A brand new team next season?

[Soul_Patch]

Many commentators have been saying this, they expect San Antonio to gut most of the roster leaving the only untouchables (obviously) Tim, Manu, Tony.

What do you think? Do you think something like this is likely? It is honestly kind of exciting, I've been rooting for the same guys for many years now, and they haven't dissapointed for the most part, but some new life is always exciting, definately lends to much speculation and criticisms...


What or who do you think may get changed? Anything?

[mytespurs]

I think Horry, Barry and Finley are gone.

I'm not surprised this would happen; the Spurs need to retool. As long as they have the big 3, they'll be competitive but I expect a lull in championships.

[Extra Stout]

Many commentators have been saying this, they expect San Antonio to gut most of the roster leaving the only untouchables (obviously) Tim, Manu, Tony.

What do you think? Do you think something like this is likely? It is honestly kind of exciting, I've been rooting for the same guys for many years now, and they haven't dissapointed for the most part, but some new life is always exciting, definately lends to much speculation and criticisms...


What or who do you think may get changed? Anything?
"many commentators" Link?

[easjer]

Well, given how many contracts are up and how many are expected to retire, yeah. I'm expecting a 'new' team. Not that big a deal though - I think that's the case whether they are eliminated tonight or repeat as Champs.

Horry, Fin, Barry are old. Stoudamire is worthless. Vaughn isn't much better. Udoka and KT are toss-ups, but I think Udoka is worth keeping - I like what he's done this year. Bonner is under contract, but if an offer comes open (which I doubt) I expect he'll go. Otherwise, he'll fill the perpetual Kiwi role. Oberto, Mahinmi remain under contract, and I expect they'll remain with this team. Bowen is untouchable, as is the Big Three, imo.

What is earth-shattering about this?

[Strike]

Though it's been thrown around for years, I do think the Spurs are finally too old. It's not the whole team, just 4 or 5 of the vets. Horry, Damon, Finley, Barry, and Thomas all need to be put out to pasture. Other players like Bonner, Oberto, and Vaughn need to go.

I think it might be time to rebuild around Parker, Ginobili and Duncan. I just hope they can do it on the fly. I'd hate to see the dynasty die like that.

[hater]

if you are actually beleiving what commentator say, you are in a sad state

[Los Spurs]

Many commentators have been saying this, they expect San Antonio to gut most of the roster leaving the only untouchables (obviously) Tim, Manu, Tony.

What do you think? Do you think something like this is likely? It is honestly kind of exciting, I've been rooting for the same guys for many years now, and they haven't dissapointed for the most part, but some new life is always exciting, definately lends to much speculation and criticisms...


What or who do you think may get changed? Anything?

Regardless of what any commentator says, we can see that we definetely need some young guys to back up our BIG THREE. Once that happens, plenty of these will keep on coming :lobt2:

I'm in for a good change!

[Soul_Patch]

There is no link, just things said by the talking heads on ESPN or during game time. Regardless of if you believe them or not, it makes sense.

There are a lot of people on this roster that most likely will be gone next season due to age or otherwise.

It will be interesting to see what kind of team shows up next season.

[Los Spurs]

All I know is that when Duncan decides to retire, I will miss the Big Guy. He's been one hell of a player since 99'

[whottt]

Shouldn't we actually have some replacements lined up or at least in mind before we actually get rid of the guys we have?


Young players can suck too.


Getting younger just for the sake of getting younger is stupid fucking idea that only comes from the mouths of journalists and inexperienced fans.




I don't mind having some old guys on the bench. We've had them every single time we've won a title, and they've played a role every single time...sometimes a really large role.

And these guys tend to make better bench players because they don't really care about PT, and they know how to keep themselves sharp. They also don't get overwhelmed or confused or their inexperience capitalized on.


A look at some of the aged guys on our championship teams:

99 - Elie(36), Perdue(33), Kersey(37)...for that matter Kerr was 33.

03 - Drob(37), Kerr(37), Ferry(36), Willis(40)...for that matter Smitty was 33.

05 - Tony Massenburg(37), Bruce Bowen(33), Robert Horry(34)...for that matter Glenn Bigg Dogg Robbinsonn was 33.

07 - Bowen and Horry still plus Barry and Finley are added to the list.

And IMO, Bruce was our true finals MVP last season...and he's probably the MVP of this series as well.


IIRC, Bruce was over 30 when he signed with the Spurs in the first place.


So you see....old players in and of themselves are not the problem. A great deal of the time these guys turn out to be the ones that pull asses out of the fire during a playoff run, while younger players falter.


The problem arises when the team is built around old players, and forced to start a lot of them or rely on them heavily.


The problem arises when the stars get old.



The problem arises, when you are paying old players a ton of money.






The biggest problems facing this team are not the ages of Barry, Horry and Finley or even Kurt Thomas...


And with the Udoka signing...the problem is not Bruce Bowen as much as it was last season.



The biggest problem this team has...without a doubt, is the age of Manu Ginobili and the toll his style of play exerts on his body.


And you know what? Manu's don't grow on trees. They are extremely difficult to aquire, via the draft FA or any other means available. In fact I can promise you, we won't be getting one this summer...no matter how many old mofos we cut.




So I'd just hold off on jettisoning this bench until you know what you are going to get to replace them.


I personally think you sign Horry for the vet min for as long as he wants to play, because he's still ten times the player Massenberg and Ferry were. ...because he does a great many things, and I have a feeling these contributions go beyond what you see on the court. It may just be his general attitude.


On top off all that...we still need a freaking long three, of any age.


And in addition...we have two very young bigs coming on board next season.



No...this team basically needs two things...


A young scoring guard..and a long SF. We do not need to jettison our two time championship bench blindly.

[Strike]

All I know is that when Duncan decides to retire, I will miss the Big Guy. He's been one hell of a player since 99'

'99? He's been playing since '97/'98. He was the rookie of the year for Christ's sake!

[Death In June]

I'd like to see a big name FA like Gilbert Arenas or Ron Artest, because I think we have the cap space to get them here and the roster flexibility, but somehow, I doubt that'll happen.

[K-State Spur]

I'd like to see a big name FA like Gilbert Arenas or Ron Artest, because I think we have the cap space to get them here and the roster flexibility, but somehow, I doubt that'll happen.

we don't have the cap space and neither is a good fit for this roster. (i don't believe that arenas is a good fit for any team that is looking to win a championship.)

[K-State Spur]

for everybody who basically wants to clear out the vets on the bench - who was the last team that won a title without a bunch of vets on the bench?

if we bring in Mahinmi/Splitter, add a combo guard + a swing man (one through the draft, one through FA), suddenly this team doesn't look so ancient heading into next year, but still maintains a lot of championship experience.

[Twisted_Dawg]

we don't have the cap space and neither is a good fit for this roster. (i don't believe that arenas is a good fit for any team that is looking to win a championship.)

What do you mean we do not have the cap space? Based on the contracts we have next year we will be at $53 million. We are currently at $70 million.
Go to: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm
Even adding in $3.5 million for Oberto, we still have lots of space. We could add an Artest type contract of $8-$9 million to start and still have room. Then there is the MLE and/or the LLE.

[Los Spurs]

'99? He's been playing since '97/'98. He was the rookie of the year for Christ's sake!

Oops, Sorry!

I meant 97'

[dirk4mvp]

'99? He's been playing since '97/'98. He was the rookie of the year for Christ's sake!


He's probably only been following the Spurs since you guys won yalls first title.

[xtremesteven33]

Lebron is free in 2010....just a thought

[K-State Spur]

you do understand that the salary cap this year was only $56 million. and we still have to fill out at least 4, and possibly 6 roster spots - not just 1.

and neither of the guys mentioned are going to sign for the MLE or the LLE.

we can continue to compete for a championship by just being smart this offseason, the big 3 are still a good enough core to get it done. add a young shooter, an athletic wing, and we already have the rights to 2 young high energy bigs.

[whottt]

If the old guys are willing to sign vet min deals they are not a cap liability at all..in fact the Spurs don't even pay all of their salary IIRC.

It's just a matter of picking and chosing which ones can still contribute to championship runs...


Horry can do what he did last game, to set the tone for our own team, as well as the opponents, until he can no longer walk...and I haven't see proof he's lost the shot yet...he hasn't taken any in a couple of years now.

At the vet min he ranks as one of the best values on our team and compared to players that filled similar roles our other championship teams...even if he only plays a handful of games per year.


Barry remains twice the player Kerr was as an all around player and he doesn't get doubled off of...so he can give us what Kerr was giving us for a couple more years IMO.

Kerr couldn't rebound or score around the basket, he couldn't drive, he didn't have knees(he never had knees in his entire NBA career)...but he was still a huge asset to pulling doulbles off of Duncan...Barry can do that. IF he's on for the vet min he's a steal. It's when he was the fourth highest paid player on the team that he was a liability.


The biggest problem with Barry and deciding factor on whether or not you bring him back for the min, as opposed to say Finley, is whether or not he's becoming injury prone.


I am on the fence about Finley...Finley is not a true shooter, he's a streak volume shooter...and his athleticism, is rapidly leaving him. I just have to think about him some more. FOr the record...I actually think this is one of his best runs in terms of timely shooting up until the last couple of games. And he does seem to be less injury prone than Barry.


Not sure about Kurt Thomas...his rebounding and smarts are an awesome asset...but if you can only keep one old big guy I propose you keep Horry, as he's more versatile...not to mention...he has a history of getting the ring while Thomas has a history of coming up short.


I don't think Oberto really qualifies as old yet...he's a lot like Duncan in that I don't see age taking huge chunks of his game away as rapidbly as it might with a guy like Finley.



I'm just of the mind that you keep Horry on roster for the vet min as long as he is willing...he's shown that he can now play the enforcer role pretty well. Even if you don't get his game and never did...then you still have to at least concede the mofo is lucky, and or has a nose for championship team...and we can always use a little luck, and him signing here is a sign he smells another title. Robert Horry = the good omen, at the very least.




I say we go into this offseason looking to bring Splitter and Ian in...look for the young 2 and a long 3...and then you keep the vets we got that are willing to play for the vet min and whose games won't be hindered by age. And then you have the classicly constructed championship Spurs team.


Don't overreact and blow up the team just because it's old...Championship teams are difficutl to assemble and the right mix of role players might be the most difficult aspect of assembling one.


We've had the stars to win championships for more or less 20 years now, possibly longer, possibly since the day this franchise entered the NBA...what's determined whether or not we win them is the supporting cast.

The guys that can hit the open shots the stars provide...VS the guys that can't. You never really know who they are until they play for your team or have an extensive track record with another team, until they've been in that situation multiple times...and that's the main reason that those types of guys are almost always old.

[xtremesteven33]

i would like the spurs to after players like

Nocioni
Artest
and a young pure shooter.....redick?

[ElNono]

I say we sign up Shaq...

[Kori Ellis]

Many analysts are under the impression that just The Big 3 are under contract next season. I have repeatedly heard them say stuff like, "Since Bowen's contract ends this year ..." "Since the Spurs only have 3 players under contract next seaon..." etc.

They might trade Bonner for not much. Horry and Fin will probably retire. Vaughn might be gone. Barry, I guess they'll check his health.

My guess is that win or lose, the Spurs will bring in one of Mahinmi/Splitter and get a swingman with the MLE. Get another scrub backup PG from the waiver wire/draft. Pick up a vet or two on the cheap. And that's it.

[tmtcsc]

Man, are we dissing on Bruce by saying Big 3. He's not the same as he used to be, but neither is Tim. He's still a solid, solid defender and can hit the 3.

[ElNono]

Man, are we dissing on Bruce by saying Big 3. He's not the same as he used to be, but neither is Tim. He's still a solid, solid defender and can hit the 3.

Maybe. But I sure as hell cringe every time I see him pulling up for a two or driving to the basket.

[tmtcsc]

Maybe. But I sure as hell cringe every time I see him pulling up for a two or driving to the basket.

:lol Yeah, you know the offense has broken down when Bruce tries to drive to the rim or shoots anything but a 3. He's made a couple of 2's from the right, top side of the key.

You have to admit,when he locks down guys like Peja and Nash, it makes everything that much simpler for us.

[whottt]

tmtcsc, what does your nic stand for?

Pretty sure the TMT stand for Tim Manu Tony..what's the csc stand for?

[SenorSpur]

Personally, I'd love to see the Spurs use their first pick in the draft on a swingman. There are a couple in this draft that, while they not crack the rotation immediately, could be of some use. Even with that, the Spurs can still go into FA and look at guys like James Jones or Mikael Pietrus - to name a few. A backup PG can be had more easily. Hell, they could even bring back Darius Washington for another look.

Bottom line, it's time for the Spurs FO to stop dragging this out. Win or lose tonight, it doesn't and shouldn't sway the fact that they gambled on this roster one year too long. This current roster has gotten as far as it can. It's long overdue time to infuse it with new, fresh, young blood. It's time to bid farewell to Horry, Finley, Barry, Stoudamire and Vaughn. I fully expect to see no less than 4-5 new faces on next year's roster next season.

[SenorSpur]

Shouldn't we actually have some replacements lined up or at least in mind before we actually get rid of the guys we have?


Young players can suck too.


Getting younger just for the sake of getting younger is stupid fucking idea that only comes from the mouths of journalists and inexperienced fans.




I don't mind having some old guys on the bench. We've had them every single time we've won a title, and they've played a role every single time...sometimes a really large role.

And these guys tend to make better bench players because they don't really care about PT, and they know how to keep themselves sharp. They also don't get overwhelmed or confused or their inexperience capitalized on.


A look at some of the aged guys on our championship teams:

99 - Elie(36), Perdue(33), Kersey(37)...for that matter Kerr was 33.

03 - Drob(37), Kerr(37), Ferry(36), Willis(40)...for that matter Smitty was 33.

05 - Tony Massenburg(37), Bruce Bowen(33), Robert Horry(34)...for that matter Glenn Bigg Dogg Robbinsonn was 33.

07 - Bowen and Horry still plus Barry and Finley are added to the list.

And IMO, Bruce was our true finals MVP last season...and he's probably the MVP of this series as well.


IIRC, Bruce was over 30 when he signed with the Spurs in the first place.


So you see....old players in and of themselves are not the problem. A great deal of the time these guys turn out to be the ones that pull asses out of the fire during a playoff run, while younger players falter.


The problem arises when the team is built around old players, and forced to start a lot of them or rely on them heavily.


The problem arises when the stars get old.



The problem arises, when you are paying old players a ton of money.






The biggest problems facing this team are not the ages of Barry, Horry and Finley or even Kurt Thomas...


And with the Udoka signing...the problem is not Bruce Bowen as much as it was last season.



The biggest problem this team has...without a doubt, is the age of Manu Ginobili and the toll his style of play exerts on his body.


And you know what? Manu's don't grow on trees. They are extremely difficult to aquire, via the draft FA or any other means available. In fact I can promise you, we won't be getting one this summer...no matter how many old mofos we cut.




So I'd just hold off on jettisoning this bench until you know what you are going to get to replace them.


I personally think you sign Horry for the vet min for as long as he wants to play, because he's still ten times the player Massenberg and Ferry were. ...because he does a great many things, and I have a feeling these contributions go beyond what you see on the court. It may just be his general attitude.


On top off all that...we still need a freaking long three, of any age.


And in addition...we have two very young bigs coming on board next season.



No...this team basically needs two things...


A young scoring guard..and a long SF. We do not need to jettison our two time championship bench blindly.

This team needs more than that. Having some vets on the bench in fine and I agree that a complete overhaul isn't the answer either. But 7 or 8 old guys on a team is way too many.

The results of this series against the Hornets alone should be enough to convince anyone why it's time to get younger. Check the declining team defensive statistics for the year and you'll see further proof of this.

Now when I say getting younger, I don't necessarily mean getting 22 year-old young at 4-5 spots. Hell, that's going extreme in the other direction and is a worse solution.

But a young swingman via the draft, a mid-career FA swingman, and a backup PG. Also if Bonner is on the block, that means acquiring yet another reserve PF who can rebound, defend and perhaps spread the floor.