A look at the Spurs offense in game 5 (you knew it was coming)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This is a continuation in the series. Sadly, tonight's numbers look significantly different than games 3-4. People can call me out all they want, our offense was stale, predictable, and stupid. Thanks Pop.

For a refresher,

Game 3

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94672

Game 4

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95026

On to game 5. Don't ask me what the last couple of minutes of garbage time looked like, I was so pissed and Pop had pulled the starters, so I turned it off, went, and drank heavily for about ten minutes.

On to the stats...

Plays were broken down into six categories:

1. 4down, defined as any play that put Duncan on the low block, gave him an entry pass, and resulted in a double by the Hornets.

2. Pick and roll, pretty self explanatory. Think all of these but one were run on the side, not up high.

3. Isolation plays, where the ball was given to a Spur to go one on one against his man, with no screen help or anything coming for him.

4. Motion offense. This is a catchall of sorts, but the Spurs actually have a pretty nice motion offense that they run from time to time (judging on the resuts, I really wish they would run more...).

5. Set inbounds plays. Called plays out of an out of bounds situation for a shot.

6. Transition opportunities. Baskets scored in transition.

All that said, on to the numbers, in the format of successful trips (defined as either a basket or two FTs) - total number of times the play was run.

I only counted the main play that led to a scoring attempt. For example, if we looked for Tim in the 4down look but Chandler had him fronted or pushed too far out, so we reset and ran a pick and roll that got us a shot, that play counted as a pick and roll play.

I realize that probably isn't the perfect way to chart all this, but this whole thing started with the idea of charting the plays that actually led to a shot attempt.

1st quarter:

1st quarter
-----------
PnR: 6-12 (six scores on 13 times it was run)
Iso: 0-1
Motion: 0-1
Inbounds: 0-0
Transition: 1-1
4Down: 2-6

2nd quarter
-----------
PnR: 6-7
Iso: 0-0
Motion: 3-4
Inbounds: 0-1
Transition: 1-2
4Down: 1-9 :pctoss

3rd Quarter
-----------
PnR: 1-6
Iso: 2-5
Motion: 1-1
Inbounds: 0-0
Transition: 0-2
4Down: 0-7 :pctoss

4th Quarter (prior to garbage time)
---------------------------------
PnR: 1-4
Iso: 0-0
Motion: 3-5
Transition: 2-4
4down: 1-3


Totals for the game prior to garbage time (% scoring on this play set)
-----------------------------------------
PnR: 14-29 (48%)
Iso: 2-6 (33%)
Motion: 6-11 (54%)
Inbounds: 0-1 (0%)
Transition: 4-9 (44%)
4Down: 4-25 (16%) :bang:bang:bang

General thoughts:

I'm sure this will come as a shock to many of you reading the board tonight, but fuck four down. Go look at games 3-4 vs. game 5.

In game 4, the Spurs utilized 4down on just 13% of their play sets for the game. The Spurs motion and pick and roll accounted for 60% of the play sets in that game.

Game 3 had similar numbers to game 4.

Tonight, 4down accounted for almost a full third of the offensive sets the Spurs run. And we were 4-25.

Look, I know Tim is a great player. But this is the thing that has pissed me off from the beginning of time with Pop and Tim. If Tim comes out and has one of his crap games (5-18 tonight), Pop seems to think the solution is to force the game to him and force feed him on the low block.

If you want to get Tim some touches, fine. Get him the ball up top on the high low. Get him the ball for an open jumper off the pick and roll. Get it to him out on the angle for his glass jumper.

But instead we got four down and more four down. At one point tonight in the second quarter, we ran it on six straight trips (for one basket). We had another span in the killer third quarter where we ran it on six of nine possessions (came away with 7 misses and 2 turnovers).

People can call me a Pophater and a 4down trasher, whatever they want, that's fine. Our ball movement stagnated tonight in the second and third. It was stand around and watch Duncan brick another.

You can argue that some of the fault lies with the other players on the court for not moving without the ball, but of late in the playoffs all 4down has been about is spotting everyone up around the arc and letting Tim do his thing.

Can we please for the name of all that is holy and silver and black get some damn variety in our offense? The trend was less 4down in games 3-4, which boosted our scoring and got everyone involved.

Tonight, like games 1-2, it was a heavy dose of 4down, the offense stagnated, and that was that.

Nothing crystalizes this for me more than the second quarter tonight.

We scored 21 points on all offensive sets not named 4down (14 possessions). We scored 2 points (TWO!! TWO FREAKIN' POINTS!) on 4down (9 possessions).

And that's when NO got rolling.

This remains my one critical beef with Pop and Duncan. On nights when Duncan isn't doing worth a damn, we have other options (I hear Parker and Ginobili are pretty good, and have been known to score in double figures a time or two...).

But yet we keep forcing it to Tim. If he's drawing fouls and getting to the line, that's fine, but it's nights like tonight when he goes 5-18 and is throwing up weak shit over his shoulder that he doesn't deserve to get the damn ball as much.

Some will say (and in some cases have already said) that NO was hedging harder on our pick and roll. That's true, and fine. The most successful set in the last three games outside of the pick and roll has been the Spurs motion offense.

Game 4: 6-7
Game 5: 6-11

Where was it when we were getting smoked in the third tonight? Oh yeah, we were still forcing it into Tim :rolleyes

As I said after game 2, this team cannot win this series relying on 4down as much. It's what Byron Scott has bet on, and what Pop has been more than happy to try and challenge in three horrible losses in New Orleans.

We go back to SA, we run more pick and roll, more motion, and we've been blowing them out.

Everyone can (and will) take from these stats whatever they will. That's fine, but these are some hard numbers to digest if you're a Spurs fan. Why go so radically away from what worked in games 3-4, particularly when Duncan's playing like he has the flu again?

To get to game 7, I will argue that we need to see more of the games 3-4 Spurs offense. If we force feed Tim like games 1,2, and 5 in New Orleans, I don't think this team makes it back to New Orleans.

If it does, and Pop obliges Scott with more 4down, this team's season ends at the latest on next Monday.

Time to wake the hell up and earn your paycheck, Pop. You too, Tim.

[Parkerlooms]

The "what the fuck do we do now" Spurs were back in full effect tonight.

[dbreiden83080]

TimVP help here, this is too much info for me.

[Budkin]

Thanks again Aggie! Maybe someone will watch film and stop going to 4-down in time for game 7.

[ducks]

email it to ludden
email it to local sa paper

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

By the way, I did tweak this based on LJ's suggestion... if the Spurs started out one play, and then ran something else, I gave play 1 credit for it.

1st quarter: a play started out 4down, then on the rotation turned into a pick and roll, Parker hit a three, I gave 4down credit (so it actually got boosted by one here :lol).

All other similar plays were misses and were attributed to the original sets run.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I agree to a point with AHF. 4-down should be there, but it should be a much smaller part of the offensive repertoire.

Our team looks best when they MOVE THE BALL and PENETRATE. There was heaps of both in game 4, not much of either tonight.

Oh, and if they are going to pack the lane, Barry needs to play. He'll drop 3s on that shit like it's raining.

[timvp]

First of all, 4-down was horrible tonight ... but that was because Duncan was sucking complete azz offensively. If he goes 5-for-18, no matter how he's getting his shots, the Spurs will lose.

But the Hornets did a good job of taking away everything else. The Spurs run a pick-and-roll? The Hornets would blitz it and then rotate to the open shooters. The Spurs run motion? The Hornets would sag and then even the motion sets would morph into 4-down because of all the sagging in the lane.

A lot of the time, 4-down wasn't the main play going up the court. Everything else was being taken away and the Spurs ended up looking for TD down low.

However, it's way too simplistic to just say don't run 4-down and the Spurs will win. First of all, Duncan has to play like his head isn't residing in his azz. Second of all, if Manu or Tony get blitzed ... they have to make the Hornets pay with a quick pass. Third of all, the shooters can't go ice cold in the second half and allow more and more sagging.

Believe me, Pop didn't go into this game thinking the Spurs should pound it into Duncan repeatedly and forget everything else. The Hornets changed up their defensive strategy and the Spurs didn't figure it out. After not figuring it out, the team reverted back to it's safety net of getting the ball to Duncan.

As good as Manu and Tony are, the Spurs still win by being inside-out. The threat of TD was huge in Game 3 and Game 4, even if he wasn't carrying the offense. There was not threat of TD doing anything other than putting up a weak shot while looking for a foul ... which allowed the Hornets to basically ignore him, ignore the other big and make sure Manu and Tony wouldn't win the game on their own.

[DespЏrado]

Aggie you do your annual fire pop argument a hell of a lot more service with analysis like these. And that's a hell of a good analysis for the game. Keep posting these especially for people who don't understand why some nights we look like a fluid dynamic team and others we look like fools standing at Duncan and trying to bail ourselves out with 3s.

It makes me wonder if PJ in someway kept Pop in the motion game when he was here, because I swear we've dealt with this crap before. Like every year the Lakers beat us, and pop stopped doing it so much in the last couple of years.

[T Park]

First of all, 4-down was horrible tonight ... but that was because Duncan was sucking complete azz offensively. If he goes 5-for-18, no matter how he's getting his shots, the Spurs will lose.

Yup.

The Hornets took away and everything and they didn't adjust, and Duncan's shit play killed em.

That simple.

[T Park]

h, and if they are going to pack the lane, Barry needs to play. He'll drop 3s on that shit like it's raining.


Yeah that 0fer he chucked up tonight was a practical hurricane.

[sabar]

how many open shots did we brick? open meaning mostly uncontested. No excuses to miss those. If you go down on the low block, then the man doubling should give his ex-defender an uncontested 3 shot. Problem? We either:

1. brick uncontested shot
2. player wide open isn't a 3-pt shooter

we also played the pick-n-roll, the most fundamental play to get an easy basket, like total garbage at key points.

Lets not forget our butter fingers. NO with 8 steals. Spurs with countless turnovers. It's like we played a 5 man squad of Nazr clones.

[MannyIsGod]

First of all, 4-down was horrible tonight ... but that was because Duncan was sucking complete azz offensively. If he goes 5-for-18, no matter how he's getting his shots, the Spurs will lose.

But the Hornets did a good job of taking away everything else. The Spurs run a pick-and-roll? The Hornets would blitz it and then rotate to the open shooters. The Spurs run motion? The Hornets would sag and then even the motion sets would morph into 4-down because of all the sagging in the lane.

A lot of the time, 4-down wasn't the main play going up the court. Everything else was being taken away and the Spurs ended up looking for TD down low.

However, it's way too simplistic to just say don't run 4-down and the Spurs will win. First of all, Duncan has to play like his head isn't residing in his azz. Second of all, if Manu or Tony get blitzed ... they have to make the Hornets pay with a quick pass. Third of all, the shooters can't go ice cold in the second half and allow more and more sagging.

Believe me, Pop didn't go into this game thinking the Spurs should pound it into Duncan repeatedly and forget everything else. The Hornets changed up their defensive strategy and the Spurs didn't figure it out. After not figuring it out, the team reverted back to it's safety net of getting the ball to Duncan.

As good as Manu and Tony are, the Spurs still win by being inside-out. The threat of TD was huge in Game 3 and Game 4, even if he wasn't carrying the offense. There was not threat of TD doing anything other than putting up a weak shot while looking for a foul ... which allowed the Hornets to basically ignore him, ignore the other big and make sure Manu and Tony wouldn't win the game on their own.

Thank you.

The Spurs can't keep resetting PnR everytime that Chandler comes over the top. They were taking away the corner turn and if you can't around chandler you're in a trap at the 3 point line and you're never going to get the ball to the hole.

At that point you have to make the smart passes and if the rotation comes quick you have to drive past them. The problem is that Bowen and Finely can't drive reliably and they were coming off of those guys and forcing the ball into their hands. If Finely doen'st lay a complete egg tonight then the outcome may be a lot different.

A lot of times you have to go to Duncan on the block because there is nothing else open. The Hornets played really really good defense tonight and although I think there are a lot of things the Spurs could do better (namely hit some open fucking shots) you guys have to realize that there are times when a team will impose its will on the Spurs because they are playing too.

It gets so tiring to read the same old bullshit blaming pop as if Pop is the one who made Duncan come out and play like ass or if Pop missed every Finely jumper. Even when Parker makes the perfect pass NO makes a great rotation play and Udoka goes up weak as hell. This game wasn't lost because of bad offense, it was lost because NO came out to win the game while the Spurs came out expecting NO to roll over. This is a veteran team and they should know better.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's an idea. On that four down crap, send someone cutting into the lane. We never do it. And don't tell me a guy can't get free from his man on the wing. Send someone else to go set a back pick on his man.

We never do this though. Four down is just force feed Duncan, have everyone stand around the perimeter, and then throw up a brick on the kick out.


\It gets so tiring to read the same old bullshit blaming pop as if Pop is the one who made Duncan come out and play like ass

It gets old seeing people defend Pop for continuing to force feed Duncan with 4down when Duncan's playing like ass, so I guess we're even.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats not the Spurs strength. You don't have cutters on this team who can catch and finish except maybe Brent Barry. I sure as hell don't want that from Udoka, Bowen, or Finley. Manu and Tony could, but they're not getting any space.

The Hornets aren't stupid AHF. They know what the weak point in the Spurs is and they're trying to exploit it. Our shooters need to hit shots in order to open up the middle. Its no suprise the Spurs offense goes to shit when they don't make the double teams pay.

[dbreiden83080]

Tim has a bad game and it was because he didn't give a fuck give me a fucking break. :rolleyes

[MemphisSpursFan]

While Pop may be the best coach in the NBA, it IS time for a reality check. His decisions have been suspect all year! Poor coaching/execution lost this game/series/championship!

[timvp]

A lot of times you have to go to Duncan on the block because there is nothing else open. The Hornets played really really good defense tonight and although I think there are a lot of things the Spurs could do better (namely hit some open fucking shots) you guys have to realize that there are times when a team will impose its will on the Spurs because they are playing too. That is true. There were a number of possessions where the Spurs got blitzed out of what they were really trying to do and then went to Duncan because he was the most open player on the court. It's like some want Pop to tell the players to not pass it to Duncan.

And I think we should clear up that the actual 4-down play has been run about three or four times all series. Just because Duncan gets the ball in the low block doesn't mean the Spurs just ran 4-down. 4-down is a specific play where a swingman comes off of a downscreen, gets the ball in the corner and then passes it down to Duncan on the block. I've only seen Pop call that play twice and I've seen the point guard call it once or twice.

There are *gasp* a lot of other plays that involve Duncan touching the ball.