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Nbadan
05-13-2008, 02:17 PM
Some DISD students not ready for college
06:02 PM CDT on Saturday, May 10, 2008
By CYNTHIA IZAGUIRRE / WFAA-TV

No Child left behind/TAKS has been very efficient.....at making kids dumber....


DALLAS — It's May, which means thousands of high school seniors across North Texas can almost taste it: their diploma. This month 7,500 Dallas ISD seniors are expected to walk across the stage and make their families proud.

But what if we told you that 75 percent of the seniors headed to Dallas community colleges can't read above an 8th grade level, and others can't add or subtract?

Graduation is a time for feeling proud, but that might quickly change to frustration for thousands of DISD students like Gia Hollis come fall, when reality hits.

News 8 requested and received documents from the Dallas County Community College District that show, over the last three years, an average of 75 percent of the DISD students enrolled in classes took at least one developmental education course.

“My reading levels are so low, and I’m really not comprehending, and it’s really holding me back," Hollis said. "It’s taking me longer."

Hollis is in a developmental reading course at El Centro College. Developmental courses prepare students to take college classes. In the Fall of 2007, out of the 1,110 DISD students enrolled in Dallas community colleges, 810 had to take one of these courses.

“This percentage is much too high," said Dr. Joan Rodriguez, who teaches developmental reading at El Centro. In her upper level course, where we met Hollis, most students read at an 8th to 10th grade level, struggling to comprehend what’s in some newspaper articles.

“I get so frustrated," Hollis said. "Don't know why I wasn't taught those skills before coming here and having to be at this point in my life and start all over. It’s been very challenging."

”It's very frustrating ... for the students who come in here who say: ‘Wait a minute, you're asking me to do all this? I don't know how to do this. I don't have enough time to do this. I'm not used to doing this. I don't want to do it,'" Dr. Rodriguez said.

Dr. Rodriguez believes high school tests reward students for minimal knowledge, which won’t work in college where professors expect you to know how to read and comprehend complex sentences. She says college professors don’t grade you on whether you try, but what’s right.

Students who got points for effort in high school find that doesn't apply at the college level.

”We have watered down too much material, and a lot of teachers know that," Dr. Rodriguez said.

One student named Dominique made it clear what the focus was in high school: "I learned enough to pass the TAKS."

And then there's math.

There are some students in these remedial courses who cannot add, subtract, or do basic multiplication. One professor says calculators are a big problem.

“Students have learned which button to push, instead of why they're pushing it," a math teacher told us.

We took our findings straight to Dallas ISD Superintendent Michael Hinojosa.

“That’s why we’re asking our teachers not to use TAKS worksheets," he said. "That’s why we’re asking them to have rigorous instruction so that we can address that issue. It’s important to us.”

Teachers say they're teaching just enough for students to succeed on the TAKS exam.

“That's what we're trying to change," Hinojosa said. "That doesn't happen at every school. I go to school on Wednesdays and we're trying to get that changed, but that's moving an entire system. We'll see that occur in the entire system."

But most teachers will tell you TAKS worksheets are shoved down their throats. We tried to get some teachers to talk on camera, but they declined for fear of getting in trouble.

Dale Kaiser with the National Education Association of Dallas says it’s not just DISD, but the state and federal governments pushing TAKS on teachers.

“Testing should not be the end-all determiner of whether a child learns or not,” Kaiser said. “Teachers have their hands tied. They're told we have to succeed; in fact, principals are given a $10,000 bonus based upon how their students do on TAKS scores. Everything is driven by the test."

So will it ever be possible for teachers to teach so that they don’t live in fear of losing their jobs if they fail to meet the TAKS standards? “We’re teaching them the principles of learning so that they understand that the foundation for what we believe in is academic rigor,” Hinojosa said.

The superintended added that by asking teachers to have so-called “rigorous instruction” in the classroom, it will accomplish his goal in the next couple of years to prove DISD students are college-ready before they graduate.

“It's not just a Dallas issue. It's a national issue. It's a state issue," Hinojosa said. "Of course I'm upset. We don’t need to blame people. We need to fix it."

While Hinojosa talks about fixing things, 7,500 DISD seniors prepare to walk across the stage this month, many of whom won’t be able to handle the daily tasks of higher education.

WFAA (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa080509_jh_disdcollege.e5ca60c9.html)

101A
05-13-2008, 03:05 PM
Just another government program that doesn't deliver what it attempts to.

No surprise there.

boutons_
05-13-2008, 03:39 PM
"government program that doesn't deliver"

Good govt and education are difficult, which doesn't mean neither should be attempted and sustained, unless you're a wimp.

What are the recommendations you didn't bother to make? Too hard?

This a very old story, at least 40+ years old, when the highschools were so pleased that, when the sent grads to college, the HS grads could finally read .... at 8th grade level. Considered to be huge success.

Extra Stout
05-13-2008, 04:56 PM
We have a choice: we can have a system designed either to drag the lowest performers above the passing bar, or a system designed to challenge the higher performers so that they are prepared for higher education.

Or, we can split students to be on one track or the other. What we cannot have is one system that is all things to all people.

If we have a system like we have now, we complain that kids aren't prepared for college, and smart kids aren't challenged. If we have a more rigorous system, we complain about kids that get "left behind." If we were to split kids into different tracks, there would be all sorts of complaining about inequality.

PixelPusher
05-13-2008, 05:06 PM
Aside from the over-arching cultural antipathy for intellectualism that is somewhat unique to this particularly Western industrialized country, there's seems to be a disconnect between education and economic value. We're still stuck in the "training for assembly line work" paradigm.

Clandestino
05-13-2008, 10:04 PM
it's called lazy ass motherfuckers. if you CHOOSE not to apply yourself and fuck around all day in school you won't learn.

Don Quixote
05-14-2008, 12:01 AM
Aside from the over-arching cultural antipathy for intellectualism that is somewhat unique to this particularly Western industrialized country, there's seems to be a disconnect between education and economic value. We're still stuck in the "training for assembly line work" paradigm.


A perceptive post. I've often wondered where our next generation of thinkers, philosophers ... hell, electricians, auto mechanics, machinists, engineers, are going to come from! I don't know what is wrong with kids today (I sound so old), but the majority of them think they're going to party when they grow up.

I haven't seen a lot of kids interested in banking or finance, or the sciences, or languages. Well, not the native-born kids. The immigrant kids (mostly Asians) are hard workers, but the second-generation immigrants mostly just want to be rap stars.

I'm not prepared to offer any solutions, though!

sabar
05-14-2008, 01:42 AM
it's called lazy ass motherfuckers. if you CHOOSE not to apply yourself and fuck around all day in school you won't learn.

This. Fact: parents are the problem, not kids. I'm not special. I'm not gifted, but I can apply myself to understand any material because I was pushed. Being 3 years removed from public education, I can safely say that kids are just lazy and dumb. I took a ton of courses with dumb kids. I aced the exams while they failed. Then everyone blames the teachers.

Guess what? I'm no over-achiever. I didn't learn from textbooks or family, but from the same teachers these failures learned from. They were useless and from broken households. Many had a single parent, did drugs, and didn't care. It's their parents fault.

Everyone wants to blame government for all our problems. Someone mentioned that people from asia can come over and succeed. You know what? They go to these same schools that the drop outs come from, but they have parents that guide them.

Nowadays, parents are dumb. Dumb breeds dumb. The kid doesn't understand addition, they go to their dumb parent that doesn't know either who probably sells coke on street corners at night.

It's sad. Take it from me, I've seen the stuff first hand. I passed the TAKS very easily and I'm in college. I've made the dean's and president's list. And I'm not special. I just had parents that cared a whole lot about my education.

The school has nothing to do with it. The reason that you can put failures in private school and have them succeed is because classes are very small and the teachers can replace the parent since they can devote more time per student. Back in high school I devoted one-on-one time to students that were behind and they ended up learning the material. I did what their parents should have done a long time ago when they were in 3rd or 4th grade learning the fundamentals.

Nbadan
05-14-2008, 01:57 AM
This. Fact: parents are the problem, not kids. I'm not special. I'm not gifted, but I can apply myself to understand any material because I was pushed. Being 3 years removed from public education, I can safely say that kids are just lazy and dumb. I took a ton of courses with dumb kids. I aced the exams while they failed. Then everyone blames the teachers.

Guess what? I'm no over-achiever. I didn't learn from textbooks or family, but from the same teachers these failures learned from. They were useless and from broken households. Many had a single parent, did drugs, and didn't care. It's their parents fault.

Everyone wants to blame government for all our problems. Someone mentioned that people from asia can come over and succeed. You know what? They go to these same schools that the drop outs come from, but they have parents that guide them.

Nowadays, parents are dumb. Dumb breeds dumb. The kid doesn't understand addition, they go to their dumb parent that doesn't know either who probably sells coke on street corners at night.

It's sad. Take it from me, I've seen the stuff first hand. I passed the TAKS very easily and I'm in college. I've made the dean's and president's list. And I'm not special. I just had parents that cared a whole lot about my education.

The school has nothing to do with it. The reason that you can put failures in private school and have them succeed is because classes are very small and the teachers can replace the parent since they can devote more time per student. Back in high school I devoted one-on-one time to students that were behind and they ended up learning the material. I did what their parents should have done a long time ago when they were in 3rd or 4th grade learning the fundamentals.

:worthy:

101A
05-14-2008, 08:39 AM
A perceptive post. I've often wondered where our next generation of thinkers, philosophers ... hell, electricians, auto mechanics, machinists, engineers, are going to come from! I don't know what is wrong with kids today (I sound so old), but the majority of them think they're going to party when they grow up.

I haven't seen a lot of kids interested in banking or finance, or the sciences, or languages. Well, not the native-born kids. The immigrant kids (mostly Asians) are hard workers, but the second-generation immigrants mostly just want to be rap stars.

I'm not prepared to offer any solutions, though!

I have the same concerns, and the from the perspective of a man whose wife is a Biochemistry professor. She gets some of the best performing kids in her classes - when they are Juniors and Seniors. Most are still idiots with very little work ethic or logical reasoning capability. She has to break it to many that they, in fact, are no longer "Pre-Med".

101A
05-14-2008, 08:51 AM
"government program that doesn't deliver"

Good govt and education are difficult, which doesn't mean neither should be attempted and sustained, unless you're a wimp.

What are the recommendations you didn't bother to make? Too hard?

This a very old story, at least 40+ years old, when the highschools were so pleased that, when the sent grads to college, the HS grads could finally read .... at 8th grade level. Considered to be huge success.

"Good Govt" at this size is impossible, IMO. I believe, however, that the debate is over; the country has chosen big government for so long, that it is a self fulfilling prophesy.

Gas prices too high? What's the government gonna do about it?

Unemployment too high? What's the government gonna do about it?

I took out a loan I can't pay for? What's the government gonna do about it?

I gave a loan to a person who can't pay? What's the government gonna do about it?

Pats cheat at football? What's the government gonna do about it?

Screw it.

I'm not going to worry about the government or its policies; I'm gonna make mine. I'm gonna make sure my kids are educated, regardless of what happens at school; I'm gonna amass my wealth in traditional securities, and in some that I can acually touch, hold and squirrel away.

Hell, there's a pretty bright professor here at my wife's university that is CONVINCED that we are just a few years (4 -10) from a complete societal meltdown; that food prices are going to go so ape shit, average people aren't going to be able to afford to feed their families; they also don't have the means or wherewithal to produce for themselves, so they are going to take to taking it from those that have it. Dudes a real buzz kill, and normally I'd just laugh and walk away, but on the off chance this (honest to god genius) is correct, I keep a pretty good arsenal in my closet.

Solutions B? I just finished watching the PBS special on FDR - and was, frankly, stunned at how unimpressive a person he was. Mama's boy, never had a real job; stabbed his boss in the back to further his own political career; philanderer - was personable and a smooth talker, and convinced the population that the govt. was the solution to ALL their problems. We'll never recover.

xrayzebra
05-14-2008, 09:23 AM
101A government is the problem. We have a bunch of self-centered ego's in Washington
and Austin who think they are experts in all things. When in reality they haven't got
the sense God gave a doorknob. Most, like Obama, have never had any experience in
managing anything except "activist" activities. I read the other day, Obama has
about 140 some odd days experience as a Senator. And people will more than likely
elect him has our next President.

We have a bunch of over-educated social activist who run the nations schools and
a bunch of politicians, as described above, and you expect Johnny to read. We spend
terrible amounts of money on children with metal and physical handicaps in public
schools because it feels good. Is anyone here really aware of how many people are
employed to care for these children? Do you ever wonder why the physical facilities
of our schools get into such disrepair when we spend hundreds of thousands of
dollars every year on physical facilities. Anyone who has a home should look at their
yearly taxes and see which taxing entity gets the biggest bite. And they still want
more. But it is for the children. Crap, it is for the big spending administrators, the
social activist and experimenters. Get back to old hard nose basics and Johnny will
bed able to read, rite and do rithmatick.

baseline bum
05-14-2008, 12:12 PM
We have a choice: we can have a system designed either to drag the lowest performers above the passing bar, or a system designed to challenge the higher performers so that they are prepared for higher education.

Or, we can split students to be on one track or the other. What we cannot have is one system that is all things to all people.

If we have a system like we have now, we complain that kids aren't prepared for college, and smart kids aren't challenged. If we have a more rigorous system, we complain about kids that get "left behind." If we were to split kids into different tracks, there would be all sorts of complaining about inequality.

The public education system is great if you're college bound. The AP classes are pretty rigorous, and do a great job preparing people for college. However, I'd say maybe 1/3rd of graduates are going to succeed at college, and it's ridiculous that all students are pushed to it. You don't have to go to college to be a skilled worker, and our system fails those who don't.

It's ridiculous that high schools push people towards getting shit jobs at McDonalds. There was a class at my high school where tons of people would go get course credit for working at fucking Subway or Jack n the Crack. What the hell are the schools hoping their students will learn by waiting for a buzzer?

Our schools need to focus on teaching people skilled work other than college prep. This country is always going to need mechanics, plumbers, construction workers, law enforcement, electricians, welders, and so on that are seemingly looked down upon by this college or bust attitude in our high schools. Of course someone who only knows how to flip burgers is a lot more likely to turn to selling drugs and other kinds of shit that brings our whole society down.

Nbadan
05-14-2008, 12:26 PM
I know, let's throw creationism and contempt into the schools - that will solve the problems...


ORLANDO, Fla. -- Parents are outraged over letters being sent home from Central Florida schools calling their children overweight.

...

"I don't feel that it's accurate," parent Solan Udell said. "I don't feel that he's overweight. You don't look at my son and say he's overweight."

"It makes me feel bad for my son, I guess," parent Kiely Solby said. "I don't want anything negative said about my son. You try for the best for your children."

Solby and other parents are blasting Florida's latest health screening report cards, calling the findings pure insult and bad math, Local 6's Mike Holfeld reported.

...

"They felt like they were being accused of something," Orange County school health services Regina Hayward said.

That prompted the county to develop a new letter explaining the screening isn't fool proof and doesn’t take muscle mass or bone structure into account.

Local6 (http://www.local6.com/spotlight/16259092/detail.html)