Celtics and Lakers Fixed?

[Spurs da champs]

Did anybody else feel that the whole playoffs were fixed for the celtics and the lakers? I mean they got away with a lot of stuff.
No free throws for berry and there were a lot of bad calls in both series favouring LA and Boston.

[MrChug]

I GUARANTEED it after putting 2 and 2 together. (actually 3 and 3) The NBA needed a PHX/BOS/LAL mix somehow with the ultimate being this Finals, so they approved 3 absurd trades to allow the "Super-Teams". Makes me sick.

[Lakers_55]

David Stern is actually an Alien. His race was seen in the X-Files, the ones with the black oil. He is president. Sam Cassell is the general of the Alien army. Shaq is really Kazaam, an evil genie from the planet Mongo. The idea is to get the ratings as high as they can, and get every TV in the world tuned in. Then electronic signals will infect everyone who watches with the black oil, and we will be enslaved to the aliens until we all perish. Our only hope for survival is for Michael Jordan and his "Space Jam" team to come back to earth and rescue us all while the clock is ticking down and we need a few three-pointers and steals to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

[dg7md]

Yeah, the NBA is so fixed that it let small-market San Antonio have 4 championships. The people that cry foul about conspiracy theories in the NBA have no idea what a real conspiracy about team preference would be like. Every single playoff series would go 6-7 games, no California teams would be left out of the mix and by no means would the Spurs be considered an NBA elite team, not to mention other things that debunk the conspiracy theory about the NBA. Also, the Pistons would not have annihilated the Lakers in 2004 in the fashion that they did if the league were fixed.

We lost to a superior team because they exploited our flaws, same with the Pistons/Celtics series; get over it, people. Lakers are a great team and the Celtics finally learned how to win on the road, thus leading them to the Finals. The trade was not FIXED either, the Grizzlies just wanted to dump Gasol for cap space and draft picks.

[nashzilla]

Yeah, the NBA is so fixed that it let small-market San Antonio have 4 championships. The people that cry foul about conspiracy theories in the NBA have no idea what a real conspiracy about team-preference would be like. Every single playoff series would go 6-7 games, no California teams would be left out of the mix and by no means would the Spurs be considered an NBA elite team, and not to mention the Pistons would not have annihilated the Lakers in 2004.

We lost to a superior team because they exploited our flaws, same with the Pistons/Celtics series; get over it, people.

:toast

[Spurs da champs]

The point is it's LA and Boston in the playoffs which has not been seen in the finals for a long time and everybody knows how popular that was seeing as it was one of the greatest rivalrys and the money/business factor that would be acheived if they were in the finals.

[resistanze]

Bottom line is both the Spurs and Pistons didn't deserve to make it. The Spurs showed enough guts being able to get past in Hornets in 7 games, and I didn't expect much more. The Pistons probably will need to make some changes in the offseason as I think their current team has reached its ceiling.

[nashzilla]

The point is it's LA and Boston in the playoffs which has not been seen in the finals for a long time and everybody knows how popular that was seeing as it was one of the greatest rivalrys and the money/business factor that would be acheived if they were in the finals.


you can not deny the fact that the lakers whooped the dog shit out of the spurs. i know alot of you spurs fans think your team could not and should not be beaten by anyone and the trophy should just be rushed to the spurs on a platinum platter. truth is the lake show was just the better team this year. some breaks didn't go your way like they have in the past and it hurts your heart to see your team go down in that fashion doesnt it? you can think the spurs were the better team (like i did about the suns last year) and you can bitch about the injustices (like i have) about your team getting fucked. it won't change shit. get over it and look forward to next year.:whine

[Avitus1]

The team did get beat Manu hurt didn't help us much. We got beat in clearly 3 games easy. It might of been different had Crawford called the foul he should of called but it didn't happen so we'll never know. However I think a lot of calls or non calls were made in the favor of both Boston and the Lakers...

XKsS-3j9sfg
KG got away with out a suspension or fine.

bWiw60NusOY
The league acknowledged a foul on Brent Barry to little to late.

Maybe its not so much a conspiracy but the league in desperate need of refs that can do better jobs. Though clearly Stern should have done something to KG and had he been wearing a Suns uniform and came off the bench perhaps he would of...

-0qe7PGCQvI

[dav4463]

It's not that it's fixed, but the Celtics and Lakers get the benefit of most calls and the teams are allowed to somehow end up with big-time players that no other team can afford to get.

Why couldn't the Hawks get Garnett? Why couldn't the Grizzlies keep Gasol?

Letting the Celtics and Lakers have the players gives them a better chance to win a title.

Spurs and Pistons just beat the odds.

[v2freak]

For the people arguing that the Spurs have won 4 championships and there could not be a conspiracy as a result, I ask:

Who is arguing that there was a conspiracy in these years?

Yes, things do happen overnight, much to the disbelief of many. Never in those years did we see two incredibly one-sided trades in two incredibly large markets go down. And the media is eating it all up. Everyone knows that from a business standpoint, the NBA would want big markets to dominate - this means more revenue and more ratings. I'm not justifying it, I'm just trying playing devil's advocate. I don't know if I buy into the conspiracy theory yet, but I'm not gonna wipe it off the table. I want to salute all of the people who crave adopting a Spurs-like attitude: no excuses, just shut up and play and concede when you're done. You see that a lot with the posters here when it comes to officiating. But it's foolish to dismiss what is put in front of you.

[BlackSwordsMan]

spurs lost cause manu played like shit and no one stepped up to help with scoring

[Allanon]

Who, what and if, that comes to so much in a basketball game.... it's a terrible game to play.

If you look at that Barry play, he travels before Fish bumps him, so it's a travel before the foul. Then Fish's shot hit the rim so the Lakers should have had a full 24 second clock and the Spurs would have had to foul the Lakers instead of a desperation shot.

As for conspiracy theorists, if the NBA was rigged, they never would have "let" the Spurs win 4 titles. They would never have "let" the Celtics go 20 years without being in the Finals. They would not have "let" the Lakers get put out in 3 straight years. They would not "let" the boring Pistons beat the Lakers Dream team (Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Peyton). That's just crazy talk.

As for crazy trades, you guys forgot that the NBA rigged Kwame Brown to the Lakers for Caron Butler. Wasn't THAT a lop-sided trade? The Wizards stole the Lakers lunch money, but nobody complained because it was the Lakers getting ripped off.

But when the Lakers rip somebody off, it's a conspiracy.

[KobeOwnsBowen]

Nope. They were the best teams. Boston proved that in the Regular Season and LA got a second big time player in Gasol.

[mavs>spurs2]

I don't know about fixed, but I think it's boring as shit.

[KobeOwnsBowen]

I don't know about fixed, but I think it's boring as shit.
How was your fishing trip?

[v2freak]

Who, what and if, that comes to so much in a basketball game.... it's a terrible game to play.

If you look at that Barry play, he travels before Fish bumps him, so it's a travel before the foul. Then Fish's shot hit the rim so the Lakers should have had a full 24 second clock and the Spurs would have had to foul the Lakers instead of a desperation shot.

As for conspiracy theorists, if the NBA was rigged, they never would have "let" the Spurs win 4 titles. They would never have "let" the Celtics go 20 years without being in the Finals. They would not have "let" the Lakers get put out in 3 straight years. They would not "let" the boring Pistons beat the Lakers Dream team (Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Peyton). That's just crazy talk.

As for crazy trades, you guys forgot that the NBA rigged Kwame Brown to the Lakers for Caron Butler. Wasn't THAT a lop-sided trade? The Wizards stole the Lakers lunch money, but nobody complained because it was the Lakers getting ripped off.

But when the Lakers rip somebody off, it's a conspiracy.

Please read my post above, because it represents a fundamental difference in the way both sides are arguing. You're asking something along the lines of, "how can Tony Parker be an all-star? If he were an all-star, he would have gotten more playing time as a rookie and he would not have gotten schooled by Stephon Marbury in 2003." Things do change: the years the Spurs and Pistons won represented what is often thought of as years of resentment from the NBA. Every year, there were lower ratings, less controversy and fewer marketable NBA personalities. Here's another analogy for you: a man who steals 10,000 dollars from his bank but had no prior history of crimes is still a criminal (and should be punished...but that's a different topic). It takes only one day for the man to cross over from having no history of crimes to being a felon.

[TampaDude]

spurs lost cause manu played like shit and no one stepped up to help with scoring

DING DING DING...WINNER!!! :toast

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, the NBA is so fixed that it let small-market San Antonio have 4 championships.

That's the patent excuse as to why the NBA isn't fixed. But it holds no water.

The Spurs, despite being wrongly considered "boring" by mainstream America, has two things going for it. Manu and Tony. They have two international superstars on their team, so for the Spurs to be successful is great for the NBA internationally.

This is not saying that the Spurs were given anything. They earned every bit of their championships. But to say that there isn't collusion or shady practices going on in the NBA simply because the "boring Spurs" win just isn't true.

[monosylab1k]

For the record, the two best teams are in the Finals. But they got their status as the two best because of corrupt shortcuts involving collusion with other teams, which is simply wrong and taints this entire season.

[ChumpDumper]

You said taints.

[Lakers_55]

Of course the NBA's biggest conspiracy is to get people to make accounts all over NBA message boards claiming the league is rigged. Then everyone will just laugh it off, leaving the truth undetected.


The biggest trick the Devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.


Seriously, whether there is a conspiracy or not, more talk will emerge after this finals ends. If Boston wins, people will say the league handed it to Garnett, Pierce, and Allen, because they know it's their last shot, and the Lakers will be back. If the Lakers win, people will say the Lakers won because the league wants Kobe and company to win several more titles and rejuvinate the league as Bird/Magic did in the 80's and MJ did in the 90's.

[Dopey310]

God damn, Spurs fans actually believe the Lakers beat them because of refs. Damn, with that attitude, I will never give the Spurs credit for anything. You guys are definitely worse than Suns fans. Lakers overcame deficits against the Spurs like it was nothing. That's demoralizing for an opponent. Any objective can see that Lakers were the better team. Did Stern plan on Manu getting injured as well? Perhaps he paid Manu under the table to play like shit. :rolleyes

Boston beat the shit out of the Pistons. That three point play on Pierce was one of the biggest BS calls I've ever seen. Infact, the calls in game 6 all seemed to favor the Pistons. Hard to blame the refs when your team can't hit a shot to save their lives when it counted.:wakeup

[DazedAndConfused]

No need to get riled up Laker fans.

Just a bunch of sour grapes here who can't accept their team lost to a better team in the playoffs. Typical. It's funny how Spur fan fooled everyone into thinking he was classy, when you win it's easy to be classy. Now that they've lost we are seeing their true colors. LMAO at all the shit they talked to Suns fans, they are FAR worse.

[Spurtacus]

It wasn't fixed. Spurs-Lakers series was filled with bad calls for both sides.

[icem]

yea its clearly a conspiracy when the two teams with the best records in their conference end up meeting in the finals..... :rolleyes

the two best teams made it....

who can honestly say the spurs (who lost 4-1, including two games where they lost 17+ point leads) and the pistons (lost 4-2, including losing a 10 point lead in the 4th, AT HOME, in the biggest game of the season, WITH more fouls and FTA) should have been in the finals ????

anyone who says otherwise is in denial or an extreme homer. we got our asses kicked and so did the pistons. boston and LA have been the best teams almost all year long. boston is the best defensive team, and LA is the best offensive team. they both deserve it, and as a basketball fan i will be excited to watch it.

[Allanon]

Please read my post above, because it represents a fundamental difference in the way both sides are arguing. You're asking something along the lines of, "how can Tony Parker be an all-star? If he were an all-star, he would have gotten more playing time as a rookie and he would not have gotten schooled by Stephon Marbury in 2003." Things do change: the years the Spurs and Pistons won represented what is often thought of as years of resentment from the NBA. Every year, there were lower ratings, less controversy and fewer marketable NBA personalities. Here's another analogy for you: a man who steals 10,000 dollars from his bank but had no prior history of crimes is still a criminal (and should be punished...but that's a different topic). It takes only one day for the man to cross over from having no history of crimes to being a felon.

So your argument is the league decided it had enough of the bad Finals ratings so they fixed it so Lakers would get to meet the Celtics. They only decided they wanted to rig the NBA this year.

Is that believeable? Or is this more believeable:
1) The Celtics and Lakers this year are the 2 best teams in the NBA
2) Manu was injured in the Spur series so they lost to the Lakers
3) The Celtics were better than the Pistons. Rip was injured and so was Chauncey.
4) In the end the Lakers and Celtics are two very good teams that should be in the Finals.

If the Lakers and Celtics were sucky teams, I could believe there might be a conspiracy theory but can you honestly say there are 2 better teams in the NBA?

[v2freak]

You are half correct. Yes, I am arguing that the NBA has decided to flex it's influential muscle more than ever in "encouraging" which teams get to the finals. The officiating and NBA's choice of judgement were shoddy at times, IE Garnett pushing a referee and not getting suspended / Fisher jumping on Barry regardless of whether he traveled - how do you know he did not "travel" as a result of anticiating being whacked upside the head? Again, a conspiracy does not have to last several years. The NBA watched as hard-nosed teams like the Spurs and Pistons dominated, and probably got sick to its stomach. No doubt they are loving those damn Garnett gatorade commercials and Kobe jumping over cars/snakes/trees/planes/buildings or whatever the hell he does for publicity.

But no, I am not arguing that the officiating was the only factor. If anything, it probably accounted for upwards of 10%. But let me add that coming back from huge deficits has a lot to do with officiating and what calls determine who has the momentum. What makes me the most suspicious are these lopsided trades. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Conspiracy can come in many shapes and sizes. Maybe it's you and other Lakers fans who can't get over the officiating, and continue spinning the "Duncan 3 step travel / Odom goaltend / Fisher's shot hit the rim".

Let me set you straight.
1.) Agree, Celtics and Lakers are the best teams in the NBA. Again, how did they go from nothing to everything?
2.) Yes, Manu was injured and played a big role in losing to LA.
3.) Sure, whatever you say. 7 games to Atlanta, 7 games to Cleveland, 6 games to Detroit
4.) Yes, they are two very good teams. Pardon me if I won't be watching and thinking that it's gonna be the most exciting finals ever.

I offered my congratulations and conceded that the Lakers were the better team. Yet many of you are still here. Fans like KobeOwnsBowen claims he/she/it does not care whether Spurs fans watch the Finals or not. Lucky for us he and others continue to display good sportsmanship via taunting and trolling. Some Lakers fans here act like the Spurs and Lakers are western conference brethren and that Spurs fans should back the Lakers. No, not everyone wants to kiss LA's nuts; I won't be rooting for you or against you - considering I dislike the Celtics as well.

If the public later finds out that the NBA is more corrupt than previously thought, I will only shake my head. Think about it from their perspective. Would it look good for the NBA to put two great teams in the Finals after 1 year of "bad ratings"? No, that would be too obvious. If there indeed is a conspiracy, it is working perfectly as it has already sucked up all of the oblivious people who think that conspiracies have a time frame.

And to reiterate, I am simply playing both sides of the coin. I don't know if the NBA is rigging anything nor do I endorse such a conspiracy theory, but I may very well be headed in that direction given the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge what can only be described as shady. Many have dismissed it prematurely either because they want to live and die by the "no excuses" ideology, because they have not explored all of the possibilities, or simply because they are Lakers fans/Celtics fans/Demoralized Suns fans.

[YellowFever]

Of course it was fixed....

Stern got a couple of Ex-KGB types to take Ginobili to Area 51 between the series with NO and LA and put his ankle in a vice..and boom!

Makes perfect sense.

Also he hired a bunch of voodoo doctors and cast a spell on TP so he couldn't make any shots over 15 feet.

And did you see that instant replay where in the middle of the 3rd in Game 1 where Stern twitched his nose and the refs just subtly nodded their heads and and Lakers came back from 20 down....

And, hey, did you also see that replay where.....

[Allanon]

You are half correct. Yes, I am arguing that the NBA has decided to flex it's influential muscle more than ever in "encouraging" which teams get to the finals. The officiating and NBA's choice of judgement were shoddy at times, IE Garnett pushing a referee and not getting suspended / Fisher jumping on Barry regardless of whether he traveled - how do you know he did not "travel" as a result of anticiating being whacked upside the head?
I don't think there is precedent for shoving a referee loose...I think it happens often but isn't called. The ref initiated the contact, KG wasn't looking to harm or fight the ref so I don't know if that's worthy of a suspension.

As for the travel, even if he was anticipating a knock by Fisher, that's still a travel.



No, not everyone wants to kiss LA's nuts; I won't be rooting for you or against you - considering I dislike the Celtics as well.

Nothing wrong with that.



If the public later finds out that the NBA is more corrupt than previously thought, I will only shake my head. Think about it from their perspective. Would it look good for the NBA to put two great teams in the Finals after 1 year of "bad ratings"? No, that would be too obvious. If there indeed is a conspiracy, it is working perfectly as it has already sucked up all of the oblivious people who think that conspiracies have a time frame.

IF, it comes out later on it was some big conspiracy, I'll be shaking my head along with you. Until then, I think the Celtics and Lakers are in the Finals because they won games.



And to reiterate, I am simply playing both sides of the coin. I don't know if the NBA is rigging anything nor do I endorse such a conspiracy theory, but I may very well be headed in that direction given the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge what can only be described as shady. Many have dismissed it prematurely either because they want to live and die by the "no excuses" ideology, because they have not explored all of the possibilities, or simply because they are Lakers fans/Celtics fans/Demoralized Suns fans.

The other side of the coin is Spur fans only offer up conspiracies when their team loses but not when they win. Definitely two ways to look at it depending on what side you're on.

[angelbelow]

its possible.

[Supergirl]

Absolutely. Celtics were allowed to get away with shit against Atlanta, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Lakers have had a pretty easy path other than the Spurs, and the refs were totally in their back pocket all the way. Refs did their best to make NO win, NO just made some dumb mistakes than the Spurs were able to capitalize on.

Yes, there is a BIG part of me that thinks this whole playoffs has been rigged - because I still look at these teams and think the SPurs and the Pistons are EASILY the two best teams in the league.

Of course, I also saw the Spurs looking like they were running out of gas - esp Manu -but then again, when you have to beat the other team and the refs EVERy NIGHT - that takes its toll on you.

[Lakers_55]

As for the travel, even if he was anticipating a knock by Fisher, that's still a travel.


That's also brilliant defense, intimidation to force the travel. Fisher knew what he was doing. NBA dropped the ball not saying Barry traveled. Of course, the reason is there was a conspiracy. The League has some agenda in mind but we don't know what yet, and may never.

SA fans who say they won't be watching the finals are probably lying. They will be, no one wants to miss this.

[Dopey310]

Absolutely. Celtics were allowed to get away with shit against Atlanta, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Lakers have had a pretty easy path other than the Spurs, and the refs were totally in their back pocket all the way. Refs did their best to make NO win, NO just made some dumb mistakes than the Spurs were able to capitalize on.

Yes, there is a BIG part of me that thinks this whole playoffs has been rigged - because I still look at these teams and think the SPurs and the Pistons are EASILY the two best teams in the league.

Of course, I also saw the Spurs looking like they were running out of gas - esp Manu -but then again, when you have to beat the other team and the refs EVERy NIGHT - that takes its toll on you.


You sound like a sore loser. Must be difficult to be a Spurs fans when the refs are against you every night. I guess the Spurs were so great these past 9 years that they managed to win 4 titles despite the refs always favoring the other team. Or did Stern decide to screw the Spurs this year?:rollin

[Man In Black]

All I know is this:
the Yahoo mouthpiece known as Dan Wetzel posted the following line:

No one saw this coming then. Everyone will be watching now.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuNb3mOZ5qpmGvRNt8YYZb45nYcB?slug=dw-lakerscelticspreview053008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

You see that, that is called deflection. And Yahoo is playing the NBA's game.

[TampaDude]

That's also brilliant defense, intimidation to force the travel. Fisher knew what he was doing. NBA dropped the ball not saying Barry traveled. Of course, the reason is there was a conspiracy. The League has some agenda in mind but we don't know what yet, and may never.

SA fans who say they won't be watching the finals are probably lying. They will be, no one wants to miss this.

Hell yeah I'm gonna watch the Finals...it's gonna be great to watch the Lakeshow dismantle the soft, soft Celtics... :toast

[monosylab1k]

Spurs-Lakers series wasn't fixed. It didn't have to be.

The Lakers getting Pau Gasol for basically nothing was the fixed part.

Collusion*

[Purple & Gold]

spurs fan sounds sad and bitter

[Los Spurs]

Did anybody else feel that the whole playoffs were fixed for the celtics and the lakers? I mean they got away with a lot of stuff.
No free throws for berry and there were a lot of bad calls in both series favouring LA and Boston.

:toast

[DazedAndConfused]

I get the feeling the Spurs and Pistons were inferior teams and got beat fair and square.

I also get the feeling Spur fan can NEVER talk shit to Sun fan about whining. You've officially lost that right.

[Fabbs]

Poppycock blowing Gm 1s 20 pt lead and then a 17 pt lead in Gm 5 compared to conspiracy theory?...

Naw. The non call on Barry was a joke but even on that play Barry held the power to jump into DSwisher and most likely get the 3 shot foul. Of course Pop probably has Barry practice that in end of game practice sessions, right? :bang

Naw, the Spurs sealed their own fate vs the Fakers.

[icem]

Absolutely. Celtics were allowed to get away with shit against Atlanta, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Lakers have had a pretty easy path other than the Spurs, and the refs were totally in their back pocket all the way. Refs did their best to make NO win, NO just made some dumb mistakes than the Spurs were able to capitalize on.

Yes, there is a BIG part of me that thinks this whole playoffs has been rigged - because I still look at these teams and think the SPurs and the Pistons are EASILY the two best teams in the league.

Of course, I also saw the Spurs looking like they were running out of gas - esp Manu -but then again, when you have to beat the other team and the refs EVERy NIGHT - that takes its toll on you.


as a spurs fan i have to say, you are an idiot.....

we got our asses kicked plain and simple. we had plenty of opportunities to at least push it a game 6 at home, which could have led to a game 7 where anything can happen and we just failed. the better team won. we haven't looked like a championship team anyway since we got off the the great start at the beginning of the year. we have sucked against teams above .500 since then. we barely got by the hornets and then get smacked by the lakers. we were NOT the better team, which was pretty easy to see.

[Spurs da champs]

I get the feeling the Spurs and Pistons were inferior teams and got beat fair and square.

I also get the feeling Spur fan can NEVER talk shit to Sun fan about whining. You've officially lost that right.
No both teams defiantly had the potential to beat the lakers and celtics,But that no call at the end of game 4 is what screwed the spurs if they got free throws would have sent it to a game 6 b/c I know they would beat them in ot.
If KG got suspended for 2 or more games for pushing that official the celtics would be screwed.

[Supergirl]

You sound like a sore loser. Must be difficult to be a Spurs fans when the refs are against you every night. I guess the Spurs were so great these past 9 years that they managed to win 4 titles despite the refs always favoring the other team. Or did Stern decide to screw the Spurs this year?:rollin

Every title I've watched the Spurs win, with the exception of the one in 1999, has consisted of the Spurs winning against their opponent and the refs. It simply says a lot about how good the Spurs have been than they've won despite never getting the benefit of the calls from the refs. It also means they're capable of winning despite the refs. But this year, the refs plus Manu being injured meant they did not have enough in the tank to win it all.

It is simply a fact from anyone who follows basketball that the Spurs do not get the calls. Tim Duncan is the only superstar in the league who consistently does not get the calls - an unfortunate trait he inherited from his predecessor, David Robinson.

[Allanon]

During the Laker Spur series, I would say the Spurs got more calls to go their way. Even in the Barry non-call, he traveled before the foul, not to mention the Fisher shot hitting the rim but being ruled an airball. In addition, Duncan averaged around 10 foul shots per game, while Kobe averaged probably 1-2 Free Throws per game.

The Spurs this year had one of the lowest foul counts in the NBA, refs don't really call fouls on the Spurs much either.

And yes, Spurs do get calls to go their way. If you go back to the Spurs/Suns series:
fvkKdXLwt0U

I don't complain about the refs because it goes both ways, you might get screwed in 1 game but you get one in another.

[TheMACHINE]

Fixed? LOL...its an even year...spurs cant win in 2008, its part of the contract Pop did with Stern.

"The Spurs shall win only every other year after the Lakers finish thier contract for a threepeat."

[v2freak]

The other side of the coin is Spur fans only offer up conspiracies when their team loses but not when they win. Definitely two ways to look at it depending on what side you're on.

This year only confirms what Spurs fans have suspected for years: no way was the NBA happy with what was going on. It seems that a well-mannered and well-executing but "boring" team is just not as charismatic as a well-known team that has players who chant, holler and create controversy.

You could very well argue that. Afterall, I would say the same thing if I were a fan of a different team. But the Spurs winning for years only serves as a possible reason why the NBA would begin fixing things. The truth is, not rigging the outcome of games in the past does not serve as a precedent that it will never happen, period.


That's also brilliant defense, intimidation to force the travel. Fisher knew what he was doing. NBA dropped the ball not saying Barry traveled. Of course, the reason is there was a conspiracy. The League has some agenda in mind but we don't know what yet, and may never.

SA fans who say they won't be watching the finals are probably lying. They will be, no one wants to miss this.

Yeah that's one way to spin it. Let's make it sound even better: that kind of defense is revolutionary and will change the way all teams play defense. Maybe in 2016, we'll see Tony Parker whip out some mace and cause opposing point guards to cringe and travel out of fear.

[21_Blessings]

Hell yeah I'm gonna watch the Finals...it's gonna be great to watch the Lakeshow dismantle the soft, soft Celtics... :toast

Welcome aboard. :bking

[Dopey310]

Every title I've watched the Spurs win, with the exception of the one in 1999, has consisted of the Spurs winning against their opponent and the refs. It simply says a lot about how good the Spurs have been than they've won despite never getting the benefit of the calls from the refs. It also means they're capable of winning despite the refs. But this year, the refs plus Manu being injured meant they did not have enough in the tank to win it all.

It is simply a fact from anyone who follows basketball that the Spurs do not get the calls. Tim Duncan is the only superstar in the league who consistently does not get the calls - an unfortunate trait he inherited from his predecessor, David Robinson.


I'm sorry, but you're homerism is :lol. http://youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

Spurs never gets calls? Duncan doesn't get superstar calls? You mean, every time Duncan makes his "who me" face, he's always right? :rollin Spurs only got favorable calls when Donaghy refs I guess.

[Reggie Miller]

You are half correct. Yes, I am arguing that the NBA has decided to flex it's influential muscle more than ever in "encouraging" which teams get to the finals. The officiating and NBA's choice of judgement were shoddy at times, IE Garnett pushing a referee and not getting suspended / Fisher jumping on Barry regardless of whether he traveled - how do you know he did not "travel" as a result of anticiating being whacked upside the head? Again, a conspiracy does not have to last several years. The NBA watched as hard-nosed teams like the Spurs and Pistons dominated, and probably got sick to its stomach. No doubt they are loving those damn Garnett gatorade commercials and Kobe jumping over cars/snakes/trees/planes/buildings or whatever the hell he does for publicity.

But no, I am not arguing that the officiating was the only factor. If anything, it probably accounted for upwards of 10%. But let me add that coming back from huge deficits has a lot to do with officiating and what calls determine who has the momentum. What makes me the most suspicious are these lopsided trades. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Conspiracy can come in many shapes and sizes. Maybe it's you and other Lakers fans who can't get over the officiating, and continue spinning the "Duncan 3 step travel / Odom goaltend / Fisher's shot hit the rim".

Let me set you straight.
1.) Agree, Celtics and Lakers are the best teams in the NBA. Again, how did they go from nothing to everything?
2.) Yes, Manu was injured and played a big role in losing to LA.
3.) Sure, whatever you say. 7 games to Atlanta, 7 games to Cleveland, 6 games to Detroit
4.) Yes, they are two very good teams. Pardon me if I won't be watching and thinking that it's gonna be the most exciting finals ever.

I offered my congratulations and conceded that the Lakers were the better team. Yet many of you are still here. Fans like KobeOwnsBowen claims he/she/it does not care whether Spurs fans watch the Finals or not. Lucky for us he and others continue to display good sportsmanship via taunting and trolling. Some Lakers fans here act like the Spurs and Lakers are western conference brethren and that Spurs fans should back the Lakers. No, not everyone wants to kiss LA's nuts; I won't be rooting for you or against you - considering I dislike the Celtics as well.

If the public later finds out that the NBA is more corrupt than previously thought, I will only shake my head. Think about it from their perspective. Would it look good for the NBA to put two great teams in the Finals after 1 year of "bad ratings"? No, that would be too obvious. If there indeed is a conspiracy, it is working perfectly as it has already sucked up all of the oblivious people who think that conspiracies have a time frame.

And to reiterate, I am simply playing both sides of the coin. I don't know if the NBA is rigging anything nor do I endorse such a conspiracy theory, but I may very well be headed in that direction given the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge what can only be described as shady. Many have dismissed it prematurely either because they want to live and die by the "no excuses" ideology, because they have not explored all of the possibilities, or simply because they are Lakers fans/Celtics fans/Demoralized Suns fans.


As a Pacers fan, all I know is that the league has to deal with perception, as well as "reality." Were the Pacers the better team in 2000? Hell no. Were they playing five on eight? Hell yes. In other words, I don't think officiating determined the outcome of the 2000 Finals, but it sure as hell wasn't fair and impartial.

Explain to me, Lakers' fans, why the NBA, which has a salary cap, has the least parity of all major professional sports leagues?

P.S. The Lakers lick the sweat off of dead men's balls.

[Allanon]

Explain to me, Lakers' fans, why the NBA, which has a salary cap, has the least parity of all major professional sports leagues?

If anything this proves that it ISN'T fixed. All the strong teams are practically in the West whereas the East only has 2 strong teams. Why the hell would the NBA rig up such a screwed up league Pacer fan? These sucky teams hurt the NBA profits, the NBA would love to toss them some bonez to make it more competitive. In a perfectly rigged league, you'd have 25 competitive teams and just a couple sucky ones and it would be evenly split East and West.

[Supergirl]

If anything this proves that it ISN'T fixed. All the strong teams are practically in the West whereas the East only has 2 strong teams. Why the hell would the NBA rig up such a screwed up league Pacer fan? These sucky teams hurt the NBA profits, the NBA would love to toss them some bonez to make it more competitive. In a perfectly rigged league, you'd have 25 competitive teams and just a couple sucky ones and it would be evenly split East and West.

Because the NBA loses money every time the Lakers, NY, or Boston isn't in the big games. The big cities are where the money is, the money will never be in SA. SA repeating championships is the NBA's worst nightmare. Stern has done everything in his power to prevent that from happening.

I don't think its entirely in his control - I think we were still a Manu ankle injury and a healthy Chauncey Billups away from a Pistons-Spurs rematch. Because healthy, those two teams are still better teams than the Lakers and the Celtics.

[Allanon]

The NBA shares profit between the rich and poor teams. The poor teams don't bring in much revenue because their team sucks. If they could make the poor teams better, every team in the NBA makes more money.

Sure the Big Market teams make more money but there are alot more small market teams.

It's good for the league accountants to have alot of competitive teams, it increases ratings across every game, not just the big market ones thereby increasing league ratings, dispersed fandoms and lots more money.

This is why the lottery always goes to the poorest teams, they have to get better in order for the league to make more money.

[balli]

Because the NBA loses money every time the Lakers, NY, or Boston isn't in the big games.
Citation?


Stern has done everything in his power to prevent that from happening.
Such as?

And... you do realize that enroute to dispatching the Spurs in only 5 games the Lakers shot less FT's than San Antonio did?

[Dopey310]

Because the NBA loses money every time the Lakers, NY, or Boston isn't in the big games. The big cities are where the money is, the money will never be in SA. SA repeating championships is the NBA's worst nightmare. Stern has done everything in his power to prevent that from happening.

I don't think its entirely in his control - I think we were still a Manu ankle injury and a healthy Chauncey Billups away from a Pistons-Spurs rematch. Because healthy, those two teams are still better teams than the Lakers and the Celtics.

Don't drag Pistons fans in to your pathetic whining. The majority of Pistons fans conceded that the better team won. :lol

[21_Blessings]

Two #1 seeds in the finals? THE FIX IS IN

[v2freak]

Two #1 seeds in the finals? THE FIX IS IN


Don't drag Pistons fans in to your pathetic whining. The majority of Pistons fans conceded that the better team won. :lol

My god, you guys just don't get it. Most people agree that the better team won. It is a matter of the shady deals that took place which made these teams as good as they are. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this concept seems to fall upon deaf ears.

[DazedAndConfused]

My god, you guys just don't get it. Most people agree that the better team won. It is a matter of the shady deals that took place which made these teams as good as they are. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this concept seems to fall upon deaf ears.

Where is your outrage over GSW getting Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and an old ass Dale Davis?

What about the scraps DET gave up to get Rasheed Wallace?

[dav4463]

I don't know about fixed, but I think it's boring as shit.


WOW ! I never thought I would agree with a Mavs fan!:toast

[v2freak]

Where is your outrage over GSW getting Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and an old ass Dale Davis?

What about the scraps DET gave up to get Rasheed Wallace?

Please explain how that is the same.

[21_Blessings]

Please explain how that is the same.

He already explained. You're just too damn stupid to understand.

[101A]

When was the last time two teams made the finals, the year before NEITHER was considered a "contender"? Only one of this year's participants made the playoffs just last season; and the one that did got bounced in round one. Has there ever been such a meteoric rise by TWO teams the same season - and of ALL teams THOSE teams?

It IS very convenient for the NBA that it would turn out that way. Just a coincidence.

[Spurs da champs]

During the Laker Spur series, I would say the Spurs got more calls to go their way. Even in the Barry non-call, he traveled before the foul, not to mention the Fisher shot hitting the rim but being ruled an airball. In addition, Duncan averaged around 10 foul shots per game, while Kobe averaged probably 1-2 Free Throws per game.

The Spurs this year had one of the lowest foul counts in the NBA, refs don't really call fouls on the Spurs much either.


I don't complain about the refs because it goes both ways, you might get screwed in 1 game but you get one in another.

The spurs purposely did not foul only when they needed to obviously,THey made Kobe a jump shooter and they contested every one of his shots.

And that fisher shot did not hit the rim from what I saw.

[21_Blessings]

The spurs purposely did not foul only when they needed to obviously,THey made Kobe a jump shooter and they contested every one of his shots.

Kobe torched the Spurs.


And that fisher shot did not hit the rim from what I saw.

Stop acting like a blind homer. It hit the rim, thats a fact. Video evidence exists -- go enlighten yourself.

[Reggie Miller]

If anything this proves that it ISN'T fixed. All the strong teams are practically in the West whereas the East only has 2 strong teams. Why the hell would the NBA rig up such a screwed up league Pacer fan? These sucky teams hurt the NBA profits, the NBA would love to toss them some bonez to make it more competitive. In a perfectly rigged league, you'd have 25 competitive teams and just a couple sucky ones and it would be evenly split East and West.

You are misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting my point. More importantly, no Laker fan has been able to answer my question:

Why does the NBA, which has a salary cap, have the least parity of all major professional sports leagues?

I'm not saying the league is rigged from top to bottom. (I can see how someone might think I am trying to infer that.) As I said in my first post, the Lakers were the better team than the Pacers in 2000. What causes the problems is the perception of the league officials and/or referees altering outcomes (not to mention the shady trades). While the Lakers deserved to win the Finals in 2000, they didn't deserve the advantage of eight on five. This all but eliminated any chance the Pacers had. That is, the officials made it impossible for Indiana to "steal" a game; therefore, there was no reason to even play the series. You can't tell me crap like that doesn't hurt the league in the long run.

My "answer" is that the officiating in the NBA is at least a part of the parity problem.

It is not the only answer, of course. There are a lot of advantages to living and working in certain markets over other ones. When you are making millions, but are not really a "media" property, the Texas and Florida teams are awfully attractive (no state income tax). If you want to go "Hollywood" on retirement, the Lakers have a clear advantage. Some teams are more likely vehicles for reaching the HOF, due to their history or market size.

[Reggie Miller]

Two #1 seeds in the finals? THE FIX IS IN

The only intelligent thing you have ever said.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, I suppose.

[21_Blessings]

The only intelligent thing you have ever said.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, I suppose.

Most original thing you have ever said. Try not using a 200 year old catch phrase sometime

Here ya go: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5n5qLQ6ZUKE

[Spurs da champs]

Kobe torched the Spurs.
Sure he missed a lot of his shots but being the bitch and ball hog that kobe is he took a lot more shots to score points.





Stop acting like a blind homer. It hit the rim, thats a fact. Video evidence exists -- go enlighten yourself.
:lmao

[21_Blessings]

Sure he missed a lot of his shots but being the bitch and ball hog that kobe is he took a lot more shots to score points.


Kobe shot 53% for the series. Get out.

[Purple & Gold]

You are misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting my point. More importantly, no Laker fan has been able to answer my question:

Why does the NBA, which has a salary cap, have the least parity of all major professional sports leagues?

Because Dr. Buss is a genius :wakeup

[v2freak]

Kobe shot 53% for the series. Get out.

Let's just say he hit the big shots when he needed to, but he took a helluva lot of shots.

[odogg726]

When was the last time two teams made the finals, the year before NEITHER was considered a "contender"? Only one of this year's participants made the playoffs just last season; and the one that did got bounced in round one. Has there ever been such a meteoric rise by TWO teams the same season - and of ALL teams THOSE teams?

It IS very convenient for the NBA that it would turn out that way. Just a coincidence.


You wanna blame somebody for the Celts' "meteoric" rise? Blame Kevin McHale and his past relationship with former teammate and fellow GM Danny Ainge. I guarantee you that if Ainge was your GM, the big ticket would probably be a Spur right now.

As for Gasol? That shit was purely out of the blue. Can anyone remember such a high profile trade with such little noise or media attention at the time of? Of course it didn't hurt that Jerry West was still a consultant, let's not be naive about it either.

Either way, Kwame offers cap relief, Javaris still looks like a steal for falling all the way to the Lakers in the draft, those 2 number one picks can be packaged by Memphis if they choose to do so, and last I heard, Marc Gasol was tearing shit up in Europe. Who knows, in a few years we might be talking about how the Lakers gave away Crittenton and Marc Gasol for Pau Gasoft.

[Purple & Gold]

Let's just say he hit the big shots when he needed to, but he took a helluva lot of shots.

How about we just say he hit over 50% from the field. Whether or not he took a lot of shots doesn't matter when you're shooting over 50% from the field.

[Allanon]

More importantly, no Laker fan has been able to answer my question:

Why does the NBA, which has a salary cap, have the least parity of all major professional sports leagues?

Because the draft is so susceptible to a bad pick and 1 good player can dominate an entire team. One bad pick and you're screwed. The NBA has the fewest team members of any major professional sport so the individual is more important.

Case in point are the Detroit Pistons who had the #2 pick with that young stud Darko Milicic. They'd be the NBA champs if they had gone with DWade instead.

The Spurs got Tim Duncan and that setup the franchise for a decade.

Portland picked Sam Bowie instead of #23. Everybody knows how that went for both franchises.

In 2006, the Bobcats blew their wad on Adam Morrison instead of Rudy Gay. So they still suck.

2005, Milwaukee picked up the super Andrew Bogut. Atlanta who desperately needed a point guard decided to get a shooting guard in Marvin Williams. Meanwhile, the Jazz picked up leftover Deron Williams and the Hornets picked up that Chris Paul guy. Atlanta would be a top 10 team right now if they had just picked up a point guard they knew they desperately needed.

2004, went pretty much OK, except the Lakers picked up Vujacic at #27. Half the guys before Sasha aren't even in the NBA anymore.

Kobe Bean Bryant was a #13 pick that the Lakers only got on a draft day deal for Vlade to the Hornets. Why didn't the 12 teams before choose him? If the Hawks had Kobe, they'd be dominating the league right now. The Lakers would be a loser team without that lucky #13 pick.

The Pacers are a worst case scenario, they're always good enough to make the Playoffs but not good enough to win it all. So they never end up with good lottery picks. Let's see what they do with theirs this year.

Stupid-ass draft picks make for bad parity.... The NBA, where one man happens.

[DazedAndConfused]

Because the draft is so susceptible to a bad pick and 1 good player can dominate an entire team. One bad pick and you're screwed. The NBA has the fewest team members of any major professional sport so the individual is more important.

Case in point are the Detroit Pistons who had the #2 pick with that young stud Darko Milicic. They'd be the NBA champs if they had gone with DWade instead.

The Spurs got Tim Duncan and that setup the franchise for a decade.

Portland picked Sam Bowie instead of #23. Everybody knows how that went for both franchises.

In 2006, the Bobcats blew their wad on Adam Morrison instead of Rudy Gay. So they still suck.

2005, Milwaukee picked up the super Andrew Bogut. Atlanta who desperately needed a point guard decided to get a shooting guard in Marvin Williams. Meanwhile, the Jazz picked up leftover Deron Williams and the Hornets picked up that Chris Paul guy. Atlanta would be a top 10 team right now if they had just picked up a point guard they knew they desperately needed.

2004, went pretty much OK, except the Lakers picked up Vujacic at #27. Half the guys before Sasha aren't even in the NBA anymore.

Kobe Bean Bryant was a #13 pick that the Lakers only got on a draft day deal for Vlade to the Hornets. Why didn't the 12 teams before choose him? If the Hawks had Kobe, they'd be dominating the league right now. The Lakers would be a loser team without that lucky #13 pick.

The Pacers are a worst case scenario, they're always good enough to make the Playoffs but not good enough to win it all. So they never end up with good lottery picks. Let's see what they do with theirs this year.

Stupid-ass draft picks make for bad parity.... The NBA, where one man happens.

Amazing post. I think it's just easier for people to shout CONSPIRACY when they see the same teams winning year after year instead of actually analyzing the situation.

[Purple & Gold]

Ignorant people don't understand why the Lakers are always relevant. And good post Allanon. :tu Hopefully some people might understand, but I doubt it.

[21_Blessings]

Let's just say he hit the big shots when he needed to, but he took a helluva lot of shots.

Kobe shot 53% for the series and single handedly won games 1 and 5 in the 4th. You're embarrasing yourself now. It's hilarious.

[v2freak]

Kobe shot 53% for the series and single handedly won games 1 and 5 in the 4th. You're embarrasing yourself now. It's hilarious.

I'm not sure what was so embarassing about what I said. I simply matched two obvious statements in a diplomatic attempt to solve a dispute between Spurs da champs and you. I understand there is no way to prove "he hit the big shots and took a lot of shots" as they are subjective in nature, but I can show you statistics. He shot over 50% as you are so keen to claim, but he also took 120 shots in 5 games. He is also not like Duncan, who may take 2 or 3 shots in 1 possession due to his own offensive rebounding. If you took any time off from jerking off to Kobe's picture to watch the game, you'd realize that the Spurs essentially made him a jumpshooter, as other Spurs fans have said. Hence, one of his shots often used up an entire Lakers' possession. This is also a good explanation for why he did not parade to the free throw line. I do not know what you consider to be a lot of shots, but in my book, that is plenty. I can completely understand why people would a.) not like playing with him and b.) consider him a ballhog.

I don't know what your deal is, or why you laugh at things that are not even funny, but you should really try to analyze things at face value. Before this post, I had not said anything about whether he was a ballhog or whether he was a great player. I simply said that he hit a lot of big shots (probably something that you, me and Purple & Gold can agree on) and that he took a lot of shots. But apparently you and Purple & Gold cannot even agree with me on such a middle ground-like statement.

[Tacker]

The NBA shares profit between the rich and poor teams. The poor teams don't bring in much revenue because their team sucks. If they could make the poor teams better, every team in the NBA makes more money.

Sure the Big Market teams make more money but there are alot more small market teams.

It's good for the league accountants to have alot of competitive teams, it increases ratings across every game, not just the big market ones thereby increasing league ratings, dispersed fandoms and lots more money.

This is why the lottery always goes to the poorest teams, they have to get better in order for the league to make more money.

this thread fails so badly.... last years celtics team is much different than this year.... this year lakers has a new allstar and future hall of famer in Pau Gasol.....

[Purple & Gold]

I'm not sure what was so embarassing about what I said. I simply matched two obvious statements in a diplomatic attempt to solve a dispute between Spurs da champs and you. I understand there is no way to prove "he hit the big shots and took a lot of shots" as they are subjective in nature, but I can show you statistics. He shot over 50% as you are so keen to claim, but he also took 120 shots in 5 games. He is also not like Duncan, who may take 2 or 3 shots in 1 possession due to his own offensive rebounding. If you took any time off from jerking off to Kobe's picture to watch the game, you'd realize that the Spurs essentially made him a jumpshooter, as other Spurs fans have said. Hence, one of his shots often used up an entire Lakers' possession. This is also a good explanation for why he did not parade to the free throw line. I do not know what you consider to be a lot of shots, but in my book, that is plenty. I can completely understand why people would a.) not like playing with him and b.) consider him a ballhog.

I don't know what your deal is, or why you laugh at things that are not even funny, but you should really try to analyze things at face value. Before this post, I had not said anything about whether he was a ballhog or whether he was a great player. I simply said that he hit a lot of big shots (probably something that you, me and Purple & Gold can agree on) and that he took a lot of shots. But apparently you and Purple & Gold cannot even agree with me on such a middle ground-like statement.

So it's OK for Duncan to take a lot of shots, but not Kobe :rolleyes

Does he take a lot of shots? Yes, but all great scorers do. So I really don't know what you're trying to say. I'm sure any scorer would take a lot of shots if he was shooting 53% and winning games. Just a weak attempt at you guys to try to paint him as a ballhog. But I forgot, it's ok if Duncan takes a lot of shots because they're all from his own misses :lol :lol

[v2freak]

So it's OK for Duncan to take a lot of shots, but not Kobe :rolleyes

Does he take a lot of shots? Yes, but all great scorers do. So I really don't know what you're trying to say. I'm sure any scorer would take a lot of shots if he was shooting 53% and winning games. Just a weak attempt at you guys to try to paint him as a ballhog. But I forgot, it's ok if Duncan takes a lot of shots because they're all from his own misses :lol :lol

Unsurprisingly, you've missed everything from my post. I'm interested to see how you derived that from what I said. Alas, it is my own fault. I am not explaining things very well, it seems.

You completely ignored my point on used possessions. Unfortunately, there is no "used possessions" statistic that I know of, but I know that a lot of Duncan's "shot attempts" are really him trying to tip the ball away from opponents. Due to the nature of Duncan's position, many of his misses allow him a chance to rebound the ball in the event that he misses (an event that occurs only about 50% of the time overall). That may explain his high rebounding numbers.

I am also amused by the fact that you do not distinguish between a ball hog and a good scorer. A person on a team that shoots 80 times and makes 40 shots while the rest of his team gets 1 shot attempt total is a good scorer and definitely not a ball hog, right?

[Purple & Gold]

Unsurprisingly, you've missed everything from my post. I'm interested to see how you derived that from what I said. Alas, it is my own fault. I am not explaining things very well, it seems.

You completely ignored my point on used possessions. Unfortunately, there is no "used possessions" statistic that I know of, but I know that a lot of Duncan's "shot attempts" are really him trying to tip the ball away from opponents. Due to the nature of Duncan's position, many of his misses allow him a chance to rebound the ball in the event that he misses (an event that occurs only about 50% of the time overall). That may explain his high rebounding numbers.

I am also amused by the fact that you do not distinguish between a ball hog and a good scorer. A person on a team that shoots 80 times and makes 40 shots while the rest of his team gets 1 shot attempt total is a good scorer and definitely not a ball hog, right?

Well at least your honest now and admit you are trying to call him a ballhog. Fact is if you are winning and you are shooting a high % you are not a ballhog. You're doing what it takes for your team to win. This is a fact that for whatever reason you have missed.

I know all about Duncan getting his own rebounds :blah :blah :blah But you act like he's Moses Malone missing his shots on purpose. If you watched the Lakers at all you would realize that they share the ball and get everybody involved. This is not some Allen Iverson team, where 1 player dominates the ball for 4 quarters.

The only reason you think the Lakers are all Kobe is because during each 4th quarter he ripped your guys heart out. That's what is called being a clutch player and stomping on your opponent when they are down. Instead of being a whiny bitch like so many of your fellow spurs fans, why don't you just admit that the Lakers were better this year and that Kobe personally bitched slapped your team. Some spur fans here have really sank to new lows. :nope :nope

[Allanon]

this thread fails so badly.... last years celtics team is much different than this year.... this year lakers has a new allstar and future hall of famer in Pau Gasol.....

What the hell are you talking about. Who's on this team?

Even with Pau, the Lakers wouldn't be anything if they hadn't picked up Kobe Bryant on a draft day trade at #13. Jerry West setup the Lakers legacy by trading one of the best NBA Centers (Vlade Divac) for some high school kid named Kobe Bryant. 24 other teams could have done the same thing but didn't cuz nobody had the cajones. This could have set the Lakers back for years if it was the wrong choice.

Paul Pierce, the leading scorer and an MVP candidate with KG was the #10 Celtic draft pick. Where would the Celtics be without Paul Pierce this year? That was an excellent draft pick, only Dirk Nirwitzki picked 1 spot before him is playing better right now.

The Clippers had the #1 pick that year, they grabbed the Kandi Man, they sure setup their team for the next decade! Could you imagine how good Paul Pierce or Dirk or Vince Carter, Elton Brand, Corey Maggette would have been for the last 5 years?

How would the Celtics have gotten KG without Al Jefferson, the Celtics #15 draft pick?

Ray Allen was gotten primarily for draft choice Jeff Green who is kicking ass on the Sonics.

Celtics are good now because they drafted very well, they picked up very good young talent Al Jefferson and Jeff Green (draft rights), those are 2 damn good players. You think they could have gotten KG if they had drafted Kirk Snyder or Luke Jackson instead?

This team may be different but it was created via trading excellent draft picks. It's easy to look at the NBA with a shallow view of conspiracies. There ain't no conspiracy, just stupid GMs and bad draft picks.

[lefty]

Vos gueules

[21_Blessings]

I'm not sure what was so embarassing about what I said. I simply matched two obvious statements in a diplomatic attempt to solve a dispute between Spurs da champs and you. I understand there is no way to prove "he hit the big shots and took a lot of shots" as they are subjective in nature, but I can show you statistics. He shot over 50% as you are so keen to claim, but he also took 120 shots in 5 games. He is also not like Duncan, who may take 2 or 3 shots in 1 possession due to his own offensive rebounding. If you took any time off from jerking off to Kobe's picture to watch the game, you'd realize that the Spurs essentially made him a jumpshooter, as other Spurs fans have said. Hence, one of his shots often used up an entire Lakers' possession. This is also a good explanation for why he did not parade to the free throw line. I do not know what you consider to be a lot of shots, but in my book, that is plenty. I can completely understand why people would a.) not like playing with him and b.) consider him a ballhog.

Kobe got plenty of lay ups that series, including 3 crucial ones in game 5 with one coming in Duncan's face during the 4th quarter. Kobe has one of the best mid-range jump shots in the game, Spurs didn't 'make him a jumpshooter' Kobe just torched the shit out of him. Besides that, Kobe was being mauled all series and he never got any calls. It was utterly obvious.

Kobe shot 53% on the series. He torched the Spurs. When you are shooting 53% you should be the one shooting the ball especially when you are the best scorer on the planet. Get a clue.

[v2freak]

Well at least your honest now and admit you are trying to call him a ballhog. Fact is if you are winning and you are shooting a high % you are not a ballhog. You're doing what it takes for your team to win. This is a fact that for whatever reason you have missed.

I know all about Duncan getting his own rebounds :blah :blah :blah But you act like he's Moses Malone missing his shots on purpose. If you watched the Lakers at all you would realize that they share the ball and get everybody involved. This is not some Allen Iverson team, where 1 player dominates the ball for 4 quarters.

The only reason you think the Lakers are all Kobe is because during each 4th quarter he ripped your guys heart out. That's what is called being a clutch player and stomping on your opponent when they are down. Instead of being a whiny bitch like so many of your fellow spurs fans, why don't you just admit that the Lakers were better this year and that Kobe personally bitched slapped your team. Some spur fans here have really sank to new lows. :nope :nope

Obviously we have very different ideas on ballhogging. That is pretty much where this little game is going. And I never implied that he misses his shots on purpose. WTF? I doubt he would sacrifice FG% for rebounding.

And I have already conceded that the Lakers were a better team. In fact, I've done so many times, be it in this thread or in other "OMG LAKERZ R DA BEST" threads.


Kobe got plenty of lay ups that series, including 3 crucial ones in game 5 with one coming in Duncan's face during the 4th quarter. Kobe has one of the best mid-range jump shots in the game, Spurs didn't 'make him a jumpshooter' Kobe just torched the shit out of him. Besides that, Kobe was being mauled all series and he never got any calls. It was utterly obvious.

Kobe shot 53% on the series. He torched the Spurs. When you are shooting 53% you should be the one shooting the ball especially when you are the best scorer on the planet. Get a clue.


He may have gotten "plenty of lay ups" but from what I saw, most of his shots came from the perimeter. And yes, he made a lot of them because his is a great mid-range jump shooter. What's your point? The Spurs made him a jumpshooter because they didn't want him slashing, drawing fouls and making stupid faces, which he tends to do after a dunk.

You are so eager to defend every one of Kobe's actions, it is disgusting. Even if he were shooting 80% on the season but in one game, he was 1-25 with 5 minutes to go in the 4th, you would probably want him to keep firing them. [Insert childish comment like "you're embarassing yourself" or "get a clue"]

[Reggie Miller]

Because the draft is so susceptible to a bad pick and 1 good player can dominate an entire team. One bad pick and you're screwed. The NBA has the fewest team members of any major professional sport so the individual is more important.

Case in point are the Detroit Pistons who had the #2 pick with that young stud Darko Milicic. They'd be the NBA champs if they had gone with DWade instead.

The Spurs got Tim Duncan and that setup the franchise for a decade.

Portland picked Sam Bowie instead of #23. Everybody knows how that went for both franchises.

In 2006, the Bobcats blew their wad on Adam Morrison instead of Rudy Gay. So they still suck.

2005, Milwaukee picked up the super Andrew Bogut. Atlanta who desperately needed a point guard decided to get a shooting guard in Marvin Williams. Meanwhile, the Jazz picked up leftover Deron Williams and the Hornets picked up that Chris Paul guy. Atlanta would be a top 10 team right now if they had just picked up a point guard they knew they desperately needed.

2004, went pretty much OK, except the Lakers picked up Vujacic at #27. Half the guys before Sasha aren't even in the NBA anymore.

Kobe Bean Bryant was a #13 pick that the Lakers only got on a draft day deal for Vlade to the Hornets. Why didn't the 12 teams before choose him? If the Hawks had Kobe, they'd be dominating the league right now. The Lakers would be a loser team without that lucky #13 pick.

The Pacers are a worst case scenario, they're always good enough to make the Playoffs but not good enough to win it all. So they never end up with good lottery picks. Let's see what they do with theirs this year.

Stupid-ass draft picks make for bad parity.... The NBA, where one man happens.


Thank you for answering the question. I actually agree with you, by the way.

You forgot to mention that most guys would rather live in L.A. or Miami than Minneapolis or Milwaukee. That's huge, too.

I still think people are missing my whole point, though. The NBA has to deal with perception, not necessarily reality. The officiating has to get a LOT better and soon, or the conspiracy talk will just keep gaining momentum. It seems to gain more momentum every year here lately.

Also, L.A. fans, let's get real for a minute. I'm not saying the Lakers are succesful because of Herr Stern. However, you would have to be a complete fool not to realize the advantages your team enjoys. You get two extra home games every year. Your team pretty much rules the roost locally, because for some unknown reason, L.A. still doesn't have an NFL franchise. Perfect weather and future media contacts out the whazoo for veteran players. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but just admit it IS a competitive advantage, OK?

[v2freak]

I don't see this series going fewer than 6 games.

[Lakers08Champs]

Stop crying because we defeated your spurs in 5. yeah I know the truth hurts sometimes. :lol

[v2freak]

My comment has a dual purpose: I believe the NBA would want it to go further because it means more revenue and exposure, and because it shows that the teams are evenly matched. Speaking of which, I also think a reason the series will go at least 6 games is because both teams are very good.

I don't see how that is crying. There are ridiculously stupid inferences being made in this thread.

[MadDog73]

The only thing that is questionable are the trades.

The Lakers beat the Spurs, foul or no foul.

The Celtics beat the Pistons.

But, how those teams both got Gasol and KG for nothing... that's a trick I want the Spurs to learn!