Windfall Profits Tax

[101A]

Some points:

* The price of gasoline at the pump is of great concern to many Americans.
* The price of gasoline is a serious anchor on the economy.
* The price of gasoline is being blamed primarily on GW Bush.
* The "Windfall Profits Tax" plays really well on people's selfish, cynical instincts against the oil companies.
* The Windfall Profits Tax WILL add a cost to doing business to the oil companies.
* Any increase in operating expenses is reflected DIRECTLY to the price at the pump.
* The Windfall Profits Tax WILL increase the price of gasoline.
* The Republicans WILL get blamed for the further increase.
* The Democrats will BLAME the Republicans for the increase by citing, in part, the Republican's favoritism of Big Oil by NOT supporting the Windfall Profits Tax.

Politically shrewd, those Democrats.

[Wild Cobra]

Some points:

* The price of gasoline at the pump is of great concern to many Americans.
* The price of gasoline is a serious anchor on the economy.
* The price of gasoline is being blamed primarily on GW Bush.
* The "Windfall Profits Tax" plays really well on people's selfish, cynical instincts against the oil companies.
* The Windfall Profits Tax WILL add a cost to doing business to the oil companies.
* Any increase in operating expenses is reflected DIRECTLY to the price at the pump.
* The Windfall Profits Tax WILL increase the price of gasoline.
* The Republicans WILL get blamed for the further increase.
* The Democrats will BLAME the Republicans for the increase by citing, in part, the Republican's favoritism of Big Oil by NOT supporting the Windfall Profits Tax.

Politically shrewd, those Democrats.
Yep, it's a win-win scenario for the liberal fascists to take control of the oil companies and start corporatism like they want to. All they have done so far with health care is make the prices too. Looks like they will get two large economic blocks in the near future.

[Anti.Hero]

They are democrats. They don't think their garbage ideas through.

Increasing their taxes will help put gas in yo tank son!!! Trust us! How? Don't worry. We are sticking it to the evil rich!

Whitey is screwing whitey the rich whitey. That's all that matters. Sleep better tonight fools. You're rich politicians are trying to get money from the rich corporate guys. Mission Accomplished for the American peopleeee...


That's change you can believe in! :bking

[boutons_]

Way too complicated.

If the oilcos had been neutral players, simply obtaining and supplying oil and its products, then a windfall profits tax makes no sense.

but oilcos were the prime movers behind the scenes for going into Iraq on taxpayer debt, which the oilcos will not pay, while intending to ripoff oil from the Iraqis. They should be penalized.

Also, the oilcos have secretly funded all kinds of think tanks to deny global warming and its causes since the non-oil fuel of any significant contribution, and big drops in demand, would hurt their $Bs in profits.

Of course, Exxon fought like hell and won to avoid responsibility for Exxon Valdez.

So I see the windfall profits tax as a penalty for the oilcos operating in bad faith, not because they're making too much money.

WC's concerned about the hypothetical, future Dem fascists before they take office, but totally ignores the Repug fascism of the past 7 years.

[johnsmith]

Way too complicated.


Then shut the fuck up.

[Mr. Peabody]

Way too complicated.

If the oilcos had been neutral players, simply obtaining and supplying oil and its products, then a windfall profits tax makes no sense.

but oilcos were the prime movers behind the scenes for going into Iraq on taxpayer debt, which the oilcos will not pay, while intending to ripoff oil from the Iraqis. They should be penalized.

Also, the oilcos have secretly funded all kinds of think tanks to deny global warming and its causes since the non-oil fuel of any significant contribution, and big drops in demand, would hurt their $Bs in profits.

Course Exxon fought like hell and won to avoid responsibility for Exxon Valdez.

So I see the windfall profits tax as a penalty for the oilcos operating in bad faith, not because they're making too much money.



This is all a straw man. Are you actually arguing that we should impose a windfall profits tax because of the war in Iraq and the Exxon Valdez disaster? That doesn't make any sense.

Obviously, like everyone else, I am bothered by the prices at the pump, but I don't know that a tax is the answer. It seems to me it would only increase prices even more.

I understand that the revenues from the tax are supposed to go to funding research into alternative sources of energy, but that does not provide any immediate relief. So basically we have a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't accomplish anything anytime soon.

Plus, I hate to slippery slope here, but if we pass a windfall profits tax on oil companies (and I know there was one in 1980), what other companies will we deem to have "profited too much" in the future?

[boutons_]

"I don't know that a tax is the answer."

Any taxes on oilco windfall profits would not be used to the benefit of oil conservation, or any other identifiable benefit. The taxes would disappear into the govt general pool (unless the example of the fed gas tax being restricted to national road system were followed)


"It seems to me it would only increase prices even more."

... which is the best, most efficient way to drive down demand, which is the fundamental strategy in kicking Americans in their childish heads that the era of cheap oil is way, way over. There's no escape clause, no more smoke and mirrors hiding that fact.

"go to funding research into alternative sources of energy"

dickhead gifted fucking $15B in 2001 to the oilcos for "research". Anybody seen the results of that research? That was just dickhead stealing from the govt treasury to enrich the oilcos.

I'm dead set against the windfall profits tax.

[johnsmith]

... which is the best, most efficient way to drive down demand, which is the fundamental strategy in kicking Americans in their childish heads that the era of cheap oil is way, way over. There's no escape clause, no more smoke and mirrors hiding that fact.

Ladies and gentleman, I give you the reason no one likes boutons.

[101A]

Ladies and gentleman, I give you the reason no one likes boutons.


I like Boutons.

[Wild Cobra]

Why would a windfall profit tax apply to the oil companis? They know how much profit to expect. I guess we should tax extra on any quarterly profits that are higher than expected by any company. Would that be fair?

Why don't we call it what it is. A L.A.M.E. tax. (Liberals Aim for Many Earnings). Think they will stop at oil pofits?

[clambake]

Why would a windfall profit tax apply to the oil companis? They know how much profit to expect. I guess we should tax extra on any quarterly profits that are higher than expected by any company. Would that be fair?

Why don't we call it what it is. A L.A.M.E. tax. (Liberals Aim for Many Earnings). Think they will stop at oil pofits?

comparing all companies to oil companies is a joke, but republicans have little else to pound the table with.

when an oil exec. is summoned to capitol hill and unable to answer the question "how much money did you make in salary this year?", because the answer would be shamefully embarrasing, then you know we have a problem that involves collusion.

[ElNono]

The Windfall Profit Tax is absurd. You tax companies for being successful?
I'm more inclined for an Antitrust investigation to see if Chevron/Exxon colluded to raise gas prices. Somebody has been playing with Oil futures and driven the price up, and I'd like to know if the Oil Co's are involved.

[scott]

Any taxes on oilco windfall profits would not be used to the benefit of oil conservation, or any other identifiable benefit.

Then what, exactly, would be the point?

[boutons_]

"what, exactly, would be the point?"

I'm not the one to ask.

[Don Quixote]

I like Boutons.

I do too. He's one of the funniest ones here.

I'm still not convinced he's a real person, though.

My theory is that he's the troll, or alter-ego, of a conservative poster, who is trying to make libs look as dumb, angry, or clueless as possible.

[scott]

Understood.

I'll leave the question open to anyone in support of a windfall profits tax.

[Wild Cobra]

If we are going to have such a tax, then make it apply to all businesses that make over a certain percentage. Let's make it maybe all profits over 8% net profits get taxed an additional 50%. Thus, a 8% profit is 8%, 9% becomes 8.5%, 10% becomes 9%, etc.

Have to be fair. Don't target just the oil companies.

How will the Trial Lawyers that support the democrats like that one? Or the bankers? Or Mrs. Kerry?

Did you liberals know the Heinz company often makes more af a net profit percentage wise then the oil companies?

[scott]

And oh yeah, I should point out... we already have a "Windfall Profits Tax" in this country, its our basic graduated tax scale.

http://www.smbiz.com/sbrl001.html

[Nbadan]

And oh yeah, I should point out... we already have a "Windfall Profits Tax" in this country, its our basic graduated tax scale.

http://www.smbiz.com/sbrl001.html

If that's true, you need a better tax planner...

[Nbadan]

Understood.

I'll leave the question open to anyone in support of a windfall profits tax.

I'm still on the fence...on the one hand, I don't think giving big profits to rich stock-holders is best for anyone except the rich stock-holder, not to mention one of the key factors driving gas prices up is speculation, but on the other I would like to see more of this money going to alternative energy exploration and R&D subsidy, for instance, creating cars that get over 50 miles per gallon...

[scott]

If that's true, you need a better tax planner...

In what respect do you mean that? We have a graduated tax scale in this country. Discussion of a "windfall profits tax" isn't a new tax scheme, it is just adding another tier to the existing system.


I'm still on the fence...on the one hand, I don't think giving big profits to rich stock-holders is best for anyone except the rich stock-holder, not to mention one of the key factors driving gas prices up is speculation, but on the other I would like to see more of this money going to alternative energy exploration and R&D subsidy, for instance, creating cars that get over 50 miles per gallon...

Sounds like you aren't on the fence at all.

All stock-holders are not "rich". Are you suggesting that you should seek to punish wealthy stock holders and accept collateral damage to the non-wealthy ones? And what exactly does this punishment accomplish?

Wouldn't alternative energy exploration and R&D subsidies be better accomplishmed via tax incentives on those things?

You've been missed in the oil and tax thread Dan...

[boutons_]

"alternative energy exploration and R&D subsidies be better accomplishmed via tax incentives"

Congress just killed the Solar Tax Credit H.R. 6049 (http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/110/bill.pdf)

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1744/

Had this been an oilco tax break for "more drilling", it would have sailed through.

This is another example of corporate fascism. When its corps vs citizens, the fascist govt will always assure the corps win. The corps get whatever they want, citizens be damned.

dubya's far right radical, fascist SCOTUS will very probably legalize BigPharma's Holy Grail "shield law", which shields BigPharma from litigation (you'll never get your day in court) for any deaths or maimings caused by BigPharma products if the products are FDA-approved. BigPharma + FDA institutions to citizens: GFY

[101A]

"alternative energy exploration and R&D subsidies be better accomplishmed via tax incentives"

Congress just kiled the Solar Tax Credit H.R. 6049 (http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/110/bill.pdf)

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1744/

Had this been an oilco tax break for "more drilling", it would have sailed through.

This is another example of corporate fascism. When its corps vs citizens, the fascist govt will always assure the corps win. The corps get whatever they want, citizens be damned.

dubya's far right radical, fascist SCOTUS will very probably legalize BigPharma's Holy Grail "shield law", which shields BigPharma from litigation (you'll never get your day in court) for any deaths or maimings caused by BigPharma products if the products are FDA-approved. BigPharma + FDA institutions to citizens: GFY

Congress is contolled by who? If this break wasn't killed, and Bush vetoed it, it would be trumpeted loud and far; as it is, won't hear much of anything beyond this forum.

[boutons_]

"won't hear much"

Everybody was getting dumbed down and narcotized by watching TV.

[101A]

"won't hear much"

Everybody was getting dumbed down and narcotized by watching TV.

"Narcotized"

Nice.