Is Kobe the best player since Jordan ?

[ginobili fan]

He really deserved MVP congrats

[ChumpDumper]

I predict you are done for the night.

[ginobili fan]

F*ck you it's just a simple question go fuck yourself

[Ghost Writer]

I was laughed at about 5 years ago when I said that Kobe could be better than Jordan some day.

Yes, he is the closest thing that we've seen to Jordan.

[ChumpDumper]

F*ck you it's just a simple question go fuck yourselfNo.

Now go to bed.

[Mr. Peabody]

I think he is the best offensive player since Jordan. I don't know that he's best all-around since Jordan.

[ginobili fan]

No.

Now go to bed.

No.

[Killakobe81]

Yes he is ... he is not on his level yet but hez close ...but remember he almost beat you by himself down the stretch it was dagger after dagger

[1Parker1]

He wasn't until this season. He no longer takes bad shots, he's a great defender, he lets the game come to him and can absolutely and willfully just takeover a game and unlike Lebron/Wade and company he has the outside shot to do it consistently without the benefit of just power or speed or FT's.

[Killakobe81]

He wasn't until this season. He no longer takes bad shots, he's a great defender, he lets the game come to him and can absolutely and willfully just takeover a game and unlike Lebron/Wade and company he has the outside shot to do it consistently without the benefit of just power or speed or FT's.

I think he was before this but he definitely took another step forward this year but great points ...

[turiaf for president]

yes

[MONTENEGRINO]

Yes he is. People may laugh, but I think that Kobe of 2007/2008 is better than Jordan after 1993. Now, he is on Mike's level in 1991, he will proove it in the finals.

[SRJ]

Not yet.

#21 remains the gold standard post-Jordan.

[15 RINGS BITCH]

he is "the next jordan" right now.

by the end of his career, we may ask is the next guy the next kobe, without a "jordan" in the sentence.

[milkyway21]

to me he is the hardest to guard. HE is unstoppable. Even in his most awkward position, he can still find the rim, just like Mike.
Simply amazing.
It was good for him to end the series tonight bec nobody knows what to happen if they come back to AT&T.

I always respect Kobe's game, I hated the Lakers before bec of ShaQ.

But Tim Duncan is still the the best all-around player to me.
Offense & defense.

[Bob Lanier]

He wasn't until this season. He no longer takes bad shots, he's a great defender, he lets the game come to him and can absolutely and willfully just takeover a game and unlike Lebron/Wade and company he has the outside shot to do it consistently without the benefit of just power or speed or FT's.
:tu

Right now, he's at the level he's worked his entire life to get to. His mid-post game, his outside shot, his slashing, his passing, his defense - he's always been a shadow of Jordan; these last few months he's a copy.

Whether he's "the best player since Jordan" is another story. Right now he's not; Duncan and O'Neal are better. But he's young enough and surrounded by a talented enough supporting cast that he can change that.

[Lakers08Champs]

Kobe > Jordan, plain and simple.

[adidas11]

The best player since Jordan?

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Lebron.

In that order. But over the course of his career, Lebron will eclipse all of them, including Jordan.

[1Parker1]

He also consistently makes the toughest shots of anyone I've seen. Including MJ.

[ednobli2]

Nobody will ever be Jordan. The reason Kobe won the MVP this year is the same reason Al Pacino won Best Actor for Scent of a Woman. He deserved it a few years back. He had a great season but Paul carried his team literally.

[1Parker1]

Kobe > Jordan, plain and simple.

:lmao Ok let's not get delusional. Let's wait until Kobe wins about 3 or 4 more rings before you make that comparison.

[Lake_show]

Best player since Jordan= Kobe

Greatest player since Jordan= Duncan

[Lake_show]

Kobe > Jordan, plain and simple.

To me he is a better player than Jordan, his skill level is amazing. But he still has a while to go to be greater than him.

[nin666]

No fucking way KB is better than MJ. But after his Airness, I would put KB number 2. Then Shaq.

[ballhog]

LeBron is way ahead of where Kobe was at that age. Kobe had Shaq. LeBron has zippo and made it to the finals last year. Didn't he score 20-something straight points against the Pistons in the ECF last year?

[Medvedenko]

Lebron will overtake Kobe....and maybe others as well. That's how it goes when the years go by....however since his airness. Kobe has been the best wing player in the NBA. He's now entering the actual comparison discussion.

[MiamiHeat]

lol

Phil rests Kobe for entire quarters to save him for the 4th quarter where every play is run through Kobe to make him look good

how do you think Phil Jackson accomplishes this?

Because the rest of the Lakers are stacked. they dont need Kobe.

[Lake_show]

LeBron is way ahead of where Kobe was at that age. Kobe had Shaq. LeBron has zippo and made it to the finals last year. Didn't he score 20-something straight points against the Pistons in the ECF last year?

The West is a whole different ballgame.

[Bob Lanier]

And here I thought we were talking about the past, not the future.

One of them is certain.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan is still the best player in the post-jordan era. Kobe's career will be seen in 2 parts. What he did as Shaq's sidekick and what he will do now with his own team. Tim led and was the man on 4 title teams, now Kobe must be the man and get it done to the tune of rings.

[MiamiHeat]

I think i'm going to become a baseball/nfl fan only. I hate how 1 cheating rip-off trade can ruin the league because players are more important on a small nba roster

[dbreiden83080]

The best player since Jordan?

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Lebron.

In that order. But over the course of his career, Lebron will eclipse all of them, including Jordan.

More like

Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron

[Lake_show]

LeBron is way ahead of where Kobe was at that age. Kobe had Shaq. LeBron has zippo and made it to the finals last year. Didn't he score 20-something straight points against the Pistons in the ECF last year?

Don't compare him to Lebron. Lebron cant shoot, he cant defend, hes the team leader and his teammates cannot count on him closing the game up or making the clutch shots because he cant. He is no where near to being as good as Kobe and at age 23, he has accomplished nothing.

[TheMACHINE]

I think Offensivly, Kobe is better than Jordan...Jordan is still the best overall tho.

[dbreiden83080]

Don't compare him to Lebron. Lebron cant shoot, he cant defend, hes the team leader and his teammates cannot count on him closing the game up or making the clutch shots because he cant. He is no where near to being as good as Kobe and at age 23, he has accomplished nothing.

Lebron has 3 rings just like Kobe if he plays with Shaq though.

[ImmortalD24]

1. Kobe
2. Shaq
3. Lebron
4. Duncan

This isn't based on accomplishments, Duncan was never considered the best player in the league.

[Lake_show]

1. Kobe
2. Shaq
3. Lebron
4. Duncan

This isn't based on accomplishments, Duncan was never considered the best player in the league.

1 year he was.

[atxrocker]

don't get me wrong now, Bryant is an amazing basketball player and a champion for sure. as much as you might try to not like the guys game, he just goes out there on the court and shoves it down your fucking throat how talented he is. now is he equal or better than MJ? not just yet, that is a rather high fucking bar to reach. i guess when his career is over we'll really know the answer.

[dbreiden83080]

Don't compare him to Lebron. Lebron cant shoot, he cant defend, hes the team leader and his teammates cannot count on him closing the game up or making the clutch shots because he cant. He is no where near to being as good as Kobe and at age 23, he has accomplished nothing.

Lebron's Jumper is just OK but he is only 23 and i gurantee you by age 26 or 27 he will be burying that jumper in a defenders face like nobody's business, he is bigger, stronger and more athletic than Kobe. His D does need a lot of work though.

[atxrocker]

and lebron continues to be overrated. dude hasn't proven a motherfucking thing.

[dbreiden83080]

1. Kobe
2. Shaq
3. Lebron
4. Duncan

This isn't based on accomplishments, Duncan was never considered the best player in the league.

LOL, WTF are you smoking?? Duncan was easily the best player in the league from 2001-2005 he won back to back league MVP's genius and led the Spurs to 2 titles, finals MVP both times.

You have Kobe ahead of Duncan with ZERO finals MVP's and Lebron ahead of him with Zero Titles, what a joke.

[odogg726]

If the hand check was allowed in today's game, maybe Kobe would be on par with Jordan defensively

[JamStone]

I think they said on the broadcast that Kobe shot 53% for the series. 53% for a perimeter player who probably averaged around 20 FGA a game and didn't really go to the free throw line against the San Antonio Spurs.

That's crazy.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I think they said on the broadcast that Kobe shot 53% for the series. 53% for a perimeter player who probably averaged around 20 FGA a game and didn't really go to the free throw line against the San Antonio Spurs.

That's crazy.

and how many of them points came in scrub minutes or when bowen wasnt defending or on the court with him?

CP3 also padded his stats in those blowout wins against us....

[JamStone]

and how many of them points came in scrub minutes or when bowen wasnt defending or on the court with him?

I would guess 15% or less.

[MiamiHeat]

If the hand check was allowed in today's game, maybe Kobe would be on par with Jordan defensively

if the hand check and all the other rules they changed to make more scorers (kobe, lebron etc)

jordan would have been so good offensively, this thread would never exist.

[Dim Tuncan]

if the hand check and all the other rules they changed to make more scorers (kobe, lebron etc)

Yeah... All those rules they changed.... Like permiting the zone defense....


NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXT................. :sleep

[SAtown]

Bryant is light years ahead of anyone else in the league. He is easily the second best player that has ever played the game

[DazedAndConfused]

Lebron James will never be as complete a player as Kobe Bryant is. Never.

He isn't of the same mold as Bryant or MJ. His strength is his power game. He can finish and get to the rim far better than Kobe or MJ ever could in their athletic primes. That's where he excels. His jumpshot IS and will always be mediocre at best. He doesn't have the finesse or the touch and that is really something you either have or you don't. When all is said and done Lebron James will be remembered as Lebron James, not the heir to Kobe or Jordan. He is a unique player, the likes of which this league has never seen.......but he is not even close to being as complete a player as Kobe or MJ.

[21_Blessings]

Lebronze's post game is pitiful for someone his size/speed. He's all athleticism and won't be nearly as dominate in his 30's like MJ was or Kobe will be.

[Bob Lanier]

People who say James will never develop a jumpshot or post-up footwork are just as foolish as those who say he's destined to be the greatest player ever.

Maybe, maybe not. Nobody starts out perfect, and everyone fails to some degree in their pursuit of perfection.

James has vastly improved his defense since he's entered the NBA. There's no reason that he couldn't develop a serviceable jumpshot (not on Bryant's level, to be sure; that's too much a matter of practice) and certainly a mid or low post game (much more just a matter of understanding and implementation). It's just a question of how much he wants it.

From what we've heard, he wants to be a billionaire. He can do that without a complete offensive game.

[Dim Tuncan]

Lebronze's post game is pitiful for someone his size/speed. He's all athleticism and won't be nearly as dominate in his 30's like MJ was or Kobe will be.

No, it isn't. It's all about trade-offs.

The same attributes that make his so powerful in the open court or driving preclude him from having the intricate footwork of, say, a Kobe or a Paul Pierce, or excellent man-to-man defense.

The main hole in LeBron's game is his post play. A guy with his size, strength and speed should be much better with his back to the basket rather than being limited to facing the basket.

He's young so there's time for him to improve, but the problem I see is that he's surrounded by yes men who won't call him out on areas he needs to improve in.

[41times]

Kobe is def best player since Jordan. He has the complete game. He can score 30 points or more any and every night. He can play in your jock defense. He can rebound and assist when needed. He is the complete leader on the court. All of those things just like Jordan. And he has the killer instinct just like Jordan.

Again, I hate the man.....love his game.

[gaKNOW!blee]

LOL.

By the time Kobe takes as many shots as Jordan finished with he will have missed over 1,200 more times.

[Indazone]

His Airness Michael Jordan is the best that ever was. Kobe comes close but no.

[MiamiHeat]

KoMe is a Jordan copycat. He's the best at copying MJ. His whole game, jumper fadeaways, style of attacking rim, everything is bitten off MJ tapes.

[Dopey310]

KoMe is a Jordan copycat. He's the best at copying MJ. His whole game, jumper fadeaways, style of attacking rim, everything is bitten off MJ tapes.

The entire Heat organization is not worthy of Kobe. :toast

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yes he is best since Jordan era end. Kobe is much better than Lebron and people say different must be make joke. But he is still even now not as good as Jordan was.

[Spur-Addict]

Lebron James will never be as complete a player as Kobe Bryant is. Never.

He isn't of the same mold as Bryant or MJ. His strength is his power game. He can finish and get to the rim far better than Kobe or MJ ever could in their athletic primes. That's where he excels. His jumpshot IS and will always be mediocre at best. He doesn't have the finesse or the touch and that is really something you either have or you don't. When all is said and done Lebron James will be remembered as Lebron James, not the heir to Kobe or Jordan. He is a unique player, the likes of which this league has never seen.......but he is not even close to being as complete a player as Kobe or MJ.

I'm glad you can see the future of LBJ. If I recall a bit, I certainly seen him nailing tre balls in several clutch moments including the playoffs. Don't hate on the man, he was far better than Kobe at 18, he will always continue to improve and best Kobe at whatever age. One does not have to be in the mold of MJ to be great. LBJ is proving that right now. I certainly remember it taking Kobe time to get better on Defense, Scottie torched him in the playoffs. Additionally, i'd rather be more original than a biter. Please, lets stop mentioning kobe in the same breath as Mike, it's a joke.

:wakeup

[MateoNeygro]

I'd say he's the best player that is like Jordan by far same type of game, but i'm a spurs fan so i'd say best big man is duncan best wing is KOBE, It must be nice to have a player like Kobe on your favorite team, cause no matter what kinda shot he takes you gotta believe it's going in. KOBE is sick but i still hate the lakers

[alamo50]

This is a non question.
After MJ, Kobe is the best pure basketball player......ever.

[stretch]

LOL i love how these Kobe lovers just love to hate on Lebron, as if it has anything to do with how good Kobe is. fact is, if Kobe is so much better than Lebron, why do you all always have to bash on Lebron, in order to defend Kobe? Why do you even worry about Lebron, or mention him, since he is LIGHT YEARS behind Kobe? If that is the case, why dont yall bash on how much better Kobe is than Ryan Bowen, or David Lee? He is light years ahead of them too.

Lame.

[Allanon]

LOL i love how these Kobe lovers just love to hate on Lebron, as if it has anything to do with how good Kobe is. fact is, if Kobe is so much better than Lebron, why do you all always have to bash on Lebron, in order to defend Kobe? Why do you even worry about Lebron, or mention him, since he is LIGHT YEARS behind Kobe? If that is the case, why dont yall bash on how much better Kobe is than Ryan Bowen, or David Lee? He is light years ahead of them too.

Lame.

I like LeBron but he's not going to win any rings while Kobe is still playing well. I can see him ending his career with 0 rings. Although I think he'll earn 1-2 rings somewhere around 2015.

EDITED my Post, he'll get his probably around 2015.

He was just born at the wrong time like Barkley.

[monosylab1k]

I like LeBron but he's not going to win any rings while Kobe is still playing well. I can see him ending his career with 0 rings.

He was just born at the wrong time like Barkley.

lmao every time they go head-to-head LeBron makes it a point to turn Kobe into a white girl from Colorado.

If we ever see a Cavs-Lakers Finals, LeBron wins that shit easy.

[stretch]

it is true. head to head, Lebron is a bad matchup for Kobe. Kobe is not fast or strong enough to handle him on either side of the ball. and this is one of those matchups where Lebron really steps his defense up, and it turns into hell for Kobe every time.

Lebron just needs a better team/coach.

[stretch]

and one-on-one, Lebron is probably the hardest player in the league to stop.

However, in terms of having a teams entire defensive aim to stop a player, Kobe is harder to stop than Lebron right now, because Kobe's jumper and teammates are better.

but both are still pretty much unstoppable in either manner.

[mavs>spurs2]

it is true. head to head, Lebron is a bad matchup for Kobe. Kobe is not fast or strong enough to handle him on either side of the ball. and this is one of those matchups where Lebron really steps his defense up, and it turns into hell for Kobe every time.

Lebron just needs a better team/coach.

He's fast enough, just not big or strong enough. I don't know that i've ever watched a Cavs/Lakers game, but I would think they wouldn't even guard eachother? That would be an interesting matchup if they did.

[LakeShow]

When it's all said and done, Kobe Bryant will go down in history as the G.O.A.T,...

Kobe played a few seasons with hand checks and florished. MJ never had to deal with a zone, kobe does. If Kobe didn't have to deal with a zone and being the main player as Jordan was in Chicago his numbers would be off the chart.

If he can win 2 or 3 championships, it'll give him the edge. KB's the Man!!

[stretch]

He's fast enough, just not big or strong enough. I don't know that i've ever watched a Cavs/Lakers game, but I would think they wouldn't even guard eachother? That would be an interesting matchup if they did.

Well yea, hes fast, but lebrons size, strength, and quickness negates it.

[21_Blessings]

He's fast enough, just not big or strong enough. I don't know that i've ever watched a Cavs/Lakers game, but I would think they wouldn't even guard eachother? That would be an interesting matchup if they did.

They have. Kobe has hit two game winners over Bron in his career and Lebron hit a game winner over Kobe this year.

[stretch]

When it's all said and done, Kobe Bryant will go down in history as the G.O.A.T,...

Kobe played a few seasons with hand checks and florished. MJ never had to deal with a zone, kobe does. If Kobe didn't have to deal with a zone and being the main player as Jordan was in Chicago his numbers would be off the chart.

If he can win 2 or 3 championships, it'll give him the edge. KB's the Man!!

Actually MJ did deal with a zone. He won a national championship dealing with it.

and im sick of the bullshit "MJ didnt deal with a zone" crap. they DID play zones in the 80s, they just did it in a more subtle way. also, the 3 second rule that is in place kinda negates a LOT of the effectiveness of a zone, which was basically what led to being called for an illegal defense in the 80s, having a man just perch in the paint. its not much different at all. and the best defensive teams today play suffocating man defense. zone just isnt used very often, period.

plus his midrange shot was so good, the zone really would not have bothered him much. and hand checking is FAR tougher to deal with than zone. if you have a good jumpshot, then the zone is useless. Kobe dealt with handchecking, but i dont know where you get the idea that he flourished. he played well, yes, but I wouldn't say he really flourished until it was already gone. besides, a in 94-95 handchecking from the halfcourt to the freethrow line was outlawed, so that will make a MAJOR difference in the effectiveness of a handcheck. quite often when a player drives, they will start well before the free throw line, and by time they get there, they should already be by their man.

i think the argument could be used that if Jordan played in todays league, where you arent allowed to hand check and get away with cheap fouls like in the 80s, he could flourish even more. it goes both ways. fact is, Jordan is the GOAT right now, and people need to stop taking away from his greatness, because if it wasnt for him, there would be no Kobe Bryant, period.

[stretch]

They have. Kobe has hit two game winners over Bron in his career and Lebron hit a game winner over Kobe this year.

Actually Kobe hit ONE game winner, and that was back in 2005. Since that game, Kobe has not beat Lebron ONCE.

This year, in both games, Kobe could not handle Lebron down the stretch, while Lebron manhanded Kobe on both ends.

[Allanon]

Kobe needs 4 more rings to even be considered over MJ in terms of G.O.A.T. strictly in basketball terms.

Considering that MJ only had 2 at this age (and dicked around because of baseball for 2 more years), Kobe has a good chance of getting more as he is working on #4.

I don't think LeBron can ever catch MJ or Kobe in the ring department given his career path so far. So although LeBron is a phenomenal talent, he'll never be talked about in the G.O.A.T discussion.

People of this era will probably never consider Kobe over MJ no matter how many rings but in 20 years, it's very possible (assuming Kobe gets more than 7 rings).

[LakeShow]

Actually MJ did deal with a zone. He won a national championship dealing with it.

and im sick of the bullshit "MJ didnt deal with a zone" crap. they DID play zones in the 80s, they just did it in a more subtle way. also, the 3 second rule that is in place kinda negates a LOT of the effectiveness of a zone, which was basically what led to being called for an illegal defense in the 80s, having a man just perch in the paint. its not much different at all. and the best defensive teams today play suffocating man defense. zone just isnt used very often, period.

plus his midrange shot was so good, the zone really would not have bothered him much. and hand checking is FAR tougher to deal with than zone. if you have a good jumpshot, then the zone is useless. Kobe dealt with handchecking, but i dont know where you get the idea that he flourished. he played well, yes, but I wouldn't say he really flourished until it was already gone. besides, a in 94-95 handchecking from the halfcourt to the freethrow line was outlawed, so that will make a MAJOR difference in the effectiveness of a handcheck. quite often when a player drives, they will start well before the free throw line, and by time they get there, they should already be by their man.

i think the argument could be used that if Jordan played in todays league, where you arent allowed to hand check and get away with cheap fouls like in the 80s, he could flourish even more. it goes both ways. fact is, Jordan is the GOAT right now, and people need to stop taking away from his greatness, because if it wasnt for him, there would be no Kobe Bryant, period.

No argument there, but the zone that MJ dealed with is nothing like the zone of today. I do think that Jordan would have adjusted as well. Both are Great players.

[stretch]

No argument there, but the zone that MJ dealed with is nothing like the zone of today. I do think that Jordan would have adjusted as well. Both are Great players.

I agree that zone was different, but either way, Jordan and Kobe both have virtually the same skill-set, and and pick apart either defense.

So what kinds of moves are your Rockets going to make this offseason?

[LakeShow]

I agree that zone was different, but either way, Jordan and Kobe both have virtually the same skill-set, and and pick apart either defense.

So what kinds of moves are your Rockets going to make this offseason?

Don't have a clue, but my Lakers will make none.

[stretch]

Don't have a clue, but my Lakers will make none.

they arent your lakers

[LakeShow]

they arent your lakers

In your world!

[stretch]

In your world!

your team is the rockets

[LakeShow]

your team is the rockets

uh, my team is the Lakers, deal with it!

[21_Blessings]

Actually Kobe hit ONE game winner, and that was back in 2005. Since that game, Kobe has not beat Lebron ONCE.

This year, in both games, Kobe could not handle Lebron down the stretch, while Lebron manhanded Kobe on both ends.


Kobe knocked down a bunch of huge shots in the last 2 minutes in Lebron's face during the team USA intra scrimmage. Kobe then forced Lebronze into a bad shot on the other end.

While Lebron did get the best of Kobe down the stretch of the last game they played (not the first one) Kobe outplayed him for the previous 40 minutes before his teammates decided to completely disappear. This was right after Bynum got hurt so the team was struggling somewhat.

Oh yeah, 'regular season'. Kobe would destroy Lebron and his 41% shooting in the playoffs.

[stretch]

uh, my team is the Lakers, deal with it!

no it isnt

[stretch]

Kobe knocked down a game winner Lebron's face during the team USA intra scrimmage

While Lebron did get the best of Kobe down the stretch of the last game they played (not the first one) Kobe outplayed him for previous 40 minutes before his teammates decded to completely disappear. This was right after Bynum got hurt so the team was struggling somewhat.

Okay, you're a fucking idiot.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Okay, you're a fucking idiot.

:lmao referencing a scrimmage

[21_Blessings]

Okay, you're a fucking idiot.

Yeah I forgot that Kobe was schooling Lebron so bad in the final 2 minutes of that game they took him off Kobe and put Prince on him for the last shot. It was funny.

[21_Blessings]

:lmao referencing a scrimmage

referencing a regular season game :rollin

That team usa game was better basketball than 100% of the regular season that was played this year. Both teams were out there to win.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

That team usa game was better basketball than 100% of the regular season that was played this year.
I guess it's something you had to witness where you had to be there, such a golden game that would go down in the annals of history. I deeply regret taking last summer for granted now.


Both teams were out there to win.

Weren't the announcers saying that about the All-Star game this year as well?

"Both teams want to win now.. it's on now, " during the fourth quarter. "This is getting exciting! "

[21_Blessings]

I guess it's something you had to witness where you had to be there, such a golden game that would go down in the annals of history. I deeply regret taking last summer for granted now.



Weren't the announcers saying that about the All-Star game this year as well?

"Both teams want to win now.. it's on now, " during the fourth quarter. "This is getting exciting! "

Yeah you're stupid. First off, a bunch of those guys were playing for a spot on the Team USA roster. If you actually watched the game you would know it was more competitive than any All-Star game ever. Defintely trumped any meaningless regular season December/January game in terms of intesity.

[monosylab1k]

I don't think LeBron can ever catch MJ or Kobe in the ring department given his career path so far.

Are you fuckin retarded? LeBron is 23 years old and he's already carried his incredibly bad team to the Finals.

Do you even know how old Michael was when he got his first championship? 27. LeBron is 4 years away from that. And Kobe is what, 30, and he's just now on the brink of winning his first as the leader of the team?

If anything, LeBron's career path suggests that he's on pace to beat out both Jordan and Kobe. Not saying it will happen, but to say his career path doesn't put him at Kobe & MJ's level is straight up stupid.

[Leetonidas]

and lebron continues to be overrated. dude hasn't proven a motherfucking thing.

I disagree. At 22 years old, he led his team single-handedly to the Finals and put up 25 straight points against the Pistons. At TWENTY-TWO. I don't like LeBron that much, but damn if he is not an amazing talent. If he had a shot like Kobe, LeBron would be averaging 40 points a game. He and Kobe are probably the toughest covers in the league. Kobe can shoot from anywhere but LeBron is so damn strong and explosive.

He's already averaging 30+ a game and he's 23 right now.

Think about that. Kid is nowhere close to his prime.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Yeah you're stupid. First off, a bunch of those guys were playing for a spot on the Team USA roster. If you actually watched the game you would know it was more competitive than any All-Star game ever. Defintely trumped any meaningless regular season December/January game in terms of intesity.
:lmao More like a glorified practice game at best.

You missed the point. All games are competitive. Put a bunch of competitive players of all star talent, you're going to see "intensity" surface when the games are close, regardless.
I could use your logic to support the meaning OF a January regular season game citing their significance. :lol

[Leetonidas]

Let me add that since Jordan retired, Tim Duncan has probably been the best player, in terms of leading his team and winning titles, MVPs, Finals MVPs, etc. Shaq was only really good in the Laker 3-peat. He slowed down noticeably afterwards.

However, Kobe Bryant has been the best offensive player and a great defensive player. He IS MJ v2.0. He has always been an amazing player and this year he has really stepped his game up. Like 1Parker1 said, he knows when to take over, when to get his teammates involved, and can take the game over whenever he wants. You think you got Kobe under control and then he puts up 27 points on you in a half like it's nothing.

Leading up to this, Tim Duncan has been the most complete and best player in terms of his team's success because he was the driving force and the main reason the Spurs have 4 titles. But Kobe Bryant, in terms of individual talent, is far better than anyone else has been. Miles ahead.

[Allanon]

Are you fuckin retarded? LeBron is 23 years old and he's already carried his incredibly bad team to the Finals.

Do you even know how old Michael was when he got his first championship? 27. LeBron is 4 years away from that. And Kobe is what, 30, and he's just now on the brink of winning his first as the leader of the team?

If anything, LeBron's career path suggests that he's on pace to beat out both Jordan and Kobe. Not saying it will happen, but to say his career path doesn't put him at Kobe & MJ's level is straight up stupid.

Kobe and MJ always played for the same team and you knew it THAT team would be a champion sooner or later. The Cavaliers aren't going to win a championship, their roster moves have been very questionable. Without a wholesale change of that roster, they're not going anywhere.

Ben Wallace is signed at $14 Million in 09/2010
Their entire roster is basically locked up next year for another early Playoff exit.

LeBron has a screwed up career path. The Cavs aren't a big free agent market. Their "big trade" brought in Wally Sczerbiak and Joe Smith...what hope does LeBron have of winning a championship with the Cavaliers?

[Leetonidas]

Kobe and MJ always played for the same team and you knew it THAT team would be a champion sooner or later. The Cavaliers aren't going to win a championship, their roster moves have been very questionable. Without a wholesale change of that roster, they're not going anywhere.

Ben Wallace is signed at $14 Million in 09/2010
Their entire roster is basically locked up next year for another early Playoff exit.

LeBron has a screwed up career path. The Cavs aren't a big free agent market...what hope does LeBron have of winning a championship with the Cavaliers?

LeBron probably will not stay in Cleveland dude. He is destined for a large market.

[Allanon]

LeBron probably will not stay in Cleveland dude. He is destined for a large market.

I agree, but that's not going to happen until 2011. This is why LeBron is at a major disadvantage. He's going to need to get traded before he starts winning.

Then after he gets traded or walks, he's going to have to get to know his team. LeBron will have a max contract which means any contending team needs to gut in order to get him. Scrub teams wouldn't have the pieces. They'll have to build around him....his new team won't start being serious probably until 2014.

Lebron's a phenomenal player but his career path probably won't allow him to overtake Kobe or MJ for number of rings. He would have "wasted" (no disrespect to Cleveland fans) his last 4 years and the next 2 years with the Cavs and then another 3 years building with his new team.

[Supergirl]

No.

[Medvedenko]

Yes

[DazedAndConfused]

Any student of the game can clearly see Lebron isn't close to as talented or polished as Kobe. His skillset is limited in comparison, whereas Bryant is pretty much developed in all areas.

A lot of people are bringing up this season's stats as a comparison to why Lebron is better, but stats are misleading. For starters, Lebron James touches the ball on every single possession and has literally nobody around him to help out scoring wise. He carries the same burden that Kobe carried the last two seasons, so obviously his scoring is going to be better than Kobe. His assist numbers are also inflated since he is essentially the PG of the team, whereas Kobe plays in the triangle offense. Let's not forget he also plays in a weaker EC which further inflates his stats.

The bottom line is stats aren't really a useful comparator between these two players.

[stretch]

Any student of the game can clearly see Lebron isn't close to as talented or polished as Kobe. His skillset is limited in comparison, whereas Bryant is pretty much developed in all areas.

A lot of people are bringing up this season's stats as a comparison to why Lebron is better, but stats are misleading. For starters, Lebron James touches the ball on every single possession and has literally nobody around him to help out scoring wise. He carries the same burden that Kobe carried the last two seasons, so obviously his scoring is going to be better than Kobe. His assist numbers are also inflated since he is essentially the PG of the team, whereas Kobe plays in the triangle offense. Let's not forget he also plays in a weaker EC which further inflates his stats.

The bottom line is stats aren't really a useful comparator between these two players.

So then what is a useful "comparator" between these two players?

Are you telling us that we are just supposed to believe in your opinion, when you didn't really state anything that proves Kobe is so much better?

And is "comparator" even a word? If so, I've never heard it, so forgive me.

[stretch]

and still i think its funny how lakers fans are just obsessed with lebron, and finding ways to discredit the guy, yet claim "Kobe is light years ahead of him". if he is so much better, then why compare the two in the first place?

[Leetonidas]

Any student of the game can clearly see Lebron isn't close to as talented or polished as Kobe. His skillset is limited in comparison, whereas Bryant is pretty much developed in all areas.

A lot of people are bringing up this season's stats as a comparison to why Lebron is better, but stats are misleading. For starters, Lebron James touches the ball on every single possession and has literally nobody around him to help out scoring wise. He carries the same burden that Kobe carried the last two seasons, so obviously his scoring is going to be better than Kobe. His assist numbers are also inflated since he is essentially the PG of the team, whereas Kobe plays in the triangle offense. Let's not forget he also plays in a weaker EC which further inflates his stats.

The bottom line is stats aren't really a useful comparator between these two players.

LeBron is also 23 and Kobe Bryant is like 30 or about to turn 30.

He's got time to catch up.

[DazedAndConfused]

LeBron is also 23 and Kobe Bryant is like 30 or about to turn 30.

He's got time to catch up.

I agree.

But I will say this, I don't believe Lebron is a pure shooter. I don't think he will ever have the touch that Kobe or MJ has from midrange. I just don't see it in his arsenal. His free throw shooting says it all IMHO, shooting a mediocre 70 something percent.

We won't remember Lebron James as being the heir to MJ or KB. We will remember Lebron James as Lebron James. He is a unique player that doesn't really fit anyone's mold. At his position there isn't a single player in this league that can match his athleticism. He can get to and finish around the basket better than anyone I've ever seen play the game. I wish people would stop comparing him to MJ or Kobe, because truthfully he isn't very similar to either player.

[Cry Havoc]

I agree.

But I will say this, I don't believe Lebron is a pure shooter. I don't think he will ever have the touch that Kobe or MJ has from midrange. I just don't see it in his arsenal. His free throw shooting says it all IMHO, shooting a mediocre 70 something percent.

We won't remember Lebron James as being the heir to MJ or KB. We will remember Lebron James as Lebron James. He is a unique player that doesn't really fit anyone's mold. At his position there isn't a single player in this league that can match his athleticism. He can get to and finish around the basket better than anyone I've ever seen play the game. I wish people would stop comparing him to MJ or Kobe, because truthfully he isn't very similar to either player.

He might be the most athletic player in the history of professional sports, in terms of build, height, jumping ability, speed, and feel for the game. He's a bigger, stronger, possibly faster Magic Johnson. IF he develops a shooting touch and steps his defense up a notch (which will likely improve with age), he will be the single most dynamic player in history. He'll be able to guard anyone from the 2-4 spots and play the 1-4 with ease. He isn't the next Jordan, but he's got the potential to be as good or better. Not many individuals you can say that about.

[DazedAndConfused]

He might be the most athletic player in the history of professional sports, in terms of build, height, jumping ability, speed, and feel for the game. He's a bigger, stronger, possibly faster Magic Johnson. IF he develops a shooting touch and steps his defense up a notch (which will likely improve with age), he will be the single most dynamic player in history. He'll be able to guard anyone from the 2-4 spots and play the 1-4 with ease. He isn't the next Jordan, but he's got the potential to be as good or better. Not many individuals you can say that about.

Again, you're trying to argue what he could become instead of what he is now. If that's the case then yes, Lebron has the POTENTIAL to surpass both Kobe and MJ in terms of overall stats and dominance of the game.

That being said, I don't believe Lebron will ever have the shooting touch required to become as dominant as Kobe and MJ are today. It's one of those things you either have or you don't. That pitiful shooting performance he put up against BOS said it all for me. This guy will never be as complete as KB or MJ.

[Medvedenko]

He might be the most athletic player in the history of professional sports, in terms of build, height, jumping ability, speed, and feel for the game. He's a bigger, stronger, possibly faster Magic Johnson. IF he develops a shooting touch and steps his defense up a notch (which will likely improve with age), he will be the single most dynamic player in history. He'll be able to guard anyone from the 2-4 spots and play the 1-4 with ease. He isn't the next Jordan, but he's got the potential to be as good or better. Not many individuals you can say that about.


Funny, I remember the same shit being touted about Kobe after his first couple of seasons....interesting.

[Avitus1]

The answer to this question lies within the answer to the following question...

Is ginobili_fan our greatest poster?

[Allanon]

That being said, I don't believe Lebron will ever have the shooting touch required to become as dominant as Kobe and MJ are today. It's one of those things you either have or you don't.

Good point.

LeBron is bigger, stronger and just as athletic as Kobe and MJ. However, his possible skillset seems more limited and I haven't seen much improvement in other areas. Kobe came into the league as a kid with mad handles and a dunk champ, Jordan was the ultimate jumper. Both evolved and greatly improved their game year after year.

4 years and LeBron is still the unstoppable slasher but no serious improvement in other areas. I think he will develop a post-game but I don't know if he'll ever get a reliable jumpshot.

[Leetonidas]

Don't forget though, that LeBron doesn't necessarily need a great shooting touch. He can pretty much get to the rim whenever he wants. And if you try to stop him, he is fast enough to go around you, strong enough to go into you, and athletic enough to throw it down on you. If he shot 85% from the line and could hit a midrange jumper with decent consistency, he would literally become unstoppable.

DazedAndConfused is right though. Of course he has the POTENTIAL to be better or just as good. I think if, and that's a big if, he can add a consistent midrange jumpshot to his ability and increase his defense just a little bit (he has the potential to be a defensive monster), then he will truly be one of the all-time greats before it's over.

But yes, he really isn't like Jordan at all. Kobe Bryant on the other hand is almost like a Jordan clone.

[genomefreak13]

No.Duncan or Shaq maybe - they won championships for their team. Kobe never won an NBA championship for his team.