Which Eastern Conference Champion was the best, '04 Pistons, '06 Heat, or '08Celtics

[InRareForm]

I think '04 Pistons are the best of that group.

:wakeup what do you think?

[dknights411]

1. 08 Celtics
2. 04 Pistons
3. 06 Heat

[xtremesteven33]

2008 Celtics would beat 2004 Pistons in 7 Games.

[T Park]

04 Pistons in a rout.

[JamStone]

This year's Celtics.

The 2004 Pistons had just as good, perhaps even slightly better, defense than this year's Celtics. But, their offense was absolutely anemic at times. The Celtics have Paul Pierce to take over with one-on-one isolation plays when the offense breaks down. The Pistons didn't have that, especially one that would consistently get to the rim when jumpers don't fall. And, since the Celtics had a much better regular season record, they would have homecourt advantage in a hypothetical 7 game series.

I say edge to this year's Boston Celtics team.

[xtremesteven33]

2004 Pistons were a great defensive team but did not have great offensive power.

these 2008 Celtics are deeper and have a better offensive game are just as good if not better defensively

[baseline bum]

The '04 Pistons were the best of the three, and it's not even close. The Wallace boys and Prince were far superior to the Cs defensively, and the only team to ever shut down the inside like they did was the 99 Spurs. The Pistons were deeper; they went three deep at the point (Billups/James/Hunter), and their frontcourt rotation was Wallace/Wallace/Prince/Okur/Williamson/Campbell. They annihilated a Lakers team that was far superior to one that made the Finals this year. They had great low post scoring in Rasheed and Williamson, a strong PG who could play in the post, hit big shots, and get to the line in Billups, an efficient shooting guard in Hamilton, the best transition defender in the game in Prince, a bigman in Big Ben who was good enough to step out and pressure guards, a Posey Jr. in Mike James, and a lockdown defender at the point in Hunter. '04 Pistons by a mile.

[baseline bum]

This year's Celtics.

The 2004 Pistons had just as good, perhaps even slightly better, defense than this year's Celtics. But, their offense was absolutely anemic at times. The Celtics have Paul Pierce to take over with one-on-one isolation plays when the offense breaks down. The Pistons didn't have that, especially one that would consistently get to the rim when jumpers don't fall. And, since the Celtics had a much better regular season record, they would have homecourt advantage in a hypothetical 7 game series.

I say edge to this year's Boston Celtics team.

WGAF about regular season record? If the 04 Pistons had Rasheed the whole year, they'd have prob won 62+.

[Cry Havoc]

This year's Celtics.

The 2004 Pistons had just as good, perhaps even slightly better, defense than this year's Celtics. But, their offense was absolutely anemic at times. The Celtics have Paul Pierce to take over with one-on-one isolation plays when the offense breaks down. The Pistons didn't have that, especially one that would consistently get to the rim when jumpers don't fall. And, since the Celtics had a much better regular season record, they would have homecourt advantage in a hypothetical 7 game series.

I say edge to this year's Boston Celtics team.

That year the Pistons sure as hell had a lot of swagger though. Big Ben would have destroyed KG. Prince would have given Pierce fits, and Chauncey and Rip could have locked down Rondo and Allen.

I think as good as the Boston offense is, it would have been smashed to bits by those Pistons. I mean, the Lakers took 2 games from this Celtics team and they don't play 1/10th the defense that the 04 Pistons did.

Wouldn't the 04 Lakers have beaten the 08 Lakers?

I think Boston's offense only looks explosive because they didn't play a really gritty defensive team for the entire playoffs. A rested Spurs team would probably have taken them to 7 games.

[Supergirl]

Celtics
Pistons
Heat

[InRareForm]

Wouldn't the 04 Lakers have beaten the 08 Lakers?

absolutely

[baseline bum]

I mean, it's not even close at all. The 04 Pistons came one desperation three from sweeping Los Angeles.

[stretch]

This year's Celtics.

The 2004 Pistons had just as good, perhaps even slightly better, defense than this year's Celtics. But, their offense was absolutely anemic at times. The Celtics have Paul Pierce to take over with one-on-one isolation plays when the offense breaks down. The Pistons didn't have that, especially one that would consistently get to the rim when jumpers don't fall. And, since the Celtics had a much better regular season record, they would have homecourt advantage in a hypothetical 7 game series.

I say edge to this year's Boston Celtics team.

No way, the 2004 Pistons defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2008 Celtics defense.

[slayermin]

I give my vote to the '04 Pistons.

[JamStone]

WGAF about regular season record? If the 04 Pistons had Rasheed the whole year, they'd have prob won 62+.

They didn't have Rasheed the whole year. I'm comparing the two teams in their respective seasons. And, even if the Pistons won 62+ games, as long as it wasn't more than 66, the Celtics would still have homecourt. I mentioned how the Celtics had a "much better" record because if you put both teams in the same season, the Celtics still most likely have the better record, thereby giving them homecourt advantage.

Pistons played great that year, but talent-wise, I feel this year's Celtics still has more. And, as I mentioned, the difference is each team's respective offense and the Celtics having a player like Paul Pierce that can take over, attack the rim, and consistently get to the line by drives to the basket.

[stretch]

sorry, but I just think the 08 Celtics defense is so massively overrated its not even funny. its not bad, but their defense is a lot like the Suns defense back in 2006 or whatever, when they actually had some pretty solid defensive stats, but mainly due to the fact that they would run shitty teams out of the gym so easily with their proficient offense, which in turn leads to the opposing team taking bad, forced shots. the entire series is proof of that... they got hot, hit everything, and the Lakers would lose focus and take shitty shots (except for that game the Lakers came back from being down a bunch, cuz they actually started taking good shots and driving straight at KG in the 4th and were able to get some easy buckets and momentum. the only difference between that Phoenix defense and this Celtics defense, is that the Celtics actually have people that can guard the paint. But their defense is no where close to being as good as that Pistons team, or any Spurs team of the past 8 years or so. Not even as good as the Rockets have been the past several years.

[xtremesteven33]

I mean, it's not even close at all. The 04 Pistons came one desperation three from sweeping Los Angeles.


you have a point, but if it were to happen i see Boston winning cause of better offense

[Vinnie_Johnson]

04 Pistons that defense set the NBA back 10 years.

[jack sommerset]

Celtics and unless something changes in the East they will represent the East the next 2 - 3 years easily.

[The Franchise]

08 celtics. They are the 04 pistons with a little more offense.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Pistons

[lrrr]

Why does everyone say the 04 Pistons offense was bad? They had 4 guys who could put up 20-30 points on any given night, the Spurs have NEVER had that balance. It's just that Larry Brown put so much emphasis on defense. They could guard the perimeter and the middle.

I still believe that if the 08 Pistons were healthy, they would have taken out the Celtics.

[JamStone]

Why does everyone say the 04 Pistons offense was bad? They had 4 guys who could put up 20-30 points on any given night, the Spurs have NEVER had that balance. It's just that Larry Brown put so much emphasis on defense. They could guard the perimeter and the middle.

I still believe that if the 08 Pistons were healthy, they would have taken out the Celtics.


So if they had such a balanced offense with such a great defense, are the 04 Pistons better than any of the Spurs championship teams?

[Ghazi]

Why does everyone say the 04 Pistons offense was bad? They had 4 guys who could put up 20-30 points on any given night, the Spurs have NEVER had that balance. It's just that Larry Brown put so much emphasis on defense. They could guard the perimeter and the middle.

I still believe that if the 08 Pistons were healthy, they would have taken out the Celtics.

Health had nothing to do with that series, the better team won. Sheed wasn't injured, he just sucked (in game 6) whereas Billups and Hamilton played fine.

[endrity]

I also think people are selling the 04 Pistons offense a little short, and they were also deeper than people remember. They had a very effective Memo, a still contributing Elden Campbell, plus the younger Lindsey Hunter giving solid contributions off the bench. It's not like this year's Celtics had that much talent coming off the bench, Cassell was inneffective, Leon Powe had one good game, and then the best they had was 39 year old PJ Brown.

The reason people think their offense was bad was because LB had them playing a very slow pace, but under Flip in 06 they had a tremendous offense during the regular season. They were actually very effective during the Finals, they got any shot they wanted.

Having said that, their defensive domination also had a lot to do with the Lakers simply imploding, especially Kobe who checked out mentally right after Game 2 and went on a do-it-alone mission.

I still think that that year's Pistons were one of the best teams we have ever seen, but also a case of a team who played some amazing team ball, in the most appropriate time. IT's very hard to reach that peak again, and they haven't.

So I would say
Pistons
Celtics
Heat (no debate about them, they weren't the best team that season to begin with)

[JamStone]

Health had nothing to do with that series, the better team won. Sheed wasn't injured, he just sucked (in game 6) whereas Billups and Hamilton played fine.

Better team won, but Billups injury did affect him for the first three games. Billups played better as the series progressed. One could argue the Pistons may have stolen game 1 as well if Billups had been right. Moot point, but the injury to Billups did play a role early on in the series.

[cornbread]

04 Pistons.

[Lp26]

I posted this somewhere else, and haven't posted here in awhile but i had to when i saw this thread.

The 08' Celtics being better than the 04' Pistons ?

Bullshit. No way possible. Not even in someone's dreams. That 04 Pistons defense would shred BOS. LB would kill Doc Rivers in the coaching department. KG's choking would be on full display. Ben would scare the crap out of him. Prince would be effective on Pierce because we'd actually keep him out of the paint. I could go on . . .

A fossil version of Ben did a good job on KG in the Cavs series which if anyone recalls BOS almost lost to a one man team with a defense able to choke off most of their options that doesn't even rival the Pistons.

I mean really if the Wallace combo can be semi-effective on Duncan, you're telling me they can't shut down KG?

And yes the Pistons offense in 04 was underrated, and besides that they generated tons of offense in the open court, and off their defense. They actually moved the ball in half-court sets, and didn't play retarded iso ball that seemed to be the theme of the Flip era.

The Pistons were not sissies on the road, and their defense was for the most part consistent something BOS lacked even in the finals.

BOS is so overrated. Just because they were the best team THIS year means nothing esp w/ the weak competition they played in the finals. PP dragged KG kicking and screaming to the finish line.

[td4mvp21]

'04 Pistons without a doubt. Their defense was even better than the Celtics'.

[Tacker]

Billups is stronger and bigger than rondo plus you have billups young feet in 04 so...
Billups>Rondo

You have Ben Wallace who was the DPY that year or the year after with fresh and young legs, he will dominate defensively inside the paint where KG was most effective against the lakers

Now that Rasheed Wallace doesnt have to worry about the center he would do just find guarding Lamar Odom and + he has a nice perimeter to his game

Kobe will have to be guarded by Tashuyan Prince and with Prince's long arms he wont stop kobe but he will do good against him.. although I still think Kobe will average more than 20+ ppg.

[Tacker]

Pistons in 7

[gasolina]

04 Pistons

They beat Kobe with Shaq and a couple more HoFers. This was the 3peat Lakers last Hurrah season that came up short and still hurts to this day.

[Tacker]

Celtics and unless something changes in the East they will represent the East the next 2 - 3 years easily.

I think the 09 Bulls have something to say about that....

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think the 09 Bulls have something to say about that....

They would say we agree with what jack sommerset said.

[lrrr]

So if they had such a balanced offense with such a great defense, are the 04 Pistons better than any of the Spurs championship teams?

Almost. Took the Spurs 7 games to beat them with HCA. If the Pistons had the HC that year, they would probably have repeated.


Psitons were no doubt the more balanced team. What got the Spurs over the line was the greatness of Duncan, the tenacity of Ginobili and the clutchness of Horry. Those are intangibles the Celtics don't even understand...

[Obstructed_View]

Toss up between the Pistons and the Heat. I'll forever love both teams for keeping Karl Malone and Mark Cuban ringless.

[Pistons < Spurs]

It would be interesting to see those 2 teams go at it. But something to keep in mind here, the Pistons guards and their overall perimeter defense was so good in 04 largely because the league hadn't yet enacted the no hand check rule. If they were to play by the old rules, I'd give the edge to Detroit. But honestly, once that rule went into place, it took away from our defensive abilities quite a bit.

[jacobdrj]

The '04 Pistons were such a well rounded team. People forget just how well rounded they were. Tayshaun was still rested at that point in his career. Sheed was energized from the trade and his defense would have been sufficient on KG with Ben anchoring the help-side. Corliss of the bench was money, and a complete reversal from Tashaun (offense for defense switch, inside scoring for outside scoring switch.) The combo of Lindsay Hunter and Mike James was such a contrast from Rip Hamilton and a still-tough-minded Chauncy Billups that it caused opposing teams fits (Chauncy and Rip couldn't defend for their lives, and Bips would both drive and hit clutch shots and Rip had that unique mid range game, while James and Hunter were like rabid dogs defending, and James could drive, while Hunter could hit the three... it was devastating when they switched).

The Pistons were the master of the 'different look', along with the 2nd deepest bench in the NBA 3 years running (Okur was a bench player, and was almost as good as Ben Wallace on D, and better than Sheed at the 3).

Oh, and they had a monumental defense, and beat 2 of the other most monumental defensive squads in a row in NJ and IND.

I see a lot of similarities between the Celtics and those Pistons. More than people give them credit for. The coaching was fairly equal on both squads. Both were kind of anemic on offense at times, but much of that came from playing in the defensively superior Eastern Conference. So the numbers are misleading.

PP and Bips cancel each other out in 2004. Sheed and Ben '04 easily counter KG/Co on defense alone, as KG was having a hard time scoring anyways (keep in mind, this is the Duo, along with Okur that held Shaq in check with single coverage BEFORE the Rasheed trade).
Pistons bench was a little deeper, and the starters for the Celts were a little better. And the Pistons and the Celtics both had things to prove and were VERY hungry.

It would be a crazy series.

The 2006 Heat had no business being in the Finals (were pushed in) and defeated a team that shouldn't have been in the finals to begin with (Spurs should have been there, the NBA messed things up bad), just as the 2005 Pistons had no business in the Finals (Wade got hurt), nor the 2007 Cavs (perfect storm)...
Celts '08 and Pistons '04 were the only teams worthy of of their Finals berths from the EC from 2004 on.

[baseline bum]

So if they had such a balanced offense with such a great defense, are the 04 Pistons better than any of the Spurs championship teams?

I think they would have taken out the 05 Spurs (factoring Duncan's ankles in) and probably the 07 Spurs.

[Lakers08Champs]

01 lakers. we only lost one game in the playoffs...beat THAT!! :hat

[Tacker]

01 lakers. we only lost one game in the playoffs...beat THAT!! :hat
so did the 83 76ers...

[MagnusKrauss]

Lakers08Chumps must be dyslexic. We're talking East here.

04 Pistons gets my vote. we haven't seen the 08 Celts beat a truly monstrous defensive team this playoffs (Cavs & 08 Pistons don't count)

[bostonguy]

sorry, but I just think the 08 Celtics defense is so massively overrated its not even funny. its not bad, but their defense is a lot like the Suns defense back in 2006 or whatever, when they actually had some pretty solid defensive stats, but mainly due to the fact that they would run shitty teams out of the gym so easily with their proficient offense, which in turn leads to the opposing team taking bad, forced shots.

:lmao:lmao at you comparing the Celtics defense to the Suns. Celts O is good but it wasnt the backbone of their team. It was their defense and has been the case all season long. There is no other way to say it Stretch. The Celts defense is that fucking good. On the stat sheet and on the court it showed. Stretch deep down inside you that too. Let your hate for the Celts go.:toast


the entire series is proof of that... they got hot, hit everything, and the Lakers would lose focus and take shitty shots (except for that game the Lakers came back from being down a bunch, cuz they actually started taking good shots and driving straight at KG in the 4th and were able to get some easy buckets and momentum.

The only reason LA managed to make that game 2 comeback was because Boston let their guard down. They were up 24 with 7-8 minutes left in the 4th and then all of a sudden they thought the Lakers would quit trying. Thats why you saw them treating a 30 point lead like a 1 point lead throughout the 2nd half last night.


the only difference between that Phoenix defense and this Celtics defense, is that the Celtics actually have people that can guard the paint. But their defense is no where close to being as good as that Pistons team, or any Spurs team of the past 8 years or so. Not even as good as the Rockets have been the past several years.

The difference between this Celtic D and the Suns D is the Celtics can play it on any given night for a full 48 minutes. That is what this team has been about all season long. Pistons/Spurs/Rockets had a top notch defense for consecutive years. It's way too premature to put the Celts in that class. If they can do this for a few more years, then we can bring that conversation up. Until then, 1 year just isnt enough.

[stretch]

:lmao:lmao at you comparing the Celtics defense to the Suns. Celts O is good but it wasnt the backbone of their team. It was their defense and has been the case all season long. There is no other way to say it Stretch. The Celts defense is that fucking good. On the stat sheet and on the court it showed. Stretch deep down inside you that too. Let your hate for the Celts go.:toast

Actually I don't hate the Celtics one bit. I just think their defense is massively overrated. Its not a bad defense by any means ,but the fact is, the ONLY time they "shut down" opponents, is when they are hitting their shots. they are not like the Spurs and Pistons. You cannot count on them to win a game with defense when their shot is not falling. Granted, it doesnt happen often, because their offense is very very solid and balanced. But if they arent hitting shots, they arent winning the game with defense.

and you really have no reason to talk shit to me. remember what happened last time... *cough* *cough* 18*-1 *cough*


The only reason LA managed to make that game 2 comeback was because Boston let their guard down. They were up 24 with 7-8 minutes left in the 4th and then all of a sudden they thought the Lakers would quit trying. Thats why you saw them treating a 30 point lead like a 1 point lead throughout the 2nd half last night.

I agree they let their guard down some, but also, the Lakers started playing MUCH smarter, and driving the ball, getting to the line, and taking SMART open jumpshots.


The difference between this Celtic D and the Suns D is the Celtics can play it on any given night for a full 48 minutes. That is what this team has been about all season long. Pistons/Spurs/Rockets had a top notch defense for consecutive years. It's way too premature to put the Celts in that class. If they can do this for a few more years, then we can bring that conversation up. Until then, 1 year just isnt enough.

According to Doc Rivers in his 4th quarter interview the other night, they have a problem with that.

And IMO, Celtic fans better enjoy this, because this Celtics team is not winning any more titles. Too many good up-and-coming teams, while the Celtics are getting older. I cannot see them beating Lebron next year, considering how awful his team was, yet he still took the Celtics to 7 games, despite some very "2006 Finals" type officiating in favor of the Celtics. Atlanta is definitely an up and coming team. Who knows what Philly may do. Orlando will only get better. And don't expect Stern to bail you guys out again next year, now that all this "fixing" stuff has been coming out lately...

[TDMVPDPOY]

04 pistons was the best

heat was funded by the refs

celtics was from sterns, what i wish, comes true

[MavDynasty]

04 pistons no doubt.Celts D is very overrated.

However,the 06 heat were the best at sleeping with the refs and getting to the line. The 06 Mavs didnt have that physical of a defense to allow 95+ free throws from one player.

[bdubya]

But something to keep in mind here, the Pistons guards and their overall perimeter defense was so good in 04 largely because the league hadn't yet enacted the no hand check rule. If they were to play by the old rules, I'd give the edge to Detroit. But honestly, once that rule went into place, it took away from our defensive abilities quite a bit.

That's a key point - the rule change makes the comparison pretty hard to draw. All Detroit's great defensive marks from that season have to be viewed in that light. Pistons' D in '04 was better than the current Celts is, but we don't know how this Celts team would have fared under the old rule - it's theoretically conceivable their D would have been as good or better than Detroit's.

Still, I'd pick the '04 Pistons, on the grounds that beating the "Fab Four" Lakers in 5 is more impressive than beating the current squad in 6.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Pistons in a heartbeat. They faced a team in LA that stood absolutely no chance guarding them and challenging them in terms of mental toughness (and the C's aren't even that tough mentally, which goes to show just how soft LA is).

Prince would be hell for Pierce, Big Ben/Wallace would give Garnett a lot of trouble. The series would come down to how well Billups plays, just like this year. They would have been in the Finals IMO if they were playing w/ a healthy Buillups.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Pistons and Celtics were the two best teams this year.

[bostonguy]

Actually I don't hate the Celtics one bit. I just think their defense is massively overrated. Its not a bad defense by any means ,but the fact is, the ONLY time they "shut down" opponents, is when they are hitting their shots. they are not like the Spurs and Pistons. You cannot count on them to win a game with defense when their shot is not falling. Granted, it doesnt happen often, because their offense is very very solid and balanced. But if they arent hitting shots, they arent winning the game with defense.

That goes for just about every team. You need both to win it all in this league. If your offense cant score enough points, it doesnt matter how good your defense is. The Celts werent hitting their shots in game 6 vs Detroit and game 4 vs LA yet they came back not just because of an offensive surge but their D as well. Boston started game 6 vs LA off horribly yet they were right there thanks to their D. Again I am not going to put them on the Spurs/Larry Brown Pistons category so it's not point in arguing about that. That Larry Brown Piston team had a good enough O as well to help out their D. Same with those Spurs teams. The O doesnt have to be great but it has to be productive. You need balance to win championships in the NBA.


and you really have no reason to talk shit to me. remember what happened last time... *cough* *cough* 18*-1 *cough*

Actually stretch I am not talking shit by any means. However if I wanted to, I would have every right to because my team was the last one standing.


I agree they let their guard down some, but also, the Lakers started playing MUCH smarter, and driving the ball, getting to the line, and taking SMART open jumpshots.

Thanks to boston relaxing with a 24 point lead with 7-8 minutes to go in the 4th. If Boston hadnt relaxed, LA doesnt make it that interesting.



According to Doc Rivers in his 4th quarter interview the other night, they have a problem with that.

Changed have to had.

And IMO, Celtic fans better enjoy this, because this Celtics team is not winning any more titles. Too many good up-and-coming teams, while the Celtics are getting older. I cannot see them beating Lebron next year, considering how awful his team was, yet he still took the Celtics to 7 games, despite some very "2006 Finals" type officiating in favor of the Celtics. Atlanta is definitely an up and coming team. Who knows what Philly may do. Orlando will only get better. And don't expect Stern to bail you guys out again next year, now that all this "fixing" stuff has been coming out lately...


:lmao the Cavs will be lucky to push the Celts 6 games if they dont make any moves. Celts improved so much after that series. The Celts team that played in the ECF/Finals would have beaten the Hawks/Cavs in 5-6 games. Unless Lebron gets help, and average players like West,Wally,Ben Wallace wont cut it. Unless Lebron has the likes of an Elton Brand/Michael Redd duo next to him, the Cavs arent beating the Celtics nor winning a championship. The Pistons are breaking up while everyone else in the east is just there. If things stay around what they are right now, its going to be rather diffcult beating a healthy Celts team 4 times in the east. Moves will have to be made and I would expect that from several eastern teams.

Also how do you know this Celts team isnt winning anymore titles? This team easily has another 2 strong years left in them. KG/Pierce/Allen arent anywhere near done and Rondo/Perkins are young. Posey is a damn good role player as is Leon Powe. Gabe Pruitt could be something next year at the backup pg spot. Cassell/Brown you can call done but everyone else isnt. Plus they have the MLE to use for more depth.

They didnt need a David Stern fix to be crowned champions. They were the best team in basketball this season and they proved it especially as the playoffs went on. They arent unbeatable by any means either.

Stretch you claim to not hate the Celts yet you throw the conspiracy bullshit card at them. Only someone who hates the Celtics would say something like that.:toast:toast

[DazedAndConfused]

'04 Pistons. Why is this even a debate? That was one of the most well-rounded teams the NBA has ever seen.

In fact, outside of the '01 Lakers and '05 Spurs I don't know if there is a team in this decade that could have taken them when they were at the top of their game.

[Harry Callahan]

Pistons. They were even hungrier than Celts. Larry Brown would figure out a way to beat Boston.

Boston really caught lightning in a bottle this year, so it would be a great series.