LUDDEN: Spurs will make changes to keep pace in West

[spurscenter]

Spurs will make changes to keep pace in West

By Johnny Ludden

LOS ANGELES – For eight days the San Antonio Spurs could feel Kobe Bryant and his Los Angeles Lakers gaining on them. Even in that oh-so-fleeting moment when they announced their return to the Western Conference finals by surging to a 20-point lead, they knew. These Lakers weren’t going away. They were younger, faster, fresher, and, as the Spurs were forced to finally admit, better.

Their championship reign over, their attempts at winning that long-elusive repeat title again dismissed, the Spurs trudged to their locker room late Thursday. The Lakers had overtaken them again, this time roaring back from a 17-point deficit to end the series in five games, and, deep down, the Spurs knew something else.

They might never get this close again.


The Spurs’ championship window hasn’t closed just yet. Tim Duncan likely won’t lose a step because he’s never had one. Tony Parker is young and driven enough to get better. Manu Ginobili ended this series the same way he began it, exhausted and hurt, but he’s also coming off the best season of his career. With Gregg Popovich guiding them, the Spurs’ core should again rank as one of the league’s best.

But these Lakers also aren’t going away. Nor are the New Orleans Hornets or Utah Jazz. The Portland Trail Blazers should be better. All of them are younger.

“We’re going to have to face that reality,” Spurs owner Peter Holt said.

The Spurs will face it the way they always do. They learn from their mistakes and they move forward. After losing the first two games of their conference semifinal series with the Hornets, Popovich and his staff debated how they could have improved their roster during the season. Should they have made a harder push to sign Sam Cassell instead of Damon Stoudamire? They could have acquired Delonte West from Seattle for a first-round pick, but passed after watching West play poorly in a game against them. Was that a mistake?

What’s done is done, Popovich told his staff. They made the decisions with the best information they had. They probably weren’t going to get Cassell and trading for West likely would have prevented them from landing Kurt Thomas later in the season. Second-guessing wasn’t going to help now, so they better focus on finding a way to get past the Hornets.

The Spurs rallied to beat New Orleans in seven games, but that left them spent for the conference finals. They lost a night of rest to airline problems then lost a game when their old nemesis, Joey Crawford, swallowed his whistle on the final play of Game 4. Popovich publicly downplayed the impact of the non-call, but privately he wasn’t too happy Crawford was allowed to officiate the game. League officials can expect to hear from the Spurs at some point this summer.

Still, Popovich also knows bad luck is not why the Spurs lost. The Spurs, he said, “just played a team that was better.”

Popovich downplayed the need for the Spurs to “wholesale change things.” Duncan also said he did “love what we had this year.” Both, however, know the team is headed for a bigger transition this summer than last. Robert Horry hasn’t decided whether to retire, but his stay with the Spurs is likely over. Same for Michael Finley and Stoudamire. Thomas also will be a free agent, but the Spurs want to re-sign him.

There will be pressure on San Antonio GM R.C. Buford to rediscover some of his draft-night magic. Finding an athletic and a backup point guard are the priorities. The Spurs also will have their $5 million midlevel exception to spend. Corey Maggette figures to be out of their reach, so they might resort to trying to pry away a restricted free agent. The Spurs have had previous interest in Toronto’s Carlos Delfino, but the most likely target was standing across from them on Thursday.

Sasha Vujacic impressed Spurs officials throughout the series. He isn’t well-liked among other international players, which might not work considering the Spurs have a couple of them, but he’s an active defender and he can shoot – two traits Popovich covets. The Lakers don’t figure to let Vujacic leave, particularly if he goes on to help them win a championship. At the least, though, the Spurs will try to drive up his price.

Even before the Lakers ran past them, the Spurs knew they needed younger legs. They were short on energy from the start of the conference finals, and not all of it can be blamed on the night they spent on a New Orleans tarmac. The short turnaround between series didn’t work in their favor, but there’s no guarantee they won’t run into the same situation next season.

“That’s got to be in the back of our minds going forward,” Holt said. “We had a good regular season injury-wise, but we were tired. Is it an age factor? Was it just the timing of everything? I don’t know yet.”

Ginobili particularly struggled with the every-other-day schedule of the conference finals, and it didn’t help that he was playing on a bad left ankle. He lacked his usual explosiveness, scoring more than 10 points in only one of the five games. Not surprisingly, that was the only game the Spurs won.

“I never felt like this in a postseason since I’ve been here,” Ginobili said. “It was kind of hard for me to fight through it and try to forget it.”

Ginobili will now spend part of his summer playing for Argentina in the Beijing Olympics, which naturally has Holt “very worried.” He will have September to recover and Popovich won’t hesitate to rest him early in the season, if needed. Still, the Spurs will need to strengthen their bench, and Thursday’s news from Spain won’t help.

The Spurs had hoped to bring over last year’s first-round pick, Tiago Splitter, to improve their frontline next season, but the Brazilian forward reportedly has decided to sign a larger contract to remain in Spain. With the U.S. dollar weakening against the Euro and Russia’s big-money teams inflating the Euroleague market, Splitter figures to receive millions more than he would get from the Spurs. Spurs officials, who haven’t received official word from Splitter’s representative about the contract, could have to wait another two years to sign him.

One coach said Splitter’s decision could be a “blessing in disguise” for the Spurs because it would force them to take a longer look at their 2005 first-round pick, 21-year-old French forward Ian Mahinmi. But even that’s wishful thinking. A number of NBA scouts predicted Splitter to become a productive rotation member, if not a starter, while Mahinmi, despite his tremendous athleticism, is still learning the game.

The Spurs still hold the rights to another international big man, Lithuania’s Robertas Javtokas. But not getting Splitter makes the team’s decision to trade Argentine forward Luis Scola to the Houston Rockets appear that much more regrettable. One of the reasons the Spurs said they traded Scola was that Splitter would be a better fit alongside Duncan. Popovich, however, simmered over the Scola deal throughout the season because it violated one of his long-held edicts: Never help a rival.

Unless he had a spare ankle to lend Ginobili, there’s no guarantee Scola would have helped the Spurs beat the Lakers. But he’ll likely be starting for the Rockets again next season, and if Yao Ming finally stays healthy? The West will be that much tougher.

Andrew Bynum’s knee also is on the mend, which should only strengthen the Lakers. The Hornets will try to improve their bench. Deron Williams will come back hungrier in Utah.

Deep down, the Spurs know all of this. That’s why Ginobili looked so frustrated as he finally left the locker room late Thursday.

“We feel,” he said, “like we let another opportunity get away.”

[Anti.Hero]

They let any and all hopes of the uber-legacy slip away. Now they can never reach the same level of greatness as if they had won again this year.

[Holt's Cat]

One of the reasons the Spurs said they traded Scola was that Splitter would be a better fit alongside Duncan. Popovich, however, simmered over the Scola deal throughout the season because it violated one of his long-held edicts: Never help a rival.

[ducks]

Popovich publicly downplayed the impact of the non-call, but privately he wasn’t too happy Crawford was allowed to officiate the game. League officials can expect to hear from the Spurs at some point this summer.

[Big P]

Vujacic?? Hell no, he isn't what we need.

[Mr. Body]

Holt needs to realize his chintziness led to a premature decline of this team's championship contention. Not saying he should have spent freely, but his hard cap has cost at a greater multiple than his savings.

Yes, they should have went for Cassell instead of Stoudamire. That was obvious.

Yes, they should have traded for Delonte West, if that was available.

No, they shouldn't have wasted yet another draft pick in trading for Kurt Thomas.

No, absolutely they shouldn't have traded Luis Scola, much less to a rival.

Yes, they should have drafted Tiago Splitter last year. That was a great pick at the time.

No, they shouldn't have resigned Bonner for more than minimum salary.

Yes, they should have played Bonner if they had him. At least he was youthful.

Draft coming up. Here's hoping they pull a rabbit or two out of the hat.

[stxspurs]

why dont the euros like sasha....

[Mr. Body]

why dont the euros like sasha....

He's a dick? Just guessing.

[1Parker1]

“I never felt like this in a postseason since I’ve been here,” Ginobili said. “It was kind of hard for me to fight through it and try to forget it.”

Probably because you were averaging about 40 minutes there for a stretch in the regular season so that the Spurs can beat the likes of the Knicks and stay in the playoff hunt. :rolleyes

Spurs overrealiance on the Big 3 in the regular season and in the first 2 games of the postseason was a big factor in thier fatigue. Those 3 guys have to play at such a high level, even in the regular season we saw, for the SPurs to have a chance.

And Spurs think they'll actually be able to land Sasha Vuijic? :lol No way the Lakers are letting him go, especially after the series he just had against us.

[CaptainLate]

Holt needs to realize his chintziness led to a premature decline of this team's championship contention. Not saying he should have spent freely, but his hard cap has cost at a greater multiple than his savings.

No, they shouldn't have wasted yet another draft pick in trading for Kurt Thomas.

No, absolutely they shouldn't have traded Luis Scola, much less to a rival.

Yes, they should have played Bonner if they had him. At least he was youthful.

Four (4) failures at a repeat :lobt:. We give a pick for Thomas when the damn FO could have had a young Kyle Korver. Instead, he not only goes to a rival (see Scola comment above), but to a team that will be contending for at least the next five years.

Nice non-moves you cheap idiots!! :bang

[K-State Spur]

Holt needs to realize his chintziness led to a premature decline of this team's championship contention. Not saying he should have spent freely, but his hard cap has cost at a greater multiple than his savings.

Yes, they should have went for Cassell instead of Stoudamire. That was obvious.

Yes, they should have traded for Delonte West, if that was available.

No, they shouldn't have wasted yet another draft pick in trading for Kurt Thomas.

No, absolutely they shouldn't have traded Luis Scola, much less to a rival.

Yes, they should have drafted Tiago Splitter last year. That was a great pick at the time.

No, they shouldn't have resigned Bonner for more than minimum salary.

Yes, they should have played Bonner if they had him. At least he was youthful.

Draft coming up. Here's hoping they pull a rabbit or two out of the hat.

Couple thoughts:

I think that Cassell was always going to Boston. Probably felt like he could take crunch-time minutes away from Rondo. That would not have been the case here. Stoudamire was a gamble which cost us next to nothing.

While I would not have given up the pick for Thomas, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that the Spurs get by the Suns without him. He was much better on Shaq than Elson would have been, and our margin of error in that series was small enough that it might have made a difference.

Pretty much agree with everything else. But we're here now, no changing anything else, so the FO needs to push all regrets out of their mind and do what they need to from this point forward to put the team back on top.

[SenorSpur]

Believe it or not, I'm glad to hear Holt weigh in with an opinion. He has been very frugal and the Spurs FO has done a tremendous job of working within that financial model. I'm also glad to hear Holt speak up because perhaps it means he sees, and is willing to admit, what the rest of us have already known. This team is old, slow and unathletic. A point that causes Pop to bristle publicly. It didn't show up as much last year - but it's painfully evident now.

Hopefully, Holt will be more amenable to allowing Pop and R.C. spend a bit more than usual, provided the acquisitions make sense. I hope they rethink their philosophy of "pro-Euro only" draft picks. It's not a bad strategy and certainly one that's been successful, but it's not the only strategy that should be employed. There ARE players in THIS COUNTRY that can play too. How about looking at some of them too?

This franchise owes it to Tim and Manu, who both left money on the table in order for the team to remain title contenders for years to come. It would be a disservice to them, if they continue with their present philosophy of only acquiring AARP- eligible players.

[timothy bryce]

time to reload. Only players to keep are Manu, Duncan, and Parker.

[MannyIsGod]

Probably because you were averaging about 40 minutes there for a stretch in the regular season so that the Spurs can beat the likes of the Knicks and stay in the playoff hunt. :rolleyes

Spurs overrealiance on the Big 3 in the regular season and in the first 2 games of the postseason was a big factor in thier fatigue. Those 3 guys have to play at such a high level, even in the regular season we saw, for the SPurs to have a chance.

And Spurs think they'll actually be able to land Sasha Vuijic? :lol No way the Lakers are letting him go, especially after the series he just had against us.

If they drive up his price then at least they make the Lakers spend more money which is a good thing.

[SenorSpur]

Probably because you were averaging about 40 minutes there for a stretch in the regular season so that the Spurs can beat the likes of the Knicks and stay in the playoff hunt. :rolleyes

Spurs overrealiance on the Big 3 in the regular season and in the first 2 games of the postseason was a big factor in thier fatigue. Those 3 guys have to play at such a high level, even in the regular season we saw, for the SPurs to have a chance. .

Pop rode the Big Three the way Bum Phillips rode Earl Campbell - especially Manu. Obviously, the success of the team is tied to this trio, but this team played poorly and inconsistently when one or both were out in the lineup. There's nothing on the bench to offset the enormous workload of this trio.


And Spurs think they'll actually be able to land Sasha Vuijic? :lol No way the Lakers are letting him go, especially after the series he just had against us.

Screw Sasha. The Spurs would be better off going after Ronny Turiaf.

[Streakyshooter08]

As stated in another threat I think another scorer is the priority this summer. With Gino playing this summer he should get even more rest during the 08/09 regular season to be fresh in the playoffs. Tony and Tim can't carry the offensive load on their own, at least not without being exhausted come playoff time. It should be an explosive scorer who is able to create his own shot. It will not be easy to find a player for reasonable money who helps right away.

I think RC and Pop know that they need some changes to be successfull next year.

Lakers will be as good, if not better.
Hornets will (try to) improve.
Blazers might as well make a push for the playoffs.
Utah will be tough again.

It will be even harder next year. Barry and Udoka will stay because of their small contracts.

[LakerLanny]

Stoudamire really has lost his game quickly. It wasn't that long ago that he was a very dangerous player, now he looks like a shell of his former self.

Combination of too much weed + age

In my opinion, the Spurs need to figure out some way to get Corey Maggette. It will take a sign and trade, but maybe they can figure out some way to entice the Clippers to do that.

Other than that, I don't see a whole lot out there that will help in free agency, it is kind of a weak year in that regard.

[LakerLanny]

time to reload. Only players to keep are Manu, Duncan, and Parker.


They would be foolish to get rid of Barry and if Thomas signs cheap, he is a good guy to have on your team. Bowen is a very solid player in your system, I would certainly keep him.

I think Udoka is worth keeping around also.

Horry, Vaughn, Oberto, Bonner wold not be missed much.

[objective]

Ludden: Thomas also will be a free agent, but the Spurs want to re-sign him.

That's terrible.

Why re-sign a guy the Spurs couldn't even count on for minutes in the WCF who due to age and wear-related breakdowns will ONLY get worse next year?

A first round pick was wasted on him to go 2 rounds farther in the playoffs, but let it go. Don't compound the issue by then re-signing him. It won't make the trade any better. He was a rental, let it go.

[T Park]

That's terrible.

Why re-sign a guy the Spurs couldn't even count on for minutes in the WCF who due to age and wear-related breakdowns will ONLY get worse next year?

A first round pick was wasted on him to go 2 rounds farther in the playoffs, but let it go. Don't compound the issue by then re-signing him. It won't make the trade any better. He was a rental, let it go.

Uh he couldn't play in the WCF due to matchups, not age and breakdowns dumbass.

[K-State Spur]

Pop rode the Big Three the way Bum Phillips rode Earl Campbell - especially Manu.

I disagree with that. Really, Pop just played his stars about as much as other teams do.

The difference is that he is usually much more restrained during the regular season. OTOH, usually the Spurs have a much bigger cushion for playoff seeding.

[objective]

he couldn't match up because he's slowed due to age.

If he's re-signed, there's no time for Mahinmi. Pop won't sit Thomas and Oberto both, the temptation to quit on Mahinmi after one dumb foul with both Thomas and Oberto available will be too great.

[T Park]

he couldn't match up because he's slowed due to age.

If he's re-signed, there's no time for Mahinmi. Pop won't sit Thomas and Oberto both, the temptation to quit on Mahinmi after one dumb foul with both Thomas and Oberto available will be too great.


Uh no, because he was a center going against a long 4 who really is a 3.

If Bynum is healthy he plays Bynum, Duncan Gasol, and Ginobili on Odom.

So you'd get rid of your best post defender outside of Duncan just because he couldn't play much against a small ball lineup? :lol

[K-State Spur]

That's terrible.

Why re-sign a guy the Spurs couldn't even count on for minutes in the WCF who due to age and wear-related breakdowns will ONLY get worse next year?

A first round pick was wasted on him to go 2 rounds farther in the playoffs, but let it go. Don't compound the issue by then re-signing him. It won't make the trade any better. He was a rental, let it go.

Thomas isn't much less athletic (or fatigued) now than he was 10 years ago.

Most of his problems were the match-ups we faced + inexperience in the system.

He's not a good complement to Duncan, but he's not a bad substitute for him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think the 3 biggest blunder in the duncan era the FO fuckd up on was

1. lowballing stephen jacksons extention offer...fukn lame as
2. not drafting josh howard who was still on the board
3. trading barboza

the season jax left, we couldve repeated had we kept him instead of signin turgo...

[Streakyshooter08]

If Thomas stays for the minimum you have to keep him.

[K-State Spur]

he couldn't match up because he's slowed due to age.

If he's re-signed, there's no time for Mahinmi. Pop won't sit Thomas and Oberto both, the temptation to quit on Mahinmi after one dumb foul with both Thomas and Oberto available will be too great.

So, we're going to play the majority of next year with just 3 bigs?

[T Park]

i think the 3 biggest blunder in the duncan era the FO fuckd up on was

1. lowballing stephen jacksons extention offer...fukn lame as
2. not drafting josh howard who was still on the board
3. trading barboza

the season jax left, we couldve repeated had we kept him instead of signin turgo...


They didn't sign Turkoglu they traded for him.

They never wanted Barbosa, the Suns wanted him the whole time. Plus hes a choking non factor in the playoffs, he would be worthless.

Josh Howard while good has also appeared to be a choking cancerous ball hog.

Keep the genius takes coming :rolleyes

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

3. trading barboza




Not this shit again.

[K-State Spur]

i think the 3 biggest blunder in the duncan era the FO fuckd up on was

1. lowballing stephen jacksons extention offer...fukn lame as


This has been discussed to ad nauseum, but I'll re-iterate two points:

a) it's not a lowball offer when it's the biggest one on the market, by a good margin.

b) sign Jax for what he wants, and you likely lose Manu to Denver 2 years later.

[T Park]

So, we're going to play the majority of next year with just 3 bigs?

Ignore him.

Mahinmi will get time.

Thomas will only play against certain matchups, but is good to have in there when Duncan is on the bench. An offseason of rest, but a full training camp and season with em will improve his role in the offense.

[T Park]

This has been discussed to ad nauseum, but I'll re-iterate two points:

a) it's not a lowball offer when it's the biggest one on the market, by a good margin.

b) sign Jax for what he wants, and you likely lose Manu to Denver 2 years later.


The problem is hindsight. AT THE TIME, Stephen Jackson had 1 good playoff run, he was still an unknown, if you give him a big contract will he slack and not perform? They didn't know. THey offered a fair 3 year 12 million dollar deal. He wanted 5 and whatever else. Turkoglu would've been a good replacement had he had a set of juevos, and thats how that whole scenario wound up going bad.
No sense living in the past.

[objective]

So the Spurs need to get younger and faster and the solution is to re-sign a guy who will be 36 next season?

Kurt Thomas isn't the answer, he'd just be another old guy on an old team, with no room for Ian Mahinmi or Splitter if Splitter changes his mind on an extension.

Kurt Thomas will be worse next year. His jumper, not as reliable as people think already, will get worse. His speed will get worse.

Let him go.

[PDXSpursFan]

Sasha Vujacic impressed Spurs officials throughout the series.

I would welcome Sasha. Manu could be moved moved permanently into the starting lineup, with Sasha as backup. During the regular season they could split minutes close to 50%-50% (keeping Manu fresh for the playoffs).

[Holt's Cat]

No, they shouldn't have resigned Bonner for more than minimum salary.

Yes, they should have played Bonner if they had him. At least he was youthful.



:lol Bonner's contract doesn't hurt the Spurs at all.

[T Park]

So the Spurs need to get younger and faster and the solution is to re-sign a guy who will be 36 next season?

Kurt Thomas isn't the answer, he'd just be another old guy on an old team, with no room for Ian Mahinmi or Splitter if Splitter changes his mind on an extension.

Kurt Thomas will be worse next year. His jumper, not as reliable as people think already, will get worse. His speed will get worse.

Let him go.

What speed?

He never had speed. Thats like people saying Duncan is "slowing down" He never was quick to begin with.
Once again, your not gonna find a big on the open market as good as Kurt Thomas. Hes coming back so deal with it.

[MoSpur]

To me letting go of S Jax was a bad thing. He showed in that playoff series what he was made of. Jackson > Finley. Its hindsight as stated above so no need to dwell on it. The Spurs need to be very creative this off-season. Horry and Finley need to go 4 sure. No questions about it. I don't care too much about basketball IQ when they can't hit a shot. Pop talks too much about Horry's bball IQ, but the dude never played so what good is his IQ???

Why not let Ian learn on the fly?

[T Park]

I would welcome Sasha. Manu could be moved moved permanently into the starting lineup, with Sasha as backup. During the regular season they could split minutes close to 50%-50% (keeping Manu fresh for the playoffs).

Sasha would come off the bench as the permanent backup point guard.

Its all moot though case he isn't coming, LA will resign him.

[T Park]

To me letting go of S Jax was a bad thing. He showed in that playoff series what he was made of. Jackson > Finley. Its hindsight as stated above so no need to dwell on it. The Spurs need to be very creative this off-season. Horry and Finley need to go 4 sure. No questions about it. I don't care too much about basketball IQ when they can't hit a shot. Pop talks too much about Horry's bball IQ, but the dude never played so what good is his IQ???

Why not let Ian learn on the fly?


Yeah that BBall IQ never came in handy vs the Suns or the Hornets.

Great take :tu

[T Park]

:lol Bonner's contract doesn't hurt the Spurs at all.


He hasn't understood it for 10 months, I doubt the blockhead is gonna understand it now.

[K-State Spur]

So the Spurs need to get younger and faster and the solution is to re-sign a guy who will be 36 next season?

Kurt Thomas isn't the answer, he'd just be another old guy on an old team, with no room for Ian Mahinmi or Splitter if Splitter changes his mind on an extension.

Kurt Thomas will be worse next year. His jumper, not as reliable as people think already, will get worse. His speed will get worse.

Let him go.

If Thomas' value was in his jumper or in his speed, he'd have been out of the league 12 years ago.

He's a bruiser. Outside of Duncan (who you'd like to keep out of foul trouble), the Spurs have - let me think - ZERO other guys who could fit that role next year. That's true even if Mahinmi/Splitter join the club.

Nobody is saying re-sign Thomas for 8 mil/year. But for somewhere near the minimum, he fills a role.

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs shouldn't waste much time on Vujacic. The only way they would be able to land him is by putting together some long-term full MLE offer that the Lakers feel is too much. Plus you know that would tie up precious time during free agency.

[T Park]

If Thomas' value was in his jumper or in his speed, he'd have been out of the league 12 years ago.

He's a bruiser. Outside of Duncan (who you'd like to keep out of foul trouble), the Spurs have - let me think - ZERO other guys who could fit that role next year. That's true even if Mahinmi/Splitter join the club.

Nobody is saying re-sign Thomas for 8 mil/year. But for somewhere near the minimum, he fills a role.

Even at a million or 2 or 3 hes still very damn valuable.

Thomas was not even close to being part of the problem.

Hell look at the small amount of time he got last night and dude puts up 11 and 7.

Yeah hes washed up :rolleyes

[T Park]

The Spurs shouldn't waste much time on Vujacic. The only way they would be able to land him is by putting together some long-term full MLE offer that the Lakers feel is too much. Plus you know that would tie up precious time during free agency.

Agreed. Take the same attitude with him, as they did when Kobe Bryant was a FA in 05 I think.

[Holt's Cat]

If Thomas' value was in his jumper or in his speed, he'd have been out of the league 12 years ago.

He's a bruiser. Outside of Duncan (who you'd like to keep out of foul trouble), the Spurs have - let me think - ZERO other guys who could fit that role next year. That's true even if Mahinmi/Splitter join the club.

Nobody is saying re-sign Thomas for 8 mil/year. But for somewhere near the minimum, he fills a role.

You need to keep Thomas. He's a very solid rebounding big, a smart player, and Shaq is still in the conference. Something like 2 years, $8 mil would be sensible for him.

[K-State Spur]

To me letting go of S Jax was a bad thing. He showed in that playoff series what he was made of. Jackson > Finley. Its hindsight as stated above so no need to dwell on it. The Spurs need to be very creative this off-season. Horry and Finley need to go 4 sure. No questions about it. I don't care too much about basketball IQ when they can't hit a shot. Pop talks too much about Horry's bball IQ, but the dude never played so what good is his IQ???

Why not let Ian learn on the fly?

There's a 2 year gap in between Jax & Finley - so it wasn't an either/or between those two.

It's a more a case of either Jax or Manu.

[T Park]

There's a 2 year gap in between Jax & Finley - so it wasn't an either/or between those two.

It's a more a case of either Jax or Manu.

Tough choice, but I think I'm ok with the choice made. :rolleyes

[T Park]

You need to keep Thomas. He's a very solid rebounding big, a smart player, and Shaq is still in the conference. Something like 2 years, $8 mil would be sensible for him.

Exactly. Kurt Thomas is a must for this team and he doesn't hurt them one iota by being there.

I'm very interested to see how he would play next year after being with the team through a full training camp.

[TDMVPDPOY]

isnt matt bonner on 3m a season?

[Spur-Addict]

This franchise owes it to Tim and Manu, who both left money on the table in order for the team to remain title contenders for years to come. It would be a disservice to them, if they continue with their present philosophy of only acquiring AARP- eligible players.

Well said...

:wakeup

[Twisted_Dawg]

QUOTE: "One of the reasons the Spurs said they traded Scola was that Splitter would be a better fit alongside Duncan. Popovich, however, simmered over the Scola deal throughout the season because it violated one of his long-held edicts: Never help a rival."

Hmmm.....really. Then why did Pop help strengthen TWO rivals in the summer of 2003? Both Josh Howard & Barbosa were available to draft and Pop arranged a deal with Phoenix to draft Barbosa and then trade him. Dallas drafted Howard with the next pick. So we strengthened two conference rivals with one transaction.

Pop didn't want to draft a player in the first round in 2003 as that would have required extending a guaranteed contract and eating up cap space Pop had reserved for his foolish chase of Jason Kidd.

[T Park]

QUOTE: "One of the reasons the Spurs said they traded Scola was that Splitter would be a better fit alongside Duncan. Popovich, however, simmered over the Scola deal throughout the season because it violated one of his long-held edicts: Never help a rival."

Hmmm.....really. Then why did Pop help strengthen TWO rivals in the summer of 2003? Both Josh Howard & Barbosa were available to draft and Pop arranged a deal with Phoenix to draft Barbosa and then trade him. Dallas drafted Howard with the next pick. So we strengthened two conference rivals with one transaction.

Pop didn't want to draft a player in the first round in 2003 as that would have required extending a guaranteed contract and eating up cap space Pop had reserved for his foolish chase of Jason Kidd.

Wrong again.


Pop and Duncan wanted Josh Howard. RC Buford wanted Jason Kidd.

[T Park]

isnt matt bonner on 3m a season?

Whats your point?

[Twisted_Dawg]

Don't blame the Spurs for the Steven Jackson experience. We offered him a good contract of $10 million over three years. Jackson delayed and drug his feet which caused us to lose Speedy Claxton.

Oh by the way, when Jackson turned us down and went shopping....all he found was a $1million a year contract with Atlanta. For a time he was the contract laughing stock of the league. Eventually replaced by Sprewell.

[T Park]

The Spurs lost Speedy Claxton cause he wanted a good sized contract and to start.

Neither one they were willing to give, and I'm thankfull they didn't.

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs might make a run at Delfino. Shit, Delfino for some part of the MLE and Herrmann for the LLE.

[T Park]

I could think of worse players off the bench than Delfino.

Delfino, Herrmann, Ginobili, Oberto? :lmao

You could have that lineup on the court at one time.

You know that would be some kick ass chemistry.

[ElNono]

I think we need an energy guy more than anything. Manu has been doing that all year, and is obviously spent by the time the playoffs come around. Delfino could be it, if he's let loose. The thing is, Pop would rather play an old washed up vet (JV) instead of a scorer (Stoudemire) simply because the vet can play defense and the other one can't.

[T Park]

I think we need an energy guy more than anything. Manu has been doing that all year, and is obviously spent by the time the playoffs come around. Delfino could be it, if he's let loose. The thing is, Pop would rather play an old washed up vet (JV) instead of a scorer (Stoudemire) simply because the vet can play defense and the other one can't.


:lmao Both were washed up vets.

Fail.

[ElNono]

:lmao Both were washed up vets.

Fail.

Sure. I'm not saying Stoudemire was the saviour. But Pop actually went to court the guy mid-season because Tony went down and we couldn't score to save our lives. What's the point if you're not going to play him? He played what, 15 games as a Spur?

[MoSpur]

Yeah that BBall IQ never came in handy vs the Suns or the Hornets.

Great take :tu


:rolleyes

Please give me Horry's wonderful stats and tell how much he came in handy this post season. We all waited for the big shot and it never came. Horry had one of his worse post seasons. T-Park, all you do in here is criticize everyone's take. Your takes aren't all that and are just a repeat of Kori's or timvps. Please.

[T Park]

:rolleyes

Please give me Horry's wonderful stats and tell how much he came in handy this post season. We all waited for the big shot and it never came. Horry had one of his worse post seasons. T-Park, all you do in here is criticize everyone's take. Your takes aren't all that and are just a repeat of Kori's or timvps. Please.


Yeah because Kori's take that Horry is gone is what I'm saying :rolleyes

The big shot never came?

Uh, did you watch game 7 vs the Hornets?!?!

HELLO!!!!!

[Twisted_Dawg]

Wrong again.


Pop and Duncan wanted Josh Howard. RC Buford wanted Jason Kidd.

T Park,
I respectfully disagree with you. And I know there are two camps in this town about that.

But back in 2003, Pop had all the power. He had just coached a team to his second title. And he was still the GM back then. Now don't you think, had he wanted Howard, we would have drafted Howard? A writer for the Express News told me that everbody in the front office was for drafting Howard, except one lone hold out. He wouldn't tell me who, but I could tell it was Pop. When Parker questioned the siging of Kidd, Pop went bersek in the local media on Parker for quesitoning the move. When Kidd spurned us, who went to Indiana to try to get O'neal to sign and then to Slovenia to get Rasho? Pop that is who.

So unless you have some proof to the contrary, I will always believe it was Pop who vetoed the drafting of Howard.

I will agree the Scola fiasco was all on Buford and Lindsey.

[MoSpur]

ElNono, don't waste your time trying to convince the SpursTalk hall monitor (TPark) about your take because in his eyes they aren't good.

[T Park]

Sure. I'm not saying Stoudemire was the saviour. But Pop actually went to court the guy mid-season because Tony went down and we couldn't score to save our lives. What's the point if you're not going to play him? He played what, 15 games as a Spur?


He did his job by filling in while Parker was out.

He lost his job when he played horrible after Parker got back.

Simple as that.

[Twisted_Dawg]

The Spurs lost Speedy Claxton cause he wanted a good sized contract and to start.

Neither one they were willing to give, and I'm thankfull they didn't.

I recall Pop was very irriatated with Jackson and his agent, and clearly said their delay had a factor in us losing Claxton.

[T Park]

T Park,
I respectfully disagree with you. And I know there are two camps in this town about that.

But back in 2003, Pop had all the power. He had just coached a team to his second title. And he was still the GM back then. Now don't you think, had he wanted Howard, we would have drafted Howard? A writer for the Express News told me that everbody in the front office was for drafting Howard, except one lone hold out. He wouldn't tell me who, but I could tell it was Pop. When Parker questioned the siging of Kidd, Pop went bersek in the local media on Parker for quesitoning the move. When Kidd spurned us, who went to Indiana to try to get O'neal to sign and then to Slovenia to get Rasho? Pop that is who.

So unless you have some proof to the contrary, I will always believe it was Pop who vetoed the drafting of Howard.

I will agree the Scola fiasco was all on Buford and Lindsey.

It was Buford.

Its been mentioned a billion times on this forum that its been RC Buford.

Search Josh Howard threads on this forum and see what the top posters said about that deal.

Pop Duncan wanted Howard. RC wanted Kidd.

RC convinced them all to go with Kidd. Thats the truth.

[T Park]

ElNono, don't waste your time trying to convince the SpursTalk hall monitor (TPark) about your take because in his eyes they aren't good.


No Stoudamire and Vaughn aren't good I agree.

[MoSpur]

Bringing Horry back would be a huge mistake. The guy needs to retire. Its time to get younger. Not saying all vets need to be cut loose, but its obvious Finley and Horry need to go. If Bonner is not going to get playing time, the Spurs need to find a way to trade him. His contract isn't bad nor good, but I think the Spurs can package him to get someone decent in return.

[T Park]

I recall Pop was very irriatated with Jackson and his agent, and clearly said their delay had a factor in us losing Claxton.

They were never signing Claxton due to him wanting to Start.

Go back and read the articles again.

Pop can deflect that all he wants due to his hate for the agent, THATS true. It had no effect on Claxton though due to him wanting to start. He signed with Golden State, started for a year, then they backstabbed him and went with Derek Fisher.

[T Park]

Bringing Horry back would be a huge mistake. The guy needs to retire. Its time to get younger. Not saying all vets need to be cut loose, but its obvious Finley and Horry need to go. If Bonner is not going to get playing time, the Spurs need to find a way to trade him. His contract isn't bad nor good, but I think the Spurs can package him to get someone decent in return.


Horry would be fine as the 11th or 12th man.

[Twisted_Dawg]

The problem is hindsight. AT THE TIME, Stephen Jackson had 1 good playoff run, he was still an unknown, if you give him a big contract will he slack and not perform? They didn't know. THey offered a fair 3 year 12 million dollar deal. He wanted 5 and whatever else. Turkoglu would've been a good replacement had he had a set of juevos, and thats how that whole scenario wound up going bad.
No sense living in the past.

Very accurate report.

[MoSpur]

The Spurs did a great job this season with who they rolled with. However, the teams they're going to compete with in the West are younger and more athletic. Such as Portland, L.A, Golden State, Denver even.

IMO, get younger in a few spots and they'll be right up there again.

[T Park]

Very accurate report.

Yeah at the time when Jackson left it was thought, is this a mistake?

I thought it was (although I'm sure at the time I said otherwise) but like I said, everyone that gnashes their teeth over it is just wasting energy.

[MoSpur]

Horry as a 11th or 12th might take away an opportunity for someone young to develop though. The Spurs have nine players under contract for next season. That only leaves a few spots open. I don't want them to waste those spots on someone like Horry. The guy is on the decline. Obviously. I like what he did for us, but this post season was not good for him. He was rested. He hardly played in the regular season because of injury. Why waste a spot and $$$ on someone like that?

[picnroll]

Ludden still knows far, far more about what's going on with the Spurs than any of their beat writers, or at least will say more. McDonald is a waste.

[T Park]

Ludden still knows far, far more about what's going on with the Spurs than any of their beat writers, or at least will say more. McDonald is a waste.

Yes, because McDonald has had soooo many more years in a relationship with the team than Ludden......

[jag]

Best possible scenario would have been for Splitter to sign...now it kind of throws everything outa wack.

Vujacic would be the perfect remedy for regulating manu's RS minutes..not to mention, he's the exact spark off the bench that we need.

Matt Barnes IMO is the best option at the 3. He's a long guy that can shoot and play D.

All i know is that Mahinmi better impress Pop at the beginning of the season or he's gonna end up seeing benoesque PT.

[picnroll]

Damn, T Park in full Spurs kiss ass mode. Did he have to sign some kind of agreement to suck Spurs' dick to get back on the band wagon for jumping off in '05? McDonald sucks. A whole year of drivel.

[Mr. Body]

Damn, T Park in full Spurs kiss ass mode. Did he have to sign some kind of agreement to get back on the band wagon for jumping off in '05? McDonald sucks. A whole year of drivel.

T Park is the most randomly useless poster on these boards.

[T Park]

T Park is the most randomly useless poster on these boards.

Look in the mirror for that title kiddo.

[T Park]

Damn, T Park in full Spurs kiss ass mode. Did he have to sign some kind of agreement to suck Spurs' dick to get back on the band wagon for jumping off in '05? McDonald sucks. A whole year of drivel.


He may stink, but your bashing on the fact he doesn't bring inside info.

Realisticly, Ludden was here for alot of years, as compared to McDonald. Don't you have to build those relationships up?

[T Park]

Best possible scenario would have been for Splitter to sign...now it kind of throws everything outa wack.

Vujacic would be the perfect remedy for regulating manu's RS minutes..not to mention, he's the exact spark off the bench that we need.

Matt Barnes IMO is the best option at the 3. He's a long guy that can shoot and play D.

All i know is that Mahinmi better impress Pop at the beginning of the season or he's gonna end up seeing benoesque PT.

Eh, take a Stephen Jackson Ginobili approach with in ala 03.
Just live with the mistakes.

[A.H 21-50]

Couple thoughts:

I think that Cassell was always going to Boston. Probably felt like he could take crunch-time minutes away from Rondo. That would not have been the case here. Stoudamire was a gamble which cost us next to nothing.

While I would not have given up the pick for Thomas, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that the Spurs get by the Suns without him. He was much better on Shaq than Elson would have been, and our margin of error in that series was small enough that it might have made a difference.

Pretty much agree with everything else. But we're here now, no changing anything else, so the FO needs to push all regrets out of their mind and do what they need to from this point forward to put the team back on top.

to give a pick to pass only a round against the suns(thomas was useless against No and LA) .... i think it was a mistake

Agree with Mr Body analyse and i hope the fo will make a good offseason and some adjustments for next year

[T Park]

to give a pick to pass only a round against the suns(thomas was useless against No and LA) .... i think it was a mistake

Agree with Mr Body analyse and i hope the fo will make a good offseason and some adjustments for next year

So you would rather lose in the first round?

[jag]

Eh, take a Stephen Jackson Ginobili approach with in ala 03.
Just live with the mistakes.

eh...i'm not worried about it, i think the Spurs will be just fine without him (it also helps that he's not on an opposing team :bang).

Vujacic (unlikely) and Barnes are the two i'd really like to see...I honestly think a lot of people on here underestimate how good matt barnes would be in our system, the guy can flat out play.

Obviously at the Three: Artest if possible but i doubt it, Barnes is much more likely.

Does anyone know how much money we actually have to play with?

[A.H 21-50]

So you would rather lose in the first round?

The Spurs could'nt have won without Thomas ???

[Mr. Body]

Look in the mirror for that title kiddo.

I admit to being randomly useless, sugarpuff, but cannot hope to match your aggression and sheer talent for it.

[Texas_Ranger]

why dont the euros like sasha....


Cause he's a bitch!!! Nothing more to say about this piece of shit!

Beaner >>>>>>>> Vujabitch.

[T Park]

The Spurs could'nt have won without Thomas ???

Without Thomas, Shaq dominates like no one's business.

[T Park]

I admit to being randomly useless, sugarpuff, but cannot hope to match your aggression and sheer talent for it.


:lol

[A.H 21-50]

Without Thomas, Shaq dominates like no one's business.

maybe but wasn't too much to give a first round pick for a veteran

Imo the spurs could have used picks to have younger players but it's easy to say that
now the deal is done so we will see what happens next

[T Park]

maybe but wasn't too much to give a first round pick for a veteran

Imo the spurs could have used picks to have younger players but it's easy to say that
now the deal is done so we will see what happens next

A first round pick for a good center like Kurt Thomas is a small price.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Vujacic? I hope this is CIA in full effect.

If not, I hate our front office. There are way better prospects on the market than that Euro scrub (i.e., Kelenna). Front office needs to take off its foreign player blinders for once.

Vujacic can't even put up consistent double figures for LA, but we're going to start him ahead of Manu? Gimme a break...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The problem is hindsight. AT THE TIME, Stephen Jackson had 1 good playoff run, he was still an unknown, if you give him a big contract will he slack and not perform? They didn't know. THey offered a fair 3 year 12 million dollar deal. He wanted 5 and whatever else. Turkoglu would've been a good replacement had he had a set of juevos, and thats how that whole scenario wound up going bad.
No sense living in the past.

Typical Tpark. Everyone knew Jax would be a stud, and he'd still be a Spur if Holt hadn't been cheap about it.

[ducks]

pop wants la to sign him to a huge deal
he does not want la to get better

[T Park]

Typical Tpark. Everyone knew Jax would be a stud, and he'd still be a Spur if Holt hadn't been cheap about it.


Hindsight is 2020.

I wanted him to stay though, convenient of you to leave that out.

[CosmicCowboy]

I say we rest Duncan, Parker, Manu all of 2008/2009, tank the season, and draw the #1 ping pong ball again.

[jag]

Vujacic? I hope this is CIA in full effect.

If not, I hate our front office. There are way better prospects on the market than that Euro scrub (i.e., Kelenna). Front office needs to take off its foreign player blinders for once.

Vujacic can't even put up consistent double figures for LA, but we're going to start him ahead of Manu? Gimme a break...

Michael Finley.


Azubuike can play, he's a good shooter and i remember him from Kentucky...but what kind of D does he play? You have no idea cause they don't play D in GS.

With Vujacic, you're talking about a guy who plays behind one of (if not the best) players in the world, and still got 25 mpg.

Vujacic - 6'7" - 44% from 3 > Azubuike - 6'5" - 38% from 3

[T Park]

Azubuike is a damn damn good defender.

Vujacic, I'm honestly still not sold on him.

[K-State Spur]

Typical Tpark. Everyone knew Jax would be a stud, and he'd still be a Spur if Holt hadn't been cheap about it.

but then would manu?

[SenorSpur]

Vujacic? I hope this is CIA in full effect.

If not, I hate our front office. There are way better prospects on the market than that Euro scrub (i.e., Kelenna). Front office needs to take off its foreign player blinders for once.
Vujacic can't even put up consistent double figures for LA, but we're going to start him ahead of Manu? Gimme a break...

Finally! Somebody says it besides me. This FO has an annual hard-on for foreign players. When is the last time they drafted and developed a domestic player? They sometimes act as though American college players can't play or can't be coached.

Like every other strategy they employ, there is proven success there. My issues with Pop and R.C. is they put all their eggs into a single basket. Look at this potential fiasco with Splitter and previously Scola. They marry themselves to a formula (signing vets over the age of 34, or burning 1st round picks on primarily drafting Euro talent)and sometimes cannot see past it.

[MoSpur]

Can someone tell me if Ryan Gomes is available and if so, his chances of leaving Minny?

[T Park]

Finally! Somebody says it besides me. This FO has an annual hard-on for foreign players. When is the last time they drafted and developed a domestic player? They sometimes act as though American college players can't play or can't be coached.

Like every other strategy they employ, there is proven success there. My issues with Pop and R.C. is they put all their eggs into a single basket. Look at this potential fiasco with Splitter and previously Scola. They marry themselves to a formula (signing vets over the age of 34, or burning 1st round picks on primarily drafting Euro talent)and sometimes cannot see past it.

??

Alot of people have said they need to draft and focus more domestically...

[ElNono]

Finally! Somebody says it besides me. This FO has an annual hard-on for foreign players. When is the last time they drafted and developed a domestic player? They sometimes act as though American college players can't play or can't be coached.

Like every other strategy they employ, there is proven success there. My issues with Pop and R.C. is they put all their eggs into a single basket. Look at this potential fiasco with Splitter and previously Scola. They marry themselves to a formula (signing vets over the age of 34, or burning 1st round picks on primarily drafting Euro talent)and sometimes cannot see past it.

They might go for the local talent once TD retires and we need to rebuild.
Right now, if they take a rookie and develop him and he turns out to be any good, they can't offer him a competitive contract after his rookie contract is over (considering they don't ever go over the luxury tax). The only reason they go for the Euros is that they're somewhat already developed.
If you expect Pop at this stage to take a youngster and do anything other than sit him at the end of the bench or send him back and forth between the Toros and the injured list, you're fooling yourself.

[SenorSpur]

They might go for the local talent once TD retires and we need to rebuild.
Right now, if they take a rookie and develop him and he turns out to be any good, they can't offer him a competitive contract after his rookie contract is over (considering they don't ever go over the luxury tax). The only reason they go for the Euros is that they're somewhat already developed.
If you expect Pop at this stage to take a youngster and do anything other than sit him at the end of the bench or send him back and forth between the Toros and the injured list, you're fooling yourself.

I'm not suggesting they take some 18 year-old kid out of high school. There are numerous college juniors and seniors that have the proper talent, maturity and initiative needed to fit into the Spurs system. For them or anyone else to think otherwise is a shortsighted approach.

The recent fiascos with both Splitter and Scola alone should make them rethink this strategy. And staffing a roster full of 34+ year old veterans isn't the way to go either.

[ElNono]

I'm not suggesting they take some 18 year-old kid out of high school. There are numerous college juniors and seniors that have the proper talent, maturity and initiative needed to fit into the Spurs system. For them or anyone else to think otherwise is a shortsighted approach.

The recent fiascos with both Splitter and Scola alone should make them rethink this strategy. And staffing a roster full of 34+ year old veterans isn't the way to go either.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But looking at previous seasons and what this FO have been doing and saying for the last few years makes me think they're going to stick to what they've been doing. What you mention is a drastic change from what this FO has done the last 5 or 6 years. I think you're only going to see that if we don't make the playoffs somehow in the next few seasons.

[MadDog73]

Um... didn't we just get beat by a team that was a bunch of "foreign players?"

Hell, even Kobe grew up in Europe. Get a grip!

[T Park]

Um... didn't we just get beat by a team that was a bunch of "foreign players?"

Hell, even Kobe grew up in Europe. Get a grip!

Odom, Fisher, Bryant, Farmar, Walton, I don't think are foreign

[intlspurshk]

Tiago is gone,....forget it.

SPURS need to fill the hole for mobile big so that TD has less loads to carry.

Sign Diop or Turiaf....

Then trade/draft for a SG with good 3pt shot.

Sasha...? come on..... Pop must be trying to fool Lakers to try to sign Turiaf

Alternatively, sign the best Europe player playing for the Russian team....he is a wild card

[CaptainLate]

Josh Howard while good has also appeared to be a choking cancerous ball hog....Keep the genius takes coming :rolleyes

TPark ASSumes he'd be the same in a different environment. But Howard on a veteran laden title-holding team, like Stephen Jackson was, would have been a great fit. No doubt the FO screwed up on that one big time.

[Spurs Brazil]

Ludden always a step ahed of McDonald/Monroe

Too bad he can't follow the Spurs in the offseason. We'll get no updates with McDonald/Monroe

[El_Mago]

I tried to make this as realistic as possible. The guys who I mentioned that are restricted could possibly be nabbed from their teams if enough money is thrown at them...especially if they offer is loaded in the first year.

Half the MLE between any combination of or could sign them with the LLE:
Diop
Pietrus
C.J. Miles - Restricted
Quinton Ross
Royal Ivey
Keyon Dooling
Dorell Wright

Worth Majority of Full MLE:
Jamairo Moon
Kelenna Azubuike - Restricted
J.R. Smith - Restricted
Devin Brown
Josh Childress - Restricted

Internationals:
Dimitris Diamantidis; 28 Yrs old; PG; Greece
Ramunas Siskauskas; 29 Yrs old; SG; Lithuania (Terrific Shooter)

[Mr. Body]

Good list. I don't think Jamario Moon is available; has one more year (very cheap tho'). Siskauskas makes more than the MLE and would expect that, which is pretty rich.

I like Diop. Go after him, but his services may get bid up.

Many of the others are extremely underwhelming (or unavailable). What a year to need players.

[K-State Spur]

We absolutely need wing help, but I would like to see us avoid chuckers who are not likely to change their ways.

So, no matter how many unbelievable shots he hits, I would be against JR Smith. I think he could have a negative impact.