View Full Version : And the moral of the story, kids . . .
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 08:35 AM
. . . is when you're Commissioner of a Major Sports League, don't publicly yearn for a "Dream Matchup" of two specific teams for the championship. It can lead to bad things if you don't have an unimpeachable aura of complete impartiality, whether you're actually guilty of anything or not.
MoSpur
06-13-2008, 08:39 AM
I cannot stand Stern. Dude looks very upset. I guess he'll learn. Next year it will be the Spurs vs Bucks in the Finals.
CavsSuperFan
06-13-2008, 08:49 AM
Didn't this Celtics team squeak by Atlanta?
Didn't this Celtics team squeak by Cleveland?
Didn't this Celtics team lose a home game to Detroit?
The only way to fix this is for the East to play the East for the NBA Championship….The West should have some sort of hostess Twinkie championship thing…:bang
1Parker1
06-13-2008, 08:55 AM
Ironically, after all the drama of the Western Conference this season and all the "Leastern" Conference jokes, it's going to be a Eastern Conference team winning it all. That makes it the 3rd time in the past 6 years.
resistanze
06-13-2008, 09:00 AM
Ironically, after all the drama of the Western Conference this season and all the "Leastern" Conference jokes, it's going to be a Eastern Conference team winning it all. That makes it the 3rd time in the past 6 years.
Very true. The Spurs are the only Western Conference team in to a championship on the past 5 years. At the end of the day, only one team can win the championship. That's why I find all this realigning conferences talk a joke because one conference is a stronger stretch.
1Parker1
06-13-2008, 09:11 AM
Well, I think there is some truth to it. The WC as a whole is better than the East. And the playoffs are generally a long and grueling process. You saw what happened to the Spurs with just the 3rd seed, they had to go through 3 VERY tough teams just to get a chance to make it to the Finals.
Spurminator
06-13-2008, 09:48 AM
David Stern has never shied away from discussing the business side of certain teams playing deep in the Playoffs. Compounding problems, the sports media (and subsequently sports fans) seem to be infinitely more interested in ratings potential for certain NBA matchups than any other sport. I may be missing it, but it doesn't seem like there's ever this much discussion on whether certain matchups would be good or bad for the NFL or MLB.
Combine all of this with a game that, by nature, is simultaneously the most difficult to call and the most easily influenced BY calls, and you've got a recipe for tantalizing conspiracy speculation.
I haven't seen enough to make me buy into the claims of a disgraced official on his way to prison, but I also have no sympathy for Stern and the NBA for a mess they have partially (or, pending the results of an investigation, completely) brought upon themselves.
MoSpur
06-13-2008, 09:50 AM
I give Boston tons of credit. I didn't think they had it in them. They surprised me.
Kermit
06-13-2008, 09:53 AM
I give Boston tons of credit. I didn't think they had it in them. They surprised me.
Said the same thing about Marco Jaric.
Very true. The Spurs are the only Western Conference team in to a championship on the past 5 years. At the end of the day, only one team can win the championship. That's why I find all this realigning conferences talk a joke because one conference is a stronger stretch.
Regrouping actually makes sense. you think the celtics will make it to the finals if they would go through some of the teams in the west. They might get out of the first round coz they will still play an eastern team coz of seedings but after the lesser teams are eliminated, are they gonna survive better teams that what they're used to play during the regular season.
MiamiHeat
06-13-2008, 10:06 AM
lol
BiZNicK
06-13-2008, 10:08 AM
lol...backfired on Stern...so much fail.
SenorSpur
06-13-2008, 10:22 AM
Stern is an arrogant prick. I love the NBA and am hopeful that the integrity of the sport previals, but I'm really starting to cool this pompous jerk of a Commissoner. If this scandal does worsen, I hope he goes out with it.
Harry Callahan
06-13-2008, 10:30 AM
Lakers vs Lakers was what Stern said. Whatever. That bunch in LA deserves what's being shoved down their throat right now.
LA wasn't ready. Clearly they had some help to get to the finals in the first place.
SenorSpur
06-13-2008, 10:34 AM
Lakers vs Lakers was what Stern said. Whatever. That bunch in LA deserves what's being shoved down their throat right now.
LA wasn't ready. Clearly they had some help to get to the finals in the first place.
Wonder if Stern still favors that LA vs LA matchup now?
The Fakers clearly arrived ahead of schedule. Who knows? They should be much better defensively and offensively when Bynum comes back. But it's not a given. Maybe this team endures the same NBA Finals hangover that the Mavs have endured. Maybe they don't come out of this funk - even after Bynum comes back next year. Who knows?
curtismedellin
06-13-2008, 10:46 AM
Does Stern come off as some type of Italian Don in all this?? I mean some of his quotes:
"But I must say as honestly and as directly as I can, that if you have a criminal in your midst who's prepared to engage in criminal activity, whether it's the NBA, the CIA, the FBI, the armed forces, police departments or whatever, you've got a problem "
"I don't know, but I do know there were questions about him ... and as I said earlier, the only person now being sentenced for a crime is Mr. Donaghy"
"On behalf of my officials, I'd like to tell you that they don't engage in the criminal conduct of which Mr. Donaghy has accused them of,"
And finally...
Donaghy claimed this week in a court filing that two "company men" worked that game, in which the Los Angeles Lakers used a huge free-throw advantage in the fourth quarter to avoid elimination against Sacramento.
"The allegations about that are incorrect," Stern said.
I'm just waiting for infamous "I made him an offer he could not refuse."
Ed Helicopter Jones
06-13-2008, 12:27 PM
The league is losing its credibility, and once that happens casual fans (and some die-hard fans) will tend to pay a lot less attention to it.
1Parker1
06-13-2008, 12:40 PM
The constant whining by the players during the game and the league continuing to let a coach like Phil Jackson and players like Sasha Vuijic go on record in their post game comments about the refereeing in the games do not help the cause.
SenorSpur
06-13-2008, 12:44 PM
Fakers, along with Jerry West, clearly angered the Basketball Gods. Now they're paying the penalty.
shelshor
06-13-2008, 12:50 PM
Does Stern come off as some type of Italian Don in all this?? I mean some of his quotes:
"But I must say as honestly and as directly as I can, that if you have a criminal in your midst who's prepared to engage in criminal activity, whether it's the NBA, the CIA, the FBI, the armed forces, police departments or whatever, you've got a problem "
"I don't know, but I do know there were questions about him ... and as I said earlier, the only person now being sentenced for a crime is Mr. Donaghy"
"On behalf of my officials, I'd like to tell you that they don't engage in the criminal conduct of which Mr. Donaghy has accused them of,"
And finally...
Donaghy claimed this week in a court filing that two "company men" worked that game, in which the Los Angeles Lakers used a huge free-throw advantage in the fourth quarter to avoid elimination against Sacramento.
"The allegations about that are incorrect," Stern said.
I'm just waiting for infamous "I made him an offer he could not refuse."
It has more the spirit of the then gradually unfolding Watergate cover up/scandal
I gonna have to dredge the mamory banks & come up with some of Tricky Dick Nixon's old quotes
whottt
06-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Stern was an idiot for letting Crawford getting anywhere near a Spursgame...Crawford lost the right to be viewed as an impartial official with Tim Duncan and the Spurs last season.
Stern deserves every bit of the doubt he gets...what an arrogant ass.
As for Bavetta...this guy has been universally reveiled as a Ref for a decade now...he's not a good ref, he should have been fired long ago, and the fact that he not only isn't fired, but seems to wind up reffing the most pivotal NBA games year in an year out...
Again, Stern deserves this.
And Salvator, the truly incompetent ref, needs to be following Crawford and Bavetta out the door.
I'd say about 90% of all suspicious NBA games involve Bavetta or Salvator. Crawford is something else...he's a better ref than the other two(as in he doesn't blow as many calls), but he's also long been viewed as hot tempered guy that is easily angered...
The sooner these 3 are gone, the better.
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 04:57 PM
It has more the spirit of the then gradually unfolding Watergate cover up/scandal
I gonna have to dredge the mamory banks & come up with some of Tricky Dick Nixon's old quotes
I've been having the same thoughts. Stern is positively Nixonian in his non-denial denials.
Ginofan
06-13-2008, 04:58 PM
The fact that we know the names of so many officials should say something.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:01 PM
Ironically, after all the drama of the Western Conference this season and all the "Leastern" Conference jokes, it's going to be a Eastern Conference team winning it all. That makes it the 3rd time in the past 6 years.
Nothing ironic about it. The Celetics had a much easier road to the finals. Eastern conference teams that have a title shot don't go through the same wear and tear that the teams from the West go through. Its pretty damn uneven at this time.
Nothing ironic about it. The Celetics had a much easier road to the finals. Eastern conference teams that have a title shot don't go through the same wear and tear that the teams from the West go through. Its pretty damn uneven at this time.
The teams they played were worse, except for the Pistons and maybe teh Cavs, but they had a more grueling process.
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 05:16 PM
Can you imagine if the Celtics had played the way they did in the first round against a Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, or Denver?
Can you imagine if the Celtics had played the way they did in the first round against a Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, or Denver?
The problem with the Hawks were that they more were more athletic and could run and exposed the Celtics weakness, sort of the same thing with GS/Dallas last year.
The Celtics would sweep the Yao-less rockets, denver, probably phoneix, maybe win 5 or 6 against Dallas.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:32 PM
Thats bullshit. The Celtics took it easier and still got by. And thats just in the playoffs. Nevermind how they didn't have shit to play for while the entire west was battling each and every night.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Let me put it to you this way. Is Manu broken down by the confrence finals if the Spurs play in the East???
Regular season? yes west had it incredibly tough with a 50 win team not making the po's (GS), showed how tough it was, but the celtics in the PO's struggled pretty badly as well against the hawks and the cavs. The west's PO's series were all over around 5 games or so, the hornets series was the only one that went 7.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:37 PM
They struggled because they were taking it easy not because the Hawks were tough. Their series was 7 games and there is NO way that series was tougher than the one the Spurs/Suns played.
Let me put it to you this way. Is Manu broken down by the confrence finals if the Spurs play in the East???
We could have prevented that. Manu had to carry the team in Feburary all by himself beause of injuries to TD and TP, if the spurs rested him in the RS and were like a 6th or 7th seed, manu would have been rested. But yeah the west's RS is pretty greuling/ tough
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 05:38 PM
The problem with the Hawks were that they more were more athletic and could run and exposed the Celtics weakness, sort of the same thing with GS/Dallas last year.
Yeah, I didn't see the Cavs doing very much running.
The Celtics would sweep the Yao-less rockets, denver, probably phoneix, maybe win 5 or 6 against Dallas.
Not if they played as crappy and ball-less as they did against the Hawks. Denver is dumb enough that they still probably would have lost. But Phoenix , Dallas, and Houston would have toe dat weak sh!t up.
They struggled because they were taking it easy not because the Hawks were tough. Their series was 7 games and there is NO way that series was tougher than the one the Spurs/Suns played.
No one can really say that unless if you were a part of the celtics team or hawks team to find out that if the celtics were going easy on the hawks.
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 05:39 PM
Let me put it to you this way. Is Manu broken down by the confrence finals if the Spurs play in the East???
Bonner, maybe, after the first round.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:40 PM
No one can really say that unless if you were a part of the celtics team or hawks team to find out that if the celtics were going easy on the hawks.
LOL yeah OK. I'm pretty sure most people who follow the NBA realize that if the Celtics just slept on the Hawks and nothing more.
Yeah, I didn't see the Cavs doing very much running.
Not if they played as crappy and ball-less as they did against the Hawks. Denver is dumb enough that they still probably would have lost. But Phoenix , Dallas, and Houston would have toe dat weak sh!t up.
The cavs had lebron james.
phoenix doesn't play and D. The celtics play the best d in the NBA. Shaq would be mismatched and who would contain pierce and allen at the same time?
Housten doesn't have yao ming. They would lose to the celtics. They'd shut down mcgrady.
Dallas is the only tha might have won, but dallas was playing incredibly shitty so who knows abut that.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:41 PM
Bonner, maybe, after the first round.
Yeah, Damon may have played as much as Tony.
LOL yeah OK. I'm pretty sure most people who follow the NBA realize that if the Celtics just slept on the Hawks and nothing more.
Actually people who watched that series were saying the exact opposite. From fans to analysts.
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 05:43 PM
The cavs had lebron james.
LeBron James? THE LeBron James?
Just hypothetically, say, how would the Spurs do against LeBron James? And, just for the sake of argument, let's say he had a better team that what he had this year?
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:44 PM
LeBron James? THE LeBron James?
Just hypothetically, say, how would the Spurs do against LeBron James. And for the sake of argument, let's say he had a better team that what he had this year?
:lmao
LeBron James? THE LeBron James?
Just hypothetically, say, how would the Spurs do against LeBron James? And, just for the sake of argument, let's say he had a better team that what he had this year?
the spurs are hella good at D. the spurs can shut down james, while shutting down everybody else as well, where as the celtics can only shut down LBJ and take the risk of lettign the other player shoot some shots, when that happend LBJ went crazy because the cetlics had to play D on the other cav p layers.
ShoogarBear
06-13-2008, 05:52 PM
the spurs are hella good at D. the spurs can shut down james, while shutting down everybody else as well, where as the celtics can only shut down LBJ and take the risk of lettign the other player shoot some shots, when that happend LBJ went crazy because the cetlics had to play D on the other cav p layers.
If I read this correctly, you just said the 2007 Spurs >> 2008 Celtics. Even though the Celtics won what 8-10 games more than last year's Spurs team. Which I agree with, but which isn't necessarily the point.
THe point is, are you seriously trying to argue that 37-45 Atlanta was a mighty hidden power this year that would have given all the teams in the West a 7-game series? Hell, I think even Denver would have swept Atlanta.
MannyIsGod
06-13-2008, 05:54 PM
Seriously, I just want to know if anyone thinks that the Spurs would have had one broken down Manu by the time the ECF rolled around if they played in the East? Anyone?
Seriously, I just want to know if anyone thinks that the Spurs would have had one broken down Manu by the time the ECF rolled around if they played in the East? Anyone?
Manu would be 100% if the played the east.
Manu woudl be 100% in the west as well if TP and TD did not get injured during the season.
If I read this correctly, you just said the 2007 Spurs >> 2008 Celtics. Even though the Celtics won what 8-10 games more than last year's Spurs team. Which I agree with, but which isn't necessarily the point.
THe point is, are you seriously trying to argue that 37-45 Atlanta was a mighty hidden power this year that would have given all the teams in the West a 7-game series? Hell, I think even Denver would have swept Atlanta.
The 2007 Spurs are >>>> than this years celtics. The spurs record was in the west and had to play tougher teams on a consistent basis, where as this years celtics had to play easy teams.
to the bold:I'm just going by some people were saying which I agree with (some fans and some analysts were saying) was that the hawks gave the celtics matchup problems. if the celtics played the bobcats i would not be suprised if the bobcats won because the cats owned the celts in the RS due to matchup problems. A similiar incident is the 07 mavs vs 07 warriors match up problems
Aggie Hoopsfan
06-13-2008, 06:02 PM
Seriously, I just want to know if anyone thinks that the Spurs would have had one broken down Manu by the time the ECF rolled around if they played in the East? Anyone?
Agreed, Pop even said it at the time that he had to play Manu all those minutes back in the spring to even insure we'd get to the playoffs.
mrspurs
06-13-2008, 06:04 PM
Stern is an arrogant prick. I love the NBA and am hopeful that the integrity of the sport previals, but I'm really starting to cool this pompous jerk of a Commissoner. If this scandal does worsen, I hope he goes out with it.
his day is coming, and he knows it:flag:
jmard5
06-13-2008, 06:42 PM
David Stern has never shied away from discussing the business side of certain teams playing deep in the Playoffs. Compounding problems, the sports media (and subsequently sports fans) seem to be infinitely more interested in ratings potential for certain NBA matchups than any other sport. I may be missing it, but it doesn't seem like there's ever this much discussion on whether certain matchups would be good or bad for the NFL or MLB.
Exactly... like the Heat and Laker games for Christmas?
whottt
06-13-2008, 07:02 PM
Seriously, I just want to know if anyone thinks that the Spurs would have had one broken down Manu by the time the ECF rolled around if they played in the East? Anyone?
IMO Manu never healed from the injury he got at the end of the regular season. He j never looked quite right, and he seemed to lack explosiveness for the entire playoff run. So I think at some point barring time off to heal, he would have wound up breaking down like he did against the Lakers.
Who knows...Pop may not have brought him back as quickly in the east, or he might not have had to play as much without rest...but I think it was inevitable that he was going to breakdown sooner or later since he never got fully healed to begin with.
I really don't think what happened to Manu had much to do with the Lakers...but what was wrong with him had everything to do with them beating the Spurs.
I didn't even think we needed a healthy manu to win against the lakers. We just played horrendous D on Kobe. Better D on Kobe would have resulted in a game 1, 4, and 5 win.
T Park
06-13-2008, 07:29 PM
I didn't even think we needed a healthy manu to win against the lakers. We just played horrendous D on Kobe. Better D on Kobe would have resulted in a game 1, 4, and 5 win.
THey forced him to shoot long jumpers, thats all you can do.
A healthy ginobili getting 25 a night instead of 9 doesn't change things?
ooook..
1Parker1
06-13-2008, 07:33 PM
Well, I think maybe what E20 is saying is that the Celtics this season had the first seed in the East. When you have the best record, you get the right to an easier road in the playoffs. Spurs would have trampled, perhaps even swept both the Hawks and the Cavs.
Meanwhile, if you think about it, if the Spurs hadn't lost gimme games to the likes of Memphis or Bobcats this season, they could very well have had the first seed in the West. And if they did, I do think Manu and the rest of the Spurs would have retained a lot more energy and had 10 times the easier road to the Finals. Going through the Nuggets and the Utah Jazz isn't that much harder than going through the Hawks and the Cavs.
Of course, to Manny and Shoog's point, if the Spurs didn't have to battle it out 4 times against the top WC teams in the regular season, this would all be moot.
I think the most important moral, at least for the Spurs, this season they learned is that with the Western Conference being as tough as it is, it's now more important than ever to grab the top seed and HCA in the playoffs. The usual "coasting" the Spurs do in the regular season, somewhat backfired on them this season, I think.
Reverse positions and I think the Spurs could have easily gone through the Nuggets and Jazz and then be well rested to face whoever else in the Conference Finals. Meanwhile, I'm not sure how the Lakers would have fared with the third seed if they would have had to go through the Suns and the Hornets. IMO, we'd probably be looking at a completely different Western Conference Finals matchup.
N.Y. Johnny
06-13-2008, 07:59 PM
The fact that we know the names of so many officials should say something.
Going back to Stern and the NBA state of affairs, he has to be blamed for the bad perception of the league now. He is just such an arrogant pompous ass that won't admit there is a problem and he will do nothing.
Ginofan is absolutely right here on this one point, which is a huge problem. I mean those of us that are NFL fans we can't name 4 referees if we tried!
I challenge you to. Also, we're never bummed about hearing someone in the NFL like Ed Hochuli, only reason I know this NFL ref is because he's the buff guy, is reffing the Monday Night Redskins vs Dallas game, ohh Dallas is screwed.
This is precisely how assenine it was to keep Joey Crawford in the league after that idiotic display of jackassery with Tim Duncan. THEN the beautiful part is in a critical Playoff Series...involving San Antonio, THERE IS CRAWFORD!!! WOW. Stern you deserve every bit of criticism you get and you should be ridden out on a rail.
The point is no other league in Major Pro Sports has officials known as well as players as the NBA does and thats a big problem.
THey forced him to shoot long jumpers, thats all you can do.
A healthy ginobili getting 25 a night instead of 9 doesn't change things?
ooook..
Not even long jumpers, most of his points came from inside the arc. The celtics are playing him much more smarter double teaming him. If the spurs contained kobe better we win game 1, samething with game 3, andsamething with game 5. Kobe got some ridicously easy shots those games. Spurs win in 5.
ManuTim_best of Fwiendz
06-13-2008, 08:32 PM
Not even long jumpers, most of his points came from inside the arc. The celtics are playing him much more smarter double teaming him. If the spurs contained kobe better we win game 1, samething with game 3, andsamething with game 5. Kobe got some ridicously easy shots those games. Spurs win in 5.
Yeah all those dropped leads had to do with "hoping to weather" Kobe and it resulted in giving him all the looks he could get.
We held the team to lower PPG where people say "we played great D! it was jut the Offense" but it masked the scoring runs that Kobe led to narrow the gap. It was just ridiculous how we repeated the mistake more than once. "oh no here comes Kobe" in the third and fourth every single time, and yet Pop never tried doubles or forcing the other guys to beat us. Boston exposed the Spurs Defensive gameplan.
I remember Ginobili coming over to help Bruce once in the series, and that was in game 4, when we almost stole the game with the Barry three and got an actual stop in crunch time on Kobe.
Spurs thought they could hold the other guys trade baskets with Kobe. :lol
WTF? Kobe shot what, 55- 60 percent? There was nothing we could do? Complete Bullshit. Jazz and Celtics did a better job on him holding him to lower FG's.
Pop got outcoached.
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