Stern to Review Successful Hack a Shaq strategy...

[Kermit]

How about hiring him a free-throw coach.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3386266

NBA commissioner David Stern said Wednesday that the league will consider changing its rules on fouls away from the basketball in addition to reviewing the use of replay for game clock malfunctions when the competition committee meets in Orlando at the end of the month.


Speaking to reporters at the Staples Center before he presented the Most Valuable Player award to Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, Stern said, "I think there are two subjects that are going to get some attention by the competition committee. No. 1 is review on clock situations. And No. 2 is the whole intentional fouls away from the play etc. I don't know what the results will be in each one, but I think those are worthy of some considered attention."

Both issues have come to the forefront in the playoffs. In the first round, the San Antonio Spurs made extensive use of the Hack-a-Shaq tactic, repeatedly fouling Phoenix Suns center Shaquille O'Neal away from the ball to send him to the free-throw line. While the Suns questioned the aesthetics of the strategy, they admitted it affected them by disrupting the tempo of the game -- and O'Neal shot only 50 percent from the line in the series.

Stern indicated he had a problem with "the idea that, 'Hey, look at me, I'm going to hit this guy as soon as the ball goes into play, even though he's standing under the other basket.' I think that conversation has been started again, by the media, by fans etc. We're going to look at it again."

His comments about clock reviews echoed those made by NBA president Joel Litvin in a statement in which he admitted a 3-pointer by Detroit's Chauncey Billups at the end of the third quarter of Game 2 against the Orlando Magic should not have counted. With 5.1 second remaining, the Pistons inbounded the ball on the far end of the court, and the clock froze at 4.8 seconds as Billups dribbled upcourt. Litvin said the play took 5.7 seconds, meaning the buzzer should have sounded before the shot went up.

Under current rules the play was not reviewable because officials are allowed to use replay only if a shot went in and the clock expires. If the use of replay were expanded, Stern said, "We'd have to actually have the timing synched over the video, so that going to the video was really a slam dunk, so to speak. We would have to be persuaded that we could time code the video in real time."

In other topics, Stern disputed the notion that NBA players' participation in international competition takes an excessive toll on their bodies. Lakers Coach Phil Jackson brought up the subject earlier in the evening when asked about Bryant's Olympic duties this summer.

"The rest and recuperation that they can get in the offseason is really critical to players," Jackson said. "We've joined world basketball in this cause to chase whatever."

J.A. Adande is the author of "The Best Los Angeles Sports Arguments." He joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here to e-mail J.A.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Maybe he should stfu and review pushing refs and face fouls.

[Mister Sinister]

Oh what the fuck is this? Are we the first team in NBA Playoff history to have ever used this tactic?

[Gino]

Its a smart move by the Spurs, but bad for the league.

Stern would be smart to change it. Not just for Shaq, but for everyone.

[ClingingMars]

once again, the league tries to change the rules to do away with the Spurs

:rolleyes

- Mars

[shelshor]

Not to mention reviewing referee performance, losing the inept and getting some of the guys up from the D-League who can call a game the same on both ends

[YoMamaIsCallin]

What people forget is that the hack-a-shaq issue was already addressed. They added the rule that in the last 2 minutes of either half, a foul away from the ball gives you one shot and the ball. This was done in the Chamberlain era, before "Hack-a-Shaq" was coined. (I guess it would have been "Whack-a-Wilt" ??) It was exactly the same situation. Wilt shot right around 50% on free throws, as does Shaq.

Why people think this is some new atrocity started by the Spurs is beyond me. Don Nelson used it extensively and no one changed the rules. I guess now that it's the evil Spurs doing it to the golden boy Suns, we have to change the rules, AGAIN.

What are they going to do... make intentional fouls off the ball ALWAYS one shot and the ball? Extend it to the last 5 minutes of each half?

Maybe teams should just not depend on behemoths with no actual basketball skills more than 3 feet from the basket?

[JamStone]

Pop exploited the strategy when he did it in every single quarter once the Spurs got in the penalty and either Shaq or Skinner were in the game. The strategy may have been used all the way back to Wilt Chamberlain, but I doubt it was ever used as extensively. I don't like the strategy but I had no problem with Pop using it while it's well within the rules as they are currently constructed. But, I do think it takes away from the game and the spirit of competition.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Oh what the fuck is this? Are we the first team in NBA Playoff history to have ever used this tactic?

fo dang sho!

[Gino]

Pop exploited the strategy when he did it in every single quarter once the Spurs got in the penalty and either Shaq or Skinner were in the game. The strategy may have been used all the way back to Wilt Chamberlain, but I doubt it was ever used as extensively. I don't like the strategy but I had no problem with Pop using it while it's well within the rules as they are currently constructed. But, I do think it takes away from the game and the spirit of competition.

Perfect post. :toast

[spurscenter]

why doesnt Stern go after

BIASED REFS and his tactics to decide games via refs.

[beachwood]

Are they going to make changes by how teams execute the pick n' roll too since Snaq can't guard it?

[bulletedge]

I wish they would review the whole bogus "I can't possibly stop you so I am going to fall down and hope for a whistle", i.e.- flopping.

We have Dean Smith to thank for making the incessant attempt to draw offensive fouls a part of the game. College got rid of his four corners offense by finally adopting a shot clock. Now the NBA (and the NCAA for that matter) ought to address the whole flopping fiasco.

Talk about things that disrupt the flow of the game.

As long as I am on a roll- they also need to look at shooters initiating contact and then getting a whistle. Also bogus in my book.

[ClingingMars]

I wish they would review the whole bogus "I can't possibly stop you so I am going to fall down and hope for a whistle", i.e.- flopping.

We have Dean Smith to thank for making the incessant attempt to draw offensive fouls a part of the game. College got rid of his four corners offense by finally adopting a shot clock. Now the NBA (and the NCAA for that matter) ought to address the whole flopping fiasco.

talk about whining. sheesh. would you like a bottle too?

- Mars

[bulletedge]

Hey, Mars- take a chill pill. How is what I wrote "whining"? I'm not calling out the Spurs- EVERYBODY flops-College and Pro.

And IMHO it detracts from the way the game ought to be played.

If you consider that "whining"- then so be it.

[Spurminator]

Fine with me. It's not like this takes anything away from the Spurs beating the Suns.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

I wish they would review the whole bogus "I can't possibly stop you so I am going to fall down and hope for a whistle", i.e.- flopping.

We have Dean Smith to thank for making the incessant attempt to draw offensive fouls a part of the game. College got rid of his four corners offense by finally adopting a shot clock. Now the NBA (and the NCAA for that matter) ought to address the whole flopping fiasco.

Talk about things that disrupt the flow of the game.


What are you talking about? Flopping does not disrupt the flow of the game. The flopper flops. The ref calls a foul, but he would have called one anyway, most likely. Or, the ref doesn't call a foul, because he didn't see a foul, or because he doesn't like flopping. Either way, the flow of the game is about the same.

The whining about flopping is way, way out of control. It's not football, people, it's basketball. Players aren't supposed to succeed because they can smash into other players and knock them out of the way. Flopping is just a way to call attention to the fact that someone maybe was fouled. The refs still call the fouls. A foul is a foul whether flopping occurred or not.



As long as I am on a roll- they also need to look at shooters initiating contact and then getting a whistle. Also bogus in my book.

Again, that all depends. When you flop, it doesn't mean there wasn't an offensive foul. And, when you initiate contact, it doesn't mean there wasn't a defensive foul.

The shooter is allowed to jump any way he wants to. When he makes contact with the defender, the question is, was the defender in a vertical defensive stance and the offensive player jumped into him? Or was the defender moving and did not have defensive stance established?

For example, the shooter ball fakes, the defender jumps in the air (moving, not in a defensive stance), and the shooter jumps forward and initiates contact while shooting with the defender in the air. Foul on the defender? You betcha. You can't be moving into the path of the shooter while he makes his shot and not have a foul called on you when contact is made. It's an easy call.

Defenders have to learn to establish position and not react so much to shot and body fakes that get them jumping and leaning, because then they are just dead meat for foul calls.

[ClingingMars]

Hey, Mars- take a chill pill. How is what I wrote "whining"? I'm not calling out the Spurs- EVERYBODY flops-College and Pro.

And IMHO it detracts from the way the game ought to be played.

If you consider that "whining"- then so be it.

it's called playing with smarts. if you can't handle it then don't be a basketball fan.

bball isn't all about muscle and just banging right over your opponent. sorry.

- Mars

[bulletedge]

What are you talking about? Flopping does not disrupt the flow of the game. The flopper flops. The ref calls a foul, but he would have called one anyway, most likely. Or, the ref doesn't call a foul, because he didn't see a foul, or because he doesn't like flopping. Either way, the flow of the game is about the same.



Again, that all depends. When you flop, it doesn't mean there wasn't an offensive foul. And, when you initiate contact, it doesn't mean there wasn't a defensive foul.

The shooter is allowed to jump any way he wants to. When he makes contact with the defender, the question is, was the defender in a vertical defensive stance and the offensive player jumped into him? Or was the defender moving and did not have defensive stance established?

For example, the shooter ball fakes, the defender jumps in the air (moving, not in a defensive stance), and the shooter jumps forward and initiates contact while shooting with the defender in the air. Foul on the defender? You betcha. You can't be moving into the path of the shooter while he makes his shot and not have a foul called on you when contact is made. It's an easy call.

Defenders have to learn to establish position and not react so much to shot and body fakes that get them jumping and leaning, because then they are just dead meat for foul calls.

[oligarchy]

Pop exploited the strategy when he did it in every single quarter once the Spurs got in the penalty and either Shaq or Skinner were in the game. The strategy may have been used all the way back to Wilt Chamberlain, but I doubt it was ever used as extensively. I don't like the strategy but I had no problem with Pop using it while it's well within the rules as they are currently constructed. But, I do think it takes away from the game and the spirit of competition.

What do you think of on the ball fouls in the last few minutes of a game? E.g., a team is down by 1 and the other team has the ball, they intentionally foul the person the ball is inbounded to. Do you believe that takes away from the game and the spirit of competition?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational -- just trying to gauge your viewpoint.

[travis2]

Obviously they didn't care when it was "hack-a-Bowen"...

[Obstructed_View]

They didn't care when someone other than the Spurs was doing it.

Stern recognizes the Spurs' version of Hack a Shaq for what it was: A big "fuck you" from Pop to the Suns, to David Stern, to Stu Jackson and to ESPN. Let 'em change the rule. It's already killed the Suns and cost Mike D'Antoni his job. I'm perfectly satisfied with the results.

[manufor3]

it's called playing with smarts. if you can't handle it then don't be a basketball fan.

bball isn't all about muscle and just banging right over your opponent. sorry.

- Mars

:lol

[Darcus]

Pop exploited the strategy when he did it in every single quarter once the Spurs got in the penalty and either Shaq or Skinner were in the game. The strategy may have been used all the way back to Wilt Chamberlain, but I doubt it was ever used as extensively. I don't like the strategy but I had no problem with Pop using it while it's well within the rules as they are currently constructed. But, I do think it takes away from the game and the spirit of competition.

I agree. You can't be upset with Pop for using a tactic within the design of the game that is going to make his team win.

But honestly, the fouls are there for a reason--you're not supposed to do that. It's technically breaking a rule. Any attempt to exploit rule breaking consequences should be evaluated very deeply.

[Princess Pimp]

Smart idea by Stern, Hack-a-Shaq is for losers and now the users of this dirty and cheap ass tactic are paying the consecuences by getting swept in the second round.

[ElNono]

Smart idea by Stern, Hack-a-Shaq is for losers and now the users of this dirty and cheap ass tactic are paying the consecuences by getting swept in the second round.

Talking about losers, what are you doing here? Shouldn't you be :fishing somewhere with Nash, Amare and Raja?

[Spurs Brazil]

Lame

When Nelson did that with Bruce in 03 nobody said anything

[timvp]

You can't make this up. Teams have been employing Hack-a-Shaq for a decade. Don Nelson has been intentionally fouling players for like 25 years. And now that the Spurs use it, the NBA looks into changing the rules.

The NBA usually waits for the Spurs to win the championship before changing rules. Maybe this is a good omen . . .

[MannyIsGod]

lol @ the idea that no one has used this as much as the Spurs. Don Nelson did this to Bowen more in ONE GAME than the Spurs ever used it in the entire series.

This is such a crock.

[LakeShow]

You guys just don't get it! It's not about Shaq, it's not about the "SPURS' . It is about a tactic that hurts the game! It's not basketball and it hurts the integrity of the league. It was amplified by being done on one of the NBA greatest stage, at a time when the Suns vs. Spurs match up was the featured and most anticipated match up in a very competitive Western Conference. The hack a shaq turned that match up into a spectacle, a circus, a joke. It hurt the league not only on the court it also hurt the league in the pockets. The league MUST change the rules so that no other NBA team will ever be able to hurt the game like that again.

It disgusted the long time NBA fans and it turned off the casual NBA fans who then found something else to do with their time. Excellent decision by the league to look into changing the rule, the Spurs left them no choice!

[manufor3]

Smart idea by Stern, Hack-a-Shaq is for losers and now the users of this dirty and cheap ass tactic are paying the consecuences by getting swept in the second round.

where's your team? oh ya that thats right

[Obstructed_View]

You guys just don't get it! It's not about Shaq, it's not about the "SPURS' . It is about a tactic that hurts the game! It's not basketball and it hurts the integrity of the league.

Since this is only being discussed for the first time when the Spurs used it, I submit that it IS about the Spurs.

And I just have to say once again how proud I am of Pop for doing it. I hope it made televisions switch off all over the country.

[pauls931]

Since this is only being discussed for the first time when the Spurs used it, I submit that it IS about the Spurs.

And I just have to say once again how proud I am of Pop for doing it. I hope it made televisions switch off all over the country.

I think I agree with the Laker dude. Hack a shaq has been used for well over a decade, but popavich abused it don nelson style on a very large stage.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Great, a rule change for a fat ass that's only going to be in the league one more year, whoopdefriggindo.

[pauls931]

Great, a rule change for a fat ass that's only going to be in the league one more year, whoopdefriggindo.

The problem is people are fouling away from the ball/play. If shaq has the ball, people could foul him all they want for all I care. I think it should be a freethrow if you're in the penalty and the ball back.

[Avitus1]

LMAO crying about Hack-A-Shack...

[Matchman]

You guys just don't get it! It's not about Shaq, it's not about the "SPURS' . It is about a tactic that hurts the game! It's not basketball and it hurts the integrity of the league. It was amplified by being done on one of the NBA greatest stage, at a time when the Suns vs. Spurs match up was the featured and most anticipated match up in a very competitive Western Conference. The hack a shaq turned that match up into a spectacle, a circus, a joke. It hurt the league not only on the court it also hurt the league in the pockets. The league MUST change the rules so that no other NBA team will ever be able to hurt the game like that again.

It disgusted the long time NBA fans and it turned off the casual NBA fans who then found something else to do with their time. Excellent decision by the league to look into changing the rule, the Spurs left them no choice!

NO, what is really hurting the integrity of the game is that the NBA constantly tries to bail out lazy players who never practice their freethrows. If players have made it to the NBA, I expect everyone of them to at least have some work ethic to practice their freethrows. They are FREE for a reason and it disgusted the long time NBA fans (like me) who knew that some NBA stars getting paid millions of dollars cant do something that local YMCA ballers can do.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The problem is people are fouling away from the ball/play. If shaq has the ball, people could foul him all they want for all I care. I think it should be a freethrow if you're in the penalty and the ball back.

It's not a problem except for one shitty, over the hill fat ass out in Phoenix that the league still seems intent on propping up as a star for some reason.

Where was the league when Phil Jackson and Don Nelson were taking turns playing Hack-a-Bowen one year in the playoffs? Why not the problem with it then? :rolleyes

Shaq sucks at free throws. He should get his ass in the gym and practice, not cry to the league (along with his team) and look for a friggin' handout. That's lame.

[jman3000]

anybody notice the one time pop went to hack a chandler?

he went 1 for 1 and didnt use it after that.

[MannyIsGod]

Chandler is a much better shooter than Shaq. You have to be REALLY fucking bad for this strat to work. Thats why they don't need to fix it. Doing it against Chandler is bad.

[GSH]

Where was the league when Phil Jackson and Don Nelson were taking turns playing Hack-a-Bowen one year in the playoffs? Why not the problem with it then? :rolleyes


It became an issue when the Spurs did it. As you point out, they didn't invent it, nor have they used it as much as some other teams/coaches. But when the Spurs use it successfully, it becomes a problem.

The inquest, and the recommendation to change the rules, has and will come from the Competition Committee. Which, not coincidentally, happens to be headed by Stu Jackson.

He has a hard-on for the Spurs, and he's not afraid to use it.

[SRJ]

If the Spurs were a baseball team, MLB would outlaw intentional walks after the Spurs won the World Series.

[Obstructed_View]

anybody notice the one time pop went to hack a chandler?

he went 1 for 1 and didnt use it after that.

Was that actually an intentional foul? I mentioned it in the game thread but I was just joking.

[MannyIsGod]

Was that actually an intentional foul? I mentioned it in the game thread but I was just joking.

They did it once with about 1:30 to go in the first half. They brought Horry in who fouled Paul quickly to put them into the penalty then he immediately fouled Chandler on the next inbounds.

[ShoogarBear]

Fine with me. It's not like this takes anything away from the Spurs beating the Suns.

Perhaps you'll change your mind when Stern makes the rule retroactive one year and orders the series to be replayed.

[dav4463]

Spurs are so good, they force rule changes. When Mark Cuban started crying that his boy Dirk couldn't drive to the basket, the league started emphasizing the hand-check rule. Now, Pop figures out how to stop Shaq, and the league wants to change the rules again.

What's next? Outlaw the pick and roll? Outlaw the bank shot because Timmy's too good at it? Outlaw players from Argentina? Outlaw point guards being allowed to score in the paint? Outlaw players who are as old as Robert Horry? .....etc.

[Obstructed_View]

They did it once with about 1:30 to go in the first half. They brought Horry in who fouled Paul quickly to put them into the penalty then he immediately fouled Chandler on the next inbounds.

Since this year's Spurs team isn't as good at finishing out quarters as previous teams have been, it kind of makes sense to disrupt the other team's rhythm just a bit, especially when the other team is thinking "oh shit, here it comes".

I don't like it against anyone but the Suns. It would be fun to do it against the Lakers a bit just as an extra little "fuck you" to what's his name.

[wijayas]

Smart idea by Stern, Hack-a-Shaq is for losers and now the users of this dirty and cheap ass tactic are paying the consecuences by getting swept in the second round.

Yohoo!!!! Princess Pimp is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, let's get serious in pimping the princess, Spurs fan. We're going to have fun. :lol :lol :lol

By the way Princess, if you did not flunk your algebra, you'll notice that it is not possible for Spurs to get swept now. :lol :lol :lol

[wijayas]

Spurs are so good, they force rule changes. When Mark Cuban started crying that his boy Dirk couldn't drive to the basket, the league started emphasizing the hand-check rule. Now, Pop figures out how to stop Shaq, and the league wants to change the rules again.

What's next? Outlaw the pick and roll? Outlaw the bank shot because Timmy's too good at it? Outlaw players from Argentina? Outlaw point guards being allowed to score in the paint? Outlaw players who are as old as Robert Horry? .....etc.

:toast :toast :toast

[wijayas]

Perhaps you'll change your mind when Stern makes the rule retroactive one year and orders the series to be replayed.

ShoogarBear....! :lol :lol :lol :toast :toast :toast

[wijayas]

It became an issue when the Spurs did it. As you point out, they didn't invent it, nor have they used it as much as some other teams/coaches. But when the Spurs use it successfully, it becomes a problem.

The inquest, and the recommendation to change the rules, has and will come from the Competition Committee. Which, not coincidentally, happens to be headed by Stu Jackson.

He has a hard-on for the Spurs, and he's not afraid to use it.

Remember that Bowen got suspended for NOT kicking the new prince Cris Paul?
Remember that Mehmet Okur WAS NOT suspended for hitting Oberto in the face?
You are right on cue on Stu, brother! :toast

[wijayas]

You guys just don't get it! It's not about Shaq, it's not about the "SPURS' . It is about a tactic that hurts the game! It's not basketball and it hurts the integrity of the league. It was amplified by being done on one of the NBA greatest stage, at a time when the Suns vs. Spurs match up was the featured and most anticipated match up in a very competitive Western Conference. The hack a shaq turned that match up into a spectacle, a circus, a joke. It hurt the league not only on the court it also hurt the league in the pockets. The league MUST change the rules so that no other NBA team will ever be able to hurt the game like that again.

It disgusted the long time NBA fans and it turned off the casual NBA fans who then found something else to do with their time. Excellent decision by the league to look into changing the rule, the Spurs left them no choice!

So, Shaq is a $20 million dollar, lazy-fat-ass-kind of a joke for the league. Let's suspend Shaq! :lol :lol :lol

Or, we'll be a gracious winner. We'll lend Chip Engellan to teach Shaq how to shoot free throw. How about that?

[timvp]

Defensive three seconds. The charge circle. No hand checking. Now no Hack-a-Shaq?

Might as well change the NBA Rule Book to the Stopping Those Cheating Spurs Book.

[wijayas]

Defensive three seconds. The charge circle. No hand checking. Now no Hack-a-Shaq?

Might as well change the NBA Rule Book to the Stopping Those Cheating Spurs Book.

Well-put! :lol :toast

[ShoogarBear]

Defensive three seconds. The charge circle. No hand checking. Now no Hack-a-Shaq?

Might as well change the NBA Rule Book to the Stopping Those Cheating Spurs Book.

New Rule: No Left-Handed Argentinians.

[Cry Havoc]

New Rule: No Left-Handed Argentinians.

No scoring in the paint if you're dating a TV star.


The hack a shaq turned that match up into a spectacle, a circus, a joke.

No, Shaq's free throw shooting did that.


It disgusted the long time NBA fans and it turned off the casual NBA fans who then found something else to do with their time.

Maybe people were disgusted by the fact that a player making nearly 750 times the average annual salary (more like 1200 times with endorsement deals) of an American middle class worker is unable to routinely hit a shot that said individual can either go into their driveway and sink with far more regularity or watch their 15 year old high school son better on a daily basis.

Shaq is the antithesis to hard work. He's the perfect example of "I'm bigger and stronger than you, so that automatically means I should dominate the sport."

Wow, you mean the public is turned off when they find out that he SUCKS AT BASKETBALL? Amazing.

[rascal]

You guys just don't get it! It's not about Shaq, it's not about the "SPURS' . It is about a tactic that hurts the game! It's not basketball and it hurts the integrity of the league. It was amplified by being done on one of the NBA greatest stage, at a time when the Suns vs. Spurs match up was the featured and most anticipated match up in a very competitive Western Conference. The hack a shaq turned that match up into a spectacle, a circus, a joke. It hurt the league not only on the court it also hurt the league in the pockets. The league MUST change the rules so that no other NBA team will ever be able to hurt the game like that again.

It disgusted the long time NBA fans and it turned off the casual NBA fans who then found something else to do with their time. Excellent decision by the league to look into changing the rule, the Spurs left them no choice!


Good post. The rule must be changed. The spurs destroyed the flow of the game and made it a shaq free throw event and boring to most fans.

[Harry Callahan]

Defensive three seconds. The charge circle. No hand checking. Now no Hack-a-Shaq?

Might as well change the NBA Rule Book to the Stopping Those Cheating Spurs Book.

TimVP,

It's funny that Boston and Cleveland play a 76-74 game in Game One and I doubt anyone at ESPN/ABC will call the Celtics boring.

The double standard is amazing. The Spurs get this boring label and they will never be able to get rid of it. The Spurs win four championships and its almost like they have to apoligize how they did it. It gets really old.

Stern wants the Spurs to go away, and its really sad that a team of pretty good guys and terrific ball players get painted in such a negative light in the national media.

The Spurs don't get much love outside South Texas, that's for sure.

[slowchild25]

Good post. The rule must be changed. The spurs destroyed the flow of the game and made it a shaq free throw event and boring to most fans.

How can Shaq shooting free throws be boring? If your there in person you have to pay attention at all time for fear of one of those bricks flying into the crowd and killing someone. It's like the fine print on the back of baseball tickets to watch for foul balls and broken bats. If your at home watching on TV you get to see everyone behind the basket petrified that they may be the next ones to go!

[Harry Callahan]

Good post. The rule must be changed. The spurs destroyed the flow of the game and made it a shaq free throw event and boring to most fans.

No. O'Neal could have enough pride to learn to make free throws. Don't change the rules to benefit a player who is so bad at such a fundamenal skill. If he could shoot even 65% from the line, this would not be an issue.

Don't blame the Spurs for being smart and resourceful, blame shaq for being lazy.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I don't agree with taking hack-a-shaq out of the game. I can understand why they would do it for aesthetic purposes, but it is endorsing a less fundamentally sound game, and I don't agree with any rule that does that.

Players should pay the price for not working as hard as they should on aspects of their game that need improvement. The league should not reward them.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Defensive three seconds. The charge circle. No hand checking. Now no Hack-a-Shaq?

Might as well change the NBA Rule Book to the Stopping Those Cheating Spurs Book.

:lmao

:flag:

[Strike]

How can Shaq shooting free throws be boring? If your there in person you have to pay attention at all time for fear of one of those bricks flying into the crowd and killing someone. It's like the fine print on the back of baseball tickets to watch for foul balls and broken bats. If your at home watching on TV you get to see everyone behind the basket petrified that they may be the next ones to go!

:lol

I've been saying it for years. If Shaq can't make his free throws, he shouldn't be rewarded.

One key to winning is to exploit your opposition's weakness. The hack-a-snaq is nothing more, nothing less. Exploiting a weakness. If you're playing against a team who's star is hobbled, are you not gonna run an iso on him and exploit that injury?

The league and all these whiny bitch fans need to shut the fuck up and stop kissing Snaq's 4-foot wide ass. He's a dominant player because he's Oliver fucking Miller with a little more skill.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good post. The rule must be changed. The spurs destroyed the flow of the game and made it a shaq free throw event and boring to most fans.

I get bored when teams intentionally walk a home run hitter in baseball, maybe you can bitch about getting that rule changed too :rolleyes

Or howabout when a guy can only dribble with one hand, so teams force him to go away from that hand defensively. We should outlaw that type of defense too, it focuses too much on said players' weakness (much like Snatch's FT shooting).

Or in hockey when teams go four corners when they're down a man on a power play and try to kill the clock. Ban that.

Or when football teams get up big and run the ball every play. Ban that, they should have to pass every play, it's more *exciting*.

It ain't like Fat Ass has to go work a real job at any point since graduating college. He's always relied on being bigger and stronger to get by. You want to avoid embarrassments like the Phoenix series? Get his ass in the gym and make him practice.

I could give a shit how the Spurs won, it's the playoffs. It's all about winning. If you want style points go be a fucking Phoenix fan (err, NY probably now with D'Antoni going there).

[RonMexico]

Oh what the fuck is this? Are we the first team in NBA Playoff history to have ever used this tactic?

No, the first time it was used frequently, they banned it in the final 2 minutes.

Now, it's on to hack-a-Chandler.


When it was used by NC State in the tournament to beat Houston, they outlawed all off-the-ball fouls.

When people started fouling in the NBA and NCAA before the ball was inbounded, the fouled team got a FT and possession (see: Barbosa's stupid foul on Parker in Game 1 of last year).

Rules change all the time - I'm sure NO would have used it against Suns if Suns advanced... or if Shaq started shooting 80%

[RonMexico]

Defensive three seconds. The charge circle. No hand checking. Now no Hack-a-Shaq?

Might as well change the NBA Rule Book to the Stopping Those Cheating Spurs Book.

Well, no hand-checking had been a rule for a while... just the strict enforcement of it began around 2002.

[clubalien]

how abou this. foul off the ball lets any player shot the foul shoot. allows you still to foul off the ball, but anyone can shoot ( ie the best shooter)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

how abou this. foul off the ball lets any player shot the foul shoot. allows you still to foul off the ball, but anyone can shoot ( ie the best shooter)

Howabout we leave the rules like they are instead of changing them for some fat ass who's only going to be in the league for one or two more years?

[jochhejaam]

One proposal being considered:


Addendum to the Official NBA Rule Book;

1. Each team shall be entitled to designate 1 player for each game as being "non-foulable", if not in possession of the ball.

2. For identification purposes, a teams' designated player shall wear a yellow headband, yellow wristbands and yellow over-the-calf socks. A yellow choker may be substituted for the headband.

[rasho8]

Here is a question.

If they go to the "If you intentionally foul away from the ball on a crappy free throw shooter they get a shot and the ball back" what do they doi when two players collide away from the ball?

There are fouls away from the ball all the time. If they implemented that rule it would be an extra free throw and the ball? Bullshit.

Only if its intentional you say? They cant even figure out that when Dirt and CP3 go flying 10 feet away in a spin from the most minute contact that they are flopping (Yes I know Gino does it too, Im aware) and call bullshit fouls, how are they going to determine if its 'intentional'?

And finally, STFU already. This has been done since the early nineties, learn to shoot free throws or quit bitching. Not the Spurs fault some people suck ass at free throws.

[sprrs]

While I agree that it does disrupt the flow of the game, I think Jeff Van Gundy said it best: You don't initiate a rule for lack of skill.

[Strike]

One proposal being considered:


Addendum to the Official NBA Rule Book;

1. Each team shall be entitled to designate 1 player for each game as being "non-foulable", if not in possession of the ball.

2. For identification purposes, a teams' designated player shall wear a yellow headband, yellow wristbands and yellow over-the-calf socks. A yellow choker may be substituted for the headband.

:lol

[gobo]

This hack-a-"insert player" is not a good thing for the game. It disrupts the follow of the game to say the least. I was surprised to hear spurs employed that technique a lot even when they were up. NBA should revise it. May be they should modify the penalty by giving the ball back on top of the free throws. The hacking team would be discouraged because it won't get the ball back immediately after the free throws.

[rasho8]

This hack-a-"insert player" is not a good thing for the game. It disrupts the follow of the game to say the least. I was surprised to hear spurs employed that technique a lot even when they were up. NBA should revise it. May be they should modify the penalty by giving the ball back on top of the free throws. The hacking team would be discouraged because it won't get the ball back immediately after the free throws.

Disrupting the flow of a team that REQUIRES that flow is the point.

You notice that nifty little time out the coach calls when the opposing team is on a run? Well just think of it as a forced time out where a real shitty free throw shooter gets a chance to score some points.

[gobo]

Disrupting the flow of a team that REQUIRES that flow is the point.

You notice that nifty little time out the coach calls when the opposing team is on a run? Well just think of it as a forced time out where a real shitty free throw shooter gets a chance to score some points.

Tell me what you think is the ultimate goal of NBA.

[kbyanks21]

i like how no one cared when they fouled tim on purpose, i remember the mavs doing it a lot to him. but no, we can't upset poor little shaq

[ClingingMars]

lol, quick, the Spurs beat the ratings champs, change the rules!

- Mars

[SRJ]

Tell me what you think is the ultimate goal of NBA.

To have the Lakers play in the Finals every year.

Now, you tell me - what is the goal of every team playing in the playoffs?

I can't wait for your answer, so I'll guess on your behalf: To win sixteen playoff games. In order to do that, you do everything you can within the rules in order to accomplish that goal.

Newsflash to Hack-a-Shaq detractors: It's not a free tactic for the hacking team. It costs fouls (which could cost the hacking team in the fourth quarter), it gets the hacked team into the penalty sooner, and if Shaq's coach pulls him, then you're in the penalty against a good FT shooting team and you've got guys with more fouls than if you hadn't hacked in the first place.

[gobo]

To have the Lakers play in the Finals every year. :lol


Now, you tell me - what is the goal of every team playing in the playoffs?


I can't wait for your answer, so I'll guess on your behalf: To win sixteen playoff games. In order to do that, you do everything you can within the rules in order to accomplish that goal.

Newsflash to Hack-a-Shaq detractors: It's not a free tactic for the hacking team. It costs fouls (which could cost the hacking team in the fourth quarter), it gets the hacked team into the penalty sooner, and if Shaq's coach pulls him, then you're in the penalty against a good FT shooting team and you've got guys with more fouls than if you hadn't hacked in the first place.


In all seriousness, I was wondering if you were going to say the goal was to entertain people.

When the hacking team uses its seldom used reserve players, fouling may be a limiting factor. As you noted, it is within the rules so far but it is not entertaining to watch some player comes only to hack and stop the game frequently.

[manubili]

If this turns into more a severe punishment, it would increase the flopping of players guarding guys without the ball. It would be a mess.

[nfg3]

Lakeshow hit on it indirectly when he pointed out that many a casual fan is turned off by it and will find something else to do. NBA losing new fans due to boring, cheap ass, disgusting, unasethic looking, POSSIBLY REVENUE REDUCING tactics? Heavens forbid that this would happen!

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS! MONEY. Pure and simple. :greedy

It's been used for almost four decades, starting with Wilt. He initiated the first change in the rules. Nelson used it successfully against us in the 90's when he was at GS and again in Dallas in '03. And of course you have Shaq. So there is a second change to the rules that we know today - the 2 minutes prior to the end of each half scenario.

But the NBA was handed, due to the incredibly competitve WC, this big marquee matchup for the ages in the first round between the Spurs and the Suns. Possible 7 games series. The NBA and ESPN/ABC were salivating over this and selling it to the hilt. Ratings were going to go through the roof amd commercials slots during this game would sell like Super Bowl ones! I'm exaggerating a little but you get the point.

The league back in the late 70's was in trouble. Revenues were sagging, interest was dwindling and they needed major help. Then along came Magic, Bird and then MJ. So the league used these new found saviors to kick start a revival by selling their product based on individual exploits rather than the accomplishments of the team. ESPN anti'd up with their Highlight reels on Sportscenter. And look what happened. The NBA exploded and so did it's revenue. They couldn't count all the money, it was coming in so fast.

But lately we hear about the fans being turned off by - insert your pet peeve here - and the league needs to address the dwindling returns of said action if it continues. So the NBA brings it out in the guise of competition changes that would be good for the game. Personally I particularly don't care for it but it is part of the game. Making FTs is fundamental to playing BB and if you can't then this should be exploited.

But unfortunately, in one aspect, this is a business and many things that the league does is predicated on what effect it has on the bottom line. And the media has a big say in this, too. We need to keep in mind those huge TV contracts that get renegotiated periodically are based more so on Nielson ratings and rather than competitive issues.

I'm sorry if I have come across as too cynical:shootme but I truly believe that undernath all the things going on the almighty dollar has a tremendous say in the final outcome. Putting fans in the arenas and in front of the TV is just as important if not more so than having an competive product. What the fans perceive is what you are. Without fans and their $$ there is no sport.

[RandomGuy]

Jeezus this thread is worthless.

Make.
Your.
Free.
Throws.

/thread.

[ClingingMars]

Jeezus this thread is worthless.

Make.
Your.
Free.
Throws.

/thread.

[Cry Havoc]

Notice how Hack-a-Tyson isn't working?

Because Tyson isn't a fucktard like Shaq?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[gobo]

It was ironic the spurs employed this hack-a-shaq technique. A couple seasons ago, they were one of the worst free throw shooting team. I do not know their standing on this statistic this season. But they still have bowen and TD who are suspect on this. In fact, I was surprised the suns did not respond fire with fire. Why not use hack-a-bowen technique every time the spurs used that hack-a-shaq? I think shaq is as accurate a free throw shooter as bowen is.

[ClingingMars]

It was ironic the spurs employed this hack-a-shaq technique. A couple seasons ago, they were one of the worst free throw shooting team. I do not know their standing on this statistic this season. But they still have bowen and TD who are suspect on this. In fact, I was surprised the suns did not respond fire with fire. Why not use hack-a-bowen technique every time the spurs used that hack-a-shaq? I think shaq is as accurate a free throw shooter as bowen is.

because we'd just take bowen out and put parker on nash? infact, i don't think bowen played extensively in that series at all, at least not close to as much as Shaq did.

- Mars

[gobo]

because we'd just take bowen out and put parker on nash? infact, i don't think bowen played extensively in that series at all, at least not close to as much as Shaq did.

- Mars

They could have hacked TD.

[SRJ]

In all seriousness, I was wondering if you were going to say the goal was to entertain people.

Seriously, you're right. Entertainment is the NBA's goal. But Hack-a-Shaq isn't a big issue because virtually every player in the NBA is good enough at free throws to the extent that opposing coaches wouldn't try it. For 98% of the players in the league, it is counter-productive to Hack-a-Shaq. Why change the rules to save the remaining 2% a little embarrassment?

[ClingingMars]

They could have hacked TD.

07-08 season: 0.730 FT%

how would that make sense? yeah they COULD try it...and we woulda still won.

- Mars

[Cloud786]

Doc rivers pulled out the Hack-A-Ben strategy tonight.. don't see anyone bitching about that.