As much as I wanted him to win the nomination, I didn't think he could....

[Mr. Peabody]

Wow.

http://obeygiant.com/merch/2008/BARACK-hope-POSTER.jpg

[clambake]

wait a minute........are you not even slightly interested in McCain showing us the complete abyss?

[Mr. Peabody]

wait a minute........are you not even slightly interested in McCain showing us the complete abyss?

I used to like McCain in 2000, before he sold his soul to the right-wing of his party. But hey, it got him the nomination.

[clambake]

oh good, someone else remembers the way he took it in the ass, and whimpered away.

[MannyIsGod]

I used to like McCain in 2000, before he sold his soul to the right-wing of his party. But hey, it got him the nomination.

+1

This is not the same John McCain

[Budkin]

Wow.

http://obeygiant.com/merch/2008/BARACK-hope-POSTER.jpg

Seriously I never thought it would actually happen. I feel more hopeful in the future of this country than I have in the past 10 years.

[Mr. Peabody]

Seriously I never thought it would actually happen. I feel more hopeful in the future of this country than I have in the past 10 years.

Be careful, Michelle Obama was skewered by people on this board for making a similar statement.

[Don Quixote]

Really? McCain sold his soul to the right-wing? If he did, please inform me and the rest of us conservatives, because we missed it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Seriously I never thought it would actually happen. I feel more hopeful in the future of this country than I have in the past 10 years.

based on what?

[Mr. Peabody]

Really? McCain sold his soul to the right-wing? If he did, please inform me and the rest of us conservatives, because we missed it.

Hell, remember when he spoke a Liberty University? This was after referring to Falwell as an evil influence on the Republican Party and an agent of intolerance.

McCain of 2000 wouldn't have appeared at Liberty University, but McCain post-2000 did.

He went from being a "maverick" to seeking endorsements from Hagee and those he used to criticize.

[Don Quixote]

Yes, I've heard this argument before. McCain courted a couple of religious leaders. I get it. That doesn't make him a great conservative, though. He's still a weenie on immigration, global warming, and health care.

Second, this may come as a bit of a surprise to non-evangelicals, but the late Jerry Falwell, Hagee, and their ilk are not really all that influential. I don't take orders from him, none of my friends and colleagues do, and we never bring up what so-and-so did in church. Falwell had his heyday, I guess, as a part of the 80's resurgence of conservatism, bringing to it a emphasis on moral values. And it was valuable. But it's not like we take orders from him.

Lastly, I understand the real hate that people had for Falwell. He was really one of the first politically active evangelical leaders in the TV age. He got criticized for maybe being TOO politically active by us in the church (at times). And he had a way of saying dumb things at bad times. I get it. But would people be more forgiving of Falwell if, say, he were a politically active liberal?

[Mr. Peabody]

Yes, I've heard this argument before. McCain courted a couple of religious leaders. I get it. That doesn't make him a great conservative, though. He's still a weenie on immigration, global warming, and health care.

Second, this may come as a bit of a surprise to non-evangelicals, but the late Jerry Falwell, Hagee, and their ilk are not really all that influential. I don't take orders from him, none of my friends and colleagues do, and we never bring up what so-and-so did in church. Falwell had his heyday, I guess, as a part of the 80's resurgence of conservatism, bringing to it a emphasis on moral values. And it was valuable. But it's not like we take orders from him.


Yeah, you make a good point. I think I've confused the religious right with political conservatives. And I do realize that politically, McCain has not been as conservative as Republicans would have liked. Hell, there was a story I read last week or so where Harry Reid (?) said that McCain almost caucused with Democrats as an independent after 2000. But I do think that at least socially, McCain has moved further to the right than he was in 2000. Whether this was a political move to increase his appeal to Republicans or it had another purpose, I am not sure.

[Brutalis]

This political shit is just that -- shit.

They are all fucking evil crooks. Why can't the typical American get over the "Dream President that will fix everything" doodoo.

Truth is McCain will win the election and it would be a lateral move for our country.
And even in the chance Obamaha makes it in office he will not be there long, as sad as that is.

[Don Quixote]

I want him to come further right! (and be genuine of course) Trying to bring in independents and moderates will do him no good. You can't out-Democrat a Democrat. Like Homer Simpson says, I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my Republicans conservative.

McCain being a centrist means this election will be a tight one. Obama might yet pull it out, as did Carter in 76 against another establishment Republican, Ford. Given Obama's similarities to Mondale and McGovern, I'd prefer to compare this year to 1984 and 72, respectively, in which the Democrat got wiped out by a strong Republican. (Reagan was conservative, Nixon was establishment). 1988 would be a nice scenario, too, where the equally inept Dukakis got beat by a not-terribly impressive Bush I.

[Mr. Peabody]

I want him to come further right! (and be genuine of course) Trying to bring in independents and moderates will do him no good. You can't out-Democrat a Democrat. Like Homer Simpson says, I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my Republicans conservative.

McCain being a centrist means this election will be a tight one. Obama might yet pull it out, as did Carter in 76 against another establishment Republican, Ford. Given Obama's similarities to Mondale and McGovern, I'd prefer to compare this year to 1984 and 72, respectively, in which the Democrat got wiped out by a strong Republican. (Reagan was conservative, Nixon was establishment). 1988 would be a nice scenario, too, where the equally inept Dukakis got beat by a not-terribly impressive Bush I.

Well, initially I assumed Obama would take most independents and some Republicans from McCain. I'm not so sure anymore. I think the Reverend Wright controversy and the like has soured a lot of that swing vote I assumed Obama would get.

Hell, during the Texas primary, I knew some dyed-in-the-wool Republicans that were voting for Obama, and not as part of Operation Chaos or any nefarious plan, but because they liked his style of politics. I am not so sure that Obama gets those votes in the general anymore. I think the Trinity Church mess destroyed whatever headway Obama had made with those Republicans and independents.

[Nbadan]

Well, initially I assumed Obama would take most independents and some Republicans from McCain. I'm not so sure anymore. I think the Reverend Wright controversy and the like has soured a lot of that swing vote I assumed Obama would get.

I think your likely 'wright'....but on the other hand, a lot of traditional Republican supporters feel slighted by the globalist Bush administration and if they don't swing for Obama in November they are very likely to stay home...

[Oh, Gee!!]

Who's gonna tell Hillary. I think she's gonna hold out.