KG, the role player?

[ElNono]

I was listening to Kenny 'The JET' Smith the other day, and he brought up an interesting point: Garnett must be the only superstar out there that can't put a 40+ point game. He's a guy that just can't take over and dominate.
I think it's a valid point. So what do y'all think? KG, Superstar or very talented role player?

[spurms]

I was listening to Kenny 'The JET' Smith the other day, and he brought up an interesting point: Garnett must be the only superstar out there that can't put a 40+ point game. He's a guy that just can't take over and dominate.
I think it's a valid point. So what do y'all think? KG, Superstar or very talented role player?

A superstar, i don't get all the spurs hate kg is getting, he's willing to slip back in a role on a team with 3 star players, there's no gurantee that celtics will make it to the finals, neither are the spurs, little bit premature for trash talking and fear of the supposedly stern pet team.

[SRJ]

So what do y'all think? KG, Superstar or very talented role player?

KG is a superstar whose forte is not scoring, though he can score effectively for the most part. He is also a flaming sack of ass lips.

[JoeTait75]

Here's a question: would KG have taken any of those T'Wolves teams to the Finals had they been in the East? If the answer is yes, than he's a superstar. If no, he's not.

[ElNono]

A superstar, i don't get all the spurs hate kg is getting, he's willing to slip back in a role on a team with 3 star players, there's no gurantee that celtics will make it to the finals, neither are the spurs, little bit premature for trash talking and fear of the supposedly stern pet team.

Who's trash talking? Kenny Smith? I thought he raised a valid point, and wanted to know other people's opnion.
I personally don't like the Celts much, but it's mostly because all the attention they've been gettng throughout the season.

[ludda]

Im sure KG is a great guy off the court blah blah, that doesn't mean that his chest-beating and cursing on the court while playing like a scared bitch during crunchtime doesn't get on people's nerves.

That said, I'd say he is a superstar, whatever that means.

[JoeTait75]

32 points, 21 boards, 5 blocks against the Kings in Game 7 of the '04 WCSF. I'm not KG's biggest fan, but that's a superstar's line in a close-out game.

[TDMVPDPOY]

32 points, 21 boards, 5 blocks against the Kings in Game 7 of the '04 WCSF. I'm not KG's biggest fan, but that's a superstar's line in a close-out game.

this is the only stat record KGFANs love to bring up in arguments...give us something new

[TDfan2007]

32 points, 21 boards, 5 blocks against the Kings in Game 7 of the '04 WCSF. I'm not KG's biggest fan, but that's a superstar's line in a close-out game.

He's super-talented. The most talented big man to ever play the game outside of either Hakeem or DRob IMO. Problem is he has the basketball IQ of a third grader, and in the 4th quarter that terrible IQ drops to even lower levels. When he's aggressive and uses his speed/athleticism, he's a very tough guy to gaurd unless you have a Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace on him. However, when he simply relies on his inconsistent outside shot then you see what happened in game 4 tonight and what has happened throughout most 4th quarters.

With that said, he's a superstar, but not as great a scorer like Dirk or Tim. Those guys have multiple moves that they can pull out and are very tough to read. KG has basically one move, a turnaround fadeaway after a shoulder fake.

[JoeTait75]

what has he done in the past 4 years?

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I'll play it from the other side: KG never got the T'Wolves past a physically superior team in the playoffs. The mark of a superstar is to get your team to overachieve and he never did that.

[Dim Tuncan]

Well it's not like the NBA's ever rolled out the red carpet and waived the rules for KG like the have for LeBitch.

[peskypesky]

He's super-talented. The most talented big man to ever play the game outside of either Hakeem or DRob IMO.
:rollin

[JamStone]

KG is a better fit to be a second fiddle or even the third option on offense and just getting rebounds and playing great defense. For all of his intensity, he doesn't have the make-up of a franchise go-to player. He's a great complimentary player. He could be the ultimate role player. And, I'm sure KG would be fine with that if it meant a championship.

Bill Russell was a role player.

[mystargtr34]

Tim Duncan is more talented than Garnett.. Garnett has two post move..

Turn around jumper into the lane and a baseline turnaround jumper..

One of Tim Duncan's spin moves oozes more talent than Garnett has in his entire body.

[Bob Lanier]

I'd rather have Udonis Haslem on my team than Garnett.

[Capt Bringdown]

KG's offensive game is quite limited when compared to Hakeem and/or Duncan. He's got no go to, signature shot.

But either did the Admiral for that matter.

But please, comparisons to Hakeem? Laughable. Hakeem could show more moves in one offensive possession than KG can demonstrate in his entire career.

KG's a nice stat player. A good complementary player perhaps, if he were to play on a team with a real leader. The bad news for Celtics fans is that the best leader they've got on that team is the 97 year old Sam Cassell.

[endrity]

Tim Duncan is more talented than Garnett.. Garnett has two post move..

Turn around jumper into the lane and a baseline turnaround jumper..

One of Tim Duncan's spin moves oozes more talent than Garnett has in his entire body.


Yes!!!!

When will people realize that beyond him being tagged as one of the most "versatile" big men in the game KG is very limited offensively. And in this game a superstar has got to be able to take over a game offensively. He has no strength at all to dominate in the post, and his jumper is not that great to be a good outside shooter like Dirk, or like West is slowly developing. His range also is very limited as well.

It's not an IQ issue, it's not a heart issue, it's the simple fact that in the 4th quarter when team will play their best defense on you, his flaws get heavily exposed.

Beside that Game 7 against the Kings, he has nothing else to show for. And let's be realistic, it was a game 7 in the second round, against a team that was collapsing from within since Webber came back from surgery. And he was being defended by Brad Miller, and the knee-less Webber. Not exactly the greatest of achievements.

But he is the golden boy to the media, because he screams and yells and 'shows passion'. BS!!!! Give me a hard worker any day, who will actually work on his game rather than talk about it.

[naico]

KG has skills and heart. But he can't stop acting like a bitch on court. In order to win games u gotta play ur heart out but also keep ur composure. U saw him trying to shove LB when he got dunked on? The guy could ve broken his back if it wasnt for his force..

[endrity]

KG has skills and heart. But he can't stop acting like a bitch on court. In order to win games u gotta play ur heart out but also keep ur composure. U saw him trying to shove LB when he got dunked on? The guy could ve broken his back if it wasnt for his force..

I doubt he has superstar skills.

I too wondered how no foul was called on that play. It was pretty obvious. Golden boy??

[m33p0]

KG has skills and heart. But he can't stop acting like a bitch on court. In order to win games u gotta play ur heart out but also keep ur composure. U saw him trying to shove LB when he got dunked on? The guy could ve broken his back if it wasnt for his force..
athleticism, yes. but not skills that would qualify as "superstar" skills. but he is a superstar. overrated but still a superstar.

[Supergirl]

KG has long been criticized for being too unselfish, and I think that's where it comes from - he is constantly trying to get his teammates involved so he is often reticent to take the big shot. He'll always look for the open man first. Unfortunately, sometimes his teams need him to take the big shot.

Part of it also comes from being a jump shooter as much as a post player, so he doesn't instinctively think to drive in and force a layup or get a foul. Sometimes he does, but TD ALWAYS does, because he's less of a jump shooter. In that way TD is more of a C/PF than a PF/SF, whereas KG is closer to the kind of PF Dirk plays.

They had that interview with the Celtics' big 3 a couple months ago, and they asked all 3 of them who they wanted to take the big shot at the end of a game. KG and PP both said Ray Allen, and Ray Allen said "whoever's open." I thought that was very telling.

If we asked the same question of our big 3, I wonder who they would say? I suspect they might say Manu, but they might say Tim.

[naico]

Where did i ever write something about superstar skills?? He's a good player and a good defender, but i too think he's overrated.

[m33p0]

KG has long been criticized for being too unselfish, and I think that's where it comes from - he is constantly trying to get his teammates involved so he is often reticent to take the big shot. He'll always look for the open man first. Unfortunately, sometimes his teams need him to take the big shot.

Part of it also comes from being a jump shooter as much as a post player, so he doesn't instinctively think to drive in and force a layup or get a foul. Sometimes he does, but TD ALWAYS does, because he's less of a jump shooter. In that way TD is more of a C/PF than a PF/SF, whereas KG is closer to the kind of PF Dirk plays.

They had that interview with the Celtics' big 3 a couple months ago, and they asked all 3 of them who they wanted to take the big shot at the end of a game. KG and PP both said Ray Allen, and Ray Allen said "whoever's open." I thought that was very telling.

If we asked the same question of our big 3, I wonder who they would say? I suspect they might say Manu, but they might say Tim.
but Dirk isn't afraid to take the big shot. KG has been known to pass on them.

also....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2427063932_9c9174f390_o.jpg
manu clearly trusts tim to take the big shot (and horry too for that matter).

[greensborohill]

KG took two shots in the 4th last night and didn't score a single point.


For as much shit as Dirk has taken for actually TAKING and missing big shots in the fourth. . . . I'd take him any day over KG.

Why?

Because knowing that you might fail and still accepting the challenge is the first step towards succeeding. After his 12 years in the NBA, it seems like KG has yet to even take that step.

[stretch]

I was listening to Kenny 'The JET' Smith the other day, and he brought up an interesting point: Garnett must be the only superstar out there that can't put a 40+ point game. He's a guy that just can't take over and dominate.
I think it's a valid point. So what do y'all think? KG, Superstar or very talented role player?

Talented role player, as I have been saying for a while now. The dude is no superstar. He cannot take over games. He is the perfect "garbage" player, possibly the best ever at playing that type of role. But he is not on the level of the most elite PF's like Duncan and Dirk. IMO, there is those two, then everyone else. No one is on their level though.

[ElNono]

Talented role player, as I have been saying for a while now. The dude is no superstar. He cannot take over games. He is the perfect "garbage" player, possibly the best ever at playing that type of role. But he is not on the level of the most elite PF's like Duncan and Dirk. IMO, there is those two, then everyone else. No one is on their level though.

I think that when he really wants to, Rasheed is up there with those two you mentioned. Especially defensively.

[stretch]

He's super-talented. The most talented big man to ever play the game outside of either Hakeem or DRob IMO.

Are you serious?

First off... what talents does he have? His offense is almost completely reliant on put-backs. The ONLY offensive move he has is a 15 foot turnaround. He cannot post people up hardly any better than Dirk can. He relies completely on his jumpshot to create offense, but he's not NEAR as good of a shooter as Dirk. He doesn't have NEAR the post game or defensive prowess that Duncan has. He is a garbage player, and a damn good one at that, but you cannot rely on him to carry a team. He is not skilled enough. And I strongly feel that Garnett's defense is massively overrated because all he does is a bunch of weakside shotblocking and fouling, but consistently gets his ass handed to him with EASE by Dirk, Duncan, Amare, Rasheed, etc... and the "unstoppable" bullshit doesnt work, because ive seen far lesser players have much more effect defensively on these guys than KG ever has. He is a solid team defender, but one-on-one, he is nothing special whatsoever.

Second, the fact that you put him as more talented than big men such as Duncan, Dirk, or Rasheed is bizzare enough... but have you forgotten about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? You must be joking...

[stretch]

I think that when he really wants to, Rasheed is up there with those two you mentioned. Especially defensively.

I absolutely agree with that. But on a consistent basis, Duncan and Dirk are the class of the league. But I have always felt that Rasheed is the most talented PF, and possibly big man period, that the league has ever seen. He basically has a mixture of the post-up and defensive abilities/IQ of Duncan, and Dirk's offensive creativity/shooting. He just didn't have the will to be the number 1 guy ever. If he had a will like Jordan, I feel he could very possibly have finished his career as being one of the greatest ever, up there with Jordan, Bird, and Magic.

[TDfan2007]

Are you serious?

First off... what talents does he have? His offense is almost completely reliant on put-backs. The ONLY offensive move he has is a 15 foot turnaround. He cannot post people up hardly any better than Dirk can. He relies completely on his jumpshot to create offense, but he's not NEAR as good of a shooter as Dirk. He doesn't have NEAR the post game or defensive prowess that Duncan has. He is a garbage player, and a damn good one at that, but you cannot rely on him to carry a team. He is not skilled enough. And I strongly feel that Garnett's defense is massively overrated because all he does is a bunch of weakside shotblocking and fouling, but consistently gets his ass handed to him with EASE by Dirk, Duncan, Amare, Rasheed, etc... and the "unstoppable" bullshit doesnt work, because ive seen far lesser players have much more effect defensively on these guys than KG ever has. He is a solid team defender, but one-on-one, he is nothing special whatsoever.

Second, the fact that you put him as more talented than big men such as Duncan, Dirk, or Rasheed is bizzare enough... but have you forgotten about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? You must be joking...

I should have used my words more carefully. I meant talented in terms of gifted athletically. I agree with everything you said though. But if one were to look at KG, with his size, speed, and athleticism, the fact that he doesn't constantly take over games and drop close to 30 on teams is amazing. He's been blessed with more than Kareem, Tim, or other great bigs could even dream of and yet he's basically pissed it away.

Like I said, it has a lot to do with basketball IQ.

[TDfan2007]

I absolutely agree with that. But on a consistent basis, Duncan and Dirk are the class of the league. But I have always felt that Rasheed is the most talented PF, and possibly big man period, that the league has ever seen. He basically has a mixture of the post-up and defensive abilities/IQ of Duncan, and Dirk's offensive creativity/shooting. He just didn't have the will to be the number 1 guy ever. If he had a will like Jordan, I feel he could very possibly have finished his career as being one of the greatest ever, up there with Jordan, Bird, and Magic.

Not really...Rasheed pretty much does what KG does in the post...shoot turnarounds. That's about all I've ever seen him do down there. I will say that he's on par with Tim defensively along with possesing a deceptively effective outside shot. But to say that he'd be an all-time great if he had more will is pretty baseless.

[endrity]

Not really...Rasheed pretty much does what KG does in the post...shoot turnarounds. That's about all I've ever seen him do down there. I will say that he's on par with Tim defensively along with possesing a deceptively effective outside shot. But to say that he'd be an all-time great if he had more will is pretty baseless.

I am with you on this. I think for example Sheed is not very fluid at the hips like Dirk, and not very strong like Duncan. He is also not a great ballhandler, and I think his footwork is not great, which forbids him from being a totally dominant player because he can't be very creative or retain posession for too long.

But Sheed could be more than what he is, and that is why we will always be left thinking what could have been with him.

[stretch]

I should have used my words more carefully. I meant talented in terms of gifted athletically. I agree with everything you said though. But if one were to look at KG, with his size, speed, and athleticism, the fact that he doesn't constantly take over games and drop close to 30 on teams is amazing. He's been blessed with more than Kareem, Tim, or other great bigs could even dream of and yet he's basically pissed it away.

Like I said, it has a lot to do with basketball IQ.

Size, speed, and athleticism?

Not even comparable to Amare and Dwight Howard. And those are just two guys that came off the top of my head. I'm sure I can name plenty more who are more gifted in those areas as well.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but I think people had gotten the wrong idea about KG because of the media's love affair for the guy, and don't really watch closely as to what he is really capable of, which is being an extremely intense garbage player, and nothing more. I'd say he should be the idol of guys like Ryan Bowen and Mark Madsen... people who aren't incredibly talented but find their way into the league by "garbage" play. He is the golden boy for those kinds of players. A star version of Charles Oakley you could almost say.

[stretch]

Not really...Rasheed pretty much does what KG does in the post...shoot turnarounds. That's about all I've ever seen him do down there. I will say that he's on par with Tim defensively along with possesing a deceptively effective outside shot. But to say that he'd be an all-time great if he had more will is pretty baseless.

I never said he was as good as guys like Dirk or Duncan. Just he had the talent to be a great. Unfortunately he didn't have the will or determination to be that great. He would have rather been a role player, which still worked out fine for him, consider he has a ring, and many other great, great players don't. If he worked as hard and cared as much about being great as Duncan and Dirk has through their careers, there isn't a doubt in my mind he would be superior to them.

Either way, that is simply my opinion, so it doesn't need to have a whole lot a base. It's just what I see in the guy.

[greensborohill]

I should have used my words more carefully. I meant talented in terms of gifted athletically. I agree with everything you said though. But if one were to look at KG, with his size, speed, and athleticism, the fact that he doesn't constantly take over games and drop close to 30 on teams is amazing. He's been blessed with more than Kareem, Tim, or other great bigs could even dream of and yet he's basically pissed it away.

Like I said, it has a lot to do with basketball IQ.


That has nothing to do with basketball IQ and everything to do with a lack of desire and heart.

It's one thing to take and miss 4th quarter shots, it's another thing to not take any. He doesn't want it as bad as others. It a shame that he wastes all his physical gifts by coming up so small all the time.

[xtremesteven33]

:lmao:lmaohaha...bill russell said hell share one of his rings with garnett if he doesnt win any...HAHAHA

[greensborohill]

:lmao:lmaohaha...bill russell said hell share one of his rings with garnett if he doesnt win any...HAHAHA


I don't know if it came off this way. . but that's a slap in the face.

[SRJ]

haha...bill russell said hell share one of his rings with garnett if he doesnt win any...HAHAHA

:lol How's that going to work? Is Garnett going to get a 1963 championship ring from the club? When they have a night in the Garden celebrating the Bill Russell dynasty, will Garnett be there among a bunch of guys who are 40 years older than he is? Are they going to Photoshop him into an old team photo?

[jmard5]

overrated.

[nkdlunch]

I wonder at what point will KG pull out his AK47, Uzi and rocketlaunchers speech??

[gmartin02]

He's super-talented. The most talented big man to ever play the game outside of either Hakeem or DRob IMO.
Gimme a break - very talented, yes, but most talented big man other than Hakeem or DRob? No (Actually DRob is not in the top two of talented big men either - how about Kareem, Bill Russell, Moses Malone?)

I guess this brings up the question of what is "talented"?

Definition from Dictionary.com "having talent or special ability; gifted"

I rate KG as kind of "Lamar Odom 2.0"

[SRJ]

how about Kareem, Bill Russell, Moses Malone?

Kareem was slowish without a great jumper. Russell was not a scorer. Moses was not an outstanding defensive player.

When I think of basketball talent, I think of the following aspects of the game:

Inside scoring
Outside scoring
Passing
Rebounding
Man defense
Help defense
Athleticism
Ball handling

In terms of basketball talent, KG rates highly at most of these IMO. So I don't mind people saying he's as gifted as it gets. His inside scoring isn't great, but it's not bad.

[Holmes_Fans]

He's super-talented. The most talented big man to ever play the game outside of either Hakeem or DRob IMO. Problem is he has the basketball IQ of a third grader, and in the 4th quarter that terrible IQ drops to even lower levels. When he's aggressive and uses his speed/athleticism, he's a very tough guy to gaurd unless you have a Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace on him. However, when he simply relies on his inconsistent outside shot then you see what happened in game 4 tonight and what has happened throughout most 4th quarters.

So he is a taller, more expensive Josh Howard

[KidCongo]

KG is just a glorified allstar; just like so many other allstars in this league. The term superstar is thrown around too loosely in this league. Infact, there are just a couple in my opinion.

In my opinion, the criterior for a superstar is a player that can elevate his game above everyone elses game during crutial moments of the game throughout his entire career, until he gets old of course. As of right now, there are only 3superstars in the NBA,
Duncan
Kobe
LeBron

There are times when I dont even notice that KG is on the floor. There were also times that I didnt realize that he was even still in the league... like the last three years!!!

[ctown916]

KG is just a glorified allstar; just like so many other allstars in this league. The term superstar is thrown around too loosely in this league. Infact, there are just a couple in my opinion.

In my opinion, the criterior for a superstar is a player that can elevate his game above everyone elses game during crutial moments of the game throughout his entire career, until he gets old of course. As of right now, there are only 3superstars in the NBA,
Duncan
Kobe
Iverson

There are times when I dont even notice that KG is on the floor. There were also times that I didnt realize that he was even still in the league... like the last three years!!!


IVERSON? Are you serious? YOu must be an AI stan becuase Iversone is not a Superstar. He used to be and is still a great player but come on. Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Paul. Those are superstars. Which is why all 4 of their teams are still in the hunt for the title.