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ducks
07-16-2003, 09:16 PM
Are the Lakers too good for their own good?
by Larry Beil
July 16, 2003

It's the middle of July, and by all accounts, time for David Stern to start polishing up the old championship trophy for delivery to the Hall of Fame Club, also known as the Los Angeles Lakers. By adding Karl Malone and Gary Payton to a starting lineup that already included Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant, the Lakers will undoubtedly steamroll over the rest of the NBA and slam-dunk their way to the ring ceremony. Or will they?

This NBA offseason has been like the Cold War, with two superpowers adding so much firepower they could blow up the world over and over again. The Lakers get Payton; the Nets retain Jason Kidd. The Lakers get Malone; the Nets get Alonzo Mourning.

Granted, the Lakers' foursome might be the best collection of talent since Hugh Hefner started collecting bunnies, but stockpiling talent doesn't necessarily translate into championships. If that truly were the case, the Portland Trail Blazers would lead the league in wins every year instead of arrests.

Speaking of which, any conversation about the Lakers' next dynasty comes with the assumption that whatever Bryant was doing with that concierge in Colorado, he won't be watching the playoffs next year in an orange jumpsuit.

Beyond his legal problems, Bryant also will have to deal with a Payton problem. Payton has been a star in the NBA for a long time. He was the heart and soul of the Sonics for 13 years, but neither his heart nor soul did much for the Milwaukee Bucks when he joined them at the end of last season. Surely, suiting up in purple and gold will appeal to Payton's psyche more than George Karl's terminally ill Bucks, but I wonder about chemistry on the court.

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Payton loves to control the game -- Kobe lives to control it, the ball almost welded to his hands on key possessions. Notice how when Shaq got into foul trouble in recent seasons, you could almost see the light go on inside Bryant's head. It was his time to single-handedly save the day: Have no fear, Kobe's here! How does Kobe deal with Payton controlling the offense, dictating whom gets shots with the game on the line? I see friction and frustration just waiting to happen.

Add the Mailman to the mix, and now you have another guy who is used to being the focal point of the offense. How does he fit into the triangle offense after a lifetime of running the pick-and-roll with John Stockton?

And that's just the offense. The Lakers still haven't answered the question that stumped them in the second round of the playoffs against the Spurs: Can anybody around here guard Tim Duncan? Malone may have the biceps of the Hulk, but do the Lakers really expect the 40-year-old Mailman to deliver defensively in crunch time against the two-time league MVP? Or do rookies Brian Cook and Luke Walton get that job? Yikes.

L.A.'s Fearsome Foursome have great resumes. Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton have combined to score more than 86,000 career points. But as the Lakers may learn next season, too much of a good thing may not be such a good thing. scoop (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=lb-lakers&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Adrienne18
07-16-2003, 09:19 PM
The only problem I have with that is the reference to the Nets as a superpower...they're good, but wouldn't beat any of the top 5 or 6 teams in the West in a 7 game series.

And I think the Lakers will have some of the same qualities as the Blazers...talent loaded roster, lots of problems. The difference is three out of the four of the star players are veterans, and I think they'll get it together (unfortunately).

My two cents...

DuffMcCartney
07-16-2003, 09:23 PM
Yeah I agree with my love about the Nets.....but not about the Lakers....their moves dont scare me one bit....yeah they may be veterans, but man that gives them even more of a right to bitch...they think its owed to them for being in the league so long.

2Cleva
07-16-2003, 09:47 PM
Having a coach that can handle them is key. Thats nothing like the Blazers. Them taking less money (money = respect) shows a lot. They know whose team it is.

The bottom line is winning. They win 65+, there won't be any problems. And come playoff time, they're going to do anything to win.

And the problem against SA wasn't not stopping Tim, it was that no one outside of a hurt Kobe and out of shape Shaq could even get their own shot off. Popovich took a play out of Jackson's book and beat LA with athleticsm on D and the ability to create on offense. LA couldn't do either.

TwoHandJam
07-16-2003, 10:27 PM
Them taking less money (money = respect) shows a lot. They know whose team it is.

This type of thinking is flawed. Taking less money is a one-time gesture. There's not a lot of effort involved and the sacrifice isn't that great since these guys are multimillionaires anyhow. The money doesn't matter too much to them anymore. It's sort of like comparing pulling out your checkbook and writing a check to someone as a birthday gift instead of working your butt off shopping around for ideas. Not alot of effort involved.

Now, playing an 82 game season as a role player when you've played your entire career as "the man", that's difficult. That's the part akin to "working your butt off shopping around for ideas" in my birthday gift analogy. These guys have enormous egos and are very set in their ways. They may defer and try to remain professional for a while but old habits die hard and a lot of what is done on the court for these players is instinctual. They are going to have to make a concerted effort to consciously think about acting as role players every minute they're on the court. I believe it will prove to be very taxing and frustrating for them IMO. When 4 different people want the ball in crunch time, someone will inevitably be very unhappy.

T Park Num 9
07-16-2003, 10:29 PM
agree dos manos

and that one person i garun fuckin tee will be Gary Payton.

DuffMcCartney
07-16-2003, 10:51 PM
beat LA with athleticsm on D and the ability to create on offense.

Right now it doesnt look like they improved their athleticism on D, maybe in the creating offense but I stress maybe because the Spurs are a great defensive team.

2Cleva
07-17-2003, 12:50 AM
Great defensive team but there will be a noticeable difference between Nesterovic and Robinson.

LA's defense will improve dramatically, especially on the ball. Bryant and Payton in the backcourt is tough for anyone. Malone, even with his tricks, is avg on D at the 4 but there will be a lot more pressure on the ball.

But if Shaq gets his lazy self in shape....

Adrienne18
07-17-2003, 01:08 AM
If he decides he loves basketball more than donuts. Fat chance. No pun intended.:wink

MissAllThat
07-17-2003, 02:33 AM
Are they too good for their own good? I hope so, but we won't know that till the season starts, or maybe even until next summer when we see what they got because of their "great" off-season.

Adrienne18
07-17-2003, 10:23 AM
MissAllThat, you're right, there is really no way to tell as of now what'll happen. One can only hope that the *stuff* will hit the fat when the season starts and they'll implode as a team.:angel Anything until then is pure speculation.

Jimcs50
07-17-2003, 10:36 AM
People are forgetting that Kobe will not be playing bball for LA this year. he will be in prison or on trial.

CrazyOne
07-17-2003, 10:42 AM
Jim, have you seen any hardcopy on that? I've heard a number of non-sports talks shows claim that, even caught a short blurb while switching channels from Imus in the Morning, but I haven't heard any full explanations yet.

Adrienne18
07-17-2003, 10:45 AM
*oops*

Adrienne18
07-17-2003, 10:46 AM
I'm willing to bet Kobe will be playing basketball next year, and with the Lakers, not a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits. No matter what they say, he'll get special treatment because of who he is...and we dont' even know for sure that he's guilty. What it sounds like now is that he did something immoral (cheating on his wife), but not something criminal (raping the girl).

And by the way, they can't know anything, because they're not even making a decision of whether to press charges until Friday.

adidas11
07-17-2003, 12:44 PM
2 key issues:

1) The most important one. Shaq. Even though Shaq had a strong year last season, averaging 27 and 11, he must be better this upcoming season. He MUST be in MVP form, and healthy and in shape from day 1. He must be a dominant force defensively. Despite all of the Lakers other potential issues, Shaq regaining 2000-2001 form is the more important issue.

2) Can Payton and Malone accept their "roles"? This of course, remains to be seen. For some reason, I see Malong accepting a role player type position on the team rather than Payton. The Lakers are used to playing a certain style of ball, where either Shaq dominates on the inside, Kobe dominates on the perimeter, or both. Payton must NOT rock the boat in this situation. Simply direct the offense, lock down his man on defense (to add to the Laker's lacking perimeter defense) and play with energy. I think Payton CAN adapt to this role, but I'm not 100% convinced yet.


And for any clown who thinks the Lakers aren't improved over last year, they're smoking crack. Especially if they manage to re-sign Horry.

ducks
07-17-2003, 01:11 PM
the lakers improved


however addias you mentioned mailman and gp acccepting their roles.

I think that is key.

but you forgot kobe. will he he let those players take 10 of his shots away from him and be happy with that.

what happens when phil uses gp or the mailman instead of kobe when the game is on the line?

2Cleva
07-17-2003, 01:16 PM
Shaq and Kobe avgd 42 of the 80 shots per game for the Lakers. There are still plenty of shots for GP and Malone. Plus, the young guys (George, Rush, Cook, Walton, Pargo) don't expect to shoot. Fisher is the one who is most likely to pout though and wouldn't be suprised if he's dealt.

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-17-2003, 01:20 PM
the Lakers starting 5 is gonna be awesome...anyone who thinks "chemistry" is gonna be their downfall is just whistling past the graveyard...the only way to beat this team is gonna be by hanging in close with the starting unit and then outscoring their bench...I think the Spurs might just have the bench guns to do this...

ducks
07-17-2003, 01:22 PM
kobe may not even be laying he may be in jail


I think kobe could be key. how will all this offcourt stuff effect his game? will he want to prove that it did not and try to put up super numbers?

2Cleva
07-17-2003, 01:41 PM
ducks - Kobe has responded positively to every issue so far. No reason for that to change. Can't see him going to jail when its been almost 3 weeks since the incident and he still hasn't been charged.

ducks
07-17-2003, 01:50 PM
maybe they do not want to press charges tell they know for sure they can convict him. it takes lots of evidence especially against a super star