Massenburg should remain as starter

[spur219]

Massenburg was going up against one of the best centers in the league with Brad Miller and not to mention Chris Webber and he comes out with 16 and 8. Those are numbers Rasho would of never came close to especially against Webber and Miller. With this performance it shows that Tony wants it more. And yes it's only one game but you can tell that Massenburg has the passion to win and to be agressive and throw his body when he needs to. Massenburg should remain the starter. Also Marks had a decent game and with a couple of more games under his belt he should come up with some better numbers. Rasho should remain in IR but the sucker gets paid too much to stay there. Time to trade I saw things in Marks that I really liked.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This is dumb. This is a title contending team. Massenberg is 37. I'd rather have him off the bench when we need him than having to rely on someone his age as our starting center. Further, he is not a shot blocking presence who is going to deter teams from driving the lane, and he doesn't have the reputation to stay out of foul trouble when he does try to go and get shots (like tonight when he blocked Brad Miller clean).

Further, people seem caught up in his great game tonight. It was against his old team, a team that told him he was too old for them to re-sign. You think he didn't want to kick their ass?

Please people, let's have some perspective.

[T Park]

trade him.

[SequSpur]

This is preposterous.

[T Park]

screw perspective.

obviously two 12th men are better than Rasho Nesterovic.

Trade Nesterovic for another 12th man so we can be unbeatable.

[Kori Ellis]

It was against his old team, a team that told him he was too old for them to re-sign. You think he didn't want to kick their ass?

Not only did they tell him that he was too old. They treated him like shit last season when he went off saying they didn't play any D. This was a sweet revenge game for Mass, but I wouldn't pencil him in as a starter for the season.

Let's see how these next few weeks pan out. Rasho does what the Spurs need defensively, for the most part, so I think he'll get his starting job back unless something miraculous happens.

[IceColdBrewski]

Love it. Welcome to the "Rasho haters" club 219. ;)

[Rummpd]

Lets just hope he brings same effort in payback game for Kings on natonal tv TH (TNT).

Crush the Queens again!

[spur219]

Sure don't pencil him as the starter because he won't be but come on this is Rasho's worst season probably ever as a Spur. I might of exaggerated a bit by saying that Tony should remain the starter because I know his age and he wont be able to handle it. But I did say it as an exaggeration on purpose just to show that Rasho while sometimes might be a good defensive prescence he just doesn't do it enough or everytime he is on the court. Tony is a better player than Rasho I have always thought that. I know that this was a revenge game for Tony but I am confident that he can pull more performances like this just given the chance.

[spur219]

I didn't mean to say Rasho's worst season as a Spur I mean to say in his professional career. He played decent last season and you would think that after a year under the Spurs system that he would be playing better because that is what I honestly thought. I never was happy with the Rasho signing and do think that he is overpaid for the limited things that he does on the court. Yes he might do some shot blocking here and there. But the guy is a 7footer and a starting center and only averaging about 5 boards a game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

to show that Rasho while sometimes might be a good defensive prescence he just doesn't do it enough or everytime he is on the court.

Rasho is in the top 15 in the league in blocks, has been each of the last 2-3 years. This statement is just not right.

Watch what happens the next few weeks with Rasho out - teams will be attacking the interior much, much more with no one there to get Duncan's back defensively.

[T Park]

I never was happy with the Rasho signing

of course.

They shouldve signed Olowakandi right Spur?


[/QUOTE]5 boards a game.[QUOTE]

he averages 7. But dont let that hide your hate.

[E20]

Give the starting PF job to Malik and let Duncan play C. Then distrubute the big man minutes between Horry, Marks and Massenburg.

[spur219]

TPark did I ever say that they should of signed Olowakandi. No I don't think I ever said that did I? Okay just wanted to make myself clear.

Aggie I give that to you that statement from me was not right. Yes Rasho is a good defensive force but sometimes he can do so much more and he does not take advantage of it.

[T Park]

Spur, you said signing him was a mistake.

Olowakandi was the only other one available.

Who would you have signed???

[spur219]

No not exactly. You already had Marks out there and Horry. Rose could of started for one year and the following year could of signed Erick Dampier who is a much better defender. Also they could of maybe tried to do a trade for Brad Miller instead of helping the Kings out by getting them. There were so many options you just can't look at that years free agents.

[wildbill2u]

Has Duncan EVER expressed a desire to play center? Has Pop EVER expressed the idea that Duncan should play center because he would be better at that position?

[spur219]

wildbill you just mentioned another option that I didn't list. Duncan at center and signed a PF. But I don't think Duncan wants to play center I think he should though.

[Sense]

Mass was good, but he has to show that he's consistent..remember that the Kingz are not a very good defensive team, and he knew how they played, plus the hate.

This should've been a good game for him, don't expect this to happen every day, unless Duncan helps him.

And Duncan wouldn't be a good center, Rasho will continue to be a starter because he's 7'0 and he can play defense and create.

and Malik will NEVER be a starter..

or so I pray to God.

[Kori Ellis]

Duncan plays center all the time. He doesn't start listed as the center, but he's the center. He's the post player (center) in the offense. He is definitely at center when he's in the game with Malik, Horry, etc.

[spur219]

There you go Duncan plays center.

[Sense]

Duncan plays center all the time. He doesn't start listed as the center, but he's the center. He's the post player (center) in the offense. He is definitely at center when he's in the game with Malik, Horry, etc.


Do you however think that would help?


Centers usually aren't better scorers than Forwards....and Malik and Horry usually can't handle them, especially Malik.


I think today's game was great, and Tim should continue to just be a Forward, or start as one.

[T Park]

Id inquire about PJ Brown from New Orleans, seeing as New Orleans is cleaning house.

[spur219]

TPark now there you go. I would of thought that PJ Brown would of been an excellent choice. He is a very good defensive force and can certainly clean up those boards. I would also inquire about PJ Brown. Although I do think the Hornets gave him a hefty contract.

[Kori Ellis]

Do you however think that would help?

Do I think Tim starting at center and someone else starting at PF would help?

No, I think the Spurs best starting lineup is the one they normally use -- Rasho, Tim, Bruce, Manu and Tony. The amount of depth that the Spurs have this season is amazing, but I think those guys are definitely the starters.

[Dre_7]

If Mass sucks horribly in his next few games, people will be sayin "Why is he starting? He sucks!"

[T Park]

Erick Dampier who is a much better defender.

Erick Dampier sucks.

Do you not watch when the Spurs have played Dallas that Rasho has kicked his ass both times.


PJ Brown makes probobly as much maybe more than Rasho.


Brad Miller is getting big money from Sacramento.

I too said to bring in Brad Miller, he was my first pick at centers if Kori remembers right.

But Miller is gonna make 8 digits here pretty soon so hes gonna be overpaid.


Spur thats whats funny.

There was, nor is there, any good center choices.

Rasho, is, and still is, the best the Spurs are gonna do for a center.

So saying they couldve "Done Better" Is a stretch.

[SequSpur]

Dude, why are you the media rep for Rasho?

Do you love him?

[T Park]

WTF do you care.

Go polish your wrist guard and shut up.

[SequSpur]

:lol

[spur219]

No it's not a stretch. And in what way has Rasho kicked Dampiers ass.

PJ does make more than Rasho but also provides more. The only thing that funny is that you don't want to believe that the Spurs could of done better because your only limiting the choices to Kandi Man and Rasho.

[T Park]

And in what way has Rasho kicked Dampiers ass[QUOTE]

outrebounding him, defending alot better. blocking more shots.

Dampier is a one year wonder, try not to get caught up in the hype.

The only thing that funny is that you don't want to believe that the Spurs could of done better because your only limiting the choices to Kandi Man and Rasho.
[QUOTE]

BECAUSE THATS WHAT THE SPURS CHOICES WERE!!!!!

PJ resigned with New Orleans

Jermaine Oneal Resigned

other than that Miller wanted too much

and thats IT.

There was NO waiting till the next year, that wasn't an option.

[Useruser666]

I think Rasho is more effective with the second unit(not withDuncan). I think that Massenburg is more effective with the starters on the floor. Start whoever, but keep the people who are out there together at the same time different. Massenburg is effective at crashing the boards when his man is trying to help out on Tim or a penetration. He also is more capable in finishing on dishes from such breakdowns in the defense. Rasho is not a strong finisher and is better suited to the post without Duncan being there.

[FromWayDowntown]

Summer of 2003, the Spurs made runs at other bigs, Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand specifically, but couldn't get the deals to work out -- O'Neal because Indy could pay him more and Brand because he was restricted and the Clippers were obviously going to match any offer, but make teams wait for 15 days, crippling their ability to sign free agents. When O'Neal and Brand were no longer on the board, the Spurs had 3 choices: sign Rasho or Olowokandi straight up, or work a sign and trade for Miller.

I recall that Spurs brass rejected the Miller idea fairly early on, mostly because Miller has never been a good defender. For his size, he blocks very few shots -- he had 43 blocks in 72 games in 2002-03 (though his BPG have gone up dramatically in Sacramento). Clearly, Miller is a much better offensive player than either Rasho or Olowokandi, but he can't hold a candle to Rasho on the defensive end, and that was the tiebreaker for a franchise that hangs banners because of its commitment to defense.

Somehow, not dealing for Miller is problematic to some, even though the Spurs were able to create cap space -- cap space that permitted them to acquire Barry and resign Parker, Manu -- by getting in the middle of the Indy-Sac deal; had they engaged straight up in the sign-and-trade for Miller, there would be no Brent Barry in SA now and resigning Manu could have been tight.

Since O'Neal, Brand, and Miller were out of the picture, the choice between Rasho and Olowokandi was pretty easy, and, I think, obviously correct.

You could quarrel with the Spurs absolutist idea of acquiring a true center, but since they predicate their defense on having two legitimate shotblockers on the floor (and having at least one on the floor at all times) Rasho has pretty much been what they expected defensively. They have 2 guys in the top 15 in blocks, making them the toughest team to score against in the NBA, which translates (for now at least) into the league's best record.

What is there to really complain about?

[ChumpDumper]

What is there to really complain about?His offense.

[Useruser666]

The Rasho of this year could not beat the Rasho of last year one on one.

[FromWayDowntown]

His offense.

A valid complaint, since the Spurs are, for the moment at least, only among the best teams ever in point differential -- plenty of reason for concern.

[ChumpDumper]

Knowing what Rasho is capable of, it is indeed a valid complaint.

[FromWayDowntown]

Fair enough -- but the question as I understand it is whether, at the time it went down, the Spurs made the right move in signing Rasho. I'd argue that even with his down season (which permits the critics to judge with hindsight), the Spurs made the best move they could have, and that when compared with other centers not named Shaq, Yao, and Zydrunas, and among players who were reasonably available, the Spurs got the best player for their team.

[Useruser666]

And I can spell compared to Ducks. Does that make me an l33t grammar smacker?!

[T Park]

FWD

I have given up defending him. You might as well too.

Whatever facts you give them, they come up with 5 more reasons to not like him.


Screw it. He isnt worth our time. Let them hate him.

Fuck it, just cut him and sign Elden Cambell.

That will make everyone exstatic.

[Sec24Row7]

Rasho Nesuckovic doesn't suck at all.

Watch him play on the defensive end of the court.

He is in the right spot EVERY time.

Did people get pissed about BRUCE's offense when he is shutting down people in the peremeter every night?

Last night Peja's Dunk and Miller's two layups would NEVER have happend if Rasho had been in the game.

That was the first thought that came to my mind.

I HATE seeing people lay in a bucket on the Spurs. I'm just not used to it, and Rasho is the main reason. (of course vice versa if Tim were out.)

[Spurminator]

Did people get pissed about BRUCE's offense when he is shutting down people in the peremeter every night?

Confusingly, yes.

But I think the complaint against Rasho is a perceived lack of effort (not talent) on the offensive end, something that can't really be said about Bowen. I would agree both with those who defend the signing of Rasho compared to other options (laid out very well by FWD previously) and with those who wish Rasho would be a bit more reliable on the offensive end. We all now what he's capable of in regards to shooting, and I don't think developing a reliable offense while maintaining his current defensive abilities is an unreasonable desire from a fan's perspective.

[dougp]

I question why put Tony in anyways?

Why not move Tim to center and maybe push Barry or Udrih off the bench and see how that plays out? Both of those guys play a satisfying D without getting into foul trouble, atleast until Horry can come back and tango w/ Duncan in the key to keep the drives out.

[ShoogarBear]

But I think the complaint against Rasho is a perceived lack of effort (not talent) on the offensive end, something that can't really be said about Bowen.

This is precisely the point.

It is perfectly evident that Bruce spends time working on being a more complete offensive player. Sometimes during games we wish he wasn't trying out his new skills, but the overall result is that Bruce makes more of an impact on the offensive end of the court than he ever has before.

It is also perfectly obvious that Rasho has not improved himself at all on the offensive end, and makes less of an impact than he ever has before, despite having more ability.

[Useruser666]

I never said don't sign Rasho. I just want him to play better. He doesn't give it all his effort and that's what I believe is wrong with him. He is not playing as well as he did last year even. He needs to toughen up and be more aggressive. He needs to be able to finish close to the basket. Is that too much to ask for? Maybe Massenburg sucks ass on defense, but did you see him score 16 points on easy shots and put backs? Rasho needs to be able to handle that responsibility.