Trade Exception Possibilities

[timvp]

Thanks to the Beno Udrih trade, the Spurs currently have a trade exception worth $1.847M that expires on Oct. 29th. This is an overlooked asset the Spurs have this summer that may help them bring in an additional piece to the puzzle.

The best way to use this trade exception is to combine it with draft picks or cash to obtain a player with moderate value. You could also use it to get a player with low value without having to add draft picks or cash if the other team is simply looking to save money or open a roster spot.

Here are some players the Spurs could potentially target:

Renaldo Balkman and Wilson Chandler, New York Knicks
With Donnie Walsh now in control of the Knicks, he may look to trade away some of the players with direct ties to Isiah Thomas. Balkman would be a fantastic option for the Spurs because he's a great rebounder who also gets blocks and steals at the small forward position. The problem would be the Spurs would have to likely give up a lot of assets. Offering the 26th pick and the 45th pick for Balkman might get Walsh's attention but probably won't be enough. Chandler doesn't have as much value but he's another athletic small forward who could fit on the Spurs. Chandler for the 45th and a future second would make sense if Walsh is just looking to clean house.

Daequan Cook, Miami Heat
Cook was the number one target last year for the Spurs in the draft. He showed pretty good promise last year as a rookie on the Heat. The Heat don't really have reason to trade him but perhaps they'd like someone in this draft more than Cook. They have a pick at the beginning and a pick in the middle. If there is someone around 26 they like, Cook would likely be who the Spurs ask for in return.

Sean Williams, New Jersey Nets
Williams is a weedhead with a lackadaisical attitude who also has a low basketball IQ. That said, he's a prolific shotblocker. The Spurs could definitely use a shotblocker who is quick enough to play next to Duncan. Williams fell out of favor late in the year last season and there is talk of the Nets taking another big in the draft this year, so perhaps Williams is the odd man out. Williams for 26 and money could work for both sides.

Shawne Williams, Indiana Pacers
Same name, same flaws. Williams has gotten in trouble a few times and the Pacers are looking to clean up their image. He's a big, long small forward who has an outside shooting touch. Still a bit of a project, he might be attainable for something like a pair of second rounders and cash.

Rodney Carney, Philadelphia 76ers
At this point, Carney is just a good athlete who can also shoot a little bit from the outside. He actually regressed a bit in his second year in the NBA. The Spurs may be intrigued by his raw potential and would give the Sixers two second rounders and cash.

Morris Almond, Utah Jazz
Almond is a natural scorer who averaged 26 points per game in the D-League last season -- including a 51 point outburst against the Austin Toros. The Jazz will likely target a shooting guard this summer in free agency or the draft and if they land one, they may think that there isn't enough room for both Almond and Ronnie Brewer. Almond for the 26th pick and cash may work for both teams.

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.

Sergio Rodriguez, Portland Trail Blazers
He's basically in the same boat with Belinelli. Rodriguez flashes talent but he's a turnover machine who doesn't seem capable of running a team. Perhaps the Spurs will look at him as a backup point guard option ... but I doubt it.

Quincy Douby, Sacramento Kings
He has been a bust for the Kings but the Spurs may like his ability to shoot the three and the Kings may want to give him away to simply open a roster spot.

Oleksiy Pecherov, Washington Wizards
A ChumpDumper favorite, I haven't seen Pecherov do much other than shoot flat-footed threes a la Sam Perkins. At seven-foot, he has the potential to spread the floor. At the very least, his resemblance to Stewie would be worth a few chuckles.


http://x20.xanga.com/77682a3a46c08172523261/z131057371.jpghttp://thefilter.blogs.com/thefilter/images/2007/05/13/stewie_evil.jpg

[Twisted_Dawg]

Nice piece of work, Timvp.

[Mr. Body]

IMO, the most likely are the first three, the Knicks guys and Cook. The question is whether the Spurs would give up their #26 for any of them and for Cook it seems they might.

Do you really think Balkman would take both a first and a second to get? He's a decent hustle player but seems awfully limited. WYSIWYG and he doesn't look to improve beyond what he is right now, which ain't a whole lot. Wilson Chandler looks to be much better.

An advantage to trading the pick for Cook if they could is they shorten the years they have to pay him as a tryout, versus a guy in this draft.

[montgod]

Sorry, but don't the Spurs have two trade exceptions? I thought they also received one from the Sonics with the Kurt Thomas deal? I could be wrong...

[Marcus Bryant]

I thought they had 3 cap exceptions from the Udrih, Scola, and Thomas trades.

[timvp]

Sorry, but don't the Spurs have two trade exceptions? I thought they also received one from the Sonics with the Kurt Thomas deal? I could be wrong...The Spurs have another trade exception from the famed Scola trade that is worth about $530K ... however that one is so small that I don't think they can use it. All the players above make more than that.

Let me check the Thomas trade . . .

[timvp]

Let me check the Thomas trade . . .Looks like they got an even smaller one from the Thomas trade. Less than $500K.

Since you can't combine trade exceptions and you can't use a trade exception in combination with a player, those will be tough to use. It'd basically have to be a player with a minimum salary.

[montgod]

Looks like they got an even smaller one from the Thomas trade. Less than $500K.

Since you can't combine trade exceptions and you can't use a trade exception in combination with a player, those will be tough to use. It'd basically have to be a player with a minimum salary.

yeah I thought the exception from the Thomas trade was actually higher then both exceptions mentioned but I guess not.

Oh well... back to the drawing board.

[tav1]

I started a thread like this earlier in the year, with some of the same names. Subsequent to that thread I spent a couple weeks in NY where I took in 2 Knick games. I arrived early for both games and had a chance to see the players work out.

Here's what I noted: Chandler is insanely athletic, with no true skill set. But he looked impressive in both games. He's the sort of player that will entice Mike D'Antoni.

Everyone here probably knows the pros and cons of Balkman's game but two observations remain with me. First, before the game he was working hard--with the rest of the Knicks nowhere to be found--with a shooting coach on his midrange game and corner threes. He was really pushing himself and looked better than I'd expect shooting the ball. Second, he plays respectable post defense. In one game, he held LaMarcus Aldridge in check. Ironically, I don't see him fitting with D'Atoni's style. I think the Knicks will definately prefer Chandler, but it would be great if they did. Balkman would fit right in with the Spurs.

As an aside, David Lee is an impressive player but he's something of a defensive blackhole. Nate McMillian called several plays just to exploit Lee's inability move his feet. His rebound numbers are a reflection of heart and energy, not good positioning.

[timvp]

Do you really think Balkman would take both a first and a second to get? He's a decent hustle player but seems awfully limited. WYSIWYG and he doesn't look to improve beyond what he is right now, which ain't a whole lot. Wilson Chandler looks to be much better.I think Balkman has really good potential. A small forward who can rebound and block shots better than any current Spurs center would be nice. He doesn't have a jumper yet but if the Spurs want an athlete who can run the break, rebound, block shots and rack up steals, he'd be a good choice. As a seventh or eighth man, he'd be a nice fit.

I'm not as high on Chandler but he's solid. He's another Isiah Thomas special so Walsh will likely listen to offers. Neither fits too well with D'Antoni's system because they can't shoot so that's even more reason the Knicks will likely be shopping both.

Problem is the Knicks will probably use Balkman and Chandler as sweeteners in a bigger trades.

[Mr. Body]

I like Balkman too. I was just saying the price you listed (first plus second) is likely more than would be charged.

[Blackjack]

Thanks to the Beno Udrih trade, the Spurs currently have a trade exception worth $1.847M that expires on Oct. 29th. This is an overlooked asset the Spurs have this summer that may help them bring in an additional piece to the puzzle.

The best way to use this trade exception is to combine it with draft picks or cash to obtain a player with moderate value. You could also use it to get a player with low value without having to add draft picks or cash if the other team is simply looking to save money or open a roster spot.

Here are some players the Spurs could potentially target:

Renaldo Balkman and Wilson Chandler, New York Knicks
With Donnie Walsh now in control of the Knicks, he may look to trade away some of the players with direct ties to Isiah Thomas. Balkman would be a fantastic option for the Spurs because he's a great rebounder who also gets blocks and steals at the small forward position. The problem would be the Spurs would have to likely give up a lot of assets. Offering the 26th pick and the 45th pick for Balkman might get Walsh's attention but probably won't be enough. Chandler doesn't have as much value but he's another athletic small forward who could fit on the Spurs. Chandler for the 45th and a future second would make sense if Walsh is just looking to clean house.

Daequan Cook, Miami Heat
Cook was the number one target last year for the Spurs in the draft. He showed pretty good promise last year as a rookie on the Heat. The Heat don't really have reason to trade him but perhaps they'd like someone in this draft more than Cook. They have a pick at the beginning and a pick in the middle. If there is someone around 26 they like, Cook would likely be who the Spurs ask for in return.

Sean Williams, New Jersey Nets
Williams is a weedhead with a lackadaisical attitude who also has a low basketball IQ. That said, he's a prolific shotblocker. The Spurs could definitely use a shotblocker who is quick enough to play next to Duncan. Williams fell out of favor late in the year last season and there is talk of the Nets taking another big in the draft this year, so perhaps Williams is the odd man out. Williams for 26 and money could work for both sides.

Shawne Williams, Indiana Pacers
Same name, same flaws. Williams has gotten in trouble a few times and the Pacers are looking to clean up their image. He's a big, long small forward who has an outside shooting touch. Still a bit of a project, he might be attainable for something like a pair of second rounders and cash.

Rodney Carney, Philadelphia 76ers
At this point, Carney is just a good athlete who can also shoot a little bit from the outside. He actually regressed a bit in his second year in the NBA. The Spurs may be intrigued by his raw potential and would give the Sixers two second rounders and cash.

Morris Almond, Utah Jazz
Almond is a natural scorer who averaged 26 points per game in the D-League last season -- including a 51 point outburst against the Austin Toros. The Jazz will likely target a shooting guard this summer in free agency or the draft and if they land one, they may think that there isn't enough room for both Almond and Ronnie Brewer. Almond for the 26th pick and cash may work for both teams.

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.

Sergio Rodriguez, Portland Trail Blazers
He's basically in the same boat with Belinelli. Rodriguez flashes talent but he's a turnover machine who doesn't seem capable of running a team. Perhaps the Spurs will look at him as a backup point guard option ... but I doubt it.

Quincy Douby, Sacramento Kings
He has been a bust for the Kings but the Spurs may like his ability to shoot the three and the Kings may want to give him away to simply open a roster spot.

Oleksiy Pecherov, Washington Wizards
A ChumpDumper favorite, I haven't seen Pecherov do much other than shoot flat-footed threes a la Sam Perkins. At seven-foot, he has the potential to spread the floor. At the very least, his resemblance to Stewie would be worth a few chuckles.


http://x20.xanga.com/77682a3a46c08172523261/z131057371.jpghttp://thefilter.blogs.com/thefilter/images/2007/05/13/stewie_evil.jpg

I could see something with the Knicks happening after how eager they were to lend out the company plane.

I think Mcguire would be a better option than Pecherov (as much as I love the Stewie resemblance), but anyone who's read any of my posts knows the chub I've had for him. :lol

As for Carney, how would you compare Giddens game to his?

I'd really like to get Sefolosha away from the Bulls, but the only way I see that happening is if there's someone they like on the board at 26. So if that should happen, what's a scenario that would land us Thabo.

Thanks in advance :toast

[Big P]

Belenili would be great, except for the fact that Nelson doesn't want Barnes or Pietrus back, for the fact that he wants more playing time for Marco.

[urunobili]

i think from all those options you brought the one that looks better for the Spurs would be Sean Williams... :tu

[silk]

Balkman is a limited player but he would do great , i think, in our system

But can we really get him ? i mean, there should be several teams willing to deal for him, do we really have our chances ?

If a first and a second is too short, could we sweeten the deal ? with what ?

If we somehow get a solid sg for the MLE, balkman would be a solid choice instead of a draft choice ,not so sure we can get more adequate prospects there

[tav1]

I doubt that Sean Williams is available. He played well for the first 2/3rds of the season. I think Thorn is hoping that he will become the defenesive big in their rotation with Krstic and whomever they sign/draft.

TimVP has said elsewhere that he doesn't believe Crittenton's available. I'm not so sure. I have a friend whose wife works (lower lever receptionist) for the Griz and the employees there are convinced that Memphis would like to drive the overall payroll down as much as possible to make the team more attractive to potential buyers. The team's future is so clouded many guys in this draft will not work out for Memphis and would prefer to slide than ending up with the team. With Conley and Lowry already in tow, they may look to dump Crittenton to save the meager 1.5 and pick up a draft pick (also making the team more attractive to potential buyers).

Shawne Williams came on a little at the end of last season. Two second rounders is too much for him, though. In all liklihood, he is a bust and the Pacers know it.

[Mr. Body]

Crittendon is a likely target for other teams, especially Portland, which has a coach who loves big point guards.

A first and a second for Balkman is way too much. He's hard-working but very limited. We should be able to pull someone with the 26 at least as good as he is, if not eventually much better.

The only guy I could see them trading the first rounder for straight up is Cook.

[Russ]

Please no Knicks.

The Spurs have never gotten anything of value from them, i.e., Charles Smith and Jackie Butler. It seems their players are always overvalued -- hard to imagine a "hidden gem" emerging from the bright lights of NY.

[Mr. Body]

Please no Knicks.

The Spurs have never gotten anything of value from them, i.e., Charles Smith and Jackie Butler. It seems their players are always overvalued -- hard to imagine a "hidden gem" emerging from the bright lights of NY.

They had Udoka in training camp before having to cut him for roster spaces - then Portland picked him up.

Does that count?

[temujin]

Not Belinelli.

He wants to play, and NOT garbage times, whether in the Bay area or elsewhere.

Spurs are too good to offer him more than occasional rotations. Also he can't play any serious D.

If he doesn't play, he's headed back to Italy, where there might be teams that could offer him more money now.

Look for another Spanoulis.

[MoSpur]

Last time we had a guy named Sean, it was pretty good. So Sean Williams seems like a good pick up to me.

[mountainballer]

Crittendon is a likely target for other teams, especially Portland, which has a coach who loves big point guards.

A first and a second for Balkman is way too much. He's hard-working but very limited. We should be able to pull someone with the 26 at least as good as he is, if not eventually much better.

The only guy I could see them trading the first rounder for straight up is Cook.

McMillan might turn Roy into the full time PG and then play Fernandez alongside him. so maybe Portland isn't that much interested in acquiring a PG like we all believe.
totally agree about Balkman. I can't understand the hype. he would struggle badly with the Spurs IMO.
totally agree on the Cook scenario. considering this draft is big heavy, there is a good chance that a big the Heat like falls to #26 and they are willing to deal Cook for that player.

[tav1]

Dequan Cook isn't very good.

Roy will only play point if they can't land one in a trade.

If the Blazers would deal Sergio for the trade exception only, he'd be worth the risk.

[silk]

Can we really get somebody "very good" for our trade exception ?

We have to pick someone with either good potential, or whose strengths would fit well in the system

[Russ]

Please no Knicks.

The Spurs have never gotten anything of value from them, i.e., Charles Smith and Jackie Butler. It seems their players are always overvalued -- hard to imagine a "hidden gem" emerging from the bright lights of NY.

And I forgot about Charlie Ward. :rolleyes

[tav1]

Can we really get somebody "very good" for our trade exception ?

We have to pick someone with either good potential, or whose strengths would fit well in the system

By "not very good" I meant that he'd have a difficult time cracking the rotation--but with Fin and Horry on the move, we should be thinking in terms of rotation quality players. May not be possible, but that should be the goal. Otherwise, it's probably isn't worth the salary or roster space.

Although, players like Almond and Cook would be Austin eligible and might be worth a 14th or 15th spot for that reason.

Someone like Balkman or Sergio could find a role in the rotation.

[PDXSpursFan]

We should give the trade exception(s) to a team willing to take on Bonner contract.

[Ocotillo]

We should give the trade exception(s) to a team willing to take on Bonner contract.

Someone more knowledgable could address this but I don't think you can package an exception with a player (Bonner). The exception has to be sent on it's own or with picks.

Regarding ex-Knicks on the roster, didn't Nazr come from the Knicks?

[tav1]

Someone more knowledgable could address this but I don't think you can package an exception with a player (Bonner). The exception has to be sent on it's own or with picks.

Regarding ex-Knicks on the roster, didn't Nazr come from the Knicks?

More knowledge isn't needed. The trade exception can't be combined with another player, as you write.

Yes, Nazr came from the Knicks and was a helpful in winning a championship.

[Russ]

Although, players like Almond and Cook would be Austin eligible and might be worth a 14th or 15th spot for that reason.

Almond and Belinelli seem like perfect guys to go after, but neither will be cheap. Both can probably step in and score right from the get go.

But both were 1st round picks just last year and both were gone by the time the Spurs picked. Their value is less than it was just 12 months ago -- great time to strike (but possibly unrealistic to actually pull it off).

[2centsworth]

Thanks to the Beno Udrih trade, the Spurs currently have a trade exception worth $1.847M that expires on Oct. 29th. This is an overlooked asset the Spurs have this summer that may help them bring in an additional piece to the puzzle.

The best way to use this trade exception is to combine it with draft picks or cash to obtain a player with moderate value. You could also use it to get a player with low value without having to add draft picks or cash if the other team is simply looking to save money or open a roster spot.

Here are some players the Spurs could potentially target:

Renaldo Balkman and Wilson Chandler, New York Knicks
With Donnie Walsh now in control of the Knicks, he may look to trade away some of the players with direct ties to Isiah Thomas. Balkman would be a fantastic option for the Spurs because he's a great rebounder who also gets blocks and steals at the small forward position. The problem would be the Spurs would have to likely give up a lot of assets. Offering the 26th pick and the 45th pick for Balkman might get Walsh's attention but probably won't be enough. Chandler doesn't have as much value but he's another athletic small forward who could fit on the Spurs. Chandler for the 45th and a future second would make sense if Walsh is just looking to clean house.

Daequan Cook, Miami Heat
Cook was the number one target last year for the Spurs in the draft. He showed pretty good promise last year as a rookie on the Heat. The Heat don't really have reason to trade him but perhaps they'd like someone in this draft more than Cook. They have a pick at the beginning and a pick in the middle. If there is someone around 26 they like, Cook would likely be who the Spurs ask for in return.

Sean Williams, New Jersey Nets
Williams is a weedhead with a lackadaisical attitude who also has a low basketball IQ. That said, he's a prolific shotblocker. The Spurs could definitely use a shotblocker who is quick enough to play next to Duncan. Williams fell out of favor late in the year last season and there is talk of the Nets taking another big in the draft this year, so perhaps Williams is the odd man out. Williams for 26 and money could work for both sides.

Shawne Williams, Indiana Pacers
Same name, same flaws. Williams has gotten in trouble a few times and the Pacers are looking to clean up their image. He's a big, long small forward who has an outside shooting touch. Still a bit of a project, he might be attainable for something like a pair of second rounders and cash.

Rodney Carney, Philadelphia 76ers
At this point, Carney is just a good athlete who can also shoot a little bit from the outside. He actually regressed a bit in his second year in the NBA. The Spurs may be intrigued by his raw potential and would give the Sixers two second rounders and cash.

Morris Almond, Utah Jazz
Almond is a natural scorer who averaged 26 points per game in the D-League last season -- including a 51 point outburst against the Austin Toros. The Jazz will likely target a shooting guard this summer in free agency or the draft and if they land one, they may think that there isn't enough room for both Almond and Ronnie Brewer. Almond for the 26th pick and cash may work for both teams.

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.

Sergio Rodriguez, Portland Trail Blazers
He's basically in the same boat with Belinelli. Rodriguez flashes talent but he's a turnover machine who doesn't seem capable of running a team. Perhaps the Spurs will look at him as a backup point guard option ... but I doubt it.

Quincy Douby, Sacramento Kings
He has been a bust for the Kings but the Spurs may like his ability to shoot the three and the Kings may want to give him away to simply open a roster spot.

Oleksiy Pecherov, Washington Wizards
A ChumpDumper favorite, I haven't seen Pecherov do much other than shoot flat-footed threes a la Sam Perkins. At seven-foot, he has the potential to spread the floor. At the very least, his resemblance to Stewie would be worth a few chuckles.



http://x20.xanga.com/77682a3a46c08172523261/z131057371.jpghttp://thefilter.blogs.com/thefilter/images/2007/05/13/stewie_evil.jpg


Great Job, but essentially you're telling us we're screwed.

[tav1]

Almond and Bellineli seem like perfect guys to go after, but neither will be cheap. Both can probably step in and score right from the get go.

But both were 1st round picks just last year and both were gone by the time the Spurs picked. Their value is less than it was just 12 months ago -- great time to strike (but possibly unrealistic to actually pull it off).

I'm more pessimistic about both these guys. In the event that we landed them with the TE, I suspect they'd spend the season in Austin. Even if they could score, the other aspects of their game, especially defense, seem inadequate. I'd rather Chandler or Balkman--Chandler to the Toros or Balkman as a high energy swing 8th man.

[Ocotillo]

I wanted Mo Almond to be drafted last year but the Jazz snagged him earlier. Speaking of the Jazz, there is a team that has done a good job quietly of picking up talent, their FO deserves some props for the signings, draft picks and trades they have pulled off especially for a small market team.

[Marcus Bryant]

Out of those I like:

Cook
Chandler
Balkman

Cook fits the profile of what you would like out of a PG in the Spurs' system. Big, physical, and can score. Playmaking abilities aren't as important. You could play him with Tony against smaller backcourts.

Chandler and Balkman would be good young role players for the Spurs. If you think that Udoka can see a hefty portion of his minutes at the two either of them makes sense.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

#45+Udrih exception should get us Balkman.

[Ocotillo]

You guys know better than I but would Balkman have the potential to be the Bowen Jr.?

[tav1]

Out of those I like:

Cook
Chandler
Balkman

Cook fits the profile of what you would like out of a PG in the Spurs' system. Big, physical, and can score. Playmaking abilities aren't as important. You could play him with Tony against smaller backcourts.

Chandler and Balkman would be good young role players for the Spurs. If you think that Udoka can see a hefty portion of his minutes at the two either of them makes sense.

Re: Udoka's minutes, I'd rather see him pick up time as a small ball 4. He provides some spacing and better D than Bonner. I'm still for a more creative scorer at the 2, and I don't want Udoka to cut into that players minutes.

[tav1]

You guys know better than I but would Balkman have the potential to be the Bowen Jr.?

Maybe, but not likely. Balkman is a hard worker and plays with heart, which is key to D. He's a guy that many didn't believe belonged in the league. When Zeke drafted him he said he saw a lot of Dennis Rodman--in the on the floor sense--in him. I think he's a guy that could get a steal, a block, 5 rebounds, a hustle save, and some clean up scores in 15 minutes a game. He's also quick and long and would match up well in spot time against players like David West and Boris Diaw. It'd be a steal if we could get him for the trade exception.

[silk]

Mail it in to R.C ^^

[pad300]

#45+Udrih exception should get us Balkman.


Either 1)NY's management still sucks, 2)your wrong or 3)I'm crazy...

He played 24% of available minutes last year...He rebounds strongly for an SF, doesn't get plays called for him (ie. lives off scraps offensively) and plays decent D. According to David Berri's wins produced methodology, he was NY's second best player (after D. Lee) with WP/48 of .213

I'd certainly make that trade if I was SA. I would also happily offer Bonner + #45 for him...(although this would require further Salary cap shenanigans to get by the trade rules). I would also do something like Splitters Rights + #45 + TE for him.

I'm not sure I'd offer #26. I'd wait until draft day and see what was on the board before doing so...

[Harry Callahan]

Either 1)NY's management still sucks, 2)your wrong or 3)I'm crazy...

I'd certainly make that trade if I was SA. I would also happily offer Bonner + #45 for him...(although this would require further Salary cap shenanigans to get by the trade rules). I would also do something like Splitters Rights + #45 + TE for him.

I'm not sure I'd offer #26. I'd wait until draft day and see what was on the board before doing so...


Splitters rights should not be traded. That is silly. I would hope the FO learned their lesson about trading a player's rights when they are at their lowest value already.

Splitter plays in SA in the future or he stays over in Spain. Period.

[DPG21920]

Ramon Sessions, the pg from the bucks, might be available for the Kurt Thomas trade exception. With how well he played at the end of the year, he is definitely worth a gamble.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Ramon Sessions, the pg from the bucks, might be available for the Kurt Thomas trade exception. With how well he played at the end of the year, he is definitely worth a gamble.

The Kurt Thomas exception is <500K. We're not getting anyone with that.

[DPG21920]

I think Sessions makes a little over 450,000 a year, he is a rookie that just came up from the D-League.

[manufor3]

I'd like Belinelli or Cook or Sean Williams or Carney

[ss1986v2]

sessions will make about 711K next season. and the bucks like him, so why are they giving him away for nothing?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think Sessions makes a little over 450,000 a year, he is a rookie that just came up from the D-League.

Yea, but even a D-League standout should be able to reel in at least 800,000 a year.

[mrspurs]

i guess since we cant go back in the past. this question doesnt really matter. but ill ask anyways.......say we dont have that 1.87 million exception on beno, cos we kept him and never had to waste games on helping mighty mouse learn the system, when tony got hurt.........would we have won homecourt advantage and still be playing?

[Spurs Brazil]

I like Shawne Williams. He's good and young. Can improve in the Spurs system

[gospursgojas]

None of those guys seem worth a damn

[Bruno]

I think the best use of the trade exception isn't to get a so-so project but is to give another team some salary cap relief.

The team that strike me as a trade partner is Washington. They will face the luxury tax by resigning Arenas, Jamison and maybe Roger Mason.
Pecherov and Mcguire have been quite crappy in their rookie year. Spurs can take both with their TE and save some money to wizards. Wizards will need to have some incentives to Spurs like a first round pick swap.

A fantasy offseason :
Spurs trade #26+TE+cash for #18+McGuire+Pecherov
Two months after this trade, Spurs trade Bonner+McGuire+Vaughn to Seattle for Earl Watson. Seattle do this trade to save some money.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

^:tu

[silk]

Good take bruno, i just hope the spurs won't do that,( but somehow get balkman) ^^

[cdcast]

Watson makes 6.2 mil next season and 6.6 mil the year after. Too much for a backup PG.

[urunobili]

I think the best use of the trade exception isn't to get a so-so project but is to give another team some salary cap relief.

The team that strike me as a trade partner is Washington. They will face the luxury tax by resigning Arenas, Jamison and maybe Roger Mason.
Pecherov and Mcguire have been quite crappy in their rookie year. Spurs can take both with their TE and save some money to wizards. Wizards will need to have some incentives to Spurs like a first round pick swap.

A fantasy offseason :
Spurs trade #26+TE+cash for #18+McGuire+Pecherov
Two months after this trade, Spurs trade Bonner+McGuire+Vaughn to Seattle for Earl Watson. Seattle do this trade to save some money.

damn Bruno I'd hire you as my GM if i had a Basketball team! :tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Spurs trade #26+TE+cash for #18+McGuire+Pecherov.

Do you really think that the Wizards would trade down 8 slots and get rid of 2 of their younger players with potential just to get out of their luxury tax problem?

[2centsworth]

None of those guys seem worth a damn

amen

[Bruno]

Do you really think that the Wizards would trade down 8 slots and get rid of 2 of their younger players with potential just to get out of their luxury tax problem?

If they consider Pecherov and McGuire as "players with potential", they won't do that kind of trade.
However, I'm not sure at all that they are considered like that. They haven't had a good rookie season and Wizards can consider them as dead weight like Spurs with Butler last summer.
Their combined salary is $2.2M for next year and I can see Wizards trying to unload them with their luxury tax troubles.
Trading down 8 slots is quite a big prize to dump them but you had to consider that the #26 pick will cost them less than the #18 and that Spurs could sweet a little the trade with cash and/or second round pick.

[Blackjack]

I think the best use of the trade exception isn't to get a so-so project but is to give another team some salary cap relief.

The team that strike me as a trade partner is Washington. They will face the luxury tax by resigning Arenas, Jamison and maybe Roger Mason.
Pecherov and Mcguire have been quite crappy in their rookie year. Spurs can take both with their TE and save some money to wizards. Wizards will need to have some incentives to Spurs like a first round pick swap.

A fantasy offseason :
Spurs trade #26+TE+cash for #18+McGuire+Pecherov
Two months after this trade, Spurs trade Bonner+McGuire+Vaughn to Seattle for Earl Watson. Seattle do this trade to save some money.

I'm not sure how feasible your proposal is, but it's one of the best ones I've heard.

As far as trading for Watson though, I wouldn't be in favor of that. Watson might be a good defender, but his shooting and BBIQ leave a hell of alot to be desired.

I wouldn't have any problem putting Pecherov in a deal, but Mcguire is a different story. McGuire is the perfect diamond in the rough small-ball 4 we've been looking for. His athleticism, defense, shot-blocking, and rebounding have all proven to translate at the N.B.A level when he's gotten the time on the court. The problem is the minutes haven't been there consistently enough with the log-jam they've had at the 3/4. So to say that McGuire or even Pecherov had crappy years isn't really all that fair.

If the Spurs could somehow end up with the wing they wanted at 18, McGuire, and find a way to get Chalmers..... Well, it aint gonna happen but... If it did??? :wow I think I'd need to go change my pants. :lol

[Holt's Cat]

What other teams are facing Luxury Tax Hell? Denver &...?

[Big P]

I hope we use the TE instead of letting it expire..I think it is important for us to use every means necessary to improve this team

The best player IMO who makes less than $1.874 mil is Jarrett Jack & I know we have had interest in him in the past(we dangled Beno..they declined..go figure), but I think that Portland may be looking to move him now & the TE along with a pick would probably get it done, so that would solve the backup PG problem...we address the SF spot with the MLE & draft picks & offer Adonal Foyle the LLE for backup big.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If they consider Pecherov and McGuire as "players with potential", they won't do that kind of trade.
However, I'm not sure at all that they are considered like that. They haven't had a good rookie season and Wizards can consider them as dead weight like Spurs with Butler last summer.
Their combined salary is $2.2M for next year and I can see Wizards trying to unload them with their luxury tax troubles.
Trading down 8 slots is quite a big prize to dump them but you had to consider that the #26 pick will cost them less than the #18 and that Spurs could sweet a little the trade with cash and/or second round pick.

Thanks. :tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What other teams are facing Luxury Tax Hell? Denver &...?

I think that's it.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I think that's it.


Knicks?

[mountainballer]

What other teams are facing Luxury Tax Hell? Denver &...?

Mavs, Cavs, Celtics, Nuggets, Knicks, Lakers

borderliners: Rockets, Pacers, Suns, Blazers

[Gtown]

Since the Rockets owe us 1 they should let us get Mike Harris for a 2nd rounder

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I have an interesting idea. Say Dekembe wants to play one more year? Would a sign and trade be out of the question? I know we want to focus on the younger players, but having him wouldn't be all that bad. He might not play unless we have hurt bigs, but you never know when you will need an experanced vet who can block shots. Plus he is 58 so he fills Robert's spot great for title of "That oldest guy on the Spurs that played with Wilt and West."

As long as he's the 11th or 12th man, I'd be all for it. :tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

A Spurs frontcourt rotation of:
Duncan/Oberto/Mutombo
Mahinmi/Thomas/Bonner

I likes. :tu

[remingtonbo2001]

A Spurs frontcourt rotation of:
Duncan/Oberto/Mutombo
Mahinmi/Thomas/Bonner

I likes. :tu

Make it happen.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i was over on the bulls board

damn it we shouldve filed the papers earlier when we were going to deal with the bulls

fukn taryn thomas is 6'11 now he grew what? 2 inches? nice.....

[Biggems]

what are the chances of us being able to get McGuire and Almond?

[Bartleby]

what are the chances of us being able to get McGuire and Almond?

Neither one was able to do much with limited minutes in the NBA, but Almond had some huge D-league games.

That, plus the fact that Utah is probably less likely to make a trade that may help the Spurs (since they have a good chance of meeting in the playoffs) suggests to me that the Spurs may have a shot at McGuire, but probably a much smaller chance of picking up Almond. The scenario Bruno came up with seems plausible.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see Utah giving up Almond for anything.

McGuire could be had, I guess.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Thats what I am saying, keep him around as a back up in case a big gets hurt. Say Fabio gets an ankle sprain, and Tim gets in foul trouble. Its Super Dekembe to the rescuse!

Spurs need to get younger this summer, not prehistoric.

If we are at the point where Dikembe needs to play significant minutes for us, may as well just tank and get a high pick next year.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pecherov was hurt most of the year, not sure how Washington really views him.

They like McGuire, but if they re-sign everyone they are expected to, there won't be minutes for him, so perhaps he could be had.

I could also see us using an exception + picks + cash to move up in the draft to get someone we like (Washington at 18, Cleveland at 19, Denver at 20 all seem to fit the bill of capped out teams who might be looking for some cap relief).

[Mr. Body]

If we wanted a Mutombo-type, I'd go for Mourning. Houston I think wants to hang onto Sex Mutombo.

[Biggems]

so if we did the scenario that Bruno stated....who do we go after at 18......I am thinking Brandon Rush. However, if Donte Green is somehow still on the board, I can see the Spurs possibly going for Green. Then at 57 we draft Brumbaugh.

That would give us 3 young wing players all at 6'9".....we would definitely cause matchup problems for other teams with those 3 players.

[timvp]

I think the best use of the trade exception isn't to get a so-so project but is to give another team some salary cap relief.

The team that strike me as a trade partner is Washington. They will face the luxury tax by resigning Arenas, Jamison and maybe Roger Mason.
Pecherov and Mcguire have been quite crappy in their rookie year. Spurs can take both with their TE and save some money to wizards. Wizards will need to have some incentives to Spurs like a first round pick swap.

Spurs trade #26+TE+cash for #18+McGuire+PecherovThat's a pretty good idea -- however it depends on what both teams think of McGuire and Pecherov. The Wizards would need to want to dump them and the Spurs would actually have to want each player. The Wizards dumping that pair isn't too unlikely, although Pecherov is said to have some potential. McGuire is pretty redundant for their team.

But considering the Spurs have only four likely open roster spots, filling two with that pair and one with the draft pick, they'd have only one more roster spot after that trade. With two more draft picks, the MLE and the LLE, I'm not sure if the Spurs can waste three roster spots on one trade. The Spurs could opt to just waive McGuire and Pecherov but then they'd basically be paying $3M to move up eight spots ... which is a lot considering the going rate for a mid to late first round pick is $3M.

But yeah, that could definitely be a trade that is thought about. Also remember last year the Spurs had a deal to get Washington's first round pick (it was overall 16th pick) and they were going to use it to draft Daequan Cook. However that deal fell apart when Nick Young fell to 16. With the team needing to re-sign both Arenas and Jamison, I could see them wanting to lower payroll and the Spurs can help them do that.

Bruno, I do have a question regarding the trade exception. Do the players who are coming back have to fit within the exact amount of the trade exception or is there that 25% + $100K flexibility? If there is flexibility, the Spurs trade exception could actually be used to take back closer to $2.4M ... which would open up a whole new world of possibilities.

:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

I believe a non-simultaneous trade can at most be for the amount of the exception +$100,000.

[timvp]

I believe a non-simultaneous trade can at most be for the amount of the exception +$100,000.Yeah, you're right. Found it in the CBA.

One player who I think is available who would be perfect as a backup point guard is Jarrett Jack. The Blazers don't really want or need him anymore, especially with Rudy Fernandez coming on board. He has a salary of $2M ... which is just a little bit more than the TE the Spurs have.

Spurs have tried to trade for Jack before. You could play him behind Parker and he's also strong enough to play some minutes at shooting guard. I don't see an easy way to get him though without using the TE.

[Bruno]

however it depends on what both teams think of McGuire and Pecherov.

Agree especially on how Wizards value them. This fictional trade is quite similar to "The Trade"
McGuire + Pecherov = Butler
Trading up from 26th to 18th = The Nameless One.
TE = Spanoulis

Wizards are in Luxury tax trouble like Spurs last year. Words are that they aren't really interested in their 18th pick like Spurs weren't really interested in The Nameless One. If they consider McGuire and Pecherov as low as Spurs considered Butler..



The Spurs could opt to just waive McGuire and Pecherov but then they'd basically be paying $3M to move up eight spots ... which is a lot considering the going rate for a mid to late first round pick is $3M.

Pecherov and McGuire salaries are $2.2M.
26th + $2.2M in cash for 26th is a quite fair trade.
AFAIK, only very late first round picks have been traded only for cash.
Players for a TE is more interesting for both teams than cash because it lowers Wizards payroll and Spurs could like the players they get or trade them later.

[Holt's Cat]

Pecherov and McGuire salaries are $2.2M.
26th + $2.2M in cash for 26th is a quite fair trade.
AFAIK, only very late first round picks have been traded only for cash.
Players for a TE is more interesting for both teams than cash because it lowers Wizards payroll and Spurs could like the players they get or trade them later.

So Wizards receive $2.2 mil in payroll reduction, plus up to an additional $2.2 mil in luxury tax liability reduction, and perhaps another $2 mil in cash. Also, swapping 1st round picks would be worth about $330K in payroll reduction and the same in lux tax liability reduction. All told such a trade could be worth roughly $7 mil to the Wizards for the 2008-09 season.

[Holt's Cat]

The reason I think the Spurs would go for something like this is that they wouldn't have much of a long-term commitment to McGuire and Pecherov. In fact it could end by the end of next season.

If the Spurs got a swingman prospect who was ready for the rotation at #18, they could target someone with their MLE, say Najera, Barnes, or Posey. If they went after Najera, for example, then they could deal Bonner down the line. I think they could pull off a S&T for Barnes using Bonner plus some kind of sweetener.

If they were in a gambling mood, maybe they get the Wiz's #18 and send it plus Bonner to someone for a young point guard they like (Cook or Jack). Then use the MLE to go after a JR Smith. Use the LLE for a shooting bigman like Pat Garrity.

[Brutalis]

Balkman has zero potential. I watched the guy at South Carolina.

It's been a total shock to me people value him at all. Even cock fans have told me the guy has the basketball IQ of a 12 year old. Come on.

[Mr. Body]

Balkman has zero potential. I watched the guy at South Carolina.

It's been a total shock to me people value him at all. Even cock fans have told me the guy has the basketball IQ of a 12 year old. Come on.

So... Laker fans?

[timvp]

Pecherov and McGuire salaries are $2.2M.Can the Spurs take back $2.2M in salary with their trade exception? I thought the one they had topped out at about $1.9M.


26th + $2.2M in cash for 26th is a quite fair trade.True but I thought you had actual cash as part of the deal.

[spurscenter]

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.


GET THIS

GUY


NOW

BETTER THAN SASHA who all you are raving about

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Belinelli sucks.

[Marcus Bryant]

Can the Spurs take back $2.2M in salary with their trade exception? I thought the one they had topped out at about $1.9M.


They might be able to use the Beno trade exception to acquire Pecherov and then use either the Scola or Thomas trade exceptions to acquire McGuire.

[tav1]

Yeah, you're right. Found it in the CBA.

One player who I think is available who would be perfect as a backup point guard is Jarrett Jack. The Blazers don't really want or need him anymore, especially with Rudy Fernandez coming on board. He has a salary of $2M ... which is just a little bit more than the TE the Spurs have.

Spurs have tried to trade for Jack before. You could play him behind Parker and he's also strong enough to play some minutes at shooting guard. I don't see an easy way to get him though without using the TE.

Yes, Jack would be ideal. A home run behind Parker, but the Blazers are trying to use him as key piece in a larger package---last year he was a major piece in their attempt to get Devin Harris. I don't see many assets that could be moved to put Jack in a Spurs uniform.

[Marcus Bryant]

If McGuide is signed to a minimum player contract, I don't believe the Spurs would have to use any of their trade exceptions to trade for him.

[Marcus Bryant]

So perhaps what would happen is that the Spurs trade their #26 for Pecherov and the #18 using the Beno trade exception and then trade a conditional second rounder for McGuire using the minimum player exception.

[Marcus Bryant]

Actually, I don't believe it would need to be broken out that way. If McGuire is on a minimum contract then basically he would be ignored.

[Marcus Bryant]

McGuire's salary for 2008-09 (team option) should be $442,114.

[tav1]

Bruno's idea isn't bad, but I'm not use if it's worth two dead weight roster spots. Rather than trading for those two, I'd rather the cap flexibility to mine the D-League for talent and commit a player to Austin, much like Ian Mahinmi.

I'm comfortable with what the Spurs can get at #26. If they move in the draft, I'd prefer they take a long shot and attempt to simply buy a higher pick and/or pick up another selection at the top of the 2nd. I'm curious to see who pulls out tomorrow, but right now this is actually a fairly deep draft class. If Walker or Batum pull their names from the board, then maybe trading up is more of a necessity.

Assuming they can't move Bonner and don't buy out Vaughn, I'd like to see 2 FAs and 2 rookies in their 4 open roster spots. In other words, something like Bill Walker, Mike Taylor, Kelenna Azubuike and Adonal Foyle. Let Barry play behind Parker.

Moving Bonner or buying out Vaughn would give us better flexibility, though.

[exstatic]

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.


GET THIS

GUY


NOW

BETTER THAN SASHA who all you are raving about

Pop's not going to be all that jazzed about a player who refuses to go to the d-league. Where do you think the Spurs would want him to go?

[timvp]

They might be able to use the Beno trade exception to acquire Pecherov and then use either the Scola or Thomas trade exceptions to acquire McGuire.


If McGuide is signed to a minimum player contract, I don't believe the Spurs would have to use any of their trade exceptions to trade for him.

Good points, I think you're right. Although McGuire has a team option, perhaps part of it is guaranteed ... which is why the Wizards in theory would want to trade him instead of just not picking up the option.

[Spur-Addict]

Pop's not going to be all that jazzed about a player who refuses to go to the d-league. Where do you think the Spurs would want him to go?

Bruce Bowen's house for the summer. Get him a how to guide on defense, then, to Tony's for dribble penetration 101.

[Bruno]

Can the Spurs take back $2.2M in salary with their trade exception? I thought the one they had topped out at about $1.9M.


$2.2M is their 2008-2009 salaries. For 2007-2008, their salaries is around $1.8M. So if you do the trade before July, you can do Pecherov + McGuire for the Beno TE.
McGuire seems to have signed a three years contract with two year guaranteed. Unlike most of the players paid the min, you need a TE to get him because wizards used the MLE to offer him a 3 years contract.

[ss1986v2]

$2.2M is their 2008-2009 salaries. For 2007-2008, their salaries is around $1.8M. So if you do the trade before July, you can do Pecherov + McGuire for the Beno TE.
McGuire seems to have signed a three years contract with two year guaranteed. Unlike most of the players paid the min, you need a TE to get him because wizards used the MLE to offer him a 3 years contract.
this is a question ive been too lazy to look up on my own for a while now: when figuring any draft day trade, is it the '07-'08 salaries that come into play, or are we already dealing in '08-'09 salaries? id assumed that it was the prior salaries, and your post seems to back that up. do you happen to know where in the cba this bit of info would be located?

[timvp]

$2.2M is their 2008-2009 salaries. For 2007-2008, their salaries is around $1.8M. So if you do the trade before July, you can do Pecherov + McGuire for the Beno TE.Are you sure that last year's salaries would be used? If that were the case, couldn't the Spurs trade Michael Finley on draft day using last year's salary?

:smokin

[Bruno]

Are you sure that last year's salaries would be used? If that were the case, couldn't the Spurs trade Michael Finley on draft day using last year's salary?

:smokin

Yes, I'm sure of that.
You can't trade Finley because you aren't allowed to trade expiring contracts after the deadline. You also aren't allowed to trade players who could become expiring contracts with a player, team or early termination option.

In the Rasho trade, Eric Williams had a player option for the next year and he had to pick it before the trade to make it legal.

[timvp]

Yes, I'm sure of that.
You can't trade Finley because you aren't allowed to trade expiring contracts after the deadline. You also aren't allowed to trade players who could become expiring contracts with a player, team or early termination option.

In the Rasho trade, Eric Williams had a player option for the next year and he had to pick it before the trade to make it legal.Niiice. That trade exception is more valuable than I thought ... at least during the draft.

Thanks again :tu

So that means Jarrett Jack for the 26th pick is possible :hungry:

[silk]

Jarett jack would be great, but there's two questions ; are there better offers than ours on the table for the blazers ?

Will they trade in their own conference ?

[tav1]

Niiice. That trade exception is more valuable than I thought ... at least during the draft.

Thanks again :tu

So that means Jarrett Jack for the 26th pick is possible :hungry:

The Blazers are trying to shed picks, not pick them up. If they did that, it would be to draft and stash a player like Batum. But right now they already have too many players and not enough roster spots.

[ATXSPUR]

we're screwed!!!!!

[Marcus Bryant]

As the night progresses, Grunfeld may also elect to trade either or both picks for selections in future drafts.

Amidst all of the uncertainty, it is very likely that the Wizards aren't going to land an instant-impact player at the 18th spot. Grunfeld has repeatedly stated his intentions of retaining free agents Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison and the roster is deep with veterans. Plus the team had three rookies last season in Pecherov, Nick Young and Dominic McGuire and has a 21-year old in forward Andray Blatche, so the roster doesn't have much room for more developmental cases.

WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/24/AR2008062401662_2.html)

[Bruno]

Regarding Williams, Bird said: "He's on thin ice. I've had enough, really, so if we can look and do something and get something back, we'll probably do it. But if we don't he's on very thin ice here."

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8547059

And Pacers are in luxury tax trouble. A trade exception is the perfect return for Shawne Williams.

[tav1]

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8547059

And Pacers are in luxury tax trouble. A trade exception is the perfect return for Shawne Williams.

Thanks for this, Bruno. You're right. The question is where does Williams rank against the wings we might get at #26. I know I prefer Rush and Lee, and probably Batum and Walker. Hmmm.

Also, with the Blazers inexplicably adding another 1st, their liklihood to lose a player for a TE is growing. There is no question that Sergio is in play, but maybe Jack isn't as far out of reach as I previously thought.

[timvp]

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8547059

And Pacers are in luxury tax trouble. A trade exception is the perfect return for Shawne Williams.I'd like that trade. Williams is a 6-foot-9 small forward who has a lot of skill. He's a bit of a knucklehead but at 22 years old, he'd likely be a first round draft pick if available in this draft.

Williams for the trade exception and a second rounder is probably fair to both teams.

[T Park]

Shawne Williams has Stephen Jackson written all over him.

What could it hurt to bring him over and let him sit behind the bench?

[Bruno]

Thanks for this, Bruno. You're right. The question is where does Williams rank against the wings we might get at #26. I know I prefer Rush and Lee, and probably Batum and Walker. Hmmm.


If Spurs don't draft Batum or Donté Greene, Shawne Williams is a heck of plan B.

He is young and talented. His off-the-court issues could be solved in a new city within a strong organization.
If Pacers are ready to trade him for a TE and cash/second round pick(s), he is one of the best way to use the TE.

[tav1]

If Spurs don't draft Batum or Donté Greene, Shawne Williams is a heck of plan B.

He is young and talented. His off-the-court issues could be solved in a new city within a strong organization.
If Pacers are ready to trade him for a TE and cash/second round pick(s), he is one of the best way to use the TE.

I agree, and I'd rather have him then, say, Green. And if he is available for the TE, the Spurs might role the dice on a player like Walker or go away from immediate need and draft a big like Hibbert, if there.

But again, because of his attitude and still unproven game, I'd prefer a player like Lee. But it's good to know he is in the mix. I wouldn't complain if we turned Beno Udrih into Shawne Williams. I'm happy.

[TDMVPDPOY]

hey andrew bogut opted out of his final year on his rookie contract,

his lookin for 80m......

should we sign and trade for him?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Hell to the no.

[AFBlue]

Bump...

In light of the Spurs looking to add young swingmen and apparently needing to add one or two more pieces without the luxury of $$, I figured it would be a good time to bring this topic back up. Quoted below is the original post by timvp is a list of potential acquisitions with the Beno Trade Exception.


Thanks to the Beno Udrih trade, the Spurs currently have a trade exception worth $1.847M that expires on Oct. 29th. This is an overlooked asset the Spurs have this summer that may help them bring in an additional piece to the puzzle.

The best way to use this trade exception is to combine it with draft picks or cash to obtain a player with moderate value. You could also use it to get a player with low value without having to add draft picks or cash if the other team is simply looking to save money or open a roster spot.

Here are some players the Spurs could potentially target:

Renaldo Balkman and Wilson Chandler, New York Knicks
With Donnie Walsh now in control of the Knicks, he may look to trade away some of the players with direct ties to Isiah Thomas. Balkman would be a fantastic option for the Spurs because he's a great rebounder who also gets blocks and steals at the small forward position. The problem would be the Spurs would have to likely give up a lot of assets. Offering the 26th pick and the 45th pick for Balkman might get Walsh's attention but probably won't be enough. Chandler doesn't have as much value but he's another athletic small forward who could fit on the Spurs. Chandler for the 45th and a future second would make sense if Walsh is just looking to clean house.

Daequan Cook, Miami Heat
Cook was the number one target last year for the Spurs in the draft. He showed pretty good promise last year as a rookie on the Heat. The Heat don't really have reason to trade him but perhaps they'd like someone in this draft more than Cook. They have a pick at the beginning and a pick in the middle. If there is someone around 26 they like, Cook would likely be who the Spurs ask for in return.

Sean Williams, New Jersey Nets
Williams is a weedhead with a lackadaisical attitude who also has a low basketball IQ. That said, he's a prolific shotblocker. The Spurs could definitely use a shotblocker who is quick enough to play next to Duncan. Williams fell out of favor late in the year last season and there is talk of the Nets taking another big in the draft this year, so perhaps Williams is the odd man out. Williams for 26 and money could work for both sides.

Shawne Williams, Indiana Pacers
Same name, same flaws. Williams has gotten in trouble a few times and the Pacers are looking to clean up their image. He's a big, long small forward who has an outside shooting touch. Still a bit of a project, he might be attainable for something like a pair of second rounders and cash.

Rodney Carney, Philadelphia 76ers
At this point, Carney is just a good athlete who can also shoot a little bit from the outside. He actually regressed a bit in his second year in the NBA. The Spurs may be intrigued by his raw potential and would give the Sixers two second rounders and cash.

Morris Almond, Utah Jazz
Almond is a natural scorer who averaged 26 points per game in the D-League last season -- including a 51 point outburst against the Austin Toros. The Jazz will likely target a shooting guard this summer in free agency or the draft and if they land one, they may think that there isn't enough room for both Almond and Ronnie Brewer. Almond for the 26th pick and cash may work for both teams.

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.

Sergio Rodriguez, Portland Trail Blazers
He's basically in the same boat with Belinelli. Rodriguez flashes talent but he's a turnover machine who doesn't seem capable of running a team. Perhaps the Spurs will look at him as a backup point guard option ... but I doubt it.

Quincy Douby, Sacramento Kings
He has been a bust for the Kings but the Spurs may like his ability to shoot the three and the Kings may want to give him away to simply open a roster spot.

Oleksiy Pecherov, Washington Wizards
A ChumpDumper favorite, I haven't seen Pecherov do much other than shoot flat-footed threes a la Sam Perkins. At seven-foot, he has the potential to spread the floor.


I would personally love to get Wilson Chandler in the fold and know that he was a pick of the former Thomas regime....great athlete, can play multiple positions, and can be sent to the d-league for seasoning. I like Gist and all, but this kid would be an upgrade.

[spurman20]

I dont like alot of guys on the list for diff reasons but I like Pecherov...he would be a nice pc of the bench......chandler is also nice.....but I like david lee, or as a pipe dream ....Krystic form Jersey who they are looking to get rid of....the guy avg 16 a game a yr ago and is only 25

[Big P]

You can take Rodriguez & Belinelli off that list..no way we get those guys for anything we have to offer.

[AFBlue]

You can take Rodriguez & Belinelli off that list..no way we get those guys for anything we have to offer.

I don't think the Spurs really need Rodriguez or Belinelli at this point.

I think they'd take Dequan Cook, just because they had him so highly rated as a draft prospect....but he doesn't really fill a need position.

Given their draft and FA signing, I think they would likely target a SF. Of the ones available, I think I'd most like to get Chandler. He's a guy known for his defense and seems to have a better head on his shoulders than Williams.

[Big P]

I don't think the Spurs really need Rodriguez or Belinelli at this point.

I think they'd take Dequan Cook, just because they had him so highly rated as a draft prospect....but he doesn't really fill a need position.

Given their draft and FA signing, I think they would likely target a SF. Of the ones available, I think I'd most like to get Chandler. He's a guy known for his defense and seems to have a better head on his shoulders than Williams.

Doesn't matter that we dont need them, the thread asks about TE possibilities & I just said that we couldn't get those guys with anything we have..and I disagree about Belenilli, he can score, he didn't get much of a chance for consitent minutes, but he can score & that is the ONLY thing we need now.

[angelbelow]

how about one of the nets bigmen? they certainly have a few.

[coopdogg3]

I dont like alot of guys on the list for diff reasons but I like Pecherov...he would be a nice pc of the bench......chandler is also nice.....but I like david lee, or as a pipe dream ....Krystic form Jersey who they are looking to get rid of....the guy avg 16 a game a yr ago and is only 25

Well, you shouldn't like a lot of guys on the list. We can get a $2 million contract with our Beno exception. There's a reason these guys make so little.

I would like another big on the team, there should be some minutes there. Spurs also need to get on the ball and resign KT already.

[Blackjack]

I know Chandler and Mcguire were thought of as similar players going into the '07 draft, and I remember Chandler being projected as the better pro by most... But that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on Chandler.

I've been advocating for McGuire for awhile now but if Chandler is comparable/better? The Spurs need to see if the Knicks are willing to talk.

I remember D. Collins joking about the possibility of a Spurs-Knicks trade after the whole plane fiasco, but maybe there's some truth to it? Would the Knicks like to shed a little payroll with our exception or be interested in a guy like Bonner in D'antoni's offense? It's worth the Spurs to at least look into it.

I really believe we need to have some size at the wing that can rebound the position, while giving us some defensive versatility. While my first choice was McGuire, I realize he's probably not on the Spurs' radar. Gist could possibly fill that role (although a different player than McGuire) but he's a rookie who's not even guaranteed a roster spot. So maybe Chandler is the best option available.

With the Knicks drafting Gallinari (who's going to need min.) and already having Jeffries, Balkman, and Chandler? (Seems a bit over-kill) Chandler could be expendable.

[tav1]

Chandler, Balkman and Pecherov would all work fine. Might need to sweeten the pot with a 2nd, but it's pretty clear that the Knicks and Wiz might not want these players due to roster space and cap reasons. They're definately available to the right bidder.

Balkman could play right away, if need be. Probably wouldn't, but could. It'd be nice to have his Bird Rights. Chandler and Pecherov would be sent to Austin, no doubt.

I'm not sure if it would work under the cap, but I'd take any of these three at the expense of two second round draft picks, instead of a combination of TE and pick. Other than the Golden State pick, these three represent better value than what we could get in the mid to late second next draft.

[tav1]

I know Chandler and Mcguire were thought of as similar players going into the '07 draft, and I remember Chandler being projected as the better pro by most... But that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on Chandler.

I've been advocating for McGuire for awhile now but if Chandler is comparable/better? The Spurs need to see if the Knicks are willing to talk.

I remember D. Collins joking about the possibility of a Spurs-Knicks trade after the whole plane fiasco, but maybe there's some truth to it? Would the Knicks like to shed a little payroll with our exception or be interested in a guy like Bonner in D'antoni's offense? It's worth the Spurs to at least look into it.

I really believe we need to have some size at the wing that can rebound the position, while giving us some defensive versatility. While my first choice was McGuire, I realize he's probably not on the Spurs' radar. Gist could possibly fill that role (although a different player than McGuire) but he's a rookie who's not even guaranteed a roster spot. So maybe Chandler is the best option available.

With the Knicks drafting Gallinari (who's going to need min.) and already having Jeffries, Balkman, and Chandler? (Seems a bit over-kill) Chandler could be expendable.


Good thought. But I'd bet the Knicks would't do this unless we took back unfavorable payroll and contract length. And if we're not getting Lee or Crawford, then I'd rather aim small and go after Chandler or Balkman with the trade exception.

[TDMVPDPOY]

hey can we trade the TE for picks??

[Mr. Body]

Knicks are one of those teams with no need to shed payroll at all.

[tav1]

In the first Knicks summer league game, Chandler looks decent and the Knicks are experimenting with Balkman at center. Balkman at center is a sign that the Knicks are not sure if they have a place for him in the offense (Gallinari, Richardson, Jeffries, Chandler) which could be good for us. From the moment D'Antoni was hired anyone with a brain knew that Curry was out in NY, and I think this sort of experimentation are further confirmation of this inevitable fate. But will Balkman stick or will NY move him too?

[spurman20]

In the first Knicks summer league game, Chandler looks decent and the Knicks are experimenting with Balkman at center. Balkman at center is a sign that the Knicks are not sure if they have a place for him in the offense (Gallinari, Richardson, Jeffries, Chandler) which could be good for us. From the moment D'Antoni was hired anyone with a brain knew that Curry was out in NY, and I think this sort of experimentation are further confirmation of this inevitable fate. But will Balkman stick or will NY move him too?

I can see him sticking. If he does its because they are forced to keep him. He is a poor mans David Lee and measured much shorter than Lee. I wouldnt mind getting Richardson from them, or Lee, but they can keep everyone else.

[tav1]

Pecherov got a DNP in SL game 1? Anyone know why?

[Spurs Brazil]

Shawne Williams, Indiana Pacers
Same name, same flaws. Williams has gotten in trouble a few times and the Pacers are looking to clean up their image. He's a big, long small forward who has an outside shooting touch. Still a bit of a project, he might be attainable for something like a pair of second rounders and cash.

Pacers' Williams In Trouble Yet Again

Jul 19, 2008 8:04 PM EST
Pacers forward Shawne Williams was skating on thin ice after a pair of legal transgressions last season, but he may have fallen through after another one of his friends got in hot water recently, according to The Indianapolis Star.

Friday afternoon, Carmel police arrested Darrell Smith Jr., 21, a passenger in the car Williams was driving, after discovering Smith had a small amount of marijuana.

"Shawne Williams was not charged with anything," Horner said. "He was given a window tint and seat belt violation. Mr. Smith’s marijuana charge is a misdemeanor."

The car Williams was driving was not his.

The team issued this statement: "While Shawne Williams was not involved in any arrest or any criminal wrongdoing, we are extremely upset and hugely disappointed he once again has put himself in a position that jeopardizes Shawne’s future as a member of the Indiana Pacers. I plan to meet with Shawne as soon as possible to discuss this further."
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53667/20080719/pacers_williams_in_trouble_yet_again/

[urunobili]

Pacers' Williams In Trouble Yet Again

Jul 19, 2008 8:04 PM EST
Pacers forward Shawne Williams was skating on thin ice after a pair of legal transgressions last season, but he may have fallen through after another one of his friends got in hot water recently, according to The Indianapolis Star.

Friday afternoon, Carmel police arrested Darrell Smith Jr., 21, a passenger in the car Williams was driving, after discovering Smith had a small amount of marijuana.

"Shawne Williams was not charged with anything," Horner said. "He was given a window tint and seat belt violation. Mr. Smith’s marijuana charge is a misdemeanor."

The car Williams was driving was not his.

The team issued this statement: "While Shawne Williams was not involved in any arrest or any criminal wrongdoing, we are extremely upset and hugely disappointed he once again has put himself in a position that jeopardizes Shawne’s future as a member of the Indiana Pacers. I plan to meet with Shawne as soon as possible to discuss this further."
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53667/20080719/pacers_williams_in_trouble_yet_again/

Spurs Brazil Cop!
:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:c op:cop:cop:

[Spurs Brazil]

Spurs Brazil Cop!
:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:cop:c op:cop:cop:

:lol

I still want the Spurs trade for this guy

[tav1]

I'd still greatly prefer Chandler, Balkman, Pecherov (who I'd guess is available), or Nachbar.

I'd prefer Tolliver to Bonner, but it's no big thing. He's under contract and lives in the doghouse, but I can't see someone trading for him. Pecherov, Gist and Mahinmi play some D-League, if they're all on the team.

I'm kinda liking the idea of Nachbar as a realistic get and a guy who brings some offense and spacing off the bench. He's not a great player by any stretch, but he's servicable until 2010 behind Udoka in the depth chart.

[wijayas]

hey andrew bogut opted out of his final year on his rookie contract,

his lookin for 80m......

should we sign and trade for him?

Andrew bogut looking for max contract? Who will get swindled this time, now that Isiah is gone??? :lol :lol :lol

[Gino2882]

Andrew bogut looking for max contract? Who will get swindled this time, now that Isiah is gone??? :lol :lol :lol

Im pretty sure Milwaukee already gave Bogut the max.

[DPG21920]

wasn't it like 73 million?

[ss1986v2]

wasn't it like 73 million?
5yrs/60 mil base, with ~13 mil in incentives.

[DPG21920]

I still think our best bet is to try and use our trade exception to try and get a big from NJ.

[ss1986v2]

I still think our best bet is to try and use our trade exception to try and get a big from NJ.
that leaves boone, williams, and anderson as possible options (krystic, yi, and lopez all make too much and happen to have too much value).

you can probably scratch williams: they spent a 1st rounder last year on him, they seem to like him, and hes played pretty well. they just spent a 1st rounder on anderson, so hes probably out. so that leaves boone.

i like boone. the positive is that the nets have a bit of a roster crunch, and dont have minutes for everyone. but they arent in tax trouble, so i dont think they are looking to give him away. plus hes played pretty good (8 & 7 last year, put up 10 & 10 in january). so you are going to have to offer value. we dont have a 1st next year, and we cant offer our 2010 1st either. so that leaves player rights, cash, and 2nd rounders. and i dont think any combination of those are going to entice the nets.

[Spurs Brazil]

Pacers' Williams On 'Thin Ice' Following Car Incident

Jul 20, 2008 6:44 PM EST
Pacers president Larry Bird is reportedly upset at the recent incident involving Shawne Williams, and says that the forward's future with the organization may be in jeopardy, the Associated Press is reporting.

While Williams was not arrested, a passenger in the vehicle he was driving was for marijuana possession on Friday.

Bird said Saturday he planned to meet with Williams to discuss the latest incident.

"While Shawne Williams was not involved in any arrest or any criminal wrongdoing, we are extremely upset and hugely disappointed he once again has put himself in a position that jeopardizes Shawne's future as a member of the Indiana Pacers," Bird said in a statement released by the team.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53677/20080720/pacers_williams_on_thin_ice_following_car_incident/

[nil.ball]

Looks like not only did Portland robbed Indiana during draft night, it seem to have passed on the proud tradition of jailblazers to the pacers. :wow

[timvp]

A player on the original list that is even more available is Morris Almond. The Jazz matched CJ Miles offersheet, which pretty much ends any chance of Almond cracking the lineup in the near future. On top of that, scouts are calling him a one-dimensional ballhog after the RMR.

Almond for one or two future second rounders might be a possibility. He might be a one-dimensional ballhog ... but the Spurs could use someone with his ability to score in the pipeline.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Rack it!

[Spurtacus]

Do we have to use our trade exception this year?

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, we could use a ballhog who can score when we go through the inevitable scoring droughts, though it's sad way to look at it. A player like that on the cheap could be given a chance to improve, and if not, then move on with little loss of investment.

[exstatic]

Do we have to use our trade exception this year?

Yes. It has a shelf life of one year after the Beno trade. I don't know when that is, but its soon.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yes. It has a shelf life of one year after the Beno trade. I don't know when that is, but its soon.

We traded Udrih to the Timberwolves on October 29th.

[exstatic]

We traded Udrih to the Timberwolves on October 29th.

So, that would be the deadline then, roughly three months. Three cheers for procrastination. :lol

[manufor3]

A player on the original list that is even more available is Morris Almond. The Jazz matched CJ Miles offersheet, which pretty much ends any chance of Almond cracking the lineup in the near future. On top of that, scouts are calling him a one-dimensional ballhog after the RMR.

Almond for one or two future second rounders might be a possibility. He might be a one-dimensional ballhog ... but the Spurs could use someone with his ability to score in the pipeline.

he'd be a good not great replacement for barry

[Spurtacus]

We traded Udrih to the Timberwolves on October 29th.

Certainly need to use it. Worth a gamble.

[ChumpDumper]

A player on the original list that is even more available is Morris Almond. The Jazz matched CJ Miles offersheet, which pretty much ends any chance of Almond cracking the lineup in the near future. On top of that, scouts are calling him a one-dimensional ballhog after the RMR.

Almond for one or two future second rounders might be a possibility. He might be a one-dimensional ballhog ... but the Spurs could use someone with his ability to score in the pipeline.That's a good idea if the Spurs give up on Hairston. I would like to get another scorer on the team. It doesn't look like any with experience are available in free agency, so the Spurs might have to roll the dice again if they can't work out a trade.

Or just bring Finley back....

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

How do you guys feel about Shannon Brown?

[DROB4EVER]

I think hes a spurs type player, not bad as a bench guy

[Bartleby]

A player on the original list that is even more available is Morris Almond. The Jazz matched CJ Miles offersheet, which pretty much ends any chance of Almond cracking the lineup in the near future. On top of that, scouts are calling him a one-dimensional ballhog after the RMR.

Almond for one or two future second rounders might be a possibility. He might be a one-dimensional ballhog ... but the Spurs could use someone with his ability to score in the pipeline.

I would be thrilled if the Spurs could pry Almond from the Jazz. I was really hoping he would fall to the Spurs during the draft last year. Helluva shooter.

If the Spurs are looking for somebody to come off the bench and score in bunches, Almond would be a great fit.

[exstatic]

Raise your hand if you think the Jazz are interested in helping us. Ever.

[duncan228]

Raise your hand if you think the Jazz are interested in helping us. Ever.

There's plenty of love between us and the Jazz. :lol

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/trouble/malonekick.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/trouble/maloneelbow.jpg

[DPG21920]

Sean Williams from the Nets will probably be available.

[urunobili]

Sean Williams from the Nets will probably be available.

i'd be very happy to get him.. bu Gist may not feel good with that...

[DPG21920]

i'd be very happy to get him.. bu Gist may not feel good with that...

Well you can still develop Gist in the D-League, but when it comes to winning now, you have to go with the guy that has some NBA experience. I have heard NJ is making him available and they could use a trade exception because they do not need any incoming players, but I just do not know if that would be enough.

[DROB4EVER]

Sean Williams from the Nets will probably be available.

If he can be had we need to get him. He would give us a great young defensive Center who can block shots and is a tuff guy inside. Him and Ian would be a nice set of biulding blocks.

[Bruno]

Balkman was available for a TE but Denver will get him.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/nba/blog/2008/07/knicks_discussing_balkman_to_d.html

I'm not a fan of him but I wonder if Spurs were interested in him.

[pad300]

Balkman was available for a TE but Denver will get him.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/nba/blog/2008/07/knicks_discussing_balkman_to_d.html

I'm not a fan of him but I wonder if Spurs were interested in him.

I hope RC's on the phone right now, trying to hijack this. Balkman for a TE is a steal. Balkman is a good young player - his rookie season showed that much.

[I. Hustle]

If you put Gist in the D-League you will turn it into the Super NBA and players will leave the NBA to join it. Next thing you know they will be leaving Europe to play in the D-league and Bill Gates (who just retired) will buy some teams.

[Ocotillo]

I predict the TE will expire unused.

[tav1]

I hope RC's on the phone right now, trying to hijack this. Balkman for a TE is a steal. Balkman is a good young player - his rookie season showed that much.

Balkman's offense is limited and he's not a prototypical fit for SA--lacks a jumpshot. However, as a third swing (really, he's an energy 3-4) he'd be a steal for the TE.

[DROB4EVER]

No more players who cant shoot, we had enough of that last season. Balkman couldnt hit a shot in warmups. Another overhyped player drafted by Ike.

[urunobili]

damn get Sean Williams please!!!!

[Bruno]

Nuggets got Balkman and $575K in cash for a 2010 second round pick.
If Spurs really wanted Balkman, they likely could have had him.

I doubt Spurs will use their TE. With it, you can mainly get "so-so" prospect and Spurs still have 4 prospects with Gist, Hill, Tolliver and Mahinmi who have shown some good things during SL.

The only way I see Spurs using the TE is if a purely financial trade like the Beno trade with Minny last year.

[The Truth #6]

Perhaps they're holding it to sweeten a potential Bonner trade down the road, if need be?

[coopdogg3]

Nuggets got Balkman and $575K in cash for a 2010 second round pick.
If Spurs really wanted Balkman, they likely could have had him.

I doubt Spurs will use their TE. With it, you can mainly get "so-so" prospect and Spurs still have 4 prospects with Gist, Hill, Tolliver and Mahinmi who have shown some good things during SL.

The only way I see Spurs using the TE is if a purely financial trade like the Beno trade with Minny last year.

Nuggets also gave up Green and Bobby Jones. We certainly don't need Green, but would Bobby Jones be a good fit? I know he's another young wing in need of development, but he would come pretty cheap.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3508429

DENVER -- The Denver Nuggets have acquired forward Renaldo Balkman from the New York Knicks in exchange for guard Taurean Green, forward Bobby Jones and a second-round draft pick in 2010.

The Nuggets also get cash in the deal, announced Monday by Mark Warkentien, Denver's vice president of basketball operations.

The Knicks are expected to waive Green and Jones at a savings of about $2 million. Both players have non-guaranteed contracts.

The 6-foot-8 Balkman averaged 3.4 points and 3.3 rebounds in 65 games for the Knicks last season. He has averaged 4.2 points and 3.8 rebounds in two seasons with the Knicks, shooting .499 from the field.

Green averaged 1.1 points in nine appearances with Denver last season. Jones averaged 3.4 points and 1.5 rebounds in two stints with the Nuggets during the 2007-08 season.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[timvp]

Damn, that's a steal for Balkman. I know he's injured and rumors are he isn't the best chemistry guy but I think the Spurs will regret not getting in on the deal. Balkman for nothing? Uh, yes please.

[pad300]

Damn, that's a steal for Balkman. I know he's injured and rumors are he isn't the best chemistry guy but I think the Spurs will regret not getting in on the deal. Balkman for nothing? Uh, yes please.

Yeah, the FO should have chased that one. He's essentially what Gist might turn out to be, except he's more comfortable with the small forward role vs. the PF role, and he's shown that he can adapt to the NBA environment (on and off the court - he's had no significant issues that I have heard of, ie. arrests, trouble at nightclubs, etc.). He's an energy guy, a rebounder and defender. He doesn't have a jumpshot, like someone above observed, but Gist doesn't really have one yet either. It is simply not guaranteed that Gist can transition to being a SF in the NBA... Balkman has already made that transition.

Having both of them would have given us an ability to put some really long, quick, defensive lineups on the floor, as well an option at SF that would give us much stronger rebounding.

The only upside is that the other guy that D'antoni reportedly doens't think works in his offense might be available equally cheap - anyone for David Lee for a trade exception...

[angelbelow]

we still have options, i think the FO is just waiting for the this offseason to develop a little longer before deciding.

[Bruno]

Balkman quite sucks. He can't hit a jump shot to save his life making it impossible to play SF with Spurs. He could have been only helpful as small ball PF but I rather see Gist, who is way bigger than Balkman, playing that role.

Balkman get a lot of hype because he has been drafted by Thomas but when you remove the hustle, there are few things remaining. THe same thign si true for Lee.

[exstatic]

Raise your hand if you think D'Antoni will help us. Ever.

[MannyIsGod]

Raise your hand if you think D'Antoni will help us. Ever.

LOL good call.

[timvp]

Balkman quite sucks. He can't hit a jump shot to save his life making it impossible to play SF with Spurs. He could have been only helpful as small ball PF but I rather see Gist, who is way bigger than Balkman, playing that role.

Balkman get a lot of hype because he has been drafted by Thomas but when you remove the hustle, there are few things remaining. THe same thign si true for Lee.

:td

Lee is pretty damn good. Balkman isn't as good but you can't "remove" the best aspect of his game and then say he sucks. That'd be like saying take away Reggie Miller's shooting and he sucks. Or take away Manu Ginobili's craftiness and he sucks. Or take away Tony Parker's fearlessness and he sucks. Balkman is a hustle player and that's it ... but he has been a dominant hustle player at times.

Last year he had a bad year overall plus he has injury and :hat allegations ... but I think this trade will go down as a steal for Denver. We'll see.

[timvp]

Raise your hand if you think D'Antoni will help us. Ever.


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07gE67c4d72fS/340x.jpg

http://www.umich.edu/~ac213/student_projects05/ls/ginobili.jpg

:smokin

[tav1]

Balkman quite sucks. He can't hit a jump shot to save his life making it impossible to play SF with Spurs. He could have been only helpful as small ball PF but I rather see Gist, who is way bigger than Balkman, playing that role.

Balkman get a lot of hype because he has been drafted by Thomas but when you remove the hustle, there are few things remaining. THe same thign si true for Lee.

Hmmm. I'm not sure if I can agree with you on this one. Balkman for nothing is an obvious trade--and I'm not convinced he won't develop into more of a player. I see Gist as having a higher ceiling, playing a different position and projecting as something more than merely a hustle player. Balkman will likely remain a hustle guy, but we could do much, much worse for our #3 swing.

Lee is not as good as he is billed, but he's not bad either. I've seen him play up close, and his defense is sub par. But again, who wouldn't take 10 and 10 with no plays called?

[tav1]

:td

Lee is pretty damn good. Balkman isn't as good but you can't "remove" the best aspect of his game and then say he sucks. That'd be like saying take away Reggie Miller's shooting and he sucks. Or take away Manu Ginobili's craftiness and he sucks. Or take away Tony Parker's fearlessness and he sucks. Balkman is a hustle player and that's it ... but he has been a dominant hustle player at times.

Last year he had a bad year overall plus he has injury and :hat allegations ... but I think this trade will go down as a steal for Denver. We'll see.

What he said.:tu

[tav1]

Looking at team rosters, it looks as if a handful of 2nd draft picks might not make their teams for roster space reasons. Of these, DeVon Hardin, Richard Hendrix, Bill Walker, Joey Dorsey and CDR are possibilities. Their respective teams have time to tweak rosters to make room, but the Spurs are probably waiting to see where the dust settles between these player's training camps and their own before filling the last roster spot. I'd like to see them with at least one open roster spot heading into training camp, if not 2.

In the same sense, roster space/tax penalties might force Sergio Rodriguez, Pecherov and Chandler onto the trading block.

[ChumpDumper]

Is Pecherov injured?

He didn't play in Vegas at all.

[exstatic]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07gE67c4d72fS/340x.jpg

http://www.umich.edu/~ac213/student_projects05/ls/ginobili.jpg

:smokin

Check the verb tense. Good finds, but one of them was while he was a Spurs employee, and the other was prideful coaching, and not intentional help. He and the Knicks are never going to send SA a player that they think might help, or that SA expresses an interest in.

Personally, I think Balkman is a deer.

[spurscenter]

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.


GET THIS GUY BEFORE HIS STOCK RISES

he is a stud in the making.

[Bruno]

:td

Lee is pretty damn good. Balkman isn't as good but you can't "remove" the best aspect of his game and then say he sucks. That'd be like saying take away Reggie Miller's shooting and he sucks. Or take away Manu Ginobili's craftiness and he sucks. Or take away Tony Parker's fearlessness and he sucks. Balkman is a hustle player and that's it ... but he has been a dominant hustle player at times.

:rolleyes
So Parker, Ginobili and Miller are as uni-dimensional than Balkman ?
That almost as stupid as when you said that Scola should be considered for the HOF.

I didn't take away his hustle. I say that outside his hustling, he hasn't something else to bring. Balkman is a hustle player but he really lacks of other skills and it's not enough to make him a good player.
It's fun to watch a hustle/energy guy but when it doesn't mean that this player is a good one.

I watch Knicks a lot this past couple of year and Balkman isn't a good player. His offensive game is a disaster and he isn't a dominant defender.
Lee is better but he is way overrated. He can't shoot nor create his offense and plays weak defense.

[timvp]

That almost as stupid as when you said that Scola should be considered for the HOF.Reading comprehension much? Go back and read the thread. I didn't say Scola should be considered for the HOF. I said that the basketball HOF is so lame that someone as undeserving as Scola has a shot to make it into the HOF. And yeah, one way or another Scola's name will appear in the HOF one day.

Speaking of Scola and "stupid", you were one of the few who thought it was a great trade. How is it working out now? Still think it's a great trade? You haven't been praising much these days . . .


:rolleyes
So Parker, Ginobili and Miller are as uni-dimensional than Balkman ?

I didn't take away his hustle. I say that outside his hustling, he hasn't something else to bring. Balkman is a hustle player but he really lacks of other skills and it's not enough to make him a good player.

Where to even start . . .

First of all, yeah Reggie Miller was a one dimensional player. What else did Miller bring to the table other than shooting? Thanks for answering.

Second of all, "hustle" is too broad to be classified as a dimension. Shooting is a dimension. Rebounding is a dimension. Passing is a dimension. Hustle is an all-around trait that is closer to craftiness and fearlessness.

Balman's hustle results in him being a good rebounding, good shot blocker, good at getting steals and an adequate defender. His rookie numbers look like that of a good center prospect ... which is pretty damn impressive for a small forward.


I watch Knicks a lot this past couple of year and Balkman isn't a good player. His offensive game is a disaster and he isn't a dominant defender.How about this. I'll take Renaldo Balkman. You take your crush Marcus Williams of the Clippers. Whichever player is better over a period of time you decide wins the bet. Six months title bet on the line. Deal?

I know you won't take it because you know timvp doesn't lose bets but he might as well offer it.

:smokin


Lee is better but he is way overrated. He can't shoot nor create his offense and plays weak defense.

:rolleyes

Lee averaged a double-double in less than 30 minutes on an abortion of a Knicks team. He's not a good defender yet but then again, no one on the Knicks was too impressive defensively. I'd take that "problem" on the Spurs any day of the week.

And you are really going to bash Lee for not being able to create his own offense? :rollin

What 6-foot-9, 240 pound power forwards can create their own shots? There are a few but those players are usually All-Stars. For some reason you have long been anti-David Lee ... I think it dates back to me saying the Spurs should have taken Lee instead of Mahinmi and you saying Mahinmi was going to be better than Lee. Good luck with that. Seriously. I hope you are right.

Hopefully Mahinmi turns out to be a stud ... and most important of all, he better be able to create his own shot. God forbid a bigman not be able to create his own shot. Mahinmi better get those rebounds go 70 feet and finish at the rim. Mix in some three-point shooting ability and stellar defense and then Bruno won't say he sucks. Oh and hopefully he does all that without hustling because if he hustles to accomplish all that, that'd make him one-dimensional.

[exstatic]

Marco Belinelli, Golden State Warriors
Belinelli was a bust as a rookie and to top it off, he refused to go to D-League. He can shoot and score but other than that, he does nothing on the basketball court. I don't think the Spurs would be too interested, then again he's a foreign prospect so you never know.


GET THIS GUY BEFORE HIS STOCK RISES

he is a stud in the making.

I can't see Pop Being too jazzed to get a guy who refused to go to the d-league. Pretty disrespectful to your team to do that.

[timvp]

Check the verb tense. Good finds, but one of them was while he was a Spurs employee, and the other was prideful coaching, and not intentional help. He and the Knicks are never going to send SA a player that they think might help, or that SA expresses an interest in.I may be wrong but I don't think D'Antoni has any hate for the Spurs now that he's away from the Suns. During summer league action, they showed Pop and D'Antoni talking in the stands. Pop also went to bat for D'Antoni after he got fired. Even during the heat of the playoff series, I don't remember Pop and D'Antoni ever showing any hate.

And seriously, whatever dislike he has for the Spurs is probably negated by the fact that he would like nothing better than the Suns to crash and burn without him. If that takes giving the Suns arch enemy a slight assist, I think that'd be fine with D'Antoni.

But I guess we'll see how it plays out. I have a feeling this might actually work out in the Spurs' favor as the Knicks clean house over the next couple years. An enemy of your number one enemy could be a friend in this case.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

I may be a Nuggets fan but i take alot from what timvp usually says :lol Balkman was brought in to help replace Eddie. He will bring the same thing off the bench except for the 3pt shooting that Eddie suddenly developed last season.

Balkman and $575,000 for essentially a 2nd rd pick? Any team would be crazy not to do that deal.

Out of curiosity, how much can you buy a 2nd pick for?

There is no way Balkman and Birdman come close to replacing Najera and Camby but they cost a total of less than $2mil for this season in comparison with $13mil for the other two. For a a 1st rd exit team with a big luxury tax, it was a no brainer to let this guys go and replace them as cheaply as possible.

[Bruno]

Scola has a shot to make it into the HOF.

And that's stupid.
Even with a solid NBA career, Scola has no shot to be an HOF.



Speaking of Scola and "stupid", you were one of the few who thought it was a great trade.

No, I wasn't. Check your facts.
I've said from day one that I've siad that I didn't like the Scola trade but I considered him as a quite meaningless one.
So far, I've been right on that.



First of all, yeah Reggie Miller was a one dimensional player. What else did Miller bring to the table other than shooting? Thanks for answering.

Defense.




Second of all, "hustle" is too broad to be classified as a dimension. Shooting is a dimension. Rebounding is a dimension. Passing is a dimension. Hustle is an all-around trait that is closer to craftiness and fearlessness.

So Balkman is a zero dimension player.



Balman's hustle results in him being a good rebounding, good shot blocker, good at getting steals and an adequate defender. His rookie numbers look like that of a good center prospect ... which is pretty damn impressive for a small forward.

He also has nice hairs and his name is cool...
You can find him a lot of qualities but getting some steals or blocking some shots isn't the bulk of the basketball.
Balkman's offense is atrocious, his defense is good but not great and he has the body of a swingman without having perimeters skills.
He isn't a good basketball player.



How about this. I'll take Renaldo Balkman. You take your crush Marcus Williams of the Clippers. Whichever player is better over a period of time you decide wins the bet. Six months title bet on the line. Deal?
:smokin

:lol
The Marcus Williams card.
Let's do it crush against crush.
You take your crushes Theron Smith and Jackie Butler, I take my crush Marcus Williams ?
The period of time I decide is last year.

Oh and I think that Marcus Williams will have a better career than Renaldo Balkman. You will have to wait a little to see it because Williams is a couple of years younger than Balkman. Give him some time.



He's not a good defender yet but then again, no one on the Knicks was too impressive defensively.

So because Knicks are a poor defending team, his inability to play defense should be forgiven ?
:downspin:



What 6-foot-9, 240 pound power forwards can create their own shots?

So because he is undersized, his inability to create his shot should be forgiven ?
:downspin:



I think it dates back to me saying the Spurs should have taken Lee instead of Mahinmi and you saying Mahinmi was going to be better than Lee.

:lmao
It's laughable and really egocentric to think that my evaluation about Lee is based on yours.



Hopefully Mahinmi turns out to be a stud ... and most important of all, he better be able to create his own shot.

The most important will be his ability to defend.

I quite like how you avoid the "poor defender" part that is by far his biggest flaw. It was a poorly executed smokescreen.

[timvp]

And that's stupid.
Even with a solid NBA career, Scola has no shot to be an HOF.Want to make a title bet that Scola's name won't be in the HOF?


No, I wasn't. Check your facts.
I've said from day one that I've siad that I didn't like the Scola trade but I considered him as a quite meaningless one.
So far, I've been right on that.Yeah Scola on the Spurs would be meaningless. Good call :rolleyes


Defense. Reggie Miller played defense? :lmao


So Balkman is a zero dimension player.Good one.


He also has nice hairs and his name is cool...He does? It is?


:lol
The Marcus Williams card.Yeah the player you said it was a "disaster" and "tragedy" that the Spurs let him go.



Let's do it crush against crush.
You take your crushes Theron Smith and Jackie Butler, I take my crush Marcus Williams ?
The period of time I decide is last year.

1ytCEuuW2_A

I recommended Smith as a Long Three possibility for the minimum. It was a disappointment that Butler stopped caring about basketball after his first big contract. But in neither case did I say it was a disaster and a tragedy that the Spurs let him go. In other words, I didn't go Marcus Williams Reaction when the Spurs went elsewhere. Butler being involved in the worst trade of the Pop Era was just a coincidence ... even though you still kinda liked that trade.

(Well the Spurs never went elsewhere in terms of a Long Three but that's a thought for another thread.)


Oh and I think that Marcus Williams will have a better career than Renaldo Balkman. You will have to wait a little to see it because Williams is a couple of years younger than Balkman. Give him some time.So are you taking the bet? Or was this your way of weaseling out of the bet?

Balkman vs. Williams. Pick the time frame and we'll see who wins.



So because Knicks are a poor defending team, his inability to play defense should be forgiven ?
:downspin:Even good defenders become poor defenders on horrible teams. If Mahinmi played with the Knicks of the last two seasons, he'd have a 0% shot of being a good defender. Good defense starts with a focus from the head coach.


So because he is undersized, his inability to create his shot should be forgiven ?
:downspin:Did you name other power forwards that can create their own shot who aren't All-Stars?


:lmao
It's laughable and really egocentric to think that my evaluation about Lee is based on yours.Well you didn't deny it. I knew that was the origin.

Do you still think Mahinmi will be a better player than Lee?

:hat


The most important will be his ability to defend.

I quite like how you avoid the "poor defender" part that is by far his biggest flaw. It was a poorly executed smokescreen.You didn't see where I pointed to "stellar defense"?

Anyways, nitpicking David Lee's game is pretty lame for a Spurs fan since Lee is better than any second big the Spurs have had since Robinson retired. If you don't think Pop wouldn't cut off his right turnip to get Lee on the Spurs, you're crazy. Hell, as a Spurs fan, you should be offering a turnip instead of nitpicking the game of a guy who can get a double-double in less than 30 minutes on the worst franchise in the NBA.

[Bruno]

Want to make a title bet that Scola's name won't be in the HOF?

Way to twist things.
I made a bet with you that Scola won't be a HOF by himself.



Yeah Scola on the Spurs would be meaningless. Good call :rolleyes

Yeah he would.



Yeah the player you said it was a "disaster" and "tragedy" that the Spurs let him go.

The disaster was drafting a player with a quite high pick and waiving him 4th month later.
It has nothing to do with Marcus Williams by himself.
If Hill sucks ass and isn't able to become at least a decent backup PG down the road, it will also be a scouting failure.




Even good defenders become poor defenders on horrible teams.

So Marion nor Raja Bell weren't good defenders with Phoenix.




Did you name other power forwards that can create their own shot who aren't All-Stars?

Jackie Butler was quite good at creating his shoot. Oh wait, he should be an all star in your mind.
The trouble of Lee offense is that he can't shoot and can't create his shot.



Well you didn't deny it. I knew that was the origin.

Can you make a list of players that you like. I need new players to hate.




Do you still think Mahinmi will be a better player than Lee?

:hat

He could.



You didn't see where I pointed to "stellar defense"?

I see that you quickly point his poor defense before foicussing on his offense.
Are you a Suns or a Wizards fan ?



Anyways, nitpicking David Lee's game is pretty lame for a Spurs fan since Lee is better than any second big the Spurs have had since Robinson retired.

It's a ridiculous argument.
So Spurs fans can't criticize Garnett or Eddy Curry because they are better than their second best big .
Let's go further, I can't criticize any single professional basketball player because they are better players than me.

[tav1]

Is Pecherov injured?

He didn't play in Vegas at all.

I wondered the same thing.

[tp2021]

Damn. Bruno and Timvp with the hijack. Chump still needs his question answered!

[Bruno]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/19/AR2008071900002.html



The Wizards also hoped to further develop forward Oleksiy Pecherov, who appeared in 35 games as a rookie last season, but Pecherov will miss the entire league schedule with a sprained left ankle.

[ChumpDumper]

I may be wrong but I don't think D'Antoni has any hate for the Spurs now that he's away from the Suns. During summer league action, they showed Pop and D'Antoni talking in the stands. Pop also went to bat for D'Antoni after he got fired. Even during the heat of the playoff series, I don't remember Pop and D'Antoni ever showing any hate.

And seriously, whatever dislike he has for the Spurs is probably negated by the fact that he would like nothing better than the Suns to crash and burn without him. If that takes giving the Suns arch enemy a slight assist, I think that'd be fine with D'Antoni.

But I guess we'll see how it plays out. I have a feeling this might actually work out in the Spurs' favor as the Knicks clean house over the next couple years. An enemy of your number one enemy could be a friend in this case.I was sitting right across the aisle from D'Antoni during the Knick game. He and Pop had a very friendly conversation afterwards.

Then D'Antoni blocked our exit by having a mini press conference on the baseline. :nope

[urunobili]

I was sitting right across the aisle from D'Antoni during the Knick game. He and Pop had a very friendly conversation afterwards.

Then D'Antoni blocked our exit by having a mini press conference on the baseline. :nope

don;t blame it on D'antoni :whine

that should have been the organization and the arena's staff fault... :p:

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, D'Antoni was against the wall. There just isn't any room in the Cox Pavilion for the entire eastern seaboard press. That's the tradeoff for being so close to NBA notables.

[tp2021]

Sitting in my dorm needing a break from work, I played around with the ESPN trade machine and remembered the Beno trade exception. It isn't much; about $1.7 mil. But checking all the players on every roster, one of the more intriguing names is David Lee. He could be had with the exception.

Also, with the Knicks thinking about letting go of Marbury, their depth at PG becomes more of an issue. Duhon, whom they traded for, figures to be the man. Nate Robinson seems to play more SG at times, so perhaps they could use a veteran PG in Vaughn for insurance. However, if D'Antoni prefers more scoring, he might be more interested in Hill...

Anyway, the Knicks have a trade exception at a little under $1.4 million, even less than ours, which makes their options more limited. Jacque's salary is just under $1.3, so the Spurs and Knicks could use their respective TEs to sign the players of the trade.

Here's the link: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=&teams=&te=874:18-2986~2772:24-2448&cash=

Again, maybe this speculation is totally unfounded on my part, but I needed some ST to ease my mind.

[Allanon]

Sitting in my dorm needing a break from work, I played around with the ESPN trade machine and remembered the Beno trade exception. It isn't much; about $1.7 mil. But checking all the players on every roster, one of the more intriguing names is David Lee. He could be had with the exception.

Also, with the Knicks thinking about letting go of Marbury, their depth at PG becomes more of an issue. Duhon, whom they traded for, figures to be the man. Nate Robinson seems to play more SG at times, so perhaps they could use a veteran PG in Vaughn for insurance. However, if D'Antoni prefers more scoring, he might be more interested in Hill...

Anyway, the Knicks have a trade exception at a little under $1.4 million, even less than ours, which makes their options more limited. Jacque's salary is just under $1.3, so the Spurs and Knicks could use their respective TEs to sign the players of the trade.

Here's the link: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=&teams=&te=874:18-2986~2772:24-2448&cash=

Again, maybe this speculation is totally unfounded on my part, but I needed some ST to ease my mind.

I don't think the Knicks would ever consider trading David Lee, he's actually one of the few Knicks players that actually cares.

[tp2021]

Now I'm just being stupid.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=136~1996~874~1000~3452~3020~11 1~2171~881~2794&teams=29~27~27~29~24~24~17~27~17~17&te=3239:24-2448&cash=

[mountainballer]

I don't think the Knicks would ever consider trading David Lee, he's actually one of the few Knicks players that actually cares.

IMO they will. not to get rid of him, but to somehow become a player in the 2010 FA market. Lee needs to be re-signed 2009 and I don't think he will re sign for the minimum just to save the Knicks their cap space for 2010. he will at least get some MLE offers and matching such an offer will hurt the Knicks plans big time. so they will try to move him for something that doesn't cost much, but brings back talent and that's a future pick, as high as possible.
(or they use him as a teaser in a package and try a salary dump move. like Crawford plus Lee for a contract that expires 2010.)

[mountainballer]

Sitting in my dorm needing a break from work, I played around with the ESPN trade machine and remembered the Beno trade exception. It isn't much; about $1.7 mil. But checking all the players on every roster, one of the more intriguing names is David Lee. He could be had with the exception.


sorry, but Lee can't be had for the TE.
a TE can only be used to take a contract exactly as big or smaller. (no 125%+100K rule)
the Beno TE is $1,747,096 and Lee's salary is $1,788,033.
that's not much difference, but even a single $ is still to much.
(however, we know that the Knicks will get so much more for Lee than a TE. at least they will get a nice 1st round pick out of such a deal)

teams that will look to dump a player for a TE will be those that pay either lux tax and/or need to clear a roster spot.
I can see the Blazers try to dump Rodriguez for a TE plus a future pick (or rights?)
(this would be very intriguing for the Spurs IMO. Rodriguez wants out anyhow. yes, he struggled in the NBA, but he's a fantastic talent and still only 22).

other players likely available for our TE: Mardy Collins, Aaron Brooks, Travis Diener, Stephen Graham, Dominic McGuire, Mike Harris, Calvin Booth, Coby Karl, Steve Novak. not that I wanted any of them. (maybe I would give Collins a try and would think about McGuire, because of his size)

[tav1]

Other TE possibles: Sergio Rodriguez.

Javaris Crittenton or Kyle Lowry might be available if the Spurs took back a big contract, like Darko's millstone. Although, I personally like the idea of bringing in Lowry and, yes, Milicic, I'm sure the Spurs don't. And this would have to be done in two deals.

Another possibility, Bruno's suggestion, is Shawne Williams. He's too much of a knucklehead for Pop, though.

We might see the Spurs use their trade exception, but IMO it will be for a player who is going to be cut by his team because of roster limitations. The Spurs could take a flier, a la James White. This player would go to the Toros.

The Spurs have an odd mix of players under contract right now. Maybe we'll see them pull off a small trade between now and the start of the season.

[tp2021]

sorry, but Lee can't be had for the TE.
a TE can only be used to take a contract exactly as big or smaller. (no 125%+100K rule)
the Beno TE is $1,747,096 and Lee's salary is $1,788,033.
that's not much difference, but even a single $ is still to much.


OK...I just assumed it was a possibility since the Trade Machine approved of it.

[Allanon]

IMO they will. not to get rid of him, but to somehow become a player in the 2010 FA market. Lee needs to be re-signed 2009 and I don't think he will re sign for the minimum just to save the Knicks their cap space for 2010. he will at least get some MLE offers and matching such an offer will hurt the Knicks plans big time. so they will try to move him for something that doesn't cost much, but brings back talent and that's a future pick, as high as possible.
(or they use him as a teaser in a package and try a salary dump move. like Crawford plus Lee for a contract that expires 2010.)

I believe they'll keep him because the Knicks have the cap room to spare now. Last time I worked it out, it looked like the Knicks already have enough space to sign 2 max players in 2010. The other thing is the Knicks are rich and never afraid of the luxury tax...hell they have the highest payroll right now ($100 million) for that junk team.

Maybe you're right though, maybe they'll hold out to sign BOTH LeBron and Wade or Chris Bosh in 2010...that'd be crazy.


Other TE possibles: Sergio Rodriguez.

Javaris Crittenton or Kyle Lowry might be available if the Spurs took back a big contract, like Darko's millstone. Although, I personally like the idea of bringing in Lowry and, yes, Milicic, I'm sure the Spurs don't. And this would have to be done in two deals.

This is a very intriguing proposition. Either Kyle Lowry or Javaris Crittenton would be just what the doctor ordered for the Spurs.

In addition, taking back Darko isn't a bad thing.
1) $7.5 million isn't bad for a decent Center/PF
2) He only has 2 years left
3) He's still very young at 23 years old and he is a legit 7 foot, 275 pounds

His stats: 23 minutes, 44% fg, 6 rbds and 7 points...not bad at all for 23 minutes.

[Bruno]

The rule for a TE is 100%+100K.
CBA wise, Lee for the Beno TE works.

[tp2021]

Well if Bruno says it works, that's good enough for me.

[mountainballer]

OK...I just assumed it was a possibility since the Trade Machine approved of it.

well, I was wrong there, obviously.
sorry, my bad.

[tp2021]

It's all good. All input brings about discussion which helps lead to an informed conclusion.

[angelbelow]

get darko!

[DPG21920]

Still think the Nets could be a possibility:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/sports/nets/williams_faces_nets_challenge_131208.htm

Sean Williams Sean Williams could get a complex. The Nets New Jersey Nets ' 2007 first-round pick probably planned on quality time this season. So the Nets traded for Yi Jianlian, drafted Ryan Anderson, signed Eduardo Najera, all guys who play Williams' four spot. Plus, returning power guys Stromile Swift and Josh Boone Josh Boone hadn't moved.

"I see it as I'm glad I'm still here," said Williams, whose athleticism and shot-blocking intrigue. "If they didn't want me here, they would have traded me. It's a challenge, [but] every year there's 30 new guys coming into the league, so you've got to expect the competition. It only makes you better, pushes you."

Williams' goal is to be a defensive stopper. He insists he can guard all five positions by "using my athleticism to bring energy and a defensive presence . . . I'll play and do whatever needs to be done. All I want is for my teammates and the organization to respect what I do."

The Nets want Williams to be who and what he is. GM Kiki Vandeweghe said he wants players to maximize strengths, not just minimize weaknesses. Williams is a prime case.

"You look for Sean to use his athleticism to defend, rebound the ball at both ends and block shots," Vandeweghe said. "Create havoc out there with his ability to block shots and his ability to jump on the offensive rebound. It's important for Sean to stay within his game, do the things he does well and not try to do too many things."

So far, so good in camp.

[tav1]

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2008/10/no_tinsley_deal.html

The Pacers moved Tinsley to the Nuggets (suckers!) and now have a surplus of players (17). In short, the speculation about the availability of Shawne Williams has more credence this morning than last week. If the Spurs want to take a flier on a long wing, here's their chance.

Edit: My fault. I read the New York Post report and misread the headline of the Indy Star report. Tinsley has not been traded...the Indy Star report is to be favored over the New York Post.

[tp2021]

Its all speculation, but if the Spurs were to target one of these two players, which would they prefer: Cook, or Williams?

[tav1]

Its all speculation, but if the Spurs were to target one of these two players, which would they prefer: Cook, or Williams?

I don't think Dequan Cook is available. But the Spurs did like him in the past. Still, given the current roster, I'd rather have Williams.

I'm not a Williams fan per se, but he's on a one year deal and worth a trade exception flier. Worse case, he walks next summer. Best case, we find a future 8th man in the deal.

[tp2021]

I don't think Dequan Cook is available. But the Spurs did like him in the past. Still, given the current roster, I'd rather have Williams.

I'm not a Williams fan per se, but he's on a one year deal and worth a trade exception flier. Worse case, he walks next summer. Best case, we find a future 8th man in the deal.


Talk of Cook being available in this thread:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106227

[angelbelow]

if cook is available the spurs should be going after him pretty hard. if we get him via TE i would be estatic because it will be like we didnt waste our pick last year.

[tav1]

Talk of Cook being available in this thread:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106227

Thanks. I hadn't seen that report.

From where I sit, either player is worth the trade exception and roster spot. If the Spurs can land either one, then they should.

Cook wouldn't play for us with Mason Jr. and Manu at guard, so I'll still kinda favor Williams. Although I think Cook might be a little better. And Cook is also D-League eligible.

But finding a serviceable wing is such a priority in my book, I'd prefer Williams.

It's nice to know these options are out there. This off season might not be over with yet.

[tav1]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3624290

Livingston is in Miami.

Buford should be on the phone with Indiana and Miami right now.

[Spurs Brazil]

Livingston On Verge Of Deal With Heat


Oct 03, 2008 4:27 AM EST
Former high lottery pick Shaun Livingston is on the verge of signing a contract with the Miami Heat, according to a report in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

It is believed that Livingston will meet with the Heat on Friday where he will sign a contract. Agent Henry Thomas said earlier this week that Livingston was "leaning toward Miami."

The move may mean more moves are on the horizon for the Heat, with Pat Riley trying to keep his ball club away from the luxury tax. According to the report Miami may try to trade away Daequan Cook or Dorell Wright for nothing in return.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/54677/20081003/livingston_on_verge_of_deal_with_heat/

[lotr1trekkie]

Bring back Rasho! He would give us 10 minutes of SIZE and he knows the Spur's system. He will go back to Europe next year anyway. Exactly which big on the current roster can play D and rebound if Fab or T-man is injured?? Ian?

[timvp]

Cook being available is really interesting. The Spurs have been stockpiling scorers and Cook is another scorer. If the Heat want to salary dump, the Spurs should be offering at least two second rounders.

[kobyz]

if we could get Shawne Williams with the Trade Exception it will be great!!

[tav1]

Bring back Rasho! He would give us 10 minutes of SIZE and he knows the Spur's system. He will go back to Europe next year anyway. Exactly which big on the current roster can play D and rebound if Fab or T-man is injured?? Ian?

wtf? Rasho isn't a part of this conversation. Stay on point.

[tav1]

Cook being available is really interesting. The Spurs have been stockpiling scorers and Cook is another scorer. If the Heat want to salary dump, the Spurs should be offering at least two second rounders.

Strangely enough, of the young guys that played around Wade last season, I thought Cook and Wright were the only two that could become rotation players down the road.

If the Spurs go in this direction, they could waive JV and let Stoudamire walk. Roger Mason could play some minutes at point once Manu comes back.

Ideally, I would let Cook play in Austin this season, but the Manu injury could open up minutes for him early.

[tav1]

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/basketball/story/711303.html

Recent piece on Cook, his shoulder injury, etc...

[intlspurshk]

I would take Dorrell Wright for sure

[tav1]

Wright is off the table until Dec. 15. If the Spurs make a move, it'll be because they don't like what the see from the likes of Hairston and Green in training camp or because someone like Cook is available for a low price. But they'd want to make it sooner than later so that the newly acquired players could begin to learn the system.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why would the Heat get rid of Wright? He looks like he'll be a decent player, and fits our need. Grab him if you can.

[kobyz]

Wright can't be traded until the 15 December cause he sign an extension!

Shawne Williams from Indiana can be what we need in a 3 and it's realistic that we can get him with the Trade Exception cause Indiana want to get rid off him in some time

[Spurs Brazil]

Miami opened training camp with 16 players under at least partially guaranteed contracts, one above the league regular season maximum. The Heat had its $1.9 million lower-level exception available to sign Livingston. But Riley said such a move into the tax would require approval from owner Micky Arison.

Banks, who has three years and $13.5 million left on his contract, would seem to be the likeliest candidate to be traded. But it is uncertain how much interest other teams have in Banks, a backup since he was drafted 13th overall in 2003.

Shooting guard Daequan Cook, a first-round draft pick last season, could also be dealt. Cook struggled in his rookie season and has lost ground on the depth chart.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/712638.html

[DROB4EVER]

Dont see the spurs using the TE. I think they are set with what they have. I would love to see us get Williams from Jersey, Cook would be nice too, but Miami is not shopping Cook I can tell you that for sure. They may be willing to move him if you take Hasslums contract but they like him a lot and is a key biulding pc.

[tav1]

Indy Star from this morning.

"The trade, however, also would give the Pacers 17 players under contract, two more than the NBA allows. They would have to release or trade two players by the Oct. 27 deadline. They would have to release or trade another if Austin Croshere makes the team."

"Tinsley's past three seasons have been marked by injuries limiting his availability and several off-court issues that negatively impacted the franchise. Coach Jim O'Brien lost confidence in Tinsley after last season, and the Pacers told him to stay away from the team while they pursued a trade."

If the Spurs were interested in Williams (this off season has me pessimistic that they are even considering Cook or Williams) they might simply select him off the waiver wire.

With players like Williams and Cook seemingly available, Hill and Stoudamire in camp, Manu's injury, and a combo guard in Mason Jr., I can't see JV making the roster this season. The need for offense is too pressing and the number of roster-worthy guards too many.

[ChuckD]

Dont see the spurs using the TE. I think they are set with what they have. I would love to see us get Williams from Jersey, Cook would be nice too, but Miami is not shopping Cook I can tell you that for sure. They may be willing to move him if you take Hasslums contract but they like him a lot and is a key biulding pc.

/thread

[tav1]

The Spurs are in a relative position of strength compared to the rest of the league regarding trade exceptions. 10 or 12 teams have them, but of that number only about half could use it to acquire Cook or Williams. Perhaps the Spurs would get out bid in terms of draft picks, but they're competing with the likes of Cleveland, Milwaukee and OKC if Cook or Williams is dealt for a TE.

In other words, the Spurs have time to deliberate between their campers and Cook and Williams. If they acquired Williams, he's not in line for any pt. It would be a let's look as him in practice and see if he's a total knucklehead or just a young kid kinda of thing. If they landed Cook, they'd want to do so in time for Austin's camp.

If the Spurs don't land either player, it's not because they couldn't.

In a sense, the ball is in Malik Hairston's court. I'm assuming Tolliver.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I'd like to see the Spurs land both players, but the roster won't allow for it.

Neither player would matter much this season, but both could conceivably contribute next season. This is great chance to make up for not having a first round draft pick next June.

The Spurs lose nothing in bringing in either player. It's a win-win.

[DPG21920]

Sean Williams would play now, so would Cook

[tav1]

Sean Williams would play now, so would Cook

Sean Williams is off the table. He's killing dudes in NJ camp. He'll start for them this season.

Who is Cook going to play in front of? Where would he get minutes?

[DPG21920]

Cook would get spot minutes at the two, especially if we needed more shooting. That would allow for Ime to solely back up Bowen. Williams is not off the table. He was the only guy in the league last year to average 2 blocks a game in under 20 (for a large portion of the year) minutes and he still did not start. If you look at the Nets roster, they have 15 players under contract (and that is not including Van Horn's contract). Of the 15 players: Josh Boone (6'10), Ryan Anderson (6'10), Brook Lopez (7'0), Yi Jianlian (7'0), Eduardo Najera (6'8), Stomile Swift (6'10) and Sean Williams (6'10) are all bigs. They have to do something about that.

[tav1]

Cook would get spot minutes at the two, especially if we needed more shooting. That would allow for Ime to solely back up Bowen. Williams is not off the table. He was the only guy in the league last year to average 2 blocks a game in under 20 (for a large portion of the year) minutes and he still did not start. If you look at the Nets roster, they have 15 players under contract (and that is not including Van Horn's contract). Of the 15 players: Josh Boone (6'10), Ryan Anderson (6'10), Brook Lopez (7'0), Yi Jianlian (7'0), Eduardo Najera (6'8), Stomile Swift (6'10) and Sean Williams (6'10) are all bigs. They have to do something about that.

They're not going to trade Sean Williams for nothing when they have dead weight like Swift on the roster. Like you said, Williams averaged 2 blocks in under 20 minutes and from all reports out of NJ, he's improved between then and now. They'll trade Swift or Boone first. And beside, they're not making the playoffs this year. If they carry an extra big, so what.

Listen, I wish the Spurs could get Sean Williams. It's just a pipe dream at this point.

Regarding Cook, if by spot minutes you mean 2 or 3 a game for the first 20, then maybe. He'd be better off in Austin. Otherwise, the Spurs are much better off going with Mason, Manu and, yes, Finley, until Cook knows the system.

[DPG21920]

Still think the Nets could be a possibility:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/sports/nets/williams_faces_nets_challenge_131208.htm

Sean Williams Sean Williams could get a complex. The Nets New Jersey Nets ' 2007 first-round pick probably planned on quality time this season. So the Nets traded for Yi Jianlian, drafted Ryan Anderson, signed Eduardo Najera, all guys who play Williams' four spot. Plus, returning power guys Stromile Swift and Josh Boone Josh Boone hadn't moved.

"I see it as I'm glad I'm still here," said Williams, whose athleticism and shot-blocking intrigue. "If they didn't want me here, they would have traded me. It's a challenge, [but] every year there's 30 new guys coming into the league, so you've got to expect the competition. It only makes you better, pushes you."

Williams' goal is to be a defensive stopper. He insists he can guard all five positions by "using my athleticism to bring energy and a defensive presence . . . I'll play and do whatever needs to be done. All I want is for my teammates and the organization to respect what I do."

The Nets want Williams to be who and what he is. GM Kiki Vandeweghe said he wants players to maximize strengths, not just minimize weaknesses. Williams is a prime case.

"You look for Sean to use his athleticism to defend, rebound the ball at both ends and block shots," Vandeweghe said. "Create havoc out there with his ability to block shots and his ability to jump on the offensive rebound. It's important for Sean to stay within his game, do the things he does well and not try to do too many things."

So far, so good in camp.

[tav1]

And two dats later:


NJ Nets: The Sean Chronicles


by Dave D'Alessandro/The Star-Ledger

Wednesday October 01, 2008, 2:21 PM

It seems that not a day goes by without someone shoveling effusive praise on Sean Williams - which you heard last year, but this time it's different. This time it doesn't sound as if they're content just to have this shiny new toy to play with. It sounds like they're genuinely impressed by the way he's trying to remake himself.

Vince first. We asked him who the camp stars have been so far, and he came out with this:

"Ryan's been playing great basketball. His development, from watching him in the summer league to now, has been just tremendous," Carter said, referring to Ryan Anderson, the rook.

"But I should have said Sean first. Sean's been amazing. At both ends -- his development at the offensive end and his ability at the defensive end have been tremendous. I think he's going to be a big part of what we do, as far as our transition game and halfcourt offense. He'd definitely be No. 1."

Has he noticed whether he's being treated differently than last year, when Sean was basically regarded as everybody's goofy little brother?

"We treat him just like everyone else: 'You're a grown man, you're an NBA player, and we expect what we expect,'" Carter said. "He's handling it well."

And just to prove he wasn't tugging everybody's chain Tuesday, L-Frank went on (and on) about Williams today.

"Sean has played very very well. He truly has," the coach said. "He's bringing great energy. He's impacting the game in other ways other than blocking shots. He's getting himself in the right position at the right times defensively, put himself in position to take charges. He's talking more. Offensively, he's doing a good job running the floor, extra possessions, working the glass. He's doing a good job of doing his job and he's been pretty consistent doing it so he's stood out."

So, a growth spurt. Now he just needs someone to stay in his ear, we assume?

"I think he's been focused in terms of doing his job and understanding what his job is, and if you do your job, then good things can happen," Frank said. "I think everyone is there to guide him. Our assistants have spent a lot of time talking to him, Kiki has been with him. John Lucas has been with him. Ultimately it comes down to you wanting to do what you need to do."

It sounds as though Yi Jianlian is getting close - very close - to actually doing something resembling basketball again. The coach related that he did some dummy offense Tuesday night, and once they hit the 24-hour mark, they'll evaluate where his sore ankle is. Wednesday, he stuck to rehab work and light shooting. Thursday? He might actually scrimmage, but nobody's confirming that yet.

Things have been going so well, L-Frank called off the night session Wednesday, so two-a-days are officially over, done, kaput.

Either that, or he's getting soft.

Either that, or there were just too many tweaks (Lopez leg bruise, Hayes hamstring, Najera wrist, and Swift got an eye-poke) to push his luck.

Either that, or his voice just can't take these 14-hour days, because he can barely be heard at this point.

"It's basically taking into account what they did in September, and just their attention in the meeting this morning," the coach said, adding that they aced another pop quiz. "It just felt like they deserved it. I said, 'We're not giving you anything. You've earned it.' So we're off tonight and we'll be back at it tomorrow."

If you're wondering about Carter, who needed a few days to get his legs back, he officially declares himself up to speed.

"I think the first two practices was more of an adjustment period. I was trying to get myself back into the swing of things," he said Wednesday. "I felt I wasn't where I wanted to be for training camp and I was kind of playing catchup with my rhythm. By Day 3, I felt a little better."

Coach: "He's had a very good camp. In terms of wins he's right up there towards the top. He may have even taken the lead today, either him or Devin."

By wins, he means where his team comes out in scrimmages and other competitions. Somebody charts each individual's "record," and Carter is on top.

Which is a good thing, because a dirty, closely-guarded secret was that Vince floated through camp last year - not because he had just signed the new contract, but because he and his savvy veteran teammates thought they could pace themselves. Oops.

We got to watch an eight-minute scrimmage Wednesday, and Julius Hodge turned the last two minutes into his personal playground.

No kidding: His team (the whites, with Josh/Awvee/Gill and Simmons at the 4) was down early, but it was a close game with two minutes left. Then Hodge channeled his inner Jordan and....


Broke back 2-on-3 to hit a lefty floating bank shot to give White the lead;


Got to the rim off a high screen from Simmons for a layup;


Stole Sean's inbounds pass and hit a left hand over Sean, who hacked him, giving White a 16-10 lead with 40 seconds left, and leading to a Frank lecture on how to take the ball out;


Airballed the resulting free throw. Everyone politely chose to ignore that;


And when they went to sudden death overtime (16-16, Devin hit a buzzer-beating 3), he set up Storey's winning trey with a drive-and-kick.

Yes, Julius Hodge dominated.

Against Carter/Harris.

That's camp for ya.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs didn't want to come off Vet min ($1.25M) up to the LLE ($1.9M) for Barry, why would they bring on an entire new contract with the Beno trade exception (which expires in days, BTW)? They're done. WYSIWYG.

[tav1]

If the Spurs didn't want to come off Vet min ($1.25M) up to the LLE ($1.9M) for Barry, why would they bring on an entire new contract with the Beno trade exception (which expires in days, BTW)? They're done. WYSIWYG.

Because there is talent available for cheap that comes with an available out next summer. Just like James White or any of the 10 day contracts they ran last year, accept Williams and Cook are better than any of the aforementioned players. They also purchased the Toros to develop young talent. Cook is Toros eligible and liked by the FO.

Using their trade exception for one of these players is consistent with past patterns.

I agree that there are 2-1 odds against the Spurs making a move, but unlike most trade speculation these are well within the realm of possibility.

[Bruno]

I don't think Spurs are really interested in Shawne Williams. He is without a doubt available so if Spurs wanted him, they would have made a trade for him before the training camp.

If Cook is really available, I can definitively Spurs trying to get him.

[exstatic]

Because there is talent available for cheap that comes with an available out next summer. Just like James White or any of the 10 day contracts they ran last year, accept Williams and Cook are better than any of the aforementioned players. They also purchased the Toros to develop young talent. Cook is Toros eligible and liked by the FO.

Using their trade exception for one of these players is consistent with past patterns.

I agree that there are 2-1 odds against the Spurs making a move, but unlike most trade speculation these are well within the realm of possibility.

I think it's more like 20/1. They let a player they KNOW works in their system walk over ~$600K. SA also doesn't have their 2009 first rounder to deal, and since they've already traded it, they cannot now trade their 2010 first rounder until 2010 draft night as a pick-n-trade. That's a long fucking time to wait for payment on Daquan.

[DPG21920]

And two dats later:

That article says nothing. It says he has been good in practice, with his main competition out (YI, Eduardo, .................). They would not have made trades for guys in his position, signed free agents in his position and drafted a guy in the first round in his position if they wanted him that badly. Use logic. Not saying they will just give him away, but you are seriously not looking at the situation. The fact is they brought numerous players in at his position, and he did not play last year with less guys there.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs didn't want to come off Vet min ($1.25M) up to the LLE ($1.9M) for Barry, why would they bring on an entire new contract with the Beno trade exception (which expires in days, BTW)? They're done. WYSIWYG.

If they can get a good YOUNG piece, than they would use it. Who cares if Barry and Finley new the system, they want to get younger and better and only wanted one of the 2 back. They chose. That does not mean they will pass on young talent for cheap.

[tav1]

That article says nothing. It says he has been good in practice, with his main competition out (YI, Eduardo, .................). They would not have made trades for guys in his position, signed free agents in his position and drafted a guy in the first round in his position if they wanted him that badly. Use logic. Not saying they will just give him away, but you are seriously not looking at the situation. The fact is they brought numerous players in at his position, and he did not play last year with less guys there.

Says nothing. Give me a break.

He played 18 minutes a game as a rookie. He averaged 2 blocks. His coaches and teammates and GM are raving about his off season and camp. Carter thinks he's their starter.

Here's another article, even more recent, that says as much.

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2008/10/new_jersey_nets_sean_williams.html

The news from NJ is: Nets like Williams.

They brought in some of those players to replace Krstic. It doesn't necessarily reflect on Williams.

So yes, I am "seriously looking at the situation" and my logic is fine. The Spurs aren't getting Williams for a trade exception.

[tav1]

I think it's more like 20/1. They let a player they KNOW works in their system walk over ~$600K. SA also doesn't have their 2009 first rounder to deal, and since they've already traded it, they cannot now trade their 2010 first rounder until 2010 draft night as a pick-n-trade. That's a long fucking time to wait for payment on Daquan.

I'll grant the 20 to 1 stuff, but what's their lack of a 2009 round 1 have to do with anything. No one is suggesting the Spurs pair a 1st round pick with their trade exception. Why would they have to wait until 2010 for payment on Daequen Cook? I don't follow.