Get Refuel: How To Rebuild For 2008-09

[T Park]

Keep dreaming.....yeah, the Spurs will sign Jamison too.....

So his agent saying he hasn't signed either is dreaming?


Whatever. Stick to the political forum and keep posting propaganda there.

[T Park]

He was a 20 PPG guy at the end of last season, then he got screwed at the start of this season in Charlotte. Then he went to Detroit to be screwed again.

He spend the whole year in the doghouse, of course he sucked this season, but it wasn't his fault, he didn't get any PT to show what he can do.

Yeah I agree, I don't think Herrmann has had much chance to show anything since that year in Charlotte.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Yeah I agree, I don't think Herrmann has had much chance to show anything since that year in Charlotte.

Hermann seemed one of the better Argentine gold medalists, when I watched their squad on ESPN in '06...

I think he has enough where he can help give the bench a spark at the forward spot.

[Nbadan]

:rolleyes


Tiago Splitter has decided to 'plant' to the Spurs and continue in the Tau
For Quique comb Until Tuesday, an envoy of the San Antonio Spurs in Vitoria was trying to convince Tiago Splitter, pivot of Tau Ceramics, to be part of 'Operation rejuvenation' team Texan. However, it appears that it has not achieved: the offer of renewal of Tau Cerámica caters to the Brazilian and, almost certainly, will continue in Vitoria.

Splitter, chosen by the San Antonio Spurs with the number 28 of the Draft 2007, accepted the offer of renewal. Although it is not signed and are leftovers last minute, since the environment of the club's own player and baskonista given by the agreement made between the two sides, which would make Tiago in the great gamble of Baskonia, in the style of what was Luis Scola, not emigrated to the NBA to 26 years.

Marca (http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/baloncesto/acb/es/desarrollo/1128541.html)

[objective]

My routine takes, nothing too groundbreaking, just some summarizing of a lot of shared opinions with a little extra here and there maybe.

Just adding a piece or two won't cut it. The Lakers are the team to beat now in the west, and even if you presume Bynum never plays again there isn't a single Laker who will be worse next year due to age and wearing down other than maybe Fisher. Most everyone else will be the same or better. And if Bynum returns . . . Spurs and everyone else are deep in it. But here goes . . .

The Present:

1. Duncan, Parker, Manu, Bowen. Keeping them all is a no-brainer.

2. I don't understand at all how anyone can like the idea of bringing back any of the following: Finley, Horry, Thomas, or for liking the bench and only being a 'piece or two' away.

The massive slumps that lasted months for Horry and Finley are only going to get worse. How on earth under any condition other than inactive list player/pseudo assistant coach either of those two should be brought back is a mystery. They will only get worse. And they were terrible already in the majority of games. Think you had enough of entire streaks of games where Finley gave up rebounds, played horrrible defense, bricked every shot or on the flip passed up open looks? Get ready for more next season. Same for Horry passing up open looks, bricking the rushed jumpers he takes, etc.

Thomas is only slightly better, but he's well on his way on the post-prime heading south express. Yes he had better moments than Finley and Horry, but he's already over the hill. He'll be worse next year. Unfortunately tonight he may have played his way into a contract extension.

3. Unfortunately they're stuck with Oberto and Bonner. In my opinion, Oberto in a perfect world would fill a Kevin Willis-type role from '03. 2nd big man off the bench, limited minutes. Now he's a starter and one of the worst in the league. He has his moments and his places where he can be succesful, but he shouldn't have the role he had this year, not in today's NBA. I can not see a scenario where the Spurs win the title in 09 or 10 if Oberto is the second best big man on the team. It just can't happen. Spurs were fortunate to win in 07 with Oberto and Elson switching off. But as long as Oberto remains # 2 on the team when all the other teams have what they have, chances are poor for a ring.

Whatever people might think of Bonner, the important thing is that it looks like he's in Pop's doghouse. Once you're in you rarely come out. So even if Bonner is good enough to be an 'Horry type' 1st big off the bench (I sure don't think so), he's going to have a hard to time getting a chance to prove he is or isn't. Bonner's deal might be a killer, I don't see how anyone else takes it with 2 years left.

4. Udoka, Barry and Vaughn: All 3 on minimum or close enough contracts. Udoka for the money is solid, but he's a utility wingman who shouldn't be counted on for more than being 10th-12th in a rotation. Barry is fine for the money. Vaughn is probably here to stay, though he's proven that he doesn't belong on a playoff roster at this point in his career. I know everyone likes and respects him and he'll probably be in coaching once he retires so I'm sure he'll be kept around even though I'd prefer he go away.

The problem with Vaughn like other vets is that he will be the temptation for Pop to quit on whatever young developing PG they bring in. In regular season games Pop won't put up with mistakes and will stick in Vaughn, and the same scenario of the playoffs arriving only to see Vaughn amassing DNP-CDs while burning through Manu and Barry for minutes at point to desperately spell a fatigued Parker happens.

I see no reason to give Demarr Johnson a contract, I'm sure he'll be available for another 10-day next year. Stoudamire is gone for sure.

The Future:

Hopefully:

1. Mahinmi gets a lot of burn like several people here recommend. And if of course a miracle happens and Splitter turns down a boatload of money to come here then he should also get a boatload of burn and at least some pre-season starts and the opportunity to start in the reg. In a perfect world those two get tons of minutes with one starting and the other as a 'Turiaf/Maxiell' off the bench, with Oberto spotting in as the 4th big whenever a steady hand is needed as they develop. But if it's only Mahinmi . . . hell, play him until he's done. The timeframe for winning is finite with Duncan's prime, Mahinmi has to be forcefed until he blossoms or implodes into disappointment. I realize that a there's a lot of skepticism about that, but playing next to Duncan makes the lives of other players a lot easier.

2. Sign Mickael Pietrus/Azubuike. I think Pietrus is more 'gettable' so I'll concentrate on him. Yes, Pietrus has pretty much reached his ceiling, he'll never be a great player, hell, he'll never be more than an 'above average' player. Yes, his head may be full of rocks. No, he's not a great shooter. But the Spurs have managed a great defense playing over-the-hill mid-late 30s players like Barry and Finley the last 2-3 years big minutes. He may not be that sharpest knife in the drawer but Pietrus could flourish here defensively. His explosiveness and speed will be a great asset to re-establish a fast break in San Antonio (other than Parker by himself). And playing with his good friend Parker and Mahinmi (though I've never heard that they know each other too well) should ease his transition to the Spurs and give him a good comfort zone.

3. The draft . . . not a lot of faith in the Spurs scouting right now. Don't draft a euro unless it's Batum, though he's probably out of reach. I like Chris Douglas-Roberts. He's like a mini-Shawn Marion if I had to say who he reminds me of. He's probably not gettable, but he's all I got. A point guard could be a target here, I have no suggestions unfortunately.

If Tiago Splitter does sign the extension . . . package his rights with the 26 to move up in the teens if at all possible. A team in the teens can afford to wait two seasons while Splitter builds his bankroll, the Spurs can't. Moving up in the teens gives the Spurs a better chance to improve out of this draft than hoping someone slides to them.

4. Sign Viktor Sanikidze to an unguaranteed minimum contract. At least give him a training camp. Summer league shouldn't be all there is to scope the guy drafted ahead of Ariza when both where 19 year old 6'8" small forwards. I probably liked what I saw in summer league more than most, and apparently much more than the Spurs, but give him a shot, the same one Marcus Williams got.

If he's Marcus Williams-bad as the final cut of training camp arrives, cut him and write him off as another busted pick, so he can go back to Georgia. Or maybe keep him around on the Toros like they did with Williams. I don't expect Sanikidze to be even a remote contributor even though I like him, but I could see him doing the Mahinmi and being 13-15th on the roster while playing in Austin the whole time.

[intlspurshk]

Option 1: Sign Ramunas Siskauskas for MLE, he can play 3 positions, a good defender and will improve ball movement. He is not athletic but SPURS can fill this hole by drafting Courtney Lee or Bill Walker. Then, for LLE, let's see whether V Span still have interest in SPURS. For min, maybe PJ Brown. Re-sign KT. Trade Bonner for Reggie Evan :)

Option 2. Sign Ronny Turiaf or Diop for most of MLE. Then sign or trade for a young SG like CJ Mile. Re-sign KT. Draft a PG. Trade Bonner for cap room.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This guy needs to be our starting 2guard next year.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/1/1a/Act_kelenna_azubuike.jpg

I agree completely.

[InK]

Get rid of Finley, Stoudemire, Vaughn, and retire Horry.

We ll most likely keep 2 of those, at least 2 must go. The real reason imo, why manu broke down as badly, is due to the miserable performance of our bench/ role players in the last month and a half of regular season. Where Manu had to tank for the W almost every game.

[fyatuk]

The Spurs had a great season, but they weren't good enough to win another championship. What are their biggest areas of concern this offseason? How do they address those concerns? How close are they to another championship?

Get rid of the chicken shits who were too afraid to take an open shot, and those who can't hit the broad side of a barn (Thomas, Horry, Finley, Vaughn, Stoudamire at least) and bring in people who will at least pull the trigger.

[said7]

Eddie House - kids got a sac and is not gonna pass up open shots.

[said7]

Get rid of the chicken shits who were too afraid to take an open shot, and those who can't hit the broad side of a barn (Thomas, Horry, Finley, Vaughn, Stoudamire at least) and bring in people who will at least pull the trigger.

This did feel like that 98 season. We need some attitude, i.e. Mario Ellie.

[Streakyshooter08]

With the lack of quality free agents the Spurs might really try to sign Siskauskas.

If I cold choose a SG (out of the possible options) it would look like this:

1. J.R. Smith
2. Azubuike
3. Siskauskas

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I think you can pretty much pencil in 28 being one of the main, if not the main, big next to Duncan. If Splitter comes, he will start next to Duncan, book that shiznit.

I thought Splitter was signing with Tau?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

With the lack of quality free agents the Spurs might really try to sign Siskauskas.

If I cold choose a SG (out of the possible options) it would look like this:

1. J.R. Smith
2. Azubuike
3. Siskauskas

Not sure how anyone can't have Kelenna #1. He scores, he plays defense, he hustles for loose balls. JR Smith is a chucker. Period.

I've singled in on Kelenna because he'd fit in perfect with what the organization is about, could carry a heavy load in our offense, isn't afraid to shoot, and best of all he has a player option this summer so a well placed phone call to his agent could make it clear to him we want to offer him the MLE and start him at shooting guard next year.

That, and the fact GS has a lot of cash tied up in their perimeter players...

I just hope Pop and RC aren't asleep at the wheel.

BTW, LMAO at NBADan in this thread, he's as clueless here as on the political forum.

[MoSpur]

Isn't Ryan Gomes available? What Jamison, Maggette, Brand, or and up and coming young wing player.

[rfbulletdude]

if spurs can not get a backup point
let barry play it more not manu doing regular season so he can be even better at it during playoffs

i'd be willing just to trade manu

[MoSpur]

Keleena Azubuike is a very interesting player I'd love to see play with S.A next year. They need to figure out the whole Splitter thing first. I hope the Spurs draft someone this year who is ready to play in the 08-09 season.

[Allanon]

I personally think Manu's gonna be traded this year for a quality young player around Tony's age. The Spurs can't fix on the fly without a trade due to a lack of young tradeable pieces.

Without trading one of the big 3, the Spurs will be stuck with more hit or miss role-players.

Manu can be traded to a talented but too young team like Portland for 2 quality young guys (Travis Outlaw + Martell). Doug Collins likes Pop and has too much young talent in Chicago as well.

[BacktoBasics]

I personally think Manu's gonna be traded this year for a quality young player around Tony's age. The Spurs can't fix on the fly without a trade due to a lack of young tradeable pieces.

Without trading one of the big 3, the Spurs will be stuck with more hit or miss role-players.

Manu can be traded to a talented but too young team like Portland for 2 quality young guys (Travis Outlaw + Martell).
Although I think thats a possibility I don't see that being anywhere close to fair value despite the younger age. They'll need to find someone who's more mature but still young. Someone perhaps in their upper 20's. Its going to be tough to move Manu I just don't see it happening. I do think he's the most logical to move though.

[K-State Spur]

LOL at all the Laker fans (and the idiot Spurs fans) that are basing their opinions on a one-legged Ginobili in the past 5 games, completely ignoring what he was doing this season up until the injury.

[tav1]

I've not read every post in this thread, but here is my response to the first several pages. First, not to be a sychophant, but TimVp's suggestions hit the mark, at least from my perspective.

I would add two thoughts: the Spurs need to build a team that matches up well with the Lakers and the Hornets--in other words, they need to slow Paul-West and Kobe-Odom-Gasol-Bynum. If they bring in personnel with this in mind, they'll be fine. Secondly, they need more scoring. Sounds simple, but it's not, I know.

In total, this probably means 2 or 3 players. If that's the case, they let Horry and Finley go. They encourage Vaughn to retire. Perhaps they resign Thomas, but cheaply. And, if possible, trade Bonner to create roster space.

By creating a littler roster space, they can develop another player in Austin.

I've posted this previously, but I'd like to see them use their Beno trade exception, if at all possible.

[Allanon]

LOL at all the Laker fans (and the idiot Spurs fans) that are basing their opinions on a one-legged Ginobili in the past 5 games, completely ignoring what he was doing this season up until the injury.

Nah, I'm not disrespecting Manu or his game, he will be back to his old self again next year and that's why he has a high value. But he isn't what the Spurs need. The Spurs need some talented young legs to run with the Lakers, Portland, Jazz, and Hornets of next year.

The Lakers easily outran the Spurs on transition, with or without Manu. Portland is a friggin' outrageously athletic team with talent.

The Spurs had difficulty putting away a young Hornet team even with Good Manu. It's only gonna be harder keeping up with the kids next year.

[kobyz]

what about a trade: sending Matt Bonner to Milwaukee for Charlie Bell
he can be a good backup
reasons Milwaukee will agree:
1. bell is unhappy in Milwaukee
2. bonner has a shorter contract
3. Milwaukee want to give playing time to ramon sessions

[K-State Spur]

The Spurs had difficulty putting away a young Hornet team even with Good Manu.

That would be exactly my point. That was not even remotely close to good Manu in the Hornets series.

He's been on one leg since the last few weeks of the regular season.

He was having the best season of his career up until that injury.

[implacable44]

This guy needs to be our starting 2guard next year.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/1/1a/Act_kelenna_azubuike.jpg

amen to this -- he and or pietrus.

[oski1000]

Without Manu, Spurs won´t even going to play the next playoff!! Some people are forgetting that the only win against the lakers was with Manu in his best game and he also was determinant to beat the Hornets.....

[Allanon]

So you guys are saying, keep Tony, Duncan, Bowen and Manu.

Then wait for somebody to trade a young talented player for Fabricio, Finley, Horry, JV, Ime, Mighty Mouse? The Spurs have gone to the well too many times and now it's dry.

The Spurs haven't traditionally done well in the free agent market so I really don't see options other than trading 1 of the Big 3.

[BacktoBasics]

I would feel better if they can find another 13-16 ppg guy and keep Manu's minutes well under 30 and bring him back to the bench full time. Manu does well in spurts with less minutes. I'm not super hot on it but they could probably sign and trade for Redds contract.

[K-State Spur]

Then wait for somebody to trade a young talented player for Fabricio, Finley, Horry, JV, Ime, Mighty Mouse?


Worked for you guys...

In all seriousness, with a healthy Manu, this team wasn't that far away. I can make a good case that this team was talented enough to be up 3-1 heading into last night game. They just simply didn't make enough plays when they needed to.

Yes, some youth and athleticism needs to be added to the mix, but it doesn't have to be an all-star type of player either.

[Allanon]

Worked for you guys...

In all seriousness, with a healthy Manu, this team wasn't that far away. I can make a good case that this team was talented enough to be up 3-1 heading into last night game. They just simply didn't make enough plays when they needed to.

Yes, some youth and athleticism needs to be added to the mix, but it doesn't have to be an all-star type of player either.

Heheh, yes, it worked for the Lakers but that was after 3 years of suckiness and mediocrity.

I'm not sure the Spurs would be up 3-1 with a healthy Manu, the fact remains that the bench is useless outside of Barry. You usually can't win a title with only a 6 man rotation. But that's water under the bridge, no point in debating it this year.

Without waiting 3 years for a miracle trade, what possible way could the Spurs get a proven young talent without trading a Big 3 player? Not an All-Star, just any good young talent. I can't think of any good young guys who can be picked up for free (non-trade)

[Mr. Body]

Option 1: Sign Ramunas Siskauskas for MLE, he can play 3 positions, a good defender and will improve ball movement. He is not athletic but SPURS can fill this hole by drafting Courtney Lee or Bill Walker. Then, for LLE, let's see whether V Span still have interest in SPURS. For min, maybe PJ Brown. Re-sign KT. Trade Bonner for Reggie Evan :)

Option 2. Sign Ronny Turiaf or Diop for most of MLE. Then sign or trade for a young SG like CJ Mile. Re-sign KT. Draft a PG. Trade Bonner for cap room.

Option 1 is one of the smarter things said on this thread. Siskauskas is practically a go at this point. Not to say he's a great solution, but there are few options. Spanoulis might have to be a real try, too.

[MoSpur]

What about Monta Ellis? The Spurs are good defensively. They need more scoring. I know Ellis is more of a small shooting gaurd, but just want your thoughts.

[Allanon]

Monta Ellis is a very good player but probably too small to play next to Parker. The Spurs would be left majorly undersized with a Parker/Monta back court. And Monta is too valuable now to be played as a backup guard.

[ducks]

Splitter is unproven and likely to cost too much since he resigned with Tao...now Turiaf could be a guy to take a look at....

splitter was drafted in the first round
the nba has rules on how much spurs can give him
now if he was drafted in second round then spurs could sign him to any amount

[K-State Spur]

I'm not sure the Spurs would be up 3-1 with a healthy Manu, the fact remains that the bench is useless outside of Barry.

Without waiting 3 years for a miracle trade, what possible way could the Spurs get a proven young talent without trading a Big 3 player? Not an All-Star, just any good young talent. I can't think of any good young guys who can be picked up for free (non-trade)

I'm not saying that the Spurs would have been up 3-1 with a healthy Manu - only that the "old" roster was talented enough, that it put itself in a position where it should have been up 3-1 even with a gimpy Manu.

Every year, there are quite a few good young talents who are picked up later in the draft or traded for virtually nothing. Athletic wings are pretty easy to find around the league - it's just about finding one that is the right fit for this team.

Trade Manu, and they'd be lucky if they could replace him with 2 guys who can match his productivity or efficiency (when healthy).

[urunobili]

This guy needs to be our starting 2guard next year.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/1/1a/Act_kelenna_azubuike.jpg

:tu

[urunobili]

Get Haslem, Kapono, Azuibukee

[bigdog]

splitter was drafted in the first round
the nba has rules on how much spurs can give him
now if he was drafted in second round then spurs could sign him to any amount

Yeah but remember the Spurs would have to buyout his contract which will mean more money. It's not what the Spurs can offer him, that's already set, it's the money they would have to pay Tau just to get him in the States.

[K-State Spur]

Get Haslem, Kapono, Azuibukee

i don't want any part of kapono's contract.

even at 37, barry is likely to give you similar production for a fraction of the cost.

[J_Paco]

I believe the combo of Kelenna, Brandon Bass, Ian and drafting both a long wingplayer and back-up PG could help this team headed in a younger direction quickly. Of course, they'd face growing pains but it would be worth it.

[ducks]

Yeah but remember the Spurs would have to buyout his contract which will mean more money. It's not what the Spurs can offer him, that's already set, it's the money they would have to pay Tau just to get him in the States.

they can only offer him 500k by league rules for nba buyout
spurs would do that they are not cheap

[Mr.Franchize]

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2008/05/0530_eva_longoria_inf.jpg

[Spur-Addict]

I believe the combo of Kelenna, Brandon Bass, Ian and drafting both a long wingplayer and back-up PG could help this team headed in a younger direction quickly. Of course, they'd face growing pains but it would be worth it.

Bass is going no where.

:wakeup

[AztecPrincss]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.


I think Udoka may be the bruce jr..He's a very good defensive player.I like hes energy .Pop should consider him for another season.vaughn,fabricio,horry finley hav to go !

[1Parker1]

Kelenna Azuibuike.

Is he a FA next season?

[EJK5032]

giving up on Beno Udrih was stupid too

for all the great moves the Spurs front office makes, when they make a bad one, they make it big time........Udrih, Scola.........and if this Splitter crap is true........ugh!

[EJK5032]

giving up on Beno Udrih was stupid too

for all the great moves the Spurs front office makes, when they make a bad one, they make it big time........Udrih, Scola.........and if this Splitter crap is true........ugh!


oh, and trading Barbosa too

I know we didn't have the roster space at the time, but can you imagine if we had Parker and Barbosa in the same backcourt ?

[angelbelow]

now that splitter is out, i think we need to draft the BEST player available at our draft position. whether its a PG, C, SF, PF, SG (i did miss anything?) we need help at every position. WITH splitter i would have went after a 2/3 since the PG class is weak around our range.

i think we need to go after another allstar and hopefully convince him to take the MLE. we need someone that can create their own offense. i like the role players being mentioned here (azbuike, gomes, etc) but i think we need to make a bigger splash.

[Mr. Body]

There's been speculation that the Blazers or T-Wolves, both with two early 2nd round draft picks, might be interested in a late 1st for them (plus incentives). I've heard Detroit is looking to do the same thing. Given that we lost Splitter, I like this route more. Shrewd picks early in the 2nd might yield good players - Lester Hudson, Joey Dorsey, Pat Calathes, JR Giddens all come to mind - and the team needs lots of help. The downside is trusting shrewd picks.

[T Park]

giving up on Beno Udrih was stupid too

for all the great moves the Spurs front office makes, when they make a bad one, they make it big time........Udrih, Scola.........and if this Splitter crap is true........ugh!


Udrih had thousands of chances.

Period.

He failed. Next.

[E20]

Kelenna Azuibuike.

Is he a FA next season?

Restricted FA. Having watched him for almost 82 games, he is a really good player, young, athletic, tough, can play 2/3. Streaky shooter, but with Chip, he could really solidify his shot. I doubt Nelson would let him go.

[T Park]

oh, and trading Barbosa too

I know we didn't have the roster space at the time, but can you imagine if we had Parker and Barbosa in the same backcourt ?

Barbosa was never slated to be on the roster and honestly, hes a choking dog in the playoffs.

No thanks

[T Park]

Restricted FA. Having watched him for almost 82 games, he is a really good player, young, athletic, tough, can play 2/3. Streaky shooter, but with Chip, he could really solidify his shot. I doubt Nelson would let him go.

Yeah I doubt hes let go, who knows maybe a sign and trade could be worked out.

Nelson likes the Bonner types of players, ala Austin Chroshere.

[gospursgojas]

Kelenna Azubuike
Ron Artest
Chris Duhon
Tiago Splitter
Ian Mahimni
Josh Childress

Getting any 2 of those 6 players would help vastly

[Jobbs]

sign Josh Smith to a large sum of cash so Atlanta can't match. If you want a younger Bowen, he's it.

[T Park]

sign Josh Smith to a large sum of cash so Atlanta can't match. If you want a younger Bowen, he's it.

Hes not going anywhere. Sorry.

[T Park]

Kelenna Azubuike
Ron Artest
Chris Duhon
Tiago Splitter
Ian Mahimni
Josh Childress

Getting any 2 of those 6 players would help vastly

Well they have Ian Mahinmi under contract alread :)

If it were up to me, Azubuike, Splitter, wing in the draft, second round get a point guard, call it an offseason.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Well they have Ian Mahinmi under contract alread :)

If it were up to me, Azubuike, Splitter, wing in the draft, second round get a point guard, call it an offseason.

Agreed completely.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Kelenna has a player option and the Warriors have to pay Ellis this summer, which is going to cost them a lot. Hard to see them ponying up 15-20 million at the 2guard position.

[T Park]

Kelenna has a player option and the Warriors have to pay Ellis this summer, which is going to cost them a lot. Hard to see them ponying up 15-20 million at the 2guard position.

You'd think Montae would command at least 8 or nine, and Baron Davis might exercise that contract and become a FA and might try to swing a sign and trade to New York.

Lots of possibilities. I agree 1000% and props to you for bringing it up, Azubuike is gettable and I think perfect.

[T Park]

Agreed completely.

Oh and resign Kurt Thomas.

Then call it an off season.

[E20]

It would be nice to push for Baron Davis seeing as he actually plays SG while Monta plays the 1. If TD is willing to play a backup scoring role, which he probably will, him and Parker could be great scoring together and Davis looks to find other players. But I doubt Baron goes to the Spurs for the MLE. :lol

[timaios]

Oh and resign Kurt Thomas.

Then call it an off season.

How much ?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If it goes down like I envision (which is about the same chances as a llama breaking through my computer screen), this is how the roster would look:

C Splitter/Oberto/Thomas
PF Duncan/Mahinmi
SF Bowen/Udoka/(draft wing-Lee? Walker? Casspi?)
SG Manu/Azubuike/Barry
PG Tony/(draft pg-Dragic? Gordon? Hudson? Taylor?)

[T Park]

How much ?

Marcus Bryant put it perfectly, I think 2 years 4 mill a year would suffice.

Versatility is the name of the game, and having 4 different bigs outside of Duncan would be huge.

An Oberto, Thomas, Mahinmi, god willing, Tiago.

[E20]

There is no chance that Splitter will play for the SPurs next season, he's already signed with Tau, unless if the Spurs buyout his contract, which I don't think they would.

[SOMA Spur]

Any takers on Ricky Davis? I know he's a cancer, but surround him with the right guys and he might be our SJax for next season.

[T Park]

There is no chance that Splitter will play for the SPurs next season, he's already signed with Tau, unless if the Spurs buyout his contract, which I don't think they would.

He has not signed with tau yet.

[T Park]

Any takers on Ricky Davis? I know he's a cancer, but surround him with the right guys and he might be our SJax for next season.


is this Ricky Davis's agent?

No thanks, a cancer and a ball hog and a me first player.

Not spurs material, no thanks

[Spurs Brazil]

That's the roster I'd like to see next season:

Oberto/Tiago/Thomas or Horry
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Young athletic guy
Manu/Azubukie/Barry
TP/Young PG/JV

[T Park]

That's the roster I'd like to see next season:

Oberto/Tiago/Thomas or Horry
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Young athletic guy
Manu/Azubukie/Barry
TP/Young PG/JV


That = Ring # 5. Period.

[SOMA Spur]

is this Ricky Davis's agent?

No thanks, a cancer and a ball hog and a me first player.

Not spurs material, no thanks

if we're not able to pry away any of those restricted FA, were still going to need to bring someone who can create their own shot. Anyone better than Davis out there thats unrestricted?

[T Park]

if we're not able to pry away any of those restricted FA, were still going to need to bring someone who can create their own shot. Anyone better than Davis out there thats unrestricted?

I'd rather bring back Michael Finley and lose, than win with a piece of crap like Davis.

[SOMA Spur]

I'd rather bring back Michael Finley and lose, than win with a piece of crap like Davis.

Jesus, its not like he raped some poor girl in Colorado...

[SPARKY]

That's the roster I'd like to see next season:

Oberto/Tiago/Thomas or Horry
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Young athletic guy
Manu/Azubukie/Barry
TP/Young PG/JV

That would be nice.

[Mr. Body]

Jesus, its not like he raped some poor girl in Colorado...

Hahaha. Lols. I forgot that one in my karma rundown. Kobe rapes chicks.

[Leetonidas]

I agree with the decision to keep Kurt Thomas. The guy has a lot of game left and did a great job rebounding and playing with Tim.

[Mr. Body]

I agree with the decision to keep Kurt Thomas. The guy has a lot of game left and did a great job rebounding and playing with Tim.

Plus you spent a first rounder on him. Might as well squeeze some value out of him.

[El Fuego]

I think Chris Douglas-Roberts is the guy in the draft we need to get. At 6-7 he brings good height to the shooting guard position and is a good scorer.I know he crumbled under presure in the title game on the free throw line but what Spur hasn't missed a criticle free throw(s) before. He should be around by the time we pick.

If he isn't, then what do ya'll think about Mario Chamlers if he does stay in the draft? I think we at least need to address one of our needs in the draft whether its backup shooting gaurd or point guard.

What do yall think about a draft night trade since we cant trade our pick till draft night? Maybe our 1st and sign and trade one of our retirees (Finley, Horry) to a high one year contract, like what Dallas did with VanHorn. I wonder how much it would cost us for a player like Mike Miller? Our 1st, Our 2 seconds, maybe future seconds, a one year Finley or Horry, cash(i think we can send what 2 million?) since Finley or Horry will probably just be waived.

If Miller is unatainable then what other player can we get?

[Mr. Body]

I'd pick Chalmers before CDR, probably, and I kind of like CDR.

Miller makes $9 million a year. He'd be awesome but the Spurs can't afford him. Other teams would, but the Spurs wouldn't.

[Jobbs]

Hes not going anywhere. Sorry.

The talk after the Hawks were eliminated was if the coach wasn't brought back Smith would look elsewhere to play. 76ers seem really interested. Hawks owners are know for being cheap so they may let him go. If he stays...meh.

If you want scoring off the bench, Jarvis Hayes could be a good option.
For as much trouble he gives us, Bonzi could sign for the MLE.

[Mr. Body]

You think Bonzi Wells gets as much as the MLE from somebody?

[Jobbs]

You think Bonzi Wells gets as much as the MLE from somebody?

Well he's not a starter anymore and he may have 2-3 good years left in him.
After the series with the Spurs, his stock probably dipped down a bit. I can't see him going to a team that's rebuilding. Actually, he would fit in perfect with the Pistons.

[tav1]

That's the roster I'd like to see next season:

Oberto/Tiago/Thomas or Horry
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Young athletic guy
Manu/Azubukie/Barry
TP/Young PG/JV

Those adjustments are possible, but I don't think it means a ring. The Lakers will be better next season than they are now, so we'll have to step it up a couple notches.

Ideally, JV would retire. Barry would become the back up point--but would play sparingly for the first half of the season so that we could work another point in, a la Rodney Stucky--and I'd like a starting 2 that could give 30 minutes a night, if need be. Ginobli is in bad shape, and playing this summer is not going to help the Spurs' cause. I say, let him and Parker sit out of training camp and teach the new guys by fire.

[Mr. Body]

Those adjustments are possible, but I don't think it means a ring. The Lakers will be better next season than they are now, so we'll have to step it up a couple notches.

Ideally, JV would retire. Barry would become the back up point--but would play sparingly for the first half of the season so that we could work another point in, a la Rodney Stucky--and I'd like a starting 2 that could give 30 minutes a night, if need be. Ginobli is in bad shape, and playing this summer is not going to help the Spurs' cause. I say, let him and Parker sit out of training camp and teach the new guys by fire.

I think it will take at least two years to rebuild (around the big three) and by then it may be too late, sides not having a draft pick next year.

[tav1]

And, despite my distaste for small ball, if the Spurs lose Splitter, I'd absolutely package his rights with Matt Bonner's contract.

But the loss of Splitter also means the Spurs should consider moving Duncan to the 5 and starting either Udoka or a FA at the 4. This could help solve the Gasol-Bynum puzzle too. For example, if the Spurs sign James Jones he could start at the 4 and take Gasol and his rebounding out of the picture. This would also provide a scoring boost.

The Lakers are going to be a tough riddle to solve, but there are ways to get it done. Something else I like is signing Sasha. He could help the Spurs and would detract from the Lakers. He's also a good fit minutes-wise. Too bad he's a cock.

[El_Mago]

I tried to make this as realistic as possible. The guys who I mentioned that are restricted could possibly be nabbed from their teams if enough money is thrown at them...especially if they offer is loaded in the first year. I am not in crazy about all these guys, but some have great potential while others could be effective.

Half the MLE between any combination of or could sign them with the LLE:
Diop
Pietrus
C.J. Miles - Restricted
Quinton Ross
Royal Ivey
Keyon Dooling
Dorell Wright

Worth Majority of Full MLE:
Kelenna Azubuike - Restricted
J.R. Smith - Restricted
Devin Brown
Josh Childress - Restricted

Internationals:
Dimitris Diamantidis; 28 Yrs old; PG; Greece
Ramunas Siskauskas; 29 Yrs old; SG; Lithuania (Terrific Shooter; would be expensive though)


* I will include Tiago, but things do not look good with him
* I would like Kelenna, but I think Golden State will do all they can to keep him, and SA will not throw the full MLE to him.
*Also, I would like to see the Spurs package the 2nd rounders to move up in the 2nd round or late first, and draft Casspi.
* If not Casspi, the Spurs could look to draft Anton Ponkrashov out of Russia. He is a PG/SG who is 21, and left handed. He is talented and I believe he is even getting some run with Euroleague power house CSKA Moscow. He also led Led the Russian U-20 national team to the European title. I like the kid.

Oberto/Tiago/Thomas
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Douglas-Roberts
Manu/C.J. Miles/Barry
TP/Darius Washington/JV

OR

Diop/Oberto/Thomas
Duncan/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Udoka/Douglas-Roberts
Manu/C.J Miles/Barry
Parker/Darius/Vaughn

Call it a off-season and go for title number 5.

I really like team number 2.

[Biggems]

I would have no problem with the Spurs trading the rights to Splitter...however, think about this....Splitter signed for 2 years. He is still very young. So after those two years, he can get even better, then come to the Spurs as Duncan's career is near the end. By then, Mahimni will have 2 years of NBA under his belt and be seasoned.

Spurs players I am ready to say goodbye to
Robert Horry - retire
Michael Finley - FA
Jacques Vaughn - FA
Damon Stoudamire - retire
Kurt Thomas - FA

Free Agents I would like to sign
C DaSagana Diop
G/F James Jones
PG Roger Mason

Draft (trade our 1st for two 2nds)
2 - F/C Glen Dorsey or DeVon Hardin
2 - F Serge Ibaka
2 - G Jamont Gordon
2 - G/F Marty Leunen


2008-09 Roster
C - Diop, Dorsey/Hardin, Bonner
PF - Duncan, Mahimni, Oberto
SF - Bowen, Udoka, Ibaka
SG - Manu, Jones, Luenen
PG - Parker, Barry, Gordon

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

That's the roster I'd like to see next season:

Oberto/Tiago/Thomas or Horry
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Young athletic guy
Manu/Azubukie/Barry
TP/Young PG/JV

Azubuikie would be awesome to spark our bench, though we'd still need some forward

Is Tiago still part of the equation? or something..

are we going to be hearing from Pop trying to finalize with us in June? It's a shame if we can't get him, his name is bad-ass.

[E20]

LMAO I've seen at least 5 different ways to spell Azibuike(sp?).

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The correct way is Azubuike.

[Biggems]

LMAO I've seen at least 5 different ways to spell Azibuike(sp?).

call him Kaz

[MagnusKrauss]

(free agent restriction)name - position (age) salary

c - c/f

tim duncan - f/c (32) $20,598,704
ian mahinmi - c (21) $1,009,200
fabricio oberto - c (33) $3,500,000
matt bonner - c/f (28) $2,959,190 //develop this guy!!!//
(UFA)kurt thomas - c/f (35) $8,091,188 //re-sign for vet min, possible?//
(UFA)robert horry - f/c (37) $3,630,000 //needs to retire//

f, f/g

bruce bowen - f (36) $4,000,000
ime udoka - f (30) $1,080,000
(UFA)dermarr johnson - f/g (28) $54,396 //possible re-sign? i'm not too high on him//

g, g/f

tony parker - g (26) $11,550,000
manu ginobili - g (30) $9,905,248
(UFA/P)brent barry - g (36) $1,178,348 //this is the vet min, right?//
(UFA)damon stoudamire - g (34) $335,442 //should be gone//
(UFA)michael finley - g/f (35) $3,103,000 //retire or trade?//
(UFA/P)jacque vaughn - g (33) $1,262,275 //should be gone//

================

c - c/f

tim duncan - f/c (32) $20,598,704
ian mahinmi - c (21) $1,009,200
fabricio oberto - c (33) $3,500,000
matt bonner - c/f (28) $2,959,190
(UFA)kurt thomas - c/f (35)

f, f/g

bruce bowen - f (36) $4,000,000
ime udoka - f (30) $1,080,000
(UFA)dermarr johnson - f/g (28)

g, g/f

tony parker - g (26) $11,550,000
manu ginobili - g (30) $9,905,248
(UFA/P)brent barry - g (36)

current total for 08-09: $54,602,342

[E20]

Is that C++ for free agency/off season.

[MagnusKrauss]

ahehehe sorry about that.

is jacque vaughn under contract for the 08-09 season? (i thought the /P on the UFA restriction class meant that he had a player option. does that mean he's the one who'll be deciding whether or not he goes back to the spurs next season?)

[Sway]

This guy needs to be our starting 2guard next year.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/1/1a/Act_kelenna_azubuike.jpg

:tu:tu

This would be a great pick up! Im just not sure if the FO can get it done...

[ChumpDumper]

It's going to be tough. GS can basically keep anyone they want. Hopefully they draft a swingman they like better.

[E20]

Chump, I know Azubuike played a lot in the D-League, did you follow him? If so, how was his play in the D-League and did you think he translated the way he would to the NBA?

[angelbelow]

azubuike is not bad choice, are we appealing to him though?

[E20]

azubuike is not bad choice, are we appealing to him though?
Azubuike was used mostly during the stretches where Stephen Jackson was inactive or some other type of issue with the main rotation for GS. He then made his way into the rotation. Basically a 20 MPG player, and if he was feeling it he would play more. Right now I'm guessing Azubuike wants money and playing time. With GS's situation I'm guessing they can offer him the LLE (use MLE to sign Monta?) and have him come off the bench to play some substantial minutes. I'm not too sure if the Spurs would give him all the MLE and as far as PT, I'm not sure, he'd probably share a lot of the minutes with Manu and Bruce at the 2/3.

Also I wonder how much Matt Barnes is wanting to make? Since he is also a FA.

[Blackjack]

The perfect scenario for me is to find a way to use our 1st rd. pick + ? to get our hands on Sefolosha, and then get Chalmers in the 2nd rd.

Sefolosha is Doug Christie if he had a pair. He's potentially the replacement for Bowen that not only isn't a liability on the offensive end, but a play-maker who can run the point. He'll also be able to contribute immediately, which has to be a priority.

Chalmers has the potential to not only back-up Tony, but play along side of him with his shooting. He also helps in the transition game with his ability to play passing lanes and disrupt the oppositions offense. He's never afraid of the big moments, and he knows how to play with talent. Add all of that to Buford's K.U. ties, and it just seems to make since.

[Pucho!!!]

Like everyone else said, infuse younger players, get sum players that can put the ball on the floor and not just spot up shoot and GET IT KRUNK WITH THESE SCRUB TEAMS THAT WE CAN PUT 20 POINTS UP ON THEM (lakers/celtics)

[DazedAndConfused]

IMHO the Spurs should try and make a play for BOTH Barnes and Azubuike.

Azubuike - solid defender, good shooting stroke, good team player, very young and has lots of potential

Barnes - versatile defender, good rebounder, not afraid of contact, bruising type of player, can actually hit the occasional 3 ball

With these two players alone the Spurs would plug up some huge holes they have. Offensively they'll probably need to find one more player at the 4/5 spot alongside Duncan that can help out with interior scoring. Also a backup PG for Parker is a necessity, I have no idea why your FO has held onto JV for so long. That guy is absolutely terrible.

Anyone suggesting trading Ginobli is an idiot. He has all the intangibles you could ever ask for in a player, you just don't find players like him in this league very often. Just let him get healthy.

[velik_m]

I think the spurs will draft their next year's backup PG. Then get a FA SF and try to sign Ian and Splitter. And that will be pretty much it.

[Streakyshooter08]

The problem is that Azubuike is restricted. It is more likely that GS lets Pietrus or Barnes walk an keep him.

[ChumpDumper]

It kind of depends on what kind of money Biedrins gets, but GS should be able to match most offers to Azubuike if they want to keep him. Denver seems in much more of a money crunch, so it might be easier to steal JR Smith, for example.

[Blackjack]

Does anyone know how the Wizards feel about Dominic McGuire? His shot needs work, but he could be a hell of a good versatile defender. If he gets put in the right situation I think he could turn out a little like G. Wallace with the way he defends, rebounds, and blocks shots, from that 3/4 position.

[Gregzilla]

The important thing to remember is the Spurs did make it to the WCF so I don't expect R.C and Pop making any big name signings or major trades. The way I see it we definetely need to unload some old players and "dead weight" while focusing on revamping our bench. To me that means bye bye Horry,Vaughn,Bonner,Finley,Stoudemire,Johnson and possibly Barry. Some quality FA's that shouldn't demand much money that can make a solid impact off the bench could be: Carlos Delfino (raptors), Azubuike (warriors), Lorenzen Wright (grizzlies), and Dan Dickau (clippers).

Carlos Delfino (RFA)- 26 yr old Argentinian who reminds a lot of Manu and has a great 3pt stroke. He can definetely play SG or SF and can take the place of both Barry and Finley off the bench. Pop could possibly start him and bring Manu off the bench as well.Hopefully the South American connects we have can persuade him to come to SA and get out of Canada.

Kelenna Azubuike (RFA)- Young athletic SG who can play a significant role off the bench. Can dunk,run the floor, slash the paint and is only 25yrs old. Reminds me of a younger Udoka with more hops and better ball handling.Maybe the spark off the bench that we need to get the crowd hype off an alley or break away dunk.

Lorenzen Wright (UFA)- not a whole lotta options at the PF or C so Wright I think can benefit this team. He's 6'11 so can play both positions and is the same age as Duncan. Next to Timmy he should be decent and in 04 averaged 11pts 7reb. Younger that Horry and more athletic than Bonner so he's a go in my book. Should be a good help defender in case someone blows by Mahinmi or Oberto.

Dan Dickau (UFA)-Gonzaga alum, should be a solid pg behind TP. Career 83% ft and 34% 3pt, he can run the offense just like Jacque was able to plus he can hit the open 3 that everyone in the league knows our pg's can't hit. Not great but can be pretty solid i think. He's 29 and been in the league about 6 years so he wouldn't be too green. If Pop wants to go younger and more athletic at PG than I see Washington making the team. Anyway TP is only 26 and should be loggin in about 35 minutes a game so we would only need our backup PG to come in, run a couple plays and hit an open shot should it become available.

My 2008 roster-

(pg)Parker, Dickau
(sg)Manu,Azubuike
(sf)Bowen, Delfino,Udoka
(pf)Duncan,Wright,Thomas,
(c)Mahinmi, Oberto


*Robertas Javtokas is a wild card, doesn't look like Splitter is coming...

[angelbelow]

The perfect scenario for me is to find a way to use our 1st rd. pick + ? to get our hands on Sefolosha, and then get Chalmers in the 2nd rd.

Sefolosha is Doug Christie if he had a pair. He's potentially the replacement for Bowen that not only isn't a liability on the offensive end, but a play-maker who can run the point. He'll also be able to contribute immediately, which has to be a priority.

Chalmers has the potential to not only back-up Tony, but play along side of him with his shooting. He also helps in the transition game with his ability to play passing lanes and disrupt the oppositions offense. He's never afraid of the big moments, and he knows how to play with talent. Add all of that to Buford's K.U. ties, and it just seems to make since.

+1 sefolosha showed great potential this year and is an underrated rebounder. his height and his athleticism would be an upgrade over udoka. and hes got a nice offensive game. he would be welcomed here.

[Man of Steel]

James White
Machine
Stephen Jackson
Malik Rose

[kobyz]

i want to see this roster next season:

parker, charlie bell (trade bonner for him - milwaukee will agree because bell is unhappy there and they will get a shorter contract in bonner contract), Jacque Vaughn

Ginobili, swingman from the draft (Brandon Rush if available if not Douglas-Roberts if not Courtney Lee), Brent Barry, Michael Finley

bowen, mickael pietrus (give him the MLE), udoka

duncan, oberto, Mahinmi

splitter, kurt thomas

if we get a good player in the second round of the draft there is a chance that he will get a roster spot instead of Jacque Vaughn or Michael Finley.

that is my dream for the next season roster!!! what do you think?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Not sure how anyone can't have Kelenna #1. He scores, he plays defense, he hustles for loose balls. JR Smith is a chucker. Period.

just curious how a chucker can shoot 40% from 3. He certainly doesnt chuck up shots like he used to. He has learned that pretty much noone can stop him getting to the rim once he decides to penetrate.

Young kid who has made huge strides this season. Time will tell whether or not he continues.

He would be perfect for the Spurs coz Pop could get the best out of him, but it wont happen anyway.

[MagnusKrauss]

Monta Ellis $770,610 //no way this guy accepts less than $5mil//
Austin Croshere $1,219,590 //they resign this guy, hopefully//
Mickael Pietrus $3,470,771 //qualifying offer//

Chris Weber $596,244 //retired//-------------------------|amounts to about $6,228,857
Sarunas Jasikevicius $4,000,000 //went home//-----------| of free cash for GS
Troy Hudson $1,219,590 //dunno if they keep this guy//---|
(Dajuan Wagner) $413,023 //is this guy even there?//-----|

Matt Barnes $3,000,000 //seems like udoka money...get him!//
Kelenna Azubuike $687,456

seeing that, GS would free up enough cash to afford paying Monta for his new contract, plus some left-over for the veteran minimum. GS would have to choose between keeping Barnes or Azubuike, hopefully. it would depend on a few factors:

1)they keep Pietrus (hopefully...you guys don't seem to be too impressed with him)
2)they keep Croshere
3)they exercise the team option on O'Bryant & Lasme
4)Baron Davis stays put
5)GS decides not to match the offer for Azubuike

[Bruno]

I think Spurs should look at first at JR Smith. Spurs need to have a fourth offensive threat behind the big three.
A 2 years full MLE contract would be perfect. Nuggets will have to match a contract that will cost them $11M per year.

If it doesn't work with JR Smith, I quite like Azubuike, Delfino or Ricky Davis.

[MagnusKrauss]

JR Smith seems to be a high-risk investment. sure, we have precedent for such a signing (SJax), but there's a huge difference between JR and Jax.

Delfino seems to be drama queen, from what i gather from other posters here. Ricky Davis is too...i just dunno.

looking back at the space created by Kurt Thomas' contract (8mil) we have enough cash to go after Azubuike AND Barnes (nice idea Dazed) if and only if both Fin and Horry don't come back. Barnes is going to be an easier signing, since he's unrestricted.

Bruno, can we sign players from Europe with non-renewed contracts even if they do not declare for the draft?

[mystargtr34]

Ricky Davis can score the basketball... well could... but hes a terribly inconsistent 3 pt shooter which could be a problem.

JR Smith i really like... he really came on this season, especially in the playoffs... I think he might be the way to go. Azubuike is probably the better defender, at least a more willing one... but JR Smith has proven he can really fill it up.

[mystargtr34]

JR Smith seems to be a high-risk investment. sure, we have precedent for such a signing (SJax), but there's a huge difference between JR and Jax.

Delfino seems to be drama queen, from what i gather from other posters here. Ricky Davis is too...i just dunno.

looking back at the space created by Kurt Thomas' contract (8mil) we have enough cash to go after Azubuike AND Barnes (nice idea Dazed) if and only if both Fin and Horry don't come back. Barnes is going to be an easier signing, since he's unrestricted.

Bruno, can we sign players from Europe with non-renewed contracts even if they do not declare for the draft?

Surely theyve run their course... i mean Horry was pretty atrocious when he was on the court... he completely stagnated anything we tried to do on offense by not taking open shots and he evem struggled to pass the ball.

He has to go... even Pop should be able to see that.

[MagnusKrauss]

they *might* come back, after all, they're family now.

Pop would give them a space if they asked for it. unfortunately.

[Bruno]

Bruno, can we sign players from Europe with non-renewed contracts even if they do not declare for the draft?

I don't know exactly what you men by "non-renewed" contract but NBA teams can sign players from Europe as long as they aren't under contract with another team or have a contract with a NBA buy out. Spurs can't sign players who NBA rights are owned by another team and young players who are still draft eligible (mainly players born in 1987 or later).

Among these European players, there are some interesting names like Ramunas Siskauskas and Quinton Hosley.

[tav1]

So much depends on the draft--a player like Lee or Rush could step in a play immediately--allowing the Spurs to give or split their full MLE elsewhere. If they were willing to take a risk, I'd consider splitting the MLE and giving the smaller slice to Trevor Ariza. He's young, was hobbled by injury, but has the potential to be the kind of slashing scorer and defensive wing we need. But it's worth noting that he has tremendous lateral foot speed and can defend 1-3. Having his long frame to drape over Chris Paul could be a big help. He's unrestricted, won't be seeing much pt if he resigns with LA and would be relatively cheap.

[MagnusKrauss]

what i meant was that they play in Europe (Euroleague or the other leagues, i'm not that familiar with them) and that the team they play for did not renew their contracts (or is currently a free agent there) , but yes, you hit the nail on the head.

Siskauskas seems to be a perfect fit for a second-round draft pick (since we can sign him for a much larger contract, right?) too perfect in fact (90.6%FT???) i don't think we'd have the cash to outbid CSKA for him. and he's turning 30 this year.

how about James White! ?

[ManuTastic]

I really want more help in the paint for Tim. Just look at the way NO and LA ran wild inside with Odom and Chandler.

I'm not too worried about the back court; once Manu heals up he and Barry and Udoka will be fine outside. And Ricky Davis? That's just a joke; he's a classic case of million-dollar talent with a 50-cent head. I'm just tired of watching Berto get punk'd. (I know, he had some good stretches against Odom, but he's not a complete big man.) Or maybe when Kurt has more time in the system he'll be the answer; I sure as hell thought he would be this year, but he didn't get much PT.

[wildchild]

BRING IN MUTUMBO!:downspin:

Yeah! I don't understand a few guys. KT's 36 years old next season. Bring Ian!
KT, Horry, Fin.C'mon guys! Before the new contract for KT I prefer Diop a lot.

[silk]

what do you all think of jamario moon or quinton ross ? i think they would fit very well in spurs system

[T Park]

Quinton Ross sucks.

[manufor3]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.

id like to keep udoka and KT for sure but id like to see us trade oberto and maybe a 1st rounder in 2010+ for a good center

[silk]

Tony allen hasn't been mentionned a lot but he's a capable bench player, some scoring, accurate shooter, restricted but we know boston's cap situation.. kareem rush would also fill the bill as a combo guard

[Bruno]

If they were willing to take a risk, I'd consider splitting the MLE and giving the smaller slice to Trevor Ariza.

Ariza has a $2.9M player option. Unless he has a monster final, I doubt he will opts out. If he opts out, it won't be to sign for a smaller contract (less than half the MLE).

[Spur-Addict]

The perfect scenario for me is to find a way to use our 1st rd. pick + ? to get our hands on Sefolosha, and then get Chalmers in the 2nd rd.

Sefolosha is Doug Christie if he had a pair. He's potentially the replacement for Bowen that not only isn't a liability on the offensive end, but a play-maker who can run the point. He'll also be able to contribute immediately, which has to be a priority.

Chalmers has the potential to not only back-up Tony, but play along side of him with his shooting. He also helps in the transition game with his ability to play passing lanes and disrupt the oppositions offense. He's never afraid of the big moments, and he knows how to play with talent. Add all of that to Buford's K.U. ties, and it just seems to make since.

I have no problem with Chalmers. Sef doesn't exactly fit in the now. We want to win now. Sef is decent, i'd rather have Kelenna.

[Bruno]

what do you all think of jamario moon or quinton ross ? i think they would fit very well in spurs system

Moon isn't a free agent.

[Spur-Addict]

Tony allen hasn't been mentionned a lot but he's a capable bench player, some scoring, accurate shooter, restricted but we know boston's cap situation.. kareem rush would also fill the bill as a combo guard

No K-Rush....NEVER....Allen isn't going to solve our problems.

:wakeup

[Spur-Addict]

Yeah! I don't understand a few guys. KT's 36 years old next season. Bring Ian!
KT, Horry, Fin.C'mon guys! Before the new contract for KT I prefer Diop a lot.

I'd take Diop before KT as well. Thomas isn't worth 8 Mil.

[Spur-Addict]

Ariza has a $2.9M player option. Unless he has a monster final, I doubt he will opts out. If he opts out, it won't be to sign for a smaller contract (less than half the MLE).

Trevor is Garb...I'll PASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Spur-Addict]

I'd like to see Sarunas Jasikevicius at the back up point guard position.

[K-State Spur]

I'd take Diop before KT as well. Thomas isn't worth 8 Mil.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that KT plays for fairly large discount compared to Diop next year.

[Blackjack]

I have no problem with Chalmers. Sef doesn't exactly fit in the now. We want to win now. Sef is decent, i'd rather have Kelenna.

How do you figure Sefolosha not fitting now? He's got a couple of years in the league under his belt, and was a bright spot for the Bulls in their playoff run.

He'd be a great role-player immediately with his defensive versatility, yet he has the potential to be one of the best 2-way players in the league over the next couple of years.

[silk]

How do you figure Sefolosha not fitting now? He's got a couple of years in the league under his belt, and was a bright spot for the Bulls in their playoff run.

He'd be a great role-player immediately with his defensive versatility, yet he has the potential to be one of the best 2-way players in the league over the next couple of years.


And Chicago doesn't see all of that , they're gonna let him go for a bag of peanuts ? we don't have a jerry west workin' for us there

As timvp said the focus should be on getting a capable 10 point scorer , nothing exceptionnal, but nothing too shabby either

[ATXSPUR]

I'd rather bring back Michael Finley and lose, than win with a piece of crap like Davis.

It is because of this kind of stubborn holier than thou crap attitude our fo has that we don't repeat.

[Spur-Addict]

It is because of this kind of stubborn holier than thou crap attitude our fo has that we don't repeat.

I think what he means is ..."The end doesn't justify the means"...But I can also see how a team must when every other team is. But, I also do not like Davis, there are better prospects than him out there.

[Spur-Addict]

How do you figure Sefolosha not fitting now? He's got a couple of years in the league under his belt, and was a bright spot for the Bulls in their playoff run.

He'd be a great role-player immediately with his defensive versatility, yet he has the potential to be one of the best 2-way players in the league over the next couple of years.

Every player has potential, every player in the league has potential that is why they are in the league to begin with. I like him, I just don't think we'd need Sef and Ime. One has to go. I feel the need for two bigs and a point coupled with a slasher who can put the ball in the hoop better than Sef on a CONSISTENT basis. We haven't had consistency. I don't think Sef brings a consistent offensive output. Honestly, if we get rid of Ime i'd feel fine about Sef.

[Blackjack]

And Chicago doesn't see all of that , they're gonna let him go for a bag of peanuts ? we don't have a jerry west workin' for us there

As timvp said the focus should be on getting a capable 10 point scorer , nothing exceptionnal, but nothing too shabby either

I never suggested a "bag of peanuts." Shit, if it's gonna take 2 years to get Splitter? Whether it takes some kind of combination of his rights and our 1st, I'd be willing to do it.

To me Bowen's replacement is a bigger priority and waiting on Splitter to save us in 2 years is a pipe-dream.

Splitter is a good player who can fill a role, but I haven't seen anything to make me believe he's going to be a star. We'd probably be better off looking for the next undersized 4/5 like Millsap/Powe/Davis that can fill a role with their toughness and rebounding, if were looking for a bigman role-player. Hell, Turiaf was a 2nd rdr.

[Ocotillo]

You think Danny Ferry could be our mole ( ala Jerry West) and send us Lebron for Bonner, Splitter's rights, some picks and a bag of chips?

On the serious side Udonis Haslem would be nice to have to stick on Dirk and Odom.

[Ghost Writer]

There has been virtually no evidence that the Spurs can address key needs on a long-term basis.

We've been searching for a capable backup PG and starting quality swingman for years.

Whenver we thought we had the answer, that player was gone a season later.

Even when we had all the cp space in the world in 2003, we brought in Rasho.

Honestly, who on the Spurs roster has any trade value outside of the Big 3?


Now we don't have a lot of money.

And have run out of time.







P.S.

Unfortunately, it's going to get worse before it gets better. The Spurs will become an aging team that makes the playoffs, but doesn't go anywhere. Think "Utah Jazz" in Malone and Stockton's final years together.

It's going to take an injury or a terrible season to win us another top lottery pick... the Spurs salvation and historic "plan" for success.

[ChumpDumper]

So give up already.

Thanks for stopping by.

[Ghost Writer]

Point to the contrary.

I'm begging for hope.

I don't see it.

We had a blessed run and now the atrophy begins.

[jag]

I'm begging for hope.



I don't believe you.

[ChumpDumper]

Point to the contrary.

I'm begging for hope.

I don't see it.

We had a blessed run and now the atrophy begins.You know you did this three championships ago.

I want to say you've been a great judge of the Spurs potential every season.

I don't see it.

[T Park]

Point to the contrary.

I'm begging for hope.

I don't see it.

We had a blessed run and now the atrophy begins.

Your begging for attention.

[Holt's Cat]

Point to the contrary.

I'm begging for hope.

I don't see it.

We had a blessed run and now the atrophy begins.


Sorry man, no cash only plastic. Don't come any closer.

[Blackjack]

Point to the contrary.

I'm begging for hope.

I don't see it.

We had a blessed run and now the atrophy begins.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have one 3 of the last 5 titles haven't we? And call me crazy(been called worse) but who on those teams not named Duncan have the Spurs drafted in the lottery?

So if I'm correct, Every player brought in by the F.O. has been through free-agency and late round draft picks.

Yeah, with that kind of resume..... I can totally understand throwing in the towel.

WE'RE FUCKED!!!! :lmao

[Buddy Holly]

now is not the time

I can't believe people still remember that. :lol

Of all your typos and grammar fuck ups, that's probably the one you're best known for.

[timvp]

If the Spurs can recover from David Robinson retiring, the Spurs can recover from Michael Finley and Robert Horry retiring.

WTF?

[Sway]

Here is my take on the roster that may be realistic IF Tiago comes over this year:

Tiago/Oberto
TD/Ian/Bonner
Bruce/Ime/Draft Pick (Long 3)
Azubukie/Manu/Barry
TP/V-Span or Draft Pick

Horry/Finley/Stoudmire/JV will hopefully be gone. Im not a big fan of Vaginis, but then again, can he be worse than JV? If not him than a young prospect like Mario Chalmers could fill this spot. Remember we can still use Barry as a back-up PG. I really like Batum and Alexander to fill the "long 3" role, but I think they will be gone before the Spurs pick. Casspi, Calathes, & Claver may still be available, and should be worth a look. Azubukie would be huge for the Spurs. He would allow Manu to get some much needed rest during the season.

[E20]

If the Spurs can recover from David Robinson retiring, the Spurs can recover from Michael Finley and Robert Horry retiring.

WTF?
We still had a MVP level Tim Duncan and a young Manu and Tony, we could have put mediocre talent around them and still be alright, which we did. Next season we need to try to rest our big 3 and still put up a decent record. Splitters current future with the Spurs is uncertain, and are the Spurs sure enough of how much of an impact Ian will have? Other than that we are left with a low draft pick, the MLE, and LLE, and given that Spurs are small market who would want to come here for the MLE, let alone the LLE? Also our trade bait is composed of Oberto, Bonner, Udoka, Barry, and some others that we can S&T with, taht doesn't sound too appealing for other teams. This is my 1st gloomy doomy post.

[goodtexan]

Is it too much to ask for a center that can dunk and get 10-10?

Or a small forward that is at least 6'-8" and good for 10 points?

Start those two, whoever they are, with BB, TD and TP. Manu back to sixth man and give Barry more minutes at the PG. Oberto off the bench.

[silk]

Tiago won't come, i don't really get why so much people can't get this....

Stop being delusional ( not sure of the word , sorry....)
take the positive side, Ian could develop better ( in France, even before he was drafted, there was an intriguing buzz around him, and the kid certanly has good potential )

No doom and gloom, we still have a 3 year window on a very high level before maybe taking the path of the aging stockton Jazz...

RC has already done decent things with even less assets than now

[ChumpDumper]

Is it too much to ask for a center that can dunk and get 10-10?There are only like five or six of those in the NBA, so it is asking a lot.

[kaji157]

The Suns are more likely going to trade both Diaw and Barbosa, anyone interested in any of these?

[polandprzem]

I have no idea what the spurs can do.

They are in misarble sitiation with refreshing the squad
But I've got a feeling that they will end up with something realy good.


And I realy have not much more interesting to say. Cause most things are repeated over and over again (PG,Ian,"3")


Ps. ChumpDumper da man!

[Holt's Cat]

P.S.

Unfortunately, it's going to get worse before it gets better. The Spurs will become an aging team that makes the playoffs, but doesn't go anywhere. Think "Utah Jazz" in Malone and Stockton's final years together.

Well, Stockton and Malone with 4 Larry O'Brien trophies. If the Spurs don't win another I'm not really going to beat myself up about it.




It's going to take an injury or a terrible season to win us another top lottery pick... the Spurs salvation and historic "plan" for success.

Actually, the "plan" for success after the Spurs looked like they were done 7 years ago worked, did it not? What #1 overall pick turned that around?

Dumbass.

[Nbadan]

Tiago won't come, i don't really get why so much people can't get this....


Cause they're homers!.....DuH!

[Nbadan]

Well, Stockton and Malone with 4 Larry O'Brien trophies. If the Spurs don't win another I'm not really going to beat myself up about it.

Then let's trade Tim and rebuild....is it fair to waste his talents cause the rest of the team, except for Parker and Ginobili on odd numbered years, suck?

[Holt's Cat]

Then let's trade Tim and rebuild....is it fair to waste his talents cause the rest of the team, except for Parker and Ginobili on odd numbered years, suck?

Trade Duncan for the off chance that you may be able to get back to the point of making the WCF in 10 years? pass.

[Bruno]

In today's French newspaper, the journalist who follow Spurs is reporting that he has heard behind the scenes Mike Pietrus, Carlos Delfino, Matt Barnes, Mike Miller and Sasha Vujacic as possible acquisitions.

I don't know how legit it is but it sounds more like players that Spurs tried to get in the past.

[Nbadan]

There's only two players that are untradeable, Parker and Tim....Ginobili used to be untradeable but if the right deal came along the Spurs can't say never anymore...

[Holt's Cat]

In today's French newspaper, the journalist who follow Spurs is reporting that he has heard behind the scenes Mike Pietrus, Carlos Delfino, Matt Barnes, Mike Miller and Sasha Vujacic as possible acquisitions.

I don't know how legit it is but it sounds more like players that Spurs tried to get in the past.

True. Of those I would think that Pietrus, Delfino, and Barnes would be the most likely candidates. If the Spurs come with a 2 or 3 year deal at the MLE for Vujacic, LA will match. And the Spurs will waste time with that charade. The only way the Spurs have a shot is if they are willing to go 4 years at least with him for the full MLE. Then you ask yourself, is he really worth that?

I don't see the Spurs landing Miller unless the Grizz become desperate to dump him.

[E20]

In today's French newspaper, the journalist who follow Spurs is reporting that he has heard behind the scenes Mike Pietrus, Carlos Delfino, Matt Barnes, Mike Miller and Sasha Vujacic as possible acquisitions.

I don't know how legit it is but it sounds more like players that Spurs tried to get in the past.

To the bold :tu.

Pietrus or Sasha wouldn't be bad.

[Nbadan]

Mike Pietrus, Carlos Delfino, Matt Barnes, Mike Miller and Sasha Vujacic as possible acquisitions.

add Turiaf to the list....

[redskinfan]

Bring back Bill Willoughby!!!

[ChumpDumper]

Here are a few D-League players to keep an eye on this summer. I'm sure I'll think of more down the line. None of these players are guaranteed to do anything in the NBA, but they might be able to help out a team now or in the future. One of these guys might have enough potential to latch on to the end of the Spurs' roster. I put a premium on athleticism because I think that's something the Spurs need. Only Alexander and Farmer don't possess above average athleticism.

In alphabetical order:

Chris Alexander
27
7'1" 260 lbs.
Great size. Averaged double-double and 2.0 bpg. This type of player would only be needed if Kurt Thomas was not retained.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=chris_alexander
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/a/alexach01d.html
---

Sean Banks
23
6'8" 210 lbs.

Long SF who appears to have developed some discipline in the triangle offense. Improved his 3pt shooting to the point that he shoots them regularly. Scoring average went from 12.7 to 21.7 ppg in one season

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=sean_banks
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/b/banksse01d.html
---

Rod Benson
23
6'10" 235lbs.

Skinny Mikki Moore type - better rebounding (led the league with 12.1 rpg, 17.2 per 48), less offense than Moore. More of an opportunistic scorer. Improved blocking this season (1.4 bpg) and got to the line much more.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=rod_benson
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/b/bensoro01d.html
---

Desmon Farmer
26
6'5" 215 lbs.
Prolific scorer, good mid and long range shooter. Was able to keep scoring when forced to play the point in March, when he averaged 31.0 ppg and 5.4 apg.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=desmon_farmer
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/f/farmede01d.html
---

Dontell Jefferson
24
6'5" 181 lbs.
Big athletic combo guard, excellent defender. Ended the season in Latvia.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=dontell_jefferson
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/j/jeffedo01d.html
---

Dwayne Mitchell
25
6'3" 208 lbs.
Solid, strong slashing combo guard. 41.5 inch vertical. 6.4 rpg. Needs to shoot better and learn the point. Left for Germany in February.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=dwayne_mitchell
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/m/mitchdw01d.html
---

Brent Petway
23
6'8" 205 lbs.

Dunk contest winner, very raw but has great PF potential, has some face up game with a range resembling Oberto's.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=brent_petway
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/p/petwabr01d.html
---

Brandon Wallace
23
6'9" 205 lbs.
Another freak athlete who averaged 2.4 bpg for the D-Fenders, SF project, started shooting the 3 late in the season.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=brandon_wallace
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/w/wallabr01d.html
---

Down the road?: Marcus Campbell, Daniel Horton, Ivan Johnson, Kevin Kruger. James Peters

[redskinfan]

Here are a few D-League players to keep an eye on this summer. I'm sure I'll think of more down the line. None of these players are guaranteed to do anything in the NBA, but they might be able to help out a team now or in the future. One of these guys might have enough potential to latch on to the end of the Spurs' roster. I put a premium on athleticism because I think that's something the Spurs need. Only Alexander and Farmer don't possess above average athleticism.

In alphabetical order:

Chris Alexander
27
7'1" 260 lbs.
Great size. Averaged double-double and 2.0 bpg. This type of player would only be needed if Kurt Thomas was not retained.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=chris_alexander
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/a/alexach01d.html
---

Sean Banks
23
6'8" 210 lbs.

Long SF who appears to have developed some discipline in the triangle offense. Improved his 3pt shooting to the point that he shoots them regularly. Scoring average went from 12.7 to 21.7 ppg in one season

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=sean_banks
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/b/banksse01d.html
---

Rod Benson
23
6'10" 235lbs.

Skinny Mikki Moore type - better rebounding (led the league with 12.1 rpg, 17.2 per 48), less offense than Moore. More of an opportunistic scorer. Improved blocking this season (1.4 bpg) and got to the line much more.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=rod_benson
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/b/bensoro01d.html
---

Desmon Farmer
26
6'5" 215 lbs.
Prolific scorer, good mid and long range shooter. Was able to keep scoring when forced to play the point in March, when he averaged 31.0 ppg and 5.4 apg.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=desmon_farmer
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/f/farmede01d.html
---

Dontell Jefferson
24
6'5" 181 lbs.
Big athletic combo guard, excellent defender. Ended the season in Latvia.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=dontell_jefferson
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/j/jeffedo01d.html
---

Dwayne Mitchell
25
6'3" 208 lbs.
Solid, strong slashing combo guard. 41.5 inch vertical. 6.4 rpg. Needs to shoot better and learn the point. Left for Germany in February.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=dwayne_mitchell
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/m/mitchdw01d.html
---

Brent Petway
23
6'8" 205 lbs.

Dunk contest winner, very raw but has great PF potential, has some face up game with a range resembling Oberto's.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=brent_petway
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/p/petwabr01d.html
---

Brandon Wallace
23
6'9" 205 lbs.
Another freak athlete who averaged 2.4 bpg for the D-Fenders, SF project, started shooting the 3 late in the season.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=brandon_wallace
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/w/wallabr01d.html
---

Down the road?: Marcus Campbell, Daniel Horton, Ivan Johnson, Kevin Kruger. James Peters

Dude they are in the D-League for a reason. And that reason is they suck!

[ChumpDumper]

Dude they are in the D-League for a reason. And that reason is they suck!Yeah that's why we signed Udoka and are talking about signing Azubuike.

I already gave the disclaimer that they may not do anything in the NBA.

So kindly fuck yourself, you piece of shit.

[Biggems]

Dude they are in the D-League for a reason. And that reason is they suck!

this coming from a fan of a team that drafted heath shuler, signed danny awful, traded for brandon lloyd.......your team sucks and their name is racist.

the DLeague is a legit developmental league. When they get to the DLeague, they are not NBA ready. However, some of those players use the playing time to improve their games and are able to make a successful jump to the NBA.

[Mr. Body]

A Jermario Moon type out of that list would be excellent. The fact of the Toros makes it slightly more possible the Spurs have their heads out of their asses on this stuff.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, the fact that Moon was 27 his rookie year makes it slightly more difficult to write off the slightly older lower league players.

Wallace is probably the closest to Moon at this point.

[SenorSpur]

OK. Like everyone else, I wanted to "weigh in" on my plan to fix the Spurs. Since Splitter is likely not coming this year or next, there is still a big hole that exists on the frontline. Even with Mahinmi on the way, the Spurs badly need to fill the backup 4-5 spots as Duncan needs a defensive running mate. Here goes:

Option A:
Desgana Diop (C)
Ronny Turiaf (PF)
Mikael Pietrus (SG)

Option B:
Desgana Diop (C)
Eduardo Najera (PF)
Kelenna Azubuike (SG)

Option C:
Desgana Diop (C)
James Jones (SF)
Kyle Lowry (PG)

I've included Diop in every scenario because I feel he would give the Spurs the added shot-blocker, rebounder and defensive presence they've lacked since D-Rob retired. His arrival will help the Spurs contend against the suddenly taller, bigger frontlines of the West (Fakers, Blazers, Suns) Diop could be had for a 2-year contract, which would offset the expected 2-year wait for Splitter and some leverage in case he never shows. Chip Engelland could work with him on his shooting to help improve his offense (as he's done for Oberto). I would still recommend the Spurs seek to retain Kurt Thomas for at least another year.

Departures:
Finley
Horry
Stoudamire
Bonner or Vaughn

As for the upcoming draft, the Spurs should still plan on drafting a young swingman (SF-type), who has the potential to be a solid defender, at their pick #26. Either Brandon Rush (I'm sure he'll be gone), Nicolas Bantum or Courtney Lee.

They should seek to find a backup PG in the second round. Perhaps packaging those two picks to move up early in the round to get the best PG available. If not, they should seek to trade the two second round picks (and whatever else) for a number one next year.

I would also recommend they give DeMarr Johnson a fair shot to earn a roster spot. He could be valuable to them as a spot-up shooter to replace Finley. He's got NBA experience and has been in the system for a bit. He deserves a long look. If the Sprus cannot obtain a backup PG either via draft or free agency, they should give Darius Washington another look. If he's progressed even an inch since last season, he can't be any worse than Jacque Vaughn.

Overall, part of the Spurs problem is they don't have a ready-to-go pipeline of talent to infuse onto the roster. That said, the siwngman position is the position in the most dire straits. With Manu coming off the summer Olympics and getting a year older, the Spurs need to add at least 2 swingmen into the mix for next year. No less than that. Adding one via draft and one via free agency is the way to go. I still hold out hope that Johnson can work his way into the rotation as a 3rd possible option.

[Ghost Writer]

I admire ChumpDumper and SenorSpur for coming up with options, but even if the Spurs added half those D-leaguers and half those free agents, how would that close the gap?

The Lakers, Hornets and maybe even the Jazz will all be able to match or trump are Big Three next year. And then they have better bench players.


I truly believe that the Spurs need a "homerun" type player to keep pace.

It's time to gamble on a guy with a questionable character that can make a difference.

[silk]

A lot of our trade scenarios need to take account of the cap situation; we only have the M.L.E, rights to Splitter, drafts picks (3),L.L.E, and probably Bonner, Vaughn,Oberto contracts to deal

Najera could be a useful defensive player for our mismaches against mobile PF or big SF

But the first choice for front office would probably be to resign kurt thomas, which will eat a good portion of the MLE, then, with a small fraction of the MLE left, do we really have enough to hire the service of most of the players mentionned above ?

If somebody could make a better and clearer recap of what our assets ( combinations..) are, i would be grateful

[ChumpDumper]

I admire ChumpDumper and SenorSpur for coming up with options, but even if the Spurs added half those D-leaguers and half those free agents, how would that close the gap?I was talking about end of bench projects.

Why do people have such a difficult time understanding this?

We can talk about the big score all we want. The roster will have to be filled whether that score happens or not.

It's time to gamble on a guy with a questionable character that can make a difference.Fine.

Who?

[Ghost Writer]

The Spurs have no one of value to trade outside the Big 3.

How do you think they founf their way to the Spurs?

These were players that were to old to get resigned, so the Spurs signed them.

There's like four (4) fvcking waived players on the Spurs roster.

[ChumpDumper]

So who?

[Biggems]

I admire ChumpDumper and SenorSpur for coming up with options, but even if the Spurs added half those D-leaguers and half those free agents, how would that close the gap?

The Lakers, Hornets and maybe even the Jazz will all be able to match or trump are Big Three next year. And then they have better bench players.


I truly believe that the Spurs need a "homerun" type player to keep pace.

It's time to gamble on a guy with a questionable character that can make a difference.

How will the Hornets trump the Spurs? They had HCA against us and still lost the series.

The Lakers should get better next year if Bynum is healthy, but that doesn't guarantee a trip to the Finals or even the title. They will be a very tough challenge, but if we add the right pieces and draft wisely, we will be right there with them. The only reasons the Lakers beat us was cause they rebounded better and our shooting sucked. Mahimni will help our rebounding....so would Diop. As for shooting....James Jones and a draft pick or two should cover that. Also, Barry showed he is a very nice option to backup Tony.

[Ghost Writer]

I really don't know.

I mean, who is going to want to be the fourth option on the Spurs?


I'd love to take a chance on Artest, because I do believe in redemption and he is basically Bowen with the benefit of an offensive skill set. Plus, I think he'd add grit to the team.


Monta Eliis will want to much to come to SA and he'll land somewhere where he can be featured more.


Perhaps, mixing a couple D-leaguers with a couple second tier FAs like you and Senor suggested would be a step in the right direction, but we really need just one impact player and maybe 2 new, younger contributors off the bench.


The b1tch is that I don't see any tradeable commodities on the Spurs and we know our track record in free agency.

The Spurs will go down with the Big Three over the next few years.

That's why I see a decline as an inevitable.

[ChumpDumper]

True, I disagree with the contention that the Spurs are now done if they don't get a fourth max level player. It would be nice, but getting some young guys who can play and preserve the big three or step in for one of them if necessary could work just as well. In short, the Spurs could use some young guys who can score while playing Spurs defense.

[SenorSpur]

How will the Hornets trump the Spurs? They had HCA against us and still lost the series.

The Lakers should get better next year if Bynum is healthy, but that doesn't guarantee a trip to the Finals or even the title. They will be a very tough challenge, but if we add the right pieces and draft wisely, we will be right there with them. The only reasons the Lakers beat us was cause they rebounded better and our shooting sucked. Mahimni will help our rebounding....so would Diop. As for shooting....James Jones and a draft pick or two should cover that. Also, Barry showed he is a very nice option to backup Tony.

All apologies to Barry, he did a nice job filling in, but if Pop has to resort to that again, he's in trouble. I'd just as soon he get a true backup PG or bring back Darius Washington for another look.

[Ghost Writer]

The Hornets will only get better. The only weak link in their starting 5 is Mo Pete and the Spurs used their will and experience to beat them in 7.

Chump, I don't know about max level, but we need a fourth scorer from an unexpected source... a trade, the draft, etc.

The one thing that we do know is that no one can emerge if we continue to restock with guys that are past their prime.


Nawmeen?

[jag]

I really think Dermarr should get a shot at making the roster, a long athletic guy who can shoot from the outside...i don't know what kinda D he plays though.

[ChumpDumper]

I think JR Smith is a realistic target since Denver is in tax hell right now and could be making several moves this summer.

I am and have always been for getting young guys. It's unfortunate our projects the last two seasons didn't pan out, but that is the nature of projects.

[jag]

I think JR Smith is a realistic target since Denver is in tax hell right now and could be making several moves this summer.

I am and have always been for getting young guys. It's unfortunate our projects the last two seasons didn't pan out, but that is the nature of projects.

In that list of D-leaguers ...where does/would Keith Langford fit? He's in Europe now but he might be back in the states in the offseason, no?

[ChumpDumper]

In that list of D-leaguers ...where does/would Keith Langford fit? Since it's alphabetical, he would fit between Jefferson and Mitchell.
He's in Europe now but he might be back in the states in the offseason, no?He's certainly near the top of any list of players who could possibly break through to the NBA, though he needs to prove he can run the point. If he follows his usual MO, he should be back in summer league and with the Toros if another team doesn't pick him up.

[Mr. Body]

The b1tch is that I don't see any tradeable commodities on the Spurs and we know our track record in free agency.

The Spurs will go down with the Big Three over the next few years.

That's why I see a decline as an inevitable.

The Spurs have had tunnel vision for about three years now. They were extremely fortunate to have available talented older players who fit the system like Oberto and Finley. Finley was a cast-off of a one-time only rule, after all.

But when they needed to adjust, they failed to do it. They needed to adjust two things: 1) the front office needed to adjust their 'all foreigners all the time' route to drafting; and 2) Pop needed to adjust to different kinds of players and personalities.

Instead the F.O. still looks woefully behind in finding talent, while Toronto is finding Jermario Moon, New York and then Portland are finding Ime Udoka (finally a Spur), and they are almost hopeless when it comes to drafting.

Pop has not been good at using the talent available. They're kind of crappy, but he had Bonner and Udrih and Devin Brown, all guys who had some talent in some degree, but they didn't fit his type of basketball. And Luis Scola apparently didn't, either.

Now the team is forced to switch into these new modes. Can they adjust before it is finally too late? Or will they slowly decay? I'm seeing a few years of 2nd round exits, like Utah 'suffered' through in the end of the Malone/Stockton era. That's not bad, but it's not greatness.

[jag]

Since it's alphabetical, he would fit between Jefferson and Mitchell.He's certainly near the top of any list of players who could possibly break through to the NBA, though he needs to prove he can run the point. If he follows his usual MO, he should be back in summer league and with the Toros if another team doesn't pick him up.

:lol I really like everything i've seen from him and heard about him, the only problem is his size...and i seriously doubt he could ever play backup point, he'd have to stick with being an undersized 2.

[tav1]

In today's French newspaper, the journalist who follow Spurs is reporting that he has heard behind the scenes Mike Pietrus, Carlos Delfino, Matt Barnes, Mike Miller and Sasha Vujacic as possible acquisitions.

I don't know how legit it is but it sounds more like players that Spurs tried to get in the past.

Bruno, does this mean the well is dry on Siskauskas, or is this to be taken with a grain of salt?

And Mike Miller would require a trade: Splitter rights, Bonner and what? Memphis is not going to take a sign and trade for Horry, correct? Finley is not eager to spend a year in Memphis.

Pietrus, Delfino, and Vujacic (asshole) make sense. I'm surprised that James Jones, especially given his unrestricted status, is not in the mix. His inability to put the ball of the floor hurts him, I bet. Of the above, I prefer Delfino.

[FromWayDowntown]

There has been virtually no evidence that the Spurs can address key needs on a long-term basis.

Damn -- short term solutions have only brought 3 titles!! What terrible management efforts.


We've been searching for . . . starting quality swingman for years.

You mean other than Ginobili and Bowen?


Whenver we thought we had the answer, that player was gone a season later.

In other words, the Spurs have found the players that fit their needs, they just haven't been able to keep them because other clubs can offer more minutes and more money. Reality bites.


P.S.

Unfortunately, it's going to get worse before it gets better. The Spurs will become an aging team that makes the playoffs, but doesn't go anywhere. Think "Utah Jazz" in Malone and Stockton's final years together.

It's going to take an injury or a terrible season to win us another top lottery pick... the Spurs salvation and historic "plan" for success.

Weren't you just arguing a few months ago that the Spurs should approach free agency and trades more like those Jazz did and denying that it took the Jazz getting really bad before they could get really good again?

[K-State Spur]

I know a lot of people like Diop - but there are a couple of downsides to him IMHO.

His presence would make it easier for opponents to double Duncan in the post. I'm also not sure that Fab isn't actually a better option to defend the quicker PFs in the league.

I wouldn't necessarily be against his addition, but I think he'll be pretty pricey for a guy who is more of a match-up guy. A better defensive, lesser offensive KT.

[SenorSpur]

I really think Dermarr should get a shot at making the roster, a long athletic guy who can shoot from the outside...i don't know what kinda D he plays though.

I understand his lateral quickness is not what it once was, since he came back from that near-fatal car accident. However, I fully agree with you. He's got a good stroke and I believe he can get to the basket against an average or below average defenders.

[Marcus Bryant]

I understand his lateral quickness is not what it once was, since he came back from that near-fatal car accident. However, I fully agree with you. He's got a good stroke and I believe he can get to the basket against an average or below average defenders.

He's got length, some offense, and can run the floor. Defense can be learned.

[ChumpDumper]

DerMarr completely shut down people in Austin when he put his mind to it. He just didn't do it all that often. I can't quite get a line on his motivation. He certainly was the best option for a call up from the Toros at the time. I guess well see if the Spurs think he is worth keeping.

[Marcus Bryant]

Problem is, where would he fit in? I'm assuming Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, and Udoka return. The 5th swingman spot would appear to be the place, but if the Spurs add a FA swingman then there's no room on the active roster. And of course Sanikidze could be coming in.

[jag]

Problem is, where would he fit in? I'm assuming Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, and Udoka return. The 5th swingman spot would appear to be the place, but if the Spurs add a FA swingman then there's no room on the active roster. And of course Sanikidze could be coming in.

Maybe the Spurs look to sign a big man (assuming Splitter doesn't come) and/or a quality backup point. I dont think it's the case, but maybe Sanikidze or Dermarr could be the 5th swingman and the spurs just look to fill the other 2 spots.

[timvp]

DerMarr Johnson is probably the most overlooked Spur. His skillset is pretty damn similar to Stephen Jackson. He's even taller and even longer ... which is nice with the giant azz Lakers now seemingly the team to beat.

I hope Johnson plays in summer league and shows he's continuing to work on his game. He's 28 and he's been given up on a number of times so he's probably in a good frame of mind in terms of doing whatever the Spurs want.

If he plays well in summer league, he should definitely go to training camp and be given a legit shot. A long, athletic perimeter player who can shoot isn't something you come across everyday. I know he's damaged goods and not too much of an exciting prospect at this point, but you never know when a guy will figure it all out like Stephen Jackson in '03.

[Mr. Body]

Wasn't DerMarr like the #5 draft pick or something? Wow.

I'm not sure how far the Stephen Jackson comparison goes. Sounds like the 'Matt Bonner will take Horry's role!' posts from earlier in the season. A similar skill set does not equal the same player. Besides, I think DerMarr has corralled all of 2 rebounds his entire career.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bonner will probably get consistent PT next season. Having a 4 who can shoot the 3 isn't a bad thing.

[tav1]

Bonner will probably get consistent PT next season. Having a 4 who can shoot the 3 isn't a bad thing.

The only thing I want from Bonner is cap relief.

[Marcus Bryant]

DerMarr Johnson is probably the most overlooked Spur. His skillset is pretty damn similar to Stephen Jackson. He's even taller and even longer ... which is nice with the giant azz Lakers now seemingly the team to beat.

I hope Johnson plays in summer league and shows he's continuing to work on his game. He's 28 and he's been given up on a number of times so he's probably in a good frame of mind in terms of doing whatever the Spurs want.

If he plays well in summer league, he should definitely go to training camp and be given a legit shot. A long, athletic perimeter player who can shoot isn't something you come across everyday. I know he's damaged goods and not too much of an exciting prospect at this point, but you never know when a guy will figure it all out like Stephen Jackson in '03.

The risk-reward ratio is appealing. Guys like Johnson and Mahinmi would indeed add some length and athleticism to the supporting cast. 6'9" shooting guard who can shoot the 3 sounds pretty good these days.

Johnson had two solid reserve years with the Nuggets prior to his last one. Not sure what happened. I'm guessing he just got squeezed out of PT due to JR Smith and whoever else.

[Marcus Bryant]

The only thing I want from Bonner is cap relief.

Relief for what? Bonner's contract hasn't preventing the Spurs from doing anything.

[Mr. Body]

Bonner will probably get consistent PT next season. Having a 4 who can shoot the 3 isn't a bad thing.

Jesus, man. This isn't late October 07. You need to revise your opinion.

[Mr. Body]

Relief for what? Bonner's contract hasn't preventing the Spurs from doing anything.

Signing Scola?

[jag]

The only thing I want from Bonner is cap relief.

:lol he's a hustle guy who can hit the 3...he could really help spread the floor if he found a way to stay outa pops doghouse. He's pretty much danny ferry without the experience...not sure if that's what the spurs really want right now, but that's how i see his role.

[timvp]

A similar skill set does not equal the same player.Where did I say he'd equal the same player? I said he has a similar skillset .... and he does. There's a 95% chance Johnson doesn't amount to anything but that 5% is still worth a look.

He fits what the Spurs would hypothetically be looking for. We'll see if he can flourish in summer league or if he'll be this year's James White.

[Marcus Bryant]

Signing Scola?

They didn't want Scola. The decision wasn't Bonner over Scola it was Splitter over Scola.

[Marcus Bryant]

Jesus, man. This isn't late October 07. You need to revise your opinion.

How so? Bonner got squeezed out of minutes with a loaded frontcourt rotation. When Horry came back then Bonner ceased to see the court.

Jesus, man, your Bonner vendetta is absurd.

[Mr. Body]

It's just a bit silly to mention him as having similar skills as Jackson. You mostly meant he could suddenly figure the game out, which is fine. Dubious, but fine.

[Mr. Body]

How so? Bonner got squeezed out of minutes with a loaded frontcourt rotation. When Horry came back then Bonner ceased to see the court.

Jesus, man, your Bonner vendetta is absurd.

Not really. Bonner's strictly end-of-the-bench material. Even Toronto understood this. Why anyone beyond extreeeeem optimism would claim otherwise is baffling. He is what he is.

[timvp]

It's just a bit silly to mention him as having similar skills as Jackson. You mostly meant he could suddenly figure the game out, which is fine. Dubious, but fine.Similar skillset. Who would you compare Johnson to? Long perimeter shooter with decent athleticism and can play D when he wants. For comparison sakes, I don't get why you have a problem saying Johnson is a poor man's Jackson.

[timvp]

How so? Bonner got squeezed out of minutes with a loaded frontcourt rotation. When Horry came back then Bonner ceased to see the court.

Jesus, man, your Bonner vendetta is absurd.Yeah, I'm not sold one way or another on Bonner. 2007-08 didn't tell us anything regarding Bonner. He was playing pretty well early on when the Spurs got out to their 17-3 start. Other bigs got healthy, Thomas was brought in and Bonner was buried on the bench.

Nothing changed for Bonner between last summer when the Spurs gave him that contract and right now. Perhaps the Spurs will want to go in a different direction but it's not like '08 was a huge failure for Bonner. No matter how he played, he wasn't going to beat out Horry, Oberto and Thomas for minutes.

[jag]

Similar skillset. Who would you compare Johnson to? Long perimeter shooter with decent athleticism and can play D when he wants. For comparison sakes, I don't get why you have a problem saying Johnson is a poor man's Jackson.

Dermarr might actually be more athletic...and more of what the Spurs are looking for. His length and outside shooting makes me want to see him get a chance with some minutes.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Similar skillset. Who would you compare Johnson to? Long perimeter shooter with decent athleticism and can play D when he wants. For comparison sakes, I don't get why you have a problem saying Johnson is a poor man's Jackson.

Come on LJ, this is typical Mr. Body. Unless it's a guy he likes, he's going to run him down, even if he has to say the same crap 50 different ways in the same thread.

[tav1]

How so? Bonner got squeezed out of minutes with a loaded frontcourt rotation. When Horry came back then Bonner ceased to see the court.

Jesus, man, your Bonner vendetta is absurd.

You've bought into the Matt Bonner myth.

He wasn't squeezed out of the rotation, he played his way out. Did you watch Robert Horry this season? He's awful. If Bonner can't beat the ghost of Horry for a spot in the rotation, he isn't gonna beat anybody. And it was Elson, not Thomas, that "squeezed" Bonner out. Yes, that Elson.

So it's not a vendetta, it's the fact that Bonner's 3 pt. shooting is overrated and he is a defensive liabilty. In theory, his (suppossed) ability to space the floor looks good on paper. It simply hasn't panned out. We don't need another Beno. If we can cut out losses, then cut them.

Besides the 3 million, he's eating up a roster spot that could be put to better use, even if it were designated to Austin. Matt Bonner will be of no help in overcoming the Lakers.

[Mr. Body]

Come on LJ, this is typical Mr. Body. Unless it's a guy he likes, he's going to run him down, even if he has to say the same crap 50 different ways in the same thread.

Isn't this true of everyone on the board? I've supported Javtokas (over Elson), got run down for it. Suddenly he's a bit rescendent. I think Bonner's extremely limited and no great hopes should be pinned on him. I think any kinds of comparisons between DerMarr Johnson and Stephen Jackson are completely unwarranted. DJ is a good jumpshooter with a lackadaisical attitude who can't rebound but plays pretty good defense from time to time. That I don't see him as an answer to any of our problems is hardly surprising - it takes a huge stretch to imagine him in the rotation.

[Mr. Body]

Matt Bonner will be of no help in overcoming the Lakers.

I'm surprised it has to be to point out Bonner's 26 point 17 rebound performance against them early on, one of the great shimmering mirages of the season.

[E20]

With Bonner, he has to work hard over the summer on his game. I'd be all for him playing for summer league teams (can he?). We see how he is in the begining of the season, test him out, if he isn't capable then we raise his value and try to trade him or just put him in the dog house. If Bonner can consistently hit the 3 ball, he'd go great against the Lakers, his man would have to guard him, freeing up the paint for TD, TP, and Manu.

[timvp]

DJ is a good jumpshooter with a lackadaisical attitude who can't rebound but plays pretty good defense from time to time. And that differs from SJax circa '02 how exactly? SJax had attitude questions and was an extremely poor rebounder for his size. All SJax had back then was length and a high release point on his jumper. DJ now has *gasp* length and a high release point on his jumper.

What huge talent/skillset difference am I missing between DJ today and '02 SJax?

[ChumpDumper]

Matt's not going to play summer league, nor should he. Bonner is certainly tradeable, but if not, he'll get another chance in training camp. Horry is too old to be a rotation player and no other big man can spread the floor like that.

[redskinfan]

DerMarr completely shut down people in Austin when he put his mind to it. He just didn't do it all that often. I can't quite get a line on his motivation. He certainly was the best option for a call up from the Toros at the time. I guess well see if the Spurs think he is worth keeping.

who the fuck did he shut down? other d-leaguers? dumbass.........

[ChumpDumper]

who the fuck did he shut down? other d-leaguers? dumbass.........What is your problem, asshole? Did you fail an open tryout?

[redskinfan]

What is your problem, asshole? Did you fail an open tryout?

sorry bro I didnt have breakfast this morning

[Mr. Body]

And that differs from SJax circa '02 how exactly? SJax had attitude questions and was an extremely poor rebounder for his size. All SJax had back then was length and a high release point on his jumper. DJ now has *gasp* length and a high release point on his jumper.

What huge talent/skillset difference am I missing between DJ today and '02 SJax?

One could actually play in the NBA.

[ChumpDumper]

sorry bro I didnt have breakfast this morningI'm just speculating about his ability versus his motivation based on what I saw this season. I am in no way saying he can shut down NBA players on a regular basis.

[redskinfan]

I'm just speculating about his ability versus his motivation based on what I saw this season. I am in no way saying he can shut down NBA players on a regular basis.

I know I am just frustrated how this season ended and our lack of developing talent..

[ChumpDumper]

I agree. It stinks that our projects from the last two seasons worked out.

[Mr. Body]

I agree. It stinks that our projects from the last two seasons worked out.

If you don't mind me asking... what projects? There's Bonner... Mahinmi... and who else? Are we counting Marcus Williams?

[ChumpDumper]

If you don't mind me asking... what projects? There's Bonner... Mahinmi... and who else? Are we counting Marcus Williams?Yes.

James White.

Darius Washington.

That will be the extent of my bitching. I hereby challenge every poster here to make it through the offseason without mentioning something you think the Spurs should have done in the past, only saying what you think should happen next.

Can you do it?

[T Park]

amazing how everyone forelorned the loss of Washington, but other teams in the NBA never picked him up.

[Spur-Addict]

The only thing I want from Bonner is cap relief.

AGREED

:clap

[T Park]

trading bonner doesn't bring cap relief.

[Mr. Body]

Yes.

James White.

Darius Washington.

That will be the extent of my bitching. I hereby challenge every poster here to make it through the offseason without mentioning something you think the Spurs should have done in the past, only saying what you think should happen next.

Can you do it?

No. Nor do I want to.

[ChumpDumper]

No. Nor do I want to.True enough. You wouldn't have a got damn thing to say otherwise.

[mojorizen7]

Go get Artest.

[Mr. Body]

True enough. You wouldn't have a got damn thing to say otherwise.

:lol

No, I've been saying a lot about the future, too. I'm just never going to shut up about the Luis Scola stuff. It's rare a first class franchise turns stupid all of a sudden like that.

Are you upset I think Bonner's not a good player? *weep* *weep*

[ChumpDumper]

I'm just never going to shut up

[Mr. Body]

Why would I? I'm not going to go all Pollyanna in my frilly sundress and pigtails. A sober assessment of the past helps build for the future. It also slags the morons who either did or defended the moves.

[ChumpDumper]

A sober assessment of the past helps build for the future.How?

How do your bitch posts about the past help build the future for the Spurs?

[Mr. Body]

How?

How do your bitch posts about the past help build the future for the Spurs?

CEO of a company shits the bed for several quarters and you say "Let's just looka tha future, neva minda past?" I hope you own no stocks. Your business model sucks.

[ChumpDumper]

CEO of a company shits the bed for several quarters and you say "Let's just looka tha future, neva minda past?" I hope you own no stocks. Your business model sucks.Do you own the Spurs?

Yes or no.

[T Park]

CEO of a company shits the bed for several quarters and you say "Let's just looka tha future, neva minda past?" I hope you own no stocks. Your business model sucks.

Your living in the past breeds nothing but people tuning it out and not giving a shit.

[Mr. Body]

Chump, seriously dude, your posts are making no sense anymore. I don't know what your timezone is, but it's time to log off for a while. Your responses are barely in the same zip code of what I've just said.

[Mr. Body]

Your living in the past breeds nothing but people tuning it out and not giving a shit.

So tune it out.

[T Park]

So tune it out.

No, stop wasting bandwidth and oxygen.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump, seriously dude, your posts are making no sense anymore. I don't know what your timezone is, but it's time to log off for a while. Your responses are barely in the same zip code of what I've just said.So tune it out.