Duncan's Greatness Definitely Wasn't Handed To Him

[duncan228]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10832094/rss

Duncan's greatness definitely wasn't handed to him
By Gregg Doyel

SAN ANTONIO -- I came not to praise Tim Duncan, but to bury him.

Hey, just being honest.

I came to San Antonio to write about Game 6 of these Western Conference semifinals, but I had ulterior motives. A second story was planned, and that story -- this story -- was going to be written after I had gawked at the gawky Duncan, seen his erosion for myself and pronounced him on the down side of his career.

A funny thing happened on the way to that opinion.

It's wrong.

And even if it's not wrong, even if Duncan is on the down side of his career, he'll get nothing from me but a salute. After watching Game 6 through the Duncan prism, and then thinking long and hard and studying the numbers and the history, I've come to this conclusion about one of the best power forwards in NBA history:

Duncan has done it the hard way.

Since coming into the league a decade ago, Duncan has averaged more than 21 points and shot better than 50 percent and led his team to four NBA titles, with a fifth ring in reach if the Spurs get past New Orleans on Monday to advance to the conference finals.

And he has done all of that without the kind of help that has buoyed the best big men of his era, the likes of Karl Malone and Shaquille O'Neal and Dirk Nowitzki. Duncan, 32, is one good season, maybe a little bit more, from reaching 20,000 career points. If he plays three or four years after that, he'll be ranked among the top 10 scorers in NBA history.

And he has done it without John Stockton. He had no Kobe Bryant or Dwyane Wade or even Penny Hardaway. He had no Steve Nash.

Duncan has had no point guard, is what I'm saying.

Tony Parker "plays" point guard, but he doesn't play point guard. Parker is a wonderful player, but the only time he resembles a point guard is when he dribbles the ball across the midcourt stripe. The rest of the time, Parker is a 6-foot slashing shooting guard. He's a scorer. He creates, but only for himself. Parker has been San Antonio's "point guard" from his arrival in 2001, but despite the presence of Duncan's low-post brilliance, he has averaged just 5.5 assists for his career.

Five or six assists? That's a decent half for Stockton or Nash.

Hey, I didn't come here to bury Tony Parker, either. He's a nifty little player, but he doesn't make Duncan better in the classical sense that great point guards make those around them better. Defenders sag into the post because they don't respect Parker's shooting range, and when he drives the lane, he drives to shoot. Over the past four years, Parker has taken as many shots as Duncan. Think about that.

If you insist on watching Game 7 of the Spurs-Hornets series instead of your favorite Monday night CBS show, watch both point guards attack the lane. Parker draws defenders and spins and somehow finds a way to get the ball onto the rim. It's impressive and it's effective, but it doesn't do wonders for Duncan. Now then, watch New Orleans' Chris Paul. He draws defenders and sometimes shoots anyway. But three or four times a game he lobs it to the rim, where Hornets center Tyson Chandler finishes with ease.

Tim Duncan doesn't ever finish with ease. Part of that is on Duncan. He doesn't play as far above the basket as Chandler, although he could finish those lobs easily if given the chance.

But this has been Duncan's lot in life. Pick a San Antonio team since Duncan got into the league. Show me the point guard who made his life simple. Avery Johnson? Antonio Daniels? Come on now. Avery Johnson was a nice player, but he wasn't stuffing six or seven easy buckets onto Duncan's daily stat sheet like Stockton was doing for Malone, or like Nash did for Dirk in Dallas and now for Amare Stoudemire in Phoenix.

Duncan has scored his points the hardest way possible -- he has earned them. Game 6 was astounding and surely not atypical. Teammates threw him the ball, sure, but the only one who set him up was center Fabricio Oberto. Four times in the opening quarter Oberto bounced Duncan a pass from the high block to the low block, and those were his easiest baskets of the game. Otherwise he was carving out position, catching Boring Basketball 101 entry passes, and doing his thing: tossing 15-footers off the glass or drop-stepping to the rim or bulling his way to the foul line.

All great big men do those things, true.

But nobody has been forced to do it as often as Duncan. He makes hard look easy.

[SPARKY]

Yeah, TP can't shoot.

Hey, that Manu guy is pretty good too.

[duncan228]

Yeah, TP can't shoot.

He doesn't say Parker can't shoot, in fact he says the opposite.


The rest of the time, Parker is a 6-foot slashing shooting guard. He's a scorer.

[NoMoneyDown]

I love how people keep "wanting" to write Duncan and the Spurs off ... All we've heard these last two series is 'How Duncan is on the downslope of his career' and 'The Spurs are too OLD', etc. Eventually there WILL come a time when Duncan's career will begin to tail-off (although, I think he'll leave the NBA long before it becomes too bad - unlike Shaq, et al).

[z0sa]

Right on. Tim has never, ever EVER gotten anywhere near the credit he deserves. To even mention names like Garnett or Malone in the same sentence as his is absurd. His four championships already has him forever remembered in the annals of basketball history. Too bad few will remember him for how good he really is outside of us fans.

[duncan228]

(although, I think he'll leave the NBA long before it becomes too bad - unlike Shaq, et al).

I agree. Duncan will go out before he can't perform at a high level.

[SPARKY]

He doesn't say Parker can't shoot, in fact he says the opposite.


Hey, I didn't come here to bury Tony Parker, either. He's a nifty little player, but he doesn't make Duncan better in the classical sense that great point guards make those around them better. Defenders sag into the post because they don't respect Parker's shooting range, and when he drives the lane, he drives to shoot. Over the past four years, Parker has taken as many shots as Duncan. Think about that.

[dbreiden83080]

I agree. Duncan will go out before he can't perform at a high level.

I think so too. Duncan is not going to be like Shaq and bounce around from team to team looking for one last ring. When he is not even close to what he once was, he'll hang it up.

[polandprzem]

Good point

Imagine Tim playing alongside Magic, Stockton, Oscar, Frazier or Kidd :wow

And Tim was always better when he was one of the options not the main option in the X & O book.

[SpursIndonesia]

Man, after what Tony has proven last year and this on going post season, yet diss like this is still going his way. If this, if that, screw those, all i know it's not an easy feat for a 19 yrs old guy drafted @26 slot to play at point guard spot in a perennially championship contending team, growing up each fucking years, to ultimately become a final MVP at a tender age of 25. Seriously.

Yeah, Jason Kidd's a true PASSING point guard, he makes his teammates better, but he's going fishing nowadays, even when he had a shot with a MVP and some ex All Stars running beside him this yr post season. Great example isn't it ? And for all of Duncan greatness -Bless him- if not for Tony's big ball$ 19 feet jumper, where would he be right now ? Catching some shrimp in Missisipi delta ?

[ducks]

Good point

Imagine Tim playing alongside Magic, Stockton, Oscar, Frazier or Kidd :wow

And Tim was always better when he was one of the options not the main option in the X & O book.

duncan does not do allley passes
tp could throw them if they ran them but they do not

[duncan228]

duncan does not do allley passes

Duncan can't jump. :lol

There's a clip from the All Star game they were both in where Parker threw a pass for Duncan to alley oop. Duncan said to him "You know I can't jump."

[duncan228]

There are exceptions to every rule though...Parker to Duncan for the alley oop in the Jazz series last year.

1ya8NNFSPVY

[Referee]

I had heart palpitations last night from Tim's shot selections and misses and offensive fouls...

[Summers]

Man, after what Tony has proven last year and this on going post season, yet diss like this is still going his way. If this, if that, screw those, all i know it's not an easy feat for a 19 yrs old guy drafted @26 slot to play at point guard spot in a perennially championship contending team, growing up each fucking years, to ultimately become a final MVP at a tender age of 25. Seriously.

Yeah, Jason Kidd's a true PASSING point guard, he makes his teammates better, but he's going fishing nowadays, even when he had a shot with a MVP and some ex All Stars running beside him this yr post season. Great example isn't it ? And for all of Duncan greatness -Bless him- if not for Tony's big ball$ 19 feet jumper, where would he be right now ? Catching some shrimp in Missisipi delta ?

Did you just call Tim Duncan Forrest Gump?

But seriously, just because Pop molded Tony into the fantastic guard that we all know and love, doesn't mean you get to pretend this team and everything about this team and everything this team has earned over the past 10 years doesn't begin and end with Tim Duncan.

[kace]

no, tp don't make tim better. neither manu. but they both make this team way better and without them, there is no win. i don't think we would be talking about Tim the same way without all these wins and titles, and TP and manu helped him to win them. it's a team thing, and even if tim is the franchise player, i really don't see how he could complain about not being surrounded with good players having tp and manu. he has two all stars with him. not so bad.

[polandprzem]

duncan does not do allley passes
tp could throw them if they ran them but they do not

TP is not a great passer

[ShoogarBear]

It's fair to say that Tim does more to help Tony's offensive game than Tony does for Tim, which is the point of the article. Not that Tony does nothing: his aggressiveness at the very least takes pressure off of the rest of the team for large chunks of the game. Part of that also is the design of the offense: when Tony is penetrating, everyone else's role is to either set screens for him or wait at the 3-point line. You rarely see cutters coming in behind him like you do with Nash and Paul.

[milkyway21]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10832094/rss

Duncan's greatness definitely wasn't handed to him
By Gregg Doyel

SAN ANTONIO -- I came not to praise Tim Duncan, but to bury him.

Hey, just being honest.

I came to San Antonio to write about Game 6 of these Western Conference semifinals, but I had ulterior motives. A second story was planned, and that story -- this story -- was going to be written after I had gawked at the gawky Duncan, seen his erosion for myself and pronounced him on the down side of his career.

A funny thing happened on the way to that opinion.

It's wrong.

And even if it's not wrong, even if Duncan is on the down side of his career, he'll get nothing from me but a salute. After watching Game 6 through the Duncan prism, and then thinking long and hard and studying the numbers and the history, I've come to this conclusion about one of the best power forwards in NBA history:

Duncan has done it the hard way.

Since coming into the league a decade ago, Duncan has averaged more than 21 points and shot better than 50 percent and led his team to four NBA titles, with a fifth ring in reach if the Spurs get past New Orleans on Monday to advance to the conference finals.

And he has done all of that without the kind of help that has buoyed the best big men of his era, the likes of Karl Malone and Shaquille O'Neal and Dirk Nowitzki. Duncan, 32, is one good season, maybe a little bit more, from reaching 20,000 career points. If he plays three or four years after that, he'll be ranked among the top 10 scorers in NBA history.

And he has done it without John Stockton. He had no Kobe Bryant or Dwyane Wade or even Penny Hardaway. He had no Steve Nash.

Duncan has had no point guard, is what I'm saying.

Tony Parker "plays" point guard, but he doesn't play point guard. Parker is a wonderful player, but the only time he resembles a point guard is when he dribbles the ball across the midcourt stripe. The rest of the time, Parker is a 6-foot slashing shooting guard. He's a scorer. He creates, but only for himself. Parker has been San Antonio's "point guard" from his arrival in 2001, but despite the presence of Duncan's low-post brilliance, he has averaged just 5.5 assists for his career.

Five or six assists? That's a decent half for Stockton or Nash.

Hey, I didn't come here to bury Tony Parker, either. He's a nifty little player, but he doesn't make Duncan better in the classical sense that great point guards make those around them better. Defenders sag into the post because they don't respect Parker's shooting range, and when he drives the lane, he drives to shoot. Over the past four years, Parker has taken as many shots as Duncan. Think about that.

If you insist on watching Game 7 of the Spurs-Hornets series instead of your favorite Monday night CBS show, watch both point guards attack the lane. Parker draws defenders and spins and somehow finds a way to get the ball onto the rim. It's impressive and it's effective, but it doesn't do wonders for Duncan. Now then, watch New Orleans' Chris Paul. He draws defenders and sometimes shoots anyway. But three or four times a game he lobs it to the rim, where Hornets center Tyson Chandler finishes with ease.

Tim Duncan doesn't ever finish with ease. Part of that is on Duncan. He doesn't play as far above the basket as Chandler, although he could finish those lobs easily if given the chance.

But this has been Duncan's lot in life. Pick a San Antonio team since Duncan got into the league. Show me the point guard who made his life simple. Avery Johnson? Antonio Daniels? Come on now. Avery Johnson was a nice player, but he wasn't stuffing six or seven easy buckets onto Duncan's daily stat sheet like Stockton was doing for Malone, or like Nash did for Dirk in Dallas and now for Amare Stoudemire in Phoenix.

Duncan has scored his points the hardest way possible -- he has earned them. Game 6 was astounding and surely not atypical. Teammates threw him the ball, sure, but the only one who set him up was center Fabricio Oberto. Four times in the opening quarter Oberto bounced Duncan a pass from the high block to the low block, and those were his easiest baskets of the game. Otherwise he was carving out position, catching Boring Basketball 101 entry passes, and doing his thing: tossing 15-footers off the glass or drop-stepping to the rim or bulling his way to the foul line.

All great big men do those things, true.

But nobody has been forced to do it as often as Duncan. He makes hard look easy.

nice article.

[bdictjames]

Nice article indeed, Duncan never had some easy shots, and he justifies his lack of athleticism with an effective game.

[milkyway21]

Over the past four years, Parker has taken as many shots as Duncan. Think about that.

well, this may be true but it is also because of Duncan's being doubled most of the time, Pops has to let others contribute. Tim's unselfishness made this team a success. Let it be Manu or Tony letting it fly it doesn't matter to him. They're playing for the same goal:bling, anyway.

[Brutalis]

Reminds me once again of Robinson saying we will all realize we took him for granted once he is gone.

[Whisky Dog]

Parker's emergence as a scorer, defender, and now clutch time scorer has made Duncan not HAVE to be the main focal point all of the time. With Manu adding additional firepower this is the best scenario for Duncan. The better Parker plays the better things will be for Duncan the rest of his career, and likely the longer he will be able to play effectively.

[Kermit]

TP is not a great passer

Bullshit.

[pawe]

Fabs feeds the ball better to TD than parker does.

[mystargtr34]

Parker is the best finishing Point Guard in the entire league... but its fair to say he is an average passer for the PG position.

[Allanon]

And he has done it without John Stockton. He had no Kobe Bryant or Dwyane Wade or even Penny Hardaway. He had no Steve Nash.

Duncan has had no point guard, is what I'm saying.

It's a great article on Duncan but inaccurate in terms of point guard. Duncan's always had better point guards than Shaq. The last really good Point Guard the Lakers had was Magic. Maybe Van Exel but he got traded away too quickly.

[ShoogarBear]

Reminds me once again of Robinson saying we will all realize we took him for granted once he is gone.

I presume Robinson said this about Duncan, not about himself.

[duncan228]

I presume Robinson said this about Duncan, not about himself.

:lol Yes, he was talking about Duncan.

[mystargtr34]

It's a great article on Duncan but inaccurate in terms of point guard. Duncan's always had better point guards than Shaq. The last really good Point Guard the Lakers had was Magic. Maybe Van Exel but he got traded away too quickly.

:lol you cant be this dumb.. or is just ignorance ? Being that you started watchin basketball in the last couple years i would assume you realise that now days its not just Point Guards who can create. Penny Kobe and D-Wade were better than nearly all point guards at their respective times at creating openings for everyone, Shaq included when he played with them.

God.

[Deuces88]

This article points out the obvious. Parker is a shoot-first PG. The real "PG" is actually Duncan. The guy is just a friggin great passer. If you sit and watch a Spurs game and watch Duncan's passing carefully, you'll see how efficient he is. His passes are rarely picked off.

I guess he developed these good passing skills because he is double-teamed a lot throughout his season and he has taught himself to find the open man very quickly. But, you cannot deny he has great court vision. The only reason he doesn't get a lot of assists on the stat sheet is because even when he gets people like Parker or Ginobili open, they either miss the jumper or drive to the basket. It must be nice for a slasher to have an open lane frequently when the big man draws the defense so well.

[mrspurs]

poor ole timmy..if he had just half the speed and bounce some of the other nba stars have....timmy would be unstoppable....its hard work that got timmy here....someone said shaq shot over 2000 freethrows in playoffs...but cos he didnt care to work on it...he still sucks...work work work.......go spurs go

[timvp]

Eh, I don't like that article. Once upon a time the article was true but no longer. Ginobili and Parker do a lot of heavy lifting for this team. The Hornets series pretty much proved that Duncan can play like complete crap and the Spurs still can ride Ginobili and Parker to wins.

Duncan is a great, great player and probably a top five player of all time and a top three player today ......... but he doesn't do it by himself.

[diego]

parker does set up tim. as much as a nash or stockton set up their respective bigmen? no, but he does it. so does manu. and oberto too.

the thing is that timmy is seldom covered in a way that allows you to just run him off a screen for an easy layup, and hes not athletic enough to be getting "easy" oops all game.

and i think duncan's career will be extended by that. tim always has those "quiet" double-double games where the other team never leaves him alone, and he doesnt do anything "spectacular", but he still manages to control the game without dominating the ball. he will continue to be the ultimate decoy for tony parker, as teams will always prefer to test parkers jumpshot or finley's defense (etc., not picking on those guys!) than to flat out challenge tim duncan.

[SpursIndonesia]

That's exactly what i'm trying to tell, LJ. If the context is pre 2007 Spurs, then it's quite true bagging in Tony for his lack of playoff contribution, but this year Tony ?

Tony doesn't do playmaking like Nash or CP, but that's already described frequently as a design by Pop himself. And we do know that the current collection of Spurs players, they're not exactly 40" leaper athletes, so we can't really compare situation beetween PG from other teams, whice were given free reign, the matching teammates & system to play with.

Rather than the Duncans, the Spurs have developed into a true big three powered team as of now, and the NO series prove that notion exactly. TD's still the franchise player & the Spurs foundation, but Tony and Manu have clearly added more stakes into this team equation, no doubt.