Its painfully clear now..... Jordan > Kobe and its not close

[lebomb]

Jordan was way, way more consistent. He didnt have a 35pt. game followed by a flameout. He was always pretty consistent. Also, I dont think he ever allowed his team to blow a 24pt. lead in the playoffs.....hell!!! In a game period.


Kobe is good I know, but he dayum sure in NOT a Jordan.

[spurms]

Jordan was way, way more consistent. He didnt have a 35pt. game followed by a flameout. He was always pretty consistent. Also, I dont think he ever allowed his team to blow a 24pt. lead in the playoffs.....hell!!! In a game period.


Kobe is good I know, but he dayum sure in NOT a Jordan.

Umm, it has been clear all along, i was the first to bring this up to the lakers fans that there's no point comparing them both, and there's still no point comparing em both. People should stop putting down kobe by using jordan, because it's obviously lame.

[stretch]

I even know a die-hard Laker fan who LOVES Kobe, and has a disdain for Jordan, and he admitted that there is no way in hell that Jordan lets what happened last night, happen.

I've been saying this for a while now, and I think it is very evident. Kobe does not know when to, and when not to take over games. For instance, last night, he took over WAY too late. The bleeding had already gone too far, Boston caught fire, and he was unable to get into a rhythm when he wanted to. People can bag on Jordan for being a dick as a leader, but he is a dick that sure did know how to take over games. Another thing, even when Jordan lost, you could say that he did everything he possibly could do in his power to win the game. He would take over when needed, get his teammates involved, whatever. He ALWAYS gave it his all. Kobe clearly did not give it everything he had last night, nor has he throughout the series.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Shit Lebron James even took the Cavs to 7 games against the Celtics and almost single handily beat them too!
damn forgot about that

[lebomb]

So in that case is Lebron > Kobe as well??? :(

[xtremesteven33]

ive said that i would rather have Lebron>Kobe.

Lebron seems more like a natural born leader.
he gets all his teammates involved.
and he can take over a game at will.

[JamStone]

All part of Kobe's plan to go down 3-1 in the Finals just like spotting the Spurs a 20 point lead in game 1 of the WCF. It will be the greatest series comeback in NBA Finals history.

Buwahahahahahahahahahaha!

[DazedAndConfused]

I just want the Lakers to win Game 5, don't let those Beantown fucks celebrate on our home floor. If we push the series to 6 games I can live with that.

The championship run starts next season. Give me a healthy Bynum and another year of experience with this core and I don't see any team knocking us out. This will be a repeat of what happened in the 80's, BOS wins in '84 and the Lakers strike back in '85 and go on to dominate the 80's.

[Indazone]

Jordan was way, way more consistent. He didnt have a 35pt. game followed by a flameout. He was always pretty consistent. Also, I dont think he ever allowed his team to blow a 24pt. lead in the playoffs.....hell!!! In a game period.


Kobe is good I know, but he dayum sure in NOT a Jordan.

But how much of it was Jordan and how much of it was the frigging refs giving every call to Jordan. Every shot touch foul going to the line, every bump a foul against the other player, and every single non call with Jordan taking it to the rack. This ref things makes you question everything you ever watched in the NBA.

[mffl89]

Shit Lebron James even took the Cavs to 7 games against the Celtics and almost single handily beat them too!

The Hawks also took the Celtics to 7 games but was destroyed in game 7.
Hawks > Lakers?

[DazedAndConfused]

It's all about matchups. Both the Cavs and the Hawks have very physical front lines that gave the Celtics all kinds of trouble.

[Spur-Addict]

I just want the Lakers to win Game 5, don't let those Beantown fucks celebrate on our home floor. If we push the series to 6 games I can live with that.

The championship run starts next season. Give me a healthy Bynum and another year of experience with this core and I don't see any team knocking us out. This will be a repeat of what happened in the 80's, BOS wins in '84 and the Lakers strike back in '85 and go on to dominate the 80's.

This isn't fan talk when your team is still in the finals. I know if my team was playing i'd be mad, but, i'd still believe.

[Spur-Addict]

Oh, it was clear a long time ago that Jordan is better than kobe. VERY CLEAR

[xtremesteven33]

---------Jordan





















-----------Kobe

[gasolina]

Umm, it has been clear all along, i was the first to bring this up to the lakers fans that there's no point comparing them both, and there's still no point comparing em both. People should stop putting down kobe by using jordan, because it's obviously lame.

Don't give a rats ass to newbies who were 5 years old when MJ last won an NBA title in 1998. Now that they are 15, they have only seen the likes of Kobe,Lebron,Vince Carter or TMac.

And they watched Kobe score 81... and watched Kobe go for 40plus in 5 games straight!!! Now they check MJ's stats and see no 80 points scored. :rolleyes

Kobe is good. But MJ is way out of his league.

[DazedAndConfused]

This isn't fan talk when your team is still in the finals. I know if my team was playing i'd be mad, but, i'd still believe.

Of course you want to believe, but you have to be realistic as well. The defense just isn't there for the Lakers this year.

[lebomb]

And they watched Kobe score 81... and watched Kobe go for 40plus in 5 games straight!!! Now they check MJ's stats and see no 80 points scored. :rolleyes



True, but MJ averaged 37pts a game one season and had a hell of alot of 40pt, 50pt and 60pt games.

As a rookie Jordan averaged 28pts a game and had several 40pt games.

MJ averaged 33pts a game for his career in the playoffs.


Man, its not even close IMHO. MJ did his thing over an entire career.....Kobe cant even keep it up in one playoff series. :rolleyes

[Lakers08Champs]

Jordan > Kobe







Kobe> The NBA today.

[lebomb]

Jordan > Kobe







Kobe> The NBA today.


Now this I fully agree with. :toast

[baseline bum]

It has always been painfully clear.

[Warlord23]

Like I've said all along, Kobe has the sheer talent to be in that type of discussion, but IMO he has screwed the pooch when he had the opportunity to be the 1st option on a Finals team:

- 2004 vs Pistons, took too many shots, shot 37% or some such and got crushed
- The current struggle on both offense and defense, culminating in last night's choke job

Jordan almost always peaked in the NBA Finals, but Kobe has struggled in the biggest stage of them all. His legacy is still a that of a great talent who was second banana on 3 title teams (thanks to the choking Blazers in 2000 and some horrible officiating in 2002). Unless he pulls off something special in the next 3 games, his Finals record looks very unflattering indeed.

[bostonguy]

Shit Lebron James even took the Cavs to 7 games against the Celtics and almost single handily beat them too!

After seeing what the Celts have done last round and so far in these finals, those series against the Hawks/Cavs were the best thing that could have happened to them. They easily should have dispatched both teams in 5-6 games tops but who knows what that would of done to this team. Both of those rounds going 7 games got this team ready for the Pistons and so far these Lakers.

[Heath Ledger]

You are comparing Apples to Oranges, the Bulls were a powerhouse team all the way around, the Lakers surrounding Kobe couldn't wear those bulls jockstrap.

[DazedAndConfused]

Like I've said all along, Kobe has the sheer talent to be in that type of discussion, but IMO he has screwed the pooch when he had the opportunity to be the 1st option on a Finals team:

- 2004 vs Pistons, took too many shots, shot 37% or some such and got crushed
- The current struggle on both offense and defense, culminating in last night's choke job

Jordan almost always peaked in the NBA Finals, but Kobe has struggled in the biggest stage of them all. His legacy is still a that of a great talent who was second banana on 3 title teams (thanks to the choking Blazers in 2000 and some horrible officiating in 2002). Unless he pulls off something special in the next 3 games, his Finals record looks very unflattering indeed.

People forget that even Jordan had Final's performances where he shot just as horribly. In 1996 I remember he threw up some real stinkers (5-19, 9-22, 6-19). Winning at the highest level is a team effort.

The Lakers are not losing this series because Kobe isn't shooting well. They are losing because of their defense. If Kobe can't win a ring when Bynum returns then I think we can sufficiently say the man is not capable of leading a team to the promise land. Right now there are too many deficiencies in this current Laker squad to place the blame solely on his shoulders.

[spurscenter]

Shit Lebron James even took the Cavs to 7 games against the Celtics and almost single handily beat them too!

great point

[The Franchise]

I just want the Lakers to win Game 5, don't let those Beantown fucks celebrate on our home floor. If we push the series to 6 games I can live with that.

The championship run starts next season. Give me a healthy Bynum and another year of experience with this core and I don't see any team knocking us out. This will be a repeat of what happened in the 80's, BOS wins in '84 and the Lakers strike back in '85 and go on to dominate the 80's.

:blahSHADDUPP!!!!!

[Warlord23]

People forget that even Jordan had Final's performances where he shot just as horribly. In 1996 I remember he threw up some real stinkers (5-19, 9-22, 6-19). Winning at the highest level is a team effort.

The Lakers are not losing this series because Kobe isn't shooting well. They are losing because of their defense. If Kobe can't win a ring when Bynum returns then I think we can sufficiently say the man is not capable of leading a team to the promise land. Right now there are too many deficiencies in this current Laker squad to place the blame solely on his shoulders.

See that's the thing, I'm not looking at single-game performances. I don't take a 1-game achievement as proof of anything. Just like 81 against a pathetic Raptor team shouldn't define a player's career, one bad game does not typify a series.

I'm looking at Jordan's Finals legacy: 6-0 in Finals series with 6 unquestioned Finals MVPs. If Kobe scores 40 in game 5 the fanboys will be all over the place. Jordan OTOH averaged 41.0 PPG for an entire Finals series in 1993.

Jordan's finals series:
1991: 31.2 PPG, 11.4 APG, 6.6 RPG on 56% FGP
1992: 35.8 PPG, 6.5 APG, 4.8 RPG on 53% FGP
1993: 41.0 PPG, 6.3 APG, 8.5 RPG on 51% FGP
1996: 27.3 PPG, 4.2 APG, 5.3 RPG on 41.5% FGP
1997: 32.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 7.0 RPG on 46% FGP
1998: 33.5 PPG, 2.3 APG, 4.0 RPG on 43% FGP

[DazedAndConfused]

See that's the thing, I'm not looking at single-game performances. I don't take a 1-game achievement as proof of anything. Just like 81 against a pathetic Raptor team shouldn't define a player's career, one bad game does not typify a series.

I'm looking at Jordan's Finals legacy: 6-0 in Finals series with 6 unquestioned Finals MVPs. If Kobe scores 40 in game 5 the fanboys will be all over the place. Jordan OTOH averaged 41.0 PPG for an entire Finals series in 1993.

Jordan's finals series:
1991: 31.2 PPG, 11.4 APG, 6.6 RPG on 56% FGP
1992: 35.8 PPG, 6.5 APG, 4.8 RPG on 53% FGP
1993: 41.0 PPG, 6.3 APG, 8.5 RPG on 51% FGP
1996: 27.3 PPG, 4.2 APG, 5.3 RPG on 41.5% FGP
1997: 32.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 7.0 RPG on 46% FGP
1998: 33.5 PPG, 2.3 APG, 4.0 RPG on 43% FGP

What's your point? Kobe isn't as good as MJ, we get it. That doesn't mean he isn't a phenomenal talent capable of leading a team to a championship.

It doesn't matter how good YOU are as an individual, unless you have a supporting cast around you that can step it up you aren't going anywhere. The Lakers have all the pieces in place EXCEPT for a defensive anchor, which is probably the most important piece to have in the playoffs. Talk shit about Kobe all you want if he cannot lead a team with Bynum to a championship. As of right now, the Lakers are losing because their defense is horrendous......not because Kobe is having bad shooting nights.

[KobeOwnsBowen]

Jordan got way more help than Kobe. It is not even funny. Kobe is the greatest.

[Gino]

What's your point? Kobe isn't as good as MJ, we get it. That doesn't mean he isn't a phenomenal talent capable of leading a team to a championship.

It doesn't matter how good YOU are as an individual, unless you have a supporting cast around you that can step it up you aren't going anywhere. The Lakers have all the pieces in place EXCEPT for a defensive anchor, which is probably the most important piece to have in the playoffs. Talk shit about Kobe all you want if he cannot lead a team with Bynum to a championship. As of right now, the Lakers are losing because their defense is horrendous......not because Kobe is having bad shooting nights.

LMAO!!! Laker fans are resting all their hope on the defensive skills of Andrew "Ship his as out" Bynum.

Keep thinking that, D&C if it helps you sleep better at night.

[The Franchise]

Jordan got way more help than Kobe. It is not even funny. Kobe is the greatest.

You must be kidding. Compared to the team Kobe has Jordan had some real bums. If you remember the only two constant faces on those championship Bulls teams were Mike and Scottie. The rest of them were plug and play.

[DazedAndConfused]

You must be kidding. Compared to the team Kobe has Jordan had some real bums. If you remember the only two constant faces on those championship Bulls teams were Mike and Scottie. The rest of them were plug and play.

I don't agree with that at all. During Jordan's baseball vacation, Pippen lead the Bulls to 50+ wins. Let me repeat that, the Bulls were a 50+ win team WITHOUT Jordan. It clearly wasn't all Jordan, he had an extremely capable cast. There may not have been many big names besides Pippen, but those teams were incredibly well balanced and filled with tough minded vets who had the killer instinct needed to win.

Do you honestly see the Lakers winning anything close to 50+ games without Kobe?

I'm not saying Kobe is > MJ. I'm saying MJ needed help to win championships, he didn't get to the promise land with a bunch of scrubs. Why do people expect Kobe to do the same?

[The Franchise]

I don't agree with that at all. During Jordan's baseball vacation, Pippen lead the Bulls to 50+ wins. Let me repeat that, the Bulls were a 50+ win team WITHOUT Jordan. It clearly wasn't all Jordan, he had an extremely capable cast. There may not have been many big names besides Pippen, but those teams were incredibly well balanced and filled with tough minded vets who had the killer instinct needed to win.

Do you honestly see the Lakers winning anything close to 50+ games without Kobe?

I'm not saying Kobe is > MJ. I'm saying MJ needed help to win championships, he didn't get to the promise land with a bunch of scrubs. Why do people expect Kobe to do the same?

I have a question. If you put MJ in Kobes place do you think the Lakers would be losing? If you say no then the comparison is over. Kobe is the best in the league now, but MJ is the King past and present. Kobes' game reflects his personality to much. Selfish and stubborn.

[DazedAndConfused]

I have a question. If you put MJ in Kobes place do you think the Lakers would be losing? If you say no then the comparison is over. Kobe is the best in the league now, but MJ is the King past and present. Kobes' game reflects his personality to much. Selfish and stubborn.

Yes the Lakers would still be losing if MJ swapped places with Kobe.

[daslicer]

Yes the Lakers would still be losing if MJ swapped places with Kobe.

I don't think so walking Vagina the thing is that MJ was also great defensive player which Kobe isn't. MJ had Bruce Bowen like defense and on top of that could play lockdown D on anybody at will. Do you honestly Ray Allen would play well against MJ considering this is the same guy who cries whenever he goes up against Bruce. MJ would shut down either Pierce or Allen which would make the big 3 the big 2. Defense is very underatted but you got think about how this series would be different if Ray Allen could be shut down. He's been huge all of the games.

[DazedAndConfused]

I don't think so walking Vagina the thing is that MJ was also great defensive player which Kobe isn't. MJ had Bruce Bowen like defense and on top of that could play lockdown D on anybody at will. Do you honestly Ray Allen would play well against MJ considering this is the same guy who cries whenever he goes up against Bruce. MJ would shut down either Pierce or Allen which would make the big 3 the big 2. Defense is very underatted but you got think about how this series would be different if Ray Allen could be shut down. He's been huge all of the games.

It's amazing how people rewrite history when they talk about MJ. It tends to happen when we talk about the greats, they are always remembered to be greater than they actually were. In Jordan's case, he never had to guard the opposing team's best wing player.....that was all on Scottie Pippen. There is no way Jordan could guard a guy like Pierce for 48 minutes and then have the energy to shoot 50% from the field against the Celtic defense. That's just not happening. And he wouldn't be much help against Ray Allen either, Allen gets open because he's running through 3-4 different screens (half of which are moving picks by KG). All he needs is a glimmer of daylight and he can get a shot off, like Reggie Miller there is no way you can stop him from getting at least a few open looks.

The Celtic's defense is geared towards stopping one man shows like Kobe and Lebron. If Lebron couldn't get to the rim against the Celtic defense then there is no way that Jordan would have been able to. Jordan would have had to have made his living off of jumpshots the way Kobe has to now. You don't beat this Celtic team with ISO play, you beat them by playing team basketball. Move the ball around and find the gaps in the defense. It has to be a team effort. No one player is going to single handedly beat a defense as good as the Celtics.

[gasolina]

It's amazing how people rewrite history when they talk about MJ. It tends to happen when we talk about the greats, they are always remembered to be greater than they actually were. In Jordan's case, he never had to guard the opposing team's best wing player.....that was all on Scottie Pippen. There is no way Jordan could guard a guy like Pierce for 48 minutes and then have the energy to shoot 50% from the field against the Celtic defense. That's just not happening. And he wouldn't be much help against Ray Allen either, Allen gets open because he's running through 3-4 different screens (half of which are moving picks by KG). All he needs is a glimmer of daylight and he can get a shot off, like Reggie Miller there is no way you can stop him from getting at least a few open looks.

The Celtic's defense is geared towards stopping one man shows like Kobe and Lebron. If Lebron couldn't get to the rim against the Celtic defense then there is no way that Jordan would have been able to. Jordan would have had to have made his living off of jumpshots the way Kobe has to now. You don't beat this Celtic team with ISO play, you beat them by playing team basketball. Move the ball around and find the gaps in the defense. It has to be a team effort. No one player is going to single handedly beat a defense as good as the Celtics.

What?!?!? You honestly believe that MJ would struggle against the 08 Celtic defense?:lol:lmao:lol:lmao:lol

MJ had to deal with the Bad Boy Piston D as well as the Rug Tug Pat riley Knicks team both of which were known to knock teeth out when someone dared to drive the ball to the basket!

When did you start watching pro hoops? :rolleyes

[spurms]

it's amazing how a dumb fakers fan would do that, if you watched jordan play prior to his first retirement, he guard the opposing teams point guard from the get go, and switch to their main perimeter threat, pippen plays the low post at the arc and trap most of the time, pippen is not quick enough to stop the premier slashers but what he did was play good help defense, after his comback jordan lost a step, but still average more steals then kobe, and still able to keep within an inch of his man all the time, jordan also had a quick first step, quicker then kobe ever had, that's what make him so unguardable on offense, till you actually watched the early bulls games, stfu. Jordan plays defense with tenacity, the way he keeps in front of his man, and helping from the weakside, it's call awareness, both on offense and defense, he just knows how to play the game period, and read his opponents better then kobe. Lebron actually did well as the series progressed, jordan would have got it going from the start, and would have averaged what kobe did in game 2throughout the series.

[Spur-Addict]

LMAO!!! Laker fans are resting all their hope on the defensive skills of Andrew "Ship his as out" Bynum.

Keep thinking that, D&C if it helps you sleep better at night.

Your sig is hilarious.

[m33p0]

What?!?!? You honestly believe that MJ would struggle against the 08 Celtic defense?:lol:lmao:lol:lmao:lol

MJ had to deal with the Bad Boy Piston D as well as the Rug Tug Pat riley Knicks team both of which were known to knock teeth out when someone dared to drive the ball to the basket!

When did you start watching pro hoops? :rolleyes
not to mention hand-check.

[Spur-Addict]

Yes the Lakers would still be losing if MJ swapped places with Kobe.

:lmao......:lmao.........:lmao........:nope....... :lmao.......:lmao.....nap time.....:sleep.....wakes up to eat...logs on....reads thread again and statement......:wow......:lmao......:lmao.....

[SenorSpur]

I've stated this in other threads and I'm gonna keep zinging it.

MJ would've NEVER, EVER quit on this team the way Kobe quit on the Fakers, during a crucial Game 7 versus the Suns 2 seasons ago. I don't care the circumstances or situation. MJ has too much pride and competitive will to ever quit at anything. Kobe, apparently stung by criticism that he was shooting the ball too much, decided the time was right for some "get back". So he quit. INEXCUSABLE!

For that action, he should've never been mentioned in the same breath as MJ.