Calling Out The Refs...

[spurscenter]

Yo this series needs a REF thread, I know we won

but man o man, the first three quarters, that black ref was on an agenda.

If we didnt hit our shots, we were done . Were lucky we made shots.


Those refs brought back memories of the 2000-2002 Lakers blatant calls against the Spurs.


I mean WTF was that?

Paul travels nothing, the other end Hornets get the call.


Tony cannot buy a foul, the Finals MVP.


I mean call a fucking game like you see it.


I thought the league learned from that crooked ref.


For the first 3 quarters, the fix was in until the Spurs made too many shots for them to make an appearance.

Whats the black ref's name BTW?
:bang

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080509/capt.524e5c3a9c774a52931de69ccaf30df9.hornets_spur s_basketball_txdp108.jpg

[phyzik]

I would agree that there where a few questionable calls....

But we won, so whatever.

[SpursFan0728]

yea I notice too
That black ref, what is his name?

[spurscenter]

yea , like i said, I know we won but if we DID NOT HIT OUR SHOTS the game was dooomed for us.

If you make your shots and pull away its hard for refs to interfere, notice its only when its close +-3 points, they get all whistle happy to dictate the pace accordingly.

That black ref was in on the take. I bet money that he was.


I know it sounds like conspiracy theory but after that crooked ref exposure, you can't blame me.

[SequSpur]

dude, chris paul was due at least 3 technicals tonight for running his fuckin mouth. also, I am so sick of parker getting fucking hammered and not getting a fucking calll....

[Brutalis]

Hornets have had the handle of the whistle for 3 games and we are lucky to be aiming at 2-2 this next one. The win tonight is cause we hit shots and stayed aggressive.

[honestfool84]

chris paul is such a pansy, especially that one time where he brushed himself on oberto and fell down. what a fag.

[BonnerDynasty]

dude, chris paul was due at least 3 technicals tonight for running his fuckin mouth. also, I am so sick of parker getting fucking hammered and not getting a fucking calll....

hammered? Not really.

You must fall for his acting after EVERY drive?

Paul got the foul call for a lot weaker shit though.

[SequSpur]

hammered? Not really.

You must fall for his acting after EVERY drive?

Paul got the foul call for a lot weaker shit though.

lick balls.

[VinnyTestesVerde]

hammered? Not really.

You must fall for his acting after EVERY drive?

Paul got the foul call for a lot weaker shit though.

agreed...seemed that there were a ton of ticky tack fouls one way or the other. first part of the game was painful

[spurscenter]

dude, chris paul was due at least 3 technicals tonight for running his fuckin mouth. also, I am so sick of parker getting fucking hammered and not getting a fucking calll....

YEA

he got none

it was amazing

he hasnt earned shit and the refs treat him like Michael Jordan

I think the league called the refs and said "YELLOW"

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

tony travels on his moves all of the sudden

[spurscenter]

CHRIS PAUL DID NOT WALK ONCE

CHRIS PAUL NO OFFENSIVE FOULS

CHRIS PAUL NO TECH.


what was that black refs name, he was on the take.

[JamStone]

LOL!

It's always the "black" one, right?

I believe his name is Bill Kennedy, but I'm not positive.

I did find it amusing that ESPN chose to get a camera shot of the official running down the court after the second travel call on Parker. So conspiracy theory of them.

Anyway, you sound like a Suns fan... after a win no less.

[Deb]

LOL!

It's always the "black" one, right?

I believe his name is Bill Kennedy, but I'm not positive.

I did find it amusing that ESPN chose to get a camera shot of the official running down the court after the second travel call on Parker. So conspiracy theory of them.

Anyway, you sound like a Suns fan... after a win no less.

Dude, doesn't matter whether he was black, white, or yellow, he was just BAD:bang

[T Park]

Delaney and Kennedy were pathetic.

Javie was fantastic though.

Delaney and Kennedy were trying to impose their will in that third quarter for some reason.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

It all comes down to hit your hosts. The rest mid 3 quarter were horrendous and it's obvious Paul isn't getting any calls against him. He's a great player but as a ref you need to show him he can't do certain things.

[Blackjack]

Ed Hockuley apparently thought he could get away with officiating an NBA game after watching "Soul Man." He almost got away with it, but then he went and officiated one abortion of a game. Nice try... "Hock."

[JOE in NO]

What's the big deal? The Hornets actually had more fouls called on them than were called on the Spurs (21-20). Also, both teams shot 21 FT's. You could say they didn't call a few travels on Paul but I'd then say they didn't call enough on Parker when he spins and drags his pivot foot from one side of the lane to the other.

[SPURS50]

What's up with chandler getting away with those moving screens and sticking out his leg or pushing parker into paul? That shit happened a dozen times easy.

[Brutalis]

What's up with chandler getting away with those moving screens and sticking out his leg or pushing parker into paul? That shit happened a dozen times easy.

EXACTLY

They were getting away with all kind of movement on screens and one of those alley oop dunks Chandler just pushed Parker to the side.

Ely also had his arms high and pushed Duncan away from the ball when he was trying to get position a few times in the third.

Those would have to be my main gripes I'll forget about tomorrow.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs aren't going to get the calls. Fuck it. They need to man up, accept it, and play through it. I'm sick of seeing the Hornets go back the other way while Tim is bitching about a no call. Just fucking play and don't expect any calls.

[Obstructed_View]

That third quarter was brutal. I'm really surprised that the Hornets were allowed to just bulldoze people out of the way with impunity. That there wasn't a single call for an illegal pick just boggles the mind. Props to the Spurs for playing through it and not allowing the Hornets to capitalize off being in the bonus for almost nine minutes. They did a much better job of not whining about the calls in this game, and the crowd did a good job of not getting overly caught up in it.

[MannyIsGod]

That third quarter was brutal. I'm really surprised that the Hornets were allowed to just bulldoze people out of the way with impunity. That there wasn't a single call for an illegal pick just boggles the mind. Props to the Spurs for playing through it and not allowing the Hornets to capitalize off being in the bonus for almost nine minutes. They did a much better job of not whining about the calls in this game, and the crowd did a good job of not getting overly caught up in it.

:lol you must have missed the "refs you suck" chants that filled the AT&T in the 3rd.

[spurastic]

Bill Kennedy is the name of the Hornet's ref.

[reck21]

The Spurs are never gonna get it easy.

They're easily the most hated team in the NBA today. Both by fans and those moron refs. We just gotta play tough and show them their BS calls wont matter.

I hate how Timmy is having to virtually back off and let CP have his way in the paint. Is iether that or get call on a bogus foul. <_<

[Obstructed_View]

:lol you must have missed the "refs you suck" chants that filled the AT&T in the 3rd.

Considering the way the Suns fans, Nuggets fans, Jazz fans, Sonics fans, and Mavericks fans get carried away with booing every single whistle, or that big collective "AWWWWWW" when something doesn't go their way, I'd submit that a chant of "Refs you suck" in that particular third quarter was simply calling it as it was.

[shelshor]

The one that sickened me was in the 2nd half when Chrissiey sensed someone near him and started to flop and was about half down before he realized it was Kennedy and managed to catch himself

[spurscenter]

Dictate the Pace.

- Joey

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080514/capt.ed6eab57afa54ab6adeb6894d1b7c1b9.apotopix_spu rs_hornets_basketball_lawh111.jpg

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http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080514/capt.ebefd51b032f4a1bb164c701555cad62.spurs_hornet s_basketball_lawh108.jpg

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[Lebowski Brickowski]

What a fucking disgrace the officiating was. I NEVER talk about the refs but this was abominable. TD took what, 18 shots? and NO ONE EVER FOULED HIM?!?!

Fucking disgraceful.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What a fucking disgrace the officiating was. I NEVER talk about the refs but this was abominable. TD took what, 18 shots? and NO ONE EVER FOULED HIM?!?!

Fucking disgraceful.

All but about three of those were jumpers. He went Dirk on us tonight.

[poo-doe wayne-o]

i dont think this series has been terribly called.

spurs fans are notorious for "calling out the refs" and the the crazy part is, many times your right.

nba refs are a joke, and have in fact stolen championships away from teams who clearly should have won them.

if its not the refs gambling tendencies its the leagues agenda.

mavs in 06 for instance in the finals. that was a joke.

as well as the suns last year.

[poo-doe wayne-o]

however, tonight the team that played the best won.

anything else is a pathetic excuse.

[K-State Spur]

i would have liked to see Duncan and West officiated the same way. Oberto/Thomas weren't allowed to get anywhere near as physical with DW as Chandler has with Tim.

but ultimately, i thought the refs were fairly decent tonight. yes, the spurs were -15 at the line, but overall the Hornets were just more aggressive. Tony & Manu did not attack the rim like they should have. Tim should have gotten to the line more, but nowhere near enough to account for that disparity.

[K-State Spur]

i dont think this series has been terribly called.

spurs fans are notorious for "calling out the refs" and the the crazy part is, many times your right.

nba refs are a joke, and have in fact stolen championships away from teams who clearly should have won them.

if its not the refs gambling tendencies its the leagues agenda.

mavs in 06 for instance in the finals. that was a joke.

as well as the suns last year.

everybody is notorious for calling out the refs after a loss. fans who think their fan base is any different after a loss are kidding themselves.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

however, tonight the team that played the best won.

anything else is a pathetic excuse.

I'm just going to ask you to tone it down a little bit or you may find yourself banned tonight. The hornets won but it wasn't pretty, it wasn't dominant despite the score.

I would use caution if I was you.

[T Park]

All but about three of those were jumpers. He went Dirk on us tonight.

Yes he fucking did :pctoss

That was Dirkesque BS he pulled out there....

Good god.

[T Park]

i would have liked to see Duncan and West officiated the same way. Oberto/Thomas weren't allowed to get anywhere near as physical with DW as Chandler has with Tim.

but ultimately, i thought the refs were fairly decent tonight. yes, the spurs were -15 at the line, but overall the Hornets were just more aggressive. Tony & Manu did not attack the rim like they should have. Tim should have gotten to the line more, but nowhere near enough to account for that disparity.


The big three were passive and played very soft.


If pop had a pair he'd drop the GD soft card.

[K-State Spur]

The big three were passive and played very soft.


If pop had a pair he'd drop the GD soft card.

no argument there. all 3 of them were allergic to the rim tonight.

[poo-doe wayne-o]

I'm just going to ask you to tone it down a little bit or you may find yourself banned tonight. The hornets won but it wasn't pretty, it wasn't dominant despite the score.

I would use caution if I was you.


nothing i said was out of line so your "threat" dont really scare me. besides, im not posting "spurs suck" or anything childish or foul, so if i get banned i will just crack up that this series is under the skin of many. so ban me.

and yes, the game was good in the 1st half.
and yes in the 3rd and 4th it was domination.

just like games 3 and 4 were spur domination (well one of them anyway)

[SPURS50]

Every third quarter the spurs are in the penalty at the 7 minute mark at the latest! Every fucking game in NO. If this series goes 7 games, Does any spurs fan on this board think that it will be any different in the third quarter of game 7? I don't think so... The ref's are letting the hornets play as physical as they can play and not letting the spurs play physical at all... I love the spurs but it kills me when i watch the game and halftime comes and i ask myself, You know whats about to happen don't you? I hate to be the guy to say that it's the ref's that are screwing the spurs and I know the spurs played like garbage tonight but fuck you guys that have followed this team for a long time know that this shit happens way to often! The reffing takes us out of the game and it always puts the spurs in a hole that they can't dig themselves out of all the time!
One more question. What the fuck is joey crawford doing ever reffing a spurs game? I mean come on! Any spurs fan that does not agree with what i'm saying please correct me cause i wanna hear what you guys think! GO SPURS GO!

[TampaDude]

Fuck the refs...they don't make that much of a difference...if the Spurs actually bothered to show up in the second half, this series would be over already.

[GSH]

Fuck the refs...they don't make that much of a difference.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing that particular bit of dogma. Fab had done a pretty good job of frustrating West in the last 2 games - they even gave him credit for it in the national media. In this game, Fab played 15:33, and had 5 fouls at the end. One of his fouls came on that ridiculous double-technical, double-personal call with Ely.

When you handcuff a player, his defense tends to suffer. Period, end of story. Don't tell me that refs don't or can't make a big difference. That's a popular thing to say, but it simply isn't true.

West played well, and knocked down a bunch of shots. But it's much harder to take a guy out of his rhythm when you aren't allowed to defend him. When you're trying hard not to pick up your third foul of the half, you tend to have to concede some shots you might otherwise challenge.

You can say that Fab just didn't defend, or that he didn't want it that badly. But I'd like to see you tell him that in person. I bet he saw it a little differently.

[rasho8]

lick balls.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

I dont know why but that was funny as fuck.

[mavs>spurs2]

i dont think this series has been terribly called.

spurs fans are notorious for "calling out the refs" and the the crazy part is, many times your right.

nba refs are a joke, and have in fact stolen championships away from teams who clearly should have won them.

if its not the refs gambling tendencies its the leagues agenda.

mavs in 06 for instance in the finals. that was a joke.

as well as the suns last year.

Thank you. Spur fans fail to see how badly those 06 finals were officiated, and call you an ignorant homer for thinking we got screwed. But then they bitch and moan every time another team gets a couple more calls than they do, fuck you guys. If playing the ref card is weak, then it's weak all the time there are no double standards.

[Princess Pimp]

Yo this series needs a REF thread, I know we won

but man o man, the first three quarters, that black ref was on an agenda.

If we didnt hit our shots, we were done . Were lucky we made shots.


Those refs brought back memories of the 2000-2002 Lakers blatant calls against the Spurs.


I mean WTF was that?

Paul travels nothing, the other end Hornets get the call.


Tony cannot buy a foul, the Finals MVP.


I mean call a fucking game like you see it.


I thought the league learned from that crooked ref.


For the first 3 quarters, the fix was in until the Spurs made too many shots for them to make an appearance.

Whats the black ref's name BTW?
:bang

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080509/capt.524e5c3a9c774a52931de69ccaf30df9.hornets_spur s_basketball_txdp108.jpg

Cry me a river bitch!

[Princess Pimp]

and btw you are DONE! stick a form in those old mothas

[GSH]

Thank you. Spur fans fail to see how badly those 06 finals were officiated, and call you an ignorant homer for thinking we got screwed. But then they bitch and moan every time another team gets a couple more calls than they do, fuck you guys. If playing the ref card is weak, then it's weak all the time there are no double standards.

For the record, the Mavs-Heat Finals was utter bullshit. Nobody would like to see Cuban remain ringless more than me. But I have to admit that he would have one, if not for some astoundingly bad calls.

[SnakeBoy]

Sorry but the Suns fans have full rights to blaming the refs when their team stinks it up. I hate the shiny headed man but in the end the refs don't decide games so why talk about them.

[T Park]

Crawford was not the reason they lost tonight.

[Brutalis]

A lot of whistles tonight.

[Princess Pimp]

Where are the bitches who said having Joey was ok?

:lol

[Louae]

12 free throws in the third quarter for the hornets. 0 for the spurs.

But if the spurs hit their open three pointers, the spurs are still in it. If the spurs are going to win this series, they need to hit their threes b/c the refs are not going to give us any breaks.

[SRJ]

There's no one single factor that accounts for a loss. West and Paul played well tonight. The Spurs were generally passive. And officiating was definitely a factor tonight - the game was not called the same way on both ends.

Oh well. Gotta play better on Thursday and hope the officiating evens out the rest of the way.

[MemphisSpursFan]

Right now, the ONL good thing about the Spurs is the Megan Fox sig!

[spurscenter]

The refs cannot dictate the game when you make your jump shots

when they see an opening they will take the opening to dictate the game as they wish

double Tech early on, lopsided FT , then make it up at the end, so the stat sheet shows close FT shots of both teams

always 1 Ref follows some sort of agenda, either personal or pre-arranged by league down.

the NBA is very corrupt through the refs, it has too much to lose.

i dont blame the loss on the refs but Joey made sure to dictate the flow with his double Technicals and bench T and all that that was very biased vs the spurs.

he was on an agenda for sure from the start.

its not just the spurs, it happens to every team in a series.

Magic got raped by the refs in games 2 and 3.

the non suspension of garnett vs hawks.

shit like that.


NO was (and still is) on the verge of failing in NO hence the ASG this season, its the golden child like Cleveland was last year .


sad when the refs lineup needs to be seen before you can see if you have a fair shot at winning.

the nba attendence was down league wide this season, it doesnt want the TV ratings to crumble as well.

The reason spurs won games 3 and 4 is because they hit their jumpers and did not allow the refs to blow whistles as much as they would of , if it was close by 3-5 pts.

[v2freak]

Thank you. Spur fans fail to see how badly those 06 finals were officiated, and call you an ignorant homer for thinking we got screwed. But then they bitch and moan every time another team gets a couple more calls than they do, fuck you guys. If playing the ref card is weak, then it's weak all the time there are no double standards.

The difference is, Mavericks fans are still bitching about that, despite it being 2 years ago (case in point).

[rascal]

I'm just going to ask you to tone it down a little bit or you may find yourself banned tonight. The hornets won but it wasn't pretty, it wasn't dominant despite the score.

I would use caution if I was you.


Banned for what? What was said that is so offensive?

[Obstructed_View]

12 free throws in the third quarter for the hornets. 0 for the spurs.

But if the spurs hit their open three pointers, the spurs are still in it. If the spurs are going to win this series, they need to hit their threes b/c the refs are not going to give us any breaks.

The Spurs don't award free throws just based on time you spend on the floor. The Spurs didn't go aggressively to the hoop. Duncan had everyone set up for a free throw parade in the second half and never closed the deal. That's on him. Manu and Parker had open lanes to the rim and opportunities to run, and they didn't take them. That's on them. The role players had wide open shots and failed to make them, and in many cases, failed to even attempt them. That's on them.

[ballhog]

Yeah, smells like '06 again. Spurs can't win against 8 on the floor.

[byrontx]

I haven't seen many comments about how physical the Hornets are but I (while admitting my knowledge of the game is limited) thought them to be very physical. Their timing is extremely good, catching the Spurs shooter just on release. The way some of those hips are being thrown around the music over the PA may as well be "The Bump." I know it is play-off basketball but if the refs won't make calls the Spurs get bounced around the floor. Outside of Bowen we don't have anyone that hands it back. I thought Thomas would, he has the look, but I haven't seen it.

[Cry Havoc]

I had better see a VERY physical Spurs team come Game 6.

I want to see Hornets hitting the deck on every play.

Fuck you, NO, you can't beat us the right way, so let's play the bully game.

[Jon1798]

lol, come on guys, you're kidding right? You can't seriously be blaming the refs for getting beat again.

I guess everyone failed to see Tyson Chandler sitting out the first half because of two fouls called on picks that were perfectly legal?? No one saw Manu flop to the floor and make three free throws in the first quarter without even being touched. Tony Parker had two OBVIOUS traveling calls where they called nothing, or Parker spinning and falling to the floor without being touched and the Hornets get a foul. These were just top of my head.

It was a 22 point game. The Spurs lost to a very good team. It happens, let's see how they respond now.

[zepn]

Every third quarter the spurs are in the penalty at the 7 minute mark at the latest! Every fucking game in NO. If this series goes 7 games, Does any spurs fan on this board think that it will be any different in the third quarter of game 7? I don't think so... The ref's are letting the hornets play as physical as they can play and not letting the spurs play physical at all... I love the spurs but it kills me when i watch the game and halftime comes and i ask myself, You know whats about to happen don't you? I hate to be the guy to say that it's the ref's that are screwing the spurs and I know the spurs played like garbage tonight but fuck you guys that have followed this team for a long time know that this shit happens way to often! The reffing takes us out of the game and it always puts the spurs in a hole that they can't dig themselves out of all the time!
One more question. What the fuck is joey crawford doing ever reffing a spurs game? I mean come on! Any spurs fan that does not agree with what i'm saying please correct me cause i wanna hear what you guys think! GO SPURS GO!

+ 1,000,000!

Every third quarter in New Orleans when the Spurs were "aggressive" they got called for fouls. When the Hornets were "aggresive" they were "rewarded" with the calls in their favor, or no-calls against them. The result being that the Spurs had to become less aggressive, the hornets were encouraged to become more aggressive, and they paraded to the line for half of the third quarter. Game over. Again.

I wouldn't say anything (and I haven't) if it hadn't been EVERY third quarter in New Orleans. But three times in a row is a little obvious, Stu. Guess you want the Lakers next opponent to be plenty beat.:greedy :(

[Jon1798]

+ 1,000,000!

Every third quarter in New Orleans when the Spurs were "aggressive" they got called for fouls. When the Hornets were "aggresive" they were "rewarded" with the calls in their favor, or no-calls against them. The result being that the Spurs had to become less aggressive, the hornets were encouraged to become more aggressive, and they paraded to the line for half of the third quarter. Game over. Again.

I wouldn't say anything (and I haven't) if it hadn't been EVERY third quarter in New Orleans. But three times in a row is a little obvious, Stu. Guess you want the Lakers next opponent to be plenty beat.:greedy :(


Just throwing this out there. The last time it happened was in San Antonio. Remeber Byron being upset that we didn't attack more after that.

[GrandeDavid]

No calls, no excuses. Take it strong to the rack, and no gay sideways telegraphed oafish finger rolls by Duncan begging to get slammed through the hardwood by even a New Orleans guard. :rolleyes

The Spurs change their attitude in by Game 6 and get aggressive on offense, they'll get calls.

[zepn]

Just throwing this out there. The last time it happened was in San Antonio. Remeber Byron being upset that we didn't attack more after that.

I'm pretty sure they don't care who wins this series as long as it goes to seven games.

And game seven will be a blood-bath. The refs will swallow their whistles that night, except as needed to keep the game close so the mutual beatings continue.

[Ginofan]

lol, come on guys, you're kidding right? You can't seriously be blaming the refs for getting beat again.

I guess everyone failed to see Tyson Chandler sitting out the first half because of two fouls called on picks that were perfectly legal?? No one saw Manu flop to the floor and make three free throws in the first quarter without even being touched. Tony Parker had two OBVIOUS traveling calls where they called nothing, or Parker spinning and falling to the floor without being touched and the Hornets get a foul. These were just top of my head.

It was a 22 point game. The Spurs lost to a very good team. It happens, let's see how they respond now.

Seems familiar...:reading

[mFFL03]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

pop should have been thrown out of the game for slapping a refs hand

[Ginofan]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

pop should have been thrown out of the game for slapping a refs hand

And a ref should be fined for touching a coach or a player.

[Jon1798]

Seems familiar...:reading

Vaguely yes. :downspin:

[gospursgojas]

I had better see a VERY physical Spurs team come Game 6.

I want to see Hornets hitting the deck on every play.

Fuck you, NO, you can't beat us the right way, so let's play the bully game.

The Spurs can always play physical if the refs allow it.

A bully game wont happen from the Spurs. Pop won't allow it

[Parkerlooms]

I swear Pop told Joe Crawford "get your fuckin hands off me".

The reffing was shit. its obvious. No, bad officiating should not decide a game, but it definitely doesnt help.

the Hornets didnt commit their first team foul in the third quarter until there was about 2 minutes left. In a playoff game? Thats unheard of.
The spurs on the other hand were in the penalty with 9 or so minutes left.

Hell even Reggie Miller used the word conspiracy last night.

[ballhog]

lol, come on guys, you're kidding right? You can't seriously be blaming the refs for getting beat again.

I guess everyone failed to see Tyson Chandler sitting out the first half because of two fouls called on picks that were perfectly legal?? No one saw Manu flop to the floor and make three free throws in the first quarter without even being touched. Tony Parker had two OBVIOUS traveling calls where they called nothing, or Parker spinning and falling to the floor without being touched and the Hornets get a foul. These were just top of my head.

It was a 22 point game. The Spurs lost to a very good team. It happens, let's see how they respond now.

Chandler is just a hacker. When you set a pick, you can't throw your elbows into the back of the guys head. Yeah, Parker travels but Paul carries the ball nearly all the time. I noticed that every time Paul fell down, there was a whistle shortly thereafter. Don't tell me that the Hornets didn't get the upside of the calls. Oh yeah----Manu did flop. Trying to tell me that Paul has never done that?

[Jon1798]

I swear Pop told Joe Crawford "get your fuckin hands off me".

The reffing was shit. its obvious. No, bad officiating should not decide a game, but it definitely doesnt help.

the Hornets didnt commit their first team foul in the third quarter until there was about 2 minutes left. In a playoff game? Thats unheard of.
The spurs on the other hand were in the penalty with 9 or so minutes left.

Hell even Reggie Miller used the word conspiracy last night.

He used the word acting in regards to the Spurs too.

[Jon1798]

Chandler is just a hacker. When you set a pick, you can't throw your elbows into the back of the guys head. Yeah, Parker travels but Paul carries the ball nearly all the time. I noticed that every time Paul fell down, there was a whistle shortly thereafter. Don't tell me that the Hornets didn't get the upside of the calls. Oh yeah----Manu did flop. Trying to tell me that Paul has never done that?


Tyson was covering his junk on the pics. It's almost impossible to do that and throw your elbows out at the same time. The only reason he was called was because Tony didn't see it coming and is half his size, that's a perfectly legal play, even Tony knows it.

And for the rest, I don't know what to say. Ya'll are claiming a loss by the refs while at the same time admitting ya'll get away with all of the same things. Is that the argument?

It was pretty obvious why the Hornets won last night. They outplayed the Spurs, just like the Spurs out played them in game 4. To say anything otherwise is childish.

[Dex]

Pop didn't help anything by showing up Crawford and the refs over a fucking double delay of game call. It seemed like immediately after that fiasco, we stopped getting any benefit of the doubt.

Talk about picking your battles, Pop.

And I agree with this sentiment. I hate bitching about the officials because every team has to deal with them, but if you're gonna allow for a physical game, you gotta call it the same on both sides. 4 out of 5 of these games have been ridiculously one-sided in favor of the Hornets, and I'm not math guru or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not half.

[zepn]

There are three separate issues that many people confuse.

The first is whether any NBA game (especially playoff games) are shaded via the referees to help one team beat the other. The second is if there is any reason to discuss it. The third issue is if anything can be done about it.

Only the most hard-core head-in-the-sand types will argue that no NBA game has ever been shaded. There are far too many example for this to be disputed. Many will mistakenly deny it (ironically while confirming it) because "there's nothing you can do about it so just shut-up and play harder" or "stop being a homer" or "it's weak to blame the refs" or "every team's fans think they get robbed". But to state that it has never happened in the past nor will it ever happen again is simply denial.

So, NBA games have been and will be shaded. Is there any reason to discuss it? Well, this is a discussion board so, absolutely. Also, I very seriously doubt that most people would not at least have a discussion if someone was cheating them at cards, or cheating them on their salary, etc. In any case, if you don't want to discuss it then go to a different thread instead of sniping at those that do. Denial of shading is obviously stupid, and not the "don't be a homer" moral high-ground for your evangelizing.

Shading happens and discussing it is appropriate. Can anything be done about it? By us? Probably not, other than to point out obvious examples to the NBA so the realize that they aren't fooling anyone. On the court, by the teams? I think there could be some quality discussion on this. Most calls will be made in the paint so a team that can hit the outside jumpers will fare better than a team that must drive the lane. On defense I would think denying entry into the lane where the refs can call anything they want, and forcing the other team into jumpers will also result in fewer calls.

[samikeyp]

No calls, no excuses. Take it strong to the rack, and no gay sideways telegraphed oafish finger rolls by Duncan begging to get slammed through the hardwood by even a New Orleans guard. :rolleyes

The Spurs change their attitude in by Game 6 and get aggressive on offense, they'll get calls.

Thank you.

Many here were all over those Hornets fans who dropped the Ref card after Games 3 and 4. You can't call someone out for that....then do the same thing.

Refs don't win or lose games, players do.

Now lets get Game 6. :flag:

[VaSpursFan]

whining about the refs is pointless. it's a circumstance you cannot control. The Spurs control how they play and the sooner we realize it's us against the world and play accordingly, the better off we will be. it's time for smashmouth basketball, man up, be ready for contact and play with reckless abandon until you hear a whistle.

[zepn]

Refs don't win or lose games, players do.

Wrong.

In a game of two nearly equal teams giving nearly equal amounts of effort, as in many playoff games, the refs can and often do decide the games.

.

[zepn]

whining about the refs is pointless. it's a circumstance you cannot control. The Spurs control how they play and the sooner we realize it's us against the world and play accordingly, the better off we will be. it's time for smashmouth basketball, man up, be ready for contact and play with reckless abandon until you hear a whistle.

Whining is pointless. Discussion is not.

[Strike]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

pop should have been thrown out of the game for slapping a refs hand

So what should happen to crawford for poking Pop in the chest?

[samikeyp]

Wrong.

In a game of two nearly equal teams giving nearly equal amounts of effort, as in many playoff games, the refs can and often do decide the games.

.

I disagree.


Whining is pointless. Discussion is not.

I do though, agree with that.

[samikeyp]

So what should happen to crawford for poking Pop in the chest?

If a player or coach would have done that, they would have been suspended. I think the same punishment should apply.

[Jon1798]

There are a lot of logical, true basketball people on this board, so I won't be too harsh, but some of you are such homers. It's funny.

What were the scores? 18, 19 and 21 or something like that. I could list no short of 10 BLATANT plays that the Spurs got away with just last night. And most won't or can't even argue it. I've listed a few already, how about when West drives on Duncan and Duncan bumps him behind the backboard, and then hits his arm as he comes around the other side, and no call. That's not physical defense? What did Duncan have, one, maybe two fouls? Probably no more than 3 in any game the whole series.

This whole series every time Duncan drives the ball it's a foul, and 1. How many times did he drive the ball last night, and does anyone really think his shots that were blocked weren't clean?

Everyone knows Manu flops, Manu runs with the ball, Parker travels, Parker was on the ground 5 times crying in the first half alone and didn't even have one red mark.

Anyone remember the back to back blatant over the backs, ending with Duncan going over Tyson's head to get a rebound. Duncan could have been sitting the bench like they made Tyson.

But no, some of you are upset about losing, so have to find some reason why you were cheated, cause god forbid you just actually lost to a good team. I have no problem saying the Hornets lost to a VERY good Spurs team in SA, and they did not show up at all for game 4. Is it so difficult to swallow that the Spurs took a whooping? Cause it's happened 3 times, and the excuses are getting old fast.

[ether]

I think some of you guys need to chill with complaining about the refs so much. As a fan with no particular rooting interests in this series, (I'm a knick fan) I can honestly tell you that I feel both teams have gotten their fair (or unfair) share of awful calls in this series. There have been times where I've thought bruce bowen has mugged Peja (the best FT shooter in the league and gotten away with it) and other times where I thought Tim Duncan was clearly fouled in the act of shooting and nothing was called (last night in particular). The point is that these are intense playoff games and the refs are not going to get every call right. However, there are two rather important realities to grasp here:

1) Generally speaking, bad calls even out over the course of a long series. It's just a statistical verity. Unless you are one of these morons who actually believes the NBA instructs their refs to favor one team or another , (and if you believe this you are a culturally paranoid person and should talk to a mental healthcare professional soon) then you reailze that some calls go your way and others don't and that is just the way life is.

2) In the three games the spurs have lost this series, they have lost by an average of 20 points. As we all know, they have had small leads at halftime and have been completely obliterated in the second half of each game. In other words, they haven't been competitive down the stretch and NO GAME IN THIS SERIES has come down to a bad call (or even 5 bad calls for that matter). Once you realize this fundamental truth, you realize how utterly silly it is to be complaining about the refs.

Finally, I want to reiterate that I do not have a rooting interest in this series. I just love the NBA and have tremendous respect for the spurs and their dominance these last ten years. I also think Tim Duncan is an all time great player and is one of my personal favorites because he's always played the game the right way.( You can make an argument that he is the best defensive big man of all time - maybe with the exception of Bill Russel. ) Also, I do believe the spurs can still win this series but it's going to be tough. We've all underestimated the hornets. They are quite good and have a wonderful future. Good luck spurs fans.

[zepn]

If you do not believe the NBA has ever had the referee's shade a game then you are incredibly naive. They have done it, they are doing it, and they will do it in the future. Given the choice between fair competition or higher profits, which do you think they will choose?

Never forget that the NBA is a BUSINESS whose product is ENTERTAINMENT. Did you see any mention of "sport" or "fair play" in that sentence? No. They only give lip-service to that notion to the extent that it would damage their BUSINESS if they didn't.

It is easy for them to make the calls even-out over the course of a series, or even a game, and still manipulate the outcome. Case in point: every third quarter in New Orleans. When the Spurs played "aggressively" they were immediately called for fouls and quickly stopped playing "aggressively". When the Hornets played "aggressively" the Spurs were called for fouls and the Hornets continued playing "aggressively". Each game had been a very close match until then.

Also, don't you find it interesting that the NBA can publish the complete schedule of NBA games months in advance, but they can't manage to publish the refs until the day before? Once again, if you don't think certain referees are selected for certain games for certain reasons you are incredibly naive.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's weak sauce to blame officiating on the outcome of any game -- and particularly a game decided by 15+ points like last night's was. Were there some calls that went against the Spurs? Sure. Did those calls cost them the game? I'm hard-pressed to believe that those calls would have inflated a poor shooting percentage or instilled aggressiveness that was completely absent from the Spurs performance in Game 5. On top of that, it's faulty to assume that all of the missed calls would have been favorable to the Spurs; a better officiated game might have benefitted New Orleans in other ways as well.

Were the officials bad and inconsistent last night? I thought they were. Did that decide the game? Absolutely not.

If you want to win, score more points; play better defense; be more aggressive; play through the calls. The Spurs did none of those things last night. They deserved to lose that game.

[zepn]

It's weak sauce to blame officiating on the outcome of any game


I'm not sure what your definition of "sauce" is, and I won't lose sleep over what you think of mine, but I will repeat my contention that it is incredibly naive of anyone to think the NBA does not shade certain playoff games/series. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

[samikeyp]

I'm not sure what your definition of "sauce" is, and I won't lose sleep over what you think of mine, but I will repeat my contention that it is incredibly naive of anyone to think the NBA does not shade certain playoff games/series. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

and I will repeat my contention that players control their own destinies. Just because you think its naive to think the other way doesn't actually make it so. and vice versa.

This is an argument with no winners. We can move on or continue beating the dead horse.

[zepn]

it's faulty to assume that all of the missed calls would have been favorable to the Spurs

I never said ALL of the missed calls would have favored the Spurs. Some referees certainly possess the ability to be incompetent as well as corrupt, as it would be counterproductive for them to miss calls against the team they were attemting to hinder.

[samikeyp]

Some referees certainly possess the ability to be incompetent

:lol

now THAT I agree with! :)

[zepn]

and I will repeat my contention that players control their own destinies. Just because you think its naive to think the other way doesn't actually make it so. and vice versa.

This is an argument with no winners. We can move on or continue beating the dead horse.

Let's beat this one a bit longer.

So you think refs have never shaded a game? Ever? Seriously?

[samikeyp]

Let's beat this one a bit longer.

So you think refs have never shaded a game? Ever? Seriously?

I can't say because I have no proof. I have seen refs miss calls but have not seen any evidence that a pre-mediated effort was made to intentionally make bad calls or miss correct ones in order to help determine the outcome of a game.

[ballhog]

There are a lot of logical, true basketball people on this board, so I won't be too harsh, but some of you are such homers. It's funny.

What were the scores? 18, 19 and 21 or something like that. I could list no short of 10 BLATANT plays that the Spurs got away with just last night. And most won't or can't even argue it. I've listed a few already, how about when West drives on Duncan and Duncan bumps him behind the backboard, and then hits his arm as he comes around the other side, and no call. That's not physical defense? What did Duncan have, one, maybe two fouls? Probably no more than 3 in any game the whole series.

This whole series every time Duncan drives the ball it's a foul, and 1. How many times did he drive the ball last night, and does anyone really think his shots that were blocked weren't clean?

Everyone knows Manu flops, Manu runs with the ball, Parker travels, Parker was on the ground 5 times crying in the first half alone and didn't even have one red mark.

Anyone remember the back to back blatant over the backs, ending with Duncan going over Tyson's head to get a rebound. Duncan could have been sitting the bench like they made Tyson.

But no, some of you are upset about losing, so have to find some reason why you were cheated, cause god forbid you just actually lost to a good team. I have no problem saying the Hornets lost to a VERY good Spurs team in SA, and they did not show up at all for game 4. Is it so difficult to swallow that the Spurs took a whooping? Cause it's happened 3 times, and the excuses are getting old fast.

Took a whooping? The game was pretty close most of the way. A blowout is when the other team is up 20 in the first half and stays there or increases. Just because they put some at the end, doesn't make it blowout, moron. The Spurs lost, not because of the refs, but because the Hornets wanted it more. Was there bad officiating.....yes. Almost a whole quarter of playoff basketball not getting into the penalty.....a joke. Joey Crawford should not be reffing playoff games for a while.

[zepn]

I can't say because I have no proof. I have seen refs miss calls but have not seen any evidence that a pre-mediated effort was made to intentionally make bad calls or miss correct ones in order to help determine the outcome of a game.

You CAN say because you have an opinion.

Nobody, especially the NBA with an attorney at the top, is going to hand you folder detailing their illegal behavior.

Here are a couple of quick, obvious examples: You didn't see the 2006 Finals? And maybe it's not NBA top-down related, but if Tim Donaghy was not throwing calls why was he useful to the gambling interests?

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not sure what your definition of "sauce" is, and I won't lose sleep over what you think of mine, but I will repeat my contention that it is incredibly naive of anyone to think the NBA does not shade certain playoff games/series. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

Honestly, if I believed any of that, I'd stop watching the NBA.

[Get Buzzin]

Get over it! Don't depend on the refs to bail your slow sorry team out of a hole they put themselves into:lmao

Game 6: The Hornets are going to run the Spurs all night. Duncan, Manu, Bowen, Parker, Thomas are going to be huffin' and puffin' for air:lmao

[zepn]

Let's be clear, I am not arguing that your favorite team or player may or may not be able to overcome corrupt officiating.

I am arguing that corrupt officiating exists.

Does anyone here seriously not believe that statement is true?

[samikeyp]

You CAN say because you have an opinion.

Nobody, especially the NBA with an attorney at the top, is going to hand you folder detailing their illegal behavior.

Here a re a couple of quick, obvious examples: You didn't see the 2006 Finals? And maybe it's not NBA top-down related, but if Tim Donaghy was not throwing calls why was he useful to the gambling interests?

On having an opinion, yes, and I did already say what my opinion was. My point is that all we have are opinions and no one, at least on this board, has facts and without facts, none of us who voice our opinions are right or wrong.

You are wasting your time, friend. You are trying to convince me that you are right and I am wrong and that is just not going to happen. I will state this again...I do not believe that NBA referees or the NBA league office get together and decides before games or before playoff series that they are going to call or not call certain teams a certain way to ensure the outcome of said game or series. Can I tell you that has never happened? No, it may have happened...it may be happening now. I don't know that for sure and neither do you, unless you are in a position of authority in the NBA and if you are...can you score me some tickets? :) The thing alot of people confuse on this board is opinion and fact...one is not neccessarily the other. Because you or someone thinks that the refs decide before a game "well, lets draw this out to a game 7 and call everything on Duncan and nothing on West" doesn't mean that is actually happening. It could be...but it also could not be.

[zepn]

Honestly, if I believed any of that, I'd stop watching the NBA.

Oh come on, parts of it are still fun.

Sorry to burst your bubble though.

[samikeyp]

Let's be clear, I am not arguing that your favorite team or player may or may not be able to overcome corrupt officiating.

I am arguing that corrupt officiating exists.

Does anyone here seriously not believe that statement is true?

I believe inconsistent officiating exists.....and the Donaghy thing proves that an official can be corrupt...but I don't think that one case means that there is more than one. It is possible though and the NBA should be doing all it can to fix that.

[samikeyp]

Let's be clear, I am not arguing that your favorite team or player may or may not be able to overcome corrupt officiating.

You posted this as I was finishing my post.

That was my point all along. Players can and should overcome bad officiating.

I do think that there is a difference between corrupt and bad. Corrupt implies pre-meditation. Bad is just mistakes.

[Jon1798]

Took a whooping? The game was pretty close most of the way. A blowout is when the other team is up 20 in the first half and stays there or increases. Just because they put some at the end, doesn't make it blowout, moron. The Spurs lost, not because of the refs, but because the Hornets wanted it more. Was there bad officiating.....yes. Almost a whole quarter of playoff basketball not getting into the penalty.....a joke. Joey Crawford should not be reffing playoff games for a while.

If both teams pull their starters before the end of the game, it wasn't a close game. I had no idea the definition of whooping = being up by 20 in first half and staying there. Who knew?

BTW, speaking of moron, I never said anything about a blowout, you did. Since the Spurs got beat by about 20 in the third quarter alone, is it fair to say they took a whooping in the third quarter?

Does anyone in this thread complaining about the refs actually dispute the 6 or 7 blatant calls I brought up that went in the Spurs favor? This is so laughable.

It's not, man, the refs missed call XYZ. Instead, it's, well, we were losing and since more fouls were called on the Spurs, they must have been cheating.

Bowen had two fouls on him the whole game. Anyone think he only bumped Peja etc. twice? Remeber when he trips Peja and the ball goes out of bounds, no call? He's basically fouling Peja every trip down the floor. Which I have no problem with if he's getting away with it. That's good basketball.

[Get Buzzin]

The calls were close on the Spurs because they were intent on phyically hurting CP3, West and Chandler. No conspiracy. Pop got angry because because his players were caught. It's not the refs; the Spurs are desperate:nope

Go to NBA.com and download a copy of last night's game. You will see Spurs players setting up Hornet players to hurt them.

[romsho]

The calls were close on the Spurs because they were intent on phyically hurting CP3, West and Chandler. No conspiracy. Pop got angry because because his players were caught. It's not the refs; the Spurs are desperate:nope

Go to NBA.com and download a copy of last night's game. You will see Spurs players setting up Hornet players to hurt them.

Crack is bad for you. Stop doing it.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh come on, parts of it are still fun.

Sorry to burst your bubble though.

You haven't burst my bubble.

I'd hazard a guess that I watch NBA officiating more closely than you do, primarily because I once had concerns that the league's officials were corrupt and were tilting games. I made it a point, though, to watch the officials closely and to know who they are and how they call games. Having studied the officials like that for years, I'm absolutely convinced that there is no conspiracy or corruption. I am convinced that officials are humans, not robots; I am convinced that no two officials call a game the same way; and I am convinced that officials have tendencies that are fairly easy to track. Knowing all of those things and applying them to any particular game, I'm also quite certain that the calls in any given game are simply a combination of idiosyncracies and tendencies that are borne out during the course of the game.

And honestly, there are too many "bad for the league" outcomes for me to believe that the league is directing officials to create particular results.

[zepn]

[QUOTE=samikeyp;2495547]the Donaghy thing proves that an official can be corrupt. QUOTE]

The Donaghy case PROVES that an official WAS corrupt.

What are the odds he was the only corrupt NBA official that ever existed? Ever?

What are the odds he will be the only corrupt NBA official that will ever exist?

So you have proof that officials can be corrupted. And you have proof of at least one corrupt official. Now the question becomes do you think the NBA is more concerned with fair play or profit? One guess...

I know this is all hard to accept because everyone has a vested interest in continuing the fairytale. As fans, we want to believe it is fair, the networks want to keep their income stream, the teams want to keep playing, the owners want to keep making more money...

[samikeyp]

[QUOTE=samikeyp;2495547]the Donaghy thing proves that an official can be corrupt. QUOTE]

The Donaghy case PROVES that an official WAS corrupt.

What are the odds he was the only corrupt NBA official that ever existed? Ever?

What are the odds he will be the only corrupt NBA official that will ever exist?

So you have proof that officials can be corrupted. And you have proof of at least one corrupt official. Now the question becomes do you think the NBA is more concerned with fair play or profit? One guess...

I know this is all hard to accept because everyone has a vested interest in continuing the fairytale. As fans, we want to believe it is fair, the networks want to keep their income stream, the teams want to keep playing, the owners want to keep making more money...

Ok, my turn.....do you believe that corrupt officiating is the reason why the Spurs are down 2-3?

[shelshor]

The calls were close on the Spurs because they were intent on phyically hurting CP3, West and Chandler. No conspiracy. Pop got angry because because his players were caught. It's not the refs; the Spurs are desperate:nope

Go to NBA.com and download a copy of last night's game. You will see Spurs players setting up Hornet players to hurt them.

stop washing your crack with swamp water

[FromWayDowntown]

The Donaghy case PROVES that an official WAS corrupt.

What are the odds he was the only corrupt NBA official that ever existed? Ever?

What are the odds he will be the only corrupt NBA official that will ever exist?

So you have proof that officials can be corrupted. And you have proof of at least one corrupt official. Now the question becomes do you think the NBA is more concerned with fair play or profit? One guess...

I know this is all hard to accept because everyone has a vested interest in continuing the fairytale. As fans, we want to believe it is fair, the networks want to keep their income stream, the teams want to keep playing, the owners want to keep making more money...

Corruption in the Donaghy case and the sort of institutional corruption that you're talking about are two entirely different things. Donaghy wasn't corrupt as a result of anything the league did. You aren't -- as far as I can tell -- suggesting that officials are being corrputed by influences outside of the league; you're saying that officials are being directed by the league to produce particular results if possible. Those are two entirely different things.

[zepn]

My personal opinion is that the NBA really doesn't care who wins this series as long as it goes to seven games.

[zepn]

You haven't burst my bubble.

I'm glad.

[Jon1798]

[QUOTE=zepn;2495581]

Ok, my turn.....do you believe that corrupt officiating is the reason why the Spurs are down 2-3?


I want to play this game. There was a basketball player who took steroids. Therefor, I think all of the Spurs take steroids, and none of their championships were earned.

You think no player takes steroids?


There was a player who took crack. Therefor I think all of the Spurs take crack as well.

You think no players take crack?

[samikeyp]

My personal opinion is that the NBA really doesn't care who wins this series as long as it goes to seven games.

Fair enough. Honestly, if that is the case, it would not surprise me in the least.

[Jon1798]

As was said, the real question is do you really think the refs have cost the Spurs a game?

[zepn]

[QUOTE=zepn;2495581]

Corruption in the Donaghy case and the sort of institutional corruption that you're talking about are two entirely different things. Donaghy wasn't corrupt as a result of anything the league did. You aren't -- as far as I can tell -- suggesting that officials are being corrputed by influences outside of the league; you're saying that officials are being directed by the league to produce particular results if possible. Those are two entirely different things.


In a previous post I qualified that by saying that the Donaghy case was probably not a top-down case of corruption. I used it as an example that officials have absolutely been proven to be corruptable. And that there is at least on official who has been proven to be corrupt.

I don't think many people here would doubt that the NBA, given the choice of let's say (hypothetically), bending a few rules vs. going bankrupt, wouldn't bend those rules. So the NBA is not above bending rules to make money, and officials have proven to be corruptable, so...

The argument can be made at both ends, but you will have to connect the dots yourself. If they were connected for you this would already be in the courts, and I don't mean hardwood.

[FromWayDowntown]

In a previous post I qualified that by saying that the Donaghy case was probably not a top-down case of corruption. I used it as an example that officials have absolutely been proven to be corruptable. And that there is at least on official who has been proven to be corrupt.

I don't think many people here would doubt that the NBA, given the choice of let's say (hypothetically), bending a few rules vs. going bankrupt, wouldn't bend those rules. So the NBA is not above bending rules to make money, and officials have proven to be corruptable, so...

The argument can be made at both ends, but you will have to connect the dots yourself. If they were connected for you this would already be in the courts, and I don't mean hardwood.

So, in essence then, you're taking your supposition and adding to that a completely irrelevant fact to conclude unequivocally that your supposition + a completely irrelevant fact = corruption.

Trust me, if the league wants to stay out of bankruptcy, the most significant thing it can do is assure that it's officials aren't corrupt. The NBA would not remain financially solvent if it was sued for defrauding its customers. And the league would surely be risking just such a suit if it instructed its officials to tilt outcomes. There are simply too many people who would have to be a part of such a conspiracy to think that they all would keep quiet -- particularly given the relatively low salaries paid to on-court officials.

[zepn]

So, in essence then, you're taking your supposition and adding to that a completely irrelevant fact to conclude unequivocally that your supposition + a completely irrelevant fact = corruption.

The fact that at least one official has been PROVEN to be corrupt is absolutely relevant. It proves that officials can in fact be corrupted, and have in fact been corrupted.

The NBA has broken rules to increase their marketing/income. One of the most recent examples would be KG not getting suspended for pushing a ref. So we have also proven that the NBA will, and already has in fact broken rules for their own financial gain.

These are called "supporting arguments".

So, the NBA currently breaks rules for their own financial gain, and they have at their disposal officials who have proven in the past to be corruptible. It is not much of a stretch to say that the NBA might use corrupt officials to break rules for their own financial gain, now is it?

Also, it would require very few people to achieve the desired outcomes and I doubt Stern would publish color brochures on "How to Throw an NBA Game for Fun and Profit".

[SPURS50]

Zepn has alot of good points! Any fan that says officiating has nothing to do with the outcome of a game is not watching the games being played.

[Cry Havoc]

Tyson was covering his junk on the pics. It's almost impossible to do that and throw your elbows out at the same time. The only reason he was called was because Tony didn't see it coming and is half his size, that's a perfectly legal play, even Tony knows it.

And for the rest, I don't know what to say. Ya'll are claiming a loss by the refs while at the same time admitting ya'll get away with all of the same things. Is that the argument?

It was pretty obvious why the Hornets won last night. They outplayed the Spurs, just like the Spurs out played them in game 4. To say anything otherwise is childish.

Would it make you feel better if I think that Stern talked to the officials about giving the home team the benefit of the doubt in playoff games this year?

*edit* For the record, a friend of mine who's a Bulls fan says he's disgusted with the officiating overall in the playoffs this year.

Think about it.

The most hyped playoffs since Jordan.

The deepest West EVER.

Round 1 completely dominated by the top 4 seeds, against what some analysts said would contain at least 3 or 4 game 7's between the two conferences.

And then all of a sudden, we have home teams in the 2nd round go 17-1.

Do you really think it's a coincidence?

I'll be the first to admit the Spurs get favorable officiating at home, which is even more exacerbated in these playoffs.

Officials are swallowing their whistles when the home team has the ball, and calling ticky tack fouls on the other end.

This is happening in EVERY GAME.

17-1.

Spurs just went from a 20 point blowout to a 23 point spanking in the opposite direction.

Now, obviously some of it is the players.

And some of it says that 17-1 is just too handy of a coincidence for the League. Just too much money to be made out there for this to work so conveniently in the NBAs favor.

Does this mean that the Spurs couldnt have beaten the Hornets last night if their intensity had been about 47 notches higher? No. It was a very winnable game.

Does it also mean that a ref can very easily handcuff a team into playing a much less physical style of defense with just a couple of calls? Absolutely.

These teams are relatively evenly matched. A couple of calls can build momentum.

And there is no way you can convince me that 17-1 is just "chance". There aren't even odds to support the home team winning that often.

And not just winning, but destroying the visiting team. And then the very next game they themselves are dismantled. So we either have a situation where the home court has in the course of a single playoffs (between rounds, no less!) become so much of a factor that it completely controls every game except one, or there is something else at work here.

Myself? I believe it's a combination. I think the home teams are bringing more intensity to the game, and by the same token I think the refs are allowing the home teams in EVERY series to be more physical, get away with touch fouls, and generally look the other way to please the crowd. It makes sense in a business strategy. Push the games to at least 6 and THEN tell the refs to back off.

[samikeyp]

Zepn has alot of good points! Any fan that says officiating has nothing to do with the outcome of a game is not watching the games being played.

I have watched basketball since the 70's and still do not believe the NBA pre-determines outcomes of those games. I may be wrong, but have not seen actual proof that they do...just theories and speculation.

[pooh]

I have watched basketball since the 70's and still do not believe the NBA pre-determines outcomes of those games. I may be wrong, but have not seen actual proof that they do...just theories and speculation.

I respect Mikey's opinion...however, of all the big four sports, the NBA is the only league that gives preferencial treatment to stars and hometeams. I think it isn't really fair, but as long as you have an commish like Stern, who lets things go without giving it a glance is just horrible.

if they called the game straight up...stars like MJ, Magic, Bird, Robinson, Duncan would foul out nearly every night. Yes I know that Shaq does...and a majority of the time, the big men get called for fouls, and that's a gimmie. of course they would say, well you pay good money to see the stars play, you should see them on the court for a lengthly period...however, it should be played right down the middle, they foul out...they foul out. They have no one to blame but themselves, you know?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Wrong.

In a game of two nearly equal teams giving nearly equal amounts of effort, as in many playoff games, the refs can and often do decide the games.

.

But just in even years, right?

[zepn]

But just in even years, right?

Whenever the powers that be perceive the benefit is larger than the cost. Very few games are outright "thrown" like in the 2006 Finals. Most are "shaded" just enough to make it very difficult for one team to win. But that doesn't mean they CAN'T win.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Whenever they perceive the benefit is larger than the cost.



So putting the 43rd-53rd TV market in the WCF outweighs losing all credibility as a professional sports entity?

I think you nailed it.

[zepn]

So putting the 43rd-53rd TV market in the WCF outweighs losing all credibility as a professional sports entity?

I think you nailed it.

Uh, no.

I don't think the NBA cares who wins the Spurs/Hornets series as long as it goes to seven games and they beat each other up badly enough to give the Lakers their best shot at advancing.

David Stern famously said his dream match-up in the Finals would be the Lakers vs. the Lakers. What a dick. Guess he was just showing some of that "credibility" you were talking about...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Uh, no.

I don't think the NBA cares who wins the Spurs/Hornets series as long as it goes to seven games and they beat each other up badly enough to give the Lakers their best shot at advancing.

David Stern famously said his dream match-up in the Finals would be the Lakers vs. the Lakers. What a dick.

Oh, gotcha. And letting the Jazz win a few games is just a front right? And telling Kobe to act like he has a bad back?

Pure genius.

Wag the Dog II: Electric Boogaloo?

[Cry Havoc]

So putting the 43rd-53rd TV market in the WCF outweighs losing all credibility as a professional sports entity?

I think you nailed it.

If the Tim Donaghy scandal wasn't enough to seriously damage the NBA's reputation when there was CLEAR evidence of tampering, I seriously doubt some dubious officiating is going to do anything to worsen or help the league's image.

[Brutalis]

The home teams get away with calls and shit in this series.

NO at home has more of an advantage as SA at home. I don't care what noob or reg thinks different, if you watched the fucking games it's clear. Oberto knocked clean to the floor... Parker hammered in the lane yet Paul gets the calls with lesser contact?

You are frankly a dumb ass if you don't think SA got shafted last night. They did.

However our play on the court wouldn't have made the difference in the score regardless.

Therefor it's easy for idiots to say, Spurs just didn't show up. Well no fucking shit they didn't show up, but they got it handed to them on a silver platter all game long by that bald fuck.

Tired of the good guy coy. We don't always have to just deal. It's okay sometimes you know. We don't always NOT get screwed. It's okay to admit it for once.

SA got home court calls at home. But NO gets away with murder. And the Spurs just shut down soon after.

No more stupid shit about being lazy and not playing with fire and bullshit. Kinda hard to when you're not allowed to begin with.

[Spurs Brazil]

I think the refs are fine in this series

If you want to see how bad a ref can do go watch the Mavs series in 06. That year the refs killed us

[manufor3]

Delaney and Kennedy were pathetic.

Javie was fantastic though.

Delaney and Kennedy were trying to impose their will in that third quarter for some reason.

Delany Donohay!

[zepn]

Oh, gotcha. And letting the Jazz win a few games is just a front right? And telling Kobe to act like he has a bad back?

We have already been over this. Why don't you read the other posts before rehashing it?

Ref's don't shade every game. They don't even shade most games, only a few select ones that might make a difference. And as has already been stated that does not mean that the team that is being shaded against will not win, or the Spurs and Pistons would have never made the finals.

They would obviously prefer Kobe to be healthy so why would they want him to act like he has a bad back?

[spurscenter]

There are three separate issues that many people confuse.

The first is whether any NBA game (especially playoff games) are shaded via the referees to help one team beat the other. The second is if there is any reason to discuss it. The third issue is if anything can be done about it.

Only the most hard-core head-in-the-sand types will argue that no NBA game has ever been shaded. There are far too many example for this to be disputed. Many will mistakenly deny it (ironically while confirming it) because "there's nothing you can do about it so just shut-up and play harder" or "stop being a homer" or "it's weak to blame the refs" or "every team's fans think they get robbed". But to state that it has never happened in the past nor will it ever happen again is simply denial.

So, NBA games have been and will be shaded. Is there any reason to discuss it? Well, this is a discussion board so, absolutely. Also, I very seriously doubt that most people would not at least have a discussion if someone was cheating them at cards, or cheating them on their salary, etc. In any case, if you don't want to discuss it then go to a different thread instead of sniping at those that do. Denial of shading is obviously stupid, and not the "don't be a homer" moral high-ground for your evangelizing.

Shading happens and discussing it is appropriate. Can anything be done about it? By us? Probably not, other than to point out obvious examples to the NBA so the realize that they aren't fooling anyone. On the court, by the teams? I think there could be some quality discussion on this. Most calls will be made in the paint so a team that can hit the outside jumpers will fare better than a team that must drive the lane. On defense I would think denying entry into the lane where the refs can call anything they want, and forcing the other team into jumpers will also result in fewer calls.

well said partna

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Would it make you feel better if I think that Stern talked to the officials about giving the home team the benefit of the doubt in playoff games this year?

*edit* For the record, a friend of mine who's a Bulls fan says he's disgusted with the officiating overall in the playoffs this year.

Think about it.

The most hyped playoffs since Jordan.

The deepest West EVER.

Round 1 completely dominated by the top 4 seeds, against what some analysts said would contain at least 3 or 4 game 7's between the two conferences.

And then all of a sudden, we have home teams in the 2nd round go 17-1.

Do you really think it's a coincidence?

I'll be the first to admit the Spurs get favorable officiating at home, which is even more exacerbated in these playoffs.

Officials are swallowing their whistles when the home team has the ball, and calling ticky tack fouls on the other end.

This is happening in EVERY GAME.

17-1.

Spurs just went from a 20 point blowout to a 23 point spanking in the opposite direction.

Now, obviously some of it is the players.

And some of it says that 17-1 is just too handy of a coincidence for the League. Just too much money to be made out there for this to work so conveniently in the NBAs favor.

Does this mean that the Spurs couldnt have beaten the Hornets last night if their intensity had been about 47 notches higher? No. It was a very winnable game.

Does it also mean that a ref can very easily handcuff a team into playing a much less physical style of defense with just a couple of calls? Absolutely.

These teams are relatively evenly matched. A couple of calls can build momentum.

And there is no way you can convince me that 17-1 is just "chance". There aren't even odds to support the home team winning that often.

And not just winning, but destroying the visiting team. And then the very next game they themselves are dismantled. So we either have a situation where the home court has in the course of a single playoffs (between rounds, no less!) become so much of a factor that it completely controls every game except one, or there is something else at work here.

Myself? I believe it's a combination. I think the home teams are bringing more intensity to the game, and by the same token I think the refs are allowing the home teams in EVERY series to be more physical, get away with touch fouls, and generally look the other way to please the crowd. It makes sense in a business strategy. Push the games to at least 6 and THEN tell the refs to back off.

This is to your last sentence: How would you explain no foul call on the Hedo drive in G4? Magic down 1 with a few seconds left, plenty of contact and Max probably had a foot in the semi circle.

Opportunity was there, why didn't they make the call?

[zepn]

well said partna

Thanks Spurscenter!

And thanks also to Spurs50 for the kind words!

[Cry Havoc]

This is to your last sentence: How would you explain no foul call on the Hedo drive in G4? Magic down 1 with a few seconds left, plenty of contact and Max probably had a foot in the semi circle.

Opportunity was there, why didn't they make the call?

18-0. Yeah, that would definitely look convincing for a 2nd round playoff tree.

[spurscenter]

guys watching

Lakers vs Utah

Game is close , 4 points

and the refs are showing up all of a sudden, whistle happy.

3 consecutive no calls against the lakers (obvious fouls on boozer), and then all calls for lakers on the other end (touch fouls)

then the foul on Andrei K. by the far end ref when the ball went of Vujacic leg. its was so obvious.

lakers now up 8 points when Utah got to 3.

Bullshit Refs.

If it wasnt for the 3 pointer by Deron, this would be 12 point game.

something is going on guys.

[spurscenter]

The Joey Crawford Effect


SPURS FT ATTEMPTS

SAN ANTONIO
GAME 1 - 21
GAME 2 - 19
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 20
GAME 5 - 18

Pretty Consistent Huh,?

Then New Orleans
GAME 1 - 15
GAME 2 - 24
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 12
GAME 5 - 33

lol

Buck Harvey: Popovich joins the crowd; as he always preached, it won't matter

Gregg Popovich has crossed over into the land of George Karl and Phil Jackson. Give him another week, and he might wad up a stat sheet, as Mike D'Antoni once did at a postgame press conference in San Antonio, and hurl it in anger.

Popovich is now referring to how many free throws the Hornets shot compared with the Spurs, and by doing so he's complaining and sending out a message.

Popovich never believed this between-game spin worked. So what changed?

Ultimately, he did.

Popovich has always felt the same frustration that Karl, Jackson and others have before. Maybe he just can't hold it in anymore.

He did two years ago, the last time the Spurs came home facing elimination. A delay-of-game call was part of that equation, too.

Dick Bavetta stuck the Spurs with their second delay in Game 4 in Dallas, resulting in a technical foul and free throw. The Spurs were also standing at the free-throw line then, and the opponent was also shooting. Then, however, the call came with just 3:43 left in the game.

One point mattered. The Spurs lost in overtime.

Popovich was still upset about the previous loss in Dallas. Then a ref whistled a sixth foul on Tim Duncan when Dirk Nowitzki drove and stepped on Duncan's foot.

The ref was Joey Crawford.

The Spurs complained through official channels then, as they likely did this week. But publicly Popovich stopped short in 2006.

“Let me just say that some things at the end of games are in the teams' control and some things aren't in the teams' control,” Popovich said at the time. “And it's best to probably concentrate on what can be controlled by us.”

That had always been Popovich's creed. He believed in what Jerry Sloan believed, that blaming refs only provides an out for the players. Popovich won four championships this way.

Popovich has always tried to limit his players from complaining on the court, too. Earlier this season, when Manu Ginobili kept arguing with a ref, Popovich told Ginobili to shut up and sit down.

Now Ginobili is the one more upset with how the Spurs played Tuesday. He was visibly angry after the game — and not because of the calls in the third quarter.

At least Ginobili learned his lesson from earlier in the season. “We talked too much,” Ginobili said of Game 5. “We've just got to let Pop do that.”

Popovich did enough talking for all of them in New Orleans, and that's nothing new. He has worked the refs during games for a decade.

But then came Wednesday. Composed and sarcastic-free in front of a media group, Popovich sounded as he never has.

“You know, Timmy took 18 shots and shot one free throw,” he said. “They (the Hornets) shot 13 free throws in the third quarter, and we shot zero. I thought we were at the rim as much as they were. So we have got to figure out how to get to the line.”

By the standards of Karl and Jackson, that's tame. None of these words will draw a fine, nor will they make headlines across the country. Furthermore, Popovich made sure to praise the Hornets, which was always part of the previous pattern.

Still, Popovich's approach Wednesday was a dramatic departure, and, knowing Popovich, he had thought this through. He figured, this time, he would make an exception because of Crawford.

This time Duncan didn't need to hear again how he had to ignore the refs. This was Crawford, after all. Popovich likely told himself that, this one time, he would cross over.

But that just made him another guy with a gripe. Other coaches complain for the same reasons, with the same frustrations, with other refs. Popovich's pitch was remarkable only in that it was a first for him.

None of it will matter tonight. The Spurs will win if they are as smart as they were in Game 4, and if Duncan is as active and as decisive as he was then. The Spurs will win if they play defense and rebound and attack, not because of a few words said in front of cameras.

Which is what Popovich always said before.

[SPURS50]

The second half of game 5 between the lakers and jazz was a complete joke! The reffing would not allow the jazz to take the lead or get anything going. Cheap touch fouls called on the jazz and non calls on the lakers in the second half. It happened way to often to go unnoticed. One play in particular when i think it was odom dunked the ball and got the +1 in the forth quarter, He wasn't even touched and the whistles are going off! I have a hard time watching games and not just laughing cause it's obvious how bad the ref's have been! Even if the spurs or jazz can force game 7's I don't think there's much chance that you'll see either team advance for the simple fact that the road team's can't play physical. The only chance spurs or jazz have if they force game 7's is if they happen to shoot 50% from the floor and rebound well because they aren't gonna be shooting to many free throws!

I hope i'm wrong though!

[spurscenter]

The second half of game 5 between the lakers and jazz was a complete joke! The reffing would not allow the jazz to take the lead or get anything going. Cheap touch fouls called on the jazz and non calls on the lakers in the second half. It happened way to often to go unnoticed. One play in particular when i think it was odom dunked the ball and got the +1 in the forth quarter, He wasn't even touched and the whistles are going off! I have a hard time watching games and not just laughing cause it's obvious how bad the ref's have been! Even if the spurs or jazz can force game 7's I don't think there's much chance that you'll see either team advance for the simple fact that the road team's can't play physical. The only chance spurs or jazz have if they force game 7's is if they happen to shoot 50% from the floor and rebound well because they aren't gonna be shooting to many free throws!

I hope i'm wrong though!

no, your right

it was utter bullshit

the minute Utah got to 81-81, the refs were on a mission from stern .

it was amazing how biased theywere to the Lakers.

The jazz were robbed many times

Carlos Boozer was being hacked and no calls. he just laughed.

The NBA is rigged this year more than ever

LAKERS vs CELTICS , book it.

[Jon1798]

So in general, the Spurs shot more free throws than the Hornets up until game 5, and now the Hornets get more free throws and it's a huge conspiracy. Am I the only person that actually watched the game? Tim shot 18 horrible shots. He shot fade aways, 18 footers, he was blocked a few times, and I don't think anyone would question how clean they were.

The Hornets shot so many free throws because they were beating their men. You don't want the Hornets to shoot so many free throws, don't give them BS technical shots, don't pull Chandler down when he's going for a lob, don't turn the ball over so much that Horry has to foul Chris Paul on a fast break, don't PURPOSELY foul Ely and Tyson in order to put them at the line(which even though they do this, the Spurs still have in general shot more foul shots), don't let Chris Paul get into the lane whenever he wants, and try to at least slow down David West.

I love how people use a stat sheet when they have no examples. The Hornets outplayed the Spurs. They beat them all around the court, and that caused the Spurs to foul them. The Spurs didn't deserve the shots they got. Ask Manu and Tony.

[v2freak]

So in general, the Spurs shot more free throws than the Hornets up until game 5, and now the Hornets get more free throws and it's a huge conspiracy. Am I the only person that actually watched the game? Tim shot 18 horrible shots. He shot fade aways, 18 footers, he was blocked a few times, and I don't think anyone would question how clean they were.

The Hornets shot so many free throws because they were beating their men. You don't want the Hornets to shoot so many free throws, don't give them BS technical shots, don't pull Chandler down when he's going for a lob, don't turn the ball over so much that Horry has to foul Chris Paul on a fast break, don't PURPOSELY foul Ely and Tyson in order to put them at the line(which even though they do this, the Spurs still have in general shot more foul shots), don't let Chris Paul get into the lane whenever he wants, and try to at least slow down David West.

I love how people use a stat sheet when they have no examples. The Hornets outplayed the Spurs. They beat them all around the court, and that caused the Spurs to foul them. The Spurs didn't deserve the shots they got. Ask Manu and Tony.

Good job, master of the obvious. Most people are in agreement about the bolded statement. The problem seems to be that some people are so desperate to appear as "good sportsmen" that they refuse to acknowledge what is in front of them. Officiating does not determine the outcome, but it does have a pretty damn big impact.

[Jon1798]

Good job, master of the obvious. Most people are in agreement about the bolded statement. The problem seems to be that some people are so desperate to appear as "good sportsmen" that they refuse to acknowledge what is in front of them. Officiating does not determine the outcome, but it does have a pretty damn big impact.

That's what is so funny. Ya'll agree that the Hornets outplayed the Spurs, yet don't understand why they shot more free throws because of it.

[LakerLanny]

I'm just going to ask you to tone it down a little bit or you may find yourself banned tonight. The hornets won but it wasn't pretty, it wasn't dominant despite the score.

I would use caution if I was you.

Pretty weak to ban a guy for that post.

But I wouldn't put it past an overly touchy fan base.

Bottom line is no team in NBA history benefits from the whistle more than SA and deep down you know it.

Sack up already, you are sounding like JazzFan (who would already be on summer vacation if the refs call the obvious five step travel on Deron Williams at the end of regulation in Game 4)

[Jon1798]

Can anyone explain why the cheating refs gave the Spurs so many calls in game 5? I brought up many of them, does anyone want to take a shot at those?

[LakerLanny]

The second half of game 5 between the lakers and jazz was a complete joke! The reffing would not allow the jazz to take the lead or get anything going. Cheap touch fouls called on the jazz and non calls on the lakers in the second half. It happened way to often to go unnoticed. One play in particular when i think it was odom dunked the ball and got the +1 in the forth quarter, He wasn't even touched and the whistles are going off! I have a hard time watching games and not just laughing cause it's obvious how bad the ref's have been! Even if the spurs or jazz can force game 7's I don't think there's much chance that you'll see either team advance for the simple fact that the road team's can't play physical. The only chance spurs or jazz have if they force game 7's is if they happen to shoot 50% from the floor and rebound well because they aren't gonna be shooting to many free throws!

I hope i'm wrong though!

Give me a break.

Gasol was being fouled two and three times EVERY time he posted, the refs simply refused to whistle it. Meanwhile, they are letting Deron Williams just launch himself into guys for a whistle every time.

How about the ridiculous technical foul Bob Delaney calls on The Machine IN THE LAST TWO MINUTES OF A TIGHT PLAYOFF GAME! Are you fucking kidding me? If you are going to call that a technical on The Machine, how in the world is Kevin Garnett not T'd up twice in the first quarter of every game, he is running his mouth the entire game.

NBA officiating isn't just bad, it is clearly biased and every fan base in every city thinks so. I say fire them all and start over with the international/college refs (although Timmy might not like that judging by the last Olympics)

[poo-doe wayne-o]

The Joey Crawford Effect


SPURS FT ATTEMPTS

SAN ANTONIO
GAME 1 - 21
GAME 2 - 19
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 20
GAME 5 - 18

Pretty Consistent Huh,?

Then New Orleans
GAME 1 - 15
GAME 2 - 24
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 12
GAME 5 - 33

lol



holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 your right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in game 1 the spurs had 6 too many

then in game 2 the hornets had 5 too many

game three was the only game that the refs got right

in game 4 the spurs got 8 too many

and in game 5 the hornet got 15 too many.

total for the series:

spurs got 99 so far.
hornets got 105 so far.

you guys are right, its a league agenda.

[spurscenter]

holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 your right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in game 1 the spurs had 6 too many

then in game 2 the hornets had 5 too many

game three was the only game that the refs got right

in game 4 the spurs got 8 too many

and in game 5 the hornet got 15 too many.

total for the series:

spurs got 99 so far.
hornets got 105 so far.

you guys are right, its a league agenda.

there are many ways the refs dictate the game that does not show up on stat sheet at all.

out of bounds, at what time those calls are made in the game, to make them come back from a 6-8 point lead, or to extend a 2 pt lead.

they show up when they have to. Double Techs, delay on spurs bench, touch fouls suddendly called, etc.

they do a great job to keep the PF equal in every game to cover themselves but if you dont think they dont dictate a pace or a winner if they want to, you are not understanding the history of this league refs. it happens

[Jon1798]

there are many ways the refs dictate the game that does not show up on stat sheet at all.

out of bounds, at what time those calls are made in the game, to make them come back from a 6-8 point lead, or to extend a 2 pt lead.

they show up when they have to. Double Techs, delay on spurs bench, touch fouls suddendly called, etc.

they do a great job to keep the PF equal in every game to cover themselves but if you dont think they dont dictate a pace or a winner if they want to, you are not understanding the history of this league refs. it happens

Still avoiding answering any real questions huh?

[Cry Havoc]

Still avoiding answering any real questions huh?

20 and 1.

20 and 1. Keep up the sanctimonious bullshit.

The Spurs are likely going to get ALL the calls tonight. And then you're going to be bitching and whining (to yourself) about how it's only biased for the Spurs because they're the champs.

Oh, don't get me wrong, you'll probably post that the Spurs outplayed the Hornets in Game 6. On the surface, you might very well appear to be the cool, reserved, quietly confident Hornets fan.

But deep down, you'll know that short of playing a perfect game, the Spurs were meant to push this to 7. And you'll be okay with it, because Game 7 is in your house, with your HCA in full effect.

And then, if Game 7 goes to the Spurs somehow, you will just lose it. That, or we will never see you again.

I know this because it's happened to (nearly) every team the Spurs have beaten in the playoffs. Newbies show up, talk shit, get beat, and then leave. Or they stay and troll as much as possible.

And if the Hornets win Game 7? Well, I guess we'll just attribute that 26-1 in favor of the Home Team is just proof that HCA matters and the league doesn't care how much money they make off of the most-hyped playoffs in a decade -- they just got really, really lucky.

:toast to you.

[spurscenter]

LAS VEGAS - Retired NBA star Charles Barkley will face criminal charges if he doesn't repay a $400,000 gambling debt to a Las Vegas casino, a prosecutor said Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT

"We're in the process of sending Mr. Barkley notice that we're considering filing a criminal complaint," Clark County District Attorney David Roger said. "He'll have an opportunity like anybody else to make restitution to the hotel."

The posh Wynn Las Vegas casino alleges in a civil complaint filed Wednesday in Nevada state court that Barkley failed to repay four $100,000 casino markers, or loans, he received last Oct. 18 and 19.

"To date, and despite repeated demands, Barkley has refused to repay the $400,000," the complaint said.

Barkley is a basketball analyst for Turner Network Television who has made no secret of his gambling over the years.

His agent in New York did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment, and a TNT spokeswoman in Atlanta declined comment.

Wynn Las Vegas spokeswoman Dorothy Land also declined comment, citing ongoing litigation.

Barkley, 45, played 16 seasons for the Philadelphia 76ers, Phoenix Suns and Houston Rockets. He was named MVP in 1993 and was an 11-time NBA All-Star. Barkley also played on the USA Olympic "Dream Team" in 1992 and 1996.

Barkley estimated during a May 2006 interview with ESPN that he'd gambled away about $10 million over the years.

"Do I have a gambling problem? Yeah, I do have a gambling problem," Barkley said. "But I don't consider it a problem because I can afford to gamble."

He said he never bet on basketball, and only bet in casinos. He called it a bad habit that he intended to continue.

[Nolazach]

I will agree that the refs blow the whistle way too much, but will not gto so far as to say they cost the game.

[spurscenter]

with all the ref threads, we should just pin this and discuss the refs, here.

any series.

Sal was on a mission in the first half , with parker and defensive 3, and shit

but the key was that the spurs were making their shots and did not allow the refs to get in as much .

gotta hit shots to fight the bullshit .

[ecksodia]

I dunno why West was complaining about those calls. That reach in was obvious, and those offensive fouls were legit.. Of course I think Duncan did a little selling, but still, it was clear that his feet was set when he took the contact.

[Obstructed_View]

You can clearly see that West extended his arm. All those calls were pretty easy. I think he was in more pain than he was letting on, and was just frustrated. Horry didn't seem to hit him all that hard. I suppose it's possible that he just stayed down so he didn't have to stay for the rest of the game.

[zepn]

LAS VEGAS - Retired NBA star Charles Barkley will face criminal charges if he doesn't repay a $400,000 gambling debt to a Las Vegas casino, a prosecutor said Thursday.

Interesting. I thought any past-due debt (not owed to the IRS) was a civil matter in the U.S. (?)

[ambchang]

At this point, it would be naive for people to think that the referees did not have any effect on the games, the games had these huge swings between home and road teams is exactly because of the way the games were called.

Paul would not have been called for the charge against Bowen if he was in NO (his fourth), his layup charge would have been an and-1 in NO, Duncan would not have gotten the calls he gotten last night if it was NO, Duncan was still throwing up jumpshots and fadeaways last night, yet he got 8 FTAs vs. 14 shots in Game 5, vs. 1 FTA on 18 shots last night. The whole offense of the Spurs revolves around Duncan, and if he is not allowed to to his job down low, the offense stagnate.

Props to Chris Paul for keeping his composure and continue to play well after those charges, and this is what is needed, but the Spurs were on such a roll by then that there is no stopping them. The same has happened in NO in favour of the Hornets.

The point is, the home team doesn't magically becomes more aggressive, they were allowed to do things that the other teams aren't, and that makes all the difference in the world.

[spurscenter]

Feds: Donaghy bet on about 14 games he worked in 2006-07


NEW YORK (AP)—Former NBA referee Tim Donaghy bet on about 14 games he officiated in the 2006-07 season, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Goldberg said in a letter filed Friday in Brooklyn Federal Court.

“In the Spring of 2003, Donaghy provided picks for games he refereed on only 2-3 occasions,” Goldberg wrote. “Over the next three full seasons (2003-2004, 2004-2005, and 2005-2006), however, Donaghy bet on numerous games that he worked.

“The government’s investigation revealed that Donaghy provided picks for anywhere from 30 to 40 such games for each of those three seasons. During the 2006-2007 season (the time period charged in the information), Donaghy bet on approximately 30 games, including about 14 games that he refereed.”

Donaghy pleaded guilty last year to charges he conspired to engage in wire fraud and transmitted betting information through interstate commerce. The referee said he made NBA bets for four years, even wagering on games he worked. He also admitted recommending bets to high-stakes gamblers and collecting $5,000 if his picks hit.




NEW YORK (TICKER) —Federal prosecutors claim former NBA referee Tim Donaghy bet on more than 100 games that he worked, the New York Daily News reported Saturday.

Donaghy, 41, was fired by the NBA after pleading guilty last year to charges of wire fraud and transmitting betting information across state lines, a violation of federal law.

In a court filing, prosecutors detailed Donaghy’s betting activity that began in 2003 and continued for three seasons.

“The government’s investigation revealed that Donaghy provided picks for anywhere from 30 to 40 games for each of those three seasons,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Goldberg said in a letter filed Friday in Brooklyn Federal Court.

Donaghy is not accused of fixing games, but he is charged with passing along inside information to two gamblers. The information allegedly includes tips on which officiating crews worked particular games and how they interacted with players.

Thomas Martino, one of Donaghy’s gambling partners who pleaded guilty last month to participating in the scheme, said Donaghy received $5,000 for each correct pick.

Donaghy will be sentenced July 14 by Brooklyn Federal Judge Carol Amon and is facing a maximum of 20 years in prison.

According to the Daily News, however, he likely will receive a far more lenient sentence for cooperating with the government during its investigation.

Donaghy is scheduled to be sentenced May 22. By law, he faces up to 25 years in prison, though the term could be much lower under sentencing guidelines.

[spurscenter]

just to throw the history of the refs in the spurs run for the ring

[Allanon]

Suns thread.

[spurscenter]

yea, it was meant for a thread on the refs for the entire playoffs but never got stick to the front page.

now there are bunch of threads on refs after every loss. lol

[spurscenter]

BOSTON gets 49 FT vs DET to keep them close

then this crap from Joey Crawford


The fix has been on since attendence is down, ratings and the ref scandal.

big markets, big $, refs $100,000 year

[spurscenter]

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