spurs problems are all mental right now. Like, they think they're 'settling' for 3s when they should be slobbering over them. And Pop doesn't have these guys thinking about the game properly. If they were expecting and wanting to take those outside shots, I think they'd be going down better. Right now it's like they don't want to take them.

Also I don't know what sort of weird voodoo curse is on Manu, but he looks like a rookie.

Offense is definitely the problem right now. Just got to recognize the lane is going to be clogged, the outside shots will be there, it's time for our veteran shooters to shine. Got damn it.:ihit

[cjjr72984]

I am amazed. I thought Bowen would be guarding Peja tonight. I wanted Bowen on Peja in the second half of game 1 and I was shocked to see Pop using Bowen on Paul tonight. What is Pop doing?

the 3rd quarter runs of NO invloved a lot of Peja 3's.

It also involved alot of fast-break points and penetration layups by CP3. And that's WITH Bowen guarding him.

Peja has his threes, but it's a product of him being left open because the Spurs defense is forced to collapse on CP3 when he gets to the paint. If Bowen can't stop him, Parker surely couldn't.

[Russ]

Did the Spurs try a zone last night? The Spurs have played it before in the postseason and a zone might be the perfect solution to the CP3/West show.

Or maybe a box and 1 with Bowen on Peja (sounds crazy, but I think the Spurs need to mix up their defensive looks and take the initiative on that end of the floor).

[degenerate_gambler]

Did the Spurs try a zone last night? The Spurs have played it before in the postseason and a zone might be the perfect solution to the CP3/West show.


Spurs playing zone is a bad sign.

[florige]

If they start game 3 with Finley on Peja again I don't know how I'm going to be able toget thru it. I really don't.

[wireonfire]

Bowen owns Stojakovic dude. Parker's a solid defender at the PG; I don't understand why he's not on Paul. Finley on Stojakovic is a fucking joke.

The spurs should study how Battier defended Peja. I believe Peja shot about 30% against the rockets in their 4 games this season.

[Das Texan]

I nearly threw my tv out the window with that bullshit in game 2.


Let's just go with what we know works. Peja will be a non factor once Pop gets it through his thick skull to put Bowen on him. Paul is gonna score, nothing you can do about that, just put the underrated defender Tony on him and lets just see what happens. Kurt can handle West, he did a decent enough job in game 2, he should have been playing more anyway.

Got damnit Pop stop coaching like you are a fucking rookie.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The spurs should study how Battier defended Peja. I believe Peja shot about 30% against the rockets in their 4 games this season.


The Spurs don't need to study shit about Peja, they just need for Pop to pull his head out of his ass and put Bowen on him.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I nearly threw my tv out the window with that bullshit in game 2.


Let's just go with what we know works. Peja will be a non factor once Pop gets it through his thick skull to put Bowen on him. Paul is gonna score, nothing you can do about that, just put the underrated defender Tony on him and lets just see what happens. Kurt can handle West, he did a decent enough job in game 2, he should have been playing more anyway.

Got damnit Pop stop coaching like you are a fucking rookie.


The greater irony here is that Pop's decision to put Bowen on Paul (and the three mismatches it has created) has resulted in Paul, Peterson, and Peja all scoring above their season averages so far in this series.

Isn't it supposed to go the other way, Popobitch?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Did the Spurs try a zone last night? The Spurs have played it before in the postseason and a zone might be the perfect solution to the CP3/West show.

Or maybe a box and 1 with Bowen on Peja (sounds crazy, but I think the Spurs need to mix up their defensive looks and take the initiative on that end of the floor).

We tried zone in the fourth, Paul clowned us.

[FromWayDowntown]

I would give a damn who was assigned the task of defending Peja if anyone was actually guarding him.

On every one of his 3's last night, the image in my head was that of some Spur sprinting to get over and contest the shot.

Pop could put the lovechild of Bill Russell and Michael Jordan "on" Peja and it won't matter if that guy doesn't stay home and deny good looks to Peja.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I would give a damn who was assigned the task of defending Peja if anyone was actually guarding him.

On every one of his 3's last night, the image in my head was that of some Spur sprinting to get over and contest the shot.

Pop could put the lovechild of Bill Russell and Michael Jordan "on" Peja and it won't matter if that guy doesn't stay home and deny good looks to Peja.

But that's just it. Finley hasn't defended anyone in a month, yet right now in Pop's looney bin defense we're asking him to check Peja. :lol

Maybe Pop can move him over to Paul next...

[slayermin]

Shit, if Pop doesn't look at the stat sheet and notices that Stojakovic only averages 12.9 points against the Spurs for his career, then we deserve to lose this series. It's as simple as that. Not locking Peja down with Bruce is dumb.

I agree with timvp. It's not the offense, it's the defense. Udoka did a nice job on Bonzi but as soon as Wells leaves the game, take out Ime. His playoff IQ and shooting isn't ready for this level.

Eerily, I am not worried even though our season comes down to game three on Thursday. Every great team has been tested to it's limits at one point or another. This is an opportunity for the Spurs to exorcise past ghosts and demons forever. Spurs have never come back from an 0-2 deficit and they have never repeated as champions.

We might as well do both in bringing home number five.

[FromWayDowntown]

But that's just it. Finley hasn't defended anyone in a month, yet right now in Pop's looney bin defense we're asking him to check Peja. :lol

Maybe Pop can move him over to Paul next...

See, I'd be less worried if Finley had actually been in the picture on those shots. At least there would have been a chance for the Spurs to get a hand in Peja's face. Instead, the defense seems to be collapsing on Paul's penetration, leaving it for guys like Parker to rotate to Peja, which is a defensive strategy that works only if you're lucky and Peja misses.

I suppose it's the theme of the thread, but I think the Spurs are beyond having a means to stop Paul in this series. I think their best bet is to devote a great deal of attention to the "other" guys and take their chances with Paul in one-on-one situations. I actually thought that was what Pop would do entering the series and I was shocked to see Bowen on Paul to open Game 1. Make Paul a one-dimensional guy who scores and you have a chance; allow him to be a scorer (he's going to do that anyway) and a distributor (he's shredding the Spurs by forcing the defense to account so significantly for his penetration that his teammates are getting gimme looks at the rim) and you're dead.

[Spurminator]

I think on the last three pointer Peja hit, he was open for about ten seconds while Manu was under the basket double teaming Tyson Chandler. I think Bowen on Peja is a good call at this point, but if we're going to be leaving another Hornet wide open all game then he's going to kill us like Peja did.

[DDS4]

Stop chasing CP through pic-n-rolls and go underneath. Make him a shooter. If he makes 3's all over the place, I can live with that. IF CP and West are the only scorers on that team, we have a chance.

Leaving Peja alone while he brews up a cup of tea in the corner is unforgivable.

[SPARKY]

See, I'd be less worried if Finley had actually been in the picture on those shots. At least there would have been a chance for the Spurs to get a hand in Peja's face. Instead, the defense seems to be collapsing on Paul's penetration, leaving it for guys like Parker to rotate to Peja, which is a defensive strategy that works only if you're lucky and Peja misses.

I suppose it's the theme of the thread, but I think the Spurs are beyond having a means to stop Paul in this series. I think their best bet is to devote a great deal of attention to the "other" guys and take their chances with Paul in one-on-one situations. I actually thought that was what Pop would do entering the series and I was shocked to see Bowen on Paul to open Game 1. Make Paul a one-dimensional guy who scores and you have a chance; allow him to be a scorer (he's going to do that anyway) and a distributor (he's shredding the Spurs by forcing the defense to account so significantly for his penetration that his teammates are getting gimme looks at the rim) and you're dead.

Exactly. By not putting Bowen on Predrag and putting Tony on Peterson you're putting yourself behind the 8 ball defensively from the start.

I would think by now Pop should be satisfied that his initial defensive strategy will not work.

[1Parker1]

What's interesting is that Manu looks like a defensive liability in this game and his offense and other "intangibles" isn't balancing it out. He can't guard Peja, he can't guard Paul, and he can't guard Bonzi Wells.

[SPARKY]

Stop chasing CP through pic-n-rolls and go underneath. Make him a shooter. If he makes 3's all over the place, I can live with that. IF CP and West are the only scorers on that team, we have a chance.

Leaving Peja alone while he brews up a cup of tea in the corner is unforgivable.

Exactly. The last time the Spurs beat the Hornets this season, Bowen was on Predrag. Not sure how Pop managed to talk himself out of that.

[slayermin]

I think Bowen on Peja is a good call at this point, but if we're going to be leaving another Hornet wide open all game then he's going to kill us like Peja did.

Maybe leaving Morris Peterson wide open will hurt but even he isn't as automatic as Peja Stojakovic.

[SPARKY]

What's interesting is that Manu looks like a defensive liability in this game and his offense and other "intangibles" isn't balancing it out. He can't guard Peja, he can't guard Paul, and he can't guard Bonzi Wells.

He can guard Peterson. I think you start Manu and then bring Barry off the bench. Maybe Finley can turn it around in SA, but I'm not seeing it.

[timvp]

He can guard Peterson. I think you start Manu and then bring Barry off the bench. Maybe Finley can turn it around in SA, but I'm not seeing it.Good point and that's another reason to start Manu. You want Manu to be able to hide against Peterson. You don't want to bring Manu off the bench and then match him up with Bonzi. The more Manu can be on the court against Peterson, the better.

[G-Nob]

I can't agree with this thread title more and if Pop doesn't adopt it in Game 3, I love him but, he needs to step down.

[FromWayDowntown]

I realize that some still blame him for it, but Pop did show a willingness to morph his use of the roster to meet the demands imposed by a particular opponent in 2006 and I think it is time for him to revisit that openness now.

[pauls931]

Here's my take. The Spurs age is finally showing up. They're designed to take out the toughest team which the probably thought was Phoenix/Lakers. They seem to get by in the first half of games, then get blown out. A huge difference I notice from round 1 is NO's defense is about 100 times better than the Suns. I lost count of how many layups parker got in round one and can count the layups he got in this series on one hand.

The Spurs tried to hustle, but they don't have the endurance to hustle at NO's level for 4 quarters. They may be better experience and strategy wise, but age is finally catching up to them this time around.

[jbspurs]

IMO, I think we just need to double team CP3 to get the ball out of his hand, let others do the play making. We need to give them the dose of their own medicine. We can't afford to play one on one defense on CP3, we need to apply pressure on him the whole time, double team triple team, make it hard for him to make plays for his teammates. On offense, please no more one on one move! we need motion offense. No more faking 3's just pass the ball and shoot when open.

[SPARKY]

Here's my take. The Spurs age is finally showing up. They're designed to take out the toughest team which the probably thought was Phoenix/Lakers. They seem to get by in the first half of games, then get blown out. A huge difference I notice from round 1 is NO's defense is about 100 times better than the Suns. I lost count of how many layups parker got in round one and can count the layups he got in this series on one hand.

The Spurs tried to hustle, but they don't have the endurance to hustle at NO's level for 4 quarters. They may be better experience and strategy wise, but age is finally catching up to them this time around.

It's not "age", it's defensive matchups. Anyways, the Spurs' Big 3 isn't even the oldest out of the remaining playoff teams. Poor take.

[pauls931]

It's not "age", it's defensive matchups. Anyways, the Spurs' Big 3 isn't even the oldest out of the remaining playoff teams. Poor take.

Take parker out and the average age of the starters is around 45 or so. Sub in Horry/Barry and they qualify for social security.

[Obstructed_View]

I realize that some still blame him for it, but Pop did show a willingness to morph his use of the roster to meet the demands imposed by a particular opponent in 2006 and I think it is time for him to revisit that openness now.

He didn't "morph" anything. He benched both centers for the entire remainder of the series. He put Oberto ahead of both of them in the rotation. He never used them, even when the Dallas offense was scoring at will in the paint.

Let's not forget that he was completely changin the rotation of a 63 win team supposedly to to "match up" with two teams that weren't as good. There's an argument to be made that it was a good idea against Artest and Wells, but there was no reason to do it against Dallas.

I have zero faith in Pop to make a smart decision. The only one he's made in the last three years was putting JV under the basket against Phoenix so they couldn't leave him alone.

[SPARKY]

Take parker out and the average age of the starters is around 45 or so. Sub in Horry/Barry and they qualify for social security.

Duncan and Ginobili are both younger than Nash and Shaq. Try again.

[pauls931]

Duncan and Ginobili are both younger than Nash and Shaq. Try again.

Did I say Phoenix was young?

[SPARKY]

Did I say Phoenix was young?

Were they not a "contender"? The eldest of the Spurs' Big 3 is 32. Oh noes.

[Teal Street]

I can see where the Bowen on Peja would make sense but if you put TP on Chris he is going to be so worn out chasing that little man all around because most of the time going the other way Pargo is guarding Tony. So TP will tire a great deal for his defense and then he is affected on offense

[SPARKY]

I can see where the Bowen on Peja would make sense but if you put TP on Chris he is going to be so worn out chasing that little man all around because most of the time going the other way Pargo is guarding Tony. So TP will tire a great deal for his defense and then he is affected on offense

Pargo and Paul backcourt for extended minutes? Good.

[td4mvp21]

I can see where the Bowen on Peja would make sense but if you put TP on Chris he is going to be so worn out chasing that little man all around because most of the time going the other way Pargo is guarding Tony. So TP will tire a great deal for his defense and then he is affected on offense

We want Chris Paul to do everything. In the two games the Spurs won against the Hornets this season, Paul was the leading scorer in both and took the most shots in both (except he took two less than West, 17-15 in one of the games). Everyone else on that team was shut the fuck down. And surprisingly, the Spurs WON both of those games! Paul needs to be a scorer for the Spurs to win. I know he's great but he can't do it all by himself. The Spurs have the equipment to shut down everybody on the Hornets except Paul. These are a must, I'm just hoping Pop does it. He's too fucking stubborn sometimes....

[CP3forMVP]

When paul decides to turn up his play he is unguardable, when he is on he will score everytime. He does thing nba fans would never dream of being done. And as we've seen in the mavs and this series you can't double him because
1) he'll split the double team or get away from it.
2) the hornets have a selection of guys that will mostly always hit the open shot.

so what are you to do? You have to really get in his head, he's only a third year player so you can get into his head, play up on him tough and hope he doesn't go on a hotstreak like he often does. I believe he is one of them people that you would have to say "You can't stop him, you can only hope to contain him."

[Kori Ellis]

Why is Utah so effective in slowing him down? Does Deron Williams just use his weight advantage? Do they double hard?

[CP3forMVP]

Personally i think the only reason utah has our number is because paul tries to hard, it's not a weight or strength thing because there are plenty of strong pgs in the league that don't make issues for cp3. It just seems like cp want's to outplay him everytime and he plays out of himself. Chris played hornets basketball one time this season against the jazz and we were blowing them out, i think it was a 24 point halftime lead (don't take my word for it) but he went right back to the showing up deron williams act and they came back. luckily we still got the win.

[FromWayDowntown]

I still think that the way you deal with Paul is by enticing him to become a scorer by negating his teammates as much as possible. The Hornets are beatable if it's just Paul and West who are playing well. They become nearly unbeatable if they get solid or big contributions from Peja AND one other player.

I think the other thing the Spurs HAVE to do in the next few games is really attack Chandler. He'll block some shots, but he'll also get himself into foul trouble if you go right at him and make him work to do something other than be a weakside shot blocker.

[CP3forMVP]

People underestimate the hornets, your not gonna shut down everyone. They have so many scoring options.

[Kori Ellis]

Personally i think the only reason utah has our number is because paul tries to hard, it's not a weight or strength thing because there are plenty of strong pgs in the league that don't make issues for cp3. It just seems like cp want's to outplay him everytime and he plays out of himself. Chris played hornets basketball one time this season against the jazz and we were blowing them out, i think it was a 24 point halftime lead (don't take my word for it) but he went right back to the showing up deron williams act and they came back. luckily we still got the win.

He shot like 30% and averaged 14 ppg against the Jazz this year. That's why I was wondering if they do something different against him.

[Kori Ellis]

People underestimate the hornets, your not gonna shut down everyone. They have so many scoring options.

I don't think anyone thinks they are going to shut everyone down. But you can definitely slow some of them more. The Hornets are good but they aren't invincible.

[FromWayDowntown]

People underestimate the hornets, your not gonna shut down everyone. They have so many scoring options.

Right, but thinking that you can simply rotate back to Peja at the three point line is a recipe for disaster. I think you dare Paul and West to score 70 by committing to take away the uncontested jump shots from Peja, Peterson, Pargo, and Wells. It might be that a zone look is a good bet; it might be that a hard man-to-man approach at the three point line will work -- whatever the choice is, you HAVE to take away something.

Given that Peja is killing the Spurs from behind the arc, I'd say that the first place to try to get some relief is by denying him looks from distance. Commit to sticking to Peja in transition; don't give help on Paul or West from Peja. If the Hornets want to go to pick-and-roll games with Peja, switch everything and contest him off the screen. Again, it's about taking away something.

[1Parker1]

Peja is shooting 60% from behind the arc this postseason. :wow And he looks like a compltely different player when Ginobili is on him, he's confident in his midrange shot and taking it to the basket, which hasn't always been his strong suit.

I also agree with whoever (FWD?) said that Spurs need to attack Tyson Chandler. He often commits bad fouls and they should try to get him in foul trouble as much as possible.

Also, you can't always rely on David West to go 4-11 or whatever for 10 points. He's going to bounce back and CP3 is always going to be able to do his thing, he's pretty much unguardable for the Spurs. That's why Spurs need to do their best in shutting everyone else down. I'm just surprised Pop and the coaching staff didn't see this before Game 1.

[CP3forMVP]

Paul and West are obv. the hornets 2 of the hornets top 3 scoring options. luckily, for yall Pargo hasn't gotten hot like in the dallas series. Then i think i would say yall are in deep deep trouble.

[SPARKY]

The Hornets are the bestest ever. They will win 10 championships.

[FromWayDowntown]

For a guy who wanted to talk about basketball, there doesn't seem to be much dialogue happening here. A lot of: here's what the Spurs should do, followed by a lot of: the Hornets are just too good.

[CP3forMVP]

are you talking about me?

[1Parker1]

are you talking about me?

No, the guy behind you....


:lol

[SPARKY]

are you talking about me?

Nah man, we're talking about Dizzy Fucking Gillespie.

[Obstructed_View]

"basketball talk" = blowing sunshine up the Hornets' ass because they won two games at home.

[CP3forMVP]

i'm just saying what i believe in. never knew that was against the law. if yall put pressure on cp3 then the other guys will hurt you, and the spurs will not when. its common sense really.

[Obstructed_View]

i'm just saying what i believe in. never knew that was against the law. if yall put pressure on cp3 then the other guys will hurt you, and the spurs will not when. its common sense really.

It's not against the law, but don't bitch about a lack of basketball talk when you come into a matchup thread and "the spurs will not when" is the best you can bring.

[Obstructed_View]

I say let Chris Paul put up Amare's points and Nash's assists. The Spurs have won that way before.

[FromWayDowntown]

i'm just saying what i believe in. never knew that was against the law. if yall put pressure on cp3 then the other guys will hurt you, and the spurs will not when. its common sense really.

Right. So you really didn't want to talk basketball -- you wanted Spurs fans to talk basketball and then wanted to just say "There's no way the Spurs can beat the Hornets. The Hornets are just too good."

As someone around here once said:

good talk.

[td4mvp21]

Right. So you really didn't want to talk basketball -- you wanted Spurs fans to talk basketball and then wanted to just say "There's no way the Spurs can beat the Hornets. The Hornets are just too good."

As someone around here once said:

good talk.

Oh but the Hornets are invincible. It's not like the Spurs had a flawed defensive plan or missed WIDE OPEN SHOTS. Or lead at the half of both games. Or anything like that. Nope. The Spurs can't hang with the Hornets. Neither can any other team.

[Obstructed_View]

Pargo and Paul backcourt for extended minutes? Good.

Yeah, I agree. That's a matchup problem I'd like to see the Hornets put themselves in.

[barbacoataco]

I think the Spurs need to contain Peja. West and Paul will score, but so do Amare and Nash. I was surprised how well Thomas defended West in game 2.

I think the Spurs bigger problems are on the offensive end. They are not hitting open jump shots, which they see a lot because of double teaming Duncan. To me this means more Barry, less Udoka, and pray Finley gets hot.

[Obstructed_View]

It's all about points per possession, and three point shots negate good defense. Limit the three point shooters and even if the Spurs play badly, as they have in the first two games, the Hornets are within striking distance in the fourth quarter.

[CP3forMVP]

how hard is it for yall to understand? im not saying yall can't beat the hornets. i'm saying if yall put alot of effort into shuttin down paul then the rest of our team will beat yall. it's the same as any other team, if you put alot of effort to guard there star player then if he has a good supporting cast then they will beat you.

[SPARKY]

how hard is it for yall to understand? im not saying yall can't beat the hornets. i'm saying if yall put alot of effort into shuttin down paul then the rest of our team will beat yall. it's the same as any other team, if you put alot of effort to guard there star player then if he has a good supporting cast then they will beat you.

' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '

[td4mvp21]

how hard is it for yall to understand? im not saying yall can't beat the hornets. i'm saying if yall put alot of effort into shuttin down paul then the rest of our team will beat yall. it's the same as any other team, if you put alot of effort to guard there star player then if he has a good supporting cast then they will beat you.

WE KNOW, that's what's been happening. We are saying the Spurs need to focus on everyone else and make him be the scorer.

[Obstructed_View]

how hard is it for yall to understand? im not saying yall can't beat the hornets. i'm saying if yall put alot of effort into shuttin down paul then the rest of our team will beat yall. it's the same as any other team, if you put alot of effort to guard there star player then if he has a good supporting cast then they will beat you.

You really need to read the title of this thread and think about what it means.

[td4mvp21]

You really need to read the title of this thread and think about what it means.

This entire thread is about how the Spurs need to quit focusing on Paul :lol

[baseline bum]

Bump

P. Stojakovic
MINUTES: 35:31
FG-FGA: 2-7
3FG - 3FGA: 1-3
PTS: 8

Thank you, Pop!

[ducks]

did he not get 3 of those points from the stripe

[bonzi_isaspurskiller]

bowen definitely gives pedja some fits

[Manu20]

Rinse & Repeat

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Bump

P. Stojakovic
MINUTES: 35:31
FG-FGA: 2-7
3FG - 3FGA: 1-3
PTS: 8

Thank you, Pop!

Spurstalk, we know stuff :tu

(and two of those were on FTs on that BS foul call in the fourth away from the ball when Peja flopped)

[Trainwreck2100]

how hard is it for yall to understand? im not saying yall can't beat the hornets. i'm saying if yall put alot of effort into shuttin down paul then the rest of our team will beat yall. it's the same as any other team, if you put alot of effort to guard there star player then if he has a good supporting cast then they will beat you.


They didn't guard him for shit

[SPARKY]

Pop reads ST.

[Obstructed_View]

Spurstalk, we know stuff :tu

(and two of those were on FTs on that BS foul call in the fourth away from the ball when Peja flopped)

Do you mean when he threw three elbows at Bowen's head and Bowen got whistled for it or are you talking about another play I don't remember?

[MannyIsGod]

Do you mean when he threw three elbows at Bowen's head and Bowen got whistled for it or are you talking about another play I don't remember?

that call tilted me so hard.

[Obstructed_View]

that call tilted me so hard.

I went back and watched that three or four times, and I couldn't see anything Bowen did. Peja got frustrated (understandably at being shut down) and the refs rewarded him based I suppose on Bowen's reputation. Really shoddy reffing. When the game gets chippy it seems like the refs will crack down on the Spurs to calm the other team down, because they know the Spurs aren't going to lose their cool. Maddening.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Do you mean when he threw three elbows at Bowen's head and Bowen got whistled for it or are you talking about another play I don't remember?

That was the one. Ted Kennedy should be fired for that sequence.

[Obstructed_View]

That was the one. Ted Kennedy should be fired for that sequence.

Yeah, I agree. Peja dislodged Bruce in the post earlier and Bruce got called for that one as well, but it literally looked like Peja was trying to start a fight with Bowen.

[ballhog]

If you watched Peja much, he looked like he was pretty frustrated w/ Bowen by the end of the game and pretty much gave up. I wonder what adjustments they'll make?

[LoveTheGame]

This game was a CP show, I would hope this will not continue, if id does, Spurs will take the series.

CP is amazing, he can score with ease but it hurts Hornets when he goes in this mode. He is young, he is amazing, and it could get to him. Trouble is neither he nor any player can win games on their own.

Peja got 7 shots, MoPete 3. Bowen has always done good job on Peja but not that good. It is not even the issue of how well Bowen guards Peja it is about keeping team energized. NO defense collapsed. The aggressiveness of rotation on outside shooter was not there, they made shots, lanes opened up. Spurs scored their way to victory, an unlikely strategy.

No doubt that keeping Bowen on Peja is the right thing to do. What Pop did in first 2 games was retarded. This way Spurs have better chance of getting into CP head than trying to have him be frustrated by Bowen, which he never was.

Spurs will teach NO a lesson in my estimation, no matter who wins in the end. CP must learn what are both his team and his own limitations.

[oboymeetsogirl]

This game was a CP show, I would hope this will not continue, if id does, Spurs will take the series.

CP is amazing, he can score with ease but it hurts Hornets when he goes in this mode. He is young, he is amazing, and it could get to him. Trouble is neither he nor any player can win games on their own.

Peja got 7 shots, MoPete 3. Bowen has always done good job on Peja but not that good. It is not even the issue of how well Bowen guards Peja it is about keeping team energized. NO defense collapsed. The aggressiveness of rotation on outside shooter was not there, they made shots, lanes opened up. Spurs scored their way to victory, an unlikely strategy.

No doubt that keeping Bowen on Peja is the right thing to do. What Pop did in first 2 games was retarded. This way Spurs have better chance of getting into CP head than trying to have him be frustrated by Bowen, which he never was.

Spurs will teach NO a lesson in my estimation, no matter who wins in the end. CP must learn what are both his team and his own limitations.

Very astute... wish more fans were as intelligent. The next game will be even more interesting because not only will CP3 go back to square one, and try to get the rest of his team in rhythm, but also because Timmy and Manu will have had a chance to recover from their various ailments that made them a step slower than the young, energetic Hornets during the first two games.

The Hornets will not only be facing a more spry "old" team, but also one that has exposed a couple of the Hornets' weaknesses (and in a way, a team's strength -- like the play of an all-star -- can be a weakness, as was so aptly pointed out).

[Brutalis]

This game was a CP show, I would hope this will not continue, if id does, Spurs will take the series.

CP is amazing, he can score with ease but it hurts Hornets when he goes in this mode. He is young, he is amazing, and it could get to him. Trouble is neither he nor any player can win games on their own.

Peja got 7 shots, MoPete 3. Bowen has always done good job on Peja but not that good. It is not even the issue of how well Bowen guards Peja it is about keeping team energized. NO defense collapsed. The aggressiveness of rotation on outside shooter was not there, they made shots, lanes opened up. Spurs scored their way to victory, an unlikely strategy.

No doubt that keeping Bowen on Peja is the right thing to do. What Pop did in first 2 games was retarded. This way Spurs have better chance of getting into CP head than trying to have him be frustrated by Bowen, which he never was.

Spurs will teach NO a lesson in my estimation, no matter who wins in the end. CP must learn what are both his team and his own limitations.

:wow:toast

As my friend said, CP has to do this in the real world, too. And we will see in game 4 who will probably win the series..

[MannyIsGod]

This game was a CP show, I would hope this will not continue, if id does, Spurs will take the series.

CP is amazing, he can score with ease but it hurts Hornets when he goes in this mode. He is young, he is amazing, and it could get to him. Trouble is neither he nor any player can win games on their own.

Peja got 7 shots, MoPete 3. Bowen has always done good job on Peja but not that good. It is not even the issue of how well Bowen guards Peja it is about keeping team energized. NO defense collapsed. The aggressiveness of rotation on outside shooter was not there, they made shots, lanes opened up. Spurs scored their way to victory, an unlikely strategy.

No doubt that keeping Bowen on Peja is the right thing to do. What Pop did in first 2 games was retarded. This way Spurs have better chance of getting into CP head than trying to have him be frustrated by Bowen, which he never was.

Spurs will teach NO a lesson in my estimation, no matter who wins in the end. CP must learn what are both his team and his own limitations.

Yes, that good. Look at some of the previous lines when its been Bowen v Peja. Bowen shuts down shooters like no other.

[td4mvp21]

Yes, that good. Look at some of the previous lines when its been Bowen v Peja. Bowen shuts down shooters like no other.

Peja=Bowen's bitch