View Full Version : Question to Spurs fans on Timmy?
fightingtiger2335
05-10-2008, 05:33 PM
How many of you think with out a doubt Timmy is the best PF ever to play? If you think someone is better or could also hold the title of best PF who is it? I know people knock Chuck Barkley and Malone...but they were just victims of the Jordan Era.
ClingingMars
05-10-2008, 05:50 PM
Duncan owns them all. No question.
- Mars
rasho8
05-10-2008, 05:51 PM
Not even really a question, even Barkley rates him as the best PF of all time.
fightingtiger2335
05-10-2008, 05:53 PM
Duncan owns them all. No question.
- Mars
So if Barkley was a Spur and Duncan wasn't at any point in his career you still feel that way? I like Timmy....he's no doubt top 3...just not sold on #1. I like to hear other peoples opinion.
After Malone and Barkley there is kind of a drop off. I'd have to say there's really no competition considering neither has a single ring. As far as pure talent i'd say Garnett and Nowitzki, but again...neither has a ring.
They built a franchise around Duncan and he's been able to win even after changing the supporting cast numerous times. He also does it on both ends of the floor much better than Barkley or Malone.
check this out
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360
..and that was in '05 (before he got #4)
Avitus1
05-10-2008, 05:56 PM
Tiiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyy
SouthTexasRancher
05-10-2008, 06:04 PM
How many of you think with out a doubt Timmy is the best PF ever to play? If you think someone is better or could also hold the title of best PF who is it? I know people knock Chuck Barkley and Malone...but they were just victims of the Jordan Era.
Timmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyy...!!!
Ain't even near being close! Need we say more!
:flag::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::flag::lobt:
balli
05-10-2008, 07:07 PM
Tim Duncan is the best center in the NBA right now. Of course, he's listed as a forward, but in all truth, Duncan is a center. At 7-0 260lbs, everything about Duncan screams center except for what's listed by his name on roster sheets. His two-plus blocks per game anchors the Spurs' defense in the middle, and he plays in the low post to anchor the Spurs' offense. San Antonio strategically pairs him with other 7-footers to take pressure off the star at the defensive end. Former Houston Rockets' star Hakeem Olajuwon played alongside 7-4 Ralph Sampson in his earlier years, coining the term "twin towers," yet no one considers Hakeem Olajuwon a power forward for his career. Duncan is a center and is the league's best center at that. His offensive efficiency and defensive prowess make him a difficult foe for any team, and his numerous rings evidence his greatness.
PlayoffEx-static
05-10-2008, 07:12 PM
Tim's not 7'0". He's probably a legit 6'10". If people don't go around randomly re-classifying 7'1" Kevin Garnett as a C, I don't see why they do it to Duncan. Charles Barkley had a monster post game, too. Was he a center?
Tim Duncan is the best center in the NBA right now. Of course, he's listed as a forward, but in all truth, Duncan is a center. At 7-0 260lbs, everything about Duncan screams center except for what's listed by his name on roster sheets. His two-plus blocks per game anchors the Spurs' defense in the middle, and he plays in the low post to anchor the Spurs' offense. San Antonio strategically pairs him with other 7-footers to take pressure off the star at the defensive end. Former Houston Rockets' star Hakeem Olajuwon played alongside 7-4 Ralph Sampson in his earlier years, coining the term "twin towers," yet no one considers Hakeem Olajuwon a power forward for his career. Duncan is a center and is the league's best center at that. His offensive efficiency and defensive prowess make him a difficult foe for any team, and his numerous rings evidence his greatness.
If Tim Duncan is a center, Bill Laimbeer was a guard. After all, Laimbeer shot a lot of jump shots.
I don't care for that sort of analysis. It assumes that positions must be played one and only one way, which is not at all true. If Duncan was a center, he sure does handle the ball, pass the ball, and shoot jumpers a hell of a lot better than just about every other center.
Oscar Robertson must have been a center; he posted up a lot and grabbed a lot of rebounds.
Magic Johnson couldn't be a point guard - he's 6'9".
Lafayette Lever must have been a power forward - look at his rebounds.
Brad Daugherty couldn't have been a center - look at his blocks totals.
On and on and on goes that faulty line of analysis.
Strike
05-10-2008, 07:41 PM
How many of you think with out a doubt Timmy is the best PF ever to play? If you think someone is better or could also hold the title of best PF who is it? I know people knock Chuck Barkley and Malone...but they were just victims of the Jordan Era.
Actually, I'd like your reasons why he's not the best PF of all time.
By the way, "victims of the Jordan era" is a complete and total copout. :nope Babe Ruth is considered one of the greatest ballplayers of all time but he and his teams were beaten in the World Series more than once. If Barkley and the Suns or Malone and the Jazz really had the goods, either one could have beaten the Bulls in the 90's.
I hate these people that give players a pass just because the were "victims of the Jordan era". Knock that shit off, please.:bang
:lmao @ ballijuana trying to reclassify Duncan as a center.
Strike
05-10-2008, 07:44 PM
:lmao @ ballijuana trying to reclassify Duncan as a center.
It's been tried many times, and every time is an epic fail.
fightingtiger2335
05-10-2008, 07:45 PM
By the way, "victims of the Jordan era" is a complete and total copout. :nope Babe Ruth is considered one of the greatest ballplayers of all time but he and his teams were beaten in the World Series more than once. If Barkley and the Suns or Malone and the Jazz really had the goods, either one could have beaten the Bulls in the 90's.
Baseball and basketball are totally different animals. 1 player can take over a basketball game. 6 titles in 8 years seems to be alot of victims of awesome team. I'm not trying to flame or anything but I don't think the Spurs are winning titles in that Era.
duncan228
05-10-2008, 07:50 PM
It's been tried many times, and every time is an epic fail.
And it usually takes many days and many pages per thread...
So if Barkley was a Spur and Duncan wasn't at any point in his career you still feel that way? I like Timmy....he's no doubt top 3...just not sold on #1. I like to hear other peoples opinion.
Then go post your question on another board:flag:
fightingtiger2335
05-10-2008, 07:58 PM
Then go post your question on another board:flag:
You are other people..........I know it's a tough concept to grasp...but I BEElieve in you.
duncan228
05-10-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm biased, but for me Duncan is by far the best PF to ever play. His core game is simply stronger than any of the others in the conversation. The pure fundamentals are prettier to me than any of the power moves or flash. His basketball IQ is off the charts, he makes everyone around him better. He's selfless, he's only about the team and the win. And his footwork is a thing of beauty. So is his court vision and his passing.
Take away position and I'd put him top 15 of all time period. His legacy is set now, anything he adds from here on will only move him up.
But, like I said, I'm biased. :)
You are other people..........I know it's a tough concept to grasp...but I BEElieve in you.
Why are you not "sold" on him being #1??
Let's pretend that you are "other people"...what's your opinion?
samikeyp
05-10-2008, 08:23 PM
In the last 25 years, the PF position has been redefined three times, McHale did it, then Malone, then Duncan. Duncan has set the bar higher than anyone, when he retires, he will be in the conversation of Top 10 all-time of all NBA players.
fightingtiger2335
05-10-2008, 08:26 PM
Just me.....But I think a Karl Malone in his prime > over Duncan. Now i'm biased because growing up the Jazz were my fav. team ever because of Stockton, Malone, Hornacek, and Sloan coaching..I loved the way they played. I think if Jordan isn't around Malone has two titles.(Kinda of like Hakeem getting his the two years Jordan was out of league.) Malone was just a beast though. If he wanted to score he was going to score. Even though they did play each other it def. wasn't Malone at his top anymore...but he was still effective. I prob. have Timmy at #2. Malones biggest knock was he didn't demand the ball at the end....because Stockton was the clutch shooter on that team. Malone made his fair share of big shots though.
But that's just my opinion.
samikeyp
05-10-2008, 08:32 PM
Just me.....But I think a Karl Malone in his prime > over Duncan. Now i'm biased because growing up the Jazz were my fav. team ever because of Stockton, Malone, Hornacek, and Sloan coaching..I loved the way they played. I think if Jordan isn't around Malone has two titles.(Kinda of like Hakeem getting his the two years Jordan was out of league.) Malone was just a beast though. If he wanted to score he was going to score. Even though they did play each other it def. wasn't Malone at his top anymore...but he was still effective. I prob. have Timmy at #2. Malones biggest knock was he didn't demand the ball at the end....because Stockton was the clutch shooter on that team. Malone made his fair share of big shots though.
But that's just my opinion.
I would disagree. As someone who has watched both of them throughout their entire careers, especially with the Jazz being in the Spurs division just about the entire time, I would give the edge to Duncan. Slightly but still. Malone was a better scorer, Duncan a better defender, both outstanding rebounders. Even though Malone was an asshole as a person, he was extremely talented and one of the best ever, I just put Duncan slightly ahead.
But that's just my opinion. :)
You are other people..........I know it's a tough concept to grasp...but I BEElieve in you.
Didn't say we are "other people" just said this is a SPURS fans boards and got back to your damn Hornets board if you want to debate the subject:flag:
Take away position and I'd put him top 15 of all time period. His legacy is set now, anything he adds from here on will only move him up.
But, like I said, I'm biased.
I think you're showing a lack of bias by putting Duncan in "only" top 15. I would have guessed you had him top 5-7.
Duncan's in my top 5.
fightingtiger2335
05-10-2008, 08:44 PM
Didn't say we are "other people" just said this is a SPURS fans boards and got back to your damn Hornets board if you want to debate the subject:flag:
:sleep
duncan228
05-10-2008, 08:45 PM
I think you're showing a lack of bias by putting Duncan in "only" top 15. I would have guessed you had him top 5-7.
Duncan's in my top 5.
I was trying to step out of a Duncan fan spot and think more objectively. I started listing names in my head, there are a lot of all-time greats out there. I'd say the argument can be made to put him top 10/15 by any basketball fan.
I prefer Duncan's game over any of them, there's no one I'd rather watch, past or present. So yeah, you got me. He'd fall somewhere in my top 5. Let's say somewhere around 1. :)
Que Gee
05-10-2008, 08:49 PM
He's a fucking center people. Be done with it.
He's a fucking center people. Be done with it.
So was Oscar Robertson. Alvan Adams was a shooting guard.
DarrinS
05-10-2008, 09:22 PM
How many of you think with out a doubt Timmy is the best PF ever to play? If you think someone is better or could also hold the title of best PF who is it? I know people knock Chuck Barkley and Malone...but they were just victims of the Jordan Era.
This is not a real question anymore. TD is the best PF who has ever played the game.
Queue the people who say he's really a center.
mystargtr34
05-10-2008, 09:22 PM
Just me.....But I think a Karl Malone in his prime > over Duncan. Now i'm biased because growing up the Jazz were my fav. team ever because of Stockton, Malone, Hornacek, and Sloan coaching..I loved the way they played. I think if Jordan isn't around Malone has two titles.(Kinda of like Hakeem getting his the two years Jordan was out of league.) Malone was just a beast though. If he wanted to score he was going to score. Even though they did play each other it def. wasn't Malone at his top anymore...but he was still effective. I prob. have Timmy at #2. Malones biggest knock was he didn't demand the ball at the end....because Stockton was the clutch shooter on that team. Malone made his fair share of big shots though.
But that's just my opinion.
Those New York/Pacer teams the Bulls beat in the East playoffs could have given the Jazz a run for their money...
And for all the talk about Malone not winning titles because of Jordan.... Malone only got the Jazz to the Finals twice in 20 years with a Hall of Fame Point Guard and solid role players.
Prime Malone was a higher volume scorer than Duncan... but Duncan pretty much has him covered in every other are of the game... and defense isnt even close.
I think Barkley is closer to Malone than Malone is to Duncan
Bob Lanier
05-10-2008, 09:26 PM
He's a forward. The term "power forward" isn't listed on the stat sheets, which is where Duncan is considered a forward rather than a center.
So he's the second-best forward of all time, behind Bird.
dbreiden83080
05-10-2008, 09:28 PM
Tim's not 7'0". He's probably a legit 6'10". If people don't go around randomly re-classifying 7'1" Kevin Garnett as a C, I don't see why they do it to Duncan. Charles Barkley had a monster post game, too. Was he a center?
If Duncan is 6'10 than Horry is about 6'8 and Lebron is about 6'6 instead of 6'9 as he is considerably taller than both of them. Fab is listed at 6'10 and Duncan is a lot taller than him also.
mystargtr34
05-10-2008, 09:44 PM
If Duncan is 6'10 than Horry is about 6'8 and Lebron is about 6'6 instead of 6'9 as he is considerably taller than both of them. Fab is listed at 6'10 and Duncan is a lot taller than him also.
Fab is listed generously at 6'10"...
And Horry was actually listed at 6'8.5" without shoes back in his pre draft.
Theres good links to this sorts of stuff... on insidehoops.com forums.
Tim is 6'10 without shoes so i dont think that qualifies him as a 7 footer...there are maybe only 10 guys in the league who are actually 7'0" without shoes.
duncan228
05-10-2008, 09:44 PM
Duncan's height has been questioned in the past.
The story goes that he was billed as 7' when he was drafted so the Spurs could play up the "twin towers" angle. After Robinson retired Duncan asked the Spurs to list him at his true height, that became 6'11". I've read that he's actually just under that.
Somewhere I have all the articles that tell the story...
ChumpDumper
05-10-2008, 09:45 PM
Tim Duncan is a very good basketball player.
Mr.Bottomtooth
05-10-2008, 09:46 PM
Tim Duncan is a very good basketball player.
Gotta go with Chump on this one.
Trainwreck2100
05-10-2008, 09:50 PM
Tim Duncan is a very good basketball player.
He's better than me, and that's saying something
dbreiden83080
05-10-2008, 09:58 PM
Duncan's height has been questioned in the past.
The story goes that he was billed as 7' when he was drafted so the Spurs could play up the "twin towers" angle. After Robinson retired Duncan asked the Spurs to list him at his true height, that became 6'11". I've read that he's actually just under that.
Somewhere I have all the articles that tell the story...
It is hard to know how tall anyone is in the NBA they lie so much about it. They say that Lebron is now 6'9 up from 6'8 a year ago. When he and Duncan hugged and Duncan gave him a few kind words after the finals, Tim was way taller than Lebron. More than 2 inches for sure. So i guess Lebron is only like 6'6 then, who knows??? :huh
If Chris Paul is 6'0", I'm a LEGO block.
GinobiliLooms
05-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Tim Duncan has a degree in psychology, is a 4 time NBA Champion First Ballot Hall of Famer who married his colllege sweetheart, is completely fearless in a leadership role and in the clutch, and basically moves mountains with his mind.
He's the best ever.
spurster
05-10-2008, 10:06 PM
Perhaps one reason why TD is so good is because he blends both the traditional PF and C positions, though nowadays, there isn't much difference position-wise between whatever two bigmen are on the floor for a team.
spursfan09
05-10-2008, 10:07 PM
:lol ofcourse we think he is. He is a Spur and brought 4 championships so far. His teams are always in contention. He's played against some of the greatest-Shaq and Kobe for example, and won.
dbreiden83080
05-10-2008, 10:18 PM
If Chris Paul is 6'0", I'm a LEGO block.
He is 5'10 on a tall day.
baseline bum
05-10-2008, 10:20 PM
Actually, I'd like your reasons why he's not the best PF of all time.
By the way, "victims of the Jordan era" is a complete and total copout. :nope Babe Ruth is considered one of the greatest ballplayers of all time but he and his teams were beaten in the World Series more than once. If Barkley and the Suns or Malone and the Jazz really had the goods, either one could have beaten the Bulls in the 90's.
I hate these people that give players a pass just because the were "victims of the Jordan era". Knock that shit off, please.:bang
'Eh, in 10 years people are going to talk about Nash, Garnett, and Nowitzki being victims of the Duncan era.
it's not a question anymore since last year.
admiralfats
05-10-2008, 11:15 PM
Just me.....But I think a Karl Malone in his prime > over Duncan. Now i'm biased because growing up the Jazz were my fav. team ever because of Stockton, Malone, Hornacek, and Sloan coaching..I loved the way they played. I think if Jordan isn't around Malone has two titles.(Kinda of like Hakeem getting his the two years Jordan was out of league.) Malone was just a beast though. If he wanted to score he was going to score. Even though they did play each other it def. wasn't Malone at his top anymore...but he was still effective. I prob. have Timmy at #2. Malones biggest knock was he didn't demand the ball at the end....because Stockton was the clutch shooter on that team. Malone made his fair share of big shots though.
But that's just my opinion.
I think there are a couple of things that mark Duncan out from Malone here. When you think of Malone, you think of Stockton. You think of that pick and roll. I think Stockton got Malone a lot of open shots, which Malone was very proficient at knocking down. He was a great player. Meanwhile, Duncan is termed the "quarterback" of the team by Pop, which I always take to mean that he gets the open shots for guys, and guides the ball around. No doubt Parker is getting better, but he's not the dish guy that Stockton was, and I don't think Duncan gets as many pick and roll points as Malone did. No doubt he could, but that's not the system. Utah Jazz were all about Stockton and Malone, the San Antonio Spurs are all about Tim Duncan opening up Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. They're great players too, but Tim anchors that. Also, don't you think it's a little silly to say that Malone would've gotten 2 titles without Jordan in the league, like Hakeem did, when he played against those Hakeem teams that won two. If you don't win the two years that were open, sorry, I'm not giving you any other years where Jordan hypothetically wasn't there, as unfair as that may be.
ChumpDumper
05-10-2008, 11:20 PM
If Chris Paul is 6'0", I'm a LEGO block.True. He measured 6'1" in shoes in 2005. 5'11.75" without.
True. He measured 6'1" in shoes in 2005. 5'11.75" without.
Seriously?? He looks shorter than that. I wouldn't have been surprised by 5'10" in bare feet.
oboymeetsogirl
05-10-2008, 11:40 PM
I was a huge Malone/Stockton fan in their heyday; always rooting for them over the Bulls, Suns, etc. But really, there's no comparison between Malone and Duncan. Duncan does more things, more consistently than Malone ever did. In the tough games, Duncan does what has to be done, whereas Malone would often disappear or be taken out of his game (which relied too much on 17 foot jumpers, in my opinion) when the going got tough.
Why are we even arguing this: Timmy has four rings, and Malone ended with none. Sure, you could argue that they were up against the Bulls, but the Bulls were very beatable in those years. Although I also think that today's Spurs are more complete teams than the Bulls were, this is just speculation. Like comparing the Bulls to the Showtime Lakers, and the Showtime Lakers with the classic Russell/Cousy Celtics. You simply can't, so it's a moot point.
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