Malik Rose's Number Worthy of Retiring?

[Ghost Writer]

This thought popped in my head the other day.

For as much as people here love to pick on Rose, we have to give him some credit.

He appears to not be forcing it thatmuch this year. He's making strides to getting back to doing what got him that arguably rich contract for a bench 'tweener.

So here it is...

Tell me why Rose's number should or should not be in consideration for retirement by the Spurs organization.


I'll get us rolling:

Yes -

Current longest tenured Spur
Two rings (only championships for the franchise)
Sixth man during the team's winningest era

No -

Not a star
Not good enough numbers
Hasn't been a Spur long enough to warrant it based on sheer longevity


What do you think?

?

[BronxCowboy]

As much as I like Malik Rose, you would have to retire a lot of numbers before you could seriously consider him, IMO.

[sungo99]

Uh. No. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

They can put it up there right next to #42.

[Sec24Row7]

If he retires a spur with more rings than 2 then maybe.

[T Park]

I like Malik, hes one of the best guys in the NBA, a guy I would hope my kids would grow up to be like.

But his number is not worth consideration.


Neither is Avery Johnson's.

[slayermin]

He would have to perform some playoff heroics before his time in SA is over.

[Ghost Writer]

Bold replies, especially from T Park.

I think Avery's number is borderline. Ifhe turns out to be a successful coach, I bet the Spurs retire his number (even though his coaching should have nothing to do with it).




I don't know guys... Roase has been around for a long-@ss time, still contributes and has 2 rings, going on 3.

[whottt]

I'm pretty sure Rose has set some kind of NBA record for consecutive years with the same team in a back up role.

He's played @500 games with the Spurs.

The only argument you can make for his jersey retirement is that he's been a big part of the team and the city.

Basically the AJ argument...If Malik stays here two more years he will surpass AJ in games played with the Spurs...he will also have been a much larger part of the community since AJ never actually lived in SA.

If AJ's jersey is going to be retired, then why not Malik?

Obviously we have no standards for our retired jerseys and since Malik has lasted about as long, and we've won more tiles with Malik...and Malik hasn't talked shit about the team or belittled it's players...

I say why not? If AJ's number is good enough to be retired then so is Malik's.

[timvp]

he will also have been a much larger part of the community since AJ never actually lived here.

AJ lived in San Antonio and still has a house here.

Get your facts straight.

As far as Rose getting his jersey retired. Probably not but if he plays out his whole contract, that would be more than a decade in San Antonio. That alone will get some attention.

[ChumpDumper]

Dunno, sure there have been the good years but do you really want to retire the number of a guy who's lost his spot in the rotation to every old fart we've signed the past three seasons?

[whottt]

AJ lived in San Antonio and still has a house here.

Get your facts straight..

Sugarland and Stafford Texas are in San Antonio? Everyone knows where he "lives".

I guess Maurice Cheeks lived in San Antonio too.

What ever gets AJ jersey retired, right?

[Kori Ellis]

Whottt -- he has another home here. He also has invested in a lot of community projects in San Antonio and is still doing so.

[whottt]

Dunno, sure there have been the good years but do you really want to retire the number of a guy who's lost his spot in the rotation to every old fart we've signed the past three seasons?

Why not? We are going to retire the jersey of a guy who couldn't even hold down the job as the third string PG longer than two years, for any team that didn't have David Robinson on it.

Malik has held on for 8 years with one team...I don't think AJ ever did that.

[Marcus Bryant]

No.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm the one who said there is no standard.

The only real standard is "folks seem to like the idea."

He has as good a chance as any.
We are going to retire the jersey of a guy who couldn't even hold down the job as the third string PG longer than two years, for any team that didn't have David Robinson on it. But he did here, there's the rub.

[whottt]

Whottt -- he has another home here. He also has invested in a lot of community projects in San Antonio and is still doing so.

Brent Barry has lived in SA less than year and has already been named some kind of charity dude for something or other of higher profile than anything I can remember AJ being associated with...

Look, it doesn't matter what I think...I can see the writing on the wall...AJ's jersey is going to be retired if Pop has any say in it...I don't agree with it but I don't have any control over it.

I'm just saying...Malik is more of a San Antonian than AJ ever was. It's the truth. AJ lived in Sugarland...that's how Elie ended up coming to this team...

So anyway, if AJ is going to get his jersey retired and Malik makes it that long I don't see how anyone can argue against his jersey being retired as well for much of the same reasons...

Both are similar types of players in that their claim to fame was their scrappiness...but I never saw AJ getting green around the gills when he wasn't playing for SA...

Malik gets despondent every time the team talks about trading him...he's much more of a San Antonian than AJ.

[Marcus Bryant]

AJ got Elie to SA and Spurs win 1st championship.

Just shut the fuck up already and let your pit bull lick whipped cream off your nutsack.

[Kori Ellis]

Malik gets despondent every time the team talks about trading him...he's much more of a San Antonian than AJ.

I agree with this part. I think it would be a nightmare for Malik (and his entire family that he uprooted and brought here from Philly) if he ever got traded.

But as ChumpDumper said, there's not a standard for retiring jerseys. If the organization thinks you are a good guy and you spent enough time here, it looks like you have a shot.

[whottt]

I'm the one who said there is no standard.

The only real standard is "folks seem to like the idea."

Folks seemed to like the idea of Nazism too...doesn't make it a good idea.

Some folks like the idea of flying planes into the World Trade Center...


But he did here, there's the rub.

Well fine then but don't try and make a point against us retiring the jersey of a guy who couldn't hold his spot down to other players, when AJ was the same thing...even here sometimes...

[whottt]

But as ChumpDumper said, there's not a standard for retiring jerseys. If the organization thinks you are a good guy and you spent enough time here, it looks like you have a shot.


That's my whole point...I don't see how anyone can really argue against Malik once AJ's jersey gets retired. So we might as well retire his too. It'd also make AJ's jersey being retired easier for me to handle.

[Marcus Bryant]

People who own pit bulls are likely to live in trailer parks and wear flannel but who's counting?

[ChumpDumper]

Folks seemed to like the idea of Nazism too...doesn't make it a good idea.

Some folks like the idea of flying planes into the World Trade Center...Leave it to whottt to equate the retiring the number of a guy who plays basketball to supporting Hitler and Bin Laden.
Well fine then but don't try and making a point about us retiring the jersey of a guy who couldn't hold his spot down to other players, when AJ was the same thing...even here sometimes.Three years in a row? I most certainly will and you'll take it, brownshirt.

The point is you make it up as you go along. Big deal.

[whottt]

People who own pit bulls are likely to live in trailer parks and wear flannel but who's counting?

I rescued a starved, beaten and injured Pit Bull , most likely from someone who does live in a trailer park and wears a flannel, I didn't go out seeking one...don't confuse it. Asshole.

[whottt]

Leave it to whottt to equate the retiring the number of a guy who plays basketball to supporting Hitler and Bin Laden.

Where did I say those things are equal? At least the Germans regret Hitler.



Three years in a row? I most certainly will and you'll take it, brownshirt.

Speakad'english!


The point is you make it up as you go along. Big deal.

Then STFU about Malik getting beat out by guys.

[ChumpDumper]

Speakad'english!RIF.
Then STFU about Malik getting beat out by guys.Play him or trade him. Would you retire his number then? Oops, that would be a standard--STFU!

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I think Malik is still the fourth best player on this team, whether he makes Pop's rotation or not

[whottt]

Grunt

[ChumpDumper]

Heil!

[Spurminator]

I think Malik is still the fourth best player on this team, whether he makes Pop's rotation or not

I think Malik may very well be the fourth best power forward on this team.

[SequSpur]

This is a stupid topic.

Malik or Avery is not worthy of retirement.

[whottt]

Biden is my hero

[sungo99]

He's played @500 games with the Spurs.

The only argument you can make for his jersey retirement is that he's been a big part of the team and the city.

Basically the AJ argument...If Malik stays here two more years he will surpass AJ in games played with the Spurs...he will also have been a much larger part of the community since AJ never actually lived in SA.



That's a really good point and something I didn't consider. The Spurs are a unique franchise in that they are the only sport in town. The relationship between the city and the team is stronger than most. The Spurs could take a different approach in retiring numbers. Most teams are pretty conservative, but there's no reason for the Spurs to follow that path. Especially with players that made it a point to live in SA and participate in the community.

However, retiring his number would seem a little disingenuous considering they tried to trade him all last year (Sean Elliott, I know). Another thing to consider is that he'll be only 34 when his current contract runs out. He may finish his career with another team.

[whottt]

Another thing to consider is that he'll be only 34 when his current contract runs out. He may finish his career with another team.

And only Robinson will have spent more years with the team when that contract runs out...he'll be tied with Duncan for the second most.

[Rummpd]

No as much as I have liked the guy over the years - game is in decline when it should be still at a higher level etc.

MadDoc

[Sense]

Malik does not deserve a chance in hell to have his numbered retired.

Nothing he has done has affected this team in winning ways, he helps off the bench every time and that's all he is, a veteran Spurs bench'er.

Fuck Malik, he knows he'll NEVER have his numbered retired, unless he realizes how stupid San Antonians are loving him for being "friendly" and doing things for the community. Until then, he will claim one.

HEh.


How'd I miss this Thread.

[Useruser666]

They can hang Malik's jersey in the ladies restroom outside section 226. :lol

[Jimcs50]

Shaq would deem Rose's number worthy of retirement.

[Rick Von Braun]

No

[tekdragon]

No.

Hell no.

Get a grip.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

This is an attempt at sarcasm right?

Maybe we should retire Anthony Carter while we're at it......?

[mrose31]

Rose has been my favorite player for the last 4 years and no he does not deserve to have his jersey retired unless he makes a big contribution to the team for the next several years. So far nothing to merit that. Neither does avery he was good pt guard but he frustrated me cause he could not make a freakin layup. Thank you Parker for being able to finish at basket.

[mrose31]

By the way has parker dunked the ball this year I kind of think he did once this year. I wonder does Duncan still give him 100 bucks for dunking since he now has a 66 mil contract. I doubt it.

[SpursWoman]

Nope.

[GoSpurs21]

no to malik rose
no to avery johnson

I thought Tim was here 1 more year than Rose?

[whottt]

No, Tim and Malik first played with the Spurs in 97.

Malik has been in the league 1 year longer than Duncan though...his first year was in Charlotte.

[whottt]

I've got no problem with people who don't want to see Malik get retired...but just don't vote yes to AJ and then talk about standards when voting against Malik...and once AJ's jersey is retired(and it will be) the standards argument goes out the window...that's one of the reasons I am against AJ's jersey being retired...but once it is...I am going to lobby for some of my favorites that had a similar level of contribution.

Stephen Jackson also hit a shot to win us a title...

[tekdragon]

AJ was a starter and a leader. He was THE leader. That's the difference.

I'm not saying I would vote to retire his number (I wouldn't), but I can see the case for it, and won't be upset when it happens.

Retiring Malik's number is a joke.

[whottt]

AJ was a starter and a leader. He was THE leader. That's the difference.

I'm not saying I would vote to retire his number (I wouldn't), but I can see the case for it, and won't be upset when it happens.

Retiring Malik's number is a joke.

The Leader?

AJ was a replaceable part...an easily replaceable part, so easy that he was replaced the very next year after leaving, with a superior player who won a title at the age of 20.

What ever AJ mythically contributed to the 98-99 champs wasn't as signifigant as Mario Elie calling out the entire team as soft when we were 6-8, and Duncan and Robinson dominating the interior on O and D.

We won a title with a 20 year old taking AJ's spot, we won it 2 years after AJ took his leadership to lead Denver to the lottery...who was the leader on that 03 team? Retire their jersey as well.

In 2 years Parker was able to do with Duncan and an aged Drob what AJ was only able to do once in 4 years with both of them more or less in their primes.

Duncan and Robinson were the engine of that team and Maro Elie was the guy that got into other guys faces and hit the tough perimeter shots...the same recipe was used in 03 with SJax hitting the tough shots.

Be careful about throwing around credit for titles...since Malik has been here we've won 2 titles in 8 years and AJ was here for 9 and we won 1.

AJ was a starter here moreso because of our bleak guard situation than any earning of the spot.

When we had DA he easily jumped ahead of AJ...and Porter, who was even more ancient, easily beat him out for PT as well.

[tekdragon]

Regardless of how much you hate him, regardless of how talented he was (or was not), regardless of how much playing time he got or how he compared to other players past or present, regardless of how pathetic our guard situation was from the time Ice left to the time Tony arrived, regardless of who else made contributions to the 99 title:

AJ was unquestionably the leader of the Spurs for his entire tenure with the team. Denying that is ridiculous. Ask David Robinson who the leader was. Ask Sean Elliott who the leader was. Ask Pop who the leader was. Ask freaking Mario Elie who the leader was. They will all give the same answer.

Oh, I forgot, you were actually in the lockerroom, so you know better than any of those people, don't you? They'll all claim the same thing, but they must all be wrong.

By the way, Duncan and Robinson were leaders on the 03 team, and yes, their number will both be retired.

Listen, I don't think AJ should have his number retired, either. But the hate is out of hand. Did he run over your dog or something?

Overrated? Check.
Not so talented? Check.
No jumper? Check.
Starting due primarily to lack of talent in the backcourt? Check.

Team leader? No Question.

No. 6 to be retired? Check.
Slept with Whottt's sister? Apparantly, check.

[whottt]

AJ was unquestionably the leader of the Spurs for his entire tenure with the team. Denying that is ridiculous. Ask David Robinson who the leader was. Ask Sean Elliott who the leader was. Ask Pop who the leader was. Ask freaking Mario Elie who the leader was. They will all give the same answer.

I'll do better than that...I'll ask Avery Johnson:

When Elie's on his game, he's super Mario
SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- For all the talk about Tim Duncan and David Robinson, Mario Elie probably has done as much as any player to transform the San Antonio Spurs from a good team to a title contender.
He's a tough defender, he's played on two NBA championship teams in Houston and, most of all, he's brought an attitude to a team that needed one.
Elie was a major factor in holding down Isaiah Rider in San Antonio's 80-76 victory over Portland Saturday in Game 1 of the Western Conference final, and he had a crucial drive to the basket, as well as two important, free throws down the stretch.
With the experience that comes from nine previous playoff appearances, he keeps his team from ever becoming complacent.
Game 2 tonight, he tells his teammates, "will be the toughest game of the series."
"No. 1, he stays angry," Avery Johnson said. "He's one of the angriest guys on the court. On the court, he has an edge, he's bitter about a lot of things. He stays mad all the time and we kind of needed that little edge."
Coach Gregg Popovich used the same word when describing Elie's importance.
"He adds an edge to your team. He really helps you create a personality, a toughness," Popovich said. "He's somebody who doesn't accept losing. If we lose a game, he doesn't want to talk any of us. We're all bums, and that's kind of good."
Johnson said it's no coincidence San Antonio got rolling after a 6-8 start when Elie's role grew.
"We finally got Mario into the rotation," Johnson said, "and we took off from there."
Elie saw a blandness on his new team after he signed with a Spurs as a free agent before this season began.
"I thought at first when I got here that we were sort of a corporate team, just punch in and have no fun," he said.
For Elie, who had to claw his way up to the NBA by playing in Europe and the Continental Basketball Association, there was no excuse for just going through the motions.
"We had a lot of laid-back guys, and that's just not my personality," he said. "I just try to bring some fun, excitement, some chest bumping, some high-fiving, just having fun and enjoying the game. It seems like now our guys are showing a lot of emotion."
They will need it tonight against a Blazer team that remains confident even though it has lost four of five from San Antonio this season, a confidence that comes from playing the Spurs close in each loss.
Rider, who came to practice at the Alamodome on Sunday wearing a straw cowboy hat that looked as if somebody bit a hole in the brim, noted that Portland lost by just four points Saturday despite a sub-par performance by almost everyone on the team except Rasheed Wallace.
"What's so funny is we're still confident we can beat this team," Rider said. "We haven't played well at all against this team, not for 48 minutes. We feel if we play good, we'll be fine."
Wallace, whose size, long arms, jumping ability and quickness create a serious matchup problem for San Antonio, scored a career playoff-high 28 points in Game 1, but no other Blazer managed more than Rider's 13.
Portland also committed 16 turnovers, twice as many as the Spurs.
"For us to have a chance to win, we need other guys to step up and have good games also," Blazers coach Mike Dunleavy said. "That's the good thing about our team. They could be over there worrying about Rasheed all day long and it's not Rasheed tomorrow, its somebody else. That's been the strength of our team all year long. You don't necessarily know who to prepare for, who it can be on any night."
The Spurs didn't think much of their game Saturday, either. They believe they relied too much on Duncan and Robinson, who scored 21 points apiece.
"Basically, we've got to shoot the ball better," Robinson said. "We shoot 40 per cent it's going to be tough for us to put together a good game."
Still, San Antonio was good enough for its sixth straight win in the playoffs. Three more, and the Spurs have their first trip to the NBA finals.
"We had five days off. We weren't really in-synch the way we should have been," Johnson said. "But whether you win ugly, whether you win pretty, it really doesn't matter during this time of the year, as long as you win."


Amazingly there was a huge controversy that season at precisely the moment we were 6-8 when Mario Elie called out the team for being soft...it was a huge ordeal and it altered the course of this franchise permanently.

6-8.


Oh, I forgot, you were actually in the lockerroom, so you know better than any of those people, don't you? They'll all claim the same thing, but they must all be wrong.

If that's what they all claim then they are all wrong...

Because I got to watch it first hand...AJ didn't lead us to jack shit prior to Mario Elie coming here and Mario Elie's first season with the team we won a title. Ask Hakeem whoi he'd rather have...

He didn't even make the fucking playoffs when he was given the benefit of AJ's leadership.

While AJ's biggest achievement on a team without Mario Elie is getting buttfucked by Sam Cassell and Derek Fisher.







Listen, I don't think AJ should have his number retired, either. But the hate is out of hand. Did he run over your dog or something?

No, he pissed on my franchise after leaving it.

He wasn't a good enough of a player for us to get away with that. Fuck AJ.




Overrated? Check.
Not so talented? Check.
No jumper? Check.
Starting due primarily to lack of talent in the backcourt? Check.

Team leader? No Question.

In other words you have no standard for which AJ raises the bar, so a mythical standard is created to justify his jersey retirment...

I can do the same thing for Malik...he's been a huge part of the heart and soul of this team since he got here.

Prove me wrong.

Cite his leadership all you want...but you still have to explain our title in 03.

[S4Spur21]

Nah, I dont think it will. I like him and all, but i dont think its going to happen.

[SLOVENIAN 8]

No!

[Ghost Writer]

I think Rose's longevity and 2 title rings makes a strong case for his number to be retired, but I'm not sure his play warrants it.

[Extra Stout]

Mike Mitchell. Larry Kenon. Artis Gilmore. Alvin Robertson. Terry Cummings.

All those guys were better players for the Spurs than Malik Rose. Malik is a backup, sometimes the backup to the backup. It would be like the Rockets trying to retire Matt Bullard's number.

It's a slippery slope. First you retire AJ's number, then Malik's, and before you know it you're conquering most of Europe and killing six million Jews.

[Sense]

By the way has parker dunked the ball this year I kind of think he did once this year. I wonder does Duncan still give him 100 bucks for dunking since he now has a 66 mil contract. I doubt it.




I saw a close Dunk once...


He touched the rim, he could've easily dunked it, but decided not to at the last minute.

I didn't think he was able to before that bucket.

[Ghost Writer]

I'm not saying Malik Rose is the type of qualityplayer who deserves to have his # retired.

But he's got 2 rings and longevity going for him.