duncan228
06-04-2008, 09:03 AM
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bird-magic-finals-2058728-johnson-lakers
Friendly rivals Magic, Bird talk NBA Finals past and present
Larry Bird and Magic Johnson reminisce about their epic Celtics-Lakers NBA Finals battles and discuss this season's series.
By ADAM MAYA
Magic Johnson and Larry Bird are good friends. Now.
“When the ball went up, everything was off,” Bird said. “In the summertime, I geared everything to playing in the finals against the Lakers. You hear about players having dinner after games. That was never going to happen.”
Magic added: “During the regular season, (Boston is) all we watched. Where’s the Celtics? We didn’t even celebrate the Western Conference finals.”
The two NBA legends traded barbs throughout a teleconference today, noting their friendship began with a Converse shoe commercial in 1984 because, as Magic said, “His mother can cook very well.”
But two years later Magic let Bird down.
“I can remember when Ralph Sampson hit that shot (in 1986),” Bird said. “All of us got down a little bit because we weren’t going to be able to beat the Lakers again.”
How can the Boston do that this time around? Bird said it will be decided by whichever team handles the pressure better, giving the Lakers the early edge because of Bryant’s experience. Johnson said the series will be decided not by Bryant or Boston’s Paul Pierce, both of whom he expects to play well, but “the other guys.”
The finals matchup everyone and his father has been waiting for is finally here.
“Even though the names have changed and the coaches have changed, when you think about the fans around the world, if you were to ask them what teams they want to see in the final,” Johnson said, “they would pick these two teams.”
Transcript of Bird, Magic teleconference
Check out what Larry Bird and Magic Johnson had to say about their rivalry, their friendship and the Lakers-Celtics series.
By KEVIN TRUDGEON
Host Marc Broussard – Welcome everyone to today's special conference call with regard to the 2008 NBA Finals. We're joined by Hall of Famers Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, who will join us to discuss this year's finals as well as the history and mystique surrounding the rivalry between the Lakers and the Celtics. At this point I'd like to ask each of them to make a brief comment about this year's finals and their career battling against each other.
Magic Johnson– First of all it's always a pleasure to get with and be on the phone with Larry. I think when we both came into the NBA and our respective teams, we probably both didn't know that we would jump start the NBA to what it is today and that we would be able to play for two storied and historical franchises like Boston and Los Angeles. And then to be able to take the league, and I'm sure Larry would laugh at this too, when I first played my rookie year in the championship, it was tape-delayed and now we're on prime time on ABC, the league has really moved upwards and forward. It was just great to be able to play against Larry so many times, as well as the Celtics.
Johnson, continued– I think the main thing was is that we were a team. We knew that Boston was one of the most incredible teams that would run their offense to perfection. I thought that they were the best at running their offense and executing on their offensive end. And on their defense they always played a great team defense and then they had one of the best probably individual defensive people to ever play in the league, that being Dennis Johnson, so I had to match up against him. And boy, that was a tough match-up every time. But I knew that Larry Bird could beat us at any time, I knew that he was one player that there was nothing that we could do with him. He was going to score, he was going to get his rebounds, he was going to get his assists and then his will to win was higher than everybody else's.
Johnson, continued– The thing that I tell people that Larry had that was probably unmatched with anybody is he knew how to make other player better. I think that still today that nobody has surpassed him when it comes to that and also being so smart at the game, and knowing how to play the angles and to always be on balance. It was just great to be a part of that hated rivalry for so many years, but the main thing is that the cities disliked each other, the teams disliked each other, but we respected each other, because we knew that they were so talented a team and also well coached and then on the other side, we felt that we were the same way.
Johnson, continued– I'm just happy to see these new Lakers in the championship with these new Celtics. Because it's really not about Larry and I now, it's of course about what we've built over the years, but now, this is their stage. It's Kobe's stage, Garnett's stage, Paul Pierce's stage, Ray Allen's stage, it's Gasol's stage and Odom's stage. And so, they will take advantage of it and it's Doc Rivers' and Phil Jackson's stage. Even though the names have changed and coaches, when you think about the most fans around the world who watch basketball, if you ask them what teams they would want to see in the finals, they would pick these two teams.
Larry Bird– If you really look at the history of the NBA at these finals, the Celtics-Lakers have combined for half of the championships that have been played over the years. And when you think of the Celtics-Lakers, it don't start with me and Magic, it goes back to the '50s-'60s with Russell and Chamberlain and then we had a period of a couple of decades before we really got back into the finals against each other. I just think it's great for the league, it's great for basketball. I think both teams last summer made great deals to give their teams the opportunity to get back to finals and they're there now and like Magic said, it's their stage.
Bird, continued– I really felt bad doing this press conference, because I felt that it's really the players of today's game and that's what they should be focusing on. It really doesn't matter what happened in the '80s or '50s or '60s, it's about what's happening now. They're on a big stage and it's the first time in the finals for a lot of the guys and it's going to be interesting to see how they perform with the pressure on them. There's going to be new situations they've never been in with media, the pressures at the crucial times of the game and it's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. But over the years, being able to play against a guy like Magic Johnson, it was really an honor to play against the Lakers and some of the greatest teams that were every put together in this league. It was extraordinary. It was great competition, it was battles every game. You knew if you didn't play good your team was going to win and I just feel really honored of having that opportunity, with the great teammates that I had, to compete against a team that was either better or equal level as we were. So it was an extraordinary time, but I'm really happy for Danny Ainge and the Celtics and I look forward to them winning another championship.
Question– As an old Celtic do you think that the old Lakers-Celtic rivalry got into Kevin McHale's decision to trade Kevin Garnett to Boston as opposed to the Lakers who had reportedly offered them Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum?
Bird– I don't think so. I think that as they went through the summer and really thought about, Garnett at that time didn't want to leave and Kevin didn't want to trade him, and I think other people got involved and decided that the best way to go was young and try to trade him. And knowing Danny, he was probably in Kevin's ear every day an and it was probably the last one to call got it and so I think Kevin really liked the players that Boston had and that's really why the deal was made.
Question– Some of the players that are in this series have talked about their memories from the Celtics-Lakers from when they were little kids and you guys were probably about the same age during the Lakers-Celtics rivalry in the '60s, especially the late '60s. Do you guys have any memories from that rivalry like some of the guys like Paul Pierce have now about your rivalry in the '80s?
Johnson– It's hard to call it a rivalry when you don't win. Year after year the Celtics kept beating the Lakers. And I think that, it was an incredible series, but Bill Russell kept ended up winning and I always admired Bill and Wilt Chamberlain, but Bill would always get the best of him. And my dad was a big Wilt fan, but it was hard to call it a rivalry because again, the Celtics always won.
Bird– Well, I watched some of it, but not a lot of it, but I was very aware of the history between Russell and Chamberlain. The funny thing now is Luke Walton and Bill Walton, Bill played for us in '86, and Luke was a diehard Celtics fan, now he's playing for the Lakers. And Paul Pierce grew up in L.A. rooting for the Lakers and now he's with the Celtics, so it's going to be very interesting.
Question– Paul Pierce is probably going to go down as one of the greatest pure scorers in Boston history, but obviously on a Boston team you're defined by your championships. If Boston was to win this title, where in your mind would Paul Pierce go down as in terms of the Celtics greats, where in your mind would position him?
Bird– Well in Boston, they always talk about how many championships you've won. I think it's important for Paul to win one if he wants to be put up there with great ones, even though I think that he's a fantastic player, probably one of the best players to ever come through there. But, Boston's been blessed with a lot of great players, a lot of great Hall of Famers over the years, so it's really hard to put on guy on top of the other. I can tell you every player that went through there and made the Hall of Fame looks at Bill Russell. He'll always be No. 1 there and the rest just fall in line.
Question– Has it been hard or surprising for you both to kind of see this rivalry fall to the side and having not really played meaningful games against each other? And do you think these players understand this rivalry the way you did?
Johnson– I think it's always hard when you play for an organization as long as we played and not see them do well. Every great franchise must go through down times and they've been down, but the mark of a truly great franchise is to come back and they have. Will they understand the rivalry? Trust me, when that ball goes up on Thursday they'll understand. It might not be what we went through, Larry and I, but they'll have their own rivalry because it's for all the marbles, it's for everything. So it doesn't matter if they understand the rivalry or not, they're going to create their own new rivalry right on Thursday night.
Bird– Yeah, and I agree with that. I think that these young male athletes definitely have something to play for that they've never played for, especially on the Boston team. Even though they're great players and have great stats, for a lot of years, they haven't been able to get to the finals and play for the big prize and I think that they have an opportunity. They can't wait around for the second or third game 'til they get comfortable to start playing well. You can't let games go by and waste them. That's one thing they'll have to figure out Thursday night is every game means something, there's going to be a lot of highs and lows and you can't lose your confidence.
Question– I've been watching the '84 Finals on ESPN Classic this week, and I've really been struck in the difference in the style of play. You guys were pushing the ball upcourt on a rebound on a made shot, guys were taking quick shots, there wasn't much isolation, nobody really dominated the ball. It just looked like a more exciting, more enjoyable, freer way of playing the game. What do you think of the style of play today and can it ever get back to the way it was, back in the '80s and if so, what's it going to take to get it back to that?
Johnson– You have to remember that the way we played was all about running and getting up and down the court. And then, we built our team basically watching Celtics, who with Larry and them, they had so many shooters not only on the court but also coming off the bench. They were coming in with Danny and Chris Ford and on and on and on. Not only could they rebound and defend, but they could get out on the break and they didn't run as fast as us, but they ran with a purpose and that purpose was to get it in Larry's hands and let him make a decision, after D.J. of course had brought it down the court. They ran with a purpose in terms of scoring, getting it to their main man and letting him make the decisions.
Johnson, continued– On our part, the Lakers got it into my hands and we were all about running on makes, misses, it didn't matter. We were coming at you because we knew that's how we could win. Well, the Celtics had a lot better half-court team than we had because a lot more guys could score. We really had two dominant half-court players in James Worthy and Kareem, but they had three guys that could really just dominate. Can it get back? Yes, because you're seeing all these great point guards coming into the league, you think about Paul, you think about Tony Parker, Williams … you've got all these great point guards, not only in the West, but in the East, too. I think you're starting to see that's becoming more up and down. We look at the East, and probably the Celtics started it, now they're running more. It's not like we've seen in the last 3-4 years, and Larry can probably talk more about that. But I've seen the East really pick up the pace too. It's fun getting up and down, but we must get more shooters, the Larry's and Paxson's. We don't have enough guys shooting. I'm talking about on a consistent basis. It seems like that's what the game is missing, now that we've finally got point guards back in, they're not scoring point guards but pass-first point guards.
Bird– If you noticed in the games back then whoever got the rebound back then, other than Parrish or McHale, would take two or three dribbles up court to advance the ball as quick as possible. A lot of times on made shots, we would get it out and try to advance the ball three quarters of the court, to get the break running to try and get the defense sucked into the paint so that our trailers were involved, just get some better movement with the court open. We were a running team, the one thing I thought we might have had an advantage on the Lakers is if we could ever get them in a half-court game (Magic laughs) they had the rebounding the kick it to Magic, who was always on the move, never standing still, that puts a lot pressure on the defense. Easy baskets, not sure how many fast break points we averaged back then, but we got a lot more easy baskets and if we can get it down court, and get the defense off-balance and get some mismatches. I think the game can get back to that, but you obviously need players and both of us played with Hall of Fame players, so that game probably looked a little different because of the talent that we had.
Johnson– And one more thing on that, is that a lot of times you might see an outlet but the ball never touch the ground.
Question– Was it special playing each other and what was it like for the other guys on the team, aside from the personal rivalry. Was it always fun to play the Lakers and Celtics?
Johnson– Well Larry and I, I don't know if we…I think it's funny because I never had a personal rivalry against Larry because to me, and I'm sure it was for him too, it was always the Celtics vs. the Lakers. We never really guarded each other, so it wasn't really a personal rivalry in terms of I'm trying to go at Larry or something. I think it was, again, Larry and I were always the focal point, but I think Larry made a good point, when you think about the Hall of Famers, it was really Larry vs. Cooper to me. It was James Worth and McHale, Parrish and Kareem. My rivalry really was with D.J. in a sense. That's how I look at it. When they beat us the first time in '84 I think it was, I was devastated. I went into hiding for about a month and sat in the dark and I was just so mad and upset because the Celtics beat the Lakers once again, I think that made us 0 for 8 or 0 for 9 and it was really hard for us. And then we got the chance to come back in '85 and finally beat them. But I don't know if Larry and I ever had it personal between each other, for me it was more just the Celtics vs. the Lakers.
Bird– No question about that, it wasn't about me and Magic, it was about our teams. The question was about our teammates, and I know our guys were into it. They talked more, they always had something to say, they'd come up with nicknames for the Laker players and everything was geared for getting to the finals. Some of it was just completely out of control but they knew the history behind it all and they wanted to play good and win. My teammates were into it, and yeah there was a lot of talking going on, no question about that. But it was never really between me and Magic, it was always the Celtics and Lakers and that's really how we were taught. My coach was K.C. Jones, and it was never about the individuals, it was always about the teams.
Johnson– And Pat Riley was the same way and I'm sorry I didn't get to that one. Our team was into it, too, big time. I mean we didn't sleep for two weeks playing them. We talked about it every day, actually, and Larry probably felt the same way, during the regular season, that's all we watched, 'Where's the Celtics, where's the Celtics, did they win last night.' Because basically, at the end of the day, and I'm sure Larry was the same way, we didn't even celebrate winning the Western Conference finals, it was about winning a championship, it was about where's Boston, looking forward to playing them and that's how our team always was, we wanted to play the best and that was the Celtics.
Question– How much would it help to watch the best teams of yesteryear?
Johnson– Players today think it's their time, their way and they want to do it. When we played, the shoe deals were small. There was no earring or tattoos. The shorts were hot pants. The money we made then is so different from today. It evolves. They shouldn't have to look at us to change how they play. They should just know that somebody built the league to where it is and they should leave it in better state for the next hands.
Bird– If you play for the Celtics or Lakers, it won't take long for the media and fans to let you know who came before. As you got into the league for a couple years, you're going to find out about the history. When two teams like that have that much history, it won't take long to figure it out.
Question– If you could give your personal highlight from the Lakers-Celtics rivalry.
Bird– Mine was in '84. We had to change our tactics and try to play a rough game and tough game. I think it was pretty incredible how everyone changed. For us to win that '84 championship was pretty mind-boggling for us to change and win that series.
Johnson– The Celtics taught us that we had talent, that we were great but we weren't mentally tough and we had to get tougher; '85 was special for me, not shooting the skyhook in '87, because without' 85 we don't get to '87. Kareem having an unbelievable series, which was great.
Question– If you go back to the '87 postseason, Larry you had such a hard road to get there and Robert and Kevin were hobbling, do you see any similarities between you guys and the Celtics now. And Magic, did you take advantage?
Bird– When we got to '87, the Lakers had a better team than we did and they proved that. McHale cracked his ankle in the first or second series and Robert was hurting. I can remember we didn't win in sweeps, a lot of them went 6 or 7 games. We weren't at full strength but we still had the desire and competitive edge to compete.
Johnson– We thought they had a short bench and we felt that if we kept going at the pace we'd wear them down. But we knew Larry would always get his guys ready to play and they were ready. It still took us that shot to go up 3-1. Even in the close out game, Larry and them were leading all the way through the third quarter. They executed and still played there game, but I don't think they could really just keep up with us.
Question– Can you talk about how the rivalry in the '80s helped shape the game to what it is today?
Bird– If you remember in '83 Philadelphia had a great team. Jordan comes into the league with Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone and john Stockton. There was an abundance of talent that came in a period of about 5-6 years there that really just took the league
Question– Larry what do you think Red would think about the Lakers playing the Celtics and Phil about to break his record. And Magic, talk about Kobe?
Bird– No question Red would be very happy with what's transpired. He was always about winning and all about championships. He'd be thrilled to death right now, probably not be able to sleep and be as nervous as the players.
Johnson– I think that he's probably happy, just like the Laker organization, that nobody got traded. Mitch did a great job, as did Dr. Buss, he just had to be patient and you saw what happened with Farmar and Bynum and Sasha. And then Mitch pulls off, I think signing Fisher was probably the biggest move we made aside form Gasol. And then Kobe got that feeling once Gasol go here that we could win a championship. And right now he's having an MVP-type playoff up to this point. He's determined and focused and all basketball fans are happy he stayed. I think that the fans are going to be in for a treat. And last point I want to make is that a lot of fans that watched Larry and I who haven't been watching the NBA as much are going to come back and watch this series. It's great that we are talking about the Lakers and the Celtics again. The NBA is going to grow
Question– Thoughts on this finals?
Bird– For so much that goes on that the outside world doesn't see. It's all the little things that you have to be on top of. One thing that I see in this series that I think can hurt the Celtics is Kobe Bryant who's been there before.
Johnson– I think when you look at it it's going to come down to, 'cause you know Kobe is going to play well and I think Paul will play well. Whoever wins those battles is who I think is going to win the series. I think this series is going to be the same.
Question– How'd your relationship change and grow?
Johnson– The great thing is his mother could cook very well. We were standing there and we went up to Larry's house and his mother cooked and spent some good time together. By lunch time we were really able to talk, get to know each other, we were both from the Midwest both from family's that were really close. I think it changed my view, as far as Larry is concerned. Remember Larry, we killed the starters, we were on the second team but we always beat the starters in scrimmages. We've been doing things and keeping contact with each other.
Bird– Back in '84 when we shot that commercial, we really didn't know each other. When the ball went up, everything was off. I know in the summer time, I geared everything to playing the Lakers. We were too competitive; we left all that stuff for the summer time. I just had so much respect for him, how he handled himself. He was the man with the ball and he was making the decisions.
(Transcript link)
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/lakers/abox/article_2058803.php
Friendly rivals Magic, Bird talk NBA Finals past and present
Larry Bird and Magic Johnson reminisce about their epic Celtics-Lakers NBA Finals battles and discuss this season's series.
By ADAM MAYA
Magic Johnson and Larry Bird are good friends. Now.
“When the ball went up, everything was off,” Bird said. “In the summertime, I geared everything to playing in the finals against the Lakers. You hear about players having dinner after games. That was never going to happen.”
Magic added: “During the regular season, (Boston is) all we watched. Where’s the Celtics? We didn’t even celebrate the Western Conference finals.”
The two NBA legends traded barbs throughout a teleconference today, noting their friendship began with a Converse shoe commercial in 1984 because, as Magic said, “His mother can cook very well.”
But two years later Magic let Bird down.
“I can remember when Ralph Sampson hit that shot (in 1986),” Bird said. “All of us got down a little bit because we weren’t going to be able to beat the Lakers again.”
How can the Boston do that this time around? Bird said it will be decided by whichever team handles the pressure better, giving the Lakers the early edge because of Bryant’s experience. Johnson said the series will be decided not by Bryant or Boston’s Paul Pierce, both of whom he expects to play well, but “the other guys.”
The finals matchup everyone and his father has been waiting for is finally here.
“Even though the names have changed and the coaches have changed, when you think about the fans around the world, if you were to ask them what teams they want to see in the final,” Johnson said, “they would pick these two teams.”
Transcript of Bird, Magic teleconference
Check out what Larry Bird and Magic Johnson had to say about their rivalry, their friendship and the Lakers-Celtics series.
By KEVIN TRUDGEON
Host Marc Broussard – Welcome everyone to today's special conference call with regard to the 2008 NBA Finals. We're joined by Hall of Famers Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, who will join us to discuss this year's finals as well as the history and mystique surrounding the rivalry between the Lakers and the Celtics. At this point I'd like to ask each of them to make a brief comment about this year's finals and their career battling against each other.
Magic Johnson– First of all it's always a pleasure to get with and be on the phone with Larry. I think when we both came into the NBA and our respective teams, we probably both didn't know that we would jump start the NBA to what it is today and that we would be able to play for two storied and historical franchises like Boston and Los Angeles. And then to be able to take the league, and I'm sure Larry would laugh at this too, when I first played my rookie year in the championship, it was tape-delayed and now we're on prime time on ABC, the league has really moved upwards and forward. It was just great to be able to play against Larry so many times, as well as the Celtics.
Johnson, continued– I think the main thing was is that we were a team. We knew that Boston was one of the most incredible teams that would run their offense to perfection. I thought that they were the best at running their offense and executing on their offensive end. And on their defense they always played a great team defense and then they had one of the best probably individual defensive people to ever play in the league, that being Dennis Johnson, so I had to match up against him. And boy, that was a tough match-up every time. But I knew that Larry Bird could beat us at any time, I knew that he was one player that there was nothing that we could do with him. He was going to score, he was going to get his rebounds, he was going to get his assists and then his will to win was higher than everybody else's.
Johnson, continued– The thing that I tell people that Larry had that was probably unmatched with anybody is he knew how to make other player better. I think that still today that nobody has surpassed him when it comes to that and also being so smart at the game, and knowing how to play the angles and to always be on balance. It was just great to be a part of that hated rivalry for so many years, but the main thing is that the cities disliked each other, the teams disliked each other, but we respected each other, because we knew that they were so talented a team and also well coached and then on the other side, we felt that we were the same way.
Johnson, continued– I'm just happy to see these new Lakers in the championship with these new Celtics. Because it's really not about Larry and I now, it's of course about what we've built over the years, but now, this is their stage. It's Kobe's stage, Garnett's stage, Paul Pierce's stage, Ray Allen's stage, it's Gasol's stage and Odom's stage. And so, they will take advantage of it and it's Doc Rivers' and Phil Jackson's stage. Even though the names have changed and coaches, when you think about the most fans around the world who watch basketball, if you ask them what teams they would want to see in the finals, they would pick these two teams.
Larry Bird– If you really look at the history of the NBA at these finals, the Celtics-Lakers have combined for half of the championships that have been played over the years. And when you think of the Celtics-Lakers, it don't start with me and Magic, it goes back to the '50s-'60s with Russell and Chamberlain and then we had a period of a couple of decades before we really got back into the finals against each other. I just think it's great for the league, it's great for basketball. I think both teams last summer made great deals to give their teams the opportunity to get back to finals and they're there now and like Magic said, it's their stage.
Bird, continued– I really felt bad doing this press conference, because I felt that it's really the players of today's game and that's what they should be focusing on. It really doesn't matter what happened in the '80s or '50s or '60s, it's about what's happening now. They're on a big stage and it's the first time in the finals for a lot of the guys and it's going to be interesting to see how they perform with the pressure on them. There's going to be new situations they've never been in with media, the pressures at the crucial times of the game and it's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. But over the years, being able to play against a guy like Magic Johnson, it was really an honor to play against the Lakers and some of the greatest teams that were every put together in this league. It was extraordinary. It was great competition, it was battles every game. You knew if you didn't play good your team was going to win and I just feel really honored of having that opportunity, with the great teammates that I had, to compete against a team that was either better or equal level as we were. So it was an extraordinary time, but I'm really happy for Danny Ainge and the Celtics and I look forward to them winning another championship.
Question– As an old Celtic do you think that the old Lakers-Celtic rivalry got into Kevin McHale's decision to trade Kevin Garnett to Boston as opposed to the Lakers who had reportedly offered them Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum?
Bird– I don't think so. I think that as they went through the summer and really thought about, Garnett at that time didn't want to leave and Kevin didn't want to trade him, and I think other people got involved and decided that the best way to go was young and try to trade him. And knowing Danny, he was probably in Kevin's ear every day an and it was probably the last one to call got it and so I think Kevin really liked the players that Boston had and that's really why the deal was made.
Question– Some of the players that are in this series have talked about their memories from the Celtics-Lakers from when they were little kids and you guys were probably about the same age during the Lakers-Celtics rivalry in the '60s, especially the late '60s. Do you guys have any memories from that rivalry like some of the guys like Paul Pierce have now about your rivalry in the '80s?
Johnson– It's hard to call it a rivalry when you don't win. Year after year the Celtics kept beating the Lakers. And I think that, it was an incredible series, but Bill Russell kept ended up winning and I always admired Bill and Wilt Chamberlain, but Bill would always get the best of him. And my dad was a big Wilt fan, but it was hard to call it a rivalry because again, the Celtics always won.
Bird– Well, I watched some of it, but not a lot of it, but I was very aware of the history between Russell and Chamberlain. The funny thing now is Luke Walton and Bill Walton, Bill played for us in '86, and Luke was a diehard Celtics fan, now he's playing for the Lakers. And Paul Pierce grew up in L.A. rooting for the Lakers and now he's with the Celtics, so it's going to be very interesting.
Question– Paul Pierce is probably going to go down as one of the greatest pure scorers in Boston history, but obviously on a Boston team you're defined by your championships. If Boston was to win this title, where in your mind would Paul Pierce go down as in terms of the Celtics greats, where in your mind would position him?
Bird– Well in Boston, they always talk about how many championships you've won. I think it's important for Paul to win one if he wants to be put up there with great ones, even though I think that he's a fantastic player, probably one of the best players to ever come through there. But, Boston's been blessed with a lot of great players, a lot of great Hall of Famers over the years, so it's really hard to put on guy on top of the other. I can tell you every player that went through there and made the Hall of Fame looks at Bill Russell. He'll always be No. 1 there and the rest just fall in line.
Question– Has it been hard or surprising for you both to kind of see this rivalry fall to the side and having not really played meaningful games against each other? And do you think these players understand this rivalry the way you did?
Johnson– I think it's always hard when you play for an organization as long as we played and not see them do well. Every great franchise must go through down times and they've been down, but the mark of a truly great franchise is to come back and they have. Will they understand the rivalry? Trust me, when that ball goes up on Thursday they'll understand. It might not be what we went through, Larry and I, but they'll have their own rivalry because it's for all the marbles, it's for everything. So it doesn't matter if they understand the rivalry or not, they're going to create their own new rivalry right on Thursday night.
Bird– Yeah, and I agree with that. I think that these young male athletes definitely have something to play for that they've never played for, especially on the Boston team. Even though they're great players and have great stats, for a lot of years, they haven't been able to get to the finals and play for the big prize and I think that they have an opportunity. They can't wait around for the second or third game 'til they get comfortable to start playing well. You can't let games go by and waste them. That's one thing they'll have to figure out Thursday night is every game means something, there's going to be a lot of highs and lows and you can't lose your confidence.
Question– I've been watching the '84 Finals on ESPN Classic this week, and I've really been struck in the difference in the style of play. You guys were pushing the ball upcourt on a rebound on a made shot, guys were taking quick shots, there wasn't much isolation, nobody really dominated the ball. It just looked like a more exciting, more enjoyable, freer way of playing the game. What do you think of the style of play today and can it ever get back to the way it was, back in the '80s and if so, what's it going to take to get it back to that?
Johnson– You have to remember that the way we played was all about running and getting up and down the court. And then, we built our team basically watching Celtics, who with Larry and them, they had so many shooters not only on the court but also coming off the bench. They were coming in with Danny and Chris Ford and on and on and on. Not only could they rebound and defend, but they could get out on the break and they didn't run as fast as us, but they ran with a purpose and that purpose was to get it in Larry's hands and let him make a decision, after D.J. of course had brought it down the court. They ran with a purpose in terms of scoring, getting it to their main man and letting him make the decisions.
Johnson, continued– On our part, the Lakers got it into my hands and we were all about running on makes, misses, it didn't matter. We were coming at you because we knew that's how we could win. Well, the Celtics had a lot better half-court team than we had because a lot more guys could score. We really had two dominant half-court players in James Worthy and Kareem, but they had three guys that could really just dominate. Can it get back? Yes, because you're seeing all these great point guards coming into the league, you think about Paul, you think about Tony Parker, Williams … you've got all these great point guards, not only in the West, but in the East, too. I think you're starting to see that's becoming more up and down. We look at the East, and probably the Celtics started it, now they're running more. It's not like we've seen in the last 3-4 years, and Larry can probably talk more about that. But I've seen the East really pick up the pace too. It's fun getting up and down, but we must get more shooters, the Larry's and Paxson's. We don't have enough guys shooting. I'm talking about on a consistent basis. It seems like that's what the game is missing, now that we've finally got point guards back in, they're not scoring point guards but pass-first point guards.
Bird– If you noticed in the games back then whoever got the rebound back then, other than Parrish or McHale, would take two or three dribbles up court to advance the ball as quick as possible. A lot of times on made shots, we would get it out and try to advance the ball three quarters of the court, to get the break running to try and get the defense sucked into the paint so that our trailers were involved, just get some better movement with the court open. We were a running team, the one thing I thought we might have had an advantage on the Lakers is if we could ever get them in a half-court game (Magic laughs) they had the rebounding the kick it to Magic, who was always on the move, never standing still, that puts a lot pressure on the defense. Easy baskets, not sure how many fast break points we averaged back then, but we got a lot more easy baskets and if we can get it down court, and get the defense off-balance and get some mismatches. I think the game can get back to that, but you obviously need players and both of us played with Hall of Fame players, so that game probably looked a little different because of the talent that we had.
Johnson– And one more thing on that, is that a lot of times you might see an outlet but the ball never touch the ground.
Question– Was it special playing each other and what was it like for the other guys on the team, aside from the personal rivalry. Was it always fun to play the Lakers and Celtics?
Johnson– Well Larry and I, I don't know if we…I think it's funny because I never had a personal rivalry against Larry because to me, and I'm sure it was for him too, it was always the Celtics vs. the Lakers. We never really guarded each other, so it wasn't really a personal rivalry in terms of I'm trying to go at Larry or something. I think it was, again, Larry and I were always the focal point, but I think Larry made a good point, when you think about the Hall of Famers, it was really Larry vs. Cooper to me. It was James Worth and McHale, Parrish and Kareem. My rivalry really was with D.J. in a sense. That's how I look at it. When they beat us the first time in '84 I think it was, I was devastated. I went into hiding for about a month and sat in the dark and I was just so mad and upset because the Celtics beat the Lakers once again, I think that made us 0 for 8 or 0 for 9 and it was really hard for us. And then we got the chance to come back in '85 and finally beat them. But I don't know if Larry and I ever had it personal between each other, for me it was more just the Celtics vs. the Lakers.
Bird– No question about that, it wasn't about me and Magic, it was about our teams. The question was about our teammates, and I know our guys were into it. They talked more, they always had something to say, they'd come up with nicknames for the Laker players and everything was geared for getting to the finals. Some of it was just completely out of control but they knew the history behind it all and they wanted to play good and win. My teammates were into it, and yeah there was a lot of talking going on, no question about that. But it was never really between me and Magic, it was always the Celtics and Lakers and that's really how we were taught. My coach was K.C. Jones, and it was never about the individuals, it was always about the teams.
Johnson– And Pat Riley was the same way and I'm sorry I didn't get to that one. Our team was into it, too, big time. I mean we didn't sleep for two weeks playing them. We talked about it every day, actually, and Larry probably felt the same way, during the regular season, that's all we watched, 'Where's the Celtics, where's the Celtics, did they win last night.' Because basically, at the end of the day, and I'm sure Larry was the same way, we didn't even celebrate winning the Western Conference finals, it was about winning a championship, it was about where's Boston, looking forward to playing them and that's how our team always was, we wanted to play the best and that was the Celtics.
Question– How much would it help to watch the best teams of yesteryear?
Johnson– Players today think it's their time, their way and they want to do it. When we played, the shoe deals were small. There was no earring or tattoos. The shorts were hot pants. The money we made then is so different from today. It evolves. They shouldn't have to look at us to change how they play. They should just know that somebody built the league to where it is and they should leave it in better state for the next hands.
Bird– If you play for the Celtics or Lakers, it won't take long for the media and fans to let you know who came before. As you got into the league for a couple years, you're going to find out about the history. When two teams like that have that much history, it won't take long to figure it out.
Question– If you could give your personal highlight from the Lakers-Celtics rivalry.
Bird– Mine was in '84. We had to change our tactics and try to play a rough game and tough game. I think it was pretty incredible how everyone changed. For us to win that '84 championship was pretty mind-boggling for us to change and win that series.
Johnson– The Celtics taught us that we had talent, that we were great but we weren't mentally tough and we had to get tougher; '85 was special for me, not shooting the skyhook in '87, because without' 85 we don't get to '87. Kareem having an unbelievable series, which was great.
Question– If you go back to the '87 postseason, Larry you had such a hard road to get there and Robert and Kevin were hobbling, do you see any similarities between you guys and the Celtics now. And Magic, did you take advantage?
Bird– When we got to '87, the Lakers had a better team than we did and they proved that. McHale cracked his ankle in the first or second series and Robert was hurting. I can remember we didn't win in sweeps, a lot of them went 6 or 7 games. We weren't at full strength but we still had the desire and competitive edge to compete.
Johnson– We thought they had a short bench and we felt that if we kept going at the pace we'd wear them down. But we knew Larry would always get his guys ready to play and they were ready. It still took us that shot to go up 3-1. Even in the close out game, Larry and them were leading all the way through the third quarter. They executed and still played there game, but I don't think they could really just keep up with us.
Question– Can you talk about how the rivalry in the '80s helped shape the game to what it is today?
Bird– If you remember in '83 Philadelphia had a great team. Jordan comes into the league with Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone and john Stockton. There was an abundance of talent that came in a period of about 5-6 years there that really just took the league
Question– Larry what do you think Red would think about the Lakers playing the Celtics and Phil about to break his record. And Magic, talk about Kobe?
Bird– No question Red would be very happy with what's transpired. He was always about winning and all about championships. He'd be thrilled to death right now, probably not be able to sleep and be as nervous as the players.
Johnson– I think that he's probably happy, just like the Laker organization, that nobody got traded. Mitch did a great job, as did Dr. Buss, he just had to be patient and you saw what happened with Farmar and Bynum and Sasha. And then Mitch pulls off, I think signing Fisher was probably the biggest move we made aside form Gasol. And then Kobe got that feeling once Gasol go here that we could win a championship. And right now he's having an MVP-type playoff up to this point. He's determined and focused and all basketball fans are happy he stayed. I think that the fans are going to be in for a treat. And last point I want to make is that a lot of fans that watched Larry and I who haven't been watching the NBA as much are going to come back and watch this series. It's great that we are talking about the Lakers and the Celtics again. The NBA is going to grow
Question– Thoughts on this finals?
Bird– For so much that goes on that the outside world doesn't see. It's all the little things that you have to be on top of. One thing that I see in this series that I think can hurt the Celtics is Kobe Bryant who's been there before.
Johnson– I think when you look at it it's going to come down to, 'cause you know Kobe is going to play well and I think Paul will play well. Whoever wins those battles is who I think is going to win the series. I think this series is going to be the same.
Question– How'd your relationship change and grow?
Johnson– The great thing is his mother could cook very well. We were standing there and we went up to Larry's house and his mother cooked and spent some good time together. By lunch time we were really able to talk, get to know each other, we were both from the Midwest both from family's that were really close. I think it changed my view, as far as Larry is concerned. Remember Larry, we killed the starters, we were on the second team but we always beat the starters in scrimmages. We've been doing things and keeping contact with each other.
Bird– Back in '84 when we shot that commercial, we really didn't know each other. When the ball went up, everything was off. I know in the summer time, I geared everything to playing the Lakers. We were too competitive; we left all that stuff for the summer time. I just had so much respect for him, how he handled himself. He was the man with the ball and he was making the decisions.
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