OK Splitter is gone... So now what?

[SPURSGOAT]

We need a big and can't afford to wait until 2010.. We can't go through anoher season like the last... heck next time we might get dumped in the 2nd round if we do that. Getting a wing, backup PG, and such will help, but we really need help for Timmy. I was getting pissed during the playoffs watching Tim have to fight off two 7 footers... pretty much on his own in the middle...Having his hands full with Chandler and having no one that could do anything against West. :bang

[kobyz]

Ian - maybe he is ready to a starting job

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The only sensible solution is Diop.

[SPURSGOAT]

The only sensible solution is Diop.

I agree! Diop!

[Blackjack]

Candace Parker.

I think it's safe to say that she's got more balls than Splitter.

[TDMVPDPOY]

we should obviously give javtokas another look....

[timvp]

http://www.spurstalk.com/the-savior.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Now we need a You Don't Mess with the Zsorryon photoshop to pimp our minicamp participant.

[SPURSGOAT]

http://www.spurstalk.com/the-savior.jpg

I sure hope so. :king:hat

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Spurs better become more proactive this summer.

[timvp]

Now we need a You Don't Mess with the Zsorryon photoshop to pimp our minicamp participant.:lol

I noticed that too when I was looking at his basketball-reference page.

[bigdog]

Ian should be the answer, and if he's not then he might be the closest thing we will get to the answer. He will help Tim automatically based on the fact that he can run and he is athletic. Our current bigs are stiffs. Ian solves this problem right away.

As for the wing, check out the Warriors' wholesale, or go for someone else in FA. It shouldn't be hard to find a guy when you have and full LLE and MLE to offer, and you can compete for a championship right away. Players should be looking for that opportunity. They should be in the position to get minutes right away since that is one of our needs.

For PG, go to the draft. We can get a decent guy in the draft. Keep JV. He's a solid backup, and a great defender. Sure, he can't shoot very well but that's what we have Manu and Barry for.

[Bruno]

So last summer the consensus here was that Ian was a huge scrub and now he is the Saviour/Answer.... :downspin:

Splitter staying in Spain is quite a disaster. It pretty much fucked any chance of Spurs making a solid rebuilding plan this summer.

Baring a miracle, Spurs will be one step behind to teams next year. We will have to deal with that.

[timvp]

So last summer the consensus here was that Ian was a huge scrub and now he is the Saviour/Answer.... :downspin:Funny what desperation does. (oh and a decent year in the D-League)


Splitter staying in Spain is quite a disaster. It pretty much fucked any chance of Spurs making a solid rebuilding plan this summer.

Baring a miracle, Spurs will be one step behind to teams next year. We will have to deal with that.Eh it's a blow but I don't think it changes much. If Splitter comes, the Spurs were either going to not re-sign Thomas or re-sign Thomas and trade Bonner. Now the Spurs will just re-sign Thomas. Maybe add Horry (or random young big like O'Bryant or Benson) for insurance.

I don't think the Spurs can or should go shopping for a Splitter replacement. He would have been damn nice but now the Spurs basically just have to use the Oberto and Thomas stopgap and pray Mahinmi is ahead of schedule and Bonner can earn Pop's trust.

There is a chance the Spurs could be better off if Mahinmi comes in and can start playing better than expected. If Splitter were coming, Mahinmi wouldn't have gotten minutes this year and maybe would have been traded.

Before and after Splitter, I think Spurs need to focus their resources on the swingman positions. That said, I'm now prepared for RC to throw the whole MLE at Diop to make up for the Splitter fiasco and then just compound the problems :rolleyes

[polandprzem]

Throw MLE on Diop and stay with 47 year old swings

[kobyz]

Diop not good enough

[objective]

Bruno is correct though I'm going further.

The Spurs will be a step below the elite teams in the NBA next season barring some miracle re: Mahinmi or some out of this world draft pull. The other teams joining them on that step will be Dallas and probably Phoenix. 2nd tier = no title. The Spurs window is now just like the Mavs. Shut.

And a Mahinmi miracle isn't just dependant on him, it's dependant on Pop. If Thomas is back forget Mahinmi getting time to even prove himself. And before everyone goes berzerk over how Parker got tons of time when he was 'ready', don't forget Stephen Jackson sat in street clothes while Steve Smith and embarassed himself.

----------

Diop would be the wrong way to go. So would re-signing Thomas. They only have the MLE and should use it on the wings.

It's all or nothing. If Mahinmi doesn't explode Spurs fans can look forward to the long goodbye of the Spurs' twilight.

[Bruno]

Diop would be the wrong way to go. So would re-signing Thomas. They only have the MLE and should use it on the wings.


Agree, Spurs shouldn't try to sign Diop. He isn't that good an will eat a part of the MLE. Spend the MLE and the 26th pick on perimeter players. Spurs should also go after combo forwards like Ryan Gomes.

I'm not a huge fan of Thomas but he has the huge edge that you can re-sign him without using the MLE because Spurs have his Bird rights.

A Duncan/Oberto/Thomas/Bonner/Mahinmi rotation wouldn't be that bad baring Pop decides to give consistent playing time to Bonner and Mahinmi.

The weakness in these plans is that we assume Spurs will be able to re-sign Thomas but Thomas will be an unrestricted free agent and can decide to go elsewhere. I haven't heard something from him saying that he wants to come back in San Antonio next year. If Thomas decides to sign with teams like Dallas or Boston, Spurs are in a deeper hole.

[objective]

If Thomas decides to sign with teams like Dallas or Boston, Spurs are in a deeper hole.

The way I see it the the Spurs are in a deep, deep hole no matter what, and it's a grave they dug for themselves.

If Mahinmi doesn't pan out in a big way I don't see Thomas making a difference in the Spurs winning or losing a title. Maybe a few regular season games, maybe a playoff game, but that's it.

And if Thomas is re-signed I have to re-iterate my belief that such an event would obliterate Mahinmi's opportunities.

Unfortunately Splitter staying in Spain will only force the Spurs to re-sign Thomas in order to save face and over-compensate for the sacrifice of the 2009 first round pick. After re-signing him the front office will send out messages like "See! Thomas is our first round pick, only he's ready to contribute now!" or the like.

Hell there will probably be stories of the how the Spurs management doubted whether Splitter could even make the transition and whether his game would even fit in the NBA and how Kurt Thomas was soooo reliable and smart and how with a full season with him they'll be better off.

[cze1860]

i think so:king

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Let's be optimistic people!

maybe we'll have some providence come our way for the 2009 season.

[silk]

Providence already came our way several times i think, but you are right, let's try to be optimistic ^^

[cze1860]

i don't know!:lol:sleep

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Providence already came our way several times i think, but you are right, let's try to be optimistic ^^

...a lot of opportunities can develop between now and then the mid-season...it's too early to declare that the Spurs are going the way of the Suns and Mavs.

[hsxvvd]

Who else Tau got?

[objective]

...a lot of opportunities can develop between now and then the mid-season...it's too early to declare that the Spurs are going the way of the Suns and Mavs.

It might seem so, maybe it's just Splitter news hysteria. I can see that as a possibility, and maybe after another couple of weeks and with the draft things will seem clearer and less gloomy.

But I'm just going off of the caproom they have, the draft, and the remaining prior draftees, and other conditions.

With the draft, it's much like the Suns who have little to show for any draft since 2003 when they traded for Barbosa. The Spurs problem goes back farther.

Spurs have the MLE and a poor free agent pool.

Their drafts since Parker don't give a great amount of confidence that the 08 picks will make a difference, whether they be foreign or domestic picks.

Maybe it's too bleak, but it's not a situation I see as merely re-loading. It's not "plug-n-play" like it has been, just sticking in established vets to fill roles.

I think their ability to be top tier depends on young players developing and growing, and that is an uncertainty compared to simply re-loading. The development and growth is no guarantee, there's no givens, as opposed to knowing generally what a Rasho would give, what an Horry would give, what a Barry would give, what a Finley would give, what a Vaughn would give, what a Udoka would give, what an Elson would give, Thomas, Nazr, etc . . . There's no certainty as to what Mahinmi or a 1st round 08 pick or Sanikidze would give. It's a crapshoot. And if those things don't work out . . . then that's the breaking point.

[temujin]

Firstable, make NO mistake.

DON'T trade Splitter's rights.

[rascal]

Firstable, make NO mistake.

DON'T trade Splitter's rights.
Why not?
If they can pakage it with a player for a starter quality player or an upgrade it would not be bad.

[temujin]

Why not?
If they can pakage it with a player for a starter quality player or an upgrade it would not be bad.

Because he is 23 and they will need exactly this type of player, at his peak, as Duncan ages. This guy could have a Nowitski-type of impact, if he continues to improve.

[rascal]

Because he is 23 and they will need exactly this type of player, at his peak, as Duncan ages. This guy could have a Nowitski-type of impact, if he continues to improve.

Quit just looking at what you give up in a trade. You are not considering what you will get. It depends on what they can get back. If they can get a solid starter who can help them now then it would not be a bad deal.

Splitter may not turn out to be all that good anyways.

[timvp]

Splitter has no trade value. Pick 45 has double the value of Splitter right now.

[rascal]

I agree he has little trade value and probably would not get anything back of value now but if he could then I don't see why not trade his draft rights.

[hsxvvd]

Never trade Splitter's right. Keep them forever and never let him play in the NBA, Vspan, Splitter and the other pussies can stay in Europe with the NCAA hacks like Trajan Langdon!

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs need to knock the draft out of the fucking park, because the FA pool is pretty crappy and they have no draft pick next year.

Be open to drafting a big.

But really, this was probably a two year rebuilding job even with Splitter, with an outside shot of all the young players (Mahinmi+Splitter+rookie) being excellent. Now it looks like you can mothball contention for a while barring a miracle. It will take at least two years rebuilding and we traded away yet another opportunity for a young player getting Kurt Thomas.

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs have exhausted all plausible options. Now they have to cross their fingers and hope for miracles.

We're probably looking at a slip back to 48-34 and a first-round exit next year. This isn't a contending team anymore.

[tav1]

Agree, Spurs shouldn't try to sign Diop. He isn't that good an will eat a part of the MLE. Spend the MLE and the 26th pick on perimeter players. Spurs should also go after combo forwards like Ryan Gomes.

I'm not a huge fan of Thomas but he has the huge edge that you can re-sign him without using the MLE because Spurs have his Bird rights.

A Duncan/Oberto/Thomas/Bonner/Mahinmi rotation wouldn't be that bad baring Pop decides to give consistent playing time to Bonner and Mahinmi.

The weakness in these plans is that we assume Spurs will be able to re-sign Thomas but Thomas will be an unrestricted free agent and can decide to go elsewhere. I haven't heard something from him saying that he wants to come back in San Antonio next year. If Thomas decides to sign with teams like Dallas or Boston, Spurs are in a deeper hole.

If they have a good offseason, the Spurs can still beat any team in the league, aside from the Lakers.

The Lakers will be better next season, and that's the one puzzle management needs to figure out.

So we need a young, scoring 3, a dependable 2, a back up point and a frontline answer to Bynum-Gasol-Odom. Is that so difficult?

I jest. Yes, it's hard. But it can be done.

Pop and Buford need to be ballsy, think outside the box and get this done. The Spurs always only play for championships. That's the m.o. It won't change just because Splitter layed an egg.

And being ballsy probably means a willingness to take a few risks. So be it. Lay it on the line.

What I don't want to see is conservation: no Horry, no Finley, trade Bonner. We know those pieces do not represent advance.

[tav1]

The Spurs have exhausted all plausible options. Now they have to cross their fingers and hope for miracles.

We're probably looking at a slip back to 48-34 and a first-round exit next year. This isn't a contending team anymore.

Stop. This is a team that just made to the Western conference finals with its second best player playing on 1 leg. They're not going to fall off the planet.

The problem isn't a giant regression, it's that a couple other teams have improved. This is solvable and salvagable. No need to panic.

[tav1]

Splitter has no trade value. Pick 45 has double the value of Splitter right now.

I've denied this the best I can, but it is slowly sinking in. Splitter is worthless.

Thanks for banging that drum. It took several beats before I caught the rhythm.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Diop not good enough

He blocks shots and rebounds.

You aren't going to find a 20/10/5 big man with the MLE or the 27th pick in the draft.

[tav1]

He blocks shots and rebounds.

You aren't going to find a 20/10/5 big man with the MLE or the 27th pick in the draft.

Diop is not worth the cash. The Spurs are not in a position to give MLE money to a guy who can't contribute on offense and isn't a scoring wing.

The Spurs defense is about scheme and efficient rotation, not individual stats. Re-sign Kurt Thomas, get him comfortable, and play Ian. That's enough.

Offense is the order of the day

[Extra Stout]

Stop. This is a team that just made to the Western conference finals with its second best player playing on 1 leg. They're not going to fall off the planet.

The problem isn't a giant regression, it's that a couple other teams have improved. This is solvable and salvagable. No need to panic.
1983 called. It wants its rationalization back.

[Mr. Body]

Pop and Buford need to be ballsy, think outside the box and get this done. The Spurs always only play for championships. That's the m.o. It won't change just because Splitter layed an egg.

And being ballsy probably means a willingness to take a few risks. So be it. Lay it on the line.

'Thinking outside the box' - specifically in scare quotes - has been one of the problems so far. Buford and Pop thought they had it all figured out, the magic formula, that in-road to easy recruits. It's fully bombed. Now, if you're talking about them thinking outside their own box, then that's another thing. What they need to do is actually go more conventional.

[tav1]

'Thinking outside the box' - specifically in scare quotes - has been one of the problems so far. Buford and Pop thought they had it all figured out, the magic formula, that in-road to easy recruits. It's fully bombed. Now, if you're talking about them thinking outside their own box, then that's another thing. What they need to do is actually go more conventional.


This Splitter thing is bad luck, not an indictment on the system. The Spurs have won championships, in part because they didn't have worthless rookies eating up cap and roster space. Draft and stash has other benefits than simply player development. It's a model that worked for a decade. Things change, though.

But yes, I'm thinking they need to think outside their box. In this case, I think that means looking to draft a domestic player or two, among other things.

[tav1]

1983 called. It wants its rationalization back.

May 2008 called. wtf are you talking about?

[Russ]

The Spurs need a big who can play in their defensive scheme and run the floor.

It's time to put Mahinmi in the rotation and see what they have -- this is his fourth year with the team and he should be able to contribute some by now.

Elson might be worth another look in the pinch as well.

Regarding Mahinmi, if he doesn't turn out to be at least as good as Turiaff the last five years of Spurs drafting will have to be judged a complete bust. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

Splitter just gave Mahinmi a golden opportunity. What would be nice is Mahinmi becoming a member of the rotation next season off the bench, then starting the following season, and then RC lets calls from BFE Spain from a certain 7 footer go straight to mail.

:smokin

[Extra Stout]

May 2008 called. wtf are you talking about?
Compare the 1982-83 Spurs to the 1983-84 Spurs before you try making some spurious point about WCF berths guaranteeing future success.

[temujin]

The Spurs have exhausted all plausible options. Now they have to cross their fingers and hope for miracles.

We're probably looking at a slip back to 48-34 and a first-round exit next year. This isn't a contending team anymore.

56-26 and second round exit.
Still pretty good.

[temujin]

Diop is not worth the cash. The Spurs are not in a position to give MLE money to a guy who can't contribute on offense and isn't a scoring wing.

The Spurs defense is about scheme and efficient rotation, not individual stats. Re-sign Kurt Thomas, get him comfortable, and play Ian. That's enough.

Offense is the order of the day

I agree.

[Marcus Bryant]

Anyone have a link to a good Chicken Little .gif?

[SenorSpur]

Funny what desperation does. (oh and a decent year in the D-League)

Eh it's a blow but I don't think it changes much. If Splitter comes, the Spurs were either going to not re-sign Thomas or re-sign Thomas and trade Bonner. Now the Spurs will just re-sign Thomas. Maybe add Horry (or random young big like O'Bryant or Benson) for insurance.

Are you kidding me? Add Horry for what? To have him come into the season out of shape, and not be able to play in B2B games, and then watch him get totally outquicked and outhustled in the playoffs? No thanks. When Robert Horry loses his confidence to the point that he's passing up shots and making mental mistakes, it's time for HIM to go. The Spurs cannot continue this process of wasting roster spots on guys who are past their prime- regardless of how SMART they are.


I don't think the Spurs can or should go shopping for a Splitter replacement. He would have been damn nice but now the Spurs basically just have to use the Oberto and Thomas stopgap and pray Mahinmi is ahead of schedule and Bonner can earn Pop's trust.

Disagree. The Fakers and the Blazers will have two of the tallest frontlines in the Western Conference next year. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tim needs another true low-post defender, shotblocker, and scorer at his side. He cannot continue to be worn ragged trying to anchor both the defense and low post offense for this team. To that end, I'd rather have Desgana Diop on this roster. Sure his offensive games needs work, but he a superb defender and shotblocker, which would allow the Spurs to better contend these longer, taller frontlines and thereby take some pressure off Duncan.


There is a chance the Spurs could be better off if Mahinmi comes in and can start playing better than expected. If Splitter were coming, Mahinmi wouldn't have gotten minutes this year and maybe would have been traded.

Before and after Splitter, I think Spurs need to focus their resources on the swingman positions. That said, I'm now prepared for RC to throw the whole MLE at Diop to make up for the Splitter fiasco and then just compound the problems :rolleyes

Agree that the swingman position should be the top priority. As for Diop, I don't think he deserves or will require the entire MLE because he hasn't done much in the league. Perhaps he can be had for half that or the money currently being paid to Bonner. On second thought, he is an unrestricted FA. Perhaps some time will dole out crazy $$$ for him and hence he wouldn't even be an option for the Spurs. That being the case, then the O'Bryant suggestion isn't a bad one. Ian's presence would allow time to develop him. He would be a good second option.

[MoSpur]

The Spurs may try to package their picks and someone like Bonner to move up in the draft. Diop is a good option. Kelena is also worth a look at. The dude can play some ball. Its not over.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs may try to package their picks and someone like Bonner to move up in the draft. Diop is a good option. Kelena is also worth a look at. The dude can play some ball. Its not over.

Dude, Bonner is shit compared to his salary and will get you moving backwards in the draft.

[Russ]

Before and after Splitter, I think Spurs need to focus their resources on the swingman positions.

Agreed. They shouldn't let the Splitter thing ruin their plans on two fronts. It shouldn't be that hard to find a serviceable defensive big who can run the floor -- they dug up Elson a couple years ago for next to nothing and he wasn't so bad.

It's more important that they don't go for multiyear deals that look bad before the ink dries like Butler and Bonner.

[MoSpur]

Bonner is a solid player that for some reason found himself in Pop's doghouse. Who knows why? I think he'd be a good player on someone else's roster. His contract is not that bad.

[Russ]

Bonner is a solid player that for some reason found himself in Pop's doghouse.

Bonner can't be on the floor against any Western Conference team in the playoffs (other than Phoenix, maybe). That's the bottom line.

[Extra Stout]

Bonner can't be on the floor against any Western Conference team in the playoffs (other than Phoenix, maybe). That's the bottom line.
Phoenix isn't all that likely to make the playoffs anymore. If they do, it will be as a 7th or 8th seed.

[m33p0]

nba is going big again.

[AA2120]

Candace Parker.

I think it's safe to say that she's got more balls than Splitter.

am i the only one or is candace parker pretty hot..

[Russ]

am i the only one or is candace parker pretty hot..

No. Don Imus also thought so.

[kobyz]

Candace Parker not but maybe her brother anthony, think about it, he fit well in the spurs system, he shot well the 3 ball and he has good D

[hsxvvd]

am i the only one or is candace parker pretty hot..

Isn't she dating Sheldan Williams of Sacramento?

[silk]

Is ronny turiaf a realistic option there ?

[Bruno]

Is ronny turiaf a realistic option there ?

No, he isn't.

[A.H 21-50]

IMO the best option is to spend the MLE for a good wing player who could be a starter for us
draft the better guy availabe wing or inside and then adjust wiyh a low cost fa and diop could be interesting at that point

We can also spend the MLE on a big man but not diop who's a little bit soft imo if we have a wing player with the draft wich can contribute immediatly

[Marcus Bryant]

JR Smith, obviously.

[Mr. Body]

JR Smith, obviously.

Yikes.

[A.H 21-50]

JR Smith, obviously.

it appears also that if artest opts out is going to look at an MLE deal
good option too as jr smith but i prefer ron ron

[Bruno]

FA bigmen are real crap this year.

I will rank them for you :
Antawn Jamison
Josh Smith (R)
Andris Biedrins (R)
Emeka Okafor (R)
Nenad Krstic (R)
Paul Millsap (R)
Kurt Thomas
Carl Landry (R)
Craig Smith (R)
DeSagana Diop
Kwame Brown
Francisco Elson
...

Remove unrealistic names and you end up with
Kurt Thomas
Craig Smith (R)
DeSagana Diop
Kwame Brown
Francisco Elson
...

[Indazone]

FA bigmen are real crap this year.

I will rank them for you :
Antawn Jamison
Josh Smith (R)
Andris Biedrins (R)
Emeka Okafor (R)
Nenad Krstic (R)
Paul Millsap (R)
Kurt Thomas
Carl Landry (R)
Craig Smith (R)
DeSagana Diop
Kwame Brown
Francisco Elson
...

Remove unrealistic names and you end up with
Kurt Thomas
Craig Smith (R)
DeSagana Diop
Kwame Brown
Francisco Elson
...

Elson comes back to the Spurs. Now that would be ironic.

[Harry Callahan]

FA bigmen are real crap this year.

I will rank them for you :
Antawn Jamison
Josh Smith (R)
Andris Biedrins (R)
Emeka Okafor (R)
Nenad Krstic (R)
Paul Millsap (R)
Kurt Thomas
Carl Landry (R)
Craig Smith (R)
DeSagana Diop
Kwame Brown
Francisco Elson
...

Remove unrealistic names and you end up with
Kurt Thomas
Craig Smith (R)
DeSagana Diop
Kwame Brown
Francisco Elson
...

Slim Pickins. Wow! Memphis paid Brown for just half a year and the salary comes off the books. The NBA should consider contraction with teams like Memphis. Or move a couple of teams overseas to willing cities.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs need someone who can put points on the board. Spending the MLE on an athletic 22 year old swingman with more than MLE talent isn't a bad bet.

[Kibic]

Rasho?

[AA2120]

Isn't she dating Sheldan Williams of Sacramento?

that alien lookin mutha phuka??:lol

[loveforthegame]

Diop has mentioned that he'd like to go back to Dallas so you can probably cross him off your wish list.

[Bruno]

Rasho?

He isn't a FA. :)

[PDXSpursFan]

The only sensible solution is Diop.
+1

[BacktoBasics]

I'm a fan of Craig Smith. Would be on the cheap too.

[tmtcsc]

The amount of negativism, despair and panic in this thread is unreal. We went from being 3 victories away from the Finals to being hard pressed to compete with the West's elite next year.

Are you kidding me ? Before the 'denial' remarks begin, here me out. We have a solid base of players that includes a Hall of Fame PF and 2-guard and an excellent point guard. We also have an excellent SF who is named to the ALL NBA defense team annually. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Had Manu been 100 % healthy, we would have won the Championship again. Manu's (Our leading scorer and most consistent performer all season) injuries played a bigger part of us not winning a Championship than our old age.

In this offseason, Pop and RC will try and fill the holes. That means finding people who can gives us quality minutes off the bench and maintain our leads or at least give our starters time to rest. Our most glaring needs are: Back-up PG, Back-up SF and Backup C/PF.

We don't need All Star caliber players. We need solid vets with enthusiasm and smarts. We know what we need to do to beat the other teams in our Division. I'm confident we'll find the right mix of players to do just that.

[GrandeDavid]

tmtcsc, as long as I have the privilege of seeing that fine backside you've thumbed, I'm down with all of your posts. In fact, you rule. :king

[Mr. Body]

The amount of negativism, despair and panic in this thread is unreal. We went from being 3 victories away from the Finals to being hard pressed to compete with the West's elite next year.

Are you kidding me ? Before the 'denial' remarks begin, here me out. We have a solid base of players that includes a Hall of Fame PF and 2-guard and an excellent point guard. We also have an excellent SF who is named to the ALL NBA defense team annually. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Had Manu been 100 % healthy, we would have won the Championship again. Manu's (Our leading scorer and most consistent performer all season) injuries played a bigger part of us not winning a Championship than our old age.

In this offseason, Pop and RC will try and fill the holes. That means finding people who can gives us quality minutes off the bench and maintain our leads or at least give our starters time to rest. Our most glaring needs are: Back-up PG, Back-up SF and Backup C/PF.

We don't need All Star caliber players. We need solid vets with enthusiasm and smarts. We know what we need to do to beat the other teams in our Division. I'm confident we'll find the right mix of players to do just that.

Denial.

J/k sorta.

What you're finding is people who have looked at the FA, trade, and draft options have seen and realized the second half of your post is seven kinds of nearly impossible.

'all we need' are backup PG, backup SF, and backup C/PF? Where are you getting this people? What brilliant ideas do you have that are escaping everybody else?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Diop is not worth the cash. The Spurs are not in a position to give MLE money to a guy who can't contribute on offense and isn't a scoring wing.

The Spurs defense is about scheme and efficient rotation, not individual stats. Re-sign Kurt Thomas, get him comfortable, and play Ian. That's enough.

Offense is the order of the day

You don't think Diop would actually be a great defensive player in a system like SA instead of the free for all that was the Dallas D? Come on...

I agree offense is the order of the day. By the time the draft gets here, the Spurs should have a good idea about what perimeter players they can get in FA.

If that's not looking too hot, use the draft pick to get a perimeter scorer and spend the money on Diop.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Diop has mentioned that he'd like to go back to Dallas so you can probably cross him off your wish list.

Tiago mentioned for the last year he'd like to come to the NBA.

Big deal.

[Mr. Body]

If that's not looking too hot, use the draft pick to get a perimeter scorer and spend the money on Diop.

That's probably the best you can do. See if you can get Matt Barnes or somebody with the LLE after that.

[Extra Stout]

The amount of negativism, despair and panic in this thread is unreal. We went from being 3 victories away from the Finals to being hard pressed to compete with the West's elite next year.

Are you kidding me ? Before the 'denial' remarks begin, here me out. We have a solid base of players that includes a Hall of Fame PF and 2-guard and an excellent point guard. We also have an excellent SF who is named to the ALL NBA defense team annually. These guys aren't going anywhere.
The Spurs are already making the assumption that their marvelous 2-guard will have a down year next season due to fatigue being compounded by playing in the Olympics. The All-Defense SF is 37 years old and already demonstrated that he can't guard elite players as well as he used to.


Had Manu been 100 % healthy, we would have won the Championship again. Manu's (Our leading scorer and most consistent performer all season) injuries played a bigger part of us not winning a Championship than our old age.Yes, and if Robert Horry was 25 years old, had superhuman strength, and the shooting touch of Kobe Bryant, the Spurs would have won the championship too. So?

Ginobili's injuries were not a surprise, There's a reason Pop has watched his minutes his entire career. During the season, there was a period where Manu had to log heavy minutes because the Spurs had no choice. Tony Parker was banged up, and the bench players were having their bedsores tended while playing bingo and watching "Murder, She Wrote" in the rec room. It was either burn down Manu's candle, or slip down to the 6th, 7th, or 8th seed. I wondered then if it would catch up to him. It did. 26-year-old Tony Parker was worn down too, though not so severely. Having elderly role players with nothing left in the tank has consequences. The Big 3 carried the team to 56 wins, but their lack of help had consequences. Don't delude yourself into thinking Manu's condition was a fluke.


In this offseason, Pop and RC will try and fill the holes. That means finding people who can gives us quality minutes off the bench and maintain our leads or at least give our starters time to rest. Our most glaring needs are: Back-up PG, Back-up SF and Backup C/PF.
Wow, that's so impressive that they're going to "try." Really? The general manager is going to attempt to acquire basketball players for the basketball team? Amazing! How unlike other general managers! The Spurs have a real advantage here.


We don't need All Star caliber players. We need solid vets with enthusiasm and smarts. We know what we need to do to beat the other teams in our Division. I'm confident we'll find the right mix of players to do just that.The Spurs have several solid vets with enthusiasm and smarts. The problem is that most of them are over the age of 35 and their bodies don't respond as well to their enthusiastic smart brains anymore. They indeed have terrific knowledge about how to beat other teams; however, they physically are unable to do anything with that knowledge

In order to keep up in the West, the Spurs really need five new younger players, including two starters. Bruce Bowen at this point should be transitioning to the bench as a spot lockdown defender. Neither Oberto nor Thomas should be starting at center. Most likely, they only will get three new players: Mahinmi, a swingman like Mo Evans, and a scrub point guard. They will still have four guys over the age of 35 in their rotation. You probably will cheer the marginal moves they make as just what they needed and express confidence that the old guys somehow will stay healthy and contribute, and that Manu will magically shake off the Olympic fatigue.

I don't buy it. I'm grateful for the 2007 title that we got on the strength of the veterans, but I'm not pretending that they have the mileage left to support the Big 3 anymore. It's been plainly obvious that this reckoning day would come for several years now, and we all just expressed faith that sage R.C. would figure it out somehow. Well, he's struck out on most of his recent moves, and now he pretty much has to run the table: Ian Mahinmi has to be a stud, the two draft picks have to yield steals who are ready to contribute immediately, and the free agent acquisition has to suddenly blossom into a much better player than he has been for the price.

Alternately, the Spurs need those aliens from the movie 'Cocoon' to plant their pods in the swimming pool at the practice center.

[tmtcsc]

tmtcsc, as long as I have the privilege of seeing that fine backside you've thumbed, I'm down with all of your posts. In fact, you rule. :king

:toast A fine ass indeed. And a lucky find on the net. Thank you.

[temujin]

:toast A fine ass indeed. And a lucky find on the net. Thank you.

On the net?
I thought it was a live picture of yours.

[picnroll]

The biggest dream being posted is that some 25th pick is going to be much help in solving next years swing man need.

If Mahinmi doesn't surprise and step up a lot and Spurs don't land a good scoring swing man with the MLE they aren't real contenders.

[Bartleby]

Alternately, the Spurs need those aliens from the movie 'Cocoon' to plant their pods in the swimming pool at the practice center.

:lol

Robert Horry as Wilfred Brimley:

"We won't get old and we won't ever die"

[Mr. Body]

:lol

Robert Horry as Wilfred Brimley:

"We won't get old and we won't ever die"

Robert Horry as Wilfred Brimley:

"Diabeetus."

[Kibic]

He isn't a FA. :)
We could still buy him?

[Bruno]

We could still buy him?

We can trade Duncan for him.
We can also trade Manu and Parker for Smodis, some caviar and some gallons of oil. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

The amount of negativism, despair and panic in this thread is unreal. We went from being 3 victories away from the Finals to being hard pressed to compete with the West's elite next year.

Are you kidding me ? Before the 'denial' remarks begin, here me out. We have a solid base of players that includes a Hall of Fame PF and 2-guard and an excellent point guard. We also have an excellent SF who is named to the ALL NBA defense team annually. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Had Manu been 100 % healthy, we would have won the Championship again. Manu's (Our leading scorer and most consistent performer all season) injuries played a bigger part of us not winning a Championship than our old age.

In this offseason, Pop and RC will try and fill the holes. That means finding people who can gives us quality minutes off the bench and maintain our leads or at least give our starters time to rest. Our most glaring needs are: Back-up PG, Back-up SF and Backup C/PF.

We don't need All Star caliber players. We need solid vets with enthusiasm and smarts. We know what we need to do to beat the other teams in our Division. I'm confident we'll find the right mix of players to do just that.

Agreed. Between Mahinmi and an athletic swingman pickup in the draft (there should be a few available at #26) the Spurs will take a pretty good step to rejuventating their supporting cast. The Spurs aren't that far off the top. Acting like they're going off the cliff is a bit much. But it's not surprising considering that it's the usual board suspects who are crying wolf.

[yavozerb]

TP-Barry-Bowen-TD-Thomas
FA/rookie-Manu-Udoka-Mahinmi-Oberto
JV-FA/rookie-FA/rookie-Bonner-FA/rookie

IS this about what you guys think or what?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

^yup.

[Bruno]

TP-Barry-Bowen-TD-Thomas
FA/rookie-Manu-Udoka-Mahinmi-Oberto
JV-FA/rookie-FA/rookie-Bonner-FA/rookie

IS this about what you guys think or what?


The starting lineup with 3 "over 36" players is amazing. ;)

[yavozerb]

The starting lineup with 3 "over 36" players is amazing. ;)

Ya but you counter with manu and mahinmi off the bench and it isn't that bad...Also, who knows maybe even a younger PG will be running this second group as well. Let all the old guys get the glory already.

[tmtcsc]

The Spurs are already making the assumption that their marvelous 2-guard will have a down year next season due to fatigue being compounded by playing in the Olympics. The All-Defense SF is 37 years old and already demonstrated that he can't guard elite players as well as he used to.


Really ? They've all but assumed that one of their best players won't be able to bring it every night because he is competing in the Olympics ? I thought it was pretty well understood that players play in summer leagues and informal scrimmages through out the summer to stay in shape. In fact, I clearly remember Pop saying that it was probably better that Manu play in a controlled environment to help with staying conditioned and healthy. He's going to be resting for the next 5 weeks before he starts preparing for the Olympics. Your assumption is pretty much bullshit.

Bruce Bowen at 37 is in better shape and condition than most of the players 10 years younger than him. He has been one of our most consistent players since he got to this team. He's improved almost every year. Name me someone besides Kobe that Bruce has failed to lock down ? Your list shouldn't go any further than maybe 2 or 3 names at best. I can live with that.


Yes, and if Robert Horry was 25 years old, had superhuman strength, and the shooting touch of Kobe Bryant, the Spurs would have won the championship too. So?

That's just stupid. Robert Horry had nothing to do with us not winning it this year. He had a terrible year from the start. What did he do for us last year when we won ? He played a big part in us beating New Orleans in Game 7 and Game 6. No one expects him to score 10 pts a game anymore.


Ginobili's injuries were not a surprise, There's a reason Pop has watched his minutes his entire career. During the season, there was a period where Manu had to log heavy minutes because the Spurs had no choice. I wondered then if it would catch up to him. It did. 26-year-old Tony Parker was worn down too, though not so severely. Having elderly role players with nothing left in the tank has consequences. The Big 3 carried the team to 56 wins, but their lack of help had consequences. Don't delude yourself into thinking Manu's condition was a fluke.

So you expected Manu to injure his ankle and strain his hip flexor ? Nice try, but I call bullshit again Nostradamus. He logged heavy minutes for about 5 games but he also sat out of about 5 games. The 5 games he logged heavy minutes was considered one of the greatest scoring stretches by a Spur in their history. If I recall correctly, he came out of it a little tired but uninjured. Don't delude yourself into thinking that Manu didn't take the ball to the basket in the playoffs because he was a little winded. He was playing with injuries.
A fluke ? No, shit happens.


Wow, that's so impressive that they're going to "try." Really? The general manager is going to attempt to acquire basketball players for the basketball team? Amazing! How unlike other general managers! The Spurs have a real advantage here.

Smartass, your just being a prick here. RC will either take the best player available in the draft or pursue a free agent to accomplish their goals.


The Spurs have several solid vets with enthusiasm and smarts. The problem is that most of them are over the age of 35 and their bodies don't respond as well to their enthusiastic smart brains anymore. They indeed have terrific knowledge about how to beat other teams; however, they physically are unable to do anything with that knowledge

Heard the same thing after we got beat by Dallas 2 years ago.


Most likely, they only will get three new players: Mahinmi, a swingman like Mo Evans, and a scrub point guard. They will still have four guys over the age of 35 in their rotation.You probably will cheer the marginal moves they make as just what they needed and express confidence that the old guys somehow will stay healthy and contribute, and that Manu will magically shake off the Olympic fatigue.

Mo Evans ? :lol You're a genius. Maybe the Spurs ought to hire you in the front office.
How the fuck do you know what I'll cheer or not ? What I know is that they have more expertise and knowledge than I do when it comes to their profession. Go ask Golden State what all their youth and athleticism got them. They went from knocking out Dallas to not making the playoffs. Why is that ? Go ask Denver what happened to their promising season. We have problems that are fixable. It doesn't require a complete over-haul. An unproven rookie from Euro land wasn't going to be the "just what we needed" answer either. Neither is Ian Mahinmi.

Losing Scola for nothing sucked but even he wasn't good enough to get Houston out of the first round. Losing out on Splitter sucked too but I'm not about to say it was the last straw for RC and he should be whacked. Gawd damn, give the team a chance to fix what's broken. They've answered the call every time they have failed to reach the finals since '03.



It's been plainly obvious that this reckoning day would come for several years now, and we all just expressed faith that sage R.C. would figure it out somehow.

Plainly obvious for several years that what ? In the last several years (5) We won 3 Championships and just lost in the West Finals. I guess we need to do a better job in drafting just like the Celtics right ? I mean, they drafted Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett and they're in the finals. Or maybe if we drafted as well as the Lakers. Look at them, they drafted Odom and Gasol..ooops. All 3 of our BIG 3 were drafted by us. How many teams can say that ? Draft picks can be crap shoots.

[Indazone]

You can always get Jermaine O'Neal. I don't think he's too happy staying in Indiana. If he gets bought out...

[tmtcsc]

You can always get Jermaine O'Neal. I don't think he's too happy staying in Indiana. If he gets bought out...

I'm sure Indiana would love to get rid of him, his injuries and his bloated contract but he's too smart to move into FA as damaged goods.

I don't think the Spurs would be interested.

[angelbelow]

fuck it, ians ready, 40 points 25 rebounds 8 blocks will be his averages next year.

[tmtcsc]

Anyone have a link to a good Chicken Little .gif?

Here you go Marcus:

http://www.gifmania.sg/Disney/chicken-little/logo.giforhttp://www.nutrocker.co.uk/images/avatars/chicken-little2.gif

[Extra Stout]

Really ? They've all but assumed that one of their best players won't be able to bring it every night because he is competing in the Olympics ? I thought it was pretty well understood that players play in summer leagues and informal scrimmages through out the summer to stay in shape. In fact, I clearly remember Pop saying that it was probably better that Manu play in a controlled environment to help with staying conditioned and healthy. He's going to be resting for the next 5 weeks before he starts preparing for the Olympics. Your assumption is pretty much bullshit.
See Mike Monroe E-N article, 5/31/08, in which Mike shares with us that Pop will have to limit Manu's minutes next season due to his playing in the Olympics and having only 5 weeks' rest until training camp, and that the Spurs can't afford to let Michael Finley go because of Manu's situation.


Bruce Bowen at 37 is in better shape and condition than most of the players 10 years younger than him.
That's nice. He's not in as good a condition as Bruce Bowen from a few years ago.


He has been one of our most consistent players since he got to this team. He's improved almost every year.
Unfortunately, the NBA is not going to start handicapping games based upon lifetime achievement. He's stopped improving and begun a slow decline. If there were a whole bunch of other Spurs who were improving by leaps and bounds, that would be acceptable, but when most of the team is in decline, the net result is that the team gets worse.


Name me someone besides Kobe that Bruce has failed to lock down ? Your list shouldn't go any further than maybe 2 or 3 names at best. I can live with that.
Chris Paul.

Seriously, you're OK with the fact that Bruce Bowen isn't even making Kobe Bryant work that hard for his shots anymore? What's your plan for getting past the Lakers in the future? Pray for an asteroid to hit the Staples Center?

Are you expecting the Hornets to continue to choke away playoff series due to inexperience? Did you know that as young teams gain experience, they actually stop being "inexperienced?"

So, hmm, if the Spurs can't get by the Lakers, and if the Hornets pass them up, that makes them at best second-round playoff fodder.


That's just stupid. Robert Horry had nothing to do with us not winning it this year. He had a terrible year from the start. What did he do for us last year when we won ? He played a big part in us beating New Orleans in Game 7 and Game 6. No one expects him to score 10 pts a game anymore.
In other words, woulda, shoulda, coulda.


So you expected Manu to injure his ankle and strain his hip flexor ? Nice try, but I call bullshit again Nostradamus. He logged heavy minutes for about 5 games but he also sat out of about 5 games. The 5 games he logged heavy minutes was considered one of the greatest scoring stretches by a Spur in their history. If I recall correctly, he came out of it a little tired but uninjured. Don't delude yourself into thinking that Manu didn't take the ball to the basket in the playoffs because he was a little winded. He was playing with injuries.
Manu's developing multiple injuries by the playoffs has something to do with his logging a career high in minutes.


Smartass, your just being a prick here. RC will either take the best player available in the draft or pursue a free agent to accomplish their goals.
What in R.C.'s recent record indicates he'll get the right players, especially since his resources to do so are so limited?


Heard the same thing after we got beat by Dallas 2 years ago.The same players are now two years older, and a few of them are obviously done as NBA players.



Mo Evans ? :lol You're a genius. Maybe the Spurs ought to hire you in the front office.Is there some list of secret super-awesome free agents that only R.C. Buford has? It's easy to have boundless optimism about some idealized MLE player the team can sign that just happens to hit the spot. That optimism fades when one looks at who is actually available.


How the fuck do you know what I'll cheer or not ? What I know is that they have more expertise and knowledge than I do when it comes to their profession. Go ask Golden State what all their youth and athleticism got them. They went from knocking out Dallas to not making the playoffs. Why is that ? Go ask Denver what happened to their promising season.
Did you know that even Isiah Thomas and Chris Wallace have more expertise and knowledge than you do when it comes to running a basketball team? Does that mean they are trustworthy in their field?

And who cares about what Golden State and Denver did? Did they knock the Spurs out of the playoffs?


We have problems that are fixable. It doesn't require a complete over-haul. An unproven rookie from Euro land wasn't going to be the "just what we needed" answer either. Neither is Ian Mahinmi.
Well, then, I guess the Spurs were screwed going into this offseason no matter what happened, because no, the problems aren't fixable in the short term, and further problems are going to sprout more quickly than the Spurs fix the ones that already exist.

It's going to take about three years to retool.


Losing Scola for nothing sucked but even he wasn't good enough to get Houston out of the first round. Losing out on Splitter sucked too but I'm not about to say it was the last straw for RC and he should be whacked.
Did anybody ever claim that Luis Scola was supposed to be a superstar who singlehandedly carried his team to playoff victory? I guess by your logic the Spurs would have to turn down the chance to acquire any player who isn't on the Lakers or Celtics, since clearly they aren't good enough to get their teams to the Finals. Giving up draft picks and young players in order to "win now" is great when the team does "win now," and the Spurs did, and it was great. But now it has caught up to them, and it's made worse by the fact that most of the handful of young players they did have in the stockpile came to naught. Farting away two good players on a twelve-man roster is pretty significant.


Gawd damn, give the team a chance to fix what's broken. They've answered the call every time they have failed to reach the finals since '03.
This team has a lot more broken than those teams did and it will take more than one offseason to fix it. That, and recent performance by the GM inspires no confidence than he will meet, much less exceed that expectation.


Plainly obvious for several years that what ?That around 2008, most of the key players around the Big 3 would be of advanced age, and that replacements needed to be ready.


In the last several years (5) We won 3 Championships and just lost in the West Finals.
I love the past success. However, in 2008-09 the NBA will award the Spurs zero wins in the standings because of that past performance.


I guess we need to do a better job in drafting just like the Celtics right ? I mean, they drafted Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett and they're in the finals.
In a couple of years, they will go into decline, just like the Spurs now.


Or maybe if we drafted as well as the Lakers. Look at them, they drafted Odom and Gasol..ooops.
You're right, it would be terrible if the Spurs had Andrew Bynum at center, or Sasha Vujacic, Jordan Farmar, and Ronny Turiaf coming off the bench. Thank God the Spurs didn't draft like the Lakers.

[objective]

The Lakers have drafted awesome in the late first round and in the second.

Ronny Turiaf, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Jordan Farmar, Trevor Ariza (they traded Cook for him along with an LLE player).

That's pretty damn good and got them into the Finals.

[Harry Callahan]

The Lakers have drafted awesome in the late first round and in the second.

Ronny Turiaf, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Jordan Farmar, Trevor Ariza (they traded Cook for him along with an LLE player).

That's pretty damn good and got them into the Finals.

LA did a good job but those guys were also on that roster (while SA was winning a couple of championships) and Kobe was wanting to get away from them. No playoffs and two first round exits for LAL.

Young players require patience to mature. Did the Spurs over the last five years have time to develop young players while they play through mistakes? I don't think so. Good for the Lakers they developed their bench, but it almost cost them Kobe (remember the trade request). It still took a sweetheart deal to get them over the top.

[SPURSGOAT]

You can always get Jermaine O'Neal. I don't think he's too happy staying in Indiana. If he gets bought out...

He would be way too expensive...and he is old and broken down..

[Ocotillo]

The Lakers have drafted awesome in the late first round and in the second.

Ronny Turiaf, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Jordan Farmar, Trevor Ariza (they traded Cook for him along with an LLE player).

That's pretty damn good and got them into the Finals.

Yeah props to them but I think getting Gasol had a bit to do with it as well. I can bust R.C.'s chops for whiffing lately in the draft but I can't fault him for not getting some Rainman GM giving him an all star on a silver platter.

[The Truth #6]

Our problem has been more in developing players than getting them on the team.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not sure why Ian needs to be able to score because if he's in the game with Duncan he's going to get points without having plays run for him. You tell him to rebound and defend, you send him to the front of the rim when someone gets doubled. Hell, you might be able to bring back the high/low with him and he might be good on pick and rolls to get him some extra shots, but it's not necessary if he's getting second chance points or a lob or two per game. I'm sick about the Splitter situation, but it's not nearly as bleak as many make it sound, at least at that position. The day Bowen loses a step is a much bigger concern to me than who's in the middle, as long as it's not Horry or Finley.

[AFBlue]

I'm not sure why Ian needs to be able to score because if he's in the game with Duncan he's going to get points without having plays run for him. You tell him to rebound and defend, you send him to the front of the rim when someone gets doubled. Hell, you might be able to bring back the high/low with him and he might be good on pick and rolls to get him some extra shots, but it's not necessary if he's getting second chance points or a lob or two per game. I'm sick about the Splitter situation, but it's not nearly as bleak as many make it sound, at least at that position. The day Bowen loses a step is a much bigger concern to me than who's in the middle, as long as it's not Horry or Finley.

Ian needs to be able to stay on the court, which may be a problem for him at this point.

You say he needs to defend, but in reality he needs to defend effectively (i.e. without fouling). Ian is sure to bring more athleticism to the team and will hopefully provide energy if he makes it onto the court....but I'm not sure he's ready for primetime.

Sure, the Splitter situation isn't as dire as some make it sound.....but he combined youth/athleticism with experience against top international competition.

That's not easy to replace, and I don't think you can expect Ian to do so.

[Obstructed_View]

Ian needs to be able to stay on the court, which may be a problem for him at this point.

Yeah, Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire have that problem, too. Frankly, Oberto and Thomas spend a lot of time in foul trouble. There's really only one way to find out if Ian can learn controlled aggression and good decision-making.


You say he needs to defend, but in reality he needs to defend effectively (i.e. without fouling). Ian is sure to bring more athleticism to the team and will hopefully provide energy if he makes it onto the court....but I'm not sure he's ready for primetime.

In actual reality, he only needs to defend more effectively than whoever he's taking minutes from. Considering the amount of times Oberto's put up stinker performances, it's certainly worth a shot. If he can get rebounds and blocks and maybe a point here or there while learning the defense, which takes a while, there's no downside whatsoever. He's not taking a roster spot from anyone. Hell, if he's missing rotations but altering shots in the paint he's about as effective as Elson, even if he somehow forgets how to rebound.


Sure, the Splitter situation isn't as dire as some make it sound.....but he combined youth/athleticism with experience against top international competition.

That's not easy to replace, and I don't think you can expect Ian to do so.
The nice thing is the Spurs don't have to replace something they never had. Expecting him to be a step up from nothing isn't an overwhelming expectation.

[AFBlue]

My takeaway from your last post Obstructed View, is that Mahinmi needs to be more effective than the other two player's he'd take minutes from....Oberto and most likely Thomas.

My problem is that I don't think he can be more effective than either at this point. Yes he'd be more athletic, but Oberto makes the little plays (offensive tipouts, inside passes) and Thomas is simply a better all-around player that just needs a little more time in the system.

All that said, I'm not opposed to him getting an opportunity to prove me wrong...in fact I welcome it. I just remain skeptical that it can happen. Also, I don't buy your argument that he's stepping up from nothing....because he's going to replace someone's minutes from this year, and his production has to be measured against that.

[timvp]

This is difficult to admit but Pop needs to take a page from the Doc Rivers school of coaching. Look what he did this year with the Celtics with regards to young players. He has a lot of old veterans but he stuck with Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo all year and now it's paying off. He did the same with Leon Powe off the bench.

Pop must take the same approach with Mahinmi. I seriously think you start him throughout preseason and all the way to the all-star break. You let him work through his mistakes. And really, starting a player and letting him play the first 8 to 10 minutes of each half isn't too risky. At the All-Star break if Mahinmi has been horrible, then you send him to Austin for the rest of the year and then maybe make a trade to find a replacement big. If Mahinmi has been good, then you keep rolling with it. Going into next season with Oberto or Thomas as a starter would be a big mistake.

[ElNono]

This is difficult to admit but Pop needs to take a page from the Doc Rivers school of coaching. Look what he did this year with the Celtics with regards to young players. He has a lot of old veterans but he stuck with Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo all year and now it's paying off. He did the same with Leon Powe off the bench.

Pop must take the same approach with Mahinmi. I seriously think you start him throughout preseason and all the way to the all-star break. You let him work through his mistakes. And really, starting a player and letting him play the first 8 to 10 minutes of each half isn't too risky. At the All-Star break if Mahinmi has been horrible, then you send him to Austin for the rest of the year and then maybe make a trade to find a replacement big. If Mahinmi has been good, then you keep rolling with it. Going into next season with Oberto or Thomas as a starter would be a big mistake.

With Splitter not coming, and if the West is anything like this past season, Pop will not have the patience. It's going to be like Elson. Play some games here and there, then to the doghouse. When playoffs come around, he'll be the 3rd big on the rotation, will have close to no playing time, and we're going to roll with the same old dudes. Like you said, the only exception being he gets traded for another big vet in January.
Our team has become way too predictable.

[objective]

Pop must take the same approach with Mahinmi. I seriously think you start him throughout preseason and all the way to the all-star break. . . . . . . . Going into next season with Oberto or Thomas as a starter would be a big mistake.

I agree with all of that.

But that is not what I believe will happen, and that's why I'm one of the 'pessimistic' posters on the board (i would argue realistic).

Oberto or Thomas will begin next season as starters. The preseason they'll probably split starts. Mahinmi will only get big burn in the final preseason game where the Spurs sit out anyone important. Then he'll be back in bench territory.

I hope I'm wrong . . . but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

[CaptainLate]

I agree! Diop!

Diop and Magette.

[timvp]

I agree with all of that.

But that is not what I believe will happen, and that's why I'm one of the 'pessimistic' posters on the board (i would argue realistic).

Oberto or Thomas will begin next season as starters. The preseason they'll probably split starts. Mahinmi will only get big burn in the final preseason game where the Spurs sit out anyone important. Then he'll be back in bench territory.

I hope I'm wrong . . . but I'm pretty sure I'm right.Pop figured it out with Stephen Jackson. He could have gone with Smitty or Ferry (or a hobbled Ginobili) but he went with Jackson and that move resulted in championship number two.

And really, Mahinmi has shown more than Jackson ever did. Jackson was a malcontent who was horrible during that preseason. He was so bad I'm surprised he wasn't cut. But Pop stuck with him.

Hopefully that Pop returns next year. I actually think he's good at coaching young players. He got a bad rap the last few years for not coaching young players but he hasn't really had a very good young player for a while. Beno was pretty good but he wasn't competitive enough for Pop. Pop likes players who actually care about winning .... no matter their age.

Mahinmi almost carrying the Toros to the D-League title as one of the youngest players in the league bodes well for his competitiveness and Pop I think will give him a fair shot. I'm more concerned with Mahinmi being ready than Pop being stubborn and riding Oberto and Thomas into the ground.

[Spurs da champs]

If we get Ian to play more next year it would be interesting to see if he could guard Amare.

[objective]

Pop figured it out with Stephen Jackson. He could have gone with Smitty or Ferry (or a hobbled Ginobili) but he went with Jackson and that move resulted in championship number two.

And really, Mahinmi has shown more than Jackson ever did. Jackson was a malcontent who was horrible during that preseason. He was so bad I'm surprised he wasn't cut. But Pop stuck with him.

Hopefully that Pop returns next year. I actually think he's good at coaching young players. He got a bad rap the last few years for not coaching young players but he hasn't really had a very good young player for a while. Beno was pretty good but he wasn't competitive enough for Pop. Pop likes players who actually care about winning .... no matter their age.

Mahinmi almost carrying the Toros to the D-League title as one of the youngest players in the league bodes well for his competitiveness and Pop I think will give him a fair shot. I'm more concerned with Mahinmi being ready than Pop being stubborn and riding Oberto and Thomas into the ground.

From my memory Pop actually tried to go with an old Smith and a hobbled Ginobili, but Smith got hurt early and Ginobili was banged up, forcing Jackson upon Pop. By the time Smith and Ginobili were alright Jackson had played too well for Pop to send him back to the bench.

Now imo injuries to other bigs like Oberto (nothing serious) would be good for the Spurs in the long run, because that would force Pop to play Mahinmi.

Re: Beno, lately I've been questioning how he was handled more than in the past when only questoning why NVE got time against Dallas.

And the reason is Sasha Vujacic. His first two years in the league Vujacic was a horrible, soft, short armed waste of a player that was a source of anger for Laker fans. He was even abused by Kobe, both verbally and even physically pushed around by Kobe on the Lakers bench. I read many times on Laker boards the remorse of taking Vujacic over Beno(!). But with patience and time he became a legit rotation player. It took 4 years, but it happened.

Now of course there's differences, such as Vujacic was 3 years younger than Beno so of course wouldn't be that mature, and was played out of position his first year.

But I wonder if Vujacic would have even gotten those 3 years of struggling development under Pop. I have to say that I doubt it.

So while I hope that the Pop of 03 who said things like "we're a young team making young-type mistakes" and then had the patience to ride out those young mistakes returns . . . I have to remain severely skeptical of that happening.

[objective]

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more re: Jackson

Going back over box scores manages to both confirm and contradict my recollections.

Steve Smith began the year by starting opening night (Stephen Jackson played 5 minutes), but the injury put on him on ice.

The the hobbled Ginobili started a few games, but he was slowed by injury.

So who started after Ginobili was too hung up by injury to be counted on?

Danny Ferry according to the box score.

Then Jackson for a game, then Smith came back and started a string of games, during that time Manu went on IL, and then Jackson got the starts with Smith off the bench.

25 games into the season.

It took 25 games into the regular season, almost a third of the season after a horrible postseason where the elderly Smith proved he wasn't the answer to get Stephen Jackson to finally get the starts, and it needed injuries to Ginobili to make that happen as well. And on top of that Pop at one point actually gave ancient Danny Ferry a start before Jackson.

To me that doesn't bode well for Mahinmi getting immediate burn and starts while Pop has a healthy Oberto there at the least, even if Thomas doesn't get re-signed. After all, Oberto was the starter on a title team. Smith was a guy who never won anything in the NBA.

I agree that Pop should start Mahinmi. But going back over the history, including 2003, I can't predict that to happen.

[AFBlue]

The more I think about it....the less reactionary the Spurs should be.

Of course, I think the first step should be to re-sign Kurt Thomas. He's a decent player, even at his age, that should be able to bring more next year as he gets comfortable in the system.

Beyond that, I think the talent of bigs in FA is generally low and there isn't one guy the Spurs have to get. If the Spurs re-sign Thomas and give Mahinmi a shot early, they should be in a good position to make a determination if anything is needed down the stretch....whether that's a rookie the Spurs picked up in the second round or a lingering FA for the min.

[BuzzerBeater]

Getting spacy here, but I'm thinking that Pop's going to endorse some new changes after conferring with key players.
Pop has adjusted in the past when circumstances called for it.
He listens a lot to Timmy and Timmy's had some down time to put everything in perspective.

[timvp]

----------

more re: Jackson

Going back over box scores manages to both confirm and contradict my recollections.

Steve Smith began the year by starting opening night (Stephen Jackson played 5 minutes), but the injury put on him on ice.

The the hobbled Ginobili started a few games, but he was slowed by injury.

So who started after Ginobili was too hung up by injury to be counted on?

Danny Ferry according to the box score.

Then Jackson for a game, then Smith came back and started a string of games, during that time Manu went on IL, and then Jackson got the starts with Smith off the bench.

25 games into the season.

It took 25 games into the regular season, almost a third of the season after a horrible postseason where the elderly Smith proved he wasn't the answer to get Stephen Jackson to finally get the starts, and it needed injuries to Ginobili to make that happen as well. And on top of that Pop at one point actually gave ancient Danny Ferry a start before Jackson.

To me that doesn't bode well for Mahinmi getting immediate burn and starts while Pop has a healthy Oberto there at the least, even if Thomas doesn't get re-signed. After all, Oberto was the starter on a title team. Smith was a guy who never won anything in the NBA.

I agree that Pop should start Mahinmi. But going back over the history, including 2003, I can't predict that to happen.I don't know why you are surprised it took that long for Jackson to start. Yeah Smitty sucked but Jackson wasn't exactly tearing things up for the Spurs that year either. Jackson was HORRIBLE in the preseason, he shot like 35% in summer league and had shown no reason why he should start other than a stretch of games with the Nets ... before Byron Scott benched him and said Jackson was too dumb for the NBA.

Early in the 2002-03 season, whenever Jackson did good the Spurs lost. His +/- was off the charts low. He was extremely raw and Spurs fans back then were mostly complaining that Jackson was playing too much.

And the plan going into the season was to start Ginobili. IIRC, he started the first couple preseason games. But he was so hobbled that Pop went back with Smitty. The plan at the time was to let Ginobili heal and then put Ginobili back in the starting lineup. But Smitty got so bad he wasn't even startable as a placeholder.

After Pop gave Jax the starting job, it was far from a smooth ride. Turnovers, streaky shooting and poor defense highlighted his first few months as a starter. Luckily Pop stuck with it.

Oh and the game Ferry started, IIRC it was against the Timberwolves when Flip Saunders was in that phase of trying to start KG at small forward. It was a one-time matchup start to go up against the three seven-footers the Wolves were starting.

Overall, Jackson hadn't done much to earn the starting job before Pop gave it to him. Back then, there were as many Spurs fans who thought Jackson was a brainless chucker as there were Spurs fans who liked him.

Mahinmi actually has some seasoning and something the Spurs can use as a base. If Mahinmi is anywhere close to being ready for NBA action, I'm confident Pop will force feed him. We'll see though . . .

A better example from that 2003 team to compare to Mahinmi is Claxton. Pop could have gone with his veteran safety net in Steve Kerr but Pop remained dedicated to the 24-year-old Claxton. He never dropped him out of the rotation ... even after he got hurt and came back with Kerr playing the best ball of his Spurs career.

[ElNono]

The more I think about it....the less reactionary the Spurs should be.

Of course, I think the first step should be to re-sign Kurt Thomas. He's a decent player, even at his age, that should be able to bring more next year as he gets comfortable in the system.

Beyond that, I think the talent of bigs in FA is generally low and there isn't one guy the Spurs have to get. If the Spurs re-sign Thomas and give Mahinmi a shot early, they should be in a good position to make a determination if anything is needed down the stretch....whether that's a rookie the Spurs picked up in the second round or a lingering FA for the min.

That doesn't fly anymore. The west is no longer 3-4 teams deep. It's 8-9 teams deep now. We can't keep on having our starters have to produce 75+ points per game to win. We need to cut that back to 60+ so they can get some rest. Which means we need a bench that can give us 30+ a night on a consistent basis.
'Sticking to our old guns' doesn't work, because whenever our bench comes in, only one or two guys produce. Plus old guys get injured more often (Bones, Horry), which makes our bench even thinner, and puts even more pressure on our starters. If there's something we have to learn from this past season is that Tim, Tony and Manu were completely spent by the time the playoffs came around. We need a much more productive bench.
I don't know if you do it with vets or youngs, but we need at least twice the offensive output, and they need to keep the defense relatively the same.
No easy task.

[AFBlue]

I don't know if you do it with vets or youngs, but we need at least twice the offensive output, and they need to keep the defense relatively the same.
No easy task.

Exactly. You get that kind of production increase via lopsided trades or good veterans taking a paycut to get a ring....neither of which are likely to happen this off-season.

And again, since there isn't much of a difference talent-wise between the free agents that will require the full MLE and those that will require the LLE, it's probably best for the Spurs to take their time and assess the situation.

Bottom Line: The frontline player that can increase the offensive output and maintain defense doesn't exist in this year's draft or free agent class. So it's best for the Spurs not to panic and leverage the future (via draft picks or $$$).