Get Refuel: How To Rebuild For 2008-09

[tav1]

The Spurs had a great season, but they weren't good enough to win another championship. What are their biggest areas of concern this offseason? How do they address those concerns? How close are they to another championship?

[ducks]

now is not the time

[Ghost Writer]

Easy. This is the Spurs formula:

1. Tank a season.

2. Win the lottery.

3. Add another all franchise center next to your previous #1 pick.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[thekingrobert]

get other players that can create their own shots

[Avitus1]

Get rid of Finley, Stoudemire, Vaughn, and retire Horry.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Oberto, KT, Ime, Brent, Bruce.

Drop Fin, Rob, JV, Damon.

Bonner... I dunno.

Bring in Mahinmi and Splitter... oops... and another young big.

Sign James Jones or Carlos Delfino to some part of the MLE, and grab another young swing with the rest, draft a backup PG.

Make another run.

The Big 3 have 3 years left together. Keep tilting at the trophy.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This guy needs to be our starting 2guard next year.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/1/1a/Act_kelenna_azubuike.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Ghost is one happy motherfucker right now.

[Mr. Body]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Oberto, KT, Ime, Brent, Bruce.

Drop Fin, Rob, JV, Damon.

Bonner... I dunno.

Bring in Mahinmi and Splitter... oops... and another young big.

Sign James Jones or Carlos Delfino to some part of the MLE, and grab another young swing with the rest, draft a backup PG.

Make another run.

The Big 3 have 3 years left together. Keep tilting at the trophy.

I honestly don't think this cuts it. It's fairly much what they'll do, but I don't think it's enough for contention.

[Kori Ellis]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.

[T Park]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.

I can see that stuff happening.

A bruce Jr? I just don't know if that guy is out there.

Back up point is out there, doubt the Spurs can get it.


The team is NOT as far off as some think.

Tweaks, not overhauls are needed.

[Mr. Body]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.

What a mouthful!

I doubt Bonner, Udoka, and/or Oberto can get you much on the market. Maybe Oberto to a team needing vet savvy.

What a weak FA class it is. Azbuike might be okay, Childress would be optimal but is not available.

You need a SF, a SG, a PG all with fairly bad draft picks.

This will be a monumental task for a GM crew that hasn't been next to stellar since lucking out with Parker and Ginobili. I doubt they can roll 7s something like 5-7 times in a row.

[Ghost Writer]

Ghost is one happy motherfucker right now.
I'm fvcking p1ssed off.

Why is it that every time the Spurs win a title, the front office doesn't look at the reasons why and just assumes that if they roll virtually the same team out there, the results will be the same.


Beyond frustrating.

[Ocotillo]

Where is the Memphis GM when you need ot make a deal?

[Kori Ellis]

What a mouthful!

I doubt Bonner, Udoka, and/or Oberto can get you much on the market. Maybe Oberto to a team needing vet savvy.

What a weak FA class it is. Azbuike might be okay, Childress would be optimal but is not available.

You need a SF, a SG, a PG all with fairly bad draft picks.

This will be a monumental task for a GM crew that hasn't been next to stellar since lucking out with Parker and Ginobili. I doubt they can roll 7s something like 5-7 times in a row.

Oh, I know those players don't get you much. I don't expect much from them. But hell, the Spurs got Hedo and Mercer for Danny Ferry's retired contract once. :lol

[MagnusKrauss]

+1 kori

we can't just keep on leaning on veterans. we need to have new talent coming in. preferably athletic swingmen who can score.

the journey for the fifth championship continues.

go spurs! :flag:

[Bruno]

First things to do :
- Send Pop and/or RC in Spain to see if Splitter is really lost.
- Check who want to retire or go elsewhere.
- Look at draft prospects.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Kori, you don't mention Thomas. We have his Bird rights, no?

I'd be happy to see them trade Bonner/Oberto, maybe Ime if we were getting back a really athletic two who can score and defend like Kelenna.

Maybe better not to draft a PG and go for an athletic 3/4 since the point takes so long to learn. We can probably find a decent point for the LLE.

[BiZNicK]

Bring in Darius Washington. I like his energy

[Kori Ellis]

First things to do :
- Send Pop and/or RC in Spain to see if Splitter is really lost.
- Check who want to retire or go elsewhere.
- Look at draft prospects.

What's the deal with the latest reports? I haven't read the Splitter thread at all.

[Mr. Body]

Oh, I know those players don't get you much. I don't expect much from them. But hell, the Spurs got Hedo and Mercer for Danny Ferry's retired contract once. :lol

True, but the architect of that wizardry now works for another team.

[lefty]

Get rid of Finley, Stoudemire, Vaughn, and retire Horry.

And Oberto.

The man can't beat Farmar on a rebound.

Even Mugsy Bogues jumped higher than him

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm fvcking p1ssed off.

Why is it that every time the Spurs win a title, the front office doesn't look at the reasons why and just assumes that if they roll virtually the same team out there, the results will be the same.


Beyond frustrating.

Spurs fans are some spoiled motherfuckers. Then there's Ghost.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, you don't mention Thomas. We have his Bird rights, no?

I'd be happy to see them trade Bonner/Oberto, maybe Ime if we were getting back a really athletic two who can score and defend like Kelenna.

Maybe better not to draft a PG and go for an athletic 3/4 since the point takes so long to learn. We can probably find a decent point for the LLE.

Yeah I am not a Kurt Thomas fan. So I don't care if he's here or not. He played well tonight though. Yes, they have his Bird rights.

[lefty]

We need hungry younger guys; just additions though, no major overhaul.

Look at the young Celtics scrubs.

Or look at what Joe Dumars did with Rodney Stuckey, Jason Maxiell...

[Sigz]

The Spurs need to be more ghetto. Fuck.

Bring in a 6 foot 7 SG who can be athletic enough to create his own shot... Maker sure he's got an arm sleeve too.

[Bruno]

What's the deal with the latest reports? I haven't read the Splitter thread at all.

He hasn't signed his extension for the moment and will make his choice after the Spanish league final. The last game of the final will be on June 3rd, 5th or 8th.

[T Park]

I think bring back Kurt Thomas if for nothing else, to have a solid 12th man on the bench.

[T Park]

He hasn't signed his extension for the moment and will make his choice after the Spanish league final. The last game of the final will be on June 3rd, 5th or 8th.


God should we all sign a big "Sign with us Tiago" card? :lmao

[Indazone]

yeah, well this should be interesting. 10 million for Splitter wow!

[gameFACE]

Artest.

[Kori Ellis]

I think bring back Kurt Thomas if for nothing else, to have a solid 12th man on the bench.

If they can get both Splitter and Mahinmi here and they are ready, then I wouldn't waste a roster space on him.

[T Park]

If they can get both Splitter and Mahinmi here and they are ready, then I wouldn't waste a roster space on him.

Still though, your 4th big is Kurt Thomas, a guy that can tutor Mahinmi and Splitter along with Duncan.

More than likely though another team brings him on, but if you can get him cheap, I think you bring him back.

[Ghost Writer]

Artest.

The move that should've been made this year.


Quite frankly, outside of the Big 3, who on the Spurs would any other team actually covet?


The roster is comprised of waiver wire guys and old veterans that no one else wants.

Go down the list of current Spurs and at least four (4) have been waived.

[ATXSPUR]

James White!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SenorSpur]

The changing landscape of the Western Confernece dictates that the Spurs will need more size. If Splitter is definitely staying in Spain, they should go after Desgana Diop @ about a 2-yr deal. Sure he's offensively challenged, but he's good rebounder and terrific shot-blocker.

I'm tired of seeing Duncan battling the opposition's frontline solo. He needs help at both ends.

[SenorSpur]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.

I like this strategy. I'd love for them to come out of this draft with either Brandon Rush or Nicolas Bantum.

Of course, Pop is such a stubborn ol' cuss, that he'll probably do another draft-n-stash of yet another Euro player.

[gameFACE]

James White!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lmao:lmao

[pad300]

I can see that stuff happening.

A bruce Jr? I just don't know if that guy is out there.

Back up point is out there, doubt the Spurs can get it.


The team is NOT as far off as some think.

Tweaks, not overhauls are needed.


Agreed, halfway decent, consistent play from the SG spot would have won this series. Between Manu and Finley sucking, we had 2 games of shit from the SG spot (1 & 2) and a 2 game hole, including a 20 pt lead blown. The only decent SG we had this series was Brent (counting Bruce as SF) he only got to play in 2 games in practical terms (~50 minutes in 4 and 5 combined). I think we could have won game 4 if we had had some more Brent in the game. Hell, he should probably have had more minutes in Game 5, but Pop gambled on Manu pulling it out in the last game of the season. Not a bad gamble, but he probably should have gone away from it earlier...


I will say that a decent mobile big man would help a lot next to Duncan...Especially because Pop appears to be afraid to play Duncan and KT together because of mobility issues.

[Texas_Ranger]

We just need a good Center, cause Oberto sucks. If KT stays thats fine with me, but still. Also, we need a backup PG. So draft a PG, and get some FA center, or at least get James Jones.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Not to mention they still have Bird Rights to Horry and Finley. Howabout finding a team wanting to clear cap space, and either of those two can be cap filler/retirement moves for teams in exchange for taking back a bad contract with a good player and/or good draft picks.

[spurscenter]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/05/fullj.47f5bc016a1379ef680a1cfef756ffa8/47f5bc016a1379ef680a1cfef756ffa8-getty-80976325jp143.jpg

[Killakobe81]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.


I agree with Kori you guys are not that far away ..I still fear you guys more than ANYONE else ...

Draft an athletic 3/4.

[loveforthegame]

Not to mention they still have Bird Rights to Horry and Finley. Howabout finding a team wanting to clear cap space, and either of those two can be cap filler/retirement moves for teams in exchange for taking back a bad contract with a good player and/or good draft picks.

It's not a bad idea but a lot would depend on Finley and Horry. Won't they have to report to the new team like the league made KVH do?

[bigdog]

Horry will retire, Finley should retire, and if we can't find anybody else, keep KT.

Bring in Mahinmi, and Splitter will not be here. Even if he hasn't signed the contract with Tau yet, I'm pissed for him even thinking about staying there just for the money. I never liked his game anyways.

DerMarr Johnson should have a very solid shot at making the team next year. The Spurs didn't resign him for nothing. They should give him a chance.

Trade JV(unless he opts out), let Stoudamire go, draft a backup PG, and sign one via free agency (Duhon, Arroyo, West?) Arroyo would probably ask for too much money, and I think West will resign with the Cavs, but who knows. I like Duhon.

Draft a young wing player, and sign one via free agency. (Pietrus, Kareem Rush, Ryan Gomes, James Jones?)

anyways, just some ideas.

[Mr. Body]

Diop sounds like a good idea. A guy who can run, jump, play defense, rebound, block shots.

[timvp]

I wouldn't rebuild. There are a lot of Sky Is Falling posts and Spurs fans worried that the run is over. However, I truly believe that the Spurs were one healthy Manu Ginobili away from championship number five. You need health to win championships. Going into this season, I thought the Spurs would have another great shot if the Big Three remained healthy throughout the playoffs. Didn't happen. Didn't win. Not a huge shock.

I know this isn't going to be a sexy opinion and I'm sure there will be those who will be hugely against my stance but this team has most of the pieces. Only thing this team needs, besides healthy, is one more scorer. And I'm not even talking a prolific scorer. I'm talking eight to ten points per game. Basically, replace the scoring Finley provided in 2007. Add in some youth at the end of the bench and I love the Spurs' chances.

Some Spurs fans want a complete overhaul ... and that just doesn't make sense to me. The window is only open for two to four years. That's not really enough time to rebuild a totally new supporting cast. What you do is you get a couple young pieces and you work those players into the rotation. The transition to the new supporting cast should be seamless ... not a house cleaning project that turns next season into a rebuilding one.

To do list:

1) Find a young, athletic bigman who can play in the rotation. Whether than be Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter or someone else.

2) Find a young, scoring point guard. I want someone in the Rodney Stuckey combo guard mold who just wants to score. The NBA is becoming a slashers league and the easiest position to find bench scoring is at point guard.

3) Find a swingman who can score. Someone who can average ten points per game. Preferably a shooter.

That's it. Bring everyone else back, hope the Big Three is healthy next year and the Spurs will have a great chance.

Finding the three stars to build around is the hard part. That has been accomplished. Subtle changes to the role players to adjust to more athleticism oriented Western Conference is all that's needed.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Damon Stoudamire was a bad omen for us.

[MaNu4Tres]

Diop/ Gomes/ Mahimni /James Jones or JR Smith coming in.....Horry Finley Stoudamire Bonner going out

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Diop sounds like a good idea. A guy who can run, jump, play defense, rebound, block shots.

Maybe, but I'd like a big who'd be a big enough offensive threat to help Timmy out for once. Timmy's been solo for so longgggg...

[Mr. Body]

Uh... you have to rebuild this bench, dude. No one's calling for trading a big three player. Everyone's saying exactly what your list says. I know you run the board - and great job - but you haven't cast any new light on the situation.

[ducks]

you almost can only do this
because I think trading manu or tp is not what is needed

who would they get
melo? please (no d)


do you resign thomas?
do you resign horry for vet min
and have him be player coach

finley is DONE

[Kori Ellis]

Uh... you have to rebuild this bench, dude. No one's calling for trading a big three player. Everyone's saying exactly what your list says. I know you run the board - and great job - but you haven't cast any new light on the situation.

There's been six threads to trade one of the big three since the game ended.

[timvp]

Uh... you have to rebuild this bench, dude. No one's calling for trading a big three player. Everyone's saying exactly what your list says. I know you run the board - and great job - but you haven't cast any new light on the situation.Bench doesn't need rebuilding. I want almost everyone back. Just a few additions and moving a couple people up the depth charts.

[ducks]

if spurs can not get a backup point
let barry play it more not manu doing regular season so he can be even better at it during playoffs

[T Park]

I wouldn't rebuild. There are a lot of Sky Is Falling posts and Spurs fans worried that the run is over. However, I truly believe that the Spurs were one healthy Manu Ginobili away from championship number five. You need health to win championships. Going into this season, I thought the Spurs would have another great shot if the Big Three remained healthy throughout the playoffs. Didn't happen. Didn't win. Not a huge shock.

I know this isn't going to be a sexy opinion and I'm sure there will be those who will be hugely against my stance but this team has most of the pieces. Only thing this team needs, besides healthy, is one more scorer. And I'm not even talking a prolific scorer. I'm talking eight to ten points per game. Basically, replace the scoring Finley provided in 2007. Add in some youth at the end of the bench and I love the Spurs' chances.

Some Spurs fans want a complete overhaul ... and that just doesn't make sense to me. The window is only open for two to four years. That's not really enough time to rebuild a totally new supporting cast. What you do is you get a couple young pieces and you work those players into the rotation. The transition to the new supporting cast should be seamless ... not a house cleaning project that turns next season into a rebuilding one.

To do list:

1) Find a young, athletic bigman who can play in the rotation. Whether than be Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter or someone else.

2) Find a young, scoring point guard. I want someone in the Rodney Stuckey combo guard mold who just wants to score. The NBA is becoming a slashers league and the easiest position to find bench scoring is at point guard.

3) Find a swingman who can score. Someone who can average ten points per game. Preferably a shooter.

That's it. Bring everyone else back, hope the Big Three is healthy next year and the Spurs will have a great chance.

Finding the three stars to build around is the hard part. That has been accomplished. Subtle changes to the role players to adjust to more athleticism oriented Western Conference is all that's needed.

Combo guard, wold be Azubuike.

Props to Aggie for being one of the first to bring that up.


Yeah I said this in other threads, this team is NOT as far off as people think.

You add in Mahinmi, Splitter, a wing or two, and this team is back at the top.

I think Barry can replace Finley's production easily, he showed hes got a DAMN load left in the tank. Problem is hoping he stays healthy.

[Lake_show]

Trade Ginobli

[Don Quixote]

Nobody except Tim is untouchable. Maybe Tony, but that's about it.

We have seen the future -- L.A.'s roster -- and they beat us like a drum. We need several young, athletic, scoring, rebounding types to be able to compete with them.

You can't go into a gunfight with a bunch of steak knives, like we had.

[Mr. Body]

There's been six threads to trade one of the big three since the game ended.

No one takes those seriously, you think? The larger threads - six to seven of them already - about the off-season say exactly what timvp says above, although he claims it's this brand new take on things.

Where do we get a combo guard? Where do we get our big man? How do we replace Finley's 2007 scoring?

[timvp]

Put it this way, I'm not against bringing back Michael Finley and Robert Horry ... depending on how the offseason shakes out.

[Don Quixote]

Trade Ginobli

Would the Lakers take him?

I'd swap him even-up for Vujacic. Sasha didn't shoot particularly well in the series, but he's a good defender and not a turnover machine. And he's not hurt all the time. And he can generally make his shots. I'd take him or Ariza for Manu.

[Mr. Body]

Bench doesn't need rebuilding. I want almost everyone back. Just a few additions and moving a couple people up the depth charts.

Ouch. To be honest, I think that'd be a disaster. Probably what will happen, probably also a disaster. At this point the bench is like running without cartilege in your knee. Bone on bone.

[E20]

What are your thoughts on Manu playing for Argentina or will he? Is Finley retiring? I know Horry is not, but will he be on the Spurs? What's Barry's contract length?

Players we let go: (?)
Horry
Finley
Vaughn
Damon

Players we add:
Ian
?
?
?

Someone needs to find a FA list.

[Mr. Body]

Maybe, but I'd like a big who'd be a big enough offensive threat to help Timmy out for once. Timmy's been solo for so longgggg...

Five letters, begins with S, ends in a. We already had that guy.

[Kori Ellis]

Put it this way, I'm not against bringing back players like Michael Finley and Robert Horry.

I don't want them back. But unfortunately I think Pop will bring them back if they want to be here.

[Kori Ellis]

Someone needs to find a FA list.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=2008freeagents

[T Park]

Horry I'd bring back.

Finley should be given the handshake and the adios.

[Don Quixote]

Put it this way, I'm not against bringing back Michael Finley and Robert Horry ... depending on how the offseason shakes out.

You're crazy. They need to be retired. The bench in general needs some serious upgrades.

[pooh]

Manu will never be 100%, his body has taken too much of a pounding.

[blaze89]

Thomas should return, as well as Barry. Finley and Horry should bow out. Although I feel both contributed very well their time with the Spurs. Youth and athleticism should be in the mix for next year, not an overhaul but an added touch.

[m33p0]

a double-digit rebounder and shot blocker who at least has a hook shot.

[zepn]

The Spurs need someone/some way to keep other teams from packing in the lane. It keeps Duncan, Ginobili and Parker all from scoring, leading to long droughts. And they can't seem to hit jumpers...

[ChumpDumper]

Put it this way, I'm not against bringing back Michael Finley and Robert Horry ... depending on how the offseason shakes out.I can't see keeping ALL the old farts, but half of them? Yeah.

[tmtcsc]

You don't trade any of the big 3.

Here's who we keep:

Tim
Manu
Tony
Bowen
Barry
Thomas
Udoka
Oberto
Mahinmi

Lose: Finley, Horry, Bonner, Vaughn, Stoudamire, Bonner (?) - Trade ?

FA Possibilities - Jamison, Matt Barnes, Pietrus, Artest

[lefty]

We need hungry younger guys; just additions though, no major overhaul.

Look at the young Celtics scrubs.

Or look at what Joe Dumars did with Rodney Stuckey, Jason Maxiell...

[jag]

Horry, Finley, Bonner, and Vaughn need to see the door.

[T Park]

Some interesting names there.

I wouldn't be opposed to Jannero Pargo being on this team.

[Marcus Bryant]

I generally agree. I think you draft for guys you think can be ready to contribute sooner rather than later. That means domestic talent or an international talent definitely on their way into the league. Spurs need to start mining for gems in the states now that everyone and their dog has copied their overseas draft and stash routine.

Also, the Spurs need to add some perimeter length to this team, if they can find it.

There are some interesting names in free agency and the Spurs may be able to add a significant piece with their MLE. The lux tax won't be an issue.

A healthy Manu and a slightly more favorable playoff schedule and the Spurs could definitely be back in the Finals.

[ElNono]

I think that was obvious this series is that you can't have 2 offensive liabilities on the floor at the same time. It's either Bowen or Oberto, but it can't be both. If we can't resign Thomas, we should be looking for somebody a little more atlethic that can rebound and score at least 10-12 a game to keep defenses honest.
Other than that, I agree with your post. We're number 2 in a loaded Western Conference. That's not too shabby!

[lefty]

Some interesting names there.

I wouldn't be opposed to Jannero Pargo being on this team.

Yes !

He'll have 1 great game out of 94

[Lake_show]

Would the Lakers take him?

I'd swap him even-up for Vujacic. Sasha didn't shoot particularly well in the series, but he's a good defender and not a turnover machine. And he's not hurt all the time. And he can generally make his shots. I'd take him or Ariza for Manu.

If I were the Spurs I'd take offers for him.

[Mr. Body]

Appealing FAs would be Diop, Chris Duhon, Pargo, James Jones. Of the ones in any way available. Not a whole lot else.

[cly2tw]

If I were you, I'd give KT a new contract and try to sign another scorer with the MLE. Make a tender to JR Smith and whoever else is available before TD getting too old in two years.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Can we just end up with one official rebuilding discussion thread? Eh, here's my copy and paste from the other one...

* bring up Ian (given)
* bring over Sanikidze to see what he's got once and for all (and he's a long three)
* Kelenna Azuibuike. Get him somehow, someway.

On top of those, we still need a true Bowen apprentice, I'm not sure who that is without perusing the FA listings but there's got to be a young journeyman out there somewhere willing to come be Bowen Jr.

To add to this, other candidates would be

* Diop (would give us a defender/rebounder next to Tim).
* Pietrus/Barnes - one of these guys would be a good three behind Bruce
* Bonzi Wells (if you want a bench scorer)
* Hermann (I'm iffy on what his status is, but that could be an Argentinian NT bench :lol )
* Roger Mason, Jr. Bench chucker.

Spurs need to get rid of: Finley, Horry, Bonner, Stoudemire.

And put the full court press on Tiago. I'm talking Tim, Manu, Tony, and Pop at his door tomorrow.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Put it this way, I'm not against bringing back Michael Finley and Robert Horry ... depending on how the offseason shakes out.

To fill out the end of the bench and be practice dummies? Sure. Rotation players? Hell no.

[tmtcsc]

I think Denver would match JR Smith's money.

[kevm2]

So a bench that saw very limited playing time this series doesn't need a rebuilding? It's more than just the bench. Some of our starters, like Scola, need replacing.

Stoudemire didn't do anything (sat on the bench). Vaughn didn't do anything (sat on the bench). Scola (a starter) didn't do anything. If we don't clean this out, we're going to always be "almost there..." or a "healthy Duncan, Parker or Ginobili" away. The bench was absolutely pathetic this year. Finley showed up a few games, but he's too old. Horry, too old. Bonner, didn't do anything (sat on the bench). Kurt Thomas is ok at times, awful at others.

We can't have another year where we do nothing in the offseason, while other teams get better. We were 'almost there' against the Lakers when our whole team was basically healthy, and yet the Lakers were without Bynum. What do we do when they get Bynum back? We took NO to a game 7. What do we do when they upgrade with more youth and athleticism, and yet we have more dinosaurs roaming the floor?

[K-State Spur]

Let Finley/Horry go.

See if you can move Bonner - if for nothing other than the capspace.

Add Mahinmi to rotation. Draft Courtney Lee. Add a slashing wing or a post via FA, draft a project for the other.

Anything else is gravy.

[T Park]

Yeah if you get Mahinmi and Splitter I don't see much need for Diop. If Tiago stiffs the Spurs, then you go out for a Diop. Barnes would be good, Pietrus? Eh pretty low BBall IQ.

Point guard wise, guys like Duhon, Pargo, guys like that would be damn good backups.

[debo]

BRING IN MUTUMBO!:downspin:

[rasho8]

I can see that stuff happening.

A bruce Jr? I just don't know if that guy is out there.

Back up point is out there, doubt the Spurs can get it.


The team is NOT as far off as some think.

Tweaks, not overhauls are needed.

What about Telfair? Or are there any other PGs going into FA this year that have caught anyones eye?

[T Park]

So a bench that saw very limited playing time this series doesn't need a rebuilding? It's more than just the bench. Some of our starters, like Scola, need replacing.

Stoudemire didn't do anything (sat on the bench). Vaughn didn't do anything (sat on the bench). Scola (a starter) didn't do anything. If we don't clean this out, we're going to always be "almost there..." or a "healthy Duncan, Parker or Ginobili" away. The bench was absolutely pathetic this year. Finley showed up a few games, but he's too old. Horry, too old. Bonner, didn't do anything (sat on the bench). Kurt Thomas is ok at times, awful at others.

We can't have another year where we do nothing in the offseason, while other teams get better. We were 'almost there' against the Lakers when our whole team was basically healthy, and yet the Lakers were without Bynum. What do we do when they get Bynum back? We took NO to a game 7. What do we do when they upgrade with more youth and athleticism, and yet we have more dinosaurs roaming the floor?

Ya know I hate to rain on the parade for the Lakers next season but.

Bynum has had trouble with his knee alot for a guy his age.

Where is the gaurantee that HE stays healthy next year?

[kevm2]

We really need a guy with the fire to score... Sort of like a Stephen Jackson. We have too many guys who refuse to shoot the wide open shot, and pass the ball instead. Barry hit a nice three. Instead of shooting the next open three he got, he passed the ball. We need a young guy who WANTS to score... no more of this passive garbage.

[Don Quixote]

Heck yeah. Manu's not going to get better. He's peaked. He wouldn't even get off the bench as a Laker.

There's only one Spur who could start for the Lakers, and he wears #21. The other 4 Spur starters would come off the bench. And Oberto and Finley wouldn't even make the roster. As for our bench, none of them would see much time.

[Bruno]

2) Find a young, scoring point guard. I want someone in the Rodney Stuckey combo guard mold who just wants to score. The NBA is becoming a slashers league and the easiest position to find bench scoring is at point guard.


Then Spurs should give a look at Antonio Graves.
He perfectly fits your description. He played this year in France and had a great season.
I hope Spurs will get him for their summer league.

[timvp]

Appealing FAs would be DiopNo. The Spurs can't afford to downgrade their bigman scoring.


, Chris Duhon,Drunk. Pass.


Pargo,Most likely too expensive.


James Jones. Too much of a "low flame" player. If the Spurs go young, the young player should have energy. Not be an emotionless player.

[rasho8]

James White!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JAMES WHITE!!!!!!!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah if you get Mahinmi and Splitter I don't see much need for Diop. If Tiago stiffs the Spurs, then you go out for a Diop. Barnes would be good, Pietrus? Eh pretty low BBall IQ.

Point guard wise, guys like Duhon, Pargo, guys like that would be damn good backups.

Duhon's a scrub, he has worse work ethic than Beno.

Pargo would be welcome, but again I think the Spurs need to part with anyone not named Tim, Manu, Tony, Ian, Bruce, or Tiago to get Kelenna here. He'd start day 1 at shooting guard and could give you 15-20 a night. Plus, he hustles and gets rebounds, plays defense, etc. He's tailor made to be a Spur.

[ATXSPUR]

Get more players who can create their own shots. Get players that don't turn the damn ball over. And Pop needs to stop being so damn stubborn...I feel like I was watching Vince Youngless UT football this entire series. do these things and we are back.

[T Park]

I think me and TIMVP have been campaigning for Pargo since 2004 to be the backup, what the hell, why not keep the tradition alive :lol

[rasho8]

Heck yeah. Manu's not going to get better. He's peaked. He wouldn't even get off the bench as a Laker.

There's only one Spur who could start for the Lakers, and he wears #21. The other 4 Spur starters would come off the bench. And Oberto and Finley wouldn't even make the roster. As for our bench, none of them would see much time.

Hater. Manu isnt going anywhere. As Manu goes so our team goes for the most part.

Tim didnt take less money so the Spurs would trade Ginobili.

God idiots I swear.

[Lake_show]

Heck yeah. Manu's not going to get better. He's peaked. He wouldn't even get off the bench as a Laker.

There's only one Spur who could start for the Lakers, and he wears #21. The other 4 Spur starters would come off the bench. And Oberto and Finley wouldn't even make the roster. As for our bench, none of them would see much time.

I'd trade Manu straight up or with some pieces for Michael Redd.

[Septic]

Would the Lakers take him?

I'd swap him even-up for Vujacic. Sasha didn't shoot particularly well in the series, but he's a good defender and not a turnover machine. And he's not hurt all the time. And he can generally make his shots. I'd take him or Ariza for Manu.

Is there something wrong with the way your brain functions?

[Marcus Bryant]

This is a bit simplistic, but the Spurs need more guys who can score and take some of the regular season burden off the big 3.

Also, Pop needs to be willing to give some of the younger talent some PT during the season. These guys aren't going to develop by sitting in suits behind the bench. I'm thinking of Ian in particular.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Five letters, begins with S, ends in a. We already had that guy.

I know, but ....if you mention his three times, he'll appear in the mirror.

No knives or anything, but his image alone is punishment enough.

Dont' even get anyone started that he could have helped us out this post-season, in our offensive droughts and probably would have played better with our triple threat big three taking the heat off of him.

[E20]

I'd be all for trying to bring in Matt Barnes or Pietrus.

[T Park]

Duhon's a scrub, he has worse work ethic than Beno.

Pargo would be welcome, but again I think the Spurs need to part with anyone not named Tim, Manu, Tony, Ian, Bruce, or Tiago to get Kelenna here. He'd start day 1 at shooting guard and could give you 15-20 a night. Plus, he hustles and gets rebounds, plays defense, etc. He's tailor made to be a Spur.

Yeah I agree, I love Kelenna's game, I just don't know if anyone on the roster gets him here.

Maybe Nelson goes for Bonner, he likes a 3 point shooting power forward to play at center.

Who knows. I agree though, Tiago should be priority number 1, then have a good draft, then go after Azubukie and Pargo.

[K-State Spur]

Five letters, begins with S, ends in a. We already had that guy.

somebody should discuss that in depth...

[ChumpDumper]

Heck yeah. Manu's not going to get better. He's peaked. He wouldn't even get off the bench as a Laker.He's be great because he wouldn't be overused.


There's only one Spur who could start for the Lakers, and he wears #21. The other 4 Spur starters would come off the bench. And Oberto and Finley wouldn't even make the roster. As for our bench, none of them would see much time.ROFL @ Fisher's starting over Parker.

[mVp]

We don't need another scoring point guard, Tony's a scoring PG, we need a true point guard, not a shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body. We need someone who can move the ball and create for the team in offense, while scoring would be a nice plus, I'll take a solid true PG to backup Tony.

I agree with all the rest, though. We don't need a mayor rebuilding, one more scorer and a nice backup for Tony and that's it.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Heck yeah. Manu's not going to get better. He's peaked. He wouldn't even get off the bench as a Laker.



I'd dare the Spurs to trade Ginobili. He'd make the Spurs pay through their noses.

[T Park]

This is a bit simplistic, but the Spurs need more guys who can score and take some of the regular season burden off the big 3.

Also, Pop needs to be willing to give some of the younger talent some PT during the season. These guys aren't going to develop by sitting in suits behind the bench. I'm thinking of Ian in particular.

I think you can pretty much pencil in 28 being one of the main, if not the main, big next to Duncan. If Splitter comes, he will start next to Duncan, book that shiznit.

[T Park]

We don't need another scoring point guard, Tony's a scoring PG, we need a true point guard, not a shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body. We need someone who can move the ball and create for the team in offense, while scoring would be a nice plus, I'll take a solid true PG to backup Tony.

I agree with all the rest, though. We don't need a mayor rebuilding, one more scorer and a nice backup for Tony and that's it.

No you need a combo guard, thats like TIMVP said, what the NBA is moving twords, and a guy like Pargo, Stuckey, players along that line they need desperately.

[K-State Spur]

I'd trade Manu straight up or with some pieces for Michael Redd.

Michael Redd is a hell of a shooter, but very overrated. He gives up around 30 a night on the other end of the floor no matter how they try to cover him up.

Guy makes Nash look like Bruce Bowen.

[Don Quixote]

Maybe so. But Tim would understand if we traded Manu to make the team better. He got over us trading Malik!

I'm actually proud of how the Silver & Black fared in the playoffs, trotting out a bunch of washed-up players and never-stars. And they played hard. But let's not over-rate our team. Tim's the only unquestioned star on this team. The rest are expendable.

[baseline bum]

Fuck... we had this shit setup so perfectly... and then we didn't offer Stephen Jackson the 5 year deal he wanted.

[Lake_show]

TRADE GINOBLI. He averaged 14 points on 31% shooting in the regular season. Wait until Bynum comes back.

[Don Quixote]

I'd give Milwaukee (Algonquin for the Good land!) Manu and more, for Redd!

[beachwood]

I'd like someone like Raja Bell on the team. Oh, wait, we did have him.

[hsxvvd]

Draft CDR. Chris Douglas-Roberts

Scoring 2/3, can shoot the lights out, is ready to contribute straight away, and has length to become a solid defender within a good team defence.

We might need to trade up, but make it happen.

[Don Quixote]

Is there something wrong with the way your brain functions?

No, I just saw what we all saw -- an old, slow, less-skilled team getting owned by a young, fast, very-skilled squad. Manu's a big fish in this little pond, but put him on the Lakers and he plays 5 min. a night.

[timvp]

This is a bit simplistic, but the Spurs need more guys who can score and take some of the regular season burden off the big 3.Great point. As we saw this year, the Big Three needs to be plenty of rested come playoff time. Getting a scorer who can at least help carry the team in the regular season would be nice.


Also, Pop needs to be willing to give some of the younger talent some PT during the season. These guys aren't going to develop by sitting in suits behind the bench. I'm thinking of Ian in particular.Yes. Whether Mahinmi or perhaps even Splitter emerge as the better prospect, whoever it is needs a lot of time. I'm talking 20+ minutes per game in the regular season. That will keep the other bigs fresh and give the player good experience.

The biggest mistake, even bigger than totally retooling the bench, would be to rely on the Big Three and the old players in the regular season next year. Spurs need new blood to keep the other players fresh.

Manu having to carry the team in February was part of the reason why they're fishing right now.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Fuck... we had this shit setup so perfectly... and then we didn't offer Stephen Jackson the 5 year deal he wanted.

:depressed

[mVp]

No you need a combo guard, thats like TIMVP said, what the NBA is moving twords, and a guy like Pargo, Stuckey, players along that line they need desperately.

I love Stuckey... I'll take him in a heartbeat, it would be great to get a player like him.

[Don Quixote]

I'd go for Barbosa (albeit with his defensive liabilities), Raja Bell, Scola, or John Salmons. Did we ever think about drafting those guys?

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd be all for trying to bring in Matt Barnes or Pietrus.

Use the MLE and LLE to land some combo of Barnes, Herrmann, and Pargo.

[cherylsteele]

how about:

Devin Brown
Ron Artest

Do you all think the Bobcats would let Okafor walk? He is unrestricted.

[nil.ball]

Mike Harris+2nd Rounder+Cash for the right to talk to Tiago Splitter!

[E20]

Any prospects for Summer League? I'm assuming Ian will be playing, if possible I hope the NBA allows online streaming of the games, I'd like to see how he's developed while with the Toros.

[T Park]

Use the MLE and LLE to land some combo of Barnes, Herrmann, and Pargo.

Bring that, with Mahinmi, Splitter, and a couple draft picks, and I would consider that a good offseason.

[Kori Ellis]

No, I just saw what we all saw -- an old, slow, less-skilled team getting owned by a young, fast, very-skilled squad. Manu's a big fish in this little pond, but put him on the Lakers and he plays 5 min. a night.

I don't know if you need a break from the forum or what. But your idiocy in the last week is tiring.

Yesterday you tried to convince people that Fisher's 6 and 1 was better than Parker's 19 and 6.

Today, you are trying to say that Manu wouldn't play 5 minutes on the Lakers?

You aren't even a Spurs fan. You are just fucking delusional.

[timvp]

*threads merged*

I haven't even looked at the free agent list yet. Sucks to have to break it out in May.

:depressed

[E20]

Use the MLE and LLE to land some combo of Barnes, Herrmann, and Pargo.
How old is Pargo, I remember he was on the 2003 Laker squad that the Spurs dispatched.

Atlanta is a hot spot for 6'8 SF's. I know some are FA's this year and I wonder if the Spurs can pry one out.

[T Park]

*threads merged*

I haven't even looked at the free agent list yet. Sucks to have to break it out in May.

:depressed

Eh, were a couple days from June.

Hell, before the playoffs started, we would've been happy to make the WCFs :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

If Azubuike opts out, maybe take a shot at him with a strong MLE offer. GS has Monta Ellis as a free agent this summer to take care of and they have a fair amount of $ tied up in their perimeter players.

[K-State Spur]

At our draft slot (unless we move up) - there are a few guys who may have lower ceilings than some of the other names, but could be immediate contributors (or at least by the playoffs next year).

At least one of Courtney Lee, Brandon Rush, or Chris Douglas-Roberts would figure to be available at our slot.

Lee is probably the most polished offensive player, Rush is a standout defender when he wants to be (but Pop could likely get that out of him more often), and CDR is very intriguing as a legit 6'6 slasher who has the length to be an effective defender if properly coached.

[Marcus Bryant]

How old is Pargo, I remember he was on the 2003 Laker squad that the Spurs dispatched.

Atlanta is a hot spot for 6'8 SF's. I know some are FA's this year and I wonder if the Spurs can pry one out.

Childress is a RFA, but I doubt Atlanta lets him go, especially for a MLE offer.

[johngateswhiteley]

I wouldn't rebuild. There are a lot of Sky Is Falling posts and Spurs fans worried that the run is over. However, I truly believe that the Spurs were one healthy Manu Ginobili away from championship number five. You need health to win championships. Going into this season, I thought the Spurs would have another great shot if the Big Three remained healthy throughout the playoffs. Didn't happen. Didn't win. Not a huge shock.

I know this isn't going to be a sexy opinion and I'm sure there will be those who will be hugely against my stance but this team has most of the pieces. Only thing this team needs, besides healthy, is one more scorer. And I'm not even talking a prolific scorer. I'm talking eight to ten points per game. Basically, replace the scoring Finley provided in 2007. Add in some youth at the end of the bench and I love the Spurs' chances.

Some Spurs fans want a complete overhaul ... and that just doesn't make sense to me. The window is only open for two to four years. That's not really enough time to rebuild a totally new supporting cast. What you do is you get a couple young pieces and you work those players into the rotation. The transition to the new supporting cast should be seamless ... not a house cleaning project that turns next season into a rebuilding one.

To do list:

1) Find a young, athletic bigman who can play in the rotation. Whether than be Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter or someone else.

2) Find a young, scoring point guard. I want someone in the Rodney Stuckey combo guard mold who just wants to score. The NBA is becoming a slashers league and the easiest position to find bench scoring is at point guard.

3) Find a swingman who can score. Someone who can average ten points per game. Preferably a shooter.

That's it. Bring everyone else back, hope the Big Three is healthy next year and the Spurs will have a great chance.

Finding the three stars to build around is the hard part. That has been accomplished. Subtle changes to the role players to adjust to more athleticism oriented Western Conference is all that's needed.

sensible post...unlike so many others. the Spurs weren't that far away from making this a long series or even winning it. and its quite clear why, they ran out of gas b/c TD, Manu and Parker were tired and need a bit of help. i'm not completely sold there needs to be this crazy youth movement with the bench...sometimes you make shots and sometimes you don't. adding quality youth is never a bad idea but there isn't a magic button...its not easy.

furthermore, all this bashing of pop and r.c....seriously? they have done a phenomenal job with the Spurs...nobody bats 1.000. consider the spurs fortunate to even have 4 titles in 9 years. all this crap about the spurs could/should have won more titles...fisher's shot, TD's injury, etc. what about Horry's shot that didn't drop (2003) and Horry's insane play in the 2005 finals against detroit?

...how about some fucking perspective you ungrateful fucks. fuck off.

p.s. there is no chance TD retires without winning at least 1 more ring, imo.

[Marcus Bryant]

At our draft slot (unless we move up) - there are a few guys who may have lower ceilings than some of the other names, but could be immediate contributors (or at least by the playoffs next year).

At least one of Courtney Lee, Brandon Rush, or Chris Douglas-Roberts would figure to be available at our slot.

Lee is probably the most polished offensive player, Rush is a standout defender when he wants to be (but Pop could likely get that out of him more often), and CDR is very intriguing as a legit 6'6 slasher who has the length to be an effective defender if properly coached.

There's enough talent in the draft these days that the Spurs could find themselves a contributor with pick #26.

[SequSpur]

Only blind homer spurs fans can't see that Ginobili actually showed up to 20 games this year. I would start with him. Bowen is old. Dude is 37+..COME ON!!! I don't need to see him play another game...

The Spurs lost because LA is better and younger. Ginobili couldn't have done shit. they shut his ass down.

The Spurs need to change. Alot.

Wake up.

[T Park]

I didn't watch enough college ball to know if Courtney Lee, Brandon Rush, or CDR is the best. Or if they help :lol

The Spurs are so bad at drafting domestically I don't know what to think.

[baseline bum]

Manu having to carry the team in February was part of the reason why they're fishing right now.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was just getting ready to type that we prob lost the title when Tony went down early in the year. :bang

[Streakyshooter08]

To me, the most important thing is a 4th scoring option. With Manu playing this summer they will have to rest him even more in the regular season. It sould be somebody who is able to get to the rim and can create his own shot. The main problem I see is that they have to do it via trade/draft. They have no money and there are no really interesting unrestricted free agents.

My choice would be J.R. Smith. He can get to the rim and shoot the three. The problem is that the Spurs can't offer any money to him.

Here are some names I would like (I leave out the obvious ones like Brand, Arenas, Iverson if they opt out, which I doubt):

Childress (restricted)- very unlikely
Azubuike- (restricted)- haven't figured out a way to get him maybe MLE would be enough)
Pietrus (unresticted)- only if you run out of options
Corey Maggette- pipe dream
Artest- pipe dream but he said he would take less to play for a championship
Ricky Davis- might be a cancer but at least can score
Ramunas Siskauskas- was linked with the Spurs in rumors

I would also try to bring back Thomas for the minumum.
Fin/Horry/ Damon should be gone.

The you have:

Oberto/Thomas
Duncan/ Bonner/ Mahinmi
Bowen/ Udoka
a scoring guard/ Manu/ Barry
Parker/ Vaughn

I am not too high on Mahinmi. I really doubt he comes in and produces right away. Getting Splitter would be really good. I don't know what is going on with Spanoulis maybe he could come over as well, who knows. I don't expect any help via draft unless the Spurs move up.

[Marcus Bryant]

Vagisil Spanilllououous is not Spurs property.

[Kori Ellis]

A capology question - For the players that are ETO (not regular player options), when do they have to say whether they are opting out?

[T Park]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was just getting ready to type that we prob lost the title when Tony went down early in the year. :bang

Parker goes down, Spurs lose close games to Memphis and Seattle, two games that would've given them home court against New Orleans and LA...


Domino effect like a muthafucka...

[Don Quixote]

I don't know if you need a break from the forum or what. But your idiocy in the last week is tiring.

Yesterday you tried to convince people that Fisher's 6 and 1 was better than Parker's 19 and 6.

Today, you are trying to say that Manu wouldn't play 5 minutes on the Lakers?



Yeah, I probably do need a break. I'm seasonal anyway. I'll be back in February with my sanity intact.

As far a Fisher over Parker goes, Fisher is steadier, less turnover-prone, and a much better shooter. His numbers are low because he doesn't touch the ball much in L.A.'s system. But put him in Parker's role and I bet you he gets us 15 and 7 a night.

And I stand by what I said about Manu. He's a great man, and used to be a great player. Maybe he will be again. But right now, he's not even as good as the Lakers' 10th man, whoever he is. Walton?

[SequSpur]

Bonner, Vaughn and Mahinmi? :lmao

lottery bound.

[T Park]

Yeah, I probably do need a break. I'm seasonal anyway. I'll be back in February with my sanity intact.

As far a Fisher over Parker goes, Fisher is steadier, less turnover-prone, and a much better shooter. His numbers are low because he doesn't touch the ball much in L.A.'s system. But put him in Parker's role and I bet you he gets us 15 and 7 a night.

And I stand by what I said about Manu. He's a great man, and used to be a great player. Maybe he will be again. But right now, he's not even as good as the Lakers' 10th man, whoever he is. Walton?

God, shoot yourself or drink draino, you'r a complete tool.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah, I probably do need a break. I'm seasonal anyway. I'll be back in February with my sanity intact.


Cool. Good luck.

[dbreiden83080]

I don't know if you need a break from the forum or what. But your idiocy in the last week is tiring.

Yesterday you tried to convince people that Fisher's 6 and 1 was better than Parker's 19 and 6.

Today, you are trying to say that Manu wouldn't play 5 minutes on the Lakers?

You aren't even a Spurs fan. You are just fucking delusional.

LOL, Kori owning the dumb posts around here good for you. :toast

[dbreiden83080]

God, shoot yourself or drink draino, you'r a complete tool.

:lmao

[Don Quixote]

Only blind homer spurs fans can't see that Ginobili actually showed up to 20 games this year. I would start with him. Bowen is old. Dude is 37+..COME ON!!! I don't need to see him play another game...

The Spurs lost because LA is better and younger. Ginobili couldn't have done jack. they shut him down.

The Spurs need to change. Alot.

Wake up.

I basically agree, although Manu had a better season than that. He showed up for 50-60 games this year. And Bowen is useful. But they couldn't have broken that L.A. defense if healthy.

We need guys like Ben Gordon, Walter Herrmann, Nocioni, etc., and alot less Horry, Finley, Barry, Stoud., Bonner, and Oberto taking up space on the roster. Bring in young studs, and leave the old guys out to pasture.

[Lake_show]

Michael Redd is a hell of a shooter, but very overrated. He gives up around 30 a night on the other end of the floor no matter how they try to cover him up.

Thats exaggerating and Manu isn't a good defender.

He has the luxury of playing with one of the best players in the game (a big man at that) as well as a top tier PG who take a lot of pressure of him. If he had his own team he would realize what it's like to try to carry a team on his shoulders. He would have to face constant double teams as well as teams planning their defense to stop him, which isn't the case right now.

They say Ginobli has so much energy but he plays ten fewer minutes than shooting guards who really have to carry their teams. Stick Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Tracy Mcgrady, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Dwayne Wade on that team and I bet they look like they have 5x the energy.

[SequSpur]

Thats exaggerating and Manu isn't a good defender.

He has the luxury of playing with one of the best players in the game (a big man at that) as well as a top tier PG who take a lot of pressure of him. If he had his own team he would realize what it's like to try to carry a team on his shoulders. He would have to face constant double teams as well as teams planning their defense to stop him, which isn't the case right now.

They say Ginobli has so much energy but he plays ten fewer minutes than shooting guards who really have to carry their teams. Stick Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Tracy Mcgrady, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Dwayne Wade on that team and I bet they look like they have 5x the energy.

Manu is horrible. He proved it this series. Stop buying the Go for three bs and wake up.

[ChumpDumper]

A capology question - For the players that are ETO (not regular player options), when do they have to say whether they are opting out?
Pretty sure it's June 30 for options and ETOs.

[midgetonadonkey]

*threads merged*

I haven't even looked at the free agent list yet. Sucks to have to break it out in May.

:depressed

zfBxF6y77zU

[midgetonadonkey]

I love you bff!!

[E20]

Thats exaggerating and Manu isn't a good defender.

He has the luxury of playing with one of the best players in the game (a big man at that) as well as a top tier PG who take a lot of pressure of him. If he had his own team he would realize what it's like to try to carry a team on his shoulders. He would have to face constant double teams as well as teams planning their defense to stop him, which isn't the case right now.

They say Ginobli has so much energy but he plays ten fewer minutes than shooting guards who really have to carry their teams. Stick Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Tracy Mcgrady, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Dwayne Wade on that team and I bet they look like they have 5x the energy.

Manu single handedly carried his National team to a gold medal against Team USA................You obviously haven't followed Manu at all. The reason he plays 10 fewer minutes, because he comes off the bench and if he did play 10 more minutes a night, his body will break down on him.

[E20]

Yeah, but I hope Manu takes it easy for a while and takes it light in the Olympics, which he probably won't. Also, please shave and grow your hair out again. K' thanks.

[SequSpur]

Manu single handedly carried his National team to a gold medal against Team USA................You obviously haven't followed Manu at all.

yeah, he did, but that is old news.

[E20]

yeah, he did, but that is old news.
So are your posts, but does anybody mention that? No. We just laugh.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ginoboli, i dont care about the pass, im more concern about the future where this team is heading....

trade now....

[Nbadan]

Why is Bonner still on this team? and at $3 million for the next two seasons.....it's a waste....

[Harry Callahan]

I'm fvcking p1ssed off.

Why is it that every time the Spurs win a title, the front office doesn't look at the reasons why and just assumes that if they roll virtually the same team out there, the results will be the same.


Beyond frustrating.

The Spurs had essentially the same roster (outside of Thomas). That was the first time the roster came back intact at the beginning of last season. The other seasons, some significant changes occurred with FAs and retirements.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is Bonner still on this team? and at $3 million for the next two seasons.....it's a waste....Because the Spurs don't read your posts.

[midgetonadonkey]

Why is Bonner still on this team? and at $3 million for the next two seasons.....it's a waste....

Just wait until we trade him for a stud.

Ronaldo Balkman her we come!!!

[Mr. Peabody]

Why is Bonner still on this team? and at $3 million for the next two seasons.....it's a waste....

I thought he would be an asset this series. I figured that maybe he could match up against Odom or Gasol.

[E20]

Bonner can be a bruiser and hit it from the 3, but he just can't do it when it comes to play. I'd like him to work real hard in the offseason, hell, maybe even play in some summer league games and see what he can do in the begining of the season.

[T Park]

Alot of this talk is moot honestly, until the situation with Splitter is better defined. The draft is over, and who opts out of their contracts.

[MannyIsGod]

Put it this way, I'm not against bringing back Michael Finley and Robert Horry ... depending on how the offseason shakes out.

Wut

No

Finley MAYBE to be last guard off the bench. Horry? Fuck no.

[Nbadan]

So paying bonner the same as Oberto to sit his ass on the bench in the playoffs is a good investment?

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck this thread blew up fast - that was from like page one :lol

[ChumpDumper]

So paying bonner the same as Oberto to sit his ass on the bench in the playoffs is a good investment?It's less than the MLE so it's not worth whining about.

[Lake_show]

Manu gets credit for riding on the coattails of Duncan. People always renounced Wade's numbers alongside Shaq, but they seem to argue that Manu helps an aging Duncan, not the other way around. This is hypocrisy. Clearly, on one hand we have a superstar and on the other we have a roleplayer. If other guards played ten fewer minutes per contest, it would look like they had an infinitely larger amount of energy than other players at the same position.

[MannyIsGod]

Pop needs to play Bonner or trade him. Bruno was right that not playing him at all this season came back to bite the Spurs in the ass. They really could have used his shooting and hustle at times.

[Don Quixote]

I'm tired of this crap.

I don't care about next year yet. I'm still torked about this year. Getting owned by the Lakers is as bad as it gets.

Until next season, guys ... :toast

[Nbadan]

It's less than the MLE so it's not worth whining about.

It worth whining about when Josh Smith only made $2,243,543 this season in Atlanta.....

[T Park]

It worth whining about when Josh Smith only made $2,243,543 this season in Atlanta.....

So when he resigns for over 6 or 7 will you then STFU?

[ChumpDumper]

It worth whining about when Josh Smith only made $2,243,543 this season in Atlanta.....:lmao

That statement is all kinds of stupid.

[T Park]

It worth whining about when Josh Smith only made $2,243,543 this season in Atlanta.....

You also know hes on a ROOKIE contract correct stupid?

[Marcus Bryant]

Great point. As we saw this year, the Big Three needs to be plenty of rested come playoff time. Getting a scorer who can at least help carry the team in the regular season would be nice.

And of course having a guy who can put up points couldn't hurt in the postseason.




Yes. Whether Mahinmi or perhaps even Splitter emerge as the better prospect, whoever it is needs a lot of time. I'm talking 20+ minutes per game in the regular season. That will keep the other bigs fresh and give the player good experience.

The biggest mistake, even bigger than totally retooling the bench, would be to rely on the Big Three and the old players in the regular season next year. Spurs need new blood to keep the other players fresh.

Manu having to carry the team in February was part of the reason why they're fishing right now.

Indeed. The thing is, Pop has to be willing to do that in the regular season instead of going with vets off the bench.

Spurs fans say they want the team to be younger, but it really means they want to improve team speed and aggressiveness. Yes, that tends to correlate with youth. Players like Barnes, Pargo, and Herrmann would fit that mold.

[T Park]

Herrmann is a really intriguing prospect.

He could be had for cheap, his stock isn't that high.

[tlongII]

You should try to sucker some team into giving up a decent draft pick or young player for Bowen. That's your only chance of getting athletic enough to contend quickly imo.

[ChumpDumper]

But you're an idiot.

[DespЏrado]

I keep Horry if he wants to come back just for an end of the bench run.
Udoka back the guy showed up for the Hornet's series and was just a bad matchup with Kobe.
Thomas back. Thomas can be a great Kevin Willis like player if the spurs need a banger next year.
Barry must return I wouldn't depend on him to be our only backup pg next year but I would play him like it.

Get rid of Finley, Vaughn, Stoudemire.

Tradebait- Oberto, Bonner, and Udoka for the right offer/

The Spurs need Splitter, he makes the rest if the off season much easier.

The Spurs need a 4th scorer. A big 2 who can create his own shot and makes a consistent 12 pts a game he has to be large enough to slide over to the 3 and 4 positions to close out the game. He needs to start and play well enough to keep Manu on the bench.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You should try to sucker some team into giving up a decent draft pick or young player for Bowen. That's your only chance of getting athletic enough to contend quickly imo.

Not much of a marker for 36 year olds that can't dribble. Or pass. Or shoot free throws. And who is invaluable to his current team.

[Nbadan]

:lmao

That statement is all kinds of stupid.

Seriously, the guy made as much as James Posey....and has no future against the Lakers or Hornets...the two future powers in the West...

[tlongII]

But you're an idiot.

Always nice to hear your brilliant takes! :sleep

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously, the guy made as much as James Posey....and has no future against the Lakers or Hornets...the two future powers in the West...Seriously, Chris Paul made $3,615,960 this season!

[LakerLanny]

Keep Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, and Brent.

Encourage Fin and Rob to retire.

Drop JV and Damon.

Be willing to package any of Bonner, Udoka, Oberto and whoever else is left and see if you can get anything young and decent or maybe to try to move up in the draft.

Have Mahinmi work out all summer with Duncan beginning on Monday.

Get a young swingman who can score with the MLE.

Search for a Bruce Jr. and a backup point.

Draft an athletic 3/4.

A guy like Corey Maggette would be a good fit with your team. He can score and probably wants out of Clipperland as he hates Dumbleavy.

He can create his own shot and get to the line a lot.

You could also use a guy like Jason Maxiell of Detroit, a big bruising player with some inside beef.

[Spaceman Spiff]

A guy like Corey Maggette would be a good fit with your team. He can score and probably wants out of Clipperland as he hates Dumbleavy.

He can create his own shot and get to the line a lot.

You could also use a guy like Jason Maxiell of Detroit, a big bruising player with some inside beef.

Detroit has no incentive to get rid of Maxiell. Maggette is a one-dimensional player who will probably always be overpaid.

[Nbadan]

You also know hes on a ROOKIE contract correct stupid?

My point is he's got a qualifying offer for 08-09 less than Bonner...

[tlongII]

Not much of a marker for 36 year olds that can't dribble. Or pass. Or shoot free throws. And who is invaluable to his current team.

You might be able to deal him to a contender that feels he's the missing piece to their puzzle. Worth a try anyway. I don't get San Antonio's infatuation with the guy. He was completely abused by Kobe.

[ChumpDumper]

My point is he's got a qualifying offer for 08-09 less than Bonner...What kind of point is that?

Are you saying he is going to be signed for that amount?

And are you saying the Spurs could get him for that amount?

[tlongII]

A guy like Corey Maggette would be a good fit with your team. He can score and probably wants out of Clipperland as he hates Dumbleavy.

He can create his own shot and get to the line a lot.

You could also use a guy like Jason Maxiell of Detroit, a big bruising player with some inside beef.

They have no shot at getting either Maggette or Maxiell for the players suggested.

[K-State Spur]

He was completely abused by Kobe.

Until the second half tonight, that statement isn't remotely true.

[T Park]

Until the second half tonight, that statement isn't remotely true.

Honestly, NO ONE would've slowed down Kobe tonight.

Dude was just UNREAL.

[ChumpDumper]

Besides, Bowen still completely owns Brandon Roy, so he's got value.

[Bruno]

When I look at this summer FAs, draft prospects and trade possiblity, i have a hard time to see how Spurs FO will be able to improve the team for next year.
It looks like a damn hard task (even harder is Splitter don't sign with Spurs). Spurs FO will need to have a near perfect offseason. Otherwise, Spurs will be one step behind some teams next year.

[Nbadan]

What kind of point is that?

Are you saying he is going to be signed for that amount?

And are you saying the Spurs could get him for that amount?

No, but Atlanta is overpaying a lot of players already...how much more do you think they'll offer him?

[ChumpDumper]

NoThanks.
Atlanta is overpaying a lot of players already...how much more do you think they'll offer him?More than the Spurs could offer.

Atlanta could give both Smith and Childress near max deals this summer and still have no tax problems for years to come.

[Nbadan]

Bowen and Oberto are coming back....Kurt Thomas is 50-50...

[Streakyshooter08]

When I look at this summer FAs, draft prospects and trade possiblity, i have a hard time to see how Spurs FO will be able to improve the team for next year.
It looks like a damn hard task (even harder is Splitter don't sign with Spurs). Spurs FO will need to have a near perfect offseason. Otherwise, Spurs will be one step behind some teams next year.

Thats what worries me the most. Most of the guys that would fit are restricted free agents. Do you think there is a chance of landing Azubuike or J.R. Smith for the MLE? I gues Azubuike is more likely because the Warriors are stacked at the wing and have Ellis/ Pietrus as free agents.

[Nbadan]

Atlanta could give both Smith and Childress near max deals this summer and still have no tax problems for years to come

If the Spurs get too caught up in trying to avoid the lux tax then they really have no room to make improvements this summer unless they move Ginobili....

[ChumpDumper]

If the Spurs get too caught up in trying to avoid the lux tax then they really have no room to make improvements this summer unless they move Ginobili....The Spurs will have a ton of room under the tax threshold. The trick will be working the right deals to fill up that room.

[T Park]

When I look at this summer FAs, draft prospects and trade possiblity, i have a hard time to see how Spurs FO will be able to improve the team for next year.
It looks like a damn hard task (even harder is Splitter don't sign with Spurs). Spurs FO will need to have a near perfect offseason. Otherwise, Spurs will be one step behind some teams next year.

Eh I don't take as dim a view, but agree to disagree.

[Nbadan]

The Spurs will have a ton of room under the tax threshold. The trick will be working the right deals to fill up that room.

They're probably gonna resign Thomas and Oberto....and they could get Devin Brown back for cheap....

[Bruno]

Do you think there is a chance of landing Azubuike or J.R. Smith for the MLE? I gues Azubuike is more likely because the Warriors are stacked at the wing and have Ellis/ Pietrus as free agents.

JR Smith has has a very good end of the season. I guess Denver will try to keep him even if they have some luxury tax troubles.
Warriors will have choices to make between Azubuike, Barnes and Pietrus. I don't know what will be their choice but if I was there, I would keep Azubuike because he is restricted (easier to keep) and cheaper.

[T Park]

They're probably gonna resign Thomas and Oberto....and they could get Devin Brown back for cheap....

Oberto is already under contract, why would they re resign him?

Thomas could be back, but it more than likely depends if Splitter comes over.

[Streakyshooter08]

JR Smith has has a very good end of the season. I guess Denver will try to keep him even if they have some luxury tax troubles.
Warriors will have choices to make between Azubuike, Barnes and Pietrus. I don't know what will be their choice but if I was there, I would keep Azubuike because he is restricted (easier to keep) and cheaper.

I am not aware of the cap situation in Denver but if you sign him for the MLE and they match would that mean he would cost them ca. 10 mio a year if they are over the threshold? I doubt they would pay that much.

[Nbadan]

Oberto is already under contract, why would they re resign him?

Your right, Hoopshype has his contract undisclosed...none-the-less, I could see the Spurs taking a look at Mickael Pietrus

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs have needed to have invested in a young swingman about 2 seasons ago. With Manu breaking down and getting older, that urgency is now ramped up. Really they could use two new swingmen (draft and FA)

That said, does anyone think DeMarr Johnson has a place on the roster next season?

[NZ Spurs]

David Harrison
Stromile Swift ?????
Fred Jones
Carlos Arroyo
Maurice Evans
Pat Garitty
Jason Hart

[SenorSpur]

Bench doesn't need rebuilding. I want almost everyone back. Just a few additions and moving a couple people up the depth charts.

Disagree completely. Now they may not be able to pull it off now, but there should be at least 4-5 new faces on this roster next year. They cannot continue to stay in contention with 8 guys on the roster, that are 35 years old and older

[Bruno]

I am not aware of the cap situation in Denver but if you sign him for the MLE and they match would that mean he would cost them ca. 10 mio a year if they are over the threshold?

Yes, you're right.
It's a lot of money to spend but they made a lot with AI and Melo merchandising.
I remember of a Nuggets' beat-writter saying that they could try to keep Smith and sold their draft pick to make some cash.

[E20]

Any young guys from our current roster expected to play summer league? (Bonner, Udoka?) Who have the Spurs invited to play?

We could really use Game 5, 6, 7 of the NO series Udoka, all season long.

[SenorSpur]

This is a bit simplistic, but the Spurs need more guys who can score and take some of the regular season burden off the big 3.

Also, Pop needs to be willing to give some of the younger talent some PT during the season. These guys aren't going to develop by sitting in suits behind the bench. I'm thinking of Ian in particular.

....and don't forget DeMarr Johnson. Hell, I'd even give Darius Washington another look. For all the productivity JV gave us, Pop could've given this guy valuable minutes during the winter months. Perhaps he could've developed to a point where he could've spelled Tony. Seems that Pop still has Beno hangover because he doesn't trust young players.

[Typhoon]

go after delfino and herrmann.

[ChumpDumper]

Any young guys from our current roster expected to play summer league? (Bonner, Udoka?) Who have the Spurs invited to play?Ian and many of the other Toros will probably be there, maybe a draft pick or two. The roster won't be finalized until right before Vegas.

[Nbadan]

...assuming he'll opt out of his contract with Phoenix, I wouldn't mind the Spurs signing Grant Hill to replace Horry or Finley's salary slot...

[SenorSpur]

Herrmann is a really intriguing prospect.

He could be had for cheap, his stock isn't that high.

Anybody know what Hermann's contract status is?

[ChumpDumper]

Anybody know what Hermann's contract status is?I'm pretty sure he will be a restricted free agent.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

...assuming he'll opt out of his contract with Phoenix, I wouldn't mind the Spurs signing Grant Hill to replace Horry or Finley's salary slot...

replacing two old guys, with one who can't even stay healthy even IN the regular season??

i don't think that's the best option.

[SenorSpur]

What about Ronny Turiaf? He'd also be a fine addition at PF. He's a young, energetic RFA, yet I wonder if the Fakers would have enough $$$ needed to keep him around.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Disagree completely. Now they may not be able to pull it off now, but there should be at least 4-5 new faces on this roster next year. They cannot continue to stay in contention with 8 guys on the roster, that are 35 years old and older

I would be all for blowing up the whole bench. That was the reason we lost against the Lakers, no new blood.

[Nbadan]

replacing two old guys, with one who can't even stay healthy even IN the regular season??

i don't think that's the best option.

How many regular season games did Horry play again? Hell, Grant could stay on IR the whole season while the Spurs work younger guys...

[LakerLanny]

What about Ronny Turiaf? He'd also be a fine addition at PF. He's a young, energetic RFA, yet I wonder if the Fakers would have enough $$$ needed to keep him around.

If Bynum is ready to go next season, there isn't going to be much playing time in LA for Turiaf I don't think.

If he thought he could play more in SA, he could be someone you could take a run at.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

How many regular season games did Horry play again? Hell, Grant could stay on IR the whole season while the Spurs work younger guys...

I guess if you want them to keep the vet strategy alive and well, switching them etc. (I really hope Finley retires! please!)

..but Grant became a liability for the Suns in the post-season, D'Antoni had to bench him cuz he was hurting.

[mVp]

Herrmann is a really intriguing prospect.

He could be had for cheap, his stock isn't that high.

He's a decent prospect, he finds ways to score and contribute, I really love his Dr. J impersonation with those one-handed moves he makes :lol

He's a decent 3-point shooter too, and he's tough and aggressive... If we can get him for cheap, I'm all for it, he's really a pretty good player, I think his defense could be an issue, but even so.

[Nbadan]

If Bynum is ready to go next season, there isn't going to be much playing time in LA for Turiaf I don't think.

If he thought he could play more in SA, he could be someone you could take a run at.

I like Turiaf's thoughness in the lane, he did about a good a job as any back-up big-guy at slowing Duncan....

[Nbadan]

...the thing about picking up guys that are too young and need a lot of work is that Tim Duncan only has about 3, maybe 4 good years left in him, that's it...so if guys aren't able to make big contributions in the next 2 seasons it's really not fair to Tim...and the Spurs aren't gonna do it....trust me...

[Nbadan]

I guess if you want them to keep the vet strategy alive and well, switching them etc. (I really hope Finley retires! please!)

..but Grant became a liability for the Suns in the post-season, D'Antoni had to bench him cuz he was hurting.

...but he played 70 regular season games an avg of 31.8 minutes...way too much for Hill...keep him at about 20 minutes and you've got a decent chance at him making good contributions offensively in the post season...

[beachwood]

Because the Spurs don't read your posts.

Brilliant.

[Bruno]

Hermann sucks and will go back in Europe.

[ChumpDumper]

Brilliant.That's an in joke.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

...but he played 70 regular season games an avg of 31.8 minutes...way too much for Hill...keep him at about 20 minutes and you've got a decent chance at him making good contributions offensively in the post season...

Yeah, he might be an upgrade from Finley.And his midrange J is okay. But I dont' know about his three. (which made Finley pretty important in 2007)

[ChumpDumper]

...the thing about picking up guys that are too young and need a lot of work is that Tim Duncan only has about 3, maybe 4 good years left in him, that's it...so if guys aren't able to make big contributions in the next 2 seasons it's really not fair to Tim...and the Spurs aren't gonna do it....trust me...Yeah, it will be tough to get guys that are young but not too young for the available money. That's why I wanted more projects on the roster this past season.

[Nbadan]

Yeah, he might be an upgrade from Finley.And his midrange J is okay. But I dont' know about his three. (which made Finley pretty important in 2007)

Spurs died by the 3 this post season....they need a decent mid-range player (which I hope Kurt Thomas and Udoka work on with the Spurs shooting coach this off-season)....

[Galileo]

1) the Spurs need another inside player, 6' 9" or taller, who can rebound. Hopefully block shots as well. Oberto needs to come off the bench. Splitter?

2) the Spurs need to dump some old players and get some young players. We don't need Horry, Stoudemire, Vaughn, Bonner, Finley, Thomas, Udoka or Barry. Half these players must be dropped or moved. Finley should not be starting. Ian?

3) the Spurs need a backup point guard who doesn't suck. I thought Beano and Speedy Claxton were better than what we have now. We need a backup point guard who specializes in assists and steals.

4) Bowen needs to teach Udoka how to play defense if we keep Udoka. Either Udoka sucks, since he didn't start tonight, or he needs to improve his D and share time with Bruce.

[Nbadan]

the Spurs need another inside player, 6' 9" or taller, who can rebound. Hopefully block shots as well. Oberto needs to come off the bench. Splitter?

Splitter is unproven and likely to cost too much since he resigned with Tao...now Turiaf could be a guy to take a look at....

[Nbadan]

the Spurs need to dump some old players and get some young players. We don't need Horry, Stoudemire, Vaughn, Bonner, Finley, Thomas, Udoka or Barry. Half these players must be dropped or moved. Finley should not be starting. Ian?

Vaughn, Udoka and Barry are still under contract, albeit for the vet league minimum for Vaughn and Barry...Thomas would be a decent sign for 3-5 million/per...but only if he works on his mid-range game...

[T Park]

Splitter is unproven and likely to cost too much since he resigned with Tao...now Turiaf could be a guy to take a look at....


He has not resigned with Tao.

Get your facts straight for christ sakes.

[T Park]

Hermann sucks and will go back in Europe.

I disagree.

[Galileo]

The Spurs have had only ONE lottery pic since 1989, and that was Tim Duncan. So we are amazingly good and deep given that condition.

[wijayas]

how about:

Devin Brown
Ron Artest

Do you all think the Bobcats would let Okafor walk? He is unrestricted.

Okafor wants too much money....:bang :bang :bang

[Galileo]

Okafor wants too much money....:bang :bang :bang

trade Ginobili for Okafor!

[mVp]

Hermann sucks and will go back in Europe.

He was a 20 PPG guy at the end of last season, then he got screwed at the start of this season in Charlotte. Then he went to Detroit to be screwed again.

He spend the whole year in the doghouse, of course he sucked this season, but it wasn't his fault, he didn't get any PT to show what he can do.

[Lake_show]

Spurs need upgrades. Gone are the days of minor off-season tweaks. Until then they are done as contenders. Even this season they went to WCF (barely!) but losing 4-1 isn't "contending".
Get a starting SF, move Bowen to backup SF, and get another inside offensive player. Possibly trade Ginobli and pieces.

[Nbadan]

He has not resigned with Tao.

Get your facts straight for christ sakes.

Keep dreaming.....yeah, the Spurs will sign Jamison too.....