Possible Trade?

[DPG21920]

I would personally like to see us try and trade for Andrea Bargnani. He is a scoring big man who is very athletic and can stretch the D. He is only 22 and can learn to become a better player. He would compliment Duncan so nicely and fill a team need. The Raptors seem to have somewhat given up on him and he makes a very reasonable 4 million a year. I do not know what they might want, but I think that would be a very good pick up for us, what do yall think?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

European Bonner.
Pass.

[Darkwaters]

Given up on him? No. You don't give up on the overall number 1 pick after only two years. Especially when this was Colangelo's "golden child". And if you did, it wouldn't be for spare parts from the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

Well his playing time seriously dipped in the second half of the season, and he even lost his starting job and he gets publicly reprimanded. Not saying they would give him away, but I think he can be really good, I watch almost every game for every team, and he is very talented for a 22 year old. Do you not even think if we could get him that he would fill in nicely?

[Big P]

I agree with Darkwaters, the Raptors have not given up on Bargnani & if/when they do, they can get ALOT more than anything the Spurs could offer.....I mean I would be shocked if we were able to pull the Jarrett Jack for the Beno TE & picks, that trade is a longshot...trading for Bargnani? Never gonna happen.

[DPG21920]

Bonner can not put the ball on the floor like this nor is he as tall or athletic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTHC-xireoQ

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I would personally like to see us try and trade for Andrea Bargnani. He is a scoring big man who is very athletic and can stretch the D. He is only 22 and can learn to become a better player. He would compliment Duncan so nicely and fill a team need. The Raptors seem to have somewhat given up on him and he makes a very reasonable 4 million a year. I do not know what they might want, but I think that would be a very good pick up for us, what do yall think?

It's a rookie deal up after next season, IIRC.

[FromWayDowntown]

Bargnani would definitely solve the Spurs problems rebounding the ball and finding some meaningful shot-blocking other than Tim Duncan.

:lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Is this the insightful information you're seeking from SA journos?

[ChumpDumper]

It's a rookie deal up after next season, IIRC.I think the Raptors have another option year after that then he would be restricted in the summer of 2010.

If he really sucks again he'll be getting pretty expensive.

[Spur-Addict]

Bonner can not put the ball on the floor like this nor is he as tall or athletic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTHC-xireoQ

Has everyone forgot about Bonner? (:lmao) Bonner is a beast when he puts the ball down...ROLL FILM!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qhibi0aSAZk

:lmao

[AFBlue]

Doesn't seem like a Spurs-type player...

Sam Mitchell had trouble getting Bargnani to play hard and focus. At this point he's a terrible defender without a true position. He plays Center, but he's too soft for the position. And I don't think he's as athletic as you give him credit for.

At this point he's a homeless man's Dirk Nowitzki and with his attitude I'm not sure he ever reaches that potential.

[T Park]

A big man who wont rebound nor block shots.

[timvp]

Bargnani is one of the worst players in the league. On top of that, the Raptors can't give up on him yet. Sam Mitchell will get fired before Bargnani is given up on.

[DPG21920]

Is this the insightful information you're seeking from SA journos?

It was an idea dick... This is exactly what I am looking for from the journalists, come up with some realistic ideas that could happen and fill some needs. Just trying to have a conversation, lets see what you can cook up that is reasonable. I think he is a good player that for any other 22 year old would be considered very good. People forget that just because he was a number one pick, that he is still very young. I like him, you do not have to.

[ChumpDumper]

It was an idea dick...You're an idea dick!

[AFBlue]

dpg....You're Out Of Your Element!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

You're an idea dick!

:lmao

[Mr. Body]

Samir Not-gunna-work-here-anymore: "This is terrible, this idea. Terrible."

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bargnani blows. He has lost so much respect from me I will now call him by pronouncing his name how it is spelled.

Andrea (which is a girl's name) BARG-NAN-EE!

[Kindergarten Cop]

You're an idea dick!

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

At this point I'd rather we not have the Spurs' offseason plans hitting the press.

And this forum is the perfect place to discuss the Spurs' offseason.

[Samir Nagheenanajar]

Samir Not-gunna-work-here-anymore: "This is terrible, this idea. Terrible."

This is a fuck!

[T Park]

:lmao

Greatness with Samir :lol

[DPG21920]

Bargnani would definitely solve the Spurs problems rebounding the ball and finding some meaningful shot-blocking other than Tim Duncan.

:lol

Did Elson rebound or block shots? Does Oberto rebound or block shots? Are they younger or more athletic than Andrea? Can they spread the floor on the offensive end like Andrea? Does Oberto have room to get better? Does Andrea?

[DPG21920]

How am I out of my element? Because I am purposing ideas that you do not like? I can hold my own with anyone, and even though you guys have your cute little clicks, does not mean I do not know any less than you. Not trying to get into a pissing contest, just trying to talk basketball. Being objective is not agreeing with everyone, it is saying something you believe is true, and then trying to back it up with insight.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Does Oberto rebound or block shots?
He doesn't block but neither does Andrea. He rebounds better than Andrea.

Are they younger or more athletic than Andrea?
Doesn't really matter when he can't even put up better defensive stats with the better athleticism and playing time.

Can they spread the floor on the offensive end like Andrea?
That's what we got Bonner for.

Does Oberto have room to get better? Does Andrea?
Oberto doesn't. Andrea does. But it's gonna be in Toronto.

[DPG21920]

Oberto does not rebound hardly any better and Bonner can not take it to the rack or have the all around game the Barg does, are you serious, would Bonner have been a #1 pick, I think you are like most basketball fans, myopic

[anakha]

Did Elson rebound or block shots? Does Oberto rebound or block shots?

Oberto - 5.2 rbs in 20.1 mins per game
Elson - 3.2 rbs in 12.9 mins per game
Bargnani - 3.7 rbs in 23.9 mins per game

At least Oberto and Elson rebound at a better rate than Bustnani.

[anakha]

I think you are like most basketball fans, myopic

Pot, kettle, black. :lol

[DPG21920]

How am I myopic, you are calling a 22 year old a bust, I am saying he has room to grow

[DPG21920]

If someone purposes an idea on this site, you all act like elitist a-holes. As mentioned before, no one on here has any track record of being correct about off season moves so what give you the idea that you know so much?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Oberto does not rebound hardly any better

Oberto - 5.2 rbs in 20.1 mins per game
Bargnani - 3.7 rbs in 23.9 mins per game

At least Oberto and Elso rebound at a better rate than Bustnani.
I love the M-quote :).

and Bonner can not take it to the rack or have the all around game the Barg does,
Bargnani leads Bonner in scoring by double.
Their rebounding is off by 1.
And Bonner is a better shooter.
And Bonner did this in half the time during the season.

are you serious, would Bonner have been a #1 pick, I think you are like most basketball fans, myopic
Well you gotta ask Toronto about that.

[ChumpDumper]

If someone purposes an idea on this site, you all act like elitist a-holes. As mentioned before, no one on here has any track record of being correct about off season moves so what give you the idea that you know so much?I was close once -- I suppose many of us are right about what doesn't work.

I don't think the Spurs have anything the Raps want right now.

[anakha]

If someone purposes an idea on this site, you all act like elitist a-holes. As mentioned before, no one on here has any track record of being correct about off season moves so what give you the idea that you know so much?

You use bad arguments to try and defend your take, and get all pissy when they're called out? Who's acting like the 'a-hole' now? :lol

[DPG21920]

I love the M-quote :).

Bargnani leads Bonner in scoring by double.
Their rebounding is off by 1.
And Bonner is a better shooter.
And Bonner did this in half the time during the season.

Well you gotta ask Toronto about that.

As I said, hardly, that is not a big difference in rebounding and Bonner can not shoot better than Andrea. I watch him play all the time. Just because Bargs is struggling does not mean Bonner is a better shooter. If that is the case, Bonner would be a very tradeable asset

[DPG21920]

What are my bad arguments? Please show me what they are.. I said he rebounds close to all of our bigs, but scores better than all of them. I said he is young and can get better a defense and rebounding. How are any of those off base and bad arguments?

[MaNu4Tres]

Last thing we need is another soft euro.

[DPG21920]

It is called a debate, two opposing sides defending their position on an issue. I could understand if I was making outlandish claims, but mine were more than reasonable and I have my opinion that he could be a good compliment for our team.

[FromWayDowntown]

It is called a debate, two opposing sides defending their position on an issue. I could understand if I was making outlandish claims, but mine were more than reasonable and I have my opinion that he could be a good compliment for our team.

You don't want to have a debate -- you want everyone to just agree with you.

Posters are providing a significant number of reasons for their view that pursuing Bargnani isn't a good idea. You, in turn, get your panties in a wad about the fact that anyone would deign to disagree with your view by posting their own reasons for disputing your idea.

[ChumpDumper]

I suppose if the Spurs thought they could play the three most of the time we could try him out. Still don't have anything the Raptors would want and he makes way too much money to try to put together a package.

[anakha]

I said he rebounds close to all of our bigs

Oberto - 5.2 rbs in 20.1 mins per game -> 12.4 rbs per 48 mins
Elson - 3.2 rbs in 12.9 mins per game -> 11.9 rbs per 48 mins
Bargnani - 3.7 rbs in 23.9 mins per game -> 7.4 rbs per 48 mins

Try again.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why isn't there a place where you can discuss what the Spurs should do this offseason?


http://apublicdefender.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/aflac_1.jpg

Wha....?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bonner can not shoot better than Andrea.
I watch him play all the time.
Just because Bargs is struggling does not mean Bonner is a better shooter.
Stats don't lie.
He's better at FG% and FT%. Bargnani is a better 3pt shooter by only 1%

If that is the case, Bonner would be a very tradeable asset
Not really.
Bargnani sucks, he isn't a tradeable asset.
Just because Bonner shoots better, that doesn't make him a tradeable asset all of a sudden.

[ChumpDumper]

Oberto - 5.2 rbs in 20.1 mins per game -> 12.4 rbs per 48 mins
Elson - 3.2 rbs in 12.9 mins per game -> 11.9 rbs per 48 mins
Bargnani - 3.7 rbs in 23.9 mins per game -> 7.4 rbs per 48 mins

Try again.True enough. Elson and Oberto were slightly underrated as rebounders mainly because of their sporadic minutes.

Bargnani isn't good at all. Another reason I would want him on the perimeter.

[exstatic]

What are my bad arguments? Please show me what they are.. I said he rebounds close to all of our bigs, but scores better than all of them. I said he is young and can get better a defense and rebounding. How are any of those off base and bad arguments?

Your worst argument is thinking we have anything outside of the big three that Toronto would want in exchange for Barfnani.

[AFBlue]

How am I out of my element? Because I am purposing ideas that you do not like? I can hold my own with anyone, and even though you guys have your cute little clicks, does not mean I do not know any less than you. Not trying to get into a pissing contest, just trying to talk basketball. Being objective is not agreeing with everyone, it is saying something you believe is true, and then trying to back it up with insight.

Chill dude, I was not framing an argument around your avatar. I just thought it'd be funny.

Seriously though, it's not bad to come up with scenarios you think would help the Spurs out. You just happen to have run into alot of resistance on this one....and for good reason.

Bargnani has attitude/focus issues, lacks a true position, makes boatloads of cash (even on a rookie contract) and would be tough to trade for. All in all, that makes for a bad mix.

If you've got another idea, throw it out there. This one...not so much.

[DPG21920]

Oberto - 5.2 rbs in 20.1 mins per game -> 12.4 rbs per 48 mins
Elson - 3.2 rbs in 12.9 mins per game -> 11.9 rbs per 48 mins
Bargnani - 3.7 rbs in 23.9 mins per game -> 7.4 rbs per 48 mins

Try again.

To bad you can not just extrapolate stats like that. Take Manu for example, his per 48 minutes are incredible, but he loses effectiveness the more minutes he plays, so there is no way they are completely accurate and I would take 3-5 less rebounds for more scoring, you can teach rebounding, scoring is much much harder to teach TRY AGAIN...

[DPG21920]

Your worst argument is thinking we have anything outside of the big three that Toronto would want in exchange for Barfnani.

Read my first post in the thread, I started out by saying I do not know what we have to offer them.

[anakha]

To bad you can not just extrapolate stats like that. Take Manu for example, his per 48 minutes are incredible, but he loses effectiveness the more minutes he plays, so there is no way they are completely accurate and I would take 3-5 less rebounds for more scoring, you can teach rebounding, scoring is much much harder to teach TRY AGAIN...

So now rebounding rate as a stat is overrated? Wasn't part of your argument that Bargnani rebounds at a rate close to Oberto and Elson?

Sheesh. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

To bad you can not just extrapolate stats like that. Take Manu for example, his per 48 minutes are incredible, but he loses effectiveness the more minutes he plays, so there is no way they are completely accurate and I would take 3-5 less rebounds for more scoring, you can teach rebounding, scoring is much much harder to teach TRY AGAIN...I would in no way take 3-5 fewer rebounds from a guy who is supposed to play next to Duncan. That guy isn't going to score much anyway.

[DPG21920]

Chill dude, I was not framing an argument around your avatar. I just thought it'd be funny.

Seriously though, it's not bad to come up with scenarios you think would help the Spurs out. You just happen to have run into alot of resistance on this one....and for good reason.

Bargnani has attitude/focus issues, lacks a true position, makes boatloads of cash (even on a rookie contract) and would be tough to trade for. All in all, that makes for a bad mix.

If you've got another idea, throw it out there. This one...not so much.

I just think people are selling this 22 year old short. He, as is, would be considered excellent for his age coming out of college, which most 22 year olds are. He has his issues, no doubt, but still a ton of upside, a la Dirk.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I just think people are selling this 22 year old short. He, as is, would be considered excellent for his age coming out of college, which most 22 year olds are. He has his issues, no doubt, but still a ton of upside, a la Dirk.

But what would make you think that Toronto would be open to trading him as they're not giving up on the 1st overall pick just yet?
And what would make you think that the Spurs would be open to trading for him as they already have someone like him in Matt Bonner, and with another big they're trying to develop in Ian Mahinmi?

[DPG21920]

I am not saying rebounds per game or per minute are not telling stats, but it does not mean that guys who average 4 rebounds in 12 minutes of play would average 16 boards a game.

[AFBlue]

I just think people are selling this 22 year old short. He, as is, would be considered excellent for his age coming out of college, which most 22 year olds are. He has his issues, no doubt, but still a ton of upside, a la Dirk.

He was the #1 pick in the draft and, fairly or unfairly, is held to that standard. Honestly, it was a weak draft and Bargnani was only the clear-cut favorite because Colangelo wanted to make Toronto into Europe's first NBA team.

He was not a complete prospect then and he hasn't shown much progress to make people think he's going to emerge as a star one day. Obviously at 22 the book is far from written on this kid, but what we've seen so far doesn't look promising.

[DPG21920]

But what would make you think that Toronto would be open to trading him as they're not giving up on the 1st overall pick just yet?
And what would make you think that the Spurs would be open to trading for him as they already have someone like him in Matt Bonner, and with another big they're trying to develop in Ian Mahinmi?

I did not say in the original thread that I thought they would trade him other than he lost a lot of playing time this season. I said I would like him on the Spurs and it would not be impossible to get him if they are unhappy with him.

The Spurs would be willing to trade for him because Tiago is not coming over and Bonner is aging with very limited skill set and no room to improve. Andrea is only 22, pretty polished offensively and can work on defense, rebounding and post moves, although his work ethic is questionable.

[anakha]

I am not saying rebounds per game or per minute are not telling stats, but it does not mean that guys who average 4 rebounds in 12 minutes of play would average 16 boards a game.

That's not what the per 48 min stat is intended to show. What it is supposed to highlight is how high a player rebounds given the minutes he is given.

And the fact that Bargnani rebounds at such a depressingly low rate for a seven-footer you mean to throw out there alongside Duncan is enough of a reason for me to dislike this trade idea.

Sure, the guy may still have some potential to improve. But skill-wise and for the price he commands? Bad fit.

[ChumpDumper]

Since when is 28 aging?

Anyway there's no way Bargnani would get ANY minutes at PF/C because the other players here are so much better than he is.

[AFBlue]

I did not say in the original thread that I thought they would trade him other than he lost a lot of playing time this season. I said I would like him on the Spurs and it would not be impossible to get him if they are unhappy with him.

The Spurs would be willing to trade for him because Tiago is not coming over and Bonner is aging with very limited skill set and no room to improve. Andrea is only 22, pretty polished offensively and can work on defense, rebounding and post moves, although his work ethic is questionable.

There's another athletic big with polished offensive skills and a questionable work ethic that is reportedly available and would probably cost alot less to get....

Meet Charlie Villanueva.

[DPG21920]

Well, I am saying that I think Bargs will have a very nice career when it is all said and done.

[DPG21920]

I would love to get Charlie.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Spurs would be willing to trade for him because Tiago is not coming over and Bonner is aging with very limited skill set and no room to improve. Andrea is only 22, pretty polished offensively and can work on defense, rebounding and post moves, although his work ethic is questionable.
They could also pick a big from the draft.
And just how different is Bonner's skillset from Andrea's? There's not many differences. Matt Bonner is 28, but that doesn't mean he still can't crack a spot into the rotation with the Spurs.
If he has questionable work ethic, then that's already a big red flag in the Spurs FO eyes.

And on top of that I still don't see a reason why Toronto would trade him.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I am saying that I think Bargs will have a very nice career when it is all said and done.Maybe, but....

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/largepics/skita.jpg

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Maybe, but....

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/largepics/skita.jpg

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

There's another athletic big with polished offensive skills and a questionable work ethic that is reportedly available and would probably cost alot less to get....

Meet Charlie Villanueva.

...and a very palatable contract.

[AFBlue]

...and a very palatable contract.

no guaranteed money beyond 2010...nice

[Marcus Bryant]

no guaranteed money beyond 2010...nice

'09, no?

[ChumpDumper]

I think CV is restricted next summer.

[AFBlue]

'09, no?

Qualifying offer prior to 09/10 season....so it'd be like a two-year contract with a team option in the second year.

[AFBlue]

He's set to make about $3.5M this year and a little over $4M the next year, if the team extends the qualifying offer.

I'm sure they want to get some value in return for him, but at this point they're overcrowded with perimeter-oriented forwards and it'll be interesting to see who they target in this draft.

Not sure what it would take, but he'd be a nice gamble.

[Marcus Bryant]

Qualifying offer prior to 09/10 season....so it'd be like a two-year contract with a team option in the second year.

Yeah.

I'd like him in the rotation as someone with some size who can shoot the 3. How does he become a Spur?

[AFBlue]

Yeah.

I'd like him in the rotation as someone with some size who can shoot the 3. How does he become a Spur?

Million dollar question....

Bonner's salary is nearly a match, but he's got another year beyond this one and I doubt Milwakee would take him on for his talent.

Splitter's rights are worth diddly at the moment, so I'm not sure how much that helps.

I suppose the Spurs could dangle a draft pick or two, though they don't have much to offer outside of this year's #26, which is too much IMO.

Okay here's my wag....

S&T Horry (subsequently retires), future first-round draft pick, and Splitter rights.

Damn that's soft.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't know. I don't see much of a chance. But you never know. I don't think the lux tax would be much of a concern. And they can keep him for a relatively cheap salary for a few more seasons.

[Spurs da champs]

European Bonner.
Pass.

I agree.

[SequSpur]

Bargnani sucks...

WTF is wrong with you?

[ducks]

How Do You Know
You Are Always Bowling

[ss1986v2]

why the love for CV around here? hes a much more athletic bonner, minus any of the stroke on his shot. the man shot 29.7% from 3 this season on 2+ attempts a game (career 31.8% from 3).

hes antoine walker v0.5...

[Big P]

Please no...no CV....he is the one SF we DON'T need.

[angelbelow]

European Bonner.
Pass.

LOL

for cheap i wouldnt mind tho.

[cly2tw]

Bargani for Udoka?

[waly.mg]

Bonner can not put the ball on the floor like this nor is he as tall or athletic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTHC-xireoQ

That´s not true

Bonner can put the ball on the floor ................. but he is going to lost it.

[mrspurs]

we dont need another horry...a big man who would rather shoot 3's then play inside where he belongs....we need a big tough man, who cares if he cant score, we have plenty of bigs like that already....we need a big who can block,rebound and mostly not choke under pressure like the bigs we got now(minus duncan of course)..toronto can keep that scrub, unless they are willing to give him away....go spurs go

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol
How Do You Know
You Are Always Bowling

[rlballin1]

Ok, I jus got start here and I saw this thread and had to comment

A trade for Andrea Bargnani makes basketball sense:
I heard all this talk about him being a 1% better 3point shooter than Bonner. Yea the numbers support this, but look at the differences in attempts. Bargnani took 124 more 3pt attempts, and he still is higher than him. Its easier to shoot a high percentage when your shooting less shots. Thats just common sense.
Also we can't forget that this is the NBA, "Where Mis-Matches happen". The spurs hardly ever have a positive offensive mismatch on their side, Bargnani creates that. Being able to attack the rim and shoot a three pointer would make us much more versatile on offense.

Am I saying the guy is Dirk reincarnated. Fuck ass no... Am I saying that it is a realistic trade...hardly.....However, to say that this is a stupid trade idea is just as silly as assuming Bargnani will be better than Dirk

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bargnani's gotta get stronger and learn some D before he can join the Spurs.