So Tired...

[Soul_Patch]

Jesus Christ i am so tired of the Amazing Disapearing Manu...


I know ill get reamed for this, because there are a lot of you who think he walks on water, but you cannot just completely disapear from game to game, and be considered a super star.


Not only does Manu disapear when he has a bad game, he pulls everyone in with him. Throws ridiculous passes, has more turn overs than pts, takes bad shots to try and force his game usually leading to points the other way...it just all around blows and REALLY kills our momentum.

What is even worse is POP will NOT take him out of the game. Hell he took Barry out of the game, when Barry was single handedly keeping us in it for Manu, who hadn't had a FG all game long...Someone explain this to me?

Look, i think Manu is a fantastic player and has more heart than 90% of the NBA combined...but rest this fucker...ESPECIALLY when he is single handedly destroying a game. He doesnt know when to stop, i guess you could say he tries too hard, and it hurts us sometimes. He obviously wasnt going to magically reapear last night, and the fact that he was in the game in crunch time was just wrong. he was just another black hole on our offense yesterday.

The Spurs are relying so much on streaky shooters to carry the game...If those shooters arent hitting, which chances are, they arent...we cant do shit because no one else can score...I truly hope, if we loose this series, or even if we dont, they give this roster some long hard looks this off season, and try and diversify this team and come back with a fresh look.

[VaSpursFan]

true, manu was a no show. he's far too reliant on the 3 point shot now. if he doesn't want to drive, i'd rather he dribble in and take a mid range jumper. get to a sweet spot and drain it.

[Ghost Writer]

You can't love Manu for leading the Spurs to their only win in this series and then throw him under the bus for the losses.

Be fair.

[oligarchy]

Blame Pop for not pulling him out..

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm in agreement with some points only - it seems you are throwing him under the bus a little bit but I understand that.. He played horribly and has a big part of the blame. The guy is spent at this point. When he's healthy he's just unstopable. The Lakers should feel lucky they are facing a really tired SA team this time around.

Now talking about hard looks to the roster next year - don't expect manu to be gone.

[kace]

You can't love Manu for leading the Spurs to their only win in this series and then throw him under the bus for the losses.

Be fair.

it was a win because when he had this good game, tim and tony had too a good game, making it a big three. when he has all his bad games in these PO, it's only a big 2 and it's not enough.

[Don Quixote]

I love Manu ... but if he can only bring it once in a while, then he's not of much use for us.

I'd take Vujacic or Fisher for him, straight-up.

[Nbadan]

I'd take Vujacic or Fisher for him, straight-up.

...and that's why your not in a NBA front office...

[TheProfessor]

Manu this year has been feast or famine. But I think Pop and especially lack of depth off the bench are equally to blame.

[WCFBaby]

It's obvious that Manu can not play with pain. The guy just has no guts! He's not a gamer!

[Killakobe81]

Manu for Sasha? done. plus I'll throw in a 2nd round pick ...
How about Ducan for Gasol? Ill take that as well...

[Typhoon]

Manu for Sasha? done. plus I'll throw in a 2nd round pick ...
How about Ducan for Gasol? Ill take that as well...

lol

[Mr.Franchize]

one game manu is god now hes trash? :downspin:

[Don Quixote]

Manu for Sasha? done. plus I'll throw in a 2nd round pick ...
How about Ducan for Gasol? Ill take that as well...

Duncan for Gasol is about the only deal I wouldn't take. Duncan's untouchable.


But I would take any, and I mean ANY, other player on the Lakers, for the Spur at the same position.
Manu, love him to death, has won us 3 titles, but he's finished as a big-time player. I'd swap him for Vujacic, someone who is young, not injured, and can make a jumper, straight-up.
Finley or Barry for Ariza, easily. Ariza would start here.
I'd take Radmonovich for Udoka, too.
Tony for Fisher. Fisher is clutch, Tony is good and sometimes clutch, but too easy to defend. And Fisher shoots way better -- you know his shot is going in.
Kobe for Bowen, obviously.

I'd take Odom, Gasol, or Bynum over any of our troika of Oberto/Horry/Thomas/Bonner.

The Lakers are just better, 1-12. Much, much better. The better team won the series.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Meh, you gotta take the good with the bad. It's tough to blame Pop for leaving him in because he's capable of going off at any second. How many times has he struggled early and finished strong?

I'm not absolving him from blame. He played like ass, but anyone talking about dealing him is smoking crack. Maybe he'll have a career showing in game 5. Maybe his legs will fall off on national television. That's one more reason why some consider him the most entertaining player in the game.

[MarceloM!]

Manu is a human being. A part of a team. When they lose , it's a team disgrace. Why put all responsabilities on one man? he got his bad days like us. Same thing happens with Tim and Tony. And, please, give Lakers a credit.

[pad300]

Duncan for Gasol is about the only deal I wouldn't take. Duncan's untouchable.


But I would take any, and I mean ANY, other player on the Lakers, for the Spur at the same position.
Manu, love him to death, has won us 3 titles, but he's finished as a big-time player. I'd swap him for Vujacic, someone who is young, not injured, and can make a jumper, straight-up.
Finley or Barry for Ariza, easily. Ariza would start here.
I'd take Radmonovich for Udoka, too.
Tony for Fisher. Fisher is clutch, Tony is good and sometimes clutch, but too easy to defend. And Fisher shoots way better -- you know his shot is going in.
Kobe for Bowen, obviously.

I'd take Odom, Gasol, or Bynum over any of our troika of Oberto/Horry/Thomas/Bonner.

The Lakers are just better, 1-12. Much, much better. The better team won the series.


You're nuts... If we replaced Gino with a guard who could give us a consistent 15/4/4 vs the lakers, we would be winning this series 3 to 1. If we found a below average starting SG, who could give us 12/3/3 in Gino's minutes, this series would be 2-2... If the rest of our roster were that bad, that simply would not be the case. Gino has sucked hard this series, but the rest of the roster is not completely busted (with the exception of Finley, who is cooked and has a spork sticking out of his back...).

[Don Quixote]

Exactly. You're saying what I'm saying. Replace Ginobili, who's had a great run, with Vujacic, and he'll get us a 15-4-4 consistently. And he's much younger and doesn't need all this *rest*. Vujacic is at least an average consistent player, as is pretty much everyone on L.A.'s roster. They sure got good in a hurry!

And the rest of the roster isn't even CLOSE to L.A.'s. I think I broke it down rather well. There's no one I wouldn't swap even-up for anyone on the Lakers at a similar position (except Duncan, and Gasol's not that far behind him).

[td4mvp21]

He has been consistent all season long and he's had trouble in the playoffs, yes. Whether it's from injury (he said it isn't) or from fatigue, or just having bad games, he hasn't been as consistent in the post season. It's hard to get too mad at him, he's done a lot for the Spurs.

But one thing I will never understand is why Manu and Finley get a free pass from Pop on defense. When Barry, Udoka, Bowen, Parker, even Duncan miss a defensive assignment or do bad on defense, Pop will yank them out of the game and/or yell at them. I've seldom seen him do that to Finley and Ginobili this season (I have never seen him yell at Finley). They were both awful last night on defense. There were a couple of times Ginobili didn't even contest Kobe's shots!

[dbreiden83080]

You can't love Manu for leading the Spurs to their only win in this series and then throw him under the bus for the losses.

Be fair.


All Manu had to do was be decent in this series and we would be up 3-1 right now. Tim has played well, Tony has played fine, we lost games 1 and 4 both very close games because he was 100% a no show.

[Soul_Patch]

All im asking for in Manu is some consistency. I've honestly thought this for years, and wasnt nor ever have been on the "Manu is GOD" bandwagon. When he is focused and healthy, he is ridiculously good, kobe bryant level good...but the main reason he will never be considered at that level is his complete lack of consistency.


At this point i would entertain the idea of trying to get a consistent SG (no not an old ass veteran) a young up and coming athletic SG with some upside...and put Manu out to pasture...

i hate saying, cause i really love the guy...and we all have bad days...but this is a competition, and we need to stay relevant...he is a good trade commodity right now...who knows what he will bring in the future.

I wouldnt be sayign this at all, if ALL he has was a bad shooting night...but when he has a bad night, it destroys the entire team effort...he throws turnovers, takes stupid shots, fouls at the wrong times....just completely looses all composure.

[JamStone]

Or you could be a Mavs fan, Suns fan, Kings fan, etc.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Duncan for Gasol is about the only deal I wouldn't take. Duncan's untouchable.


But I would take any, and I mean ANY, other player on the Lakers, for the Spur at the same position.
Manu, love him to death, has won us 3 titles, but he's finished as a big-time player. I'd swap him for Vujacic, someone who is young, not injured, and can make a jumper, straight-up.

Tony for Fisher. Fisher is clutch, Tony is good and sometimes clutch, but too easy to defend. And Fisher shoots way better -- you know his shot is going in.

The Lakers are just better, 1-12. Much, much better. The better team won the series.



I hope you are joking... otherwise you are an idiot.

[timvp]

There aren't ten players in the league I'd trade Manu for.

[Ghazi]

Duncan for Gasol is about the only deal I wouldn't take. Duncan's untouchable.


But I would take any, and I mean ANY, other player on the Lakers, for the Spur at the same position.
Manu, love him to death, has won us 3 titles, but he's finished as a big-time player. I'd swap him for Vujacic, someone who is young, not injured, and can make a jumper, straight-up.
Finley or Barry for Ariza, easily. Ariza would start here.
I'd take Radmonovich for Udoka, too.
Tony for Fisher. Fisher is clutch, Tony is good and sometimes clutch, but too easy to defend. And Fisher shoots way better -- you know his shot is going in.
Kobe for Bowen, obviously.

Oh c'mon, you use the argument that you'd swap Manu for Vujacic because he's younger, yet you'd also swap 25 year old Parker for 33 YO Fisher? Makes no sense.

Manu is better than Vujacic, Parker is better than Fisher. This is an "in the moment" post.

Vujacic is just as inconsistent as Manu.

I'd take Odom, Gasol, or Bynum over any of our troika of Oberto/Horry/Thomas/Bonner.

The Lakers are just better, 1-12. Much, much better. The better team won the series.

[Soul_Patch]

There aren't ten players in the league I'd trade Manu for.

id like to hear the reasoning behind this....honestly.


I respect your opinion and just cant see any rational fan not wanting some more consistency in that position. YES Manu is amazing sometimes, a lot of times...but wow...when he disapears or go's ape shit crazy with turn overs, fouls, etc...he really REALLY hurts us.

[DDS4]

I think the fact that the West was so damn tough this year, plus a nightmarish matchup with the Hornets going to 7 games pretty much sapped the whole team, especially Manu.

Pop had to put on the gas pedal early this year for fear of falling out of the top 8.

[Emeyin]

Duncan for Gasol is about the only deal I wouldn't take. Duncan's untouchable.


But I would take any, and I mean ANY, other player on the Lakers, for the Spur at the same position.
Manu, love him to death, has won us 3 titles, but he's finished as a big-time player. I'd swap him for Vujacic, someone who is young, not injured, and can make a jumper, straight-up.
Finley or Barry for Ariza, easily. Ariza would start here.
I'd take Radmonovich for Udoka, too.
Tony for Fisher. Fisher is clutch, Tony is good and sometimes clutch, but too easy to defend. And Fisher shoots way better -- you know his shot is going in.
Kobe for Bowen, obviously.

I'd take Odom, Gasol, or Bynum over any of our troika of Oberto/Horry/Thomas/Bonner.

The Lakers are just better, 1-12. Much, much better. The better team won the series.


This is ridiculous.

But regarding your original post I do agree if Manu just showed up even a little bit, the Spurs would be winning this series. I am pretty dissappointed in Manu, but I'm not trading him for anyone. Duncan and Parker are the only two stars that showed up for most of the games.

[imtehma]

There's no point in trying to throw up hypothetical situations like "if manu played consistently we'd be winning this series" simply because anyone can use that same excuse. Its like me saying The lakers would of swept teh series if Lamar and Fisher played Consistently. "If Andrew Bynum was playing then the lakers would of won each game by 20+." THe list goes on.

The fact is, the lakers did a great job of slowing him down. I beg you, rewatch these games and tell me everytime Manu touched the ball how often and fast a laker help defender got on him. IT was obviously the coaching job of the lakers that stopped MANU. It was Pop's fault for not adjusting to what PJ was doing.

Look at game 3 where Manu lit it up and the Spurs won. Obviously, Phil knew the Key was Manu.

[Soul_Patch]

This is ridiculous.

But regarding your original post I do agree if Manu just showed up even a little bit, the Spurs would be winning this series. I am pretty dissappointed in Manu, but I'm not trading him for anyone. Duncan and Parker are the only two stars that showed up for most of the games.

Spurs fans are so blindly loyal to their guys. If it was up to most spurs fans, we would run this team till they are 80 in wheel chairs because "we love our guys!!"

I understand the attachment too, BUT...face the facts...To compete you need consistency and potential. All of the spurs potential has already been reached and wecomnig down the back side, or in other cases, at the rock bottom of everyone on our active roster's career...It is time to start exploring other opportunities, or we will be a team of 20 year old draft picks with some 45yr old has beens winning 5 games a season and talking about the good ol days....

[DazedAndConfused]

You guys are nuts. Manu is injured, if healthy even I can admit the Spurs would probably be winning this series.

[ManuTastic]

id like to hear the reasoning behind this....honestly.


I respect your opinion and just cant see any rational fan not wanting some more consistency in that position. YES Manu is amazing sometimes, a lot of times...but wow...when he disapears or go's ape shit crazy with turn overs, fouls, etc...he really REALLY hurts us.

It really is Pop's fault. When your starting pitcher is loading the bases, you send in the reliever. When Manu is sucking because he's OBVIOUSLY gassed and limping, you sit him. Pop is not doing that because... well, I don't know why.

[Anti.Hero]

He's just resting for the olympics.

[Emanuel20]

He's just resting for the olympics.

:downspin:

[Emeyin]

There's no point in trying to throw up hypothetical situations like "if manu played consistently we'd be winning this series" simply because anyone can use that same excuse. Its like me saying The lakers would of swept teh series if Lamar and Fisher played Consistently. "If Andrew Bynum was playing then the lakers would of won each game by 20+." THe list goes on.

The fact is, the lakers did a great job of slowing him down. I beg you, rewatch these games and tell me everytime Manu touched the ball how often and fast a laker help defender got on him. IT was obviously the coaching job of the lakers that stopped MANU. It was Pop's fault for not adjusting to what PJ was doing.

Look at game 3 where Manu lit it up and the Spurs won. Obviously, Phil knew the Key was Manu.


I watched Manu play this entire season and since he joined the Spurs. There is obviously something wrong with him right now. I don't care how good the Lakers are guarding him, he isn't this ineffective. Also, the way he's being guarded doesn't affect his Defense or the other intangibles he usually brings to the game. Even when his shot isn't there he helps the team in other ways, and recently it's hurting the team than anything else.

[ChickHearnMic]

I like how Manu would come of the bench and kill but come on the dude is a bonafide Superstar!!!

I know Popp's strategy of making Manu come off the bench and lighting up the crowd. But that dude is too good to be a relief player.

Manu should be STARTING EVERY GAME!!

Any other team Manu would be on he is a certified Starter!!!!!!

[ChickHearnMic]

I love Manu ... but if he can only bring it once in a while, then he's not of much use for us.

I'd take Vujacic or Fisher for him, straight-up.


If San Antonio would give us Manu I would trade all of them

Fish,Sasha,Farmar for Manu!!!



DO IT MITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KHRIS]

Spurs fans are so blindly loyal to their guys. If it was up to most spurs fans, we would run this team till they are 80 in wheel chairs because "we love our guys!!"

I understand the attachment too, BUT...face the facts...To compete you need consistency and potential. All of the spurs potential has already been reached and wecomnig down the back side, or in other cases, at the rock bottom of everyone on our active roster's career...It is time to start exploring other opportunities, or we will be a team of 20 year old draft picks with some 45yr old has beens winning 5 games a season and talking about the good ol days....

How about the Lakers send you Luke Walton for Manu? :p:


You guys are nuts. Manu is injured, if healthy even I can admit the Spurs would probably be winning this series.

Gotta love the Spurs fans jumping all over an injured player. Poor Manu he deserves better fans.

[phxspurfan]

There aren't ten players in the league I'd trade Manu for.

Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Carlos Boozer
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Greg Oden
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwayne Wade
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Allen Iverson
Steve Nash
Michael Redd
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Al Jefferson
Chauncey Billups

:rolleyes

[m33p0]

what made this team great last season is what's making this team suck right now - the bench. the team is far too reliant on the big three than last season. last year, the bench is a filled with veterans. now, the ones sitting there are a bunch of old men.

[m33p0]

Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Carlos Boozer
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Greg Oden
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwayne Wade
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Allen Iverson
Steve Nash
Michael Redd
Ray Allen :wow
Paul Pierce
Al Jefferson
Chauncey Billups

:rolleyes

[SRJ]

Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwayne Wade
LeBron James
Paul Pierce
Al Jefferson
Dwight Howard

Fixed.

[phxspurfan]

Ray Allen in the Spurs system would be more money than the Euro.

[Capt Bringdown]

I'm not worried about Manu's inconsistencies.

It's the non-producers on this team that are really hurting us in this series.

We needed to add another piece in the offseason, and we didn't do it. Tragic really.

[kolampanum2471617]

You guys are nuts. Manu is injured, if healthy even I can admit the Spurs would probably be winning this series.


hmmm i remember reading something about how if the lakers lost we fans would say "oh, it was because Bynum didn't play" well,, same thing with you spurs fans, if bynum were to be playing right now, well... sorry to say but the series would have been over... i do believe that if Manu were to be playing healthy this would be a series,, RIGHT NOW WITHOUT BYNUM, but if bynum were to be playing right now... wow... mismatch all over the court, Bynum>Oberto [hahahaha] Pau<Duncan [only good matchup u guys have] Lamar>>>Finley Kobe>Bowen [even though i admit bruce plays great D] fish<Parker [but i think fish+farmar had done a decent job for the most part on parker]

[mrspurs]

every head in the spurs organization is choppable except....pop,duncan,tony,manu,bowen....the rest would shine the pine on most other teams theses days.........go spurs go

[SRJ]

Ray Allen in the Spurs system would be more money than the Euro.

Really? Every shooter we bring in seems to lose points off their FG% their first year here. Seems to take them time to adjust to the system.

[Don Quixote]

If San Antonio would give us Manu I would trade all of them

Fish,Sasha,Farmar for Manu!!!



DO IT MITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd take that trade. That would be a total ripoff in San Antonio's favor. Vujacic, Fisher and Farmar for Ginobili. All 3 are better than Ginobili is now. Vujacic and Farmar are only going to get better, while Ginobili is on the back end of being a good player.

[Don Quixote]

I hope you are joking.

Not joking.

I wouldn't trade Manu for Walton, but I would give the Lakers any of our backup forwards for Walton -- Udoka, Horry, or Barry.

And Radmonovich -- I'd give them Ginobili, Finley and/or Bowen for him. He's been far better than any of that trio in this series. He's practically 7-ft and is a consistent shooter. We need guys like him who can score.

And I'd give up any of our forwards, except Duncan, for Odom, Bynum, or Gasol. Shoot, Odom for Horry, Oberto, Bonner, and Bowen is still a rip-off in our favor. None of our forwards can do what Odom can do, and Odom can do it all -- score, defend, rebound, and shoot. Our forwards (except Duncan) have 1 skill max.

The Laker roster is THAT much better.

[aka_USAPA]

The Spurs are so easy to figure out... Stop Manu and they are toast.

[aka_USAPA]

I'd take that trade. That would be a total ripoff in San Antonio's favor. Vujacic, Fisher and Farmar for Ginobili. All 3 are better than Ginobili is now. Vujacic and Farmar are only going to get better, while Ginobili is on the back end of being a good player.

I don't know that I'll do that trade either. Manu has already regressed while Farmar and Sasha will still get better. Sasha still has lots of upside, and he's hungry. So is Farmar.

[Emanuel20]

Not joking.

I wouldn't trade Manu for Walton, but I would give the Lakers any of our backup forwards for Walton -- Udoka, Horry, or Barry.

And Radmonovich -- I'd give them Ginobili, Finley and/or Bowen for him. He's been far better than any of that trio in this series. He's practically 7-ft and is a consistent shooter. We need guys like him who can score.


The Laker roster is THAT much better.


You must be joking....
Radmonovich for Manu... You just made me fall off the chair laughing....
Come on Spurs fans, you are better than that!

[Don Quixote]

I'm not kidding. Radmonovich is more consistent, doesn't get injured (except when he snowboards), and actually can be counted on to make his shots. Unlike Finley and Ginobili. Bowen is a 1-trick horse -- he can guard people and that's about it.

Plus, Vlad is much younger. I'd do the trade in a heartbeat. Any Laker for any Spur, except Duncan.

[aka_USAPA]

You guys are nuts. Manu is injured, if healthy even I can admit the Spurs would probably be winning this series.

How bad can his injury be? He played very well in Game 3. He's showing signs of being washed up.

[SRJ]

I'm not kidding. Radmonovich is more consistent, doesn't get injured (except when he snowboards), and actually can be counted on to make his shots.

Have you noticed that one of these players is a role player and one is a focal point player? God, if Radmanovic was one of the three best players on his team, that team would win 30-35 games a year and he'd shoot 41-43%. It's a lot easier to look good when defenses are willing to give you shots.

Is he better than our role-playing bigs? Depends on what skills you need. He can shoot the open shot, that's true.

[Emanuel20]

I'm not kidding. Radmonovich is more consistent, doesn't get injured (except when he snowboards), and actually can be counted on to make his shots. Unlike Finley and Ginobili. Bowen is a 1-trick horse -- he can guard people and that's about it.

Plus, Vlad is much younger. I'd do the trade in a heartbeat. Any Laker for any Spur, except Duncan.

For me, the argument you are trying to make is absurd and frankly stupid!
Manu for Radmonovich....:lmao

[imtehma]

I dont get it, Manu had an amazing Game 3. It seems like when he's playing bad Its because of injuries, but when game 3 came along did the injuries magically disappear then reappear in Game 4? NO! The inconsistency attributes MOSTLY to defense. Using the injury card is laughable considering MANU himself said that he feels fine.

SO please, quit trying to downplay the fact that the lakers are beyond the spurs now.

[Don Quixote]

Well, I'm not focusing on Manu for Vlad, but yes, I'd do it. Manu is declining and can no longer break defenses down. He's needed for his shot. Vlad could do it better at this point, plus he's long and not a turnover machine. I think it'd be a fair trade, actually a good one for the Spurs. Not that the Lakers would go for it.

And I'd give any of our bigs (except Tim) for Odom, Bynum, or Gasol. Any of them would immediately start in S.A. and be our 2d best player. Conversely, none of our forwards or centers, outside of Duncan, would be in the rotation, let alone start, for the Lakers. And I doubt that Finley or Barry would even make their roster.

Sorry, but it's true.

[ballhog]

How bad can his injury be? He played very well in Game 3. He's showing signs of being washed up.

Every year he plays deep into the playoffs--winning it all. All the while flailing, falling, crashing, flopping to win it all. Then after all that, he plays for Argentina. Give the guy a break, he's a little tired and injured right now. He's not going to bring it every game at this stage.

[Emanuel20]

Well, I'm not focusing on Manu for Vlad, but yes, I'd do it. Manu is declining and can no longer break defenses down. He's needed for his shot. Vlad could do it better at this point, plus he's long and not a turnover machine. I think it'd be a fair trade, actually a good one for the Spurs. Not that the Lakers would go for it.


I read your argument and read it again and I got nothing. Frankly, I just feel that you are overreacting and pissed off because Manu is not playing well in this series. So be it!
:wakeup

[Don Quixote]

No, I'm not really torked at Manu sucking it in the playoffs. If we were up 3-1, I would care less.

Again, I'm not focusing so much on Manu for Vlad. I'm more interested in the big picture -- the Spurs roster is so much worse than the Lakers roster that basically any of our guys for any of theirs would be a steal for us (except obvious ones like Duncan for Mihm!).

I think a better deal for us would be Oberto, Horry, or Bowen for Vlad. But it'd still be a good deal even if we had to part with Manu. And I love Manu!

And Parker's good too. But we need to get better at his position because he's getting owned by the Laker and Hornet PGs. We won't win any more titles until we get better at that position, either by getting another starting PG, or by getting him a real backup.

And don't get me started on our bigs.

I've been watching the games, and what I see is a slow, old, untalented, poor-shooting, weaker team getting pushed around by a much better squad -- the Lakers. And that torks me off. And this will continue for seasons to come unless the Spurs get better. And they should begin blowing up the roster Friday morning.

[Don Quixote]

But I love and admire your ability and willingness to believe. I wish I could fake it for another night. But I can't. The season's over in 24 hrs, the Lakers will win the title, and L.A. will be bracing for multiple riots.

[pad300]

Exactly. You're saying what I'm saying. Replace Ginobili, who's had a great run, with Vujacic, and he'll get us a 15-4-4 consistently. And he's much younger and doesn't need all this *rest*. Vujacic is at least an average consistent player, as is pretty much everyone on L.A.'s roster. They sure got good in a hurry!

And the rest of the roster isn't even CLOSE to L.A.'s. I think I broke it down rather well. There's no one I wouldn't swap even-up for anyone on the Lakers at a similar position (except Duncan, and Gasol's not that far behind him).

No, No, NO!

IF WE HAD AN AVERAGE SG TO FILL IN FOR MANU WHILE HE IS HURT, WE WOULD BE WINNING THIS SERIES. INSTEAD WE ARE STARTING FINLEY!!! We have come damn close in 2 games and have blown them out in one. This says that the rest of the roster is competitive with LA's. The problem is our starting SG is burnt toast with a spork sticking out of him (Michael Finley) and our Sixth Man of the Year is gimped... What this implies is we should have upgraded our SG rotation during the offseason, rather than relying on the same old guys. Finley had some nice games in last years playoffs, but overall he was mediocre.... This year he's been completely crummy. We should have brought more help in than just Ime.

[Emanuel20]

But I love and admire your ability and willingness to believe. I wish I could fake it for another night. But I can't. The season's over in 24 hrs, the Lakers will win the title, and L.A. will be bracing for multiple riots.
I say Believe!
Also, I admire your willingness to recreate what's right in front of you - a really good basketball team that needs improvement of course but giving tony/manu for some fisher/vlad …No thank you!

[ballhog]

Team needs a youth infusion. Horry and Finley aren't worth it anymore. Vaughn can't shoot a lick. Oberto has hands of stone( I love his beef jerky by the way). Bowen is old but still can play some. Why did we let Udrih go? That's what drives me nuts.

[Emanuel20]

Why did we let Udrih go? That's what drives me nuts.

Please, don't lose too much sleep over that!
:nope

[TMTTRIO]

Give it a break. Yes Manu has never been consistent but he seems to always have an impact with his game whether he's scoring or not. Yes he's hurt and has been pathetic lately but his ankle is not going to heal with a day in between games and I'm afraid that's going to hurt him but I think with some time off to rest he'll be back. He's not finished like I've been hearing. Besides if we traded him to the Lakers can you imagine him coming off the bench for Kobe. I'd still say that would be a scary combo to face. No doubt I hate the way that Manu is playing but it's kind of sad that he spent a lot of time this season carrying the team while Tim and Tony were injured and struggling (he was pretty consistent then) and now everyone wants to get rid of him because he's injured and can do nothing right and should be traded right away :(. I do hope he comes up big tommorow night and I still believe that he's just as pissed off at himself and will try to do things to contribute to a win.

[Emanuel20]

Give it a break. Yes Manu has never been consistent but he seems to always have an impact with his game whether he's scoring or not. Yes he's hurt and has been pathetic lately but his ankle is not going to heal with a day in between games and I'm afraid that's going to hurt him but I think with some time off to rest he'll be back. He's not finished like I've been hearing. Besides if we traded him to the Lakers can you imagine him coming off the bench for Kobe. I'd still say that would be a scary combo to face. No doubt I hate the way that Manu is playing but it's kind of sad that he spent a lot of time this season carrying the team while Tim and Tony were injured and struggling (he was pretty consistent then) and now everyone wants to get rid of him because he's injured and can do nothing right and should be traded right away :(. I do hope he comes up big tommorow night and I still believe that he's just as pissed off at himself and will try to do things to contribute to a win.

I do not want to trade Manu. :nope
I feel pretty bad about him, too. But he needs to step up, I guess with his other ankle.

[YellowFever]

Hell, Manu for Sasha or farmar?

LoL

I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.

All this trade Manu talk does bring some interesting thoughts.

If the Spurs DO lose this series, how are you guys going to re-group?

I don't think signing some more scrubs is going to do it or you guys will be in the same boat this time next year.

I think if the Spur seriously do want to contend for the next few years they will seriously need to think about making some major changes this off season.

They might need to consider trading Ginobili or Parker.

[WCFBaby]

As a Lakers fan.......I'll admit that I'd consider trading Cobe Karl for Manu straight up.

[Don Quixote]

No, No, NO!

IF WE HAD AN AVERAGE SG TO FILL IN FOR MANU WHILE HE IS HURT, WE WOULD BE WINNING THIS SERIES. INSTEAD WE ARE STARTING FINLEY!!! We have come damn close in 2 games and have blown them out in one. This says that the rest of the roster is competitive with LA's. The problem is our starting SG is burnt toast with a spork sticking out of him (Michael Finley) and our Sixth Man of the Year is gimped... What this implies is we should have upgraded our SG rotation during the offseason, rather than relying on the same old guys. Finley had some nice games in last years playoffs, but overall he was mediocre.... This year he's been completely crummy. We should have brought more help in than just Ime.

Hmm ... you make an interesting case. You're saying we're 2 decent shooting guards away from being competitive, because so far ours (Fin & Manu) haven't been. Fin will be gone soon enough, but Manu is here to stay. I don't think anyone will want him. Then again, there are dumb GMs all over basketball, so you never know.

But outside of Tim, do you think that our bigs can compete with the Laker bigs? Their Fs and Cs (Radmonovich, Gasol, Odom, Turiaf) completely owned our bigs (Oberto, Bowen, Horry, Thomas) last night. Their bigs have much more skill, ability, and are able to make shots. Ours aren't.

So, besides SGs, our frontcourt is in serious trouble too.

[Don Quixote]

Hell, Manu for Sasha or farmar?

LoL

I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.

All this trade Manu talk does bring some interesting thoughts.

If the Spurs DO lose this series, how are you guys going to re-group?

I don't think signing some more scrubs is going to do it or you guys will be in the same boat this time next year.

I think if the Spur seriously do want to contend for the next few years they will seriously need to think about making some major changes this off season.

They might need to consider trading Ginobili or Parker.

I'd make the trades too. Farmar is better than any of our guards. Tony is good, but not in the class Farmar will be one day. Or Vujacic.

This is a team of scrubs, revolving around Tim and Tony.

[Don Quixote]

Wouldnt it be easy for you to just become a Laker fan...:lol

No, I am a man of principle and honor. Becoming a Laker fan would go against all that. I only envy your roster and how good it is, and how much better it's going to be when Bynum gets back.

[ElNono]

Listen, Manu is still relatively young, and he will still gives us at the very least 2 or 3 more good years. I tell you what the problem with him is right now:
Pop played this guy no more than 30 mins a night during the regular season. The idea was to keep him fresh for the playoffs.
Now the playoffs come around, and from the get go, he plays way over his usual minutes in the double overtime game. Plus he tweaks the ankle then.
After the Suns series is over, we go down 2-0 to NO, meaning the 2 games at home are must win games... so he plays above average minutes again. We lose game 5, so now games 6 and 7 are must wins. He plays excessive minutes again.

Then we get the Lakers every other day.

Ofcourse the guy is spent. Plus that MRI in his ankle last week goes to tell you that it's not 100%.
This whole season this guy had to show up for what amounts to an inexsistant bench. I'm actually happy to see Barry back, because since he went down with his injury, our bench has been among the worst I can remember.
Pop also miscalculated and fought the bench would produce more, and Manu wouldn't need to play for more than 30 mins a night. Now what happens is Manu doesn't know how to pace himself for a 40+ minute game, and he either is too passive or too gassed by the end of the game.

Last, don't underestimate what thevLakers are doing on defense. Notice how they clog the paint, yet almost every trey Manu took in game 3 was contested. They can do this because PJ knows our offense well. They basically do not guard Bowen and Oberto. That frees Odom to roam and pack the lane in. And also frees Kobe to help on the perimeter. That's why when Bones came in for Bruce, he had all those open looks.

[crazylakerfan001]

give manu a break. u cant blame this series on manu. Its not like u can do any better. u talking bout how he is injuried and all. well so is kobe, so is fish, gasol, ariza, and bynum.

[peskypesky]

I'm not so mad at Manu for sucking. But Poppazit? What fucking excuse does he have for sitting Brent Barry to start the 4th, when Barry was on fire?

Manu tried but didn't have anything to offer. Pop on the other hand, actively fucked us.