Spurs actual free agents and money off the books

[DPG21920]

So what is the actual list of Spurs free agents? It was Barry, Finley, Horry, DerMarr Johnson, Damon Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas and Jaque Vaughn. I think Barry is off the list now because of the trade, but are the rest correct? How much money does that give the Spurs this off-season?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Barry is under contract for another year.

Spurs have, I believe, about $9.8M in money this offseason.

~5.5M from the MLE.
~2.2M from the LLE.
~1.7M from the Beno trade.
~500K from the Thomas and Scola trade combined

Regarding the players, the Spurs never really got more money from them being a free agent.

[DPG21920]

Ya, but don't the salaries of the players that are free agents come off the books as well? So would they not in fact, if they let everyone of their free agents walk, have:
Finley: $3,103,000
Horry: $3,630,000
DerMarr: $27,198
Stoudamire: $335,442
Vaughn: 1,219,590
Thomas: $8,091,188

For a total of $16,406,418.

[DPG21920]

So out of those hopefully we only re-sign Thomas and Vaughn. Probably combined for 3 million. So that leaves us with spots to fill for Horry, Finley, DerMarr and Stoudamire with $13,000,000. Ian comes up to fill in for Horry, so that costs us nothing because he already has a contract. So now we have $13,000,000 to fill in for Finley, DerMarr and Stoudamire. Plus the MLE, LLE, plus the Beno/Kurt money. I am of course making an assumption that likely Vaughn will get the veterans minimum contract and Kurt will get around 2.5 million. I know the Spurs don't "get money" from their free agents, but they can spend what I have outlined and be at the same cap level as they were this year, correct?

[Mr. Body]

They're already over the salary cap. Even with guys coming off.

[DPG21920]

They are over the cap, but not in luxury tax. So they can spend the exact amount of money they have in their expiring contracts and maintain the level they were at as well as using the MLE and LLE to add to the cap without paying luxury tax correct?

[Mr. Body]

They are over the cap, but not in luxury tax. So they can spend the exact amount of money they have in their expiring contracts and maintain the level they were at as well as using the MLE and LLE to add to the cap without paying luxury tax correct?

The can spend the MLE and the LLE. That's it.

[DPG21920]

The can spend the MLE and the LLE. That's it.

I am confused, sorry if it is annoying you but I am just trying to get some clarification. You are saying that with the expiring contracts the Spurs have coming off the books (16 million) they can only spend the MLE and LLE if they want to stay out of the luxury tax? So they can not sign players for the exact amount totaling the expiring contracts if they wish to be under the luxury tax?

[Mr. Body]

Exactly. That's what the salary cap is. If you are below the salary cap, you can freely spend the amount that will take you to the cap. If you are above the cap, no matter how many contracts come off the book (unless they take you under the cap), you only get the MLE and LLE, plus there are sometimes restrictions on those.

[Kindergarten Cop]

The can spend the MLE and the LLE. That's it.

I thought that we could resign our own FAs without using the exceptions. Please forgive me if I am wrong.

Edit: I believe that I am referring to the Bird Rights and I see that the only FAs that we have that fit into this category are Robert Horry and Michael Finley.

[DPG21920]

Ya, but the Spurs were over the cap by 11,000,000 or so this year, but they did not have to pay luxury tax on it. Weren't there rules that allowed for teams to be over the cap for certain years and not have to pay the new dollar-for-dollar luxury tax. So, then wouldn't the Spurs be able to get back to that point by spending the 16 million that just came off the books to fill the spots left by the free agents while still avoiding luxury tax? Then being able to use exceptions to add to their cap but not have to pay the tax on it?

[Mr. Body]

Ya, but the Spurs were over the cap by 11,000,000 or so this year, but they did not have to pay luxury tax on it. Weren't there rules that allowed for teams to be over the cap for certain years and not have to pay the new dollar-for-dollar luxury tax. So, then wouldn't the Spurs be able to get back to that point by spending the 16 million that just came off the books to fill the spots left by the free agents while still avoiding luxury tax? Then being able to use exceptions to add to their cap but not have to pay the tax on it?

No.

I don't know what you're saying. They can resign their own players. They can use the exceptions on new players. That's it. They can wind up going over the lux tax or not if they want to, depending on what they do.

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs have:

Cap Exceptions
MLE (~$5.5 mil)
LLE (~$1.9 mil)

Trade Exceptions
Beno trade (~$1.9mil)
Scola trade (~$400K)
Thomas trade (~$400K)

Draft Picks
#26
#45
#57

Prior Draft Picks
Robertas Javtokas
Viktor Sanikidze
Sergei Karaulov

And, oh yeah, Ian Mahinmi on the roster already.

[DPG21920]

So the Spurs payroll this year, $67,321,527, that was not in luxury tax territory, that was $11,691,527 over the cap, will have to be at $60,815,109 (this # is the current payroll - the expiring contracts + MLE + LLE + Beno trade + Thomas/Scola trade) in order to avoid luxury tax this coming year. 7 million less?

[Kindergarten Cop]

So the Spurs payroll this year, $67,321,527, that was not in luxury tax territory, that was $11,691,527 over the cap, will have to be at $60,815,109 (this # is the current payroll - the expiring contracts + MLE + LLE + Beno trade + Thomas/Scola trade) in order to avoid luxury tax this coming year. 7 million less?


As it stands, the Spurs current payroll is $57.121M with 10 players signed (we still need a few guys to fill out the roster, which will put us at or over the cap). The Salary Cap is expected to be around $58M. The Luxury Tax threshold should be around $69M. We can use the exceptions to sign FAs up to that threshold to avoid paying a dollar for dollar tax.

[DPG21920]

As it stands, the Spurs current payroll is $57.121M with 10 players signed (we still need a few guys to fill out the roster, which will put us at or over the cap). The Salary Cap is expected to be around $58M. The Luxury Tax threshold should be around $69M. We can use the exceptions to sign FAs up to that threshold to avoid paying a dollar for dollar tax.

Exactly my point. Who cares about the cap, the Spurs do not, they care about the luxury tax. So the Spurs can spend all 16 million dollars that have now cleared because of free agents and even up their payroll by 1 million from what it was this year without paying luxury tax. They will not just have 16 million in expiring contracts but only spend 9.8 million in the off-season. They have 16 million to spend.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, they can "spend" the MLE, LLE, and the amount of the trade exceptions if they found 3 trades to use those exceptions in, as well the contract for their 1st round pick and, of course, as many minimum player exception contracts as possible.

The main restriction this summer won't be the Luxury Tax threshold but rather their length of the contracts they are willing to take on, be it through free agency with their cap exceptions or in a trade with their trade exceptions. This, of coruse, is with an eye to whatever their plan is for the 2010 offseason. Frankly I'd prefer them to max out their options this summer and worry about 2010 in, well, 2010.

[DPG21920]

How do you get 57.12? The Spurs payroll this year was 67,321,527 and the expiring contracts are = to 16,406,418, which gives us a remaining payroll of 50,915,109..
Just click the Spurs and you can see salaries and payrolls
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine

[Holt's Cat]

Contracts have automatic increases every season.

[DPG21920]

Contracts have automatic increases every season.

That is not true. Some contracts are front loaded and some are back loaded. Tim D's contract is going to be less in the future than it is now.

[Holt's Cat]

It's true for TD next season.

Duncan opted for a lower extension in 2010-11.

[Holt's Cat]

Here you go... (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm)

[DPG21920]

I know what it is, I was just saying not all players contracts go up every year. But I like the link.

[Holt's Cat]

2007-08 salaries
Duncan $19.0 mil
Parker $10.5 mil
Ginobili $9.1 mil

2008-09 salaries
Duncan $20.6 mil
Parker $11.6 mil
Ginobili $9.9 mil

$3.5 mil in increases for the big 3 alone.

[SequSpur]

The Spurs are going to only go with 9 players this year. Holt's new plan. I spoke to one of the owners at Sonterra Friday and they said they are tired of losing money and need to gravy train off of Duncan his last few years.

[Brutalis]

Guys, don't forget the annual raising of the cap this summer.............

[Kindergarten Cop]

Guys, don't forget the annual raising of the cap this summer.............

It was $55.6M last year and should raise to about $58M this upcoming season.

[dbestpro]

The key to all of this is the sign and trade. You sign any of our free agents to a one year contract and package them with a trade exception for a guy with 2 or more years left. Camby would be a good example of this. He is due 8 mil for next season. Use the 1.7 mil trade exception, Vaughn's 1.2 mil and sign and trade Horry or Finley for 4.3 mil one year contract. Denver would then cut Horry and would then remove 8 mil from their books at the end of the season. It's not bad for SA because Camby only has two years left on his contract.

[Kori Ellis]

Exactly my point. Who cares about the cap, the Spurs do not, they care about the luxury tax. So the Spurs can spend all 16 million dollars that have now cleared because of free agents and even up their payroll by 1 million from what it was this year without paying luxury tax. They will not just have 16 million in expiring contracts but only spend 9.8 million in the off-season. They have 16 million to spend.

That's not how it works. They only have the ~$9.8 million to spend out in free agency. They can only go beyond that signing their own their own free agents.

They can't just choose to sign $16 million in free agents that aren't theirs. The league doesn't allow it. That's why there is a salary cap.

[dbestpro]

Correction on the exception. It can only be used to sign a player from another team. David Lee of NY makes 1.7 mil so you could trade a pick and the exception to get this guy.

[bigdog]

for those of you that think Vaughn is a FA, he's not. I believe he does have a player option, but he won't opt out.

[Marcus Bryant]

Right. Barry might opt out though.

[DPG21920]

I think we are arguing semantics though. The Spurs as they stand right now have 57 million on the books with 10 players, they will have around 69 million when the season starts.

[Marcus Bryant]

MLE $5.5 mil
LLE $1.9 mil
#26 pick $800K
2 minimum players...$800K

Total...$9 mil (at most), not $12 mil.

[DPG21920]

So your saying our total team salary for next year will be lower than it was this year?

[Marcus Bryant]

So your saying our total team salary for next year will be lower than it was this year?

Could be, given that they have something like $20 mil in expiring contracts (including Barry's original deal + Spannilououous' $2 mil).

[DPG21920]

The Spurs will spend up to the luxury tax limit, which will be 69 million.
Marcus, check my post on the "Camby Watch" thread and tell me what you think...

[Marcus Bryant]

I doubt they go up to the lux tax limit. They'll want to give themselves a buffer for 2008-09 in anticipation of where they'll be for 2009-10.

[DPG21920]

Ya, at this point, unless we get a stud now, I say just be tight-asses try and get a good steal in the draft and wait until 2009-2010 to make a splash. But if we can get a star player and have to go over the luxury tax for one year in order to do so, you have to.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd be somewhat surprised if they use the LLE this summer because of this.

[wisnub]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but does the Spurs the only team in NBA that doing everything that they can to avoid luxury tax, even at the expense of risking losing championship by not having guts to sign another star to help Big 3?
I think Lakers, Boston, they all dont really care going over the salary cap and even luxury tax. Sadly they're in Finals....

Hopefully Spurs want to spend more money to lure decend players to San Antonio. Please God....Amen

[K-State Spur]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but does the Spurs the only team in NBA that doing everything that they can to avoid luxury tax, even at the expense of risking losing championship by not having guts to sign another star to help Big 3?
I think Lakers, Boston, they all dont really care going over the salary cap and even luxury tax. Sadly they're in Finals....


Those are big market teams.

But even then, most teams show some reluctance towards going over the luxury tax.

[T Park]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but does the Spurs the only team in NBA that doing everything that they can to avoid luxury tax, even at the expense of risking losing championship by not having guts to sign another star to help Big 3?
I think Lakers, Boston, they all dont really care going over the salary cap and even luxury tax. Sadly they're in Finals....

Hopefully Spurs want to spend more money to lure decend players to San Antonio. Please God....Amen

The lakers and Boston are in bigger markets.

Do you understand large markets compared to small markets?

[Kori Ellis]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but does the Spurs the only team in NBA that doing everything that they can to avoid luxury tax, even at the expense of risking losing championship by not having guts to sign another star to help Big 3?
I think Lakers, Boston, they all dont really care going over the salary cap and even luxury tax. Sadly they're in Finals....

Hopefully Spurs want to spend more money to lure decend players to San Antonio. Please God....Amen


Spurs are right in the middle of the pack salary-wise. Half the league spent less money than the Spurs this year.

[mrspurs]

meaning no disrepect...all the spurs named mentioned made my tummy sick...horry,finley,barry,vaughn,damon,johnson,tho mas and their salaries stink....this is one horrrible waste of money....no wonder we are not playing anymore....keep kurt get rid of the rest......in a dreamers world of course