If Only...

[mikekim]

I know, I know...the playoffs are over, we lost.

But I just can't help it. I recently found this clip of Manu's 40 point games back in the regular season (CLE and MIN) and wow...if only we had 80% of that Manu.

I think much of the national media is failing to realize how limited Manu was this series. How limited he was for various reasons (whether it was all the injuries or not) is no more than a footnote on their "analysis" of the series. Like really...it's amazing how easily they forgot just how good he can be. How good he IS.

jtwyGpkQ5Z8

[Emanuel20]

That would have been awesome - having Manu play like this in the Playoffs.

But I think I read someone suggesting Manu to be playing limited minutes next season in about 40 games or so. Therefore, we can have Manu with fresh legs and at his best.
I don't know if that's possible but with the current roster we might not even make the playoffs. But if they add some pieces, this might work.

[mikekim]

That would have been awesome - having Manu play like this in the Playoffs.

But I think I read someone suggesting Manu to be playing limited minutes next season in about 40 games or so. Therefore, we can have Manu with fresh legs and at his best.
I don't know if that's possible but with the current roster we might not even make the playoffs. But if they add some pieces, this might work.

Well yeah, I think limiting his minutes is a given. The Spurs had extremely untimely injuries to all their Big Three, in succession. They were falling apart...Manu put the team on his back because that was the only way to keep the team afloat.

[1Parker1]

A healthy Manu would probably change the entire landscape of this series.

Nonetheless, it is what it is. Health and Luck have just as much to do with a championship as heart and talent.

[peskypesky]

and as much as we Spurs fans want to whine and moan abut Manu's injury, remember that the Lakers have been playing without Bynum due to his injury.

there's no doubt in my mind that if Manu had been healthy, we would've beaten the Lakers, but he wasn't, and I blame Pop for playing him so many minutes when he rarely could contribute, and often was a liability.

[Biggems]

and as much as we Spurs fans want to whine and moan abut Manu's injury, remember that the Lakers have been playing without Bynum due to his injury.

there's no doubt in my mind that if Manu had been healthy, we would've beaten the Lakers, but he wasn't, and I blame Pop for playing him so many minutes when he rarely could contribute, and often was a liability.

yes, but they got Gasol to replace him....

[Avitus1]

*sigh*

If only...

[E20]

Wow... you guys are still making exuses even after Manu said he was fine.
After the series Manu said he wasn't fine.

[exstatic]

Wow... you guys are still making exuses even after Manu said he was fine.

He wasn't. Manu isn't on Kobe's level, but at 12 ppg, something was wrong. He did say in some interviews that while he wasn't in pain, he didn't have his lift. If Kobe scored 12 ppg and you lost in 5 games, I think Laker Fan might be smart enough to know something was wrong with him.

[E20]

exstatic, did you change your name to Playoff-exstatic during the playoffs?

[exstatic]

exstatic, did you change your name to Playoff-exstatic during the playoffs?

Si.:sombrero:

[Robinzine]

A healthy Manu would probably change the entire landscape of this series.

Nonetheless, it is what it is. Health and Luck have just as much to do with a championship as heart and talent.A healthier Kobe without 2 fingers taped together or a bad back would have changed things too. Or how about a healthy Bynum or Ariza. You're right - health and luck have a lot to do with a championship. But in the Lakers case, despite all their injuries, they still had enough to get through to the finals.

[1Parker1]

A healthier Kobe without 2 fingers taped together or a bad back would have changed things too..

:lmao :lmao LakerFans are so delusional it's scary. WTF did Kobe average this series and heck this entire playoffs? His 2 bitty fingered tapes are showing absolutely no ill affects on his game.

If he had a jammed ankle and averaged 12 ppg, do you think that would have changed things for the Lakers? Or would you claim he wasn't injured and was just playing bad?

[mikekim]

A healthier Kobe without 2 fingers taped together or a bad back would have changed things too. Or how about a healthy Bynum or Ariza. You're right - health and luck have a lot to do with a championship. But in the Lakers case, despite all their injuries, they still had enough to get through to the finals.

Okay, I don't mean to bump my own thread like this, and I think 1Parker1 did a good job, but I have to respond to this.

Kobe with a bad back and 2 fingers taped??

The most accurate way to tell how significant an injury is by seeing how much it limits an athlete. Take the injury away and how much would the player improve? Okay, so let's say Kobe's fingers are healed "miraculously" and his back is put back to "normal." How different/better is he going to play? Is he going to average 65 points, 20 assists, and 20 rebounds?

Heal Manu's ankle? It would be a night and day difference. With a healthy Manu (and if Tim didn't catch the damn flu for the first two games vs. NO), I think this series is won by the Spurs in a comfortable 6 games -- maybe even 5.

And Bynum? Okay, he would make a big difference. So throw a healthy Bynum in and the series turns into a hard-fought, classic 6 or 7 game series that could go either way.

And let's not forget, a big part of the Lakers "overcoming" their obstacles had to do with Memphis handing them Pau Gasol for nothing. I won't say it's collusion or conspiracy...but just ridiculously dumb, and 10 times more valuable than anything just good ole' luck can get you in a trade-deadline move.

I really don't think Ariza would've made too notable of an impact, no matter how many Laker fans mistake him for Shawn Marion.

[Harry Callahan]

Wow... you guys are still making exuses even after Manu said he was fine.

Don't be stupid (if that is possible). That was fodder for the media.

And the Lakers and their legion of "fans" wouldn't have mentioned anything if their shooting guard had averaged less than half of his regular season scoring average? BS. This guy had just come off his best regular season ever statistically. If Bryant averaged 15 points a game in this series (a similar dropoff) the Laker "fans" would have howled about that being the reason they lost (and they would have lost because the rest of those guys were very inconsistent in this series)

We have watched this guy for six seasons and probably 60 or 70 playoff games. We KNOW what this guy is capable of doing and so do you.

His physical limitations were the MOST important factor in this series. As good as Bryant was, two of the four Laker wins the Spurs were shooting for the win in the last ten seconds (an 83-81 game late in game 5 also). A 60% Ginobili and the Spurs were right there.

The Lakers caught an enormous break with Ginobili being what he was in this series.

[dg7md]

And we caught a break with Dirk being out in 2003, and a bigger break in 1999 that the Knicks made it to the Finals. Championships aren't all skill, they are also based on luck and health.

Although it's hard to find any sort of disputable claims undermining the 05 or 07 'chip, but teams gotta have the skill AND the luck involved with the draw.

If it's easier for people to stomach that we got beat by claiming we beat ourselves and not that a better team beat us, then whatever works for you I suppose.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Manu has been the closer for this team for two years, and unfortunately closing games is where we lost this series. Manu was severely limited by injury/fatigue, and I think we would've won it (by winning games 1 and 4 if Manu were able to take the game over late like he has for years) but for his obvious physical incapacity. However, it wasn't to be. :depressed

Any Laker fan who thinks that Manu wasn't injured is kidding themselves. He had no explosive first step, no lift, no leap, and couldn't get past anyone... if you've watched him at all this season, or throughout his career, you know that he can cut up a defence with both his driving and pull-up/step-back game, and that both feed his 3-pt shooting, but we saw none of any of that. He was banged up as hell.

[Fake Dynasty]

Manu just got defense put on him more than anything. Please with all these excuses. The Lakers defense is underrated and was obviously underestimated in it's ability to keep Parker and Ginobili from terrorizing the painted area. The plan was to allow Duncan to do what he could one-on-one, but shut down the paint and not let #9 and #20 control the series. The Machine played solid defense on Manu throughout, keeping him going right. The only game in the series in which Manu was able to consistently get to his left, he scored 30, the Spurs won, and Manu was BACK!!!! Then he got shutdown the rest of the series and suddenly, he's injured again, although he consistently said that he felt better every day and was just playing bad.

Spurs fans are full of shit on this one. Stop it because you look desperate.

[mikekim]

Manu just got defense put on him more than anything. Please with all these excuses. The Lakers defense is underrated and was obviously underestimated in it's ability to keep Parker and Ginobili from terrorizing the painted area. The plan was to allow Duncan to do what he could one-on-one, but shut down the paint and not let #9 and #20 control the series. The Machine played solid defense on Manu throughout, keeping him going right. The only game in the series in which Manu was able to consistently get to his left, he scored 30, the Spurs won, and Manu was BACK!!!! Then he got shutdown the rest of the series and suddenly, he's injured again, although he consistently said that he felt better every day and was just playing bad.

Spurs fans are full of shit on this one. Stop it because you look desperate.

Did you watch the clip I posted? (If you brush off that clip, this thread can very well turn into a Manu highlight reel thread)

[Emanuel20]

Manu just got defense put on him more than anything. Please with all these excuses. The Lakers defense is underrated and was obviously underestimated in it's ability to keep Parker and Ginobili from terrorizing the painted area. The plan was to allow Duncan to do what he could one-on-one, but shut down the paint and not let #9 and #20 control the series. The Machine played solid defense on Manu throughout, keeping him going right. The only game in the series in which Manu was able to consistently get to his left, he scored 30, the Spurs won, and Manu was BACK!!!! Then he got shutdown the rest of the series and suddenly, he's injured again, although he consistently said that he felt better every day and was just playing bad.

Spurs fans are full of shit on this one. Stop it because you look desperate.

I don't know if we were watching the same series but Manu was not forced right....If manu wanted to go left/right, he could have. However, Manu had limited movement and could not switch directions at all, therefore the lakers exposed his weakness of not altering sides and only allowing him to switch sides one time and forced him to pass the ball off the second dribble. However turning was a problem for him too, b/c he could not push off of the ankle and committed a turnover.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Manu just got defense put on him more than anything. Please with all these excuses. The Lakers defense is underrated and was obviously underestimated in it's ability to keep Parker and Ginobili from terrorizing the painted area. The plan was to allow Duncan to do what he could one-on-one, but shut down the paint and not let #9 and #20 control the series. The Machine played solid defense on Manu throughout, keeping him going right. The only game in the series in which Manu was able to consistently get to his left, he scored 30, the Spurs won, and Manu was BACK!!!! Then he got shutdown the rest of the series and suddenly, he's injured again, although he consistently said that he felt better every day and was just playing bad.

Spurs fans are full of shit on this one. Stop it because you look desperate.

Bullshit. The 30pt game included 5 3s and 7 FTs, and he got to the rim once. That is NOT Manu's typical game. Did you see any explosion in his stride, or lift to the rim or in his jumpshot? I didn't. Did you see him moving quickly laterally on D to take charges or steal the ball? I didn't. But these are things he's done consistently when healthy since 2004. He was at about 40% physically during the series, but Pop had to play him because he had no other option.

I watched him play about 90 games this year and I know what he's capable of - when he's healthy, no-one in the league can contain him. He finds a way to be effective against even great defenses, such as the stretch of games when Tim was out and Manu was constantly doubled but still scored and assisted the team to wins. What we saw from him in this series was not down to the defense (which is not to say the Faker's defense was bad because it was good), that was not the reason Manu was a miserable failure in the series, the fact that he was banged up and fatigued was.

Why don't you Lakers fans just fuck off anyway? Don't you have better things to do? And are you really pretending you know more about the Spurs than we do? Fuck off, seriously, just fuck off.

[Zee Laker]

Yes that was huge factor in the series and why it ended in 5. Manu was a shadow of himself. Couldnt get any lift and simply couldnt attact the basket.

The Lakers got a break there

Do u think Manu can stay healthy in years to come by thou? he is getting older and Pop needs to play in the Reg season for the Spurs to get a good seeding. There isnt many options on the bench.

[Emanuel20]

Yes that was huge factor in the series and why it ended in 5. Manu was a shadow of himself. Couldnt get any lift and simply couldnt attact the basket.

The Lakers got a break there

Do u think Manu can stay healthy in years to come by thou? he is getting older and Pop needs to play in the Reg season for the Spurs to get a good seeding. There isnt many options on the bench.

I think that if we upgrade the bench and the team, maybe Manu can sit out or play limited minutes...and be at his best in the playoffs. Now this certainly decreases the chance of him getting hurt and fatigued so it might work. Since Manu will be coming off the Olympics, Pop should rest him a lot and play him sparingly.

[Fake Dynasty]

I don't know if we were watching the same series but Manu was not forced right....If manu wanted to go left/right, he could have. However, Manu had limited movement and could not switch directions at all, therefore the lakers exposed his weakness of not altering sides and only allowing him to switch sides one time and forced him to pass the ball off the second dribble. However turning was a problem for him too, b/c he could not push off of the ankle and committed a turnover.Uh no. Watch the series over (if you can bare it) and you'll see that the dude wasn't limited. He was just d'd up.

[Fake Dynasty]

Spurs fans and their excuses. If you watch game 3, you'll see that although he was hot from the outside, the threat of the drive was the reason he was able to get enough separation to launch. He wasn't that hurt. Spurs fans just want excuses. I call bullshit.

[mikekim]

Uh no. Watch the series over (if you can bare it) and you'll see that the dude wasn't limited. He was just d'd up.

Spurs fans and their excuses. If you watch game 3, you'll see that although he was hot from the outside, the threat of the drive was the reason he was able to get enough separation to launch. He wasn't that hurt. Spurs fans just want excuses. I call bullshit.


You're an idiot...for that, you will be the first troll I put on my ignore list, which is surprising 'cos there have been some pretty bad trolls here.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yes that was huge factor in the series and why it ended in 5. Manu was a shadow of himself. Couldnt get any lift and simply couldnt attact the basket.

The Lakers got a break there

Do u think Manu can stay healthy in years to come by thou? he is getting older and Pop needs to play in the Reg season for the Spurs to get a good seeding. There isnt many options on the bench.

A Laker fan with a clue! Well played, sir. :toast

Manu's health is an ongoing concern. How quickly the beating he has taken due to the way he plays catches up to him, and whether or not he can adapt as he loses a step, are big questions. Hopefully he has 2 more excellent years in him if we can limit his minutes and save him for the playoffs. This year he took on a big burden during the regular season, and it wore him down.

We badly need to sign a young, athletic, scoring swingman to take the pressure off Manu. That would allow him to concentrate on being the closer and killing teams in the 4th Q, a role he has excelled at for the last few years, and his greatest asset to the team when healthy.

[Emanuel20]

Spurs fans and their excuses. If you watch game 3, you'll see that although he was hot from the outside, the threat of the drive was the reason he was able to get enough separation to launch. He wasn't that hurt. Spurs fans just want excuses. I call bullshit.

You might want to re-watch game 3, he was hot from the 3 pt …5 in the 1st half and that’s 18 pts, and he had 22 in the 1st half and this shows that he did not drive much or if he did he missed. In the second half, they had some easy fast breaks in the 3rd quarter and he was able to put one or two in. And the other points came from the free throw line.

Game 3 for Manu was good because of his 3 pt shot. That is it!
No lift, no explosion, no nothing.

[adidas11]

Yes, Manu was definitely a shadow of his true self in this series. He was worn down, injured, and had no lift in his legs. That is why he couldn't finish around the basket.

But as I've said on this message board, this is part of the challenge when a team is trying to defend their title. They have to deal with the physical wear and tear of making it all the way to the finals the previous season, the challenge of taking everyone's best shot from Day 1 opening tip off for the entire regular season, and then have the fortitude to make it all the way through the playoffs and win another title.

That is specifically why the Spurs have never been able to excel from a very good team (that can win a title here and there) to a great team (that can take everyone's best shot, and still win). The last great team that we had in this league were the Lakers from 2000 - 2002. All NBA champions afterwards have come no where near the level that team was at.

[Emanuel20]

Yes, Manu was definitely a shadow of his true self in this series. He was worn down, injured, and had no lift in his legs. That is why he couldn't finish around the basket.

But as I've said on this message board, this is part of the challenge when a team is trying to defend their title. They have to deal with the physical wear and tear of making it all the way to the finals the previous season, the challenge of taking everyone's best shot from Day 1 opening tip off for the entire regular season, and then have the fortitude to make it all the way through the playoffs and win another title.

That is specifically why the Spurs have never been able to excel from a very good team (that can win a title here and there) to a great team (that can take everyone's best shot, and still win). The last great team that we had in this league were the Lakers from 2000 - 2002. All NBA champions afterwards have come no where near the level that team was at.

That’s fine, there is still time for YOU to consider us a great team….b/s as you know, we value your opinion very much!

Faker fan!:bang

[TheManFromAcme]

I'll give you that. Manu's injuries defintely changed the complexity of the series.
Manu is FAR better than what he showed in the series.

[1Parker1]

I cannot repeat it enough. I cannot stand LakerFans and I hope that now the series is over, they will all go back to their holes or Laker Forums.

[1Parker1]

I'll give you that. Manu's injuries defintely changed the complexity of the series.
Manu is FAR better than what he showed in the series.


:lmao Wow, a Lakerfan who gets it. I'm shocked.

I can't understand why this is so hard for so many of your fellow fans to see and acknowledge.

[The_Game]

He wasn't. Manu isn't on Kobe's level, but at 12 ppg, something was wrong. He did say in some interviews that while he wasn't in pain, he didn't have his lift. If Kobe scored 12 ppg and you lost in 5 games, I think Laker Fan might be smart enough to know something was wrong with him.

Manu is no Kobe

Manu averaging 12PPG is not a shock. The guy is inconsistant and isn't a superstar

Kobe on the other hand.........

[Cry Havoc]

Yes, Manu was definitely a shadow of his true self in this series. He was worn down, injured, and had no lift in his legs. That is why he couldn't finish around the basket.

But as I've said on this message board, this is part of the challenge when a team is trying to defend their title. They have to deal with the physical wear and tear of making it all the way to the finals the previous season, the challenge of taking everyone's best shot from Day 1 opening tip off for the entire regular season, and then have the fortitude to make it all the way through the playoffs and win another title.

That is specifically why the Spurs have never been able to excel from a very good team (that can win a title here and there) to a great team (that can take everyone's best shot, and still win). The last great team that we had in this league were the Lakers from 2000 - 2002. All NBA champions afterwards have come no where near the level that team was at.


4 Titles in 9 years = good.

Gotta love Lakers math.

I guess that means the Kobe-Shaq 3-ring circus was just an average team then.