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View Full Version : Moral/ethical dilimena



sainformer
07-21-2003, 04:14 PM
I've got the info on Kobe's accuser (photos, #s, etc)....how should I go about the story on this? Should I use the photo or what?

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 04:15 PM
Your a little late.

scott
07-21-2003, 04:17 PM
Its in both the NBA Forum and the Club, Greg. I personally find the posting of them to be repulsive, but obviously others do not. To each their own.

sainformer
07-21-2003, 04:25 PM
Guys i'm not talking about on a site...I'm talking about in a printed edition....

scott
07-21-2003, 04:27 PM
I'd find that even more repulsive. But that is just me.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 04:27 PM
DON'T PRINT HER PICTURE IN A PAPER. If you are for real (which I doubt), and you do, you are sleaze. It's that simple. Have some class.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 04:31 PM
And what the **** is a "dilimena"??? :lol

I highly doubt you work for a newspaper, dude.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 04:38 PM
Read a discussion on this subject at:

pub237.ezboard.com/ffulls...1170.topic (http://pub237.ezboard.com/ffullsportpressfrm11.showMessage?topicID=1170.topi c)

I personally see no ethical dilemma. This is a news story and both the accuser and alleged perp are part of the story. For the reasons stated in the above thread, I think keeping her identity a secret causes more harm than good. Since she hasn't personally asked for annonimity I don't even know that she prefers it. Lacey Peterson's pics are on TV, why not KF's? Its much easier to sympathize with a victim when you can put a human face on her. I for one am getting tired on referring to her as the victim for that gets to be a bit dehumanizing after a while. I guess I could use her name, but that's an editorial decision left best to Kori.

Its sad Kobe can go cry on TV with his wife and ask for sympathy, but the poor victim is locked up in her house without a face and without a name. :(

BTW, isn't this thread supposed to be in the NBA Forum?

Good luck with your decision.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 04:39 PM
He is legit.

picnroll
07-21-2003, 04:41 PM
Unless you work for The National Inquirer or hope to get a job with The National Inquirer I think I'd take a pass.

sainformer
07-21-2003, 04:42 PM
First of all I OWN A FREAKING WEEKLY NEWSPAPER right here in SAn Antonio.

Secondly every bit of the information is legal and it's all public record...right down to the affidavit from Eagle County and the tax property info from that county's website.

Get an understanding, the stuff is already out. CNN is going to run with it. MSNBC has already mentioned the parents' names. Get the picture? Her anonymity is history.

I'm not running her name or personal stuff but I was debating on the photo and blurring the face out so that the spread would be half way decent.

And as for the name calling, totally out of line. Didn't ask for it and definitely didn't expect it coming from 'class' folks.

KoriEllis
07-21-2003, 04:45 PM
Greg, if you don't include her personal info (addy, phone, etc) then including her blurred face wouldn't be immoral or unethical in my opinion.

Her info is going to be everywhere, but there's no point in printing her name, address or phone.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 04:48 PM
First of all I OWN A FREAKING WEEKLY NEWSPAPER right here in SAn Antonio.

Bully for you. Like I care. You still can't spell.


And as for the name calling, totally out of line. Didn't ask for it and definitely didn't expect it coming from 'class' folks.

I didn't call you any names. I said IF you print her picture THEN you are sleaze. Maybe that was a little harsh, especially if the situation is as you describe it, but if you follow that route, I would consider you to be just like all the other media folk who are providing for the historicization of the girl's anonymity. Take that for whatever it's worth. Maybe she wants to be famous, I don't know, but neither do you I presume.

Anyway, it sounds like you have already decided what you are going to do, so where's the dilemma? Thanks for wasting my time.

scott
07-21-2003, 04:49 PM
Instead of getting uppity with us, Greg, lets look at how you presented your dilemma.


I've got the info on Kobe's accuser (photos, #s, etc)....how should I go about the story on this? Should I use the photo or what?

You presented this like you are ready to break the case and finally reveal the indentity of the accuser. But in fact, papers have had the information all along and chosen not to use it. If you are okay with being the one to go against that, then don't get upset if/when someone calls you sleazy. Just make your decision and go on.

sainformer
07-21-2003, 04:53 PM
I'm going to hold off on the photo.....if one of the big boys runs it, then i'll follow suit. The address isn't going to be printed but the tax info will be. That's public record.

KoriEllis
07-21-2003, 04:56 PM
Greg, when your article is up, put a copy/link in the NBA forum. I'd like to read your perspective.

Bounce580
07-21-2003, 04:57 PM
I posted it in the other board, but I'll post it here, too. Don't run it. Victims of sexual assault aren't usually even identified by name, much less picture. Her picture is already plastered out there, but don't throw yourself into that group. People will already know what she looks like, so why even risk any of your own image by posting the picture?

Out of compassion to her, if the allegations are true, don't do it.

scott
07-21-2003, 04:57 PM
Of what relevence does the tax info have to her being allegedly raped?

Is being raped and coming forward (which more women need to do) now an invitation for the entire nation to know every aspect of your personal and financial life?

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 04:58 PM
People will already know what she looks like, so why even risk any of your own image by posting the picture?

This is an EXCELLENT point.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 04:59 PM
If there is no point in printing her name then what was the point of printing Kobe's name? In the eyes of the law they are BOTH innocent at this point. 8o

Personally, I think the bastard is guilty and I want everyone in America to see the little girl he raped. I want them to have that picture in their mind every time they think of Kobe Bryant. Instead, they are going to have a picture of poor pathetic Kobe crying for sympathy while holding his wife's hand. :vomit

Rick Von Braun
07-21-2003, 04:59 PM
.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 05:00 PM
Of what relevence does the tax info have to her being allegedly raped?

Yeah, I don't get this either.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 05:01 PM
I think the bastard is guilty and I want everyone in America to see the little girl he raped. I want them to have that picture in their mind every time they think of Kobe Bryant.

Don't you think the wishes of the alleged victim should be considered at all? Who cares what you want?

Sounds like you want to offer her up as a sacrificial lamb to the cause of enlightening the world about sexual assault. There are better ways to accomplish that goal IMO.

Bounce580
07-21-2003, 05:04 PM
Personally, I think the bastard is guilty and I want everyone in America to see the little girl he raped. I want them to have that picture in their mind every time they think of Kobe Bryant.

Ok, great...that's what you want. That really doesn't do a whole lot for the alleged victim. How about if you were the victim, would you want everyone to picture YOUR face everytime they look at Kobe Bryant? If he's guilty (which is still unknown) people will see a rapist. They don't need to "see the girl" every time.


*edit--In other words, what Pill posted while I was replying.

Shelly
07-21-2003, 05:06 PM
I've started several responses and none of them seem right, but here goes.

I personally don't have a problem with her picture being posted. I think by seeing her picture you can identify with her more. FOR ME, seeing her picture made me realize that she really is just a kid and it must have taken a lot of guts for her to come forward and report this and how scared she must of been. And I applaud her for that.

She's been accused of being a slut, gold digger, you name it, she's been called it. When this all came out, I had a totally different picture of her in my mind. She really is the girl next door.

I hope she comes forward and tell her side. If it helps just one person to have the guts to report a rape, then to me, it would be worth it.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 05:07 PM
Don't you think the wishes of the alleged victim should be considered at all? Who cares what you want?

I haven't heard anyone ask what she wants. I'm sure she wishes she could refute Kobe's publicity campaign.


Sounds like you want to offer her up as a sacrificial lamb to the cause of enlightening the world about sexual assault.

I wouldn't want to do anything to hurt her. If she is telling the truth then where is the hurt? She has nothing to be ashamed of.


There are better ways to accomplish that goal IMO.

Like what? This is a perfect opportunity. Maybe at some point her and her attorney will realize that. Maybe she has but her attorney/parents/DA haven't. We don't really know what her true feelings and wishes are. Why should we presume that she wishes to keep her identity a "dirty little secret?"

Spurminator
07-21-2003, 05:10 PM
I think the identities of all parties should be kept secret until the cases are decided by the jury/judge. But that's a whole other discussion.

Yeah, it's your right to publish her life story. But if I owned a news vehicle, I would prefer to take the high road. Then, if she proves to be a liar, smear her without remorse. :cooldevil

scott
07-21-2003, 05:11 PM
Personally, I think the bastard is guilty and I want everyone in America to see the little girl he raped. I want them to have that picture in their mind every time they think of Kobe Bryant.

Maybe she doesn't want to be the posterchild for rape. Maybe she is in enough pain and doesn't want everyone to think of her being raped everytime Kobe is mentioned.

sainformer
07-21-2003, 05:11 PM
Kori, finishing up the story now. I'll have it posted in your forum by 3:30 p.m.

picnroll
07-21-2003, 05:11 PM
I believe normally th identity of an alleged rape victim is protected. The difference here is the alleged perpetrator's prominence. Should your individual ethical standards in publishing be determined by circumstances and by what other writer/publishers do?

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 05:11 PM
FOR ME, seeing her picture made me realize that she really is just a kid and it must have taken a lot of guts for her to come forward and report this and how scared she must of been.

That's what I'm talking about.


She's been accused of being a slut, gold digger, you name it, she's been called it. When this all came out, I had a totally different picture of her in my mind. She really is the girl next door.

Now you can relate to her as a real person. Not a character in a news story.


I hope she comes forward and tell her side. If it helps just one person to have the guts to report a rape, then to me, it would be worth it.

Absolutely.

Gregg - this is the real story behind the story. This debate is what you should go with.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 05:13 PM
I think by seeing her picture you can identify with her more. FOR ME, seeing her picture made me realize that she really is just a kid and it must have taken a lot of guts for her to come forward and report this and how scared she must of been.

See, I just don't know why it should MATTER what any of us want or don't want to see. It doesn't matter if you think it will help people understand her or not. Once her picture comes out, and with the length of time this whole thing is going to take, she will be as famous as Monica Lewinsky. Not everyone wants to deal with that the rest of their life, and it's unfair that just because the person who allegedly assaulted her was a celebrity, she will have no say in it.


I hope she comes forward and tell her side. If it helps just one person to have the guts to report a rape, then to me, it would be worth it.

This is a great point. She could be a spokesperson for victims of sexual assault, and I think her story could be a big help to a lot of girls. But I still think she should have a choice in coming forward, and it really doesn't look like she does.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 05:15 PM
We don't really know what her true feelings and wishes are. Why should we presume that she wishes to keep her identity a "dirty little secret?"

Until she confirms that herself, to assume otherwise and act on that assumption is sheer ignorance. I am surprised you can't see that, as you seem pretty smart.

MannyIsGod
07-21-2003, 05:15 PM
Dan are you dense?

She's released a statment through the DA wishing privacy. Why do you think she's been out of the public eye.

Whether you think the DA was influencing that decision is irrelevent, they have made it and we should respect it.

We just live in an information hungry society and we seek that information at the expensive individuals at times.

I don't understand why the hell people need to see her, it makes no sense.

Bounce580
07-21-2003, 05:22 PM
Eagle County District Attorney Mark Hurlbert said Monday he would not comment on the reports or how they would affect his case. He called the reports "unfortunate."

"I would rather that her privacy be honored and that she be able to remain private," Hurlbert s[/b]

www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/2...index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/kobe.bryant/index.html)
----

Her wishes to remain private would pretty much trump your wishes to see her become some sexual assualt posterchild.

o0drpill0o
07-21-2003, 05:23 PM
We just live in an information hungry society and we seek that information at the expensive individuals at times.

It's weird. It sounds like some people feel as though they have an inherent right to this information. Too bad they don't feel the same way about things that actually matter. This situation is an individual's private experience, and it is none of my business, and none of any of yours either, until the individual involved decides to make it public.

The media will give you all you want, though, so if you feel like lapping it up be my guest. That's your right as an American, dammit.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 05:26 PM
Dan are you dense?
She's released a statment through the DA wishing privacy. Why do you think she's been out of the public eye.
Whether you think the DA was influencing that decision is irrelevent, they have made it and we should respect it.

She didn't release a statement. The DA just said something like: "the victim and her family will not be talking to the press. Please direct all inquiries through our office." Nobody has ever read a statement purportedly written by the victim herself. We don't know what her wishes are and I won't presume that she wants annonymity since I sincerely believe that that is not in her own best interest.


I don't understand why the hell people need to see her, it makes no sense.

Read Shelly's comment above and then maybe you will understand.

I'm sorry, but for personal reasons I am passionate about this issue. Disagree, if you will, but I believe that annonymity does more to protect the perpetrator than it does to protect the victim. And it has the additional undesirable result of protecting all the un-named perpetrators out there who never get reported because their victims are too ashamed to come forward.

tlongII
07-21-2003, 05:27 PM
If she is hot then you should post the photo.

MannyIsGod
07-21-2003, 05:29 PM
and for personal reasons i am passoinate as well, but i disagree with you.

Either way, her lack of exposure should be enough for you to realize she doesn't want to be in the public eye. If she wanted her picture everywhere she would have come to the press, she has not, wonder why?

Dan, its obvious what her intentions are as far as privacy, you are reaching for straws to believe otherwise based on what YOU want.

I know you have your beliefs, but violating someone else's wishes to satisfy those beliefs is not right.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 05:30 PM
"I would rather that her privacy be honored.."

SEE, he wants her to remain private. He didn't say that's what she wants.

Truthsayer
07-21-2003, 05:32 PM
If she is hot then you should post the photo.

:lol Put down the bong dude.

MannyIsGod
07-21-2003, 05:33 PM
Dan,

Do you honestly believe she wants her picture in the media?

tlongII
07-21-2003, 05:35 PM
She is hot. I am down with the photo.

scott
07-21-2003, 05:35 PM
But honoring her privacy is nothing more than allowing her to decide if/when she wants to be public.

Publishing her photo in a newspaper, does not.

sainformer
07-21-2003, 05:38 PM
Here's the link over at the NBA forum on what I ended up writing about the coverage of the Bryant trial coming up.

pub237.ezboard.com/ffulls...=292.topic (http://pub237.ezboard.com/ffullsportpressfrm8.showMessage?topicID=292.topic)

sainformer
07-21-2003, 05:46 PM
Look if you really want to get technical with the whole thing I'll put this in a nutshell for all of us.

The only way anonymity works is, as someone already stated, is that BOTH PARTIES are not divulged.

The minute Bryant's name popped up as being arrested, the DA's wishes went to hell in a hand basket.

This isn't 1986 people or even 1996. With the right info, any one of us can get info on the other. It's that simple and that scary.

Sometimes the best thing to do in a case like this of such prominence is for the victim TO COME FORWARD. That way all speculation is gone. The frenzy for her to talk may still have been there but because the DA and her family want to try and protect her, the media (including myself) are becoming active participants ina three ring circus.

Sadly that is what happens in a society that is of the microwave mentality.

I have no problem taking the high road on this and have but believe me, there will be others who will use this to their advantage.

MannyIsGod
07-21-2003, 05:58 PM
Yeah, everyone has their opinion of the best thing she should do.

The only one that matters is hers.