The Gasol Trade

[thispego]

Lakers Fans, are you or are you not aware that the Gasol trade was bullshit and laughably unfair to the Grizzlies not to mention the entire Western Conference?

secondly, are you ok with this resulting in the best record in the WC in it's toughest season in years, even though it was a cheat?

thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right?

[DarrinS]

**

[rAm]

it sucks, but what are you gonna do


btw, love that quote in your sig, I was so amped for this series after that!

That is until I heard their plane was grounded. They would of landed in LA with so much thunder but all of their focus got sidetracked.

k sorry to go off topic. commence laker troll bitching

[Tradition]

Lakers Fans, are you or are you not aware that the Gasol trade was bullshit and laughably unfair to the Grizzlies not to mention the entire Western Conference?

secondly, are you ok with this resulting in the best record in the WC in it's toughest season in years, even though it was a cheat?

thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right?

Why an asterisk? Because of a trade we pulled off? If the Spurs were pulling trades like this off, you would be enjoying every bit of it. Dont deny that because you are only lying to yourself.

[hive_attack]

Lakers GM is awesome. They got Kobe, Odom, Shaq when he was still good, and Gasol. I guess good GM's deserve asterisks next to them. :rolleyes

[OCHOX3]

Cool, you're conceding your team has no shot.

Stupid post.

[Bob Lanier]

Oh.

[lefty]

It's part of the game, let it go.

[thispego]

Why an asterisk? Because of a trade we pulled off? If the Spurs were pulling trades like this off, you would be enjoying every bit of it. Dont deny that because you are only lying to yourself.

thats why i said this... "thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right? "

So then yes.. you do know it's bullshit trade :tu

[thispego]

Cool, you're conceding your team has no shot.

Stupid post.

how so?

[thispego]

It's part of the game, let it go.

whatever mister "i called duncans3" :rolleyes

[BradLohaus]

Gasol could have at least converted to Islam before the trade.

[thispego]

Lakers GM is awesome. They got Kobe, Odom, Shaq when he was still good, and Gasol. I guess good GM's deserve asterisks next to them. :rolleyes
jerry West gives a bow

[Medvedenko]

Let's not worry about the Gasol trade until after the playoffs are over. The trade was already a success and without it the lakers had no shot without a healthy Bynum.

[Tradition]

thats why i said this... "thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right? "

So then yes.. you do know it's bullshit trade :tu


From an NBA fans standpoint, Id say it was a robbery trade but that it was a legal one. Salaries matched and the trade was fair. Yeah it's bullshit Jerry West helped out with accepting fillers/picks/critters for a player like Gasol but it still was legal. :lobt:

[thispego]

From an NBA fans standpoint, Id say it was a robbery trade but that it was a legal one. Salaries matched and the trade was fair. Yeah it's bullshit Jerry West helped out with accepting fillers/picks/critters for a player like Gasol but it still was legal. :lobt:

Excellent. End thread unless the majority laker fan feels different.

[Medvedenko]

Excellent. End thread unless the majority laker fan feels different.

Just leave it alone. Who cares.

[thispego]

Laker fans do. they know it was a cheat. Most teams have to build title contenders the old fashioned way. some teams get to cheat and take short cuts. It's good to be a laker :tu

[lefty]

whatever mister "i called duncans3" :rolleyes

I did, I did :bang

[thispego]

what, right before it happened?

i'd be mildly impressed if you called it before the game... MAYBE

[DarrinS]

I think the trade was quite fair and balanced.


Sincerely,


Herschel Walker



Click here to see a list of the most lopsided trades in sports history. (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/trades/010716.html)

[BlingX14]

Lakers Fans, are you or are you not aware that the Gasol trade was bullshit and laughably unfair to the Grizzlies not to mention the entire Western Conference?

secondly, are you ok with this resulting in the best record in the WC in it's toughest season in years, even though it was a cheat?

thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right?

No fair! Waaaahhhh!

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/SpaceRaider_photos/crying_baby.jpg

[Medvedenko]

Laker fans do. they know it was a cheat. Most teams have to build title contenders the old fashioned way. some teams get to cheat and take short cuts. It's good to be a laker :tu


I don't understand the cheating aspect.....there was a lot of guys on this board claiming he was a choker and he sucked...blah,blah,blah... Was it robbery yup, but well within the rules. Just like trading for Thomas and getting Barry back was well within the rules. Yes, championships are created through hard work and perseverence. These lakers have battled since Shaq's last day and the only significant trade they pulled off was the Gaso one. They brought the pieces in and they fit for Gasol.

[Tradition]

Laker fans do. they know it was a cheat. Most teams have to build title contenders the old fashioned way. some teams get to cheat and take short cuts. It's good to be a laker :tu

Still was a legal trade under the CBA regardless of the players. If they were able to straight up deal Aaron Mckie's small contract for Gasol, then it would be cheating and illegal. You can call the trade bullshit/robbery/planned all you want but it still was a legal trade.:toast

[thispego]

No fair! Waaaahhhh!

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/SpaceRaider_photos/crying_baby.jpg

yes these questions are so simple a baby could answer them

[thispego]

I don't understand the cheating aspect.....there was a lot of guys on this board claiming he was a choker and he sucked...blah,blah,blah... Was it robbery yup, but well within the rules. Just like trading for Thomas and getting Barry back was well within the rules. Yes, championships are created through hard work and perseverence. These lakers have battled since Shaq's last day and the only significant trade they pulled off was the Gaso one. They brought the pieces in and they fit for Gasol.



Still was a legal trade under the CBA regardless of the players. If they were able to straight up deal Aaron Mckie's small contract for Gasol, then it would be cheating and illegal. You can call the trade bullshit/robbery/planned all you want but it still was a legal trade.:toast

its cool, i would hope my team would try to take short-cuts to championships also, if they could

[heymanooh1]

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5693/wambulancerp0.jpg

[Tradition]

its cool, i would hope my team would try to take short-cuts to championships also, if they could

Our bench is full of players we drafted(Farmar,Sasha,Walton,Turiaf)/signed in free agency (Vlad) or traded for (Ariza). That is one of the biggest strengths to this team is their bench which they have built over the last couple of seasons.:hat

[urunobili]

just like the Celtics trade...

[Critter]

yes we know we made out in the trade

but tell me, you wouldn't be happy if it happened to you? I bet you would say "its part of the nba, things like this happen"

let it go mr. jealous

[thispego]

Our bench is full of players we drafted(Farmar,Sasha,Walton,Turiaf)/signed in free agency (Vlad) or traded for (Ariza). That is one of the biggest strengths to this team is their bench which they have built over the last couple of seasons.:hat

yeah and they'd all be fishing right now if it werent for gasol

[thispego]

yes we know we made out in the trade

but tell me, you wouldn't be happy if it happened to you? I bet you would say "its part of the nba, things like this happen"

let it go mr. jealous

thispego is jealous of nothing. just wanting to make sure LA Fans know what the score is because there have been a lot of inflated egos strutting around this joint since Spurs game 1 loss.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't see what the problem is. How else were the Griz going to dump salary and rebuild? I'm sure they could have gotten more in return but it would have come with a shit load of unexpiring contracts for average talent that would have made them no better off than where they are now. I think it was a must move for the Griz. They needed to start from scratch and build a new team around their two young guards. You can't do that with shit contracts on the books. All this conspiracy talk is horseshit. Unless their is equal talent you'd want to keep or could resign the move was more than legit and LA had the best expiring contract in the league plus a young guard to help soften the deal.

[THE Black Mamba]

Laker fans do. they know it was a cheat. Most teams have to build title contenders the old fashioned way. some teams get to cheat and take short cuts. It's good to be a laker :tu

You Sir, are a whiney little bitch.

[BlingX14]

I don't see what the problem is. How else were the Griz going to dump salary and rebuild? I'm sure they could have gotten more in return but it would have come with a shit load of unexpiring contracts for average talent that would have made them no better off than where they are now. I think it was a must move for the Griz. They needed to start from scratch and build a new team around their two young guards. You can't do that with shit contracts on the books. All this conspiracy talk is horseshit. Unless their is equal talent you'd want to keep or could resign the move was more than legit and LA had the best expiring contract in the league plus a young guard to help soften the deal.

Wow finally a Spur fan with an objective opinion on the matter. :toast

Kudos!

[THE Black Mamba]

thispego is jealous of nothing. just wanting to make sure LA Fans know what the score is because there have been a lot of inflated egos strutting around this joint since Spurs game 1 loss.

The score? We know "the score".

Lakers up one game to zero thanks to the Black Mamba RIPPING the hearts out of the choking Spurs.

[DazedAndConfused]

its cool, i would hope my team would try to take short-cuts to championships also, if they could

They did. Intentionally tanking to get Tim Duncan.

[SpursDynasty]

The Gasol trade was not cheating..

He ain't that good. All he does is make layups when Kobe draws attention. Anyone can do that.

[thispego]

LOL

Los Angeles - Where taking shortcuts to championships happen

[J.T.]

They did. Intentionally tanking to get Tim Duncan.

Yeah I guess David Robinson faked an injury to get Tim Duncan. The Spurs got the No. 1 pick legitimately, there was no Patrick Ewing bullshit conspiracy there.

[Discoflux]

Lakers Fans, are you or are you not aware that the Gasol trade was bullshit and laughably unfair to the Grizzlies not to mention the entire Western Conference?

secondly, are you ok with this resulting in the best record in the WC in it's toughest season in years, even though it was a cheat?

thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right?

Papazit, is that you? Get back to drawing up a winning strategy, stop trolling.

BTW we gave up Kwame, Crittenton, Gasol II, and 2 draft picks so shut your ignorant cakehole.

[thispego]

Papazit, is that you? Get back to drawing up a winning strategy, stop trolling.

BTW we gave up Kwame never has been shit, Crittenton wont ever be shit, Gasol II he wasnt going to be a #1 like his bro,a nd also wont amount to shit, and 2 draft picks :wow so shut your ignorant cakehole.

[BacktoBasics]

You have to look at it after this years or next years run of FA. Whoever the Griz sign is really what they're getting for Gasol and there is a ton of talent out there in the next two years. This move could easily equate to two or three very solid FA over the next two years.

[0.4secs.Dfish]

This thread is making the Spurs fan look like whiners. Dude we gave up a first round drafted player in critterion and we gave up 2 additional firts round picks plus Gasol's brother...
So we gave up 3 first round picks and Gasol's very talented brother....I dont see that as a steal...we picked up a good player now but gave Memphis a ton of players for the future....and how many times has Gasol been an allstar...maybe once I think...
that doesnt sound like a steal to me..it sounds like alot of whining by Jazz fans...who I think also did some shady stuff by trading Barry and getting him back.....yea that was legit..haha

[thispego]

This thread is making the Spurs fan look like whiners. Dude we gave up a first round drafted player in critterion and we gave up 2 additional firts round picks plus Gasol's brother...
So we gave up 3 first round picks and Gasol's very talented brother....I dont see that as a steal...we picked up a good player now but gave Memphis a ton of players for the future....and how many times has Gasol been an allstar...maybe once I think...
that doesnt sound like a steal to me..it sounds like alot of whining by Jazz fans...who I think also did some shady stuff by trading Barry and getting him back.....yea that was legit..haha

:downspin:

spurs will win this series and then we can revisit these topics

[0.4secs.Dfish]

Haha I called you guys Jazz fans...sorry...I had lots of argumenst with those losers.....

[Discoflux]

yeah and they'd all be fishing right now if it werent for gasol

Just like you would be if Duncan had a season ending Knee injury like bynum.

[Phil Hellmuth]

Its fishy that:

1. they made the deal after better offers were offered.

2. GM's have been quoted as of the Memphis GM making weird statements and declines of offers and suggestions from other teams.

3. It was 2 weeks before the All Star break, where better offers could have been heard.

[DriveFor5]

It blows my mind how seriously people take the Gasol trade and the Lakers organization as an actual championship contender. This is a guy whose Grizzlies teams won an average of 36 games a season from 2001-2007 with him on the team. Please.

I'm going to leave this forum until after the Spurs win the series, and it will be interesting to see the sudden silence over the Lakers, just the way there was suddence silence on New Orleans when this forum exploded over how Chris Paul was going to take over the NBA and win the championship.

[0.4secs.Dfish]

Haha...Spurs fans are actually scared...no one thought CPaul was going to take over..he's too young..but you know what Kobe can do with his experience and its funny to see Spurs fans actually show some fear...

[tlongII]

Since Tim Duncan was picked after the Spurs blatantly tanked a season all of the Spurs championships should be pinned with an asterisk.

[Bob Lanier]

Since Tim Duncan was picked after the Spurs blatantly tanked a season all of the Spurs championships should be pinned with an asterisk.

:lobt:

[0.4secs.Dfish]

:lobt:


Haha..thats a good one.....
Bump:bang

[Phil Hellmuth]

Since Tim Duncan was picked after the Spurs blatantly tanked a season all of the Spurs championships should be pinned with an asterisk.

apples and oranges. please stay on topic.

[0.4secs.Dfish]

The topic was dumb to begin with....Spurs fans complaining about the trade in which we gave up a first round player, plus 2 first round picks and gasols brother for Paul gasol who's a one time allstar.....

The only reason to complain is that you are afraid of the Lakers...... plus you got Barry back on a shady deal with the Sonics and didnt you get Finley for nothing off that amnesty deal that he had with Dallas to shed his salary(maybe Im wrong..maybe he went somewhere else first...)
but the point is that its childish to complain now....you guys have your team and we have ours..dont make excuses

[slayermin]

The current Grizzlies GM was handpicked by West and a native of West Virginia. Make up your own opinion.

[0.4secs.Dfish]

The current Grizzlies GM was handpicked by West and a native of West Virginia. Make up your own opinion.

Yes we should believe Jerry West knew all along when he was the GM with the Grizzleys that in the year 07-08 Andrew Bynum would get hurt and the Lakers would need Paul Gasol...so he dratfed Gasol, picked his future GM just so this trade could be made in 2008.....sounds like a conspiracy to me

[IronMexican]

I usually try to reason with Spur fans, but this one is stupid, and sounds like an excuse IF you guys lose.

[thispego]

The thread was not to complain.. it was just to clear something up

From an NBA fans standpoint, Id say it was a robbery trade

Was it robbery yup, but well within the rules.

yes we know we made out in the trade
topic = settled

[Allanon]

Nope, not a cheat because according to many Spur fans, Gasol sucks, is soft and will get dominated this entire series.

How could it be cheating if the Lakers got such a useless player back in return?

[Zero Point Four]

http://www.memphisflyer.com/binary/431a/gasol_rolling_stone_tz_180.jpg

Everybody's happy!

The Grizzlies got what they want - salary cap relief and a chance at rebuilding. Gasol had taken them to the playoffs previously, and never won one game. So they had gone as far as they could with him.

Lakers got what they wanted, too.

Gasol got what he wanted.

Lakers haters got what they wanted - another conspiracy theory opportunity, and another reason to despise the beautiful.

So why are you complaining?

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080522/2008_05_22t004006_450x340_us_nba_wednesday.jpg?x=4 00&y=302&sig=2aCexzc54M8RVzyn1koXOw--

[mamba]

The original poster is a sack of shit. What a little bitch.
The Spurs trading for Kurt Thomas and getting Brent Berry back was the crock.
Suck a fart out of my butt, retard.

[thispego]

The original poster is a sack of shit. What a little bitch.
The Spurs trading for Kurt Thomas and getting Brent Berry back was the crock.
Suck a fart out of my butt, retard.

yeah Barry has been big for us this post season. Did you see that 36 16 and 8 game he had at the beginning of the playoffs? oh wait....

[Discoflux]

I'm going to leave this forum until after the Spurs win the series,

good luck with that, k, bye

[Spurminator]

thispego is exhibiting serious ownership.

I dub him The Sheep Herder.

[thispego]

i will tend to my flock of lakers fans until the Spurs advance

[thispego]

then they are on their own

[watertorture]

It's funny how the original *-slinging Lakers are so upset that the Gasol trade is tainted.
It was within the rules that the Spurs won their 1st championship.
To claim that the trade was robbery and within the rules.
Seems like you want it both ways.

[thispego]

It's funny how the original *-slinging Lakers are so upset that the Gasol trade is tainted.
It was within the rules that the Spurs won their 1st championship.
To claim that the trade was robbery and within the rules.
Seems like you want it both ways.

lakers fans after reading this post - :smchode:

[Zero Point Four]

It's funny how the original *-slinging Lakers are so upset that the Gasol trade is tainted.
It was within the rules that the Spurs won their 1st championship.
To claim that the trade was robbery and within the rules.
Seems like you want it both ways.

To say the Gasol trade was tainted is simply stupid.

Linking the strike-shortened season to a trade almost a decade later is stupid.

Two different topics.

Who got shortchanged in the Gasol trade?

Not Memphis.

Not LA.

Not Gasol.

Not me.

Just you. And that doesn't count.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

To trade your franchise player to a conference rival for minor draft picks is ridiculous and unheard of.
THEN, to seriously expect the common NBA fan to believe that the BEST the Grizzlies could receive for Pau Gasol was draft picks is insulting. Most nba fans are complete idiots, but for the few of us with active brain cells, its obvious the Lakers Cheated. This entire season for the Lakers has an asterisk, IMO.

[IronMexican]

To trade your franchise player to a conference rival for minor draft picks is ridiculous and unheard of.
THEN, to seriously expect the common NBA fan to believe that the BEST the Grizzlies could receive for Pau Gasol was draft picks is insulting. Most nba fans are complete idiots, but for the few of us with active brain cells, its obvious the Lakers Cheated. This entire season for the Lakers has an asterisk, IMO.

he obviously wasn't they're franchise player anymore, Pau was looking to win now, wile the grizz were looking for the future with Gay and Conley. make more sense?

[TD=old&busted]

To trade your franchise player to a conference rival for minor draft picks is ridiculous and unheard of.


expiring contract to rebuild because they were going nowhere, brother :downspin:

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So no other team in the entire league was willing to give young talent up for Pau Gasol except the Conference Rival Lakers?
Makes Sense :tu

[duncan228]

The "tanking" to get Duncan is ridiculous. Boston had the better shot at Duncan, not SA.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The presumption is absolutely ridiculous, the Grizzles could have got more, and saved that cap space at the same time. But its okay. Every game from here on out the Lakers play with Gasol will always have an asterisk. :tu

[TD=old&busted]

The presumption is absolutely ridiculous, the Grizzles could have got more, and saved that cap space at the same time. But its okay. Every game from here on out the Lakers play with Gasol will always have an asterisk. :tu

NBA champs 2008 *
NBA champs 2009 *
NBA champs 20010 *
NBA champs 20011 * (note the back to back - the real indicator of a dynasty)

I can live with that :downspin:

[IronMexican]

The presumption is absolutely ridiculous, the Grizzles could have got more, and saved that cap space at the same time. But its okay. Every game from here on out the Lakers play with Gasol will always have an asterisk. :tu

mybe no other team showed interest? who else was really in the hunt for him? the Cavs? they have less to give than the Lakers did.

[Allanon]

The truth is Gasol wasn't that much sought out. Some teams showed interest but wouldn't part with anything. Most Spur fans say Gasol sucks, Pop probably didn't want to trade away Manu plus filler for him. Spurs didn't have any young talent to trade or barter with.

It's not so much the trade was bad, it was because Gasol went to the Lakers.

Spurs didn't really have anything the Griz wanted (this is where Scola hurt, he could have been used to trade for Pau), Chicago didn't want to give up any of their young talent. The Lakers DID give up young, raw talent in Marc and Critter.

Gasol's got a large contract and a reputation for being soft. He's not a "steal" if you can get him. I'm not even sure many teams wanted Gasol, they just didn't want Gasol to go to the Lakers.

And believe me, the Lakers are better with Bynum than Gasol. If Bynum hadn't gone down, this trade would never have happened this year and actually hurt their championship chances.

The Lakers might not win the Championship this year but they will cash in for years to come with BOTH Bynum and Gasol.

[hsxvvd]

It's part of the game, let it go.

The chick in your sig is fugly, nothing but a dog face and fake tits.

[ballhog]

Hope it works out just like all those deals the Yankees have made. Fail!!!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Nice to see such reassuringly weak takes from 15 year old laker ginger fans. :tu props. :tu

[TD=old&busted]

Nice to see such reassuringly weak takes from 15 year old laker ginger fans. :tu props. :tu

ginger = racist

[2centsworth]

this has to be one of the wussiest threads I've ever seen and it's an embarrassment it comes from a spurs fan.

[Phil Hellmuth]

mybe no other team showed interest? who else was really in the hunt for him? the Cavs? they have less to give than the Lakers did.

you out of the loop dude, theres an article that had many QUOTES from different teams about it telling the Grizz GM about offers.

[greywheel]

NBA champs 2008 *
NBA champs 2009 *
NBA champs 20010 *
NBA champs 20011 * (note the back to back - the real indicator of a dynasty)

I can live with that :downspin:

But I doubt you'll live to see it.

It's funny to hear the comparison between this trade and the Spurs tanking a season to get a 21.4 percent chance at drafting Duncan.

[ShoogarBear]

I used to respect Jerry West. Now he's just a colluding piece of shit.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

And like the founding spurstalk fathers have always said.....if ShoogaBear agrees with ANYTHING that comes from CBF's brain, you know that ish be true.

[Anti.Hero]

I used to respect Jerry West. Now he's just a colluding piece of shit.

lol that's real life. Happens every second in the world. Life's not fair. :downspin:

[Commissioner Stern]

Lakers Fans, are you or are you not aware that the Gasol trade was bullshit and laughably unfair to the Grizzlies not to mention the entire Western Conference?

secondly, are you ok with this resulting in the best record in the WC in it's toughest season in years, even though it was a cheat?

thirdly, What if you win the whole thing? Will this years championship get pinned with an asterisk? will you admit that it will because deep down you'd know that it should? but who cares, cause you won, right? right?

I don't get it. Because the trade was made, he's not really a Laker? Is that what you're getting at? Or are you saying that he's not really a Laker because it was such a steal of a trade?

Either way, your bitching makes no sense. The Lakers got rid of trash and got a player in return. The player wants to play in LA and has been outspoken about how he "escaped" from Memphis. He has repeatedly said that it's a dream to play in L.A. But in your warped logic, it's a "cheat" because Memphis only got trash in return.

Would have been bitching similarly if KG ended up in LA? What if the Lakers ended up sucking even w/ Gasol in the lineup?

[ImmortalD24]

Get over it.

[thispego]

I don't get it. Because the trade was made, he's not really a Laker? Is that what you're getting at? Or are you saying that he's not really a Laker because it was such a steal of a trade?

Either way, your bitching makes no sense. The Lakers got rid of trash and got a player in return. The player wants to play in LA and has been outspoken about how he "escaped" from Memphis. He has repeatedly said that it's a dream to play in L.A. But in your warped logic, it's a "cheat" because Memphis only got trash in return. :tu

Would have been bitching similarly if KG ended up in LA? What if the Lakers ended up sucking even w/ Gasol in the lineup?

[ClingingMars]

But I doubt you'll live to see it.

It's funny to hear the comparison between this trade and the Spurs tanking a season to get a 21.4 percent chance at drafting Duncan.

[turiaf for president]

this has got the be the most ridiculous post ive seen in any website.

so op you want to put an asterisk if the lakers win because we "stole" gasol? ITS CALLED GOOD GMs. you of all people should know (if you are not only a die hard spurs fan but a basketball fan). SA got manu in the 2nd round, parker in the late 1st round, and landed perhaps the greatest PF in nba history in the ONE season the spurs sucked. oh and talk about asterisk, how many games were played in that 1999 season when you won your first championship? 50? so who deserves the asterisk.

take nothing away from the spurs, i for one AM an objective laker fan and is even more a basketball fan. the lakers have to TAKE the throne from the Spurs to win because the spurs are the champs but stop crying cause we have a good gm

[Mr. Body]

Collusion.

[turiaf for president]

oh and trash to you was salary cap relief, a highly prized prospect in javaris, and young star in the euroleague in gasol, and 2 future 1st round picks to the rebuilding grizzlies.

as far as marc gasol is concerned, hes killing the euro league this year. look at his stats

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marc-Gasol-155/

[ClingingMars]

oh and trash to you was salary cap relief, a highly prized prospect in javaris, and young star in the euroleague in gasol, and 2 future 1st round picks.

as far as marc gasol is concerned, hes killing the euro league this year. look at his stats

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marc-Gasol-155/

prospects does not equal production

euroleague stats do not equal NBA stats

'nuff said

- Mars

[turiaf for president]

^ so i guess all trade for draft picks are useless.

i guess manu and parker's stats overseas were useless too?

nuff said

[Mr. Body]

Collusion.

[ClingingMars]

^ so i guess all trade for draft picks are useless.

i guess manu and parker's stats overseas were useless too?

nuff said

we're talking trading a possible HOF center for draft picks.

- Mars

[thispego]

this has got the be the most ridiculous post ive seen in any website.

so op you want to put an asterisk if the lakers win because we "stole" gasol? ITS CALLED GOOD GMs. you of all people should know (if you are not only a die hard spurs fan but a basketball fan). SA got manu in the 2nd round, parker in the late 1st round, and landed perhaps the greatest PF in nba history in the ONE season the spurs sucked. oh and talk about asterisk, how many games were played in that 1999 season when you won your first championship? 50? so who deserves the asterisk.

take nothing away from the spurs, i for one AM an objective laker fan and is even more a basketball fan. the lakers have to TAKE the throne from the Spurs to win because the spurs are the champs but stop crying cause we have a good gm

Yeah you have the most amazing GM in the world turning Kwame brown into a 20 and 10, 7foot spaniard

[Mr. Body]

^ so i guess all trade for draft picks are useless.

i guess manu and parker's stats overseas were useless too?

nuff said

You're being an idiot. There's such thing as relative value. You wouldn't trade $200,000 for a Ford Escort claiming to be happy because it's "a car"; not when others are offering Bentleys.

The trade was horribly lopsided and objectively evidence of collusion. Outsider observers were correct in asserting there was, at base, very bad business practices going on with the Memphis side, but given the league's irrational support for the Lakers franchise and Jerry West's existence with the Memphis organization, it's all but proveable something untoward was going on there. It's not like Memphis was getting any sort of replacement for Gasol -- what's the position most at need now? PF and C -- and it's not like they weren't getting much stronger offers from Chicago and elsewhere.

Collusion.

If there are such as basketball gods, LAL should get smacked out of the playoffs on karma alone, but unfortunately Stern and Such have stronger powers. Maybe.

[Mr.Franchize]

From an NBA fans standpoint, Id say it was a robbery trade but that it was a legal one. Salaries matched and the trade was fair. Yeah it's bullshit Jerry West helped out with accepting fillers/picks/critters for a player like Gasol but it still was legal. :lobt:

jerry west was not the gm for memphis during the trade genius. and grizzlies got gasols younger brother and future star javaris crittiten i feel that in a few years when those player get to their potential people will stop calling this a robbery.

[DazedAndConfused]

If both Gasol and Critter turn out to be huge busts and MEM isn't able to acquire a good free agent with their capspace than I guess we can say this trade was robbery. Until that time, everyone should shut their mouth.

[Mr. Body]

jerry west was not the gm for memphis during the trade genius. and grizzlies got gasols younger brother and future star javaris crittiten i feel that in a few years when those player get to their potential people will stop calling this a robbery.

No shit he wasn't the GM. But where was he the GM? Where does he still have ties? The Lakers didn't make the fucking trade with the Idaho Stampede, did they? West wasn't a Celtics star, was he?

Yes, Marc Gasol, who may someday platoon deep on the bench for a rotting Memphis team, may someday in some manner put up 3 ppg in the NBA, maybe. Clearly he's worth a current All-Star. And I shit on Crittendon's potential. Give me a fucking break. This trade was the best Memphis could get? Nope.

Lakers fans are morons.

[Mr. Body]

Until that time, everyone should shut their mouth.

Go build your own basketball board, you fucking tool.

[thispego]

If both Gasol and Critter turn out to be huge busts and MEM isn't able to acquire a good free agent with their capspace than I guess we can say this trade was robbery. Until that time, everyone should shut their mouth.

lets call it what it is until it isnt, ok?

[WCFBaby]

Damn, are spurs fans still showing their collective gayness about the Gasol trade? Let it go already. You all sound like bitter bitches!

[Mr. Body]

If both Gasol and Critter turn out to be huge busts and MEM isn't able to acquire a good free agent with their capspace than I guess we can say this trade was robbery. Until that time, everyone should shut their mouth.

Let's call the Iraq War the biggest success in the history of human successes and Bush the greatest leader of all times until some arbitrary future date when it's clear to DazedAndConfused what's clear to the rest of the freakin' world. That way we can spare this poor child's feelings.

[thispego]

Damn, are spurs fans still showing their collective gayness about the Gasol trade? Let it go already. You all sound like bitter bitches!

we're fine with it. just want to make sure lakers fans know their franchise cheated.

[Mr. Body]

we're fine with it. just want to make sure lakers fans know their franchise cheated.

This.

Basically it's kind of a shrug. It's American culture nowadays. It's Paris Hilton and Britney Spears on the television instead of real news, it's collusive trades to get the Lakers back on top. What's sad is Lakers fans try really hard to defend it, like Paris fans try really hard to explain what value she has. As long as there's real basketball to be played, and that much isn't ruined, we'll be happy. This starry-eyed lack of substance will always be around.

[WCFBaby]

we're fine with it. just want to make sure lakers fans know their franchise cheated.

LMAO!!!! "cheated" LMAO!!! Please provide details and proof of the cheating. Please....please....please!!! :downspin::lmao:rollin

[Mr. Body]

LMAO!!!! "cheated" LMAO!!! Please provide details and proof of the cheating. Please....please....please!!! :downspin::lmao:rollin

Oh Jesus. Can't you fucking read?

[thispego]

LMAO!!!! "cheated" LMAO!!! Please provide details and proof of the cheating. Please....please....please!!! :downspin::lmao:rollin

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/080201gasol_trade.html

[SnakeBoy]

You Sir, are a whiney little bitch.

I hate having to agree with a Laker fan!

[JamStone]

Wilt Chamberlain for Darrall Imhoff, Jerry Chambers, and Archie Clark.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar for Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman, and Dave Meyers.

Artis Gilmore for Dave Corzine and Mark Olberding.


Lopsided trades for big men happen sometimes. Why is it necessary to bitch about it just because it made another team better?

Should non Spurs fans bitch about David Robinson getting hurt in the 1996-97 season and the Spurs tanking to get the best chance at Tim Duncan? Should the Spurs feel guilty about getting Duncan when they already had David Robinson?

Shit, if a team can be lucky enough to make a great deal or lucky enough to get a HOF caliber center when they already have an a HOF caliber center on the roster, there is nothing to feel guilty about nor ashamed of.

The Gasol trade was lopsided, highway robbery. I don't see the point of trying to make Lakers fans feel guilty about it. If it happened to your favorite team, you'd be happy about it too.

[SRJ]

Our bench is full of players we drafted(Farmar,Sasha,Walton,Turiaf)/signed in free agency (Vlad) or traded for (Ariza). That is one of the biggest strengths to this team is their bench which they have built over the last couple of seasons

And for all of that, Kobe complained and complained and complained.

[JamStone]

His complaints got him Pau Gasol, didn't it?

[turiaf for president]

You're being an idiot. There's such thing as relative value. You wouldn't trade $200,000 for a Ford Escort claiming to be happy because it's "a car"; not when others are offering Bentleys.

The trade was horribly lopsided and objectively evidence of collusion. Outsider observers were correct in asserting there was, at base, very bad business practices going on with the Memphis side, but given the league's irrational support for the Lakers franchise and Jerry West's existence with the Memphis organization, it's all but proveable something untoward was going on there. It's not like Memphis was getting any sort of replacement for Gasol -- what's the position most at need now? PF and C -- and it's not like they weren't getting much stronger offers from Chicago and elsewhere.

Collusion.

If there are such as basketball gods, LAL should get smacked out of the playoffs on karma alone, but unfortunately Stern and Such have stronger powers. Maybe.

that was in response to the comment that draft picks are useless and the euro stats are meaningless.

collusion? yea stern wants the the big markets to be soo good that the knicks have been bottom feeders for the past 5 years.

collusion LOL. oh btw jerry west stepped down as the gm of the grizzles and now resides in la again so he had no part in this trade

[turiaf for president]

Yeah you have the most amazing GM in the world turning Kwame brown into a 20 and 10, 7foot spaniard

thanks?

get your head outta ure ass man. stop crying

[ClingingMars]

that was in response to the comment that draft picks are useless and the euro stats are meaningless.

so many draft picks in the NBA are busts that low ones essentially are meaningless.

- Mars

[turiaf for president]

we're talking trading a possible HOF center for draft picks.

- Mars

gasol HOF? now ure stretching it. no way in hell hes making the HOF.

trades like that have happened all the time in the nba.

nets got carter for draft picks and an old mourning

barkley went to the suns for hornicek

bulls got the draft rights to pippen for polynice

oh but wait theres collusion in the nba

[turiaf for president]

so many draft picks in the NBA are busts that low ones essentially are meaningless.

- Mars

i disagree. finley was a late 1st round pick. so was parker. manu was a 2nd round pick. so was rashard lewis, carlos boozer, gilbert arenas, etc.

i agree there are busts but if you have good gms (spurs included) you find the right players for your team

[SRJ]

His complaints got him Pau Gasol, didn't it?

Good for him. Meanwhile, we have other top players around the league who aren't drama queens despite the clear lack of talent on the roster.

If the roster isn't good enough, you can piss and moan in the press every offseason or you can be a professional about it. Kobe chose the former option.

[2Cleva]

Their are pimps and hoes in the world. Which side are you on?

LA hustled Memphis for their own needs. I see nothing wrong with that. Of course there are haters who can't stand that. If you don't have haters in your life, you must not be doing all the right things.

[SRJ]

If you don't have haters in your life, you must not be doing all the right things.

Sincerely,
George W. Bush

[JamStone]

Good for him. Meanwhile, we have other top players around the league who aren't drama queens despite the clear lack of talent on the roster.

If the roster isn't good enough, you can piss and moan in the press every offseason or you can be a professional about it. Kobe chose the former option.

And now the Lakers are in the Western Conference Finals, 2 wins away from the NBA Finals.

Yeah Kobe bitched about his situation. Yes, he's a jerk and an egomaniac.

But, you know what? He got what he wanted. So, now those who want to criticize him and the Lakers are left with bitching about his bitching, crying about his crying.

Close the circle.

[2Cleva]

Sincerely,
George W. Bush

Exactly.

I can't stand the man but I gotta admit - anyone who says "Fuck it, I'm gonna do it my way" to the entire world got some King Kong brass ones.

The man strong-armed the Presidency and has ran the US like his personal bitch, taking out other bitches (countries) along the way.

The worse President in US History but one of the biggest gangsta moves ever. Scarface and Michael Corleone can't even come close.

[SRJ]

But, you know what? He got what he wanted. So, now those who want to criticize him and the Lakers are left with bitching about his bitching, crying about his crying.

Close the circle.

I'd rather not. If that reflects badly on me in some way, well, I'm just a poster on a message board. He's the face of an NBA franchise and the league's MVP. One of us bears a great deal of responsibility.

[SRJ]

Exactly.

I can't stand the man but I gotta admit - anyone who says "Fuck it, I'm gonna do it my way" to the entire world got some King Kong brass ones.

The man strong-armed the Presidency and has ran the US like his personal bitch, taking out other bitches (countries) along the way.

The worse President in US History but one of the biggest gangsta moves ever. Scarface and Michael Corleone can't even come close.

:lol

I have to admit, I didn't think you would own that!

[JamStone]

That responsibility as a franchise player is to get his team to win. He wanted the best chance to give his team the opportunity to win.

You can criticize Kobe for his character flaws, his ego, his alleged sexual assault along with other off the court shit, for being a mean teammate at times. But, you cannot question his desire to win, his work ethic, or his undeniable talent.

That desire to win is the reason he bitched. And, that bitching got him Pau Gasol which in turn gave his team a better chance to win, which is one of--and probably the most important of his--many responsibilities as a franchise player.

[monosylab1k]

Pop probably didn't want to trade away Manu plus filler for him.

Since Kwame + filler got the "deal" done, I don't see why Pop would have wanted to trade Manu for him. Not sure if he offered Oberto + filler (and even still, Oberto > Kwame), but either way the Grizz were only going to make a deal with the Lakers.

Collusion.

[monosylab1k]

His complaints got him Pau Gasol, didn't it?

I'd say the resurgence of the Celtics and David Stern's cream-filled undies thinking of Lakers/Celtics in the Finals got Kobe his Robin.

[turiaf for president]

^ the spurs didnt have a 9 million dollar expiring contract. u guys crying collusion is ridiculous. just listen to yourselves.

if there is collusion in the nba, the knicks would be contending year in and year out. plus it would be like pro wrestling and the extent of its fan base would be kids and guys living in their moms basement making minimum wage.

[SRJ]

That responsibility as a franchise player is to get his team to win. He wanted the best chance to give his team the opportunity to win.

Can't you do that without making an ass of yourself every offseason? Did Paul Pierce make a big stink every offseason? Did LeBron James?


But, you can question his desire to win, his work ethic, or his undeniable talent.

I assume you mean "can't" question his desire to win, etc. In any event, I did not. Kobe is an amazing player and it would be stupid of me to argue otherwise.


That desire to win is the reason he bitched. And, that bitching got him Pau Gasol which in turn gave his team a better chance to win, which is one of--and probably the most important of his--many responsibilities as a franchise player.

Are you saying "bitching = greater desire to win?"

[monosylab1k]

^ the spurs didnt have a 9 million dollar expiring contract. u guys crying collusion is ridiculous. just listen to yourselves.

Yeah cuz the best way to rebuild is to get draft picks in the mid-to-late 20's and dump salary in order to attract high profile free agents to play in....uh....Memphis.

Collusion.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

if there is collusion in the nba, the knicks would be contending year in and year out. plus it would be like pro wrestling and the extent of its fan base would be kids and guys living in their moms basement making minimum wage.
Its a business. When opportunity presents itself, opportunists like Stern and co will take advantage of it.
Maybe conspiracy theories are a little ridiculous when it comes to every little thing but not they're not that far-fetched with blatantly imbalanced. People still bend rules when they can.

[turiaf for president]

Yeah cuz the best way to rebuild is to get draft picks in the mid-to-late 20's and dump salary in order to attract high profile free agents to play in....uh....Memphis.

Collusion.

when u have a cheap ass owner who doesnt care about winning. only making money yes thats the best way. what has memphis done. nothing. what will they do in the same division as the spurs mavs rockets hornets. nothing. so their logic is why play gasol 14 mil a year when they are gonna lose.

[Mr. Body]

Now Memphis is forced to use their high draft pick on the same position they traded away with Gasol. Insane. Just insane.

Or collusion.

[2Cleva]

Now Memphis is forced to use their high draft pick on the same position they traded away with Gasol. Insane. Just insane.

Or collusion.

Or bad GM work - which of course never happens.

Or the simplest answer - its always over dough.

[JamStone]

Can't you do that without making an ass of yourself every offseason? Did Paul Pierce make a big stink every offseason? Did LeBron James?

Kobe kept quiet for three years. Frustration can make you do some outrageous things. Paul Pierce doesn't get followed around by fans video taping his every word. There is a lot of indication that he was bitching as much as Kobe but you don't hear about it because he's not Kobe. LeBron is on the verge of exploding in a similar way Kobe did last summer.




Are you saying "bitching = greater desire to win?"

Nope. But, in Kobe's case, his bitching was partly a result of his desire to win.

[Mr. Body]

Or bad GM work - which of course never happens.

Or the simplest answer - its always over dough.

There are a lot of stupid GMs and CEOs out there, but none are stupid enough to pull that trade without extra incentive. Besides the fact, if that trade was for Gasol any other direction - the Clips or the Bucks, say - the league steps in and makes a couple suggestions. If he were sent out to San Antonio for sure it would have been nixed. Stern would have gone unitary executive all over that trade. Instead he masturbates quietly in his offices and pretend nothing happened.

[Mr. Body]

Nope. But, in Kobe's case, his bitching was partly a result of his desire to win.

And partly his emptiness in all other parts of his life.

[turiaf for president]

Now Memphis is forced to use their high draft pick on the same position they traded away with Gasol. Insane. Just insane.

Or collusion.

yes cuz they dont have to pay 14 mil to a 1st round pick like they had to pay gasol in the next 4 years competing with the hornets rockets mavs and spurs.

or ure a moron that cries collusion when you have nothing meaningful to say

[thispego]

Lakers Fans :lmao

If I were you I would readily admit that yes we fucked the grizzlies big time and spat in the face of every team in the league who try to build title contenders the conventional way. That way you wouldn't look like idiots trying to defend the trade as legitimate and at the same time you'd be sticking it to everyone cause you know you cheated and there's nothing anyone can do about it. BUUu bututtbbuttt javaris criterdom is gonna be a big star one day!!! :lol

[monosylab1k]

javaris criterdom is gonna be a big star one day!!! :lol

To be fair, we all know the Grizzlies desperately needed a young PG because they weren't able to get somebody like Mike Conley Jr. in the draft.

[2Cleva]

There are a lot of stupid GMs and CEOs out there, but none are stupid enough to pull that trade without extra incentive. Besides the fact, if that trade was for Gasol any other direction - the Clips or the Bucks, say - the league steps in and makes a couple suggestions. If he were sent out to San Antonio for sure it would have been nixed. Stern would have gone unitary executive all over that trade. Instead he masturbates quietly in his offices and pretend nothing happened.

Right. Name another trade that has ever been nixed outside of cap purposes?

You want extra incentive? Memphis owner is looking to sale the team and wants as small as payroll as possible as well as the most appealing roster. New owners always want to rebuild teams and having young talent and picks is the best ammo to do that.

No conspiracy. Just a situation where one team didn't care about short-term on court value and wanted fiancial flexibility instead of talent.

If you want to complain about a collusion - look into how owners are using the lux tax as a de facto hard salary cap and its why so many won't go over it even though they are making plenty to pay it and still turn a huge profit. Thats why teams like Chicago wouldn't bite. But of course - looking at that would demand a larger understanding of the league instead of just going off a couple of articles and what someone said on Mike and Mike.

[turiaf for president]

Lakers Fans :lmao

If I were you I would readily admit that yes we fucked the grizzlies big time and spat in the face of every team in the league who try to build title contenders the conventional way. That way you wouldn't look like idiots trying to defend the trade as legitimate and at the same time you'd be sticking it to everyone cause you know you cheated and there's nothing anyone can do about it. BUUu bututtbbuttt javaris criterdom is gonna be a big star one day!!! :lol

no shit we fucked the grizzles but ure the one bitching about it. dont hate cuz u didnt get him for next to nothing. trades like this happen all the time as i pointed out before.

build title contenders the conventional way? tell me oh great one what way is that? making trades that DONT improve your team?

[2Cleva]

Lakers Fans :lmao

If I were you I would readily admit that yes we fucked the grizzlies big time and spat in the face of every team in the league who try to build title contenders the conventional way. That way you wouldn't look like idiots trying to defend the trade as legitimate and at the same time you'd be sticking it to everyone cause you know you cheated and there's nothing anyone can do about it. BUUu bututtbbuttt javaris criterdom is gonna be a big star one day!!! :lol

That I agree.

When judging by talent, we hustled Memphis and told the league to kiss our ass.

I don't see anything wrong with admitting that. But crying a river about it is even worse but thats because you know your era is almost over and its hard to have faith that the organization will rise again to the top from the bottom. As a Laker fan, I'm not worried because I know the franchise can come back time and time again. For the Lakers, barely making the playoffs is the bottom.

[LakerRings]

what a retarded thread. Especially on a forum for a team who owe every ring to their blatant tanking to ensure getting duncan.

Grizzlies were open for business on Gasol. No one else wanted to take on his contract. West was already gone and had nothing whatsoever to do with it, other than having been there a year earlier when the first talks were had.

[turiaf for president]

To be fair, we all know the Grizzlies desperately needed a young PG because they weren't able to get somebody like Mike Conley Jr. in the draft.

you must be working for the grizzles knowing what they are looking for.

[Mr. Body]

what a retarded thread. Especially on a forum for a team who owe every ring to their blatant tanking to ensure getting duncan.

Grizzlies were open for business on Gasol. No one else wanted to take on his contract. West was already gone and had nothing whatsoever to do with it, other than having been there a year earlier when the first talks were had.

1. :lol on the Spurs tanking garbage.

2. Chicago, among other teams were in the market for Gasol. It turned out the Grizz were selling him for ten cents on the dollar. Somehow - wonder of wonders - the league was alright with this. This Lakers fantasy that no other teams were offering value for him is a pipe dream.

[2Cleva]

What thispego is trying to do is like one of the nerds in school trying to yell at the HS BMOC for always getting all the hot girls.

Sad.

And Laker fans defending it are even worse. Just say "yeah, we fucked her" and move on and keep pimping.

:hat

[monosylab1k]

you must be working for the grizzles knowing what they are looking for.

redundancy at PG was obviously a big need for them.

[thispego]

To be fair, we all know the Grizzlies desperately needed a young PG because they weren't able to get somebody like Mike Conley Jr. in the draft.

if i were a grizzly fan i would be purchasing western conference finals tickets for 2010 right now

[turiaf for president]

1. :lol on the Spurs tanking garbage.

2. Chicago, among other teams were in the market for Gasol. It turned out the Grizz were selling him for ten cents on the dollar. Somehow - wonder of wonders - the league was alright with this. This Lakers fantasy that no other teams were offering value for him is a pipe dream.

the bulls def were offering talent but they were all due for contract extensions. gordon turned down 10 mil a year from the bulls. you think the grizzles are gonna play gordon more than 10 mil a year when gasol was making 14? no way no how.

[Findog]

redundancy at PG was obviously a big need for them.

It's not like Conley or Lowry plays for the Grizz and are the exact same thing: promising young points.

[Mr. Body]

What thispego is trying to do is like one of the nerds in school trying to yell at the HS BMOC for always getting all the hot girls.

Sad.

And Laker fans defending it are even worse. Just say "yeah, we fucked her" and move on and keep pimping.

:hat

Uh, okay dude. And... uh... you're like most Lakers fans who think their sexual prowess and pathetic lives rise momentarily out of the basement because they think because they picked the team Hollywood stars picked somehow that glitz has rubbed off on them.

[monosylab1k]

It's not like Conley or Lowry plays for the Grizz and are the exact same thing: promising young points.

Maybe the Grizz are looking to play extreme small ball next year - Conley, Lowry, & Javaris all starting, with Rudy Gay at PF and Mike Miller at C. Brilliant!

[turiaf for president]

redundancy at PG was obviously a big need for them.

on the outside ure prolly right.

but conley was injured this year and they dont know if hes gonna be the same player again. plus getting j critt was an "audition" amongst conley, lowry and critt to see who they were going to trade away (their gm said so). plus to them marc gasol was a good prospect and drafting a big man high in this years draft means 3-4 mil a year for the next 4 years to them rather than playing gasol 60 mil in the same time span

[Mr. Body]

the bulls def were offering talent but they were all due for contract extensions. gordon turned down 10 mil a year from the bulls. you think the grizzles are gonna play gordon more than 10 mil a year when gasol was making 14? no way no how.

That looks a lot like an expiring contract to me.

[turiaf for president]

What thispego is trying to do is like one of the nerds in school trying to yell at the HS BMOC for always getting all the hot girls.

Sad.

And Laker fans defending it are even worse. Just say "yeah, we fucked her" and move on and keep pimping.

:hat

lol

im not defending the fact that we fucked the grizzlies. im defending the fact that trades like this happen all the time and the grizzlies valid reasons (on their part) for making this lopsided trade

[LakerRings]

1. :lol on the Spurs tanking garbage.

2. Chicago, among other teams were in the market for Gasol. It turned out the Grizz were selling him for ten cents on the dollar. Somehow - wonder of wonders - the league was alright with this. This Lakers fantasy that no other teams were offering value for him is a pipe dream.


oh please - the whole world knows the spurs tanked to get duncan - are you kidding? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv24frDECA4


Chicago didn't have the expiring contract to give the grizzlies what they wanted. But who cares? Your team is getting old,a nd will be dominated by the lakers for years to come. enjoy it.

[Mr. Body]

im not defending the fact that we fucked the grizzlies. im defending the fact that trades like this happen all the time and the grizzlies valid reasons (on their part) for making this lopsided trade

Name another trade that was anywhere -- anywhere -- close to this one. There are none. And the Grizzlies had no real valid reasons to make the trade. That's why -- surprise, surprise -- so many league observers were shocked by it. This kind of trade -- All-Star for absolutely nothing, not even decent players like Hornacek and Jeff Malone -- never happens. It absolutely never happens.

[turiaf for president]

That looks a lot like an expiring contract to me.

contract extensions arent only expiring contracts genius. its also restricted free agents and rookie contracts that are eligible for extensions I.E gordon, tyrus thomas etc. plus they woulda had to take nocioni's 8 mil a year deal also and that was the deal breaker

[41times]

No shit he wasn't the GM. But where was he the GM? Where does he still have ties? The Lakers didn't make the fucking trade with the Idaho Stampede, did they? West wasn't a Celtics star, was he?

Yes, Marc Gasol, who may someday platoon deep on the bench for a rotting Memphis team, may someday in some manner put up 3 ppg in the NBA, maybe. Clearly he's worth a current All-Star. And I shit on Crittendon's potential. Give me a fucking break. This trade was the best Memphis could get? Nope.

Lakers fans are morons.

Other than the Jerry West ties to L.A., which IMO clearly had much to do with this trade; is the fact that according to Memphis and L.A. no other teams were contacted about making this deal for Gasol?

Can that be right? Don't you think other teams would have offered more to Memphis for Gasol? I do.

The trade smacks of a behind the back, back alley deal that the league clearly endorses. After all who is a bigger TV market Memphis or L.A. ? hmmm that's a close one.

What's next, Dallas trading Dirk to Phoenix for D.J. Strawberry, Alondo Tucker and a bag of magic beans so Dirk can again play with his best friend Nash and hopefully get a ring?

Hey the Mavs gets 2 rookies that they so desperately need and some beans!!! seems fair.

[turiaf for president]

Name another trade that was anywhere -- anywhere -- close to this one. There are none. And the Grizzlies had no real valid reasons to make the trade. That's why -- surprise, surprise -- so many league observers were shocked by it. This kind of trade -- All-Star for absolutely nothing, not even decent players like Hornacek and Jeff Malone -- never happens. It absolutely never happens.


Wilt Chamberlain for Darrall Imhoff, Jerry Chambers, and Archie Clark.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar for Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman, and Dave Meyers.

Artis Gilmore for Dave Corzine and Mark Olberding.


Lopsided trades for big men happen sometimes. Why is it necessary to bitch about it just because it made another team better?

Should non Spurs fans bitch about David Robinson getting hurt in the 1996-97 season and the Spurs tanking to get the best chance at Tim Duncan? Should the Spurs feel guilty about getting Duncan when they already had David Robinson?

Shit, if a team can be lucky enough to make a great deal or lucky enough to get a HOF caliber center when they already have an a HOF caliber center on the roster, there is nothing to feel guilty about nor ashamed of.

The Gasol trade was lopsided, highway robbery. I don't see the point of trying to make Lakers fans feel guilty about it. If it happened to your favorite team, you'd be happy about it too.




nets got carter for draft picks and an old mourning

barkley went to the suns for hornicek

bulls got the draft rights to pippen for polynice

[Mr. Body]

oh please - the whole world knows the spurs tanked to get duncan - are you kidding? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv24frDECA4


Chicago didn't have the expiring contract to give the grizzlies what they wanted. But who cares? Your team is getting old,a nd will be dominated by the lakers for years to come. enjoy it.

The Spurs tanking is week-old fish. No one buys it.

The Lakers will get redemption for collusion and karma. Bynum will never be the same again and Gasol and Odom will never get over the wimp factor. They sold off all their picks and a chunk of their developing players. Kobe's black soul will haunt him forever. After he retires he'll find there is nothing else for him in life - no one likes him, he cannot relate even to his wife and children, rape is still illegal - and he'll finally take a shotgun to the mouth by the end of the next decade. Sad, really.

[thispego]

no shit we fucked the grizzles but ure the one bitching about it. dont hate cuz u didnt get him for next to nothing. trades like this happen all the time as i pointed out before.

build title contenders the conventional way? tell me oh great one what way is that? making trades that DONT improve your team?

yeah trades this lopsided happen every other day or so...

conventional way is not cheating a taking shortcuts like the Gasol for Peanuts trade

[turiaf for president]

^ do u not read?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2545408&postcount=168

quit crying

[LakerRings]

The Spurs tanking is week-old fish. No one buys it.

The Lakers will get redemption for collusion and karma. Bynum will never be the same again and Gasol and Odom will never get over the wimp factor. They sold off all their picks and a chunk of their developing players. Kobe's black soul will haunt him forever. After he retires he'll find there is nothing else for him in life - no one likes him, he cannot relate even to his wife and children, rape is still illegal - and he'll finally take a shotgun to the mouth by the end of the next decade. Sad, really.


lmao. week old fish indeed. Well, enjoy your sushi.

[Steez]

Who cares what NBA teams do?
We have no control over that... We can only go for what we have.

Lakers got Gasol for cheap, exp. contract, picks, young prospects etc.... it may be a steal, and other teams may have offered better trades -- doesn't change the fact that Gasol is a Laker. If you want to put an * on their championship run, so be it. It won't change the fact that if they win, they will be called champions.

I dont know why Lakers fans here are being so uptight about another teams fan saying you stole this player, who cares?

[JamStone]

The Spurs tanking is week-old fish. No one buys it.

The Lakers will get redemption for collusion and karma. Bynum will never be the same again and Gasol and Odom will never get over the wimp factor. They sold off all their picks and a chunk of their developing players. Kobe's black soul will haunt him forever. After he retires he'll find there is nothing else for him in life - no one likes him, he cannot relate even to his wife and children, rape is still illegal - and he'll finally take a shotgun to the mouth by the end of the next decade. Sad, really.

Wow. Take the NBA way too seriously do you?

[Mr. Body]

lmao. week old fish indeed. Well, enjoy your sushi.

hurr

I can't wait until these Lakers bandwagoners go back into their hovels.

[Mr. Body]

Wow. Take the NBA way too seriously do you?

:lol No. But Kobe is a wretched person, as is Phil. I have no respect for them as human beings, despite their talent. They're emblematic of what is wasteful, self-centered, and unproductive in our society. It took only a second to envision the lives before them.

[monosylab1k]

bulls got the draft rights to pippen for polynice

swapping high draft picks like this happens all the time. This applies zero.

Most of those examples you gave, there was at least something of definable value traded away right then, and the trade may not have looked great inially, but it only looked really bad in hindsight. Most of them didn't look nearly as one-sided when the trade was initially made. The only trade that comes close is the Randy Moss trade, which was godawful, but even at the time alot of people thought the Patriots were stupid to take Moss.

This Gasol trade smelled like bullshit from the second it was announced. That's what makes it so bad.

[2Cleva]

Uh, okay dude. And... uh... you're like most Lakers fans who think their sexual prowess and pathetic lives rise momentarily out of the basement because they think because they picked the team Hollywood stars picked somehow that glitz has rubbed off on them.

Uh no. I'm the King baby.

:bking

[thispego]

What thispego is trying to do is like one of the nerds in school trying to yell at the HS BMOC for always getting all the hot girls.

Sad.

And Laker fans defending it are even worse. Just say "yeah, we fucked her" and move on and keep pimping.

:hat

best analogy by a laker fan... ever? :rolleyes

you didn't get laid if you gave her roofies :rolleyes

[Mr. Body]

swapping high draft picks like this happens all the time. This applies zero.

Most of those examples you gave, there was at least something of definable value traded away right then, and the trade may not have looked great inially, but it only looked really bad in hindsight. Most of them didn't look nearly as one-sided when the trade was initially made. The only trade that comes close is the Randy Moss trade, which was godawful, but even at the time alot of people thought the Patriots were stupid to take Moss.

This Gasol trade smelled like bullshit from the second it was announced. That's what makes it so bad.

Well said.

[2Cleva]

The Detroit Pistons have acquired forward/center Rasheed Wallace from the Atlanta Hawks and guard Mike James from the Boston Celtics as part of a three-way deal that sends guards Chucky Atkins and Lindsey Hunter to Boston and guard Bobby Sura, center Zeljko Rebraca and Celtics forward Chris Mills to Atlanta, it was announced today by President of Basketball Operations Joe Dumars. Boston will receive Detroit’s first-round pick in the 2004 draft and cash compensation. Atlanta will receive the rights to Milwaukee’s 2004 first-round draft choice, which Detroit previously obtained from Denver.

Another big-time move that was worthy of the ring that followed. And it too was done with last year contracts and draft picks.

[monosylab1k]

Even worse is that right after GIVING AWAY Gasol, every team tried to get Mike Miller for a similar deal. But suddenly NOW the Grizzlies want equal value for Miller and cap space doesn't mean jack shit anymore.

[2Cleva]

best analogy by a laker fan... ever? :rolleyes

you didn't get laid if you gave her roofies :rolleyes

LOL. Roofies?

Cheers!

:toast

[turiaf for president]

swapping high draft picks like this happens all the time. This applies zero.

Most of those examples you gave, there was at least something of definable value traded away right then, and the trade may not have looked great inially, but it only looked really bad in hindsight. Most of them didn't look nearly as one-sided when the trade was initially made. The only trade that comes close is the Randy Moss trade, which was godawful, but even at the time alot of people thought the Patriots were stupid to take Moss.

This Gasol trade smelled like bullshit from the second it was announced. That's what makes it so bad.

good points.

heres my take in this whole thing.

the lakers argueably have the biggest fan base in the league. and as such that means they have the most amount of haters. same thing with the yankees, cowboys, patriots, etc.

the mavs got j kidd for a prospect in devin harris and a retired keith van horn along with couple picks and diop. no one complained when that happened because there isnt a dislike for the mavs nation wide like there is on the lakers.

if the lakers traded the same players for j kidd, people would be bitching that the lakers got kidd without getting rid of bynum

[monosylab1k]

Another big-time move that was worthy of the ring that followed. And it too was done with last year contracts and draft picks.

Rasheed Wallace at the time was considered a malcontent of the highest order and not somebody that too many teams were willing to have on their team.

[SPARKY]

A bad trade in talent terms for the Grizz, unless they work some magic with the low 1st round picks. Or the other Gasol shows up and wrecks the league. Yeah, right.

Still, the Grizz shed an awfully big financial commitment to a player who, at best, guaranteed first round playoff exits by himself. And the Lakers took on a big contract for a player who isn't that great.

We wouldn't exactly expect Holt Cat to take on Gasol's contract for the next 3 seasons, would we? Pop was pissed because the Grizz wouldn't deal Mike Miller to SA.

[thispego]

oh please - the whole world knows the spurs tanked to get duncan - are you kidding? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv24frDECA4


Chicago didn't have the expiring contract to give the grizzlies what they wanted. But who cares? Your team is getting old,a nd will be dominated by the lakers for years to come. enjoy it.

I think Chuck is absolutely right. If you do bad things they will come back to bite you. Good things dont happen to cheaters.. Which is why the Spurs have won 4 titles since then and why the Lakers wont win this year. cheating is ugly business brah.

[J21]

good points.

heres my take in this whole thing.

the lakers argueably have the biggest fan base in the league. and as such that means they have the most amount of haters. same thing with the yankees, cowboys, patriots, etc.

the mavs got j kidd for a prospect in devin harris and a retired keith van horn along with couple picks and diop. no one complained when that happened because there isnt a dislike for the mavs nation wide like there is on the lakers.

if the lakers traded the same players for j kidd, people would be bitching that the lakers got kidd without getting rid of bynum

no the mavs were way better with devin harris

[2Cleva]

Rasheed Wallace at the time was considered a malcontent of the highest order and not somebody that too many teams were willing to have on their team.

Indeed.

And Gasol was considered a max-contract player not worthy of max-contract status and teams were wary of giving up assets for him when they wouldn't be guaranteed a championship-contender yet still would have to pay the luxtax.

Money is why Gasol is a Laker, not conspiracy.

[SRJ]

the mavs got j kidd for a prospect in devin harris and a retired keith van horn along with couple picks and diop. no one complained when that happened because there isnt a dislike for the mavs nation wide like there is on the lakers.

Actually, there was no outrage because Dallas was already a team in decline and it was pretty obvious that JKidd 08 isn't the same old JKidd; OTOH, Pau Gasol is right in the prime of his career.

[2Cleva]

A bad trade in talent terms for the Grizz, unless they work some magic with the low 1st round picks. Or the other Gasol shows up and wrecks the league. Yeah, right.

Still, the Grizz shed an awfully big financial commitment to a player who, at best, guaranteed first round playoff exits by himself. And the Lakers took on a big contract for a player who isn't that great.

We wouldn't exactly expect Holt Cat to take on Gasol's contract for the next 3 seasons, would we? Pop was pissed because the Grizz wouldn't deal Mike Miller to SA.

Sparky gets it (no pun intended).

[monosylab1k]

And Gasol was considered a max-contract player not worthy of max-contract status and teams were wary of giving up assets for him when they wouldn't be guaranteed a championship-contender yet still would have to pay the luxtax.

assets? what assets? the Lakers gave up assets?

[turiaf for president]

Even worse is that right after GIVING AWAY Gasol, every team tried to get Mike Miller for a similar deal. But suddenly NOW the Grizzlies want equal value for Miller and cap space doesn't mean jack shit anymore.

thats a great point. my argument here is millers contract was more manageable at 8 mil a year. plus after gasol's trade they were under the cap so they didnt have to play a luxury tax, and they were under scrutiny by all the other gm's i dont think they wanted to make another lopsided trade

[2Cleva]

assets? what assets? the Lakers gave up assets?

Financial assets is often a factor to millionaires. You're looking at it as a fan of the game, not a number cruncher.

The books say that Memphis can win 36 games and pay someone an average of nearly $16 mil over 4 years or they can deal him for last year contracts, hope to get some more ping-pong balls in the lottery that they are already heading to and maybe get better in 3-5 years when some of the teams dominating the West fall off due to age. Not to mention make it easier to sell the team.

[turiaf for president]

assets? what assets? the Lakers gave up assets?

future pg in j critt, and 2 1st round pick. granted its not high picks but late 1st round picks in the league in recent years have turned out to be good players.

j critt didnt play much this year but at 6'5" and 19 years old, he was the 2nd PG prospect after conley jr last year.

granted its not pau gasol but j critt was highly thought of.

plus in 3 years when all these players come around, the suns mavs spurs and rockets will all be old and in their minds have lost a step or two

[WCFBaby]

Oh Jesus. Can't you fucking read?

I asked for "proof" you fucking dolt!

[MadDog73]

If Gasol tanks, and the Lakers lose, will it still be considered a good trade?

[Commissioner Stern]

You pulled off a trade that benefitted your team. How dare you. Waah.

[thispego]

yes. it will just further prove that you can't get to the 'ship by taking shortcuts. no matter how much time you save.

[thispego]

crump

***REMINDER***

[lefty]

Yay

[z0sa]

The only way the Pau Gasol trade is legit is if Marc Gasol develops into a similar beast .. otherwise, some sort of trade commission should've been set up in response to this.

In other words, a trade commission should've been set up.

This is like Spurs doing Ian Mahinmi and George Hill for Pau .. almost exactly .. cheating ass League. More and more, because of shit like this and the bullshit refs who never call jack for Tim Duncan, I am moving away from even caring about the NBA. The Spurs yes, but the NBA doesn't even hide how much they want a high ratings finals, not a "best against the best" type of contest.

[thispego]

everytime i see gasol being interviewed and asked how he feels to be fotunate enough to be a part of this lakers team, i laugh.

[ClingingMars]

wow. this is an epic thread.

-Mars

[turiaf for president]

The only way the Pau Gasol trade is legit is if Marc Gasol develops into a similar beast .. otherwise, some sort of trade commission should've been set up in response to this.

In other words, a trade commission should've been set up.

This is like Spurs doing Ian Mahinmi and George Hill for Pau .. almost exactly .. cheating ass League. More and more, because of shit like this and the bullshit refs who never call jack for Tim Duncan, I am moving away from even caring about the NBA. The Spurs yes, but the NBA doesn't even hide how much they want a high ratings finals, not a "best against the best" type of contest.

not even close. you guys seem to forget this is a business. most owners are concerned about money. only those who are dedicated are thinking about winning a ring. in any given year, only aboue 5-7 teams actually have a shot at winning the ring. memphis wasnt going to be in that group anytime soon. so they took a couple young guys, couple 1st round picks, but more importantly to that organization, they got 60 million dollars off the books. the spurs didnt have a 10 million dollar expiring contract, and marc gasol was in the international spotlight for a few years so the grizzlies knew how capable the was going to be. hes averaging over 11 points and 7 boards as a rookie. mahinmi???? wut is he a magician?

[thispego]

not even close. you guys seem to forget this is a business. most owners are concerned about money. only those who are dedicated are thinking about winning a ring. in any given year, only aboue 5-7 teams actually have a shot at winning the ring. memphis wasnt going to be in that group anytime soon. so they took a couple young guys, couple 1st round picks, but more importantly to that organization, they got 60 million dollars off the books. the spurs didnt have a 10 million dollar expiring contract, and marc gasol was in the international spotlight for a few years so the grizzlies knew how capable the was going to be. hes averaging over 11 points and 7 boards as a rookie. mahinmi???? wut is he a magician?

actually that's exactly what it was like. Gasol for some guys that had never played an NBA game. oh yeah... + kwame brown!!!! LOL

and those two 1st round picks will be shit. they knew when they were giving away gasol that it ould put LA over the top and assure them one of the best records in the league.

Anyways... yes... jerry west and the grizzlies knew what they were doing when they gave gasol to la for nothing.

[turiaf for president]

and look at what marc is doing! hes easily a starting center on the spurs. and kwame brown was HUGE. his contract was the center of this deal. if the spurs had a 10 million dollar expiring contract and a top pg propect in the draft (which javaris was in the 2007 draft) im sure they would have guaged the interest of mem. and yes those picks werent gona be lottery bound, but there are plenty of late 1st rnd 2nd rnd picks that are stars in the nba. you guys should know, ginobli, parker, redd, boozer, arenas, monta ellis, etc etc

and get over jerry west giving him to la, he wasnt the GM for either team at the time of the trade. even if he was, more power to the lakers.

[WayOutWest]

and look at what marc is doing! hes easily a starting center on the spurs. and kwame brown was HUGE. his contract was the center of this deal. if the spurs had a 10 million dollar expiring contract and a top pg propect in the draft (which javaris was in the 2007 draft) im sure they would have guaged the interest of mem. and yes those picks werent gona be lottery bound, but there are plenty of late 1st rnd 2nd rnd picks that are stars in the nba. you guys should know, ginobli, parker, redd, boozer, arenas, monta ellis, etc etc

and get over jerry west giving him to la, he wasnt the GM for either team at the time of the trade. even if he was, more power to the lakers.

There was an article about the top 10 Deals that were as good or better for the Griz than the Lakers. One of them was the Spurs but the comments from the Griz GM were that no other teams showed interest until AFTER the Lakers deal went down.

[z0sa]

and look at what marc is doing! hes easily a starting center on the spurs. and kwame brown was HUGE. his contract was the center of this deal.

Kwame Brown, you mean the one playing in Detroit now? He sure did a lot for the Grizzlies. They definitely needed his defensive capabilities.

Going on to reality, the three sentences I just stated above are my reasoning more or less for a trade commission. They didn't want Kwame Brown, they wanted his expiring contract. The rest were just throwins, nothing more, and Marc Gasol at that point was just as unproven as Mahinmi is now.

So in reality, GHill + Ian Mahinmi + Oberto/Thomas would probably be the Pau Gasol trade for us, plus picks but who needs picks when you're going to be on top of the WC for at least 3 years with that move ..

[turiaf for president]

as good or better according to who? im not the gm or the owner but by all accounts, he seems like he was looking to shave salary. the trade of miller to the wolves further proves that. im sure they had better deals are far as talent, but no expiring contract of 10 mil

[turiaf for president]

Kwame Brown, you mean the one playing in Detroit now? He sure did a lot for the Grizzlies. They definitely needed his defensive capabilities.

Going on to reality, the three sentences I just stated above are my reasoning more or less for a trade commission. They didn't want Kwame Brown, they wanted his expiring contract. The rest were just throwins, nothing more, and Marc Gasol at that point was just as unproven as Mahinmi is now.

So in reality, GHill + Ian Mahinmi + Oberto/Thomas would probably be the Pau Gasol trade for us, plus picks but who needs picks when you're going to be on top of the WC for at least 3 years with that move ..

yea that woulda been a similar trade but heres another big issue. (well big to most teams) they are in the same division. teams rarely trade within the division. ever.

[ClingingMars]

lmao @ lakerfans STILL trying to defend the Gasol trade. it was a FUCKING SCAM, and you got the Finals with it, accept it, embrace it.

-Mars

[turiaf for president]

your right no need to defend. its more like LMAO at spurs fans still bitching about a trade that helped they biggest rival in the past decade

[z0sa]

as good or better according to who? im not the gm or the owner but by all accounts, he seems like he was looking to shave salary. the trade of miller to the wolves further proves that. im sure they had better deals are far as talent, but no expiring contract of 10 mil

So you agree there should be a trade commission then, rather than owners pawning off their bad decisions to make another team incomparably better while losing millions of fans respect and cash for the NBA. Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind many other teams besides just spurs were questioning that move. Any team, even lottery bound, would be a playoff contender if they could trade similar pieces (pieces that would not be even utilized for another season, minimum, and may never pan out) for a Pau Gasol.

Keep on dreaming LA didn't just get gifted because of their huge TV market. I'm sure Stern was personally supervising this trade to make sure it happened some how, some way, and I'm not even joking.

[DaBears]

What about a trade for either Manu or TP for Detroits Tashaun Prince and a BIG.

[turiaf for president]

So you agree there should be a trade commission then, rather than owners pawning off their bad decisions to make another team incomparably better while losing millions of fans respect and cash for the NBA. Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind many other teams besides just spurs were questioning that move. Any team, even lottery bound, would be a playoff contender if they could trade similar pieces (pieces that would not be even utilized for another season, minimum, and may never pan out) for a Pau Gasol.

Keep on dreaming LA didn't just get gifted because of their huge TV market.

no i dont agree on a trade commission. teams trade for expiring contracts every year. just like the knicks did with randolph, heat trying to do with marion, etc. its up to the GM's to do whats best for your team. if that doesnt happen, he gets fired.

[ClingingMars]

your right no need to defend. its more like LMAO at spurs fans still bitching about a trade that helped they biggest rival in the past decade

it's ok, just keep livin in your fantasy world :lol

[z0sa]

no i dont agree on a trade commission. teams trade for expiring contracts every year. just like the knicks did with randolph, heat trying to do with marion, etc. its up to the GM's to do whats best for your team. if that doesnt happen, he gets fired.

Trading for expiring contracts rarely has such a talent gap and plethora of unknown players. Nice try though. That's not good GMing, in fact, if you had a good GM you'd have a normally built team of Shaq and Kobe still around.

[temujin]

and look at what marc is doing! hes easily a starting center on the spurs. and kwame brown was HUGE. his contract was the center of this deal. if the spurs had a 10 million dollar expiring contract and a top pg propect in the draft (which javaris was in the 2007 draft) im sure they would have guaged the interest of mem. and yes those picks werent gona be lottery bound, but there are plenty of late 1st rnd 2nd rnd picks that are stars in the nba. you guys should know, ginobli, parker, redd, boozer, arenas, monta ellis, etc etc

and get over jerry west giving him to la, he wasnt the GM for either team at the time of the trade. even if he was, more power to the lakers.

We all know what happened.
West told the owner of Memphis that they were getting a great player in Brown, save money and keep Gasol.
Only, he wouldn't mention it was Marc.

[z0sa]

yea that woulda been a similar trade but heres another big issue. (well big to most teams) they are in the same division. teams rarely trade within the division. ever.

They were looking to dump salary any way possible, like trade away a legit all-star for some unknown, yet they'd care they gave them away to a division opponent who will surely have them beat for the next 5 years regardless of the trade going through or not ..

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If they were caring about winning, I could see your point. But thats the opposite of what they wanted. The owner wasn't ready to lose 20+ million dollars last season.

[turiaf for president]

Trading for expiring contracts rarely has such a talent gap and plethora of unknown players. Nice try though. That's not good GMing, in fact, if you had a good GM you'd have a normally built team of Shaq and Kobe still around.

we do have excellent front office staffs. if we still had kobe and shaq around, we prolly would have won 1 more ring. but imagine if we had shaq now. that means no lottery pick for drew, no odom, no gasol. shaq's advance age would be injured and kobe would be 32 by the time shaqs contract expired. then wut? no shaq and a old kobe = lottery bound for at least a good 4-5 years. just look at the celtics after bird and mchale retired. they lived with dana barros, and dino radja

[z0sa]

do we have excellent front office staffs. if we still had kobe and shaq around, we prolly would have won 1 more ring. but imagine if we had shaq now. that means no lottery pick for drew, no odom, no gasol. shaq's advance age would be injured and kobe would be 32 by the time shaqs contract expired. then wut? no shaq and a old kobe = lottery bound for at least a good 4-5 years. just look at the celtics after bird and mchale retired. they lived with dana barros, and dino radja

No one is saying the Lakers are of course better now than if theyd have kept shaq, but it doesn't change the fact your GM has some good luck rolling down hill on him .. Pau Gasol IMO is the only thing you need to say he wasn't really doing great, because Cupchak had little to do with the trade - I doubt he'd have ever even offered it, had the Grizzlies just been another losing team trying to rebuild instead of a near expansionary team losing tens of millions of dollars with no chance of rebuilding for 2 or more years.

If the Pau trade doesn't happen, LA continues its former course of mediocrity, and Kobe is never compared to Jordan again.

[turiaf for president]

They were looking to dump salary any way possible, like trade away a legit all-star for some unknown, yet they'd care they gave them away to a division opponent who will surely have them beat for the next 5 years regardless of the trade going through or not ..

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If they were caring about winning, I could see your point. But thats the opposite of what they wanted. The owner wasn't ready to lose 20+ million dollars last season.


agreed but heres the grizzlies perspective. we are dumping salary for a couple picks and unproven players. there are 2 teams that have similar offers in the spurs and lakers. one plays in our division one doesnt. we dont care, we just want a salary dump. 2 similar deals. why would we trade in our division? if its a similar / same deal wouldnt trading away from your division give you that extra edge? if you say no you're lying

[turiaf for president]

No one is saying the Lakers are of course better now than if theyd have kept shaq, but it doesn't change the fact your GM has some good luck rolling down hill on him .. Pau Gasol IMO is the only thing you need to say he wasn't really doing great, because Cupchak had little to do with the trade - I doubt he'd have ever even offered it, had the Grizzlies just been another losing team trying to rebuild instead of a near expansionary team losing tens of millions of dollars with no chance of rebuilding for 2 or more years.
If the Pau trade doesn't happen, LA continues its former course of mediocrity, and Kobe is never compared to Jordan again.

maybe so, but again its his job to look for opportunities like this. it may have been all memphis trying to dump salary but the lakers were the only team with, here it is again......a big expiring contract. GMs need alot of skills and knowledge but sometimes it IS the luck of the draw. whether its drafting unproven played in the later pics in the draft, or having something the other gms want (10 million dollars)

[z0sa]

agreed but heres the grizzlies perspective. we are dumping salary for a couple picks and unproven players. there are 2 teams that have similar offers in the spurs and lakers. one plays in our division one doesnt. we dont care, we just want a salary dump. 2 similar deals. why would we trade in our division? if its a similar / same deal wouldnt trading away from your division give you that extra edge? if you say no you're lying

I wasn't disagreeing with your point, like I said if they cared about winning, it makes perfect sense. But the Spurs were going to own the Grizzlies regardless of what happened, I mean think about it Spurs are 4-0 this season against the Grizzlies (just guessing the latter won't make the playoffs), and thats with that Kevin love for Oj Mayo steal of a trade. Without Oj Mayo, they'd probably be on the Thunder's level in terms of talent and chemistry.

The main point I was trying to make is that the spurs trade I mentioned (GHill + Mahinmi + Oberto and/or Thomas) for Pau is such highway robbery its sickening. I mean, Pau probably has quadruple the stats compared to Oberto and Thomas combined, and Mahinmi is just as unproven and could actually be better than Marc Gasol. GHill has already proven a rotation player on a championship winning squad, and would probably be a top 5 rookie on a shit team - I say this because I honestly think the trade I specified is much better than the one they accepted from LA..

Would I have loved it to happen for my team? Yes, but never would I reasonably expect or bank on something like this happening ever, to any team. Since it did, the L should have set up a trade commission.

But they didn't. Why? Because it was their precious Lakers and their huge tv market which pulled off the move.

[Mike Smrek]

You've had more than a year to let it sink in, and some of you nitwits still don't get it, do you? The Grizzlies weren't trying to make an even swap in terms of talent. It was a salary dump, pure and simple.

They locked themselves into a huge long-term contract with Gasol, giving him superstar money to be the cornerstone of the franchise.

If Gasol is your No. 2 guy, you're cooking with gas. If he's your No. 1, you're destined to suffer the same fate they'd already been suffering -- getting their asses swept in the first round. Considering the market they were in, with the skin-flint owner they've got, they were never going to going to be able to pay another player more money. (If you've only got the money for one, who would you rather give it to, O.J. Mayo or Pau Gasol? I thought so.)

Gasol was it, and they weren't going anywhere with him. So they got him off the books, landed a few young prospects and draft picks and started over from scratch. Could they have gotten more from somebody else? Absolutely. But their GM Chris Wallace -- NOT JERRY WEST -- was terrible in Boston, so why should he have been any different in Memphis?

In the aftermath it sounded as if he simply didn't do his due dilligence in terms of fully exploring his options. But even if he had, how many franchises in the NBA have the resources to pay a second fiddle like Gasol $17 or 18 million? It's a short list -- New York, Dallas, Portland, Cleveland, Denver, probably a few more that I'm overlooking.

Not even Chicago, whose owner refuses to pay the luxury tax, would have brought him on. Certainly not the Spurs.

So if some of you think that L.A. fans are going to somehow feel ashamed that we pulled this off, you couldn't be any more wrong, or stupid for that matter. Hell, it's exactly because of situations like this that I love being a Laker fan. Our fans have incredibly high expectations, and we have a franchise equipped to meet them. That's freaking beautiful.

And regarding the NBA being rigged -- Spurs fans should know more than anyone that this is simply not true. Otherwise, why in God's name would the NBA have delivered, against substantial mathematical odds, one of the most coveted draft prospects in NBA history to one of their smallest, least important franchises when they had teams in flagship markets waiting to get their hands on him?

This has happened to the Spurs not once but twice in the past two decades, in which they had a 20% and 16% chance to land the top pick in drafts in which David Robinson and Tim Duncan were available. Yet all some of you can do is pat yourself on the back about how the Spurs do things the right way, and whine like little bitches about how unfair the NBA is.

Get the fuck out.

[turiaf for president]

anyways spurs fans keep bringing up this trade is getting old. it was a great deal for the lakers, and it has worked out for the grizzlies as well. they have a young center, 3 1st round picks and salary space to sign a high profile free agent once gasol, mayo, and gay all develop into nice players

[turiaf for president]

I wasn't disagreeing with your point, like I said if they cared about winning, it makes perfect sense. But the Spurs were going to own the Grizzlies regardless of what happened, I mean think about it Spurs are 4-0 this season against the Grizzlies (just guessing the latter won't make the playoffs), and thats with that Kevin love for Oj Mayo steal of a trade. Without Oj Mayo, they'd probably be on the Thunder's level in terms of talent and chemistry.

The main point I was trying to make is that the spurs trade I mentioned (GHill + Mahinmi + Oberto and/or Thomas) for Pau is such highway robbery its sickening. I mean, Pau probably has quadruple the stats compared to Oberto and Thomas combined, and Mahinmi is just as unproven and could actually be better than Marc Gasol. GHill has already proven a rotation player on a championship winning squad, and would probably be a top 5 rookie on a shit team. Would I have loved it to happen for my team? Yes, but never would I reasonably expect or bank on something like this happening ever, to any team. Since it did, the L should have set up a trade commission.
But they didn't. Why? Because it was their precious Lakers and their huge tv market which pulled off the move.

and im saying these trades happen every year at the trade deadline..... but since everyone else in the league hates the lakers, people complain when the rich get richer. if the league wants to get rid of lob sided trades, they should get rid of the salary cap. that way poor teams never even sign high contracts to begin with....... and no im not in favor of getting rid of the salary cap in the nba

[sedale threatt]

duncan looked a whole lot better against gasol yesterday than he did against young andrew bynum. on both ends of the floor. gasol is great, the lakers got a good deal on him, but he's not the reason that the lakers/spurs rivalry is going to be one-sided for many years.

[turiaf for president]

You've had more than a year to let it sink in, and some of you nitwits still don't get it, do you? The Grizzlies weren't trying to make an even swap in terms of talent. It was a salary dump, pure and simple.

They locked themselves into a huge long-term contract with Gasol, giving him superstar money to be the cornerstone of the franchise.

If Gasol is your No. 2 guy, you're cooking with gas. If he's your No. 1, you're destined to suffer the same fate they'd already been suffering -- getting their asses swept in the first round. Considering the market they were in, with the skin-flint owner they've got, they were never going to going to be able to pay another player more money. (If you've only got the money for one, who would you rather give it to, O.J. Mayo or Pau Gasol? I thought so.)

Gasol was it, and they weren't going anywhere with him. So they got him off the books, landed a few young prospects and draft picks and started over from scratch. Could they have gotten more from somebody else? Absolutely. But their GM Chris Wallace -- NOT JERRY WEST -- was terrible in Boston, so why should he have been any different in Memphis?

In the aftermath it sounded as if he simply didn't do his due dilligence in terms of fully exploring his options. But even if he had, how many franchises in the NBA have the resources to pay a second fiddle like Gasol $17 or 18 million? It's a short list -- New York, Dallas, Portland, Cleveland, Denver, probably a few more that I'm overlooking.

Not even Chicago, whose owner refuses to pay the luxury tax, would have brought him on. Certainly not the Spurs.

So if some of you think that L.A. fans are going to somehow feel ashamed that we pulled this off, you couldn't be any more wrong, or stupid for that matter. Hell, it's exactly because of situations like this that I love being a Laker fan. Our fans have incredibly high expectations, and we have a franchise equipped to meet them. That's freaking beautiful.

And regarding the NBA being rigged -- Spurs fans should know more than anyone that this is simply not true. Otherwise, why in God's name would the NBA have delivered, against substantial mathematical odds, one of the most coveted draft prospects in NBA history to one of their smallest, least important franchises when they had teams in flagship markets waiting to get their hands on him?

This has happened to the Spurs not once but twice in the past two decades, in which they had a 20% and 16% chance to land the top pick in drafts in which David Robinson and Tim Duncan were available. Yet all some of you can do is pat yourself on the back about how the Spurs do things the right way, and whine like little bitches about how unfair the NBA is.

Get the fuck out.

i think sosa knows that. he just wants the League to make a trade commitee to not let lopsided trades happen.

[DaBears]

Its not old when thats how you stay competitive in a small market if you dont know that educate your self. I dont see the lakers having a problem or the other 28 teams having a problem with it.

[z0sa]

You've had more than a year to let it sink in, and some of you nitwits still don't get it, do you? The Grizzlies weren't trying to make an even swap in terms of talent. It was a salary dump, pure and simple.

They locked themselves into a huge long-term contract with Gasol, giving him superstar money to be the cornerstone of the franchise.

If Gasol is your No. 2 guy, you're cooking with gas. If he's your No. 1, you're destined to suffer the same fate they'd already been suffering -- getting their asses swept in the first round. Considering the market they were in, with the skin-flint owner they've got, they were never going to going to be able to pay another player more money. (If you've only got the money for one, who would you rather give it to, O.J. Mayo or Pau Gasol? I thought so.)

Gasol was it, and they weren't going anywhere with him. So they got him off the books, landed a few young prospects and draft picks and started over from scratch. Could they have gotten more from somebody else? Absolutely. But their GM Chris Wallace -- NOT JERRY WEST -- was terrible in Boston, so why should he have been any different in Memphis?

In the aftermath it sounded as if he simply didn't do his due dilligence in terms of fully exploring his options. But even if he had, how many franchises in the NBA have the resources to pay a second fiddle like Gasol $17 or 18 million? It's a short list -- New York, Dallas, Portland, Cleveland, Denver, probably a few more that I'm overlooking.

Not even Chicago, whose owner refuses to pay the luxury tax, would have brought him on. Certainly not the Spurs.

So if some of you think that L.A. fans are going to somehow feel ashamed that we pulled this off, you couldn't be any more wrong, or stupid for that matter. Hell, it's exactly because of situations like this that I love being a Laker fan. Our fans have incredibly high expectations, and we have a franchise equipped to meet them. That's freaking beautiful.

And regarding the NBA being rigged -- Spurs fans should know more than anyone that this is simply not true. Otherwise, why in God's name would the NBA have delivered, against substantial mathematical odds, one of the most coveted draft prospects in NBA history to one of their smallest, least important franchises when they had teams in flagship markets waiting to get their hands on him?

This has happened to the Spurs not once but twice in the past two decades, in which they had a 20% and 16% chance to land the top pick in drafts in which David Robinson and Tim Duncan were available. Yet all some of you can do is pat yourself on the back about how the Spurs do things the right way, and whine like little bitches about how unfair the NBA is.

Get the fuck out.

The draft is luck, the Gasol trade was not luck. Additionally, "salary dumping" should not be a viable trade reason, which is why there should be a trade commission.

[DaBears]

As a fan you want your team to WIN.

[Lakers_55]

No one called collusion about the trade until Pop complained publicly. There were two threads started here at Spurstalk within a minute of each other. Neither one started that way, although timvp says his calls collusion when it doesn't. His thread title says "Gasol traded to Lakers for nothing", and that means collusion. "Nothing" is an opinion, that equal value wasn't met in return. Collusion is something illegal. However, the damage is done, people will always believe fiction.

[z0sa]

As a fan you want your team to WIN.

I wanted to say this too ... the Grizzlies franchise' salary dump was a total slap in the face to their meager helping of fans. They had a 50 win season back in 04 and were well on their way to being a contender with the team they had at that point ..

[temujin]

no i dont agree on a trade commission. teams trade for expiring contracts every year. just like the knicks did with randolph, heat trying to do with marion, etc. its up to the GM's to do whats best for your team. if that doesnt happen, he gets fired.

Correct.

And West indeed did what was best for YOUR team.

The decision of a trade commission should have been made based on scant evidence of West asking ANYBODY -but the Lakers- interested in Gasol.

[turiaf for president]

Correct.

And West indeed did what was best for YOUR team.

The decision of a trade commission should have been made based on scant evidence of West asking ANYBODY -but the Lakers- interested in Gasol.

:rolleyes:whine

[thispego]

You've had more than a year to let it sink in, and some of you nitwits still don't get it, do you? The Grizzlies weren't trying to make an even swap in terms of talent. It was a salary dump, pure and simple.

They locked themselves into a huge long-term contract with Gasol, giving him superstar money to be the cornerstone of the franchise.

If Gasol is your No. 2 guy, you're cooking with gas. If he's your No. 1, you're destined to suffer the same fate they'd already been suffering -- getting their asses swept in the first round. Considering the market they were in, with the skin-flint owner they've got, they were never going to going to be able to pay another player more money. (If you've only got the money for one, who would you rather give it to, O.J. Mayo or Pau Gasol? I thought so.)

Gasol was it, and they weren't going anywhere with him. So they got him off the books, landed a few young prospects and draft picks and started over from scratch. Could they have gotten more from somebody else? Absolutely. But their GM Chris Wallace -- NOT JERRY WEST -- was terrible in Boston, so why should he have been any different in Memphis?

In the aftermath it sounded as if he simply didn't do his due dilligence in terms of fully exploring his options. But even if he had, how many franchises in the NBA have the resources to pay a second fiddle like Gasol $17 or 18 million? It's a short list -- New York, Dallas, Portland, Cleveland, Denver, probably a few more that I'm overlooking.

Not even Chicago, whose owner refuses to pay the luxury tax, would have brought him on. Certainly not the Spurs.

So if some of you think that L.A. fans are going to somehow feel ashamed that we pulled this off, you couldn't be any more wrong, or stupid for that matter. Hell, it's exactly because of situations like this that I love being a Laker fan. Our fans have incredibly high expectations, and we have a franchise equipped to meet them. That's freaking beautiful.

And regarding the NBA being rigged -- Spurs fans should know more than anyone that this is simply not true. Otherwise, why in God's name would the NBA have delivered, against substantial mathematical odds, one of the most coveted draft prospects in NBA history to one of their smallest, least important franchises when they had teams in flagship markets waiting to get their hands on him?

This has happened to the Spurs not once but twice in the past two decades, in which they had a 20% and 16% chance to land the top pick in drafts in which David Robinson and Tim Duncan were available. Yet all some of you can do is pat yourself on the back about how the Spurs do things the right way, and whine like little bitches about how unfair the NBA is.

Get the fuck out.


haha and you've had more than a year to formulate a non-collusionary spin. Seriously, cool for the lakers that it only took them one yearof mediocrity to jump back to the top of the conference and the league... at the cost of sullying any future (potential) championships. If it were me and my team? I'd rather go about building a championship team the olllld fashioned way. It'd feel dirty and cheap to acquire an all-star player for nothing and succeed as a result of it.

[temujin]

No one called collusion about the trade until Pop complained publicly. There we two threads started here at Spurstalk within a minute of each other. Neither one started that way, although timvp says his calls collusion when it doesn't. His thread title says "Gasol traded to Lakers for nothing", and that means collusion. "Nothing" is an opnion, that equal value wasn't met in return. Collusion is something illegal. However, the damage is done, people will always believe fiction.

People believe in common sense, more often than not.

A commission on the trade was asked publicly by Popovich, voicing a widespread "discomfort" in the league.

This would have actually cleared up the situation.

The several GMs West tried to convince to accept Gasol would have confirmed they weren't interested.
And the Lakers would have come up as Memphis' saviours.

Too bad no commission was called.....

[thispego]

However, the damage is done, people will always believe fiction.

yeah you los angelenes are delusional. well... not all of you.........

Originally Posted by lakerfan Tradition

"From an NBA fans standpoint, Id say it was a robbery trade "

Originally Posted by lakerfan Medvedenko

"Was it robbery yup, but well within the rules. "

Originally Posted by lakerfan Critter

"yes we know we made out in the trade "


etc etc

[Mike Smrek]

haha and you've had more than a year to formulate a non-collusionary spin. Seriously, cool for the lakers that it only took them one yearof mediocrity to jump back to the top of the conference and the league... at the cost of sullying any future (potential) championships. If it were me and my team? I'd rather go about building a championship team the olllld fashioned way. It'd feel dirty and cheap to acquire an all-star player for nothing and succeed as a result of it.


Bullshit. It was patently obvious when it happened. Anybody with half a brain knew what was going on. But if you're a whiny little bitch who wants to use conspiracy theories to make yourself feel better about your team's shortcomings, then logic obviously need not be applied.

[thispego]

Bullshit. It was patently obvious when it happened. Anybody with half a brain knew what was going on. But if you're a whiny little bitch who wants to use conspiracy theories to make yourself feel better about your team's shortcomings, then logic obviously need not be applied.

who's theorizing? facts are facts. my team has no shortcomings other than the fact that they wont cheat to win, but i consider that a strength.

[Lakers_55]

yeah you los angelenes are delusional. well... not all of you.........

Originally Posted by lakerfan Tradition

"From an NBA fans standpoint, Id say it was a robbery trade "

Originally Posted by lakerfan Medvedenko

"Was it robbery yup, but well within the rules. "

Originally Posted by lakerfan Critter

"yes we know we made out in the trade "


etc etc


Anyone that knows me here knows I am not delusional. I look at evidence. No internet tirade of collusion came until Pop complained publicly, and I stand by that.

Search thread titles with Gasol in title here and in BBall central and see for yourself. If anyone is delusional it is you. We made a good trade, so have a million other teams.

[thispego]

Anyone that knows me here knows I am not delusional. I look at evidence. No internet tirade of collusion came until Pop complained publicly, and I stand by that.

Search thread titles with Gasol in title here and in BBall central and see for yourself. If anyone is delusional it is you. We made a good trade, so have a million other teams.

lol are there millions of other teams? delusion * everyone's doing it! *

Pop bitched about the trade like the day it happened. Just because you only logged on to lakersground and espn.com that day doesnt mean everyone else wasnt calling bullshit

[2Cleva]

Why continue to argue this Laker fans? LA got over and pimped Memphis. People are going to complain about this trade forever. Just smile and nod and hopefully point to the ring count that results.

LA didn't make Memphis make this trade. Even though West was gone, the fact LA had a good relationship with Memphis helped - as it does throughout the league when teams make trades (case in point SA getting Barry back after dealing him for Kurt Thomas).

LA got over on talent. Memphis got what they wanted money wise so the owner can come closer to selling the team. No need to apologize for pimping in my book. It's hard out there afterall.

:hat

[z0sa]

Anyone that knows me here knows I am not delusional. I look at evidence. No internet tirade of collusion came until Pop complained publicly, and I stand by that.

Search thread titles with Gasol in title here and in BBall central and see for yourself. If anyone is delusional it is you. We made a good trade, so have a million other teams.

I like you as a poster, the most solid minded Lakerfan on this board, but sorry.. No. A good trade is supposed to benefit both teams, like an old scale - the pieces on either side must be even. The Grizzlies were not planning on the future with the pieces they received, in fact, they are all gone now except for the picks if I;m not mistaken, and Marc of course. So you say Salary Dumping? That should not be allowed, too one sided and bad for the League, just because its your team that got the benefit shouldn't cloud your judgment.

[Mike Smrek]

Correct.

And West indeed did what was best for YOUR team.

The decision of a trade commission should have been made based on scant evidence of West asking ANYBODY -but the Lakers- interested in Gasol.

This post is indicative of the idiocy that's being bandied about in this thread. Jerry West retired before the 2007-08 season. Chris Wallace was and is the GM who was responsible for that transaction. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

[21_Blessings]

^^ Zosa just keep digging yourself in a deeper hole.

Marc Gasol is 23 (future) and already a solid starter in the league. They drafted Darrel Arthur age 20 (future) with the Lakers 1st rounder. They still have two Laker draft picks yet to use (future).

And then there's the cap space (future). Considering 2010 is the BIGGEST FREE AGENT SIGNING OFF SEASON EVER that's a big deal. Without Gasol's bloated contract Memphis will be in the mix to sign a high impact free agent.

Your point about Memphis being contenders with Pau is laughable. They overachieved after Jerry West built a team that had basically nothing with solid role players but they had no upside nor any chance at making legitimate noise in the playoffs. Which is why the team was blown up. That is how you successfully rebuild. Perennial 1st round exits is the worst thing possible (see: Minnesota).

[Mike Smrek]

The draft is luck, the Gasol trade was not luck. Additionally, "salary dumping" should not be a viable trade reason, which is why there should be a trade commission.

Absolutely it was luck. Credit to the Spurs for taking advantage and building on it.

I was merely using the Robinson and Duncan drafts to illustrate the foolishness of conspiracy theories.

If the NBA was truly this Machiavellian organization, manipulating games and transaction from the shadows, do you think it makes much sense that franchise 7-footers would have ended up in San Antonio, one of the league's smallest and least important markets, rather than Los Angeles and Boston, two of the most important?

That NEVER would have happened if the NBA is indeed run the way many think it is.

And as for salary dumping, I agree to a point. If you're just a tight-ass like Donald Sterling, who has overseen one of the worst organizations in pro sports by refusing to spend money, then you deserve to be sanctioned in some manner. As a fan, the only recourse you have is to quit supporting the team.

But in Memphis' case, what were they supposed to do? They made a huge mistake in giving Gasol, a secondary star, a franchise contract. That deal was going to cripple their progress for years. They dumped him, started over and now have a decent young core with Mayo, Gay and young Gasol.

Look at it like a purging forest fire, in which the undergrowth and dead wood has to be burned off to promote new growth.

[thispego]

This post is indicative of the idiocy that's being bandied about in this thread. Jerry West retired before the 2007-08 season. Chris Wallace was and is the GM who was responsible for that transaction. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

jerry west requested of heisley that he hire failure of a gm chris wallace to replace him. jerry scratched wallaces back, what did wallace do for jerry?? just sayin. just cause jerry's not on the payroll doesn't mean he's got nothing to do with it

[thispego]

I was merely using the Robinson and Duncan drafts to illustrate the foolishness of conspiracy theories.

If the NBA was truly this Machiavellian organization, manipulating games and transaction from the shadows, do you think it makes much sense that franchise 7-footers would have ended up in San Antonio, one of the league's smallest and least important markets, rather than Los Angeles and Boston, two of the most important?

That NEVER would have happened if the NBA is indeed run the way many think it is.

if EVERYTHING is manipulated then people with catch on. you manipulate just enough so that you achieve your desired result often enough then people might not catch on. la fans are stupid delusional sheep, fat and happy sheep, but stupid and delusional.