When is hip hop going to die?

[peewee's lovechild]

By the way, you dumb fuck, I defended hip-hop/rap as music when Brutalis said it wasn't.

[stretch]

You're jumping in an argument that wasn't meant for you.

You just can't see it because you're an idiot.

I was simply reponding to Mono posting the picture of a piano and saying that it had buttons.

Are you really this retarded?

All I said was that pianos don't have buttons. You still haven't even answered the question. That's how retarded you are.

Actually I've been reading this thread the entire time and in previous similar threads, I have made my feelings on this issue known. Cucking Funt pretty much summed up my feelings on music and the way people judge it. She's a smart woman.

I understand exactly what the argument between you and mono was about. My point is, keys and buttons are virtually the same thing. It's like arguing between the difference of a paperclip and a staple. They aren't exactly the same thing, but they serve the same fucking purpose, to hold shit together. Its a retarded argument, in which you knew exactly what mono was referring to, but you just chose to have to act like a fucking asshole about it.

You already know my answer to the question. You never answered mine though. But I already know you know the answer to it, and if you dont, as DannyB would say, go eat a bag of dicks.

[stretch]

You are beyond retarded.

Am I?


Mono doesn't have kids.

I'm aware that he doesn't.


I've never said anything about his would-be kids.

You just did.


I really can't believe you're this retarded.

:sleep

[stretch]

By the way, you dumb fuck, I defended hip-hop/rap as music when Brutalis said it wasn't.

Well wasn't the "argument" that i jumped into about "keys and buttons"? I never said anything about you defending or not defending hip hop. Where did this come from? :wtf

[peewee's lovechild]

You just did.

Quote me where I insulted his kids or would be kids.

Go ahead.

I'll be waiting.

[CuckingFunt]

Quote me where I insulted his kids or would be kids.

Go ahead.

I'll be waiting.


Because if you are, then it will be your children getting fucked for money because they will inherit your stupidity.

I'm guessing this is the jab in question.

[peewee's lovechild]

Actually I've been reading this thread the entire time and in previous similar threads, I have made my feelings on this issue known. Cucking Funt pretty much summed up my feelings on music and the way people judge it. She's a smart woman.

I understand exactly what the argument between you and mono was about. My point is, keys and buttons are virtually the same thing. It's like arguing between the difference of a paperclip and a staple. They aren't exactly the same thing, but they serve the same fucking purpose, to hold shit together. Its a retarded argument, in which you knew exactly what mono was referring to, but you just chose to have to act like a fucking asshole about it.

You already know my answer to the question. You never answered mine though. But I already know you know the answer to it, and if you dont, as DannyB would say, go eat a bag of dicks.

Buttons and keys are not the same:


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
but·ton
–noun 1. a small disk, knob, or the like for sewing or otherwise attaching to an article, as of clothing, serving as a fastening when passed through a buttonhole or loop.
2. anything resembling a button, esp. in being small and round, as any of various candies, ornaments, tags, identification badges, reflectors, markers, etc.
3. a badge or emblem bearing a name, slogan, identifying figure, etc., for wear on the lapel, dress, etc.: campaign buttons.
4. any small knob or disk pressed to activate an electric circuit, release a spring, or otherwise operate or open a machine, small door, toy, etc.
5. Botany. a bud or other protuberant part of a plant.
6. Mycology. a. a young or undeveloped mushroom.
b. any protuberant part of a fungus.

7. Zoology. any of various small parts or structures resembling a button, as the rattle at the tip of the tail in a very young rattlesnake.
8. Boxing Informal. the point of the chin.
9. Also called turn button. a fastener for a door, window, etc., having two arms and rotating on a pivot that is attached to the frame.
10. Metallurgy. (in assaying) a small globule or lump of metal at the bottom of a crucible after fusion.
11. Fencing. the protective, blunting knob fixed to the point of a foil.
12. Horology. crown (def. 19).
13. Computers. (in a graphical user interface) any of the small, labeled areas upon which the user can click with a mouse to choose an option.
–verb (used with object) 14. to fasten with a button or buttons: She quickly buttoned her coat.
15. to insert (a button) in a buttonhole or loop: He buttoned the top button of his shirt.
16. to provide (something) with a button or buttons.
–verb (used without object) 17. to be capable of being buttoned: This coat buttons, but that one zips.
—Idioms18. button up, Informal. a. Also, button one's lip. to become or keep silent.
b. to fasten securely; close up: Within a short time, everything on the submarine was buttoned up.
c. to fasten fully or put on, esp. an outer garment: Button up before going out.
d. to complete successfully; finish: The report is all buttoned up.

19. have all one's buttons, Informal. to be mentally competent, alert, and sane; have all one's wits: At 106 she still has all her buttons.
20. on the button, Informal. exactly as desired, expected, specified, etc.: The prediction for snow was right on the button.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
key
–noun 1. a small metal instrument specially cut to fit into a lock and move its bolt.
2. any of various devices resembling or functioning as a key: the key of a clock.
3. key card.
4. something that affords a means of access: the key to happiness.
5. something that secures or controls entrance to a place: Gibraltar is the key to the Mediterranean.
6. something that affords a means of clarifying a problem.
7. a book, pamphlet, or other text containing the solutions or translations of material given elsewhere, as testing exercises.
8. a systematic explanation of abbreviations, symbols, etc., used in a dictionary, map, etc.: pronunciation key. Compare legend (def. 4).
9. the system, method, pattern, etc., used to decode or decipher a cryptogram, as a code book, machine setting, or key word.
10. one of a set of marked parts, designated areas, or levers pressed in operating a typewriter, computer terminal, calculator, etc.
11. a manually operated lever for opening and closing an electric circuit, used to produce signals in telegraphy.
12. Music. a. (in a keyboard instrument) one of the levers that when depressed by the performer sets in motion the playing mechanism.
b. (on a woodwind instrument) a metal lever that opens and closes a vent.
c. the relationship perceived between all tones in a given unit of music and a single tone or a keynote; tonality.
d. the principal tonality of a composition: a symphony in the key of C minor.
e. the keynote or tonic of a scale.

13. tone or pitch, as of voice: to speak in a high key.
14. mood or characteristic style, as of expression or thought: He writes in a melancholy key.
15. degree of intensity, as of feeling or action.
16. a pin, bolt, wedge, or other piece inserted in a hole or space to lock or hold parts of a mechanism or structure together; a cotter.
17. a small piece of steel fitting into matching slots of a hub of a wheel or the like and the shaft on which the wheel is mounted so that torque is transmitted from one to the other.
18. a contrivance for grasping and turning a bolt, nut, etc.
19. Computers. a field or group of characters within a record that identifies the record, establishing its position among sorted records, and/or provides information about its contents.
20. (in a series of advertisements or announcements soliciting replies) a unique code inserted for each medium used, to determine the relative effectiveness of the media.
21. Electricity. a. a device for opening and closing electrical contacts.
b. a hand-operated switching device ordinarily formed of concealed spring contacts with an exposed handle or push button, capable of switching one or more parts of a circuit.

22. Biology. a systematic tabular classification of the significant characteristics of the members of a group of organisms to facilitate identification and comparison.
23. Masonry. a keystone.
24. Architecture. (in a ribbed vault) a stone, as a boss, at the intersection of two or more ribs.
25. Masonry, Carpentry. a wedge, as for tightening a joint or splitting a stone or timber.
26. Carpentry. a small piece of wood set into a timber across the grain to prevent warping.
27. Building Trades. any grooving or roughness applied to a surface to improve its bond with another surface.
28. Basketball. keyhole (def. 2).
29. Photography. the dominant tonal value of a picture, a high-key picture having light tonal values and minimal contrast and a low-key picture being generally dark with minimal contrast.
30. Painting. the tonal value and intensity of a color or range of colors: Rembrandt's colors are characterized by their low key.
31. Botany. a samara.
32. (initial capital letter) a member of the House of Keys.
33. keys, spiritual authority.
–adjective 34. chief; major; important; essential; fundamental; pivotal: a key person in the company; key industries.
–verb (used with object) 35. to regulate or adjust (actions, thoughts, speech, etc.) to a particular state or activity; bring into conformity: to key one's speech to the intellectual level of the audience.
36. Music. to regulate the key or pitch of.









Not the same thing at all.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm guessing this is the jab in question.

That was in response to what he told me.

Never before that did I say anything to him about any of his kids or would-be kids.

[Extra Stout]

You press a button, but depress a key. And in this context, "de" means "they're totally different even though to lesser minds they seem pretty much the same."

[peewee's lovechild]

Pianos don't have buttons.
They have keys.

Calling them buttons is beyond ignorant.


I can't wait till your daughter becomes a meth-addict stripper, shaking her snatch in front of horny old men with rap music playing in the background.


So, are you still saying that pianos have buttons?

Because if you are, then it will be your children getting fucked for money because they will inherit your stupidity.




That was the order in which it happened.

[peewee's lovechild]

You press a button, but depress a key. And in this context, "de" means "they're totally different even though to lesser minds they seem pretty much the same."

Nice.

[stretch]

That was in response to what he told me.

Never before that did I say anything to him about any of his kids or would-be kids.

You still said it. Thus you are no better than him.

[Extra Stout]

Why is that on a piano the white keys play the true notes, while the black keys are smaller and play flats and sharps? That's racist.

[CuckingFunt]

That was in response to what he told me.

Never before that did I say anything to him about any of his kids or would-be kids.

I know.

I saw it as aimed more at mono himself than at his future progeny, personally, but I'm still guessing that's the quote to which Stretch was referring.

[peewee's lovechild]

You still said it. Thus you are no better than him.

You make all the sense in the world.

(This coming from a douche who defends the theory that pianos have buttons)

[stretch]

I still never said they are the same thing. I just say that they serve the same purpose. Use them, and you get a type of reaction from whatever the key/button is used for.

[peewee's lovechild]

I know.

I saw it as aimed more at mono himself than at his future progeny, personally, but I'm still guessing that's the quote to which Stretch was referring.

That would make Stretch a dumbass, but we all know that already.

[stretch]

This coming from a douche who defends the theory that pianos have buttons

Never said that. Show me where I said it.

[peewee's lovechild]

I still never said they are the same thing. I just say that they serve the same purpose. Use them, and you get a type of reaction from whatever the key/button is used for.

Nice.

[ATRAIN]

Hip Hop died when J-5 Broke up

[Extra Stout]

I'm going to hit some buttons on my telephone keypad and dial up somebody who can solve this "button/key" conundrum.

[peewee's lovechild]

Why is that on a piano the white keys play the true notes, while the black keys are smaller and play flats and sharps? That's racist.

:lol

I actually prefer the black keys. The minors sound so much better, in my opinion.

[peewee's lovechild]

Hip Hop died when J-5 Broke up

Who was she?

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm going to hit some buttons on my telephone keypad and dial up somebody who can solve this "button/key" conundrum.

:lmao

[CuckingFunt]

That would make Stretch a dumbass, but we all know that already.

My pride won't let me refer to anyone who just called me smart as a dumbass, but I will say I read your comment differently than he did.

[stretch]

I'm going to hit some buttons on my telephone keypad and dial up somebody who can solve this "button/key" conundrum.

I personally don't have any issue with it, or are arguing whether they are different or not. All I have said is that they serve the same purpose, and nitpicking about them is really stupid, considering everyone knew what Mono meant.

[stretch]

My pride won't let me refer to anyone who just called me smart as a dumbass, but I will say I read your comment differently than he did.

I understand how his comment was directed. But he did make mention of any children, or would be children in his comment to Mono, which was unneccesary. I didn't defend Mono either. From the get-go, I felt this argument was stupid, as was evidenced when i said that nitpicking about the difference between a "key" and a "button" is really pointless and dumb.

[peewee's lovechild]

Mono meant that pianos have buttons, because someone before that made a comment about rappers pressing buttons to get their music (which is basically true).

Mono posted a picture of a piano and made the comment that it had buttons.

You defended him on this.

Now you look like a dumbass.

[peewee's lovechild]

I understand how his comment was directed. But he did make mention of any children, or would be children in his comment to Mono, which was unneccesary. I didn't defend Mono either. From the get-go, I felt this argument was stupid, as was evidenced when i said that nitpicking about the difference between a "key" and a "button" is really pointless and dumb.

But, you call me out on it when Mono said shit about my kid?

You're retarded.

[peewee's lovechild]

BTW, it's not nitpicking when buttons and keys are two completely different things.

You're just the dumbest fuck in the world.

[stretch]

But, you call me out on it when Mono said shit about my kid?

You're retarded.

Because you were the one whining about it like a little bitch who cares entirely too much about what people say on an internet forum. Mono never said anything in response. I never condoned what he said either.

[ATRAIN]

Who was she?

Jurassic 5

[stretch]

You defended him on this.

Now you look like a dumbass.

I really didn't defend him. I just said its stupid to make an argument on the difference between "keys" and "buttons".

[stretch]

BTW, it's not nitpicking when buttons and keys are two completely different things.

You're just the dumbest fuck in the world.

Whatever. You just are now choosing to be ignorant. I'm not going to debate this stupid "key" and "button" shit anymore, as it was pointless to begin with, and still is pointless. I've stated my opinions, and I will leave it at that, as you are too ignorant to even read any fuckin posts.

[peewee's lovechild]

Because you were the one whining about it like a little bitch who cares entirely too much about what people say on an internet forum. Mono never said anything in response. I never condoned what he said either.

You haven't condemned what he said.

[Extra Stout]

Enough of this nitpicking. Can't we just get back to denigrating an entire genre of music based upon limited examples, in order to express racial animosity in an indirect way?

[peewee's lovechild]

Whatever. You just are now choosing to be ignorant. I'm not going to debate this stupid "key" and "button" shit anymore, as it was pointless to begin with, and still is pointless. I've stated my opinions, and I will leave it at that, as you are too ignorant to even read any fuckin posts.

Go back and read the definitions.

Oh look, I have keys on my shirt. I mean, because buttons = keys and what not.

[peewee's lovechild]

Enough of this nitpicking. Can't we just get back to denigrating an entire genre of music based upon limited examples, in order to express racial animosity in an indirect way?

Yea, let's go back to having fun.

Back to a time before keys became buttons.

[stretch]

You haven't condemned what he said.

Mono, I condemn what you said, because peewee is such a butthurt bastard over something you said to him on an internet forum.

[stretch]

Go back and read the definitions.

Oh look, I have keys on my shirt. I mean, because buttons = keys and what not.

lame

[monosylab1k]

:lmao

[monosylab1k]

anyways, back on topic, I can't wait to unlock some doors with my piano keys.

[peewee's lovechild]

anyways, back on topic, I can't wait to unlock some doors with my piano keys.

:lol

Now that was funny.

[Kermit]

So, we've gone from hip-hop being dead to female progeny becoming strippers. I like the latter topic better.

[Anti.Hero]

You press a button, but depress a key. And in this context, "de" means "they're totally different even though to lesser minds they seem pretty much the same."

lesser minds? STFU

It was funny and we all got the point.

[Ignignokt]

Enough of this nitpicking. Can't we just get back to denigrating an entire genre of music based upon limited examples, in order to express racial animosity in an indirect way?

Oh looky here, i'm "Mr. Sarcastic Cynical Self Depricating White Guy", i'm so original.

[lefty]

"I like Christian rock. It's very positive. It's not like those real musicians who think they're so cool and hip."

"I'm against all "it's me"s. So self-absorbed and egotistical, it's
like those hip musicians with their complicated shoes!"

Sincerely,

George Costanza

Man, nothings tops that sitcom :lol

[Ignignokt]

It's funny that the hip hop apologist are raving mad?

I would like to point out their whole flawed premise(s).

1. "You can't generalize hip hop because most of the hip hop music you here is popular and is made for the airwaves, real underground hip hop is where the talent is at."

2. "Hip hop, is not as easy as you claim. Try making a hip hop album and see if it becomes succesful."


Argument 1 contradicts argument 2. So to prove that hip hop is a difficult artform to master, argument 2 is rendered useless by argument 1.

Another thing. Pushing a piano button will not get you playing a piano sonata from the romantic era.

Pushing a computer button, or various computer buttons can get you to play a piano sonata on a computer, and if you wanted to you could splice the track and add a counter hip hop beat to make it a full hip hop track.

Making a hip hop track took probably 2 days to learn how to do, and probably 45 minutes to accomplish.

Playing a Classical piece on the piano, well. It takes a lifetime, putting in 5 hrs a day, just to approach that master level, and it takes 1 month to learn the song, 1-2 months to get it concert ready. After that it takes 30 min every other day to maintain that peice playable.

Where with hip hop, once you got the lyrics down, all you have to do is casually listen to it maybe once a month to keep that song in concert shape.

Now, i'm not singling out hip hop. But this goes with pop aswell. It doesn't take much skill to become a pop artist like brittney spears. Although there are quite a few pop/rock composers who recieved formal training, Sting for example, you don''t have to be Sting, and by that i mean, have actual musical talent and composition skills to write and perform hits.

In pop music, artist have producers, managers, composers, songwriters, studio musicians, marketers and publicist who do all the laborious tasks to bring you the finished succesfully marketed product.

Same with hip hop, hip hop requires talent. And by talent i mean some small musical talent, lots of marketing, and buisiness talent.

To make a succesful hip hop artist one has to fit an image more than not, there are exceptions, and those exceptions like Eminem, beastie boys, and other non black urban cultured personas probably had to work on their artform more to make up for the lack of "cred" aswell as having to find luck and some business savy and promotion.

But if you're black, and you can sell yourself an image. All you need is to have some sort of charisma, know somebody, hire some "ghost writers" and have a friend work on your tracks while you rehearse the lines to how you see fit.

Not much went into the musical process in this example, the success was attributed to marketing, and image, and some musical competence to shove a repetitive looped hip hop song for people to dance to at some club.


And if you wanted to hit a different sub genre in hip hop, one whose music is more about social issues amd awareness. One would spend alot of time listening to library chock full of rap/hip hop repertoire. they would have to submerge themselves into the music to develop an ear for hip hop, then they would have to atleast be somewhat intellectual to rap about "issues". But when idiots like Mos Def get respect in this artform, don't take offense if outsiders laugh you off for defending hip hop's virtues.

For every Mos Def out there, there is a Common, KRS one, to probably counterbalance the idiocy.

But don't ever, try to say that it takes lots of musical talent to do hip hop. THat's bull.

Just because there's exceptions to the rule, that doesn't negate the fact that one can make it big on hip hop with marginal talent. 50 cent is a good example.

Some of these same arguments I use can go for alot of rock, today, and even dating back to when rock first became commercial starting with elvis, who in my oppinion had talent, albeit most of his songs where probably not his originals.

atleast with rock you have to practice your songs and keep them up. With most of hip hop all you have to do is pop up your tracks on the way to the performance and rehearse the lyrics while you eatin' you Big mac.

Hip is very versatile, and one of the musical artforms that doesn't demand alot out of the artist.

Everheard a live rock concert and a live hip hop concert, they both suck at times. But with the hip hop concert all the dude had to do was memorize his own songs, but somehow he managed to sound way different than his album. He sounds too aggressive because of the crowd noise, and he lost some of his smoothness because the acoustics are different in the open air. But he didn't have to rehearse, and he doesn't have to be in key. He just had to show up. Same goes with the lip synching artist in the pop world.

Inconclusion.

Kanye does not equate to Chopin in musical talent, hip hop does require talent, but most of that talent is less musical than it is marketibility and image.

[monosylab1k]

But when idiots like Mos Def get respect in this artform

ever listened to Mos Def?

[leemajors]

Everyone can go back and forth posting lyrics until we all turn blue in the fingers, but it won't change the fact that there are examples of crap and brilliance in every single genre of music. Snoop Dogg is no more accurate a representation of the whole of rap/hip hop than Marilyn Manson is for the whole of rock, or Toby Keith is for the whole of country.

You want to say that you don't like specific artists, or specific songs, or specific trends associated with hip hop culture? Fine. Go nuts. You want to say that, even when it's good and/or responsible, it's just a style that you don't like? Have at it. But don't expect to unilaterally declare ALL rap/hip hop to be shitty and irresponsible, unless you've actually heard every song written/performed by every artist, without giving up all rights to a logical argument. None of us are all-seeing, all-knowing beings (no matter how close some of us may get), and to suggest that you are completely negates your credibility in this discussion.




And, for the record, this post isn't directed at any one poster so much as it is directed at the thread in general.

i'm getting ready for Toby Keith's new movie myself:


"Beer for My Horses," written, produced and starring country singer Toby Keith.

"Beer," which is the same title as his country music single, features co-writer Rodney Carrington, Claire Forlani ("CSI: NY"), guitarist Ted Nugent, and cameos by country icon Willie Nelson and Tom Skerritt.

[igningokt]

It's funny that the hip hop apologist are raving mad?

I would like to point out their whole flawed premise(s).

1. "You can't generalize hip hop because most of the hip hop music you here is popular and is made for the airwaves, real underground hip hop is where the talent is at."

2. "Hip hop, is not as easy as you claim. Try making a hip hop album and see if it becomes succesful."


Argument 1 contradicts argument 2. So to prove that hip hop is a difficult artform to master, argument 2 is rendered useless by argument 1.

Another thing. Pushing a piano button will not get you playing a piano sonata from the romantic era.

Pushing a computer button, or various computer buttons can get you to play a piano sonata on a computer, and if you wanted to you could splice the track and add a counter hip hop beat to make it a full hip hop track.

Making a hip hop track took probably 2 days to learn how to do, and probably 45 minutes to accomplish.

Playing a Classical piece on the piano, well. It takes a lifetime, putting in 5 hrs a day, just to approach that master level, and it takes 1 month to learn the song, 1-2 months to get it concert ready. After that it takes 30 min every other day to maintain that peice playable.

Where with hip hop, once you got the lyrics down, all you have to do is casually listen to it maybe once a month to keep that song in concert shape.

Now, i'm not singling out hip hop. But this goes with pop aswell. It doesn't take much skill to become a pop artist like brittney spears. Although there are quite a few pop/rock composers who recieved formal training, Sting for example, you don''t have to be Sting, and by that i mean, have actual musical talent and composition skills to write and perform hits.

In pop music, artist have producers, managers, composers, songwriters, studio musicians, marketers and publicist who do all the laborious tasks to bring you the finished succesfully marketed product.

Same with hip hop, hip hop requires talent. And by talent i mean some small musical talent, lots of marketing, and buisiness talent.

To make a succesful hip hop artist one has to fit an image more than not, there are exceptions, and those exceptions like Eminem, beastie boys, and other non black urban cultured personas probably had to work on their artform more to make up for the lack of "cred" aswell as having to find luck and some business savy and promotion.

But if you're black, and you can sell yourself an image. All you need is to have some sort of charisma, know somebody, hire some "ghost writers" and have a friend work on your tracks while you rehearse the lines to how you see fit.

Not much went into the musical process in this example, the success was attributed to marketing, and image, and some musical competence to shove a repetitive looped hip hop song for people to dance to at some club.


And if you wanted to hit a different sub genre in hip hop, one whose music is more about social issues amd awareness. One would spend alot of time listening to library chock full of rap/hip hop repertoire. they would have to submerge themselves into the music to develop an ear for hip hop, then they would have to atleast be somewhat intellectual to rap about "issues". But when idiots like Mos Def get respect in this artform, don't take offense if outsiders laugh you off for defending hip hop's virtues.

For every Mos Def out there, there is a Common, KRS one, to probably counterbalance the idiocy.

But don't ever, try to say that it takes lots of musical talent to do hip hop. THat's bull.

Just because there's exceptions to the rule, that doesn't negate the fact that one can make it big on hip hop with marginal talent. 50 cent is a good example.

Some of these same arguments I use can go for alot of rock, today, and even dating back to when rock first became commercial starting with elvis, who in my oppinion had talent, albeit most of his songs where probably not his originals.

atleast with rock you have to practice your songs and keep them up. With most of hip hop all you have to do is pop up your tracks on the way to the performance and rehearse the lyrics while you eatin' you Big mac.

Hip is very versatile, and one of the musical artforms that doesn't demand alot out of the artist.

Everheard a live rock concert and a live hip hop concert, they both suck at times. But with the hip hop concert all the dude had to do was memorize his own songs, but somehow he managed to sound way different than his album. He sounds too aggressive because of the crowd noise, and he lost some of his smoothness because the acoustics are different in the open air. But he didn't have to rehearse, and he doesn't have to be in key. He just had to show up. Same goes with the lip synching artist in the pop world.

Inconclusion.

Kanye does not equate to Chopin in musical talent, hip hop does require talent, but most of that talent is less musical than it is marketibility and image.


Nevermind. Paying attention to this kind of shit was your first mistake.

[leemajors]

Herbie Hancock and Grandmaster DXT made some sweet non-music:

S7dAxvj2mlU

[rAm]

Those of you saying making a Hip-Hop beat is easy have obviously never attempted to make one. Making any type of music sound good is a skill that a monkey could never learn, and comparing hip-hop to monkey's making music is pretty racist.

[leemajors]

Those of you saying making a Hip-Hop beat is easy have obviously never attempted to make one. Making any type of music sound good is a skill that a monkey could never learn, and comparing hip-hop to monkey's making music is pretty racist.

anyone can make a hip hop beat, or any kind of song. more than likely it will suck. making a good one is another matter entirely.

[Ignignokt]

ever listened to Mos Def?

yes, you're an idiot if you take his lyrics seriously.

[Ignignokt]

anyone can make a hip hop beat, or any kind of song. more than likely it will suck. making a good one is another matter entirely.

that in itself is up to taste. you're right though. still it takes minimal talent to make a good hip hop beat.

writing lyrics is another thing, but that is another skill in itself.

[peewee's lovechild]

Mos Def came out in Real Time with Bill Maher.

He was annoying as hell.

He believes that we never landed on the moon.
He's sure about it.

That's all he talked about.

[monosylab1k]

yes, you're an idiot if you take his lyrics seriously.

KRS-One had a "beef" with Nelly. You're an idiot if you take his lyrics seriously.

[Ignignokt]

Those of you saying making a Hip-Hop beat is easy have obviously never attempted to make one. Making any type of music sound good is a skill that a monkey could never learn, and comparing hip-hop to monkey's making music is pretty racist.

Hip hop is so easy even a monkey can do it is not racist. You find it racist, is your problem, if you're reading it as me saying " Hip hop artist are monkeys", then you have reading comprehension problems.

I could have said, hip hop music is so easy a dog or dolphin could do it, would be impossible because dogs don't have the physical capabiltiy to handle a keyboard where as a monkey can.

Norteno guitar is so easy a monkey can do it, there i'm racist.

:lmao

[Ignignokt]

KRS-One had a "beef" with Nelly. You're an idiot if you take his lyrics seriously.

You're right, i'd be an idiot if i took both of those seriously, fortunately that's not my problem. KRS One is not as idiotic as Mos Def.

[Kermit]

You're right, i'd be an idiot if i took both of those seriously, fortunately that's not my problem. KRS One is not as idiotic as Mos Def.

Yeah, I don't know about that...

"I was asked about why hiphop has not engaged the current situation more (meaning 9/11), my response was "because it does not affect us, or at least we don’t perceive that it affects us, 9/11 happened to them". I went on to say that "I am speaking for the culture now; I am not speaking my personal opinion." I continued to say; "9/11 affected them down the block; the rich, the powerful those that are oppressing us as a culture. Sony, RCA or BMG, Universal, the radio stations, Clear Channel, Viacom with BET and MTV, those are our oppressors, those are the people that we're trying to overcome in hiphop everyday, this is a daily thing. We cheered when 9/11 happened in New York and say that proudly here. Because when we were down at the trade center we were getting hit over the head by cops, told that we can’t come in this building, hustled down to the train station because of the way we dressed and talked, and so on, we were racially profiled. So, when the planes hit the building we were like, "mmmm, justice." And just as I began to say "now of course a lot of our friends and family were lost there as well" I was interrupted..."

-Krs-One

[monosylab1k]

KRS One is not as idiotic as Mos Def.

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

[Ignignokt]

Herbie Hancock and Grandmaster DXT made some sweet non-music:

S7dAxvj2mlU

Herbi Hancock is a jazz legend, he did many works that were legendery. His Headhunter's album is awesome, nevertheless.

You posting a youtube video of him doing a hip hop classic, is a silly argument for promoting hip hop's virtues.

I could also post a video of Michael Jordan playing miniature golf.

To say that miniature golf takes an athletic gift would be assinine.

[Ignignokt]

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lol
I'm sorry if i couldn't distinguish the level of stupidity over two non intelligent beings.

Even if Mos Def were slightly more intelligent thatn KRS one, that would still make one Dumb and the other Dumber, making you whose making a big issue about it below the level of downsyndromed manatees.

[Ignignokt]

:lmao
EvO5kD4yr1Y










:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao


indeed.

[monosylab1k]

:lol
I'm sorry if i couldn't distinguish the level of stupidity over two non intelligent beings.


For every Mos Def out there, there is a Common, KRS one, to probably counterbalance the idiocy.

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

[monosylab1k]

not that there's anything wrong with KRS-One, but inevitably the hip hop douchebags who don't know shit will try and assert their supreme knowlege by pointing out "good" hip-hop like KRS-One, Doug E. Fresh, and Rakim.

Except when they completely contradict themselves a few posts later.

[leemajors]

Herbi Hancock is a jazz legend, he did many works that were legendery. His Headhunter's album is awesome, nevertheless.

You posting a youtube video of him doing a hip hop classic, is a silly argument for promoting hip hop's virtues.

I could also post a video of Michael Jordan playing miniature golf.

To say that miniature golf takes an athletic gift would be assinine.

it's more about the legitimacy of the turntable as an "instrument" as anything else. and yes, Herbie Hancock incorporating hip hop into his music does lend it credence as "music." your analogies fall flat at best.

[CuckingFunt]

EvO5kD4yr1Y

If this was posted as an example of Mos Def's lack of intelligence, then I must be one dumb motherfucker. Except for the fact that he doesn't believe we landed on the moon, doesn't believe that Bin Laden was behind 9/11, and doesn't believe that OJ killed Nicole (all of which made up about 5 seconds of this clip), I agree with every word he said.

Cornell West, too, but I've always thought he was brilliant.

[TheSanityAnnex]

EvO5kD4yr1Y

If this was posted as an example of Mos Def's lack on intelligence, then I must be one dumb motherfucker. Indeed. Mos Def is one of the most intelligent people involved in hip hop.

[Fillmoe]

Cornell West is one smart motherfucker!


http://www.zshare.net/audio/141003812043748f/

CRACK BLEND!

[Ignignokt]

not that there's anything wrong with KRS-One, but inevitably the hip hop douchebags who don't know shit will try and assert their supreme knowlege by pointing out "good" hip-hop like KRS-One, Doug E. Fresh, and Rakim.

Except when they completely contradict themselves a few posts later.

i don't have problem with you calling me a douchebag, but im no hip hop anything, i don't care for it. But yeah, Mos Def is an idiot. Being in denial about OBL, and ignoring real bloodshed in order to keep his black propaganda agenda revolving, yeah, he's mos def an idiot.

I'm sorry if you're the biggest fan of hip hop, and you think it's the best artform of music out there. You're wrong, by alot.

[Ignignokt]

it's more about the legitimacy of the turntable as an "instrument" as anything else. and yes, Herbie Hancock incorporating hip hop into his music does lend it credence as "music." your analogies fall flat at best.



yeah, it's a very disciplined artform, we get it. Herbia Hancock proved it. Case closed.:lol

[MannyIsGod]

Mono's owning a ton of people.

[Ignignokt]

Mono's owning a ton of people.

I guess those people didn't pay attention to the old proverb, "Never argue with an idiot..."

[Ignignokt]

Indeed. Mos Def is one of the most intelligent people involved in hip hop.

Yeah, you're doing a heckuva job convincing the otherside that hip hop is full of idiots.

[Ignignokt]

mos def + idiot = 127,000 google matches.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mos+def+idiot

KRS one + idiot = 43,600 google matches.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=krs+one+idiot

gnarls barkley sucks = 211,000 google matches.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=gnarls+barkley+sucks&spell=1

How's dem KFC bowls tasting MannyisPrimate and Monoslaysajdfdsfiikkeaflsdfekkkk.

[Ignignokt]

Herbie Hancock

RgyZFEgEk9I

:lmao, reminds me of Red vs blue.

[duckdick]

6pp6WC1Ocz4

[Ignignokt]

6pp6WC1Ocz4
:sleep

lame.

[duckdick]

bGdCeMayUjk

[duckdick]

DMup6VfKU2Q

best song ever
:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::fla2::f lag::flag::lobt::lob:

[Spur-Addict]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHyRbN6-4wE

LISTEN

[CuckingFunt]

gnarls barkley sucks = 211,000 google matches.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=gnarls+barkley+sucks&spell=1

Wait a tick... Gnarls Barkley is rap?

Since when?

That must be on their yet-to-be-released third album, because there's not one moment of rap on either of the two albums that I own.

[Ignignokt]

Wait a tick... Gnarls Barkley is rap?

Since when?

That must be on their yet-to-be-released third album, because there's not one moment of rap on either of the two albums that I own.

no they're not rap, i just brought it up because months ago people here were defending gnarles barkley, and i remember you and manny vehemently defending that pop garbage.

[CuckingFunt]

no they're not rap, i just brought it up because months ago people here were defending gnarles barkley, and i remember you and manny vehemently defending that pop garbage.

I doubt I vehemently defended it, since I tend to avoid arguments of personal taste, but I probably mentioned liking it.

[Fillmoe]

http://www.zshare.net/audio/1416096303719ddb/


TERMANOLOGY!

[Cheese]

http://www.zshare.net/audio/1416096303719ddb/


TERMANOLOGY!

Now that right there is hot..I dig the melodic flow with the lyrical content.

Heres another with the melodic flow and beats with content only Devin incorporates humor in most of his songs.A little misogynistic sometimes,but it keeps me entertained.Not all of it is recommended for kids,but if people would look at it as just "entertainment",we wouldnt have the problems we have.

TE4XjpE54B8

[monosylab1k]

2pIjH50bOJ4

[Ignignokt]

tD5WlQ54Sg0&feature=related

when 911 happened, i didn't think "Man you should see how my people struggled, this is nothing of how shit goes down for my people.". I thought, "Damn, real blood, skin, spirit, and water is being incensed, people are screaming, crying, all people of all walks of life are being slained, pround men, brave women and the weak are indiscriminately being slaughtered.".

i wasn't thinking "Brown agenda, Brown agenda, Brown agenda".

Now despite that there are thruths to Mos Defs ideology, he still has a brain capable of retaining the good and bad from every point of view. But instead he chooses to paint the world through his scope and that's when he ceases to be an intellectual and becomes and idealogue.

Mos Def is sad, i hope no one takes him seriously. But i have no control over stupidity.

[Spur-Addict]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHyRbN6-4wE

LISTEN

Don't act like like none of you watched this.

[TheSanityAnnex]

tD5WlQ54Sg0&feature=related


Besides the stupid chorus, that song rings true.

[InRareForm]

4jNyr6BJZuI

[Ginobilly]

i think Hip Hop/Raps purpose is to relieve the rebellious in each of one of us. IE sometimes you gotta say that big fuck you to the infastructure of society sometimes . When you have troubles and tribulations in your life.Another example; your girlfriend cheating on you and breaking up. What are you going to do? Put some Enrique Iglesias on your radio and pretend nothing happened? Or are you going to thump some fuckin Dre or 3 6 mafia degrading women, calling em ho's and sluts, get krunk and smoke a blunt on your to the club?

Hip hip serves it's purpose for when those times (te vale verga todo) you don't give a fuck about nothing mode.

[InRareForm]

9QSbAK8QdJg

cunninlynguists - interlude 1

8E0OQaDnq3c

cunninlynguists - damnation interlude

beautiful hip hop interludes are highly underrated.

for the naysayers it should interest you because you won't have to listen to a person rapping.

[Fabbs]

bGdCeMayUjk

:lol just saw this while scrolling.

[FrostKing]

What's "hip hop"?

[resistanze]

What's "hip hop"?

What the Germans yelled at the Poles on the chain gang.

[Clipper Nation]

It will die when it gets to the point where everything's been done already and there's no room for innovation anymore. At that point, another genre that has more interesting things going on will replace it.

It's the same thing that happened to rock. Hip-hop is a newer genre, though, so we're talking decades from now here.

[Clipper Nation]

Man, I just noticed that this thread is from 2008. Here's some perspective for you guys: just a few months after all these posts about how hip-hop is dead, it's all the same and has nothing interesting to say, Kanye dropped 808s and changed the genre forever. And since then, there's been other new movements like cloud rap, trap and the SoundCloud scene.

Like I said, it's way too soon to write off hip-hop. It's still a vibrant genre with a lot of different directions it can go in.

[Spurminator]

Yep. By far the most interesting and innovative of the major genres of music right now.

I miss new and interesting rock, but we're at the point where the most viable versions of that genre are karaoke-style covers by 40 year olds and a band whose popularity is a direct result of their ability to sound like Led Zeppelin. Even a lot of the good new indie rock stuff sounds like a nostalgia exercise.

[spurraider21]

Yep. By far the most interesting and innovative of the major genres of music right now.

I miss new and interesting rock, but we're at the point where the most viable versions of that genre are karaoke-style covers by 40 year olds and a band whose popularity is a direct result of their ability to sound like Led Zeppelin. Even a lot of the good new indie rock stuff sounds like a nostalgia exercise.
mhm. i still maintain that the best rock album that's come out in the last 25 years is Wolfmother by Wolfmother... but as you said, they were basically really good at sounding like led zep with a singer that sounds like ozzy

then the band had a major lineup change and their follow up album was trash

[Spurminator]

mhm. i still maintain that the best rock album that's come out in the last 25 years is Wolfmother by Wolfmother... but as you said, they were basically really good at sounding like led zep with a singer that sounds like ozzy

then the band had a major lineup change and their follow up album was trash

And that was like 2005 wasn't it?

I was talking about Greta Van Fleet, for the record.

[Bynumite]

Rock listeners always go back to the classics and look down upon most modern acts for not being as great.

Hip Hop is the complete opposite. The 14 year old kid listening to lil uzi or whatever has no idea who the fuck Nas is :lol

Don't really see the genre going away anytime soon, as long as they keep replacing the old with the new, regardless of quality.

[spurraider21]

And that was like 2005 wasn't it?

I was talking about Greta Van Fleet, for the record.
holy shit i didnt realize it was that long ago :lol

and yeah there are some others too, i didnt think you were necessarily talking about wolfmother, but i agree with your overall assessment. muse is another band that showed a lot of promise... but they've just tried to emulate queen. and i mean they do a pretty good job, and they're fantastic live, but like you said, they are liked because they tap into nostalgia. united states of eurasia is such a shameless/egregious re-imagining of bohemian rhapsody that it goes beyond "influence"

[Spurminator]

holy shit i didnt realize it was that long ago :lol

and yeah there are some others too, i didnt think you were necessarily talking about wolfmother, but i agree with your overall assessment. muse is another band that showed a lot of promise... but they've just tried to emulate queen. and i mean they do a pretty good job, and they're fantastic live, but like you said, they are liked because they tap into nostalgia. united states of eurasia is such a shameless/egregious re-imagining of bohemian rhapsody that it goes beyond "influence"

Yeah I preferred Muse when they sounded like early Radiohead.

[spurraider21]

Rock listeners always go back to the classics and look down upon most modern acts for not being as great.

Hip Hop is the complete opposite. The 14 year old kid listening to lil uzi or whatever has no idea who the fuck Nas is :lol

Don't really see the genre going away anytime soon, as long as they keep replacing the old with the new, regardless of quality.
it just feels like everything has been done in rock. hip hop has a lot of room to grow and evolve tbh. rock did too, and it changed a lot through the decades. but there hasn't been good innovation for some time.

hip hop has been in the mainstream for about 30 years or so. wouldn't be surprised if its staying power continues.

[FrostKing]

"Modern hip hop" = talking over a sampled European techno beat. Innovative lol. How do you change talking?
Faster, slower, deeper, higher.

Rock is played in every corner of the globe, there is no escaping it from restaurants, to films, to even churches. Hip hop is only centralized in specific areas, mostly Western. Unless I'm watching Western television, I barely even know it exists. This is a NBA forum so the demographic on this subject is apparent.

Hip hop is too speech dependent. How many of you listen to non-English hip hop? Rock because of instruments is not constraint by this. This is why Hip Hop is also star dominated. It is mostly an image and backed by the industry. A quality rock song doesn't need all that. I'm guessing your artist collection of rock is far more diverse

[midnightpulp]

it just feels like everything has been done in rock. hip hop has a lot of room to grow and evolve tbh. rock did too, and it changed a lot through the decades. but there hasn't been good innovation for some time.

hip hop has been in the mainstream for about 30 years or so. wouldn't be surprised if its staying power continues.

I always dislike when the "innovation" buzzword is applied to any form of art and/or is somehow used as a value descriptor of art. How can art "innovate" anything, really? Applying the innovative tag to art attempts to define it in terms of technological progress where innovation means something that does the job of the thing it replaced cheaper and more efficiently (i.e. horse carriages to cars). Artistic value is obviously subjective, and the primary elements of artistic value are a person's emotional and intellectual responses. A horse carriage will never get you to a destination as quickly as a car all things being equal, therefore the horse carriage is obviously "antiquated" as a mode of transport, but a 1920s Blues song can produce the same level of emotional and intellectual engagement as anything modern. On a related note, this is why calling a piece of art "dated" or "aged" is also nonsensical.

Someone might try to describe innovation in art as a change to a preceding artistic trend (i.e. the Rockabilly of Elvis, Buddy Holly to the British Invasion to Psychedelic), but the ensuing development doesn't make the preceding trend "obsolete" in the technological sense. Buddy Holly is Buddy Holly, and his music produces a different experience than the music of the Velvet Underground. The two artists don't "compete with each other" for technological viability. Change doesn't equate to superiority in this case. It's just that. Change.

Saying "everything's been done in a genre" falls into the trap of, again, placing art within that obsolescence/innovative technological paradigm. "Well, we've exhausted all the possibilities of the internal combustion engine. Nowhere to go." Art is first and foremost a "formalized expression of experience." As long as there exists people with "something to say," art can't be exhausted of its possibilities (Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen sound superficially alike, but are actually nothing alike). This is even true mathematically, as there are a limitless number of ways to construct a melody. Then add on top of that the limitless amount of tonal, rhythmic, and temporal variations.

[midnightpulp]

Also, a form of music doesn't "die" just because it's no longer relevant in the popular culture, nor does it "die" because it has run its course creatively (which is impossible). If you want to evaluate music on purely objective terms (a tough task), modern Jazz, a genre that has been totally irrelevant for 40 years, is musically more interesting than anything coming from popular music culture. Now, I just got done writing about music being subjective and how it's wrong to attempt to evaluate it on objective terms, so I don't think modern Jazz is subjectively superior to popular music, since they have different aims, but people have the misbelief that music popular with youth culture is what is currently "musically cutting edge."

[FrostKing]

In rock or jazz, no one cares what you look like, where your from, what you did or whom you sleep with

In Hip Hop these are critical factors to gain "street cred". That is why the genre is heavily image based and thus processed.

[MultiTroll]

In rock or jazz, no one cares what you look like, where your from, what you did or whom you sleep with

In Hip Hop these are critical factors to gain "street cred". That is why the genre is heavily image based and thus processed.
"Young Dolph"
Retard shows up at a Club with all kinds of puffed out chest *posse*. Just itching to get into an altercation, real or staged. (See Sopranos episode :lmao )

Sure enough there was some beef earlier at a Club he started the night *performing* at. The beef seems to have made it's way up to this club he transferred to. Now bear in mind, one of Young Dolphs songs he brags about how "Dere bee a shootins at 1z o my showz." -paraphrase.

Bravo. So next (real or staged) the beef spills out into the street and shots are fired. The shots are wayyy off the mark (thankfully) so I think this was a Sopranos type episode to build up Young Dipsticks street kred.

FFS :rolleyes

[spurraider21]

I always dislike when the "innovation" buzzword is applied to any form of art and/or is somehow used as a value descriptor of art. How can art "innovate" anything, really? Applying the innovative tag to art attempts to define it in terms of technological progress where innovation means something that does the job of the thing it replaced cheaper and more efficiently (i.e. horse carriages to cars). Artistic value is obviously subjective, and the primary elements of artistic value are a person's emotional and intellectual responses. A horse carriage will never get you to a destination as quickly as a car all things being equal, therefore the horse carriage is obviously "antiquated" as a mode of transport, but a 1920s Blues song can produce the same level of emotional and intellectual engagement as anything modern. On a related note, this is why calling a piece of art "dated" or "aged" is also nonsensical.

Someone might try to describe innovation in art as a change to a preceding artistic trend (i.e. the Rockabilly of Elvis, Buddy Holly to the British Invasion to Psychedelic), but the ensuing development doesn't make the preceding trend "obsolete" in the technological sense. Buddy Holly is Buddy Holly, and his music produces a different experience than the music of the Velvet Underground. The two artists don't "compete with each other" for technological viability. Change doesn't equate to superiority in this case. It's just that. Change.

Saying "everything's been done in a genre" falls into the trap of, again, placing art within that obsolescence/innovative technological paradigm. "Well, we've exhausted all the possibilities of the internal combustion engine. Nowhere to go." Art is first and foremost a "formalized expression of experience." As long as there exists people with "something to say," art can't be exhausted of its possibilities (Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen sound superficially alike, but are actually nothing alike). This is even true mathematically, as there are a limitless number of ways to construct a melody. Then add on top of that the limitless amount of tonal, rhythmic, and temporal variations.


Also, a form of music doesn't "die" just because it's no longer relevant in the popular culture, nor does it "die" because it has run its course creatively (which is impossible). If you want to evaluate music on purely objective terms (a tough task), modern Jazz, a genre that has been totally irrelevant for 40 years, is musically more interesting than anything coming from popular music culture. Now, I just got done writing about music being subjective and how it's wrong to attempt to evaluate it on objective terms, so I don't think modern Jazz is subjectively superior to popular music, since they have different aims, but people have the misbelief that music popular with youth culture is what is currently "musically cutting edge."
Mid I’m sure garage bands are still going to be around and engage in muh artistic expression. I think it’s pretty clear that in this context we are talking about commercial viability. The whole shtick about unlimited melodies is complete shit in practice. You can put a toddler in front of a piano and have them mash 1000’s or melodies and call all of them artistic expression. But this is what we see in the industry.


https://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I

[leemajors]

In rock or jazz, no one cares what you look like, where your from, what you did or whom you sleep with

In Hip Hop these are critical factors to gain "street cred". That is why the genre is heavily image based and thus processed.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

[midnightpulp]

Mid I’m sure garage bands are still going to be around and engage in muh artistic expression. I think it’s pretty clear that in this context we are talking about commercial viability. The whole shtick about unlimited melodies is complete shit in practice. You can put a toddler in front of a piano and have them mash 1000’s or melodies and call all of them artistic expression. But this is what we see in the industry.


Well, if you expect the rock genre to find a way to be as commercially viable as it was during its golden age, I don't think that's possible. Hip-Hop and Pop are much more compatible with the social media age than rock, since the two genres are naturally more extroverted and image-centric. Musically, the catchy, singles oriented nature of hip-hop and pop are also more compatible with how music is primarily listened to today, on the go or as background noise on headphones or small Bluetooth speakers. Both are relatively shitty reproduction methods (even the best "audiophile" headphones are fuckin' terrible at imaging, soundstage, and tonal accuracy). I believe we talked about that fact before in a hi-fi thread, and you made a good point that since no one listens to music on a proper stereo anymore, modern music production doesn't benefit from taking the time to create a layered, 3 dimensional soundstage.

Further complicating matters for rock is how easy it is for the industry to shit out new hip-hop and pop stars. Even an industry planted rock band have to be competent musicians, singers, and learn to play together. Something that takes a great deal more time and money than finding a tattooed face idiot on the streets and hiring a nerd with a DAW to make his beats. It's why soundcloud is an avalanche of bedroom produced mediocrity.

My gripe is when people claim that the rock (or any) genre has nowhere else to go "creatively" since it's been around for so long and "everything's been done." Agreed about your point how musical construction has become more homogenous over the years (see here: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/). That doesn't disprove that there are limitless number of ways you can build a song, though. The Axis of Awesome vid actually proves my point. With or Without You and Forever Young might have the same four chord foundation, but sound nothing alike (aside from some similar vocal phrasing) since the tempos, timbre, pitch, and rhythms are different. Axis of Awesome cheats by playing all the songs in the same key, with the same instruments and with similar tempo. They also completely eliminate the rhythm section (no drums, bass guitar, etc).