Big Man Needed: The Alternative Draft and Offseason View

[Mr. Body]

Much of the board's generated posts around Marcus Bryant's Draft Profiles have been around wing and SG prospects, with a PG thrown in (Chalmers). This is not remiss, there is no doubting the team badly needs scoring, youth, and athleticism to refresh its perimeter players. Rush, Lee, Batum, CDR are all good prospects...

But are we barking up the wrong tree? Since the beginning of the Duncan era, for more than a decade now, the prevailing team philosophy for defense required two shot-blockers on the floor at all times, or as much as possible. When Robinson retired we shifted to Rasho Nesterovic and then added Nazr Mohammed. When we got rid of those guys, we at least had Francisco Elson. But then, when we traded Elson off, suddenly we only have one guy of any real shot-blocking threat left: Duncan himself. (I discount Horry, who is (was) more an opportunistic shot-blocker.) One of the reasons for a gradual decline in defensive prowess team-wide could be a lack of another guy guarding the rim.

Now, with the loss of Splitter, himself not known as a shot-blocker but at least having the length and timing to have the potential (1 block/game is enough), where do we turn? The roster is littered with big men who are fairly immobile and do not help in this department. The team may consider themselves backed in to a corner here and required to select a big man with their first pick. I'm not so sure they'll pick a wing.

What are the possibilities?

Robertas Javtokas -- don't think there is any contact there any more.

Francisco Elson -- he is a free agent and for all his addled charm, serves in this regard, has the length to perhaps bother Odom or Gasol.

Drafting -- Koufos, Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Hibbert

Any ideas here?

[kobyz]

it's sucks that Splitter not come, he could be all that we need

[Pistons < Spurs]

The Pistons also need to get a decent big, and I've not been real encouraged by who looks to be available in this draft. There are some guys who appear to be fairly intriguing prospects down the road, but they're the far from sure things, and none of them are ready to contribute now.


I know some of you Spur fans follow the D league, and I was wondering if there's any talent there worth looking into?

[Mr. Body]

The Pistons also need to get a decent big, and I've not been real encouraged by who looks to be available in this draft. There are some guys who appear to be fairly intriguing prospects down the road, but they're the far from sure things, and none of them are ready to contribute now.


I know some of you Spur fans follow the D league, and I was wondering if there's any talent there worth looking into?

Do you guys need a PF or a C? There seem to be scads of them in the draft, but I agree it's hard to be sold on any. Cs are littering the board, but almost none of them are sure things. Talking about the second half of the first on (and Brooks Lopez is likely overrated), where most of them will be. I see perhaps two guys who can contribute at C fairly quickly (Hibbert, R. Lopez) simply because they can rebound and block shots as plug-ins. The rest are question marks.

For PF there are good prospects near the end of the round, guys like Hickson and DJ White, and Dorsey at least can bang around. But like you say, there's not a lot of proven quantity there.

I've heard Dumars has promised DJ. White. Anything about this?

The last two years have generated at least one very nice PF in the second round (Carl Landry, Paul Millsap). So who is the undersized workhorse people will overlook this year?

[SenorSpur]

Much of the board's generated posts around Marcus Bryant's Draft Profiles have been around wing and SG prospects, with a PG thrown in (Chalmers). This is not remiss, there is no doubting the team badly needs scoring, youth, and athleticism to refresh its perimeter players. Rush, Lee, Batum, CDR are all good prospects...

But are we barking up the wrong tree? Since the beginning of the Duncan era, for more than a decade now, the prevailing team philosophy for defense required two shot-blockers on the floor at all times, or as much as possible. When Robinson retired we shifted to Rasho Nesterovic and then added Nazr Mohammed. When we got rid of those guys, we at least had Francisco Elson. But then, when we traded Elson off, suddenly we only have one guy of any real shot-blocking threat left: Duncan himself. (I discount Horry, who is (was) more an opportunistic shot-blocker.) One of the reasons for a gradual decline in defensive prowess team-wide could be a lack of another guy guarding the rim.

Now, with the loss of Splitter, himself not known as a shot-blocker but at least having the length and timing to have the potential (1 block/game is enough), where do we turn? The roster is littered with big men who are fairly immobile and do not help in this department. The team may consider themselves backed in to a corner here and required to select a big man with their first pick. I'm not so sure they'll pick a wing.

What are the possibilities?

Robertas Javtokas -- don't think there is any contact there any more.

Francisco Elson -- he is a free agent and for all his addled charm, serves in this regard, has the length to perhaps bother Odom or Gasol.

Drafting -- Koufos, Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Hibbert

Any ideas here?

Two words:
Desgana Diop

[Mr. Body]

Two words:
Desgana Diop

Thumbs up to that. MLE to Diop (probably necessary for the whole thing); get your wing in the draft.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Do you guys need a PF or a C? There seem to be scads of them in the draft, but I agree it's hard to be sold on any. Cs are littering the board, but almost none of them are sure things. Talking about the second half of the first on (and Brooks Lopez is likely overrated), where most of them will be. I see perhaps two guys who can contribute at C fairly quickly (Hibbert, R. Lopez) simply because they can rebound and block shots as plug-ins. The rest are question marks.

For PF there are good prospects near the end of the round, guys like Hickson and DJ White, and Dorsey at least can bang around. But like you say, there's not a lot of proven quantity there.

I've heard Dumars has promised DJ. White. Anything about this?

The last two years have generated at least one very nice PF in the second round (Carl Landry, Paul Millsap). So who is the undersized workhorse people will overlook this year?

C is a bigger need.

Dice is great, I love the guy. But he's no C. And he may be retiring. That leaves us w/ just Chiekh Samb who's long, thin and extremely raw. He's probably still in the D league this year.

A lot depends on what Dumars does in the off season regarding Sheed.

The assumption is that he's getting traded. Teams will want him for his expiring contract.

What may be more fantasy than reality is the hope of getting someone like Brand or Okafor in a trade. Sheed has the LB connection w/ the Bobcats aswell as the whole North Carolina thing.

Max may in my view also be shipped. He's a dynamic player at times, but consistency hurts him. Being undersized as he is, I don't think he's a legitimate starter. And he's also in the way of Amir Johnson who the organization has high hopes for. There's no minutes for him being stuck as the 3rd PF.

We've heard the draftexpress claim that we have a promise to DJ White...but there's been no other news regarding that. I know we were very high last year on DeVon Hardin before he pulled out of the draft.

Hardin might be the most ready and best fit for us at PF. And Jason Thompson might be the best available C. But I'm not thrilled with either of them.

[kobyz]

we have to get another big to help Duncan against: Gasol/Bynum, O'Neal/Stoudemire, Chandler/West, Spiltter was perfect for this - it's 100% that is not come?

[Mulletino]

Bring Ron Artest or Rasheed Wallace

[SenorSpur]

Thumbs up to that. MLE to Diop (probably necessary for the whole thing); get your wing in the draft.

...and a big :tu to you, Mr. Body, for addressing this question to the masses. The decline in the vaunted Spurs defense is not only evident to many of us who watch the games religiously, but also can be measured by a drop in the one key statistic that Pop has generally focused on to measure his defensive effectiveness - Opp FG%.

The Spurs ranked 5th in the league in opposition FG% this season:

BOS - .419
HOU - .433
DET - .437
DAL - .443
SAS - .444

While this may not be too terribly bad, the Spurs have typcially hovered around the 43% - 41% range during the heyday of the Twin Towers.

The Splitter situation makes this weakness in the paint even more of an issue. I still favor them getting another wing in FA. However, if the Spurs could come out of this offseason with both Diop and a surprise rookie swingman (i.e. Rush or Batum) that would be a good pair.

Now I'm going to get greedy and wonder if they could split their MLE between Diop and Pietrus? IF Diop is out of their price range, I wouldn't have an issue with them bringing back Elson. Of course at that price, I would expect Pietrus to soon follow him too.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think you go with a 4th scorer over a shotblocking big with your MLE. Diop would be nice as a reserve big, but if you can get a 22 year old scoring SG, you do it at this point. Too much rides on Manu to produce at a high level. This regular season he had to shoulder a huge amount of the load during a stretch in the regular season and that was part of the reason his ass was worn out by the WCF, IMO.

Diop's averaging 15 minutes a night as a 26 year old big. He gives you very little scoring. Plus the game is moving away from his style.

Javtokas is not a bad idea. If he'd come over for 2 years at the LLE, I think you have to consider it.

[tav1]

I agree that a second shot blocker would be a great help, but I think a 4th scorer on the wing is more pressing. Beside, we have Mahinmi and Thomas (in all liklihood) so I think we should see a little improvement. I'd rather give Mahinmi a chance to prove himself than sign someone like Elson. Floor time will only help him.

[spursfan98]

...and a big :tu to you, Mr. Body, for addressing this question to the masses. The decline in the vaunted Spurs defense is not only evident to many of us who watch the games religiously, but also can be measured by a drop in the one key statistic that Pop has generally focused on to measure his defensive effectiveness - Opp FG%.

The Spurs ranked 5th in the league in opposition FG% this season:

BOS - .419
HOU - .433
DET - .437
DAL - .443
SAS - .444

While this may not be too terribly bad, the Spurs have typcially hovered around the 43% - 41% range during the heyday of the Twin Towers.

The Splitter situation makes this weakness in the paint even more of an issue. I still favor them getting another wing in FA. However, if the Spurs could come out of this offseason with both Diop and a surprise rookie swingman (i.e. Rush or Batum) that would be a good pair.

Now I'm going to get greedy and wonder if they could split their MLE between Diop and Pietrus? IF Diop is out of their price range, I wouldn't have an issue with them bringing back Elson. Of course at that price, I would expect Pietrus to soon follow him too.

Pietrus and Diop should be at the top of the list. Pietrus is more important but if we cant get both id be happy with either of them. It depends on who we draft but getting elson back is a bad idea. he wasnt very good and hes not young and thats what we need

[spursfan98]

Also we should try to trade oberto and bonner together. i know its not a great package but if we add splitters rights and maybe a 2nd round future pick we could get someone who actually can hold on to the ball and block shots

[mrspurs]

ive said it all along......we need another big to help timmy....teams pretty much had their will with us in the paint...ive seen mahinmi play alot....he isnt the answer at all...maybe after another season....we need help now....or all our shooters will make no difference against all the youth that scored on us in the paint.....find a big .........go spurs go

[td4mvp21]

Diop would be ideal. I think the Spurs should really attempt to sign him. He is a great shot blocker, good post defender, and more mobile than your average center. I say keep KT, I like what he brings to the table.

However, what about for small ball? Unfortunately, the Spurs will be forced to play it at multiple points in the season. We need a very mobile big or a long SF to do that. I'm sick of playing Finley or Udoka (6'5'' players) at power forward.

[SenorSpur]

I think you go with a 4th scorer over a shotblocking big with your MLE. Diop would be nice as a reserve big, but if you can get a 22 year old scoring SG, you do it at this point. Too much rides on Manu to produce at a high level. This regular season he had to shoulder a huge amount of the load during a stretch in the regular season and that was part of the reason his ass was worn out by the WCF, IMO.

I agree completely. I just wonder that, because Pop has such a man-crush on Manu, if he'd even trust another wing player enough to give him minutes and opportunities - especially a rookie. Still, I agree with you. Manu was dogged and ragged and the Spurs had no Plan B option who could provide some of those same skills. Breakdown a defense, get to the rack, drive and kick, hit the outside j.


Diop's averaging 15 minutes a night as a 26 year old big. He gives you very little scoring. Plus the game is moving away from his style.

Based on the arrival of the Fakers this season and them having Bynum come back next sesason, their frontline will be even taller and more imposing. Let's also not forget Oden coming back from injury in Portland. The Spurs have to match that type of size with another big of their own. Diop would give the team the necessary size, defense, and rebounding to combat such a frontline. I don't ever want to see Duncan outmanned again going up against 2 or 3 oppsoing 7-ft players. Guys like Oberto and KT are physical but they cannot match that type of size.

[Spur-Addict]

I agree completely. I just wonder that, because Pop has such a man-crush on Manu, if he'd even trust another wing player enough to give him minutes and opportunities - especially a rookie. Still, I agree with you. Manu was dogged and ragged and the Spurs had no Plan B option who could provide some of those same skills. Breakdown a defense, get to the rack, drive and kick, hit the outside j.



Based on the arrival of the Fakers this season and them having Bynum come back next sesason, their frontline will be even taller and more imposing. Let's also not forget Oden coming back from injury in Portland. The Spurs have to match that type of size with another big of their own. Diop would give the team the necessary size, defense, and rebounding to combat such a frontline. I don't ever want to see Duncan outmanned again going up against 2 or 3 oppsoing 7-ft players. Guys like Oberto and KT are physical but they cannot match that type of size.

EXACTLY, we do need scoring as well. They just better address both, PERIOD. Although we couldn't score at times, rebounding killed us. Gotta protect the paint and glass. We'll find someone who can score, there are always people like that in the league.

[SenorSpur]

EXACTLY, we do need scoring as well. They just better address both, PERIOD. Although we couldn't score at times, rebounding killed us. Gotta protect the paint and glass. We'll find someone who can score, there are always people like that in the league.

Because these are both priorities, there should be no reason the FO doesn't accomplish BOTH.

[MoSpur]

What about Ian?

[SlovenianGuy]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Kwame Brown and Andrea Bargnani.

Kwame Brown is athletic and could be the other half of the twin towers if he decided to play with some effort. He has more upside than all of the Spurs' centers in the last few year and shouldn't be too expensive, but signing him is a huge gamble.

Andrea Bargnani is actually pretty decent defender when it comes to guarding his own man, but his help defense is non existent. If he could make open shots he might be just the right player to play together with Tim. On the other hand it's clear (at least for me) that Andrea and Bosh can not play with each other. The problem is that the Raptors might not be ready to trade him before they give him another chance to prove he can contribute.

[Spur-Addict]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Kwame Brown and Andrea Bargnani.
Kwame Brown is athletic and could be the other half of the twin towers if he decided to play with some effort. He has more upside than all of the Spurs' centers in the last few year and shouldn't be too expensive, but signing him is a huge gamble.

Andrea Bargnani is actually pretty decent defender when it comes to guarding his own man, but his help defense is non existent. If he could make open shots he might be just the right player to play together with Tim. On the other hand it's clear (at least for me) that Andrea and Bosh can not play with each other. The problem is that the Raptors might not be ready to trade him before they give him another chance to prove he can contribute.

Don't be suprised, you shouldn't be. Kwame is like the Big kid from the boys and girls club, he can only dominate the little people (PHX in playoffs). I'd prefer Fran back before Kwame. Barg is soft, and he couldn't produce in the east playoffs against orlando. ORLANDO!.....:lmao ...and they really needed him.

[Bruno]

Sign Patrick O'Bryant and Kurt Thomas. Spurs should spend the MLE and their first round draft pick on perimeter players.

[AA2120]

josh duncan from xavier in the 2nd round...

[ChumpDumper]

The Pistons also need to get a decent big, and I've not been real encouraged by who looks to be available in this draft. There are some guys who appear to be fairly intriguing prospects down the road, but they're the far from sure things, and none of them are ready to contribute now.


I know some of you Spur fans follow the D league, and I was wondering if there's any talent there worth looking into?There was only one true center left that played at a noteworthy level after Lance Allred was called up by Cleveland. Chris Alexander actually has better size and defense than Allred, but his offense is pretty rudimentary. Pretty much IR/spot-minute material, but if you don't have already have a seven footer over 260, he'd be worth a look.

[ChumpDumper]

Sign Patrick O'Bryant and Kurt Thomas. Spurs should spend the MLE and their firs round draft pick on perimeter players.Not that bad of a plan. It's too bad O'Bryant couldn't spend any time in Austin, but the failure of a center to stick in a Don Nelson rotation is more of a neutral signal than a negative.

Buy low.

[Spur-Addict]

Not that bad of a plan. It's too bad O'Bryant couldn't spend any time in Austin, but the failure of a center to stick in a Don Nelson rotation is more of a neutral signal than a negative.

Buy low.

Bad plan. O'B=Soft

[ChumpDumper]

Bad plan. O'B=SoftEh, he'd be cheap and wouldn't be called on to do too much with all the other big men on the team. If there is anything worth reclaiming the Spurs could find out pretty quickly. Dude isn't even 22 yet.

[SenorSpur]

I'd take Elson over O'Bryant - anytime

[spursfan98]

There was only one true center left that played at a noteworthy level after Lance Allred was called up by Cleveland. Chris Alexander actually has better size and defense than Allred, but his offense is pretty rudimentary. Pretty much IR/spot-minute material, but if you don't have already have a seven footer over 260, he'd be worth a look.

Anthony Fuqua from Austin is a beast and went 2 UTSA

[ChumpDumper]

What is your basis for these final conclusions on the career of O'Bryant?

[ChumpDumper]

Anthony Fuqua from Austin is a beast and went 2 UTSA:lol He's a really nice guy, but not NBA material. He needs to try to make some money overseas.

[kobyz]

we base this role on Splitter and now we screw, we need to change our plane

[K-State Spur]

Eh, he'd be cheap and wouldn't be called on to do too much with all the other big men on the team. If there is anything worth reclaiming the Spurs could find out pretty quickly. Dude isn't even 22 yet.

what's to be reclaimed?

the guy's entire hype was based around a hot 10 game stretch in the MVC and 2 decent tournament games. It's not like he dominated at a mid-major and just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

[spursfan98]

:lol He's a really nice guy, but not NBA material. He needs to try to make some money overseas.

I watched him every game in college. I no he is not 2 great but he is awesome we should give him a shot in the summer league

[ChumpDumper]

what's to be reclaimed?

the guy's entire hype was based around a hot 10 game stretch in the MVC and 2 decent tournament games.Yeah, and someone else bought high -- not us. I don't know why we are acting like the Spurs have current All-Stars available to them this summer.

[ChumpDumper]

I watched him every game in college. I no he is not 2 great but he is awesome we should give him a shot in the summer leagueI watched him every game in Austin. He actually worked out in the Spurs facility last summer. They know what they had with him and traded him for Darvin Ham.

I'm telling you I was really sad to see him go -- he was the last original Toro -- but he seems to have plateaued as a basketball player. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a summer league squad somewhere, but I would be surprised to see him make an NBA squad.

[Bruno]

I've liked what I've seen from O'Bryant in D-League this year. He is more interesting than other bigs available for the LLE or less.

[Spur-Addict]

Yeah, and someone else bought high -- not us. I don't know why we are acting like the Spurs have current All-Stars available to them this summer.

All we are saying is that there are better options out there most likely. If s*** hits the fan and nothing pans out, then yeah, I guess we'll have no choice. But until that happens, i'll pass on Patty O'Braynt

[ChumpDumper]

All we are saying is that there are better options out there most likely.Realistically who? The frontcourt rotation is already pretty crowded. Often it can be quite difficult to find a young, established player willing to take a reduced role on a team like the Spurs.

[spursfan98]

I watched him every game in Austin. He actually worked out in the Spurs facility last summer. They know what they had with him and traded him for Darvin Ham.

I'm telling you I was really sad to see him go -- he was the last original Toro -- but he seems to have plateaued as a basketball player. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a summer league squad somewhere, but I would be surprised to see him make an NBA squad.

Horrible trade. darvin sux. he is way 2 old to be playing in the dleague

[Spur-Addict]

Realistically who? The frontcourt rotation is already pretty crowded. Often it can be quite difficult to find a young, established player willing to take a reduced role on a team like the Spurs.

This has yet to be proven.

[ChumpDumper]

Horrible trade. darvin sux. he is way 2 old to be playing in the dleagueIt worked out pretty well. He was more consistent than Fuqua. The "bad" trade that kept the Toros from winning the championship was Cheyne Gadson for Josh Gross (effectively speaking - it wasn't a one-for-one trade) -- but that was strictly because Gross has considerable upside.

[timvp]

Much of the board's generated posts around Marcus Bryant's Draft Profiles have been around wing and SG prospects, with a PG thrown in (Chalmers). This is not remiss, there is no doubting the team badly needs scoring, youth, and athleticism to refresh its perimeter players. Rush, Lee, Batum, CDR are all good prospects...

But are we barking up the wrong tree? Since the beginning of the Duncan era, for more than a decade now, the prevailing team philosophy for defense required two shot-blockers on the floor at all times, or as much as possible. When Robinson retired we shifted to Rasho Nesterovic and then added Nazr Mohammed. When we got rid of those guys, we at least had Francisco Elson. But then, when we traded Elson off, suddenly we only have one guy of any real shot-blocking threat left: Duncan himself. (I discount Horry, who is (was) more an opportunistic shot-blocker.) One of the reasons for a gradual decline in defensive prowess team-wide could be a lack of another guy guarding the rim.

Now, with the loss of Splitter, himself not known as a shot-blocker but at least having the length and timing to have the potential (1 block/game is enough), where do we turn? The roster is littered with big men who are fairly immobile and do not help in this department. The team may consider themselves backed in to a corner here and required to select a big man with their first pick. I'm not so sure they'll pick a wing.

What are the possibilities?

Robertas Javtokas -- don't think there is any contact there any more.

Francisco Elson -- he is a free agent and for all his addled charm, serves in this regard, has the length to perhaps bother Odom or Gasol.

Drafting -- Koufos, Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Hibbert

Any ideas here?Whether or not the Spurs need a bigman depends on what they think about Ian Mahinmi. If they think he's ready to produce, he can fill what you are looking for. Mahinmi will basically be the team's rookie big, so there's not too much need for another one .... unless the Spurs believe he's a couple years away from producing.

I was concerned about Mahinmi's lack of blocked shots in D-League but he started blocking more and more shots once the games got more important. In the last two championship games, he blocked five shots in each game. He definitely has the athleticism needed to be the shotblocker and rebounder the Spurs need.

Now, if Mahinmi is deemed not ready, then drafting a big in the first round comes into play -- but it must be the right big. The big I think the Spurs need is a shotblocker who can rebound and is also mobile enough to step out on the court to defend the quicker power forwards. And the player has to be able to step in now and contribute. Basically, the skillset Splitter was going to bring to the table.

Of the players you listed, I don't see Koufos, Ibaka, Ajinca or Hibbert fitting into the profile. Koufos, Ibaka and Ajinca are all long-term projects and I don't think either Koufos or Hibbert are mobile enough. You pair those two players with Duncan and the frontcourt would be too slow.

The two bigs who could be available around where the Spurs draft that could fill the needs are Robin Lopez and Joey Dorsey. This half of the Lopez twins is pretty mobile and is the better shotblocker. Dorsey is almost exactly a poor man's Ben Wallace. Neither one could start anytime soon but off the bench they'd give the Spurs the shotblocking and energy they oftentimes lack from the bigman position next to Duncan.

Another reason why the Spurs would draft a big would be to replace Mahinmi at Austin. Obviously, that would mean they aren't interested in any of the other available players. Instead of trading away the pick like they usually do, the two bigs who I think are perfectly built for the D-League experience are DeVon Hardin and Jason Thompson. Both seem like they could be one full season in the D-League away from being ready to contribute in the NBA -- while at the same time eventually give the Spurs what they need.

Regarding DeSagana Diop, I find it tough to convince myself that he's worth the MLE. I really like his defense but he's such a horrible offensive player that he might negate much of his defensive work. The Spurs can't really afford to take a step back offensively, especially since it was their offense that let them down against the Lakers. I'll have to think about Diop some more but his offense really is pitiful and is the reason why the Mavs basically gave him away and the the reason why the Nets hardly played him. Perhaps he could work as long as the Spurs bring in that much talked about fourth scorer . . .

Overall, I agree with what you said about the Spurs needing shotblocking. Duncan is a very good defender but there will come a time where he can't defend the entire paint. He needs someone on his side.

I do disagree with your stance that the trading of Elson affected this need. Elson wasn't blocking shots when he was here. He looked like he should block shots but he had stopped blocking shots. In fact, Horry and Thomas both blocked more shots per minute than Elson. Even Oberto's landlocked azz wasn't too far away. The need for a shotblocker predates Elson and basically goes all the way back to Robinson's retirement. Rasho was a good shotblocker but he wasn't really the weakside shotblocker that the Spurs need next to Duncan. Nazr was the closest thing the Spurs have had to a weakside shotblocker since Robinson's retirement.

Best case scenario is that Mahinmi is ready to rumble and the Spurs can set their sights elsewhere. If not, mobile shotblocking bigman will be right up there in importance next to fourth scorer.

[ChumpDumper]

This has yet to be proven.Well, you've got Duncan, Oberto, Bonner and Ian will get some burn -- Thomas is a good bet to come back.

Which established center will be willing to try to fit himself in there?

[SlovenianGuy]

Don't be suprised, you shouldn't be. Kwame is like the Big kid from the boys and girls club, he can only dominate the little people (PHX in playoffs). I'd prefer Fran back before Kwame. Barg is soft, and he couldn't produce in the east playoffs against orlando. ORLANDO!.....:lmao ...and they really needed him.

I agree with you that Elson and Bargs are both bad. The difference between them is that Elson is 9 years older than Bargnani, which means that Andrea will probably play better in the next season.

You said that Kwame did dominate Phoenix. Now tell me if Oberto or Elson are able to dominate anyone? High school team maybe?

With Kwame and Andrea I'm not trying to find a new Shaq, but someone who could be affordable and better than what Spurs have at the moment.

[spursfan98]

we should be able to teach kwame a damn thing about basketball

[SlovenianGuy]

Now, if Mahinmi is deemed not ready, then drafting a big in the first round comes into play -- but it must be the right big. The big I think the Spurs need is a shotblocker who can rebound and is also mobile enough to step out on the court to defend the quicker power forwards. And the player has to be able to step in now and contribute. Basically, the skillset Splitter was going to bring to the table.

If Mahinmi isn't ready yet, I don't see the Spurs drafting another young big, beacuse he'll probably need a year or two to develop as well.

[objective]

I agree with timvp in the disagreement over Elson.

Elson wasn't a shotblocker. He should have been, but he wasn't. He went a lot of games of 20+ minutes in his career in Denver and with the Spurs without a single block.

Mahinmi is where it's at. He has to be allowed to fail, fall, pick himself back up, dust himself off, and fail again until he gets it right and his athleticism and raw skills overtake his inexperience.

And there's more to it than just Mahinmi blocking shots.

Mahinmi on the court with an athletic wing will do wonders . . . for Tony Parker.

Parker has no safety valve on the court, no horses to run with.

Everyone oohs and aahs at Parker being a one-man fastbreak, but that's a bad thing. Parker needs other guys out there with him, and in the halfcourt Parker needs someone to lob to for easy dunks, provided Parker doesn't throw them all out of bounds like he does in all-star games. Mahinmi helps there.

Mahinmi could also mean the return of the 4-5 alley-oop Duncan used to throw to Robinson a couple of times a game. That's been extinct for 5 years now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Signing a young big to play in Austin next season makes sense.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'd love to have Patrick O'Bryant on the team. He hasn't really proved much yet but I think he deserves another shot.

[ChumpDumper]

I agree with timvp in the disagreement over Elson.

Elson wasn't a shotblocker. He should have been, but he wasn't. He went a lot of games of 20+ minutes in his career in Denver and with the Spurs without a single block.

Mahinmi is where it's at. He has to be allowed to fail, fall, pick himself back up, dust himself off, and fail again until he gets it right and his athleticism and raw skills overtake his inexperience.

And there's more to it than just Mahinmi blocking shots.

Mahinmi on the court with an athletic wing will do wonders . . . for Tony Parker.

Parker has no safety valve on the court, no horses to run with.

Everyone oohs and aahs at Parker being a one-man fastbreak, but that's a bad thing. Parker needs other guys out there with him, and in the halfcourt Parker needs someone to lob to for easy dunks, provided Parker doesn't throw them all out of bounds like he does in all-star games. Mahinmi helps there.That was actually Elson's best attribute - his speed in transition. He helped to put tremendous pressure on opposing defenses and helped thwart their fastbreaks on the other end of the court by getting back quickly. It will be great if Ian can duplicate that, and drafting or signing another big man who can do that would be even better.

[Spur-Addict]

Well, you've got Duncan, Oberto, Bonner and Ian will get some burn -- Thomas is a good bet to come back.
Which established center will be willing to try to fit himself in there?

If you are telling me that Bonner SHOULD be back then i'd have to disagree. If you are saying that it is PROBABLE based on the fact that he HAS a contract most won't want, then i'd agree. Thomas ISN'T signed, so are we going on probabilities of someone with no binding agreement? Yes. It's likely, but who knows what may happen. Ian? I'd say so. So, as of now it stands, Tim, Oberto, Ian, and Bonner. Bonner didn't get much burn this year, I wonder why? Hmmm...He isn't exactly a stellar defender for someone who can only shoot on spot ups. For three Mil, that's sounds like a nice waste of money. That's alot like Horry, this year, his D was less than stellar, so, he saw alot of the pine (Hilton Armstrong even killed him). The only bigs that saw time are ones who can defend, and they (aside from Tim of course) were killed on the boards. So, I do want another big who is long and tall, but, they cannot be a defensive liability. Patty is a defensive liability. He isn't even consistent on the O end. Just because we have space for another big and time is limited doesn't mean we put a bum there. We can't get a star, that we all know. But, we certainly do not want a liability. I'd rather draft someone who is defensively ready, as opposed to giving Patty Mayonaise a shot.

[ChumpDumper]

If you are telling me that Bonner SHOULD be back then i'd have to disagree. If you are saying that it is PROBABLE based on the fact that he HAS a contract most won't want, then i'd agree. Thomas ISN'T signed, so we are going on probabilities of someone with no binding agreement? Yes. It's likely, but who knows what may happen. Ian? I'd say so. So, as of now it stands, Tim, Oberto, Ian, and Bonner. Bonner didn't get much burn this year, I wonder why? Hmmm...He isn't exactly a stellar defender for someone who can only shoot on spot ups. For three Mil, that's sounds like a nice waste of money. That's alot like Horry, this year, his D was less than stellar, so, he saw alot of the pine (Hilton Armstrong even killed him). The only bigs that saw time are ones who can defend, and they (aside from Tim of course) were killed on the boards. So, I do want another big who is long and tall, but, they cannot be a defensive liability. Patty is a defensive liability. He isn't even consistent on the O end. Just because we have space for another big and time is limited doesn't mean we put a bum there. We can't get a star, that we all know. But, we certainly do not want a liability. I'd rather draft someone who is defensively ready, as opposed to giving Patty Mayonaise a shot.:lol

How do you even know someone is defensively ready? Who is definitely defensively ready in this draft?

And if you have watched every minute of O'Bryant's career, congratulations. Somehow I doubt it.

Go ahead and tell me who's coming here to play less for nothing, though. This I want to hear.

[td4mvp21]

Even Oberto's landlocked azz wasn't too far away.

:lol

[Spur-Addict]

:lol

How do you even know someone is defensively ready? Who is definitely defensively ready in this draft?
And if you have watched every minute of O'Bryant's career, congratulations. Somehow I doubt it.

Go ahead and tell me who's coming here to play less for nothing, though. This I want to hear.

Lets put it this way, "Players who are better defensively suited with size and length" (As opposed to Miss Mayo)

Well for starters, i'd say Speights and Plaistid are better suited defensively. I'd rather draft a Man. I'm sorry, those are my preferences.

[Bruno]

The two bigs who could be available around where the Spurs draft that could fill the needs are Robin Lopez and Joey Dorsey. This half of the Lopez twins is pretty mobile and is the better shotblocker. Dorsey is almost exactly a poor man's Ben Wallace. Neither one could start anytime soon but off the bench they'd give the Spurs the shotblocking and energy they oftentimes lack from the bigman position next to Duncan.


Dorsey size is only 6'7" (although his wingspan is 7'2").
I don't really care about measurement but some GMs do and it could make him available at 45 for Spurs second pick of the draft.

[ChumpDumper]

Plaistid is never going to be an NBA shot blocker. Speights I like ok though his rebound numbers aren't super -- but he'll probably be gone before the Spurs pick.

Is that all?

Anyway, it's just an idea. Sorry Patrick stole your girlfriend or ran over your dog....

[Spur-Addict]

Plaistid is never going to be an NBA shot blocker. Speights I like ok though his rebound numbers aren't super -- but he'll probably be gone before the Spurs pick.

Is that all?

I notice you like the word Probably. It'll probably rain today because that's what the news said. M.Speights probably won't be there b/c Draft.net said so. Look, i'd rather draft Nathan Jawai before picking him up. Additionally, shot blocking doesn't equate to good Defense my man. Go ask dennis Rodman and Charles Oakley.

[ChumpDumper]

I notice you like the word Probably. It'll probably rain today because that's what the news said. M.Speights probably won't be there b/c Draft.net said so. Look, i'd rather draft Nathan Jawai before picking him up. Additionally, shot blocking doesn't equate to good Defense my man. Go ask dennis Rodman and Charles Oakley.I think the Spurs need more shotblocking, and I think there is a greater need for swingmen in the draft. That I'm considering picking up a project big man for the minimum pretty much sums up my thought on this issue.

Look I'd rather draft Michael Beasley, but he will probably be off the board by the time the Spurs pick.

If you have different information about his draft position, I'd love to hear it.

[timvp]

Dorsey size is only 6'7" (although his wingspan is 7'2").
I don't really care about measurement but some GMs do and it could make him available at 45 for Spurs second pick of the draft.I saw that after my post. 6-foot-7 is pretty damn short. I was hoping for at least 6-foot-8. Add in his bad offense and horrible free throw shooting and now Dorsey doesn't look like that good of a pick. His measurement make me think he's going to be more Donnell Harvey than anyone.

[Spur-Addict]

I think the Spurs need more shotblocking, and I think there is a greater need for swingmen in the draft.

Look I'd rather draft Michael Beasley, but he will probably be off the board by the time the Spurs pick.

If you have different information about his draft position, I'd love to hear it.

Big difference between Beasley and Speights my good man. One doesn't have a chance of slipping where one does. Also, someone who is 6'10-6'11 like Speights or Plaistid have good wingspans. As a matter of fact, they both do. So, just b/c someone isn't a wire doesn't mean that they can't block shots. If we went by all the reports then certain players drafted really late would never make any sort of impact. Or, they'd never develop certain parts of their game. I don't have to go into specifics about that b/c you are a smart person. it's also funny how some players have "possibility of becoming a great shot blocker", where other players with the similar qualities cannot. Based off reports (Comparison:Speights to Plaistid) Defensively of course. Also, how can you blk a shot when pinned underneath the rim? If O'B put on weight i'd love to have him. My only issue is his weight. To defend that post, you'll need weight. Otherwise, he'll be primarily an off the ball defender (weakside). We need more than that.

[K-State Spur]

Yeah, and someone else bought high -- not us. I don't know why we are acting like the Spurs have current All-Stars available to them this summer.

I get that, and I'm fine buying low - provided that it's quite low - on him.

Just saying that the next time he has prolonged success will be the first time - at any level.

[spursfan98]

I think the Spurs need more shotblocking, and I think there is a greater need for swingmen in the draft. That I'm considering picking up a project big man for the minimum pretty much sums up my thought on this issue.

Look I'd rather draft Michael Beasley, but he will probably be off the board by the time the Spurs pick.

If you have different information about his draft position, I'd love to hear it.

Ha... Michael beasley probobly will be off the board by the time the heat pick.

[ChumpDumper]

Big difference between Beasley and Speights my good man. One doesn't have a chance of slipping where one does. Also, someone who is 6'10-6'11 like Speights or Plaistid have good wingspans.As a matter of fact, they both do. So, just b/c someone isn't a wire doesn't mean that they can't block shots.Plaistid's wingspan is merely ok, and he only averaged one block this season in college in 27 mpg.
If we went by all the reports then certain players drafted really late would never make any sort of impact. Or, they'd never develop certain parts of their game. I don't have to go into specifics about that b/c you are a smart person. it's also funny how some players have "possibility of becoming a great shot blocker", where other players with the similar qualities cannot. Based off reports (Comparison:Speights to Plaistid) Defensively of course. Also, how can you blk a shot when pinned underneath the rim? If O'B put on weight i'd love to have him. My only issue is his weight. To defend that post, you'll need weight. Otherwise, he'll be primarily an off the ball defender (weakside). We need more than that.That's fair. IMO O'Bryant needs about as much work as any big man we will likely be able to draft, and has about the same upside, but simply won't cost us a pick.

[ChumpDumper]

I get that, and I'm fine buying low - provided that it's quite low - on him.

Just saying that the next time he has prolonged success will be the first time - at any level.I would only sign him for the minimum.

[Big P]

Forget about giving Diop the MLE, we need scoring in the worst way, he will not provide that. Diop is not a long term solution to anything, so signing him to anything over a 2 year contract would not be a good move & giving him a full MLE contract would be idiotic. If I had to choose between say Pietrus or Azibuke or Diop, I go with the scoring swingman everytime.

[Spur-Addict]

Plaistid's wingspan is merely ok, and he only averaged one block this season in college in 27 mpg.That's fair. IMO O'Bryant needs about as much work as any big man we will likely be able to draft, and has about the same upside, but simply won't cost us a pick.

Bad/deficient....Ok/Good....Fantastic/Great....The words kinda even out to me. The ones that are grouped in 2's that is. The difference is O'B is still a young kid in his frame. I don't wish to work a whole year on his frame. Who knows if his frame will even accept it. I'd rather work with a Mans frame who only needs fundamental tutoring of what we want to do. If we want O'B for a year or so later, then yeah why not. But, our time is now.

[ChumpDumper]

Bad/deficient....Ok/Good....Fantastic/Great....The words kinda even out to me. The ones that are grouped in 2's that is. The difference is O'B is still a young kid in his frame. I don't wish to work a whole year on his frame. Who knows if his frame will even accept it. I'd rather work with a Mans frame who only needs fundamental tutoring of what we want to do. If we want O'B for a year or so later, then yeah why not. But, our time is now.Which makes me wonder why we are even discussing the big men available to us in this draft. It's usually a crap shoot at this point.

[Spur-Addict]

Which makes me wonder why we are even discussing the big men available to us in this draft. It's usually a crap shoot at this point.

I think we became caught up in making points. We both made good ones. I believe we are talking about the draft in regards to bigs because who knows what may pan out in the FA market. So, the FO is probably looking there as well. We need length and size and to be honest as long as it pans out I really don't care where it comes from.

[A.H 21-50]

I'm not a fan of diop , he can defend , block shots , rebound but he's a little bit soft and bring nothing offensivly wich is not the most important point
Spending The Mle for diop is too much for me but having him on the bench could be an option

I don't know O'Bryant stats in D-League and didn't saw him so far this year but comments seems good on him : why not

For the draft , here is the guys who can be available and interesting :
Robin Lopez , Roy Hibbert , Joey Dorsey, Devon Hardin ....

[Marcus Bryant]

The only way Diop makes sense is if you could land him while splitting the MLE and end up with a useful perimeter player with the other portion. I think that'd be tough to pull off.

[Mr. Body]

I'm agreeing the MLE is too much for Diop, but to get him that's probably what it takes.

In all likelihood Mahinmi will need to be the second shot blocker (which means we have no dependable one); Kurt can get blocks here and there. Splitter's loss really puts a stymie on the team right now, but we need to move ahead (how's that, Chump? I'm getting better).

[K-State Spur]

If you sign Diop, and put him on the floor at the same time as Bowen, then you basically allow the opponent to have two 'rovers' hassling the big 3.

[Russ]

I always thought that Elson was underrated, mostly by Spurs fans.

Bring Elson back as a cheap insurance plan. If Mahinmi can step in, then so much the better -- nothing's lost.

Most of these guys on the draft list will never make it or won't make it for some time -- especially the bigs.

[ChumpDumper]

Like I've said before, I really want any big man picked up to be an athlete first and foremost. After that, he should really be a skilled scorer or shotblocker. It's difficult to ask for all of the above at our draft spots, but it does give an idea what should be avoided.

[spursfan98]

Dorseys a pretty athletic dude

[A.H 21-50]

Dorseys a pretty athletic dude

I like him a lot despite he's only 6’7.25 with shoes
If he's there with our second round wich i doubt , i'll take him without thinking

[spursfan98]

I like him a lot despite he's only 6’7.25 with shoes
If he's there with our second round wich i doubt , i'll take him without thinking

Hes very athletic, he plays great defense and blocks lots of shots and can score great.

[Russ]

I just had a few cups of wine. - Dermarr Johnson, #1 San Antonio Spurs



People haven't had "cups" of wine since Biblical times -- is this guy Jesus?:whine

[spursfan98]

People haven't had "cups" of wine since Biblical times -- is this guy Jesus?:whine

:lol im not sure but that was his excuse wen he got arrested for the DWI.
Gotta love it... best excuse ever

[Mr. Body]

Maybe it was cups of Mulled Wine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulled_wine)? Has he Scandinavian roots? Has it been wintry weather in San Antonio lately? Who doesn't like a nice warmed cup of old wine with cloves and a cinammon stick to stir it? Who doesn't like a couple?

Give this guy a break.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

what's to be reclaimed?

the guy's entire hype was based around a hot 10 game stretch in the MVC and 2 decent tournament games. It's not like he dominated at a mid-major and just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Good lord, we're talking about taking a cheap flier on him, not giving him the max.

It's stupid to judge him for not producing as a center in Nellieball.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The challenge for the Spurs is to evaluate both free agency and the draft and weigh them against one another.

They've got the MLE to work with, they need to figure out if that will get them one of the perimeter scorers they like. If it won't, and trades aren't an option, then they need to take the MLE and spend it on big men (Diop, or something like a Thomas/O'Bryant combo).

If they spend their MLE on a big, then it goes without saying they need to find a perimeter scorer (that can create off the dribble) in the draft.

If they have a good handle on a wing with their MLE, then they need to find a big in the draft. It's all fun speculation for us, but the Spurs have access to much more info (and agents) than we do.

[E20]

Trade for David Lee.

D'Antoni doesn't want him and he would love a big who could shoot the three (Bonner). Use most of the MLE on Barnes or Pietrus. Look to sign a reliable back up PG and draft an atheletic promising wing player, resign KT, look into see what Finley and Horry are going to do. Done and Done.

[Leetonidas]

Trade for David Lee.

D'Antoni doesn't want him and he would love a big who could shoot the three (Bonner). Use most of the MLE on Barnes or Pietrus. Look to sign a reliable back up PG and draft an atheletic promising wing player, resign KT, look into see what Finley and Horry are going to do. Done and Done.

That's actually a good idea. I think the Spurs should try to get Lee. Resign Thomas, and split the MLE between Kelenna Azubuike/Mikael Pietrus and a backup PG or maybe Diop. With Mahinmi coming in, I like our roster for next year if that happens.

[tav1]

What about Zo Mourning, provided he is healthy and fit, for the LLE? He would only play 15 minutes per game, and bring energy, rebounding and shot blocking. He fits right into the old mad demographic.

Of course, he's not nimble enough to get out and guard quick big so maybe that's the deal killer. And where do find minutes for Zo, Thomas, Duncan, Oberto and Mahinmi? And how do you space the floor with that stable of bigs?

[Spur-Addict]

Trade for David Lee.

D'Antoni doesn't want him and he would love a big who could shoot the three (Bonner). Use most of the MLE on Barnes or Pietrus. Look to sign a reliable back up PG and draft an atheletic promising wing player, resign KT, look into see what Finley and Horry are going to do. Done and Done.

:wow.....:hungry:
David Lee is a double double machine, how could a coach not like that? He can finish inside and on the break, he's a good passer, plays D, plus he hustles all the time. His contract is super weak, he'll get a bigger contract at the latest by 09/10. I doubt he gets traded. Where did you hear about D'Antoni not liking Lee? I'd like to read this.

[tav1]

Trade for David Lee.

D'Antoni doesn't want him and he would love a big who could shoot the three (Bonner). Use most of the MLE on Barnes or Pietrus. Look to sign a reliable back up PG and draft an atheletic promising wing player, resign KT, look into see what Finley and Horry are going to do. Done and Done.

Bonner for Lee is a good idea--maybe the best trade idea I've read on this forum. Maybe throw in Splitter rights to make it more attractive. Lee is a blackhole defensively, but the Spurs system should hide that and his enegy would make up for the rest. Lee would more or less duplicate what we were hoping to get with Splitter.

[tav1]

:wow.....:hungry:
David Lee is a double double machine, how could a coach not like that? He can finish inside and on the break, he's a good passer, plays D, plus he hustles all the time. His contract is super weak, he'll get a bigger contract at the latest by 09/10. I doubt he gets traded. Where did you hear about D'Antoni not liking Lee? I'd like to read this.

I read the same thing, can't remember where.

[Mr. Body]

Why doesn't D'Antoni want David Lee?

[timvp]

Spurs don't have enough assets to get David Lee. Lee, as a guy who could average a double double without a single play called for him, would have huge value on the open market. Even Bonner + a first rounder + Splitter's rights + Mahinmi's rights = not enough.

Good idea but not possible.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's actually a good idea. I think the Spurs should try to get Lee. Resign Thomas, and split the MLE between Kelenna Azubuike/Mikael Pietrus and a backup PG or maybe Diop. With Mahinmi coming in, I like our roster for next year if that happens.

A trade for David Lee isn't a bad idea, but let's not go overboard. Any one of Kelenna, Pietrus, or Diop is going to cost the entire MLE.

[tav1]

Spurs don't have enough assets to get David Lee. Lee, as a guy who could average a double double without a single play called for him, would have huge value on the open market. Even Bonner + a first rounder + Splitter's rights + Mahinmi's rights = not enough.

Good idea but not possible.

I don't think his value is that high, but it would definately take more than Bonner. I just checked, and I don't see anyway to get the math to work either.

[Mr. Body]

More realistically, in the draft a guy to look out for is Jason Thompson. Played for Rider, which is a caveat, but his numbers are terrific at that, including a decent 3-ball percentage for a big guy and shot blocking and rebounding skills.

[Spur-Addict]

I don't think his value is that high, but it would definately take more than Bonner. I just checked, and I don't see anyway to get the math to work either.

The Math? We have quite a few free agents upcoming. I don't know about you, but I can definetly part with a player in order to land him. W/O giving up Ian and too many picks i'd be for it. Bonner and two picks, 1st and two 2nds plus future considerations. I'm not saying the picks from this year, just split them up. If this holds any truth, it's worth a stab. I LOVE D-LEES game. I'm sorry, not many players are at all that interesting to me. But Lee is. So again (lol), where was this heard? In regards to D'Antoni not liking Lee's Game??????

[Spur-Addict]

More realistically, in the draft a guy to look out for is Jason Thompson. Played for Rider, which is a caveat, but his numbers are terrific at that, including a decent 3-ball percentage for a big guy and shot blocking and rebounding skills.

His numbers are deceptive, he played in the MAAC. I know what MAAC basketball is like up close and personal. He is a good player though, tough guard.

[ElNono]

Like I've said before, I really want any big man picked up to be an athlete first and foremost. After that, he should really be a skilled scorer or shotblocker. It's difficult to ask for all of the above at our draft spots, but it does give an idea what should be avoided.

As far as scoring goes, the big would just need to be able to do putbacks, and actually make layups. That would already be a major improvement offensively over Oberto. If he can also hit the 10 foot jumper, and play a little defense, we'll be all set!

[E20]

Spurs don't have enough assets to get David Lee. Lee, as a guy who could average a double double without a single play called for him, would have huge value on the open market. Even Bonner + a first rounder + Splitter's rights + Mahinmi's rights = not enough.

Good idea but not possible.

I specifically remember reading on this board after D'Antoni became the HC for the Knicks is that David Lee did not fit the mold for the type of players he wanted playing for him. So hopefully/maybe D'Antoni would give him up under his market value. And David Lee's contract is, IIRC, 2 years around 4 million according to hoopshype. Plus this is NY we are talking about anything can happen with a combination of Thomas, D'Antoni, and Dolan (One of them cancels Donnie Walsh)

[NewJerSpur]

I don't know about this whole idea of Lee not being a "D'Antoni guy"...he can run the floor pretty well and is a good finisher. That to me, would be a good cog to fit into Mike's system.

[JoshO501]

how about craig smith? he wont cost very much.

[E20]

Found the thread and NYTimes article about D'Antoni not wanting Lee. Take it for what it is worth.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95717&highlight=mike+d%27antoni

[NewJerSpur]

I still think D'Antoni would be wiser to stick with Lee who can help ignite fast breaks with his rebounding and finish them with his hustle down court. Funny that he traded for Kurt Thomas who is a more experienced, but less athletic version of Lee with a more consistent jumper yet Mike's confidant claims there's no place for David in the D'Antoni system. I think the main thing he has to do is get confidence in his jump shot...he has good form but short arms too many of his shots seemingly thinking he shouldn't even be involved in any offense outside of the paint.

[Spur-Addict]

Found the thread and NYTimes article about D'Antoni not wanting Lee. Take it for what it is worth.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95717&highlight=mike+d%27antoni

Thank you sir.

[Marcus Bryant]

JR Smith is obviously the Spurs' top free agent target.

[K-State Spur]

Good lord, we're talking about taking a cheap flier on him, not giving him the max.

It's stupid to judge him for not producing as a center in Nellieball.

I already mentioned that I was fine with buying low on him.

Just was saying that there was no previous success to be "reclaimed". Any prolonged success would really be his first at any level.

[timvp]

My only problem with Patrick O'Bryant is he can't play in D-League any longer. As a buy low, he's an awesome candidate for a bigman. In fact, DeSagana Diop was at one point in time a much worse looking prospect than O'Bryant. O'Bryant for the LLE is great value.

[K-State Spur]

I specifically remember reading on this board after D'Antoni became the HC for the Knicks is that David Lee did not fit the mold for the type of players he wanted playing for him. So hopefully/maybe D'Antoni would give him up under his market value. And David Lee's contract is, IIRC, 2 years around 4 million according to hoopshype. Plus this is NY we are talking about anything can happen with a combination of Thomas, D'Antoni, and Dolan (One of them cancels Donnie Walsh)

i believe that was just an espn writer's speculation - not any actual statements made by dantoni.

[Popo>Phil]

Sign Patrick O'Bryant and Kurt Thomas. Spurs should spend the MLE and their first round draft pick on perimeter players.
POB makes sense to me and he seems not to have a bright prospect in GSW:

Though he assumes that Baron Davis and the rest of the Warriors' core will be back, Nelson also admits that the new season will bring a new philosophy. Brandan Wright and Marco Belinelli, who rarely played during their rookie season, already have begun practicing in Oakland again, and Nelson insists they will be worked into the rotation.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/02/SP6D111S3G.DTL

but doesn't he has a 4y contract until 2010?

[E20]

POB makes sense to me and he seems not to have a bright prospect in GSW:

Though he assumes that Baron Davis and the rest of the Warriors' core will be back, Nelson also admits that the new season will bring a new philosophy. Brandan Wright and Marco Belinelli, who rarely played during their rookie season, already have begun practicing in Oakland again, and Nelson insists they will be worked into the rotation.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/02/SP6D111S3G.DTL

but doesn't he has a 4y contract until 2010?

As of now the only thing I've been hearing locally is Davis and his halted contract negotiations with Golden State. It's overshadowed Barnes, Pietrus, and Azubuike.

"After sitting down with the Warriors organization (Thursday) regarding Baron's future, I don't know what direction the Warriors are going," Ramasar said. "Baron is adamant about remaining a Warrior but based on my conversations with the team (Thursday), we have to consider all of his options."

A source close to Davis said it's also 50-50 that the Warriors' captain, coming off a season in which he averaged 21.8 points, 7.6 assists and 4.7 rebounds, will leave either this summer or after next season after various contract offers that were quite disappointing.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9217881?nclick_check=1
http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9246654

Although it sounds like Baron is trying to play hard ball and get his money's worth he has known to be a malcontent.

[NewJerSpur]

JR Smith is obviously the Spurs' top free agent target.

Some fans have him higher up on the priority list than he likely is in reality. Although, he would help SA get on Top Plays more often, lol.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs traded for him. Some fans remember that.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What about Ian?

I can't believe it took until post #20 for someone to mention Ian. The guy could develop into a very good weakside shot blocker with his speed and hops. I also agree with others that Diop would be a nice addition.

[NewJerSpur]

The Spurs traded for him. Some fans remember that.

The Spurs tried to acquire him from NO when he was an even younger up-start...before he showed he could be a troubled hot-head on and off the court. As far as his game goes, he's good for a highlight reel right about now, but SA is trying to add to the trophy case and I doubt they'll overpay him to help them do so. Just my opinion.

[Blackjack]

Much of the board's generated posts around Marcus Bryant's Draft Profiles have been around wing and SG prospects, with a PG thrown in (Chalmers). This is not remiss, there is no doubting the team badly needs scoring, youth, and athleticism to refresh its perimeter players. Rush, Lee, Batum, CDR are all good prospects...

But are we barking up the wrong tree? Since the beginning of the Duncan era, for more than a decade now, the prevailing team philosophy for defense required two shot-blockers on the floor at all times, or as much as possible. When Robinson retired we shifted to Rasho Nesterovic and then added Nazr Mohammed. When we got rid of those guys, we at least had Francisco Elson. But then, when we traded Elson off, suddenly we only have one guy of any real shot-blocking threat left: Duncan himself. (I discount Horry, who is (was) more an opportunistic shot-blocker.) One of the reasons for a gradual decline in defensive prowess team-wide could be a lack of another guy guarding the rim.

Now, with the loss of Splitter, himself not known as a shot-blocker but at least having the length and timing to have the potential (1 block/game is enough), where do we turn? The roster is littered with big men who are fairly immobile and do not help in this department. The team may consider themselves backed in to a corner here and required to select a big man with their first pick. I'm not so sure they'll pick a wing.

What are the possibilities?

Robertas Javtokas -- don't think there is any contact there any more.

Francisco Elson -- he is a free agent and for all his addled charm, serves in this regard, has the length to perhaps bother Odom or Gasol.

Drafting -- Koufos, Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Hibbert

Any ideas here?

I'm not sure if it's so much of a need for a big man, as a need for what a good big man usually brings. What I mean is, we need another low-post presence but not neccessarily a big man. We need rebounding, shot-blocking, and someone who can draw a double team every once in a while, even if they're not a 7-footer. We need people who can get easy buckets and draw fouls(to take advantage of the penalty) regardless of position.

Good low-post big men are hard to come buy, so maybe finding a Bonzi-ish type player is a little more realistic. It really doesn't matter how tall the player is, as much as how effective they are. We just need someone other than Duncan to give us a post-threat.

A guy I really want to see the Spurs pick up (while not the post-threat we're looking for) is Dominic McGuire. When I watched him play at Fresno St. his feel for the game reminded me a little of J.Green and B.Diaw, with the way they'd play through him in the post/high-post. With his build though, and the way he rebounded and blocked shots, I couldn't help but see a little S.Marion/G.Wallace in him.

He's got the potential to be a real diamond in the rough. He could give us a real versatile defender who rebounds and blocks shots from the 3/4 position. His shot needs work (Hello, Chip) but this is the type of guy the Spurs should be looking to develop. I think DeMarr was even nice enough to open a spot for him. :toast

We're probably not going to find everything we need in one particular player. So maybe finding a couple players, with a unique skill-set, is the way to go. I think sometimes we all look at things a little too convetionally, and forget that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

And sometimes we find ourselves using cliches that would make B.Bowen proud. :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I already mentioned that I was fine with buying low on him.

Just was saying that there was no previous success to be "reclaimed". Any prolonged success would really be his first at any level.

See Jackson, Stephen.

[SPURSGOAT]

Diop!!!! Him and Duncan would own the lane... just getting him would be an instant upgrade... would be like having the twin towers all over again....with Mahinmi and Kurt Thomas coming off the bench...

[SPURSGOAT]

JR Smith is obviously the Spurs' top free agent target.

I don't think we would be able to land Smith... would love it if we did... but I don't see it happening... I think we have a better shot at Diop than Smith.

[Blackjack]

Ahh.... Screw it!

Why don't they just sign Candace Parker already???

[kobyz]

Duncan, Splitter, Mahinmi, Thomas and Oberto could have be a great big man rotation, now we need to find replacement to Splitter that was supposed to be the second importent big after Duncan, it will be hard to find him replacement!

[angelbelow]

such a tough decision.. do we use our money on a Bigman, wing, or pg? as far as the draft is concerned, i say we draft the most NBA ready player and go from there. whether thats rush, CDR, lopez, whoever, and we should plan it out from there.

[Bruno]

but doesn't he has a 4y contract until 2010?

No he is an unrestricted free agent this summer.

[TDMVPDPOY]

alonzo mourning or pjbrown for the pension...

[wildchild]

Regarding DeSagana Diop, I find it tough to convince myself that he's worth the MLE. I really like his defense but he's such a horrible offensive player that he might negate much of his defensive work. The Spurs can't really afford to take a step back offensively, especially since it was their offense that let them down against the Lakers. I'll have to think about Diop some more but his offense really is pitiful and is the reason why the Mavs basically gave him away and the the reason why the Nets hardly played him. Perhaps he could work as long as the Spurs bring in that much talked about fourth scorer . . .

I don't know...Diop offense isn't great, and so?
KT's offensive isn't great too. His pick and rolls didn't work, his shot didn't effective (remember several KT games with 2-11 on %FT?), his offensive chemistry with Tim in the paint didn't work too...
C'mon I prefer Diop, at least he isn't 36 year old next season.
Agree. KT had a nice round against Suns and a good game against Lakers. One game in Los Angeles, against New Orleans he didn't so much.
He hasn't the Diop size, he doesn't move without the ball like Oberto or his pass and assts to Tim, he isn't athletic and young guy like Ian. Ian can run, block and score if Pop gives him the chance.
I say bring Diop with the money KT's contract.
Tim, Diop, Oberto and Ian is much better.
timvp in Pop offensive systems our fourth scorer never will be a bigmen with Tim in the paint, the Spurs need add a great and young perimeter scorer. This new guy'll be our fourth scorer.

[SenorSpur]

I don't know...Diop offense isn't great, and so?
KT's offensive isn't great too. His pick and rolls didn't work, his shot didn't effective (remember several KT games with 2-11 on %FT?), his offensive chemistry with Tim in the paint didn't work too...
C'mon I prefer Diop, at least he isn't 36 year old next season.
Agree. KT had a nice round against Suns and a good game against Lakers. One game in Los Angeles, against New Orleans he didn't so much.
He hasn't the Diop size, he doesn't move without the ball like Oberto or his pass and assts to Tim, he isn't athletic and young guy like Ian. Ian can run, block and score if Pop gives him the chance.
I say bring Diop with the money KT's contract.
Tim, Diop, Oberto and Ian is much better.
timvp in Pop offensive systems our fourth scorer never will be a bigmen with Tim in the paint, the Spurs need add a great and young perimeter scorer. This new guy'll be our fourth scorer.

Agree. As much as we need that 4th scorer (new perimeter swingman, we also need another big of size. Someone who can pair up with Tim to combat the suddenly taller frontlines of the Blazers and the Fakers. We cannot beat the Fakers with just Tim as our lone rim=protector, rebounder and post player. Ian maybe that guy in the next couple of years, but he's not going to hit the ground running because he so young.

[tav1]

I'll ask again: Zo Mourning, if healthy, 1 yr for the LLE?

Patrick O'Bryant can't play in the D-League and will take a full year to learn the system. There is no way he gets playing time with our roster of bigs. Pop is not going to play two rookies (Mahinmi is functionally a rookie). Mourning is a better option, to my mind.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs tried to acquire him from NO when he was an even younger up-start...before he showed he could be a troubled hot-head on and off the court. As far as his game goes, he's good for a highlight reel right about now, but SA is trying to add to the trophy case and I doubt they'll overpay him to help them do so. Just my opinion.

He's the best scorer available for the Spurs in free agency given their cap situation. 22 years old, athletic. If the Spurs want to win another championship they need to be able to rest Manu during the regular season, as this post-season has borne out.

[Mr. Body]

I'll ask again: Zo Mourning, if healthy, 1 yr for the LLE?

He retired.

[tav1]

He retired.

He's been quoted several times in recent weeks saying that he wants to play one more year.

And he never retired. It was just assumed given the injury and his age.

[kobyz]

i dont think that Zo can contribute anymore based on his age and his injuries problems

[K-State Spur]

See Jackson, Stephen.

And that's fair. As I said, my post was about the word 'reclaimed' - not an end-all-be-all opinion of buying low on POB.

[K-State Spur]

Agree. As much as we need that 4th scorer (new perimeter swingman, we also need another big of size. Someone who can pair up with Tim to combat the suddenly taller frontlines of the Blazers and the Fakers. We cannot beat the Fakers with just Tim as our lone rim=protector, rebounder and post player. Ian maybe that guy in the next couple of years, but he's not going to hit the ground running because he so young.

Our problems against the Lakers were not defense or rebounding.

[tav1]

Our problems against the Lakers were not defense or rebounding.

Right. This is a good thing to remember. I think our team defense could be better, but the reason we lost in the playoffs was because the offense sputtered. I'm okay using the LLE to shore up our shot blocking, but our draft picks and MLE money ought to go to a 4th scorer and wing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'll ask again: Zo Mourning, if healthy, 1 yr for the LLE?

Patrick O'Bryant can't play in the D-League and will take a full year to learn the system. There is no way he gets playing time with our roster of bigs. Pop is not going to play two rookies (Mahinmi is functionally a rookie). Mourning is a better option, to my mind.

If you really think Alonzo Mourning's broken down old ass is the answer, you should stop posting.

It's amazing how certain people are that O'Bryant can't play when I'd venture the majority of his critics are going by reading box scores and have never seen the guy play.

It's rather humorous seeing someone bag on a kid for not fitting in with Nellieball. You could say the same shit about Bynum, it took him having Kareem work with him every day in practice for two years for him to show some semblance of getting it.

That's the thing about most young big men though, the majority never get much coaching unless they actually stay in college a couple of years and do it at a school with some good big men coaching.

Otherwise, all this kid has known and be coached on his entire life is 'you're tall, go stand by the rim, dunk it when we throw it to you inside or off the alley oop, and get the rebounds when you can.'

[TypicalSpursHater]

The Spurs big men suck. They cheat all the time. They will probably sign Kwame and suck even more. And in the draft they wil pick someone no one has ever heard of like every year. he will be from like yugoslavia or somethin like that

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He's been quoted several times in recent weeks saying that he wants to play one more year.

And he never retired. It was just assumed given the injury and his age.

Who gives a shit what he wants, he's older than Horry with worse knees and ankles. Are you going to ask LA, New Orleans, Phoenix, Portland, and Utah to hold up at half court so Zo can make it down to play defense? Earth to tav1, feel free to join us at any time.

[Civilfatman]

Much of the board's generated posts around Marcus Bryant's Draft Profiles have been around wing and SG prospects, with a PG thrown in (Chalmers). This is not remiss, there is no doubting the team badly needs scoring, youth, and athleticism to refresh its perimeter players. Rush, Lee, Batum, CDR are all good prospects...

But are we barking up the wrong tree? Since the beginning of the Duncan era, for more than a decade now, the prevailing team philosophy for defense required two shot-blockers on the floor at all times, or as much as possible. When Robinson retired we shifted to Rasho Nesterovic and then added Nazr Mohammed. When we got rid of those guys, we at least had Francisco Elson. But then, when we traded Elson off, suddenly we only have one guy of any real shot-blocking threat left: Duncan himself. (I discount Horry, who is (was) more an opportunistic shot-blocker.) One of the reasons for a gradual decline in defensive prowess team-wide could be a lack of another guy guarding the rim.

Now, with the loss of Splitter, himself not known as a shot-blocker but at least having the length and timing to have the potential (1 block/game is enough), where do we turn? The roster is littered with big men who are fairly immobile and do not help in this department. The team may consider themselves backed in to a corner here and required to select a big man with their first pick. I'm not so sure they'll pick a wing.

What are the possibilities?

Robertas Javtokas -- don't think there is any contact there any more.

Francisco Elson -- he is a free agent and for all his addled charm, serves in this regard, has the length to perhaps bother Odom or Gasol.

Drafting -- Koufos, Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Hibbert

Any ideas here?


What about Desagana Diop?

[SenorSpur]

Our problems against the Lakers were not defense or rebounding.

When the Fakers add Bynum to their roster next season - it will be.

[K-State Spur]

When the Fakers add Bynum to their roster next season - it will be.

When Bynum was scoring, he was the Lakers main option down low.

While they will certainly be a better team with Bynum than without him (assuming that he recovers from this injury - NOT a given), don't be surprised if Gasol's presence eats into his offense significantly.

[TypicalSpursHater]

Bynam is a beast

[FromWayDowntown]

Our problems against the Lakers were not defense or rebounding.

I'd agree that defense wasn't really the issue, but the Spurs have (for a couple of years now, I think) needed a big body who can effectively rebound the basketball when Duncan is off the floor (and sometimes when Duncan is on the floor -- see 2008 WCF, Game 4).

Frankly, I would have no quarrel with Kurt Thomas coming back for another year to be one of those big bodies (particularly if he can be had for money closer to what the Spurs have been paying to Horry or Oberto), but I think it would certainly behoove the Spurs to find a young big who can rebound, even if he can't score.

I'd be all for offering the MLE to a guy like Diop and then using other assets, including a draft pick, to find players who can add some athleticism and a little scoring punch to the roster.

I don't think we can look at this as a "we were pretty close to LA in 2008" sort of thing; LA gets Bynum back next year and I think you have to assume in building a roster that he's going to come back and be an effective player. With Bynum and Gasol on that roster, the onus is on teams that think they're contenders to come up with bigs who can play. I would put the priority there.

[tav1]

Who gives a shit what he wants, he's older than Horry with worse knees and ankles. Are you going to ask LA, New Orleans, Phoenix, Portland, and Utah to hold up at half court so Zo can make it down to play defense? Earth to tav1, feel free to join us at any time.

First, I watched O'Bryant play in the D-League this year. He's ok, and we could do worse, but what's the point? He won't play and we can't send him to Austin. If Zo Mourning is physically able to play, I'd rather use the LLE on him. He probably won't play either, but I trust his shot-blocking and rebounding--and more importantly, his ability to body other bigs--more than some kid who might be mediocre.

The West is not run and gun anymore. It's slow. It's Gasol and Bynum, it's Oden, it's Shaq. At 8 to 12 minutes a game, if that, Zo, can get up and down the court. We're talking about a 5th big for the LLE. Why is this such a stretch?

[FromWayDowntown]

In terms of adding players to this roster, I wouldn't touch Alonzo Mourning with a 10 foot pole.

[ChumpDumper]

Isn't he playing golf now?

[tav1]

Isn't he playing golf now?

No, he's been rehabbing his knee in hopes of playing one more season. He's not retired.

I'm getting lynched here for suggesting we consider Zo as a 5th big for the LLE if he is physically able to play. We're talking about a roster spot that might dress in a suit and pass Gatorade all season. I can't see how Zo is any better or worse than Patrick O'Bryant as a suggestion for a guy that might not play.

[A.H 21-50]

Our problems against the Lakers were not defense or rebounding.


Right. This is a good thing to remember. I think our team defense could be better, but the reason we lost in the playoffs was because the offense sputtered. I'm okay using the LLE to shore up our shot blocking, but our draft picks and MLE money ought to go to a 4th scorer and wing.

false statement

Ok we didn't lose because of the rebounding but we were outrebounding all the games against the lakers except game 1 with 42 rebounds for us and 41 for the lakers
The lakers average 43 rbs per game and the spurs 38.6 rbs per game ( 17,4 for the only DUNCAN)

Rebound was one of our weaknesses in this series and wit have to adjust it

[Mr. Body]

While I have extreme doubts about his health and age, in my opinion Mourning is a far better as a one-year pick-up than Patrick O'Bryant, who is on an extremely long timeline for becoming an NBA player. The fervent support for POB around here is surprising.

[ChumpDumper]

No, he's been rehabbing his knee in hopes of playing one more season. He's not retired.

I'm getting lynched here for suggesting we consider Zo as a 5th big for the LLE if he is physically able to play. We're talking about a roster spot that might dress in a suit and pass Gatorade all season. I can't see how Zo is any better or worse than Patrick O'Bryant as a suggestion for a guy that might not play.He would be an option if healthy, I suppose. The difference is there is at least the perception of upside with O'Bryant if he works out. I'm fixated on picking up younger players, and the way to get one cheap is when his stock is low.

[ChumpDumper]

The fervent support for POB around here is surprising.He was just brought up as an IR project. He's pretty much in the same boat as any big man we could draft as far as NBA potential. If there is a similar swingman available this summer, I'm open to that as well.

Buy low.

[Bruno]

I think that Players like Bonner and Mahinmi can be productive but you need to give them consistent playing time during the season. It isn't possible if you stockpile vets in front of them.

If as expected, Splitter stay in Spain. Re-sign Thomas for about $3M per year and a prospect (O'Bryant or a player picked with the 45th pick).
You end up with :
PF: Oberto/Bonner/Mahinmi
C : Duncan/Thomas
IL : Prospect
Of course, things aren't set in stone and if the prospect is good enough, he can get some playing time and another big can be put on the IL.

If Splitter decides to sign with Spurs, re-sign Horry for the min.
PF : Oberto/Bonner/Mahinmi
C : Duncan/Splitter
IL : Horry

[tav1]

He was just brought up as an IR project. He's pretty much in the same boat as any big man we could draft as far as NBA potential. If there is a similar swingman available this summer, I'm open to that as well.

Buy low.

Chump, I can see you're thinking here. I think it's a high priority to get younger too. But I want to see a balance between getting younger and competing for a championship. I really do not like our limited ability to develop Bryant. If we're going to draft/sign a big--I don't think that we should, but assuming--I'd rather it be someone we can develop overseas or in Austin.

I mentioned Zo as a 5th big shot blocking safety net. I wouldn't expect anything special from him.

[tav1]

I think that Players like Bonner and Mahinmi can be productive but you need to give them consistent playing time during the season. It isn't possible if you stockpile vets in front of them.

If as expected, Splitter stay in Spain. Re-sign Thomas for about $3M per year and a prospect (O'Bryant or a player picked with the 45th pick).
You end up with :
PF: Oberto/Bonner/Mahinmi
C : Duncan/Thomas
IL : Prospect
Of course, things aren't set in stone and if the prospect is good enough, he can get some playing time and another big can be put on the IL.

If Splitter decides to sign with Spurs, re-sign Horry for the min.
PF : Oberto/Bonner/Mahinmi
C : Duncan/Splitter
IL : Horry

Bruno, I can't see Horry giving anything of value a year from now. I'd rather resign Thomas under either scenario. The West is bigger and more physical now. And Thomas still has gas in the tank.

[Bruno]

Bruno, I can't see Horry giving anything of value a year from now. I'd rather resign Thomas under either scenario. The West is bigger and more physical now. And Thomas still has gas in the tank.

I agree that Thomas > Horry but Horry will be something like $2M cheaper than Thomas.
I'm not a fan on spending a lot of money on the 6th bigman. I rather see Spurs spending this money on something else.

[Mulletino]

The Spurs big men suck. They cheat all the time. They will probably sign Kwame and suck even more. And in the draft they wil pick someone no one has ever heard of like every year. he will be from like yugoslavia or somethin like that

So you're saying Pau Gasol is better than Tim Duncan?
What a fool....It goes to show how much you know about basketball.
Pau Gasol ain't nothing without Kobe.
And Bynum is a broken ass that ain't nothing now. He's a waste of money. (try next year)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/Mulletino_photos/TherecanonlybeoneBIGBIRD.jpg

[wildbill2u]

Much of the board's generated posts around Marcus Bryant's Draft Profiles have been around wing and SG prospects, with a PG thrown in (Chalmers). This is not remiss, there is no doubting the team badly needs scoring, youth, and athleticism to refresh its perimeter players. Rush, Lee, Batum, CDR are all good prospects...

But are we barking up the wrong tree? Since the beginning of the Duncan era, for more than a decade now, the prevailing team philosophy for defense required two shot-blockers on the floor at all times, or as much as possible. When Robinson retired we shifted to Rasho Nesterovic and then added Nazr Mohammed. When we got rid of those guys, we at least had Francisco Elson. But then, when we traded Elson off, suddenly we only have one guy of any real shot-blocking threat left: Duncan himself. (I discount Horry, who is (was) more an opportunistic shot-blocker.) One of the reasons for a gradual decline in defensive prowess team-wide could be a lack of another guy guarding the rim.

Now, with the loss of Splitter, himself not known as a shot-blocker but at least having the length and timing to have the potential (1 block/game is enough), where do we turn? The roster is littered with big men who are fairly immobile and do not help in this department. The team may consider themselves backed in to a corner here and required to select a big man with their first pick. I'm not so sure they'll pick a wing.

What are the possibilities?

Robertas Javtokas -- don't think there is any contact there any more.

Francisco Elson -- he is a free agent and for all his addled charm, serves in this regard, has the length to perhaps bother Odom or Gasol.

Drafting -- Koufos, Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Hibbert

Any ideas here?

This draft is full of big men, both PFs and Cs. Not a lot of talent at guard/SF at our draft position.

With all the uncertainty about Ian and Splitter's new contract with Tau, I think we have to take the best player available in the draft and that is likely to be a big.

[tav1]

I agree that Thomas > Horry but Horry will be something like $2M cheaper than Thomas.
I'm not a fan on spending a lot of money on the 6th bigman. I rather see Spurs spending this money on something else.

LOL. I keep saying 5th bigman because I'm so dubious on Bonner.

Okay, Bruno, but not Horry. He has nothing left in the tank. The writing was on the wall all season and then, in big games, he wouldn't put a shot up. I'd rather have O'Bryant than Horry.

But will that 2 million between Thomas and Horry even matter? The Spurs are not going to be near the tax threshhold, but they are over cap. I don't know that the 2 mil will make an impact either way.

[tav1]

This draft is full of big men, both PFs and Cs. Not a lot of talent at guard/SF at our draft position.

With all the uncertainty about Ian and Splitter's new contract with Tau, I think we have to take the best player available in the draft and that is likely to be a big.

I don't agree with this. There are handful of decent swings within reach that could help. I think Lee-Walker-Rush-CDR could be there at #26 and would all be good picks. Batum could slide. In the second round players like Forbes and Casspi might be available for Austin. I'm not sure if this draft is so big rich/swing poor.

[SpursChampsIII]

All of this will depend on the cap, and how much money Holt-Cat is willing to spend. Does anybody know how much cap space we have if Finley, Horry, and Thomas go? Also, I believe you have to be over the cap to use the MLE...is that true?

If the numbers fit, I would like to see the Spurs pick up Diop, and either Pietrus or Dooling. If no Pietrus, draft either Rush, CDR, or Walker.
:flag:

[ChumpDumper]

All of this will depend on the cap, and how much money Holt-Cat is willing to spend. Does anybody know how much cap space we have if Finley, Horry, and Thomas go?None.
Also, I believe you have to be over the cap to use the MLE...is that true?True.

[The Truth #6]

I thought the Houston trade got us under the cap. Did we go back over in acquiring Thomas and Barry again?

[ChumpDumper]

I thought the Houston trade got us under the cap. Did we go back over in acquiring Thomas and Barry again?The cap and the tax threshold are two different things.

[Bruno]

LOL. I keep saying 5th bigman because I'm so dubious on Bonner.

Okay, Bruno, but not Horry. He has nothing left in the tank. The writing was on the wall all season and then, in big games, he wouldn't put a shot up. I'd rather have O'Bryant than Horry.

It's all about player evaluation.
If you think that Bonner is crap, signing Thomas makes sense.
If you think that Horry is done, you think another cheap vet as 6th bigman.
I think that Bonner could be a useful role player and that Horry is a good solution as insurance for the vet min.
You disagree with that and I respect your opinion. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right. Future will tell.



But will that 2 million between Thomas and Horry even matter? The Spurs are not going to be near the tax threshhold, but they are over cap. I don't know that the 2 mil will make an impact either way.

It's about smart management. Maybe these $2M won't have an impact in 2008-2009 but it could have the year after. These $2M saved could, as example allow Spurs to buy a pick in the 2009 draft.
And it isn't only about money. Having too good players on the IL could create some chemistry troubles. It's also far from sure that Thomas will agree to be an IL player.

[NewJerSpur]

He's the best scorer available for the Spurs in free agency given their cap situation. 22 years old, athletic. If the Spurs want to win another championship they need to be able to rest Manu during the regular season, as this post-season has borne out.

Agree with the last part of that statement wholeheartedly, but I'll definitely pass on J.R. Smith's "boom-or-bust" style of offense. Bring me Pargo and allow Tony to move to the 2 at times, and also bring me Matt Barnes...I think he could thrive in SA's system.

[NewJerSpur]

Oh, and re-sign KT and bring in an athletic big man who will eventually phase out Oberto. While Fab is a HELL of a passer and great at positioning himself for easy baskets, he is too reluctant to shoot the ball which puts more pressure on his teammates. He also bats the ball around more than he grabs boards, even when he's much taller and stronger than the person boxing him out...his leaping problems or rather his problems with leaping when it comes to scoring are already WELL documented. Not saying he has to go immediately, but I wouldn't be opposed to limiting his minutes to play Kurt more and an athletic big man....unless he suddenly becomes more aggressive.

[The Truth #6]

I think we need to put some hope/trust in Ian to be our athletic big man on the team. To spend the $ to find someone else with the same athleticism seems like a step back. We drafted Ian with high intentions, he's shown progress, and now it's time to play him and see what we have. I'd rather take my chances with him than Diop or someone else from the D-League.

JR Smith, Matt Barnes or Azub - I would be happy if we got one of those three in the off-season. They'll probably go for none of these and surprise us all.

But back to the big man - if we bring in someone new in addition to Ian, I just hope he has a different skill set so they're not competing for the same niche on the team. I'd stay with Kurt Thomas over Diop - he already has experience with The System and wouldn't get us stuck in free agency waiting for him to make an answer while we can instead focus on getting a young wing player. I imagine Kurt would let us know much more quickly if he plans to come back.

[NewJerSpur]

I think we need to put some hope/trust in Ian to be our athletic big man on the team. To spend the $ to find someone else with the same athleticism seems like a step back. We drafted Ian with high intentions, he's shown progress, and now it's time to play him and see what we have. I'd rather take my chances with him than Diop or someone else from the D-League.

JR Smith, Matt Barnes or Azub - I would be happy if we got one of those three in the off-season. They'll probably go for none of these and surprise us all.

But back to the big man - if we bring in someone new in addition to Ian, I just hope he has a different skill set so they're not competing for the same niche on the team. I'd stay with Kurt Thomas over Diop - he already has experience with The System and wouldn't get us stuck in free agency waiting for him to make an answer while we can instead focus on getting a young wing player. I imagine Kurt would let us know much more quickly if he plans to come back.

Also, for all of Diop's aggressiveness on the defensive end of the floor, he's a magnet to fouls (i.e. he plays aggressive but not always smart defense) and his offense won't really make up for him getting himself and the team into early foul trouble. Diop also doesn't have the range KT has offensively. I'm still pushing for Pargo, Barnes, and KT while bringing up Mahinmi to at least see what he can do.

[tav1]

It's all about player evaluation.
If you think that Bonner is crap, signing Thomas makes sense.
If you think that Horry is done, you think another cheap vet as 6th bigman.
I think that Bonner could be a useful role player and that Horry is a good solution as insurance for the vet min.
You disagree with that and I respect your opinion. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right. Future will tell.



It's about smart management. Maybe these $2M won't have an impact in 2008-2009 but it could have the year after. These $2M saved could, as example allow Spurs to buy a pick in the 2009 draft.
And it isn't only about money. Having too good players on the IL could create some chemistry troubles. It's also far from sure that Thomas will agree to be an IL player.

You raise a good point about 2009 and the "downside" of too many good players. I hadn't thought about it from that angle.