"The best coach in the league (and its not even close) is Gregg Popovich"

[biba]

Opinion of a professional gambler who sees 1000 games a year.

- part of the interview is about Tim Donaghy scandal and part is about his gambling life -


Haralabos Voulgaris, a Professional Gambler's Take on the Tim Donaghy Scandal

June 11, 2008 2:10 PM

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-308/A-Professional-Gambler-s-Take-on-the-Tim-Donaghy-Scandal.html



"The flip side of that are the teams/players who do a great job of garnering extra possessions, my numbers tell me the Hornets and the Spurs do this best.

The best coach in the league (and its not even close) is Gregg Popovich. He is without peer in terms of how well he manages a game, as well as prepares his team. It's really not even close, he is just that much better than every other coach in the league. If you are ever unsure of what the correct strategy is in a certain situation, look to the Spurs. If they are doing it, it's probably the right strategy.

There are a lot of coaches who do a poor job with what I call the mathematics of the game, but to be fair, maybe they are better at other aspects of their job like motivation or player development.

However, I have a hard time believing that Doc Rivers could ever make up for his in-game strategy with his ability to motivate or develop players. I would like to have seen how the Celtics would have fared this year if they didn't hire Tom Thibodeau to install a great defensive system. If Popovich is the guy you lean to if you are unsure of what to do, Rivers is certainly the guy you look to if you want to know what NOT to do."

[Brutalis]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.

[xtremesteven33]

Pop BY FAR is the best coach....cmon man, with all homerism aside too.

Sloan is not good defensively
Phil is the only guy with pop on the same level

[lebomb]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.


Phil Jackson? Fuck that......he hasnt done shit without a superstar. Hell, he hasnt even really drafted anyone. He has always been handed a star studded team. Who in the hell couldnt win with that? Or without the FIX in place for that matter. :rolleyes

Jerry Sloan??? LOL, dude you are killing me :lmao
He hasnt won shit!!!!

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Phil Jackson > Gregg Popovich and it's not even close.

[Brutalis]

!! Biased Spur Fan Alert !!

[Marcus Bryant]

Is Harrrababalosss a Spurs fan?

[Brutalis]

Phil Jackson? Fuck that......he hasnt done shit without a superstar. Hell, he hasnt even really drafted anyone. He has always been handed a star studded team. Who in the hell couldnt win with that? Or without the FIX in place for that matter. :rolleyes

Jerry Sloan??? LOL, dude you are killing me :lmao
He hasnt won shit!!!!

Alright dude look. I am right there with ya in your distress and meltdown about the league cheating and all that but god fucking damn if you have not lost your got damn mind. You should stick to your UTSA threads in the college section.

[Extra Stout]

Phil Jackson? Fuck that......he hasnt done shit without a superstar. Hell, he hasnt even really drafted anyone. He has always been handed a star studded team. Who in the hell couldnt win with that? Or without the FIX in place for that matter. :rolleyes

Jerry Sloan??? LOL, dude you are killing me :lmao
He hasnt won shit!!!!
What has Gregg Popovich ever done without Tim Duncan?

[lebomb]

Alright dude look. I am right there with ya in your distress and meltdown about the league cheating and all that but god fucking damn if you have not lost your got damn mind. You should stick to your UTSA threads in the college section.


Fuck that......Im not being biased at all. Phil has not done anything without being given top 5 in the league players. He was given the Lakers team with Shaq and Kobe and then given Gasol. What could he do with a team that he put together?? Hmmmmmm......tell me that? Pop has done wonders slightly rebuilding his team every year and being at the top. I truly doubt Phil could do that. :rolleyes

[lebomb]

What has Gregg Popovich ever done without Tim Duncan?


Tim was drafted. Michael J.....Shaq.....Kobe and Gasol were handed to Phil. WTF can he do with say a Mavericks or Suns team?? You think he would have won it all? Hey, its all a matter of opinion......but, Ive always thought Phil was overrated.

[Spurs da champs]

What has Gregg Popovich ever done without Tim Duncan?

What has Phil done without Kobe,MJ,Shaq,and Pippen?

[Brutalis]

Fuck that......Im not being biased at all. Phil has not done anything without being given top 5 in the league players. He was given the Lakers team with Shaq and Kobe and then given Gasol. What could he do with a team that he put together?? Hmmmmmm......tell me that? Pop has done wonders slightly rebuilding his team every year and being at the top. I truly doubt Phil could do that. :rolleyes

That's his fault, that he has had such great players to coach. It's all his fucking fault that stupid little bitch ass horse dung glasses wearing prick stick. I mean fuck, all his wins, the win percentage, the titles, fuck em all they mean shit. I am so in agreement with you.

Pop has lost more with better teams than Phil has. Think about it. But when Phil has a good team what happens, he goes to the Finals.

Yep you're right you win la dee da where's the chocolate factory.

[The Truth #6]

I'm gonna check out this article. The guy's name is the phoniest I could imagine. I understand not wanting to use your real name, but it still made me laugh.

[lebomb]

That's his fault, that he has had such great players to coach. It's all his fucking fault that stupid little bitch ass horse dung glasses wearing prick stick. I mean fuck, all his wins, the win percentage, the titles, fuck em all they mean shit. I am so in agreement with you.

Pop has lost more with better teams than Phil has. Think about it. But when Phil has a good team what happens, he goes to the Finals.

Yep you're right you win la dee da where's the chocolate factory.

Dude, whatever. You like Phil cool. I happen to think if both had the exact same teams......clones......Pop would out coach and beat Phils team. IMHO.

Plus Pop would not bitch and whine about calls, or try and do some stupid fuckin mind game bullshit. Phil sucks ass in that department.

[E20]

Pop will be number 1 in my book. You realists can go fuck yourselves.

[Sec24Row7]

name me a coach that has won a title without a great player...

If Phil wins this year it will be the first time that he has won a title without TWO first ballot hall of famers.

Pop has already won two of those titles.

[Brutalis]

Dude, whatever. You like Phil cool. I happen to think if both had the exact same teams......clones......Pop would out coach and beat Phils team. IMHO.

Plus Pop would not bitch and whine about calls, or try and do some stupid fuckin mind game bullshit. Phil sucks ass in that department.

I agree, Phil is a whiny little whore bait who bitches and moans when things don't go his way. He is a poor sport, and asshole, he trips players (lmao at that video), and fucking is a lousy person.

But, stats don't lie. The ball don't lie. He is ^^^ on everything that Pop has. So, I accept it and acknowledge it, so should you.

[lebomb]

But, stats don't lie. The ball don't lie. He is ^^^ on everything that Pop has. So, I accept it and acknowledge it, so should you.


Like I said sorry but I dont agree.......Phil has had arguably the TWO best players to ever breath fresh air on his teams. Put Phil on a team that is rebuilding, where he has to actually draft players, or not be given superstars and then lets see what he does.

If Pop had the same opportunities that Phil had with Chicago and the Lakers, he would have at least the same amount of titles. Put Phil on the Spurs since 99, and I doubt the Spurs would have won 4.

[Brutalis]

If, if, when, what, if if if. What?

[The Truth #6]

Cool article. Evidently, that's his real name. My bad. It sounded fictitious, like Kaiser Souze.

[lebomb]

If, if, when, what, if if if. What?


We will agree to disagree. I think Pop is the best.....you are all on Phils sack. :lmao Cool?....cool. Have a good one.

[lefty]

Pop iis really a great great coach.

But what was that in WCF? I mean the Oberto and Finley lovin', and the late realisation that Barry was en fuego.
:bang

[Brutalis]

We will agree to disagree. I think Pop is the best.....you are all on Phils sack. :lmao Cool?....cool. Have a good one.

I'm on his nuts cause stats and facts are big fat liars!

[1Parker1]

People like to point out that Phil Jackson had arguably the 3 of the top 10 best players in the history of the league, Pop has had he benefit of having two #1 draft picks playing under him. I never understood that argument used against Phil. Those players didn't win anything before/after Phil came to town and they didnt become anything until Phil coached them.

I'm not sure if Pop is a better coach than Phil or vice versa. To me, they are actually pretty even. I think each has a strength that the other one doesn't. But the argument used against Phil to say "Oh well, it's easy to win when you have Jordan, or Shaq, or Kobe" is very misleading.

[romad_20]

With the amount of basketball you watch, and the systematic way you analyze it, you must have all kinds of insight into the game that most of us don't have. I'm not looking for gambling tips here, but in general, can you share some knowledge? Like, is this or that coach exceptionally good or bad? Who's your MVP? Are there tactics you think are great or terrible, like Hack-a-Shaq?


As far as insights go, I think teams that are losing tend to wait too long to foul. I also think that if the rules for "hack a Shaq or hack a Ben" aren't changed, teams should really consider fouling players who hit less than 45% of their free throws even when winning a game between the four-minute mark and the two-minute mark of the fourth quarter.

One tactic that I feel is pretty silly is the "foul to give." A lot of teams use this really liberally and will even foul when there is a difference in the game clock to shot clock. For example say there is a four-second differential between the shot and game clock and a team will still take "foul to give." This is foolish because it eliminates the last four seconds whereby the defending team could then get the ball and have a chance to score.

Another clock management example I hate is when teams don't try to get a shot off in the last 30-39 seconds of a quarter, there are a lot of teams who seem to waste these seconds.

Both of these are pretty basic game situations, but you'd be surprised how many teams eliminate extra offensive possessions as if it's their job.

The flip side of that are the teams/players who do a great job of garnering extra possessions, my numbers tell me the Hornets and the Spurs do this best.

The best coach in the league (and its not even close) is Gregg Popovich. He is without peer in terms of how well he manages a game, as well as prepares his team. It's really not even close, he is just that much better than every other coach in the league. If you are ever unsure of what the correct strategy is in a certain situation, look to the Spurs. If they are doing it, it's probably the right strategy.

There are a lot of coaches who do a poor job with what I call the mathematics of the game, but to be fair, maybe they are better at other aspects of their job like motivation or player development.

However, I have a hard time believing that Doc Rivers could ever make up for his in-game strategy with his ability to motivate or develop players. I would like to have seen how the Celtics would have fared this year if they didn't hire Tom Thibodeau to install a great defensive system. If Popovich is the guy you lean to if you are unsure of what to do, Rivers is certainly the guy you look to if you want to know what NOT to do.

As far as MVP goes, I am not even sure what criteria the NBA uses to define its MVP award. If you go by the last few years, especially the years Nash won and use the "guy who means the most to his team" definition. I'd have to go with LeBron, Garnett, or even Chris Paul over Kobe.

I'd like to see how far the Cavs would go if Kobe and LeBron switched teams.










It's not based off of some homer opinion. The guy is professional gambler that watches 1000 games a year and has a giant database to base his bets off of. He also says Doc Rivers is the worst decision maker (we already know this) But if the the guy says that Pop is the best and it's not even close who am I to argue, he makes a living making bets on the NBA. He most know something.

[K-State Spur]

Phil Jackson? Fuck that......he hasnt done shit without a superstar. Hell, he hasnt even really drafted anyone. He has always been handed a star studded team. Who in the hell couldnt win with that? Or without the FIX in place for that matter. :rolleyes

Jerry Sloan??? LOL, dude you are killing me :lmao
He hasnt won shit!!!!

Pop's always had a superstar too.

However, Phil has always had at least 2 of the top 10 players in the game on his championship teams (with the possible exception of '98, when Pippen was starting to break down).

Pop's never had more than 1.

[rAm]

People like to point out that Phil Jackson had arguably the 3 of the top 10 best players in the history of the league, Pop has had he benefit of having two #1 draft picks playing under him. I never understood that argument used against Phil. Those players didn't win anything before/after Phil came to town and they didnt become anything until Phil coached them.

I'm not sure if Pop is a better coach than Phil or vice versa. To me, they are actually pretty even. I think each has a strength that the other one doesn't. But the argument used against Phil to say "Oh well, it's easy to win when you have Jordan, or Shaq, or Kobe" is very misleading.

This

[Supergirl]

Pop and Jerry Sloan are the best coaches in the league IMO. I think it's no coincidence they are the two longest tenured coaches.

Jackson gravytrains his way to greatness on the heels of a superstar. Pop and Sloan are the best at identifying and cultivating talent, and are disciplined and efficient in their approaches.

[xtremesteven33]

For a compulsive gambler to say his money is on Popovich as the best coach in the NBA. ill believe him

[jag]

Jackson>Pop>Sloan

I hate Jackson, but he eats Pop's lunch in their "chess games" of adjustments whenever playoff time comes.

[slayermin]

name me a coach that has won a title without a great player...

Larry Brown

[SPURSGOAT]

YAY POP!!! POP IS THE BEST!!! :king :toast :clap

:flag:

[ducks]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.

jerry sloan has done what exactly?

[tmtcsc]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.

Jerry Sloan ? He might be the best coach w/o a Ring. C'mon now, you gotta have at least one.


As for Phil Jackson, he's an outstanding coach but I have 3 names for you:

Kobe, Shaq and MJ.

Pop has won 4 championships with multiple rosters, save for Tim Duncan. And when he's not winning them, he's getting pretty damn close.

[SPURSGOAT]

Jerry Sloan ? He might be the best coach w/o a Ring. C'mon now, you gotta have at least one.


As for Phil Jackson, he's an outstanding coach but I have 3 names for you:

Kobe, Shaq and MJ.

Pop has won 4 championships with multiple rosters, save for Tim Duncan. And when he's not winning them, he's getting pretty damn close.

Agreed! :hat

[DarrinS]

Are you kidding me?


What other basketball coach in the universe could've succeeded with


Jordan/Pippen
Kobe/Snaq


That man turned these scrubs into future HOF'ers. They wouldn't be jack diddley squat without Phillip MyCrevasse Jackson there to guide them. :rolleyes

[romad_20]

I agree Pop has had Duncan and Robinson for 2 of those titles. But I do not agree that Duncan and Robinson = Shaq and Kobe or MJ and Pippen. It could be argued that Duncan is equal to or better than any of those 4 but Big Dave is one level below them. Jackson has had much better superstars than Pop has had and Pop hasn't had down years like Jackson has had in LA. Jackson also pulls the ref card over and over and gives no respect.

[SPURSGOAT]

Are you kidding me?


What other basketball coach in the universe could've succeeded with


Jordan/Pippen
Kobe/Snaq


That man turned these scrubs into future HOF'ers. They wouldn't be jack diddley squat without Phillip MyCrevasse Jackson there to guide them. :rolleyes

:lol

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Pop is great because of his consistency (highest win percentage), but having the greatest PF of all time, helps a little too--especially when they're a cornerstore Big, which is a lot easier to build around, than a SG.

Phil Jackson still >>>>> Pop. It's not even close. His teams in the last two seasons, 2006, 2007 , should have never made the playoffs, even WITH Kobe (see: 2005)

And this team right now should have never gone all the way with Gasol. Maybe 2nd round, a 3rd round outing. Looking at their regular season, they were not any better than the Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Hornets in making the finals, but Phil lives for playoffs.
Pop may be a great coach in running teams in the long run, using the regular season smartly, but Pop kinda sucks in the playoffs relative to Phil.
His 41-0 record that was brought up this year is crazy.

[Strike]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.

Phil Jackson has an argument. But Jerry Sloan?

[mrspurs]

isiah thomas hands down....then maybe pop

[Strike]

Larry Brown

:lmao

Over-fucking-rated.

[Sway]

I cant stand Phil or the Lakers, but I still think Phil>>>Pop. You cant argue stats and facts.

[Tacker]

Bullshit, Jerry Sloan has 2 allstars to work with in Deron and Carlos...Popavich has 3 allstars to work with in Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, with Duncan considered by many the greatest PF of all time. Phil Jackson has one in Kobe Bryant..

MASSIVE FAIL

[E20]

Phil jackson landed in Chicago at a nice time when Collins got booted. Michael had been in the league for a few years, he was developing and with the addition of Scottie pippen and other solid role players like Rodman, Grant and Paxson all Phil had to do was run an offense to capitlize off of Michael and Pippen. If Doug Collins were to stay and not get fired Bulls still would have won their championships. Same scenario for the Lakers with Del Harris. Also if Phil is so fucking good how come he bailed on the Lakers the 1st time when Shaq got traded? Also if Phil is so fucking good at coaching he should have gotten past the ECSF during those two years Jordan was out.

[Tacker]

Pop's always had a superstar too.

However, Phil has always had at least 2 of the top 10 players in the game on his championship teams (with the possible exception of '98, when Pippen was starting to break down).

Pop's never had more than 1.

Same goes with Popavich.... He had Duncan and Robinson...... Sloan had Malone and Stockton...

Your argument fails....

[Tacker]

Bullshit, Jerry Sloan has 2 allstars to work with in Deron and Carlos...Popavich has 3 allstars to work with in Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, with Duncan considered by many the greatest PF of all time. Phil Jackson has one in Kobe Bryant..

MASSIVE FAIL

Why is Phil Jackson the highest paid coach??? FUCKING FAILED!

[E20]

Same goes with Popavich.... He had Duncan and Robinson...... Sloan had Malone and Stockton...

Your argument fails....

Robinson had back problems and was severly limited. He was not in top form at that time.

[Tacker]

Robinson had back problems and was severly limited. He was not in top form at that time.

and so was scottie in his final bulls year.....

[E20]

and so was scottie in his final bulls year.....

yeah then Scottie contintued to play like 6 more seasons.

[Tacker]

yeah then Scottie contintued to play like 6 more seasons.

6 more seasons with another team not the bulls

[SRJ]

Mike D'Antoni owns Phil Jackson, re: 2006, 2007 playoffs.

[E20]

6 more seasons with another team not the bulls

So obviously Scotties injury wasn't that bad that he continued to play 6 more seasons. Robinosn was never the same and retired after 3 seasons of limited play.

[E20]

I'm just gonna point ou the 03 championship run. The Spurs won with an old ageing useless Robinson, reserves that composed of Steve Kerr, steve smith, danny ferry all dinosaurs. A young erratic not as good Manu ginobili, a head case in Stephen Jackson, and a young tony parker, with Malik Rose coming off the bench as the 6th man.

[Tacker]

So obviously Scotties injury wasn't that bad that he continued to play 6 more seasons. Robinosn was never the same and retired after 3 seasons of limited play.

What Im trying to say is Scottie Pippen wasnt a top 10 player during the Bulls 2nd 3 peat meaning PHil Jackson basically had 1 top 10 player contradicting with the other guys post...

[E20]

What Im trying to say is Scottie Pippen wasnt a top 10 player during the Bulls 2nd 3 peat meaning PHil Jackson basically had 1 top 10 player contradicting with the other guys post...
He had Michael Jordan, which was enough, but my point is that you can never rate coaches in the nba of which coach is better than which, because every coach who has won a championship has had 1 or more players who are incredibly good and without them the coaches would be nothing. So rating coaches is a no no, rating players or teams is a yes.

And I'll stand my by my homer biased opnion that Pop is the best coach in the league right now.

[Tacker]

He had Michael Jordan, which was enough, but my point is that you can never rate coaches in the nba of which coach is better than which, because every coach who has won a championship has had 1 or more players who are incredibly good and without them the coaches would be nothing. So rating coaches is a no no, rating players or teams is a yes.

And I'll stand my by my homer biased opnion that Pop is the best coach in the league right now.

And Im going to stand by my biased opinion that Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time.... but lets get one thing straight...... NO TEAM IN NBA HISTORY HAS WON AN NBA TITLE WITHOUT 2 ALLSTARS........ Except for the 2003 Spurs, 95 Rockets, 91 Bulls.........

[T Park]

Jackson > Pop

Pop >>>>>>>> Sloan

its not even close.

[PDXSpursFan]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.

I don't even consider Sloan one of the best coaches on the league. He has NEVER win a championship, even in the old days when he had the best PG & PF (Stockton & Malone). Also, it took him what - a full year to realize that Deron Williams should be the starting PG instead of Keith McLeod :wow

[dg7md]

Professional gambler?

[Pucho!!!]

Also if Phil is so fucking good at coaching he should have gotten past the ECSF during those two years Jordan was out.

Best point in this whole thread, so true, so true. Theres more to coaching than being placed in a great situation.

[MI21]

I actually think against everyone but Phil Jackson, Pop is quite likely the best coach in the NBA.

Against Jackson though, his worst tends to come out.

[Oh, Gee!!]

pop's good, but....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Phil Jackson, love or hate him, may be the best coach the game has ever seen, and it's not just that he had MJ/Scottie and Shaq/Kobe. If you need that explained to you, I don't think you know much about the NBA.

E20's point about the years MJ was out is around the wrong way - somehow Phil coached Scottie (who is not a lead banana) and a bunch of unremarkable players to the ESCFs! That was incredible! Go have a look at those rosters - they are full of dross - yet somehow Phil coaxed them to 55 and 47 wins!

In the late-90s and early-00s, Pop was a decidely average coach - he made some bad mistakes and seemed lost at times. Then, some time in 2002-3 the lightbulb went off and he went from average to very good, and then to excellent by the Finals in 2003... I think he took his licks, learned his lessons, and steadily became one of the best minds in the game. Since then he has proven to be a hall-of-fame coach.

[tmtcsc]

I think people are missing out on how important Tex Winter (Asst. coach and architect of the Triangle offense) was and is to Phil Jackson. Phil is great because of the system. Its pretty damn good. He also has a unique way of motivating each of his players.

Given the same rosters, I would think that Pop would have won as many titles as Phil. Its kind of pointless to argue about since at the end of the day, Phil has score board.

If I could change anything about Pop, it would be his stubborness to stick with a sinking plan. Sometimes you have to adjust. I think his faith in his players is some times his down fall. But hey, that's why they love him.

[spurscenter]

Opinion of a professional gambler who sees 1000 games a year.

- part of the interview is about Tim Donaghy scandal and part is about his gambling life -


Haralabos Voulgaris, a Professional Gambler's Take on the Tim Donaghy Scandal

June 11, 2008 2:10 PM

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-308/A-Professional-Gambler-s-Take-on-the-Tim-Donaghy-Scandal.html



"The flip side of that are the teams/players who do a great job of garnering extra possessions, my numbers tell me the Hornets and the Spurs do this best.

The best coach in the league (and its not even close) is Gregg Popovich. He is without peer in terms of how well he manages a game, as well as prepares his team. It's really not even close, he is just that much better than every other coach in the league. If you are ever unsure of what the correct strategy is in a certain situation, look to the Spurs. If they are doing it, it's probably the right strategy.

There are a lot of coaches who do a poor job with what I call the mathematics of the game, but to be fair, maybe they are better at other aspects of their job like motivation or player development.

However, I have a hard time believing that Doc Rivers could ever make up for his in-game strategy with his ability to motivate or develop players. I would like to have seen how the Celtics would have fared this year if they didn't hire Tom Thibodeau to install a great defensive system. If Popovich is the guy you lean to if you are unsure of what to do, Rivers is certainly the guy you look to if you want to know what NOT to do."


pop by far

he is the best

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Is Harrrababalosss a Spurs fan?

I'm glad somebody asked the question.

[romad_20]

I'm glad somebody asked the question.


He says he's a fan of the game. I would think you'd have to be pretty objective to be a gambler on the NBA for a living.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's amusing that we have 3 pages about how Spurs fans are "homers" or whatever for thinking Pop might be as good as (or, gasp, better than) Jackson when the original assertion apparently was not made by a Spurs fan.

Some of you are retarded.

[z0sa]

Phil is the only guy with pop on the same level

he didnt have the GOAT or anything for 6 of those 9

[rascal]

Pop is a better coach than he is a gm.

[rascal]

It's amusing that we have 3 pages about how Spurs fans are "homers" or whatever for thinking Pop might be as good as (or, gasp, better than) Jackson when the original assertion apparently was not made by a Spurs fan.

Some of you are retarded.


You can call Spur fans homers in any thread on this site and be correct.

[rascal]

I actually think against everyone but Phil Jackson, Pop is quite likely the best coach in the NBA.

Against Jackson though, his worst tends to come out.




Seems that way but Jackson has had the better more talented teams.

[romad_20]

Phil Jackson > Jerry Sloan > Greg Poppovich > Nellie Ball

:lol Sloan couldn't win it all with Stockton and Malone and MJ was gone two years when he had them so quit with this Sloan is better than Pop crap. It's not even close between Pop and Sloan.

[ambchang]

What Im trying to say is Scottie Pippen wasnt a top 10 player during the Bulls 2nd 3 peat meaning PHil Jackson basically had 1 top 10 player contradicting with the other guys post...

But Pippen did finish #10 in MVP voting that year, despite having Jordan winning the award.

But overall, Pop and Phil should be on top, and Phil does have a head-to-head advantage over Pop, whether it was because of talent available is another question.

[Extra Stout]

Fuck that......Im not being biased at all. Phil has not done anything without being given top 5 in the league players. He was given the Lakers team with Shaq and Kobe and then given Gasol. What could he do with a team that he put together?? Hmmmmmm......tell me that? Pop has done wonders slightly rebuilding his team every year and being at the top. I truly doubt Phil could do that. :rolleyes
So Phil Jackson is not a great coach because he is not a GM who assembles teams? What?

[Extra Stout]

Tim was drafted. Michael J.....Shaq.....Kobe and Gasol were handed to Phil. WTF can he do with say a Mavericks or Suns team?? You think he would have won it all? Hey, its all a matter of opinion......but, Ive always thought Phil was overrated.
Tim was drafted... with the #1 overall pick in the draft. Yeah, hell of a diamond in the rough Pop found there.

I can count the number of coaches who won championships without great players on one finger. Larry Brown. 2004 Pistons. I guess he's the only decent coach the league has ever seen.

[Extra Stout]

name me a coach that has won a title without a great player...

If Phil wins this year it will be the first time that he has won a title without TWO first ballot hall of famers.

Pop has already won two of those titles.
What, because it might take two or three ballots for Manu to get in?

[Extra Stout]

Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich are easily the two best coaches in the league. PJ has beaten Pop in 4 out of 5 playoff matchups.

For years, the knock on PJ was that he never coached a rebuilding team; he just took over teams that were already going to the conference finals and put them over the top. Well, this Laker team marks that off the checklist, and they were already leading the West before the Gasol trade. The Gasol trade was the league's way of keeping things on track after the Bynum injury. This is PJ's team and only PJ's team.

[ShoogarBear]

PJ > Pop if only because Pop continually chokes against him.

[romad_20]

I think PJ has Pop's number but I do think Pop is better out of a timeout, better at coaching defense and better at getting his players prepared from 1-12. Tex Winter is a big reason PJ has had the success he's had and I don't know if that's been taken into account. Look at how many coaches have come from Pop's system and how many PJ has groomed.

[Supergirl]

Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich are easily the two best coaches in the league. PJ has beaten Pop in 4 out of 5 playoff matchups.

For years, the knock on PJ was that he never coached a rebuilding team; he just took over teams that were already going to the conference finals and put them over the top. Well, this Laker team marks that off the checklist, and they were already leading the West before the Gasol trade. The Gasol trade was the league's way of keeping things on track after the Bynum injury. This is PJ's team and only PJ's team.

Gimme a break. Phil conveniently "retired" while the Lakers were rebuilding, and came back after they had drafted Bynum. He's got Fisher back, from their 2000-2002 years, and got handed Gasol in a gift basket.

Jackson has never had to WORK as a coach, you know, actually COACH. You can't even say he's just a shrewd businessman, knowing when to sign on to a team - he's married to the boss's daughter. He's basically just been in the right place at right time and ridden that luck to championships.

Pop and Sloan are tops.

People don't seem to get that Sloan had the misfortune of coaching his best team during MJ's dominant years. He took his team to the WCF multiple times, and his ability to transition an entirely new team with Boozer, Williams, etc into a championship contender is ASTOUNDING. Anyone who underestimates how good Sloan is underestimates what being a coach really MEANS.

[lebomb]

If Phil didnt have one of the top 5 players in the league on his teams........his teams would be well below 500. I really dont even think he coaches these top players.....all he ever does is sit back at the game and just stare blankly with that dumbass look on his face.

[E20]

People get the notion that more rings equals better coach/player. No that is entirely false.

[E20]

Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich are easily the two best coaches in the league. PJ has beaten Pop in 4 out of 5 playoff matchups.



Don't mean to nit pick, but PJ has beaten Pop 4 out of the 6 playoff matchups.

[Extra Stout]

Gimme a break. Phil conveniently "retired" while the Lakers were rebuilding, and came back after they had drafted Bynum. He's got Fisher back, from their 2000-2002 years, and got handed Gasol in a gift basket.
He retired for one (1) year. But you're right, Andrew Bynum was immediately a Top 5 bigman out of high school. He didn't need any coaching or development to become good. And Derek Fisher is a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Who wouldn't win with him? :rolleyes


Jackson has never had to WORK as a coach, you know, actually COACH. You can't even say he's just a shrewd businessman, knowing when to sign on to a team - he's married to the boss's daughter. He's basically just been in the right place at right time and ridden that luck to championships.
Right, these Lakers were already a veteran-laden perennial 60-win team when Jackson came back from his lengthy one-year retirement. There was no coaching involved. If anything, these Lakers are getting kind of creaky in the knees because Jackson has had to depend so much on veterans to mask his inability to develop young players.


People don't seem to get that Sloan had the misfortune of coaching his best team during MJ's dominant years. He took his team to the WCF multiple times, and his ability to transition an entirely new team with Boozer, Williams, etc into a championship contender is ASTOUNDING. Anyone who underestimates how good Sloan is underestimates what being a coach really MEANS.
It was so disappointing when the Jazz repeatedly lost to Michael Jordan's teams in the Western Conference Finals all those years, wasn't it?

[ShoogarBear]

PJ wasn't the Laker coach in 1999.

[Extra Stout]

Don't mean to nit pick, but PJ has beaten Pop 4 out of the 6 playoff matchups.
Pop won in 2003, and... when else?

Kurt Rambis coached the Lakers in 1999.

[E20]

My bad. Fuck there goes some ammo for pop.

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, and for those of you bashing Jackson--name another coach who would have even gotten the 06 and 07 Lakers to the playoffs.

[E20]

Oh, and for those of you bashing Jackson--name another coach who would have even gotten the 06 and 07 Lakers to the playoffs.
Pop.

[ShoogarBear]

Pop.

Based on what evidence? Pop has always required a huge veteran core. His never had a roster like those Laker teams, unless you want to count 1997.

[lebomb]

Pop.


Yep, and they would not have dropped 3 in a row to Phoenix.

[E20]

Based on what evidence? Pop has always required a huge veteran core. His never had a roster like those Laker teams, unless you want to count 1997.

I guess you haven't realized but I am a biased homer when ti comes to the Spurs. I set reality all aside when it comes to talking about basketball and the spurs.

[Extra Stout]

Denying PJ's record as a great coach is simply hating. There are no sound arguments that can be made; only sour grapes.

[E20]

Denying PJ's record as a great coach is simply hating. There are no sound arguments that can be made; only sour grapes.

What about biased homerism? It's not sound, but I'll take that.

[lebomb]

Denying PJ's record as a great coach is simply hating. There are no sound arguments that can be made; only sour grapes.


I swear I will change my mind.....if PJ takes a team with one great player and builds them to a championship caliber team.....ala POP. He has NEVER, EVER had to do that.

[Extra Stout]

I swear I will change my mind.....if PJ takes a team with one great player and builds them to a championship caliber team.....ala POP. He has NEVER, EVER had to do that.
When did Pop do that?

[ShoogarBear]

I swear I will change my mind.....if PJ takes a team with one great player and builds them to a championship caliber team.....ala POP. He has NEVER, EVER had to do that.

Well, I think that's silly. For one thing, Pop didn't "build" any of his teams. He for all intents and purposes started off with a team of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. He then was able to continue to add new pieces to the team as needed.

It's easy to argue that PJ has already done more than Pop ever has or ever will do.

If the Lakers win it this year, will that satisfy your criteria?

[E20]

When did Pop do that?
2003.

Most people before the season started predicted the Spurs do finish like 8th or 7th. They didn't consider David Robinson to be great or an impact player he was old and injured. He only averged 20 MPG that season and the rest of the Spurs team were old players or young rookies.

[romad_20]

He retired for one (1) year. But you're right, Andrew Bynum was immediately a Top 5 bigman out of high school. He didn't need any coaching or development to become good. And Derek Fisher is a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Who wouldn't win with him? :rolleyes





To give credit where credit is due, Kareem is the one who's been coaching Bynum. It's well documented.

No one address my comments of Pop being better out of a timeout, better defensive coach and preparing his players 1-12 better. Jackson is also a prick to his own players, personality and motivation has to come into play as well.

I also made a point earlier in the thread that Pop has had Duncan, but has not had a second player the caliber of Pippen, Kobe and Shaq.

[Extra Stout]

2003.

Most people before the season started predicted the Spurs do finish like 8th or 7th. They didn't consider David Robinson to be great or an impact player he was old and injured. He only averged 20 MPG that season and the rest of the Spurs team were old players or young rookies.
You don't consider Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker to be great players?

[E20]

You don't consider Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker to be great players?

In 2003? No.
In 2003, Parker and Manu weren't even close to as good as they are now. Manu was a rookie who had only one decent playoff series ... against the Lakers. Parker was a 20-year-old point guard who was inconsistent, as is to be expected for a guy who should have been a sophomore in college. You could make a case for Parker being the second best player on that team (although that's likely not the case), however Ginobili was probably the sixth or seventh best player on that team. Totally different than '05 and '07.

These aren't even my words, I stole this from timvp in this thread: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98855&page=5

But I would have said something along those lines.

[Extra Stout]

however Ginobili was probably the sixth or seventh best player on that team.
David Robinson would have spittle all over his monitor if he read that.

[lebomb]

No kidding.....Pop does not get the respect he deserves as a coach because he makes subtle adjustments to his squad and keeps on winning championships. We really only kept the big 3......that were drafted and developed through the Spurs system. Also, look at what Pop did with Bruce Bowen??!!! PJ would have never developed or even used a player like him.

Im sorry, I just dont think PJ has had to do what Pop has. There is noway PJ could have had the same success with the Spurs as Pop has. I think he would have bailed out after a year or so.

[Extra Stout]

I'm a bitter hater. Phil Jackson could lead blind Armenian orphans to an NBA title and I'd still call him a gravy-trainer.

[Extra Stout]

No kidding.....Pop does not get the respect he deserves as a coach because he makes subtle adjustments to his squad and keeps on winning championships. We really only kept the big 3......that were drafted and developed through the Spurs system. Also, look at what Pop did with Bruce Bowen??!!! PJ would have never developed or even used a player like him.

Im sorry, I just dont think PJ has had to do what Pop has. There is noway PJ could have had the same success with the Spurs as Pop has. I think he would have bailed out after a year or so.
Gregg Popovich gets no love because he coaches the San Antonio Spurs, he does not suffer fools, he coaches the San Antonio Spurs, he avoids the spotlight, and he coaches the San Antonio Spurs.

Not every coach is right for every team. Pop would struggle if he had to coach an egomaniac like Michael Jordan, Shaq, or Kobe Bryant. PJ's Jedi mind tricks wouldn't work on a guy like Tim Duncan.

[romad_20]

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me how many coaches under Phil have become successful, or what impact the creator of the triangle offense working with him for 20years has had. Or what he's done without 2 superstar (not just allstar) players on his team.

I'm sounding like a hater, but I don't think rings=best coach.

[Extra Stout]

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me how many coaches under Phil have become successful, or what impact the creator of the triangle offense working with him for 20years has had. Or what he's done without 2 superstar (not just allstar) players on his team.

I'm sounding like a hater, but I don't think rings=best coach.
Pau Gasol is not a superstar, but rather only an All-Star; so I'd say the best Phil Jackson has done without 2 superstars is to make it to the NBA Finals.

[E20]

David Robinson would have spittle all over his monitor if he read that.
1. Tim Duncan
2/3 David robinson/Tony Parker(interhchangable)
4/5 Stephen Jackson/Malik Rose(Interchangeable)
6/7 Rookie Manu Ginobili/ Speedy Claxton.



The 2003 Spurs were composed of a monster Tim Duncan, an aging and injured David Robinson, a bunch old, past their prime vets who could just shoot jumpers, 3 inconsistent rookies 1 of them being hot headed, and Malik Rose as the 6th man. 1 Great player, 1 former great, but aging/injured, a bunch of unproven rookies and aging vets.

[romad_20]

Pau Gasol is not a superstar, but rather only an All-Star; so I'd say the best Phil Jackson has done without 2 superstars is to make it to the NBA Finals.


I agree with that point, so if he doesn't win it? Byron Scott has coached his way to the finals, hell Doc Rivers coaching in the finals right now shows what can happen if you've got enough talent on the team. Phil has had a top 10 player of all time on all of his championship teams(6 times with the GOAT) and two of them on the teams from 2000-2002. He lost to Pop in 2003 when Pop had a much less talented roster. He lost to Detroit and had 4, count them 4, Hall of Fame players.

Phil is a great coach and indeed might be a better coach than Pop but it's not just some open and shut case. I think Pop has a good arguement for the best coach in the league right now.

[IronMexican]

toss up between pop and phil, either way you're in a good spot.

[Extra Stout]

Phil is a great coach and indeed might be a better coach than Pop but it's not just some open and shut case. I think Pop has a good arguement for the best coach in the league right now.
I don't think it's an open and shut case either. There are some things Pop definitely does better. I merely argue against the idea that Pop is obviously better because Phil Jackson is an overrated gravy-trainer.

[romad_20]

I don't think it's an open and shut case either. There are some things Pop definitely does better. I merely argue against the idea that Pop is obviously better because Phil Jackson is an overrated gravy-trainer.

I totally agree.

BTW are the girls in the above sig of age, jeez.

[Beast]

Pop is not the best coach in the league.

Phil Jackson... Jerry Sloan... then Pop. Don't get bias now.

phil jax= nothing but a GRAVY TRAINER!! when he was playing in the NBA, ever since he's been coaching the NBA, even in his personal life!! phil is NOT the best coach BY FAR, sorry!!

[E20]

Doc Rivers > Phil Jackson

[Pucho!!!]

toss up between pop and phil, either way you're in a good spot.

First of all, nice pic :toast, but no, I'd have to disagree it seems that Phil has been runnin the same stuff since the jordan days, which makes him more of a situational coach meaning the situation has to be rite (must have a prolific sg). Pop has evolved his system, tweaking it with every addition. The system he ran with david and tim is somewhat different from that which he runs now (more guard play, small ball).

[underdawg]

Pau Gasol is not a superstar, but rather only an All-Star; so I'd say the best Phil Jackson has done without 2 superstars is to make it to the NBA Finals.

I disagree - Gasol (up until the finals) has played like a superstar. He's been undefendable for the most part in the playoffs. There's been nothing done by Phil to make that happen - Gasol hangs out by the rim and get's dunks and tip-ins. What magical strategy did Phil employ to make that happen? If you think for a second that Gasol hasn't been one of the best big men in the playoffs, you are suffering from denial. Fact is that Phil has had nothing to do with the gifts he's been given for players. Is that his offense that he's running? Are you going to tell me that he's come up with a masterplan on defense? Please tell me why and how Phil is such a great coach.

[mikekim]

yeah...IronMexican...time for a sig change.

I'll have to agree with what some have said in here. They're different coaches for different teams/situations. Phil is a "superstars' coach." I see him as having more of a psychological/motivator skill-set, along with his coaching ability, which is pretty damn good.

Pop, I think, is clearly a better "X's and O's" coach. He knows the game and can get the better plan out there than Phil. He doesn't put up with any of the crap from players though. And that's where he falls short to Phil. He doesn't have the skill, or concern, to coax talent out of his players. The "relational" aspect. And like it or not, that is a significant part of coaching.

Pop is the better pure basketball coach. Phil is not as good at pure-basketball, X's and O's...but he has Tex Winter to help him on that. And he's a much better motivator and diplomat as a coach.

Of course, I have tons more respect for Pop. While I have had issues with his no-nonsense, "my way or the highway" approach....it's refreshing to see a team that doesn't pander or bend to these millionaire athletes. I like the mature, professional team culture that's come out of it.

[angelbelow]

its probably phil right now, and hes got the medal to prove it.

[lebomb]

FUCK THAT!!!!! Phil is NOT a better coach than Pop. Especially after that asswhoopin he absorbed last night. What a joke!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Phil Jackson EXPOSED! lol!!11lollzzz!

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I also think that Ironmexican should change the sig.... those girls look no older that 14

[ballhog]

Pop is not a whiner like Phil.

[ShoogarBear]

Pop is not a whiner like Phil.

On that, even Laker Fan must agree.

[Extra Stout]

I disagree - Gasol (up until the finals) has played like a superstar. He's been undefendable for the most part in the playoffs. There's been nothing done by Phil to make that happen - Gasol hangs out by the rim and get's dunks and tip-ins. What magical strategy did Phil employ to make that happen? If you think for a second that Gasol hasn't been one of the best big men in the playoffs, you are suffering from denial. Fact is that Phil has had nothing to do with the gifts he's been given for players. Is that his offense that he's running? Are you going to tell me that he's come up with a masterplan on defense? Please tell me why and how Phil is such a great coach.
Absurd. Pau Gasol is the same player he has always been -- an All-Star-caliber forward. He is not a superstar. He has scored a lot in the Lakers' offense because he fits in like in a glove. The "magical strategy" Phil and his staff have employed is the triangle. Nothing has changed there. Gasol just is great in the triangle and has picked it up very quickly. Part of that is probably that he's fairly smart, and part of that is that his coaches have done a good job acclimating him.

And thanks again for explaining that Phil Jackson is not a general manager who acquires players. What does that have to do with being a coach again?

This is really simple:
Good coaches + good players = winning
Good coaches + bad players = losing
Bad coaches + good players = mediocrity

You will find cases here and there where good players carry a mediocre coach to a Finals berth. But nine championships? Ridiculous.

Jackson with these Lakers has done everything that can be asked of a coach to mold young talent and veterans together into a cohesive unit, and nurture a rebuilding team back into contention. (Don't pretend that this Lakers team was languishing before the Gasol trade. They were already good.) This is what critics used to say separated a coach like Larry Brown from PJ. Now he has answered those critics. And all you bitter little people can do is render some lame excuse about how Pau Gasol is the second coming of Shaquille O'Neal, and Derek Fisher is Oscar Robertson or something.

Even with all that, after you take it all into consideration, Pop may still be the better coach. But you bitter, hating homers add nothing to the discussion.

[Kermit]

Tim was drafted... with the #1 overall pick in the draft. Yeah, hell of a diamond in the rough Pop found there.

I can count the number of coaches who won championships without great players on one finger. Larry Brown. 2004 Pistons. I guess he's the only decent coach the league has ever seen.

Lenny Wilkins?

[Extra Stout]

Lenny Wilkins?
You're spending some time in the wayback machine there.

[Kermit]

True. That's the only one I could name off the top of my head.

[romad_20]

sghahrem (3 hours ago) Report Violation I can read what this guy has to say all day long. it really is one of the most interesting articles I have ever seen on ESPN.com period, I am surprised there arent any features on it on the Front Page, or at least the NBA front page.

Its funny to see average user's posts, and what they think is correct based on their small sample size predictions, and then compare it to someone who makes millions of dollars betting on these things, and has an entire personal database that he uses to predict outcomes. I told my father about the article, and told him that he made a claim about who was the best coach in the NBA. my father's response was "if he says anyone other than Gregg Popovich, hes a moron." (we are laker fans by the way) Then when he read it, he said "So I guess he DOES know what hes talking about."

About the Doc thing that conradrosenbaum says below me, its funny that you mention that, because I was thinking about it last night, as Doc was thoroughly teaching Phil Jackson what coaching was (wow, I never thought I would type THAT sentence in sincerity), but in all fairness Doc has not ever coached as well as he has in these Finals, and that includes the rest of the playoffs (but then again, I have only seen a handful of Celtic games this year, and only seen Doc Rivers games a few times prior to this year).

I also said a month ago that Doc Rivers coaching against Mike Brown was like a "Chess match between a brick and a rock."


From a laker fan on ESPN.COM :wow

[Reggie Miller]

My opinion on this is pretty well documented.

As a combat veteran (which I am), Pop is the only NBA coach that I have any respect for, at all. Phil Jackson is a manipulator and opportunist, as is Larry Brown, etc.

It's hard to explain. Pop reminds me of all of the good field grade officers I have met. You have to have that inner core of authority to command the respect of other men. Pop has it. Jackson, Van Gundy, Riley, etc. do not demamd/command respect. I don't mean that they are inferior at the other aspects of their job(s), but thet do not command respect in the sense that I mean. I do not believe that they are capable of leading me into a life or death struggle.

Pop is a great leader. Don't forget it. Spurs' fans have been damn lucky to have him. Yes, he has always had at least one superstar since he assumed control as coach. Call me crazy, but who cares...

[genomefreak13]

What has Gregg Popovich ever done without Tim Duncan?

Duncan was never in the league of a michael jordan or a Shaq with a kobe bryant.

What was Jackson doing when he was left with only Kobe in his purse?

Oh yeah nothing...Pop was winning championships..