Pop Quiz: A poll for Liberals

[RandomGuy]

Is it logical to conclude that supporters of the administration are lying about the adminstration when they say something good about the Bush administration?

This is a mirror image of the pop quiz for conservatives.

[RandomGuy]

This poll is a mirror image poll of the one for conservatives. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94451)

[clambake]

i don't know any liberals.

[PixelPusher]

No.

"lying" suggests a conscious intent to deceive, you have to allow that some partisans actually believe the BS they espouse.

[RandomGuy]

No.

"lying" suggests a conscious intent to deceive, you have to allow that some partisans actually believe the BS they espouse.

The question is not whether the person thinks they are lying or not, it is whether the person talking actually IS lying.

[RandomGuy]

i don't know any liberals.

I do. Quite a few of them, actually. Know a few libertarians, and a conservative or two. I tell them all why they are wrong. HA!

Just call me a militant moderate. :lol

[RandomGuy]

... although I am a liberal to most people who call themselves conservative...



...and a conservative to some who call themselves liberal...

[PixelPusher]

The question is not whether the person thinks they are lying or not, it is whether the person talking actually IS lying.

Lie:
intransitive verb 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2 : to create a false or misleading impression transitive verb : to bring about by telling lies <lied his way out of trouble>

If a little kid tells you he got a shiny new quarter from the tooth fairy last night, he isn't "lying", he's misinformed.

[RandomGuy]

Lie:
intransitive verb 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2 : to create a false or misleading impression transitive verb : to bring about by telling lies <lied his way out of trouble>

If a little kid tells you he got a shiny new quarter from the tooth fairy last night, he isn't "lying", he's misinformed.

You are getting into diffrent kinds of lies.

If I don't know that something is false, and simply parrot something I read by someone else, that could still be a lie by most standards.

There is a whole part of philosophy that ponders this. Fascinating stuff.

[RandomGuy]

Lie:
intransitive verb 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2 : to create a false or misleading impression transitive verb : to bring about by telling lies <lied his way out of trouble>

If a little kid tells you he got a shiny new quarter from the tooth fairy last night, he isn't "lying", he's misinformed.

But in this case, either usage will do.

I have no doubt that Bush opponents make shit up. How much and how often is another matter.

As it is, I think the poll question is still a good one.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I voted no because there are conservatives that aren't bushbots..(see xray and yoni as example of bushbots)

[xrayzebra]

Just call me a militant moderate. :lol

Or a person with no opinion on anything and cant really
make a decision for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

[RandomGuy]

Or a person with no opinion on anything and cant really
make a decision for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

I hurt people's feelings all the time, you girly-man. (j/k)

I used to play an online military combat game as a team leader. Since membership in the team was voluntary, and members could leave at any time for any reason. In making strategic decisions, I took feedback from the entire team.

Often, I would be leaning for/against a specific strategic decision, and would make adjustments based on what the consensus of the team was.

BUT

There were quite a few times where my decisions tended to go against the ultimate grain of what the majority of the team wanted.

None of them got pissy or left the team when this happened, because they knew that I listened and took their thoughts/opinions into account before making the decisions, even if they didn't agree with them.

Don't underestimate the value of at least listening to people. There is a big difference between taking in all sides of an argument and worrying overmuch about hurting feelings.

Sometimes decisions must be made. I know you are just giving me a bit of semi-serious grief, but please don't ever think I can't make a hard call for worrying about other people's feelings.

Respectfully,
RG

p.s. you idiot :p:

[RobinsontoDuncan]

i voted yes. If the question had be is it logical to assume x republican is lying if he or she said y, then i would have voted no. My problem with the Bush administration and its supporters is that they tend to rely heavily on misinformation and half truths--more so than any other politician (with the exception of Nixon) that I can think of

[Don Quixote]

Or a person with no opinion on anything and cant really
make a decision for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

This thread is for liberals only! We need to get out!

[RandomGuy]

i voted yes. If the question had be is it logical to assume x republican is lying if he or she said y, then i would have voted no. My problem with the Bush administration and its supporters is that they tend to rely heavily on misinformation and half truths--more so than any other politician (with the exception of Nixon) that I can think of

It is still not entirely logical to assume they are lying.

A habitual liar might be telling the truth when he says that sticking your head in a wood chipper might hurt a little.

I do take much of what the administration says with a grain of salt, because I have caught a LOT of those lies with just a little bit of digging.

The administration pattern is exactly as you say, they don't outright tell you that blue is orange, but they do only give you half the truth on such a consistant basis, that one might think they are taking a page out of Goebbels' playbook when it comes to propaganda, i.e. lie with just a little bit of truth to get the easily suckered to go along.

I do make a distinction between making a case for your cause and outright lying. It is possible to simply make a case and gloss over the facts in any argument that don't 100% support your case, but in the case of this administration I have seen a level of half-truths, outright igonorance, and obfuscation that makes me embarassed at times to be an American.

We can do better than this administration.

[RandomGuy]

Funny thing about this poll is that the liberals seemed to be better at knowing the rules of logical arguments than conservatives. Interesting. ;)