Offseason Themes

[Marcus Bryant]

There are two ways to look at this offseason. The first is what is flowing through the media right now. That is, the Spurs are "old". Their run is over. The NBA has passed them by. They won't be able to replenish their supporting cast anytime soon. Without some kind of miraculous moves this summer they won't be making it back to the WCF anytime soon.

The other view, of course, is that the Spurs were hamstrung by one really bad ankle and Joey Crawford. The Spurs will need to make some minor tweaks here and there. Perhaps they will find a potential role player at #26 (Chalmers or Douglas-Roberts). Maybe they'll pull someone who can help out of free agency (Smith, Pietrus, Barnes, Najera, etc). Mahinmi will have a prime opportunity to break into the rotation next season. Re-up Thomas too.

An observation is that if the Spurs believed in the first scenario, they probably wouldn't be discussing a potential extension with Ginobili. A panic move would be to do something foolish like deal Ginobili for a Michael Redd, for example. The Spurs generally do not do such things.

I know the recently completed playoffs had a disappointing finish, but I don't see the reason for the pessimism that pervades this forum. I've seen the Spurs come back to win titles when their options to rebuild the supporting cast were much more limited.

[Marcus Bryant]

This could be another classic BAMA v HOYA offseason.

[Blackjack]

:tu

This roster needs tweaks, not an overhaul. A couple smart moves, a little good fortune in the draft, and the Spurs will have as good a shot as anyone next year.

[Brutalis]

Pessimism is permitted and well deserved.

Duncan looked old this season. Looked like the age is catching up to him in his footwork, jumping ability and overall shooting percentage. However he did have a typical Duncan playoffs even being doubled most of the way through. However his decline is now unquestionable. It may not be a drastic one, but it has started. Only a homer would deny this. And that will be everyone replying pretty much.

San Antonio has every right to be in question. As age and just being flat tired has a perfectly good debate behind it. No matter the fact of how we went through the playoffs, yes it was a mess, and hard, and somewhat unfair in the scheduling but excuses are for Bush, not the Spurs.

Manu was hurt yes, but if it was so bad why did he play? No excuse. He played, we lost, I'm tired of hearing his ankle is why we lost, and only why. That's just more of the homerism creeping through. If it was so bad, then he helped tank us. I don't understand why he was throwing up ugly shots and turning the ball over like its the new cool thing to do. Get over that subject and yourself people.

SA has a lot to prove, and a lot of work to do. The pressure is on and it's time you people stopped avoiding it. I'm sure we'll get 47+ wins next year regardless.

[Marcus Bryant]

Manu was hurt yes, but if it was so bad why did he play? No excuse. He played, we lost, I'm tired of hearing his ankle is why we lost, and only why. That's just more of the homerism creeping through. If it was so bad, then he helped tank us. I don't understand why he was throwing up ugly shots and turning the ball over like its the new cool thing to do. Get over that subject and yourself people.

So Ginobili went from looking like one of the best players in the league to a chucking player on the decline overnight on no other account than 'age'? That age is a bitch. Obviously his ankle was a factor. Not acknowledging it was is a bit misguided.

As for homerism, that's cool. We are fans, not scientists, after all.

[Brutalis]

So Ginobili went from looking like one of the best players in the league to a chucking player on the decline overnight on no other account than 'age'? That age is a bitch. Obviously his ankle was a factor. Not acknowledging it was is a bit misguided.

As for homerism, that's cool. We are fans, not scientists, after all.

Where in that paragraph did I say anything about Manu's age feller? Right, I didn't.

So whatever point I am supposed to reply to is lost friend. I said if he was so hurt and injured, then he helped us lose. Smart thing would have been to sit on the damn bench and let someone not turning the ball over and throwing up wild shots in there. And before you say who? Try anyone. They had a better chance than he did given his numbers.

[SPURSGOAT]

Yeesh! So much pessimism on this board.. I am pretty optomistic about the draft, FA, Ian, and how we will do next season. There is no reason to push the PANIC button...I have confidence that we will get some pretty decent draft picks and will be happy getting Pietrus and I am sure they will bring in another FA with the other half of the MLE. I am looking forward to the draft and who they pick up in the off-season... I think the Spurs will be looking for players to not only contribute now, but also for the future. So they might go for the guys in the draft they can stick in the D-league for a season or two. Pop did as much as he could with what he had to work with... the Spurs just were out of gas and Manu was hurt... he could really do not much else in the WCF but chuck up shots due to the injury. I am not for trading Ian or any of the big 3. Looking forward to next season.

[Tully365]

The Spurs were one win away from having the best record in the western conference. They beat a very good New Orleans team, & a very good though old Phoenix team. I really think stories of their demise are silly. The combined age of their big 3 is still younger than the big 3 of Boston, Dallas, or Phoenix.
I think it is essential that they sign guys to MLE and LLE contracts this summer-- one reason is to add talent and depth to the team, and another is to give them potential trading assets, which is one category where they are sadly lacking. Combine this with any reasonably good draft pick-- Courtney Lee, CDR, Chalmers-- and I think the Spurs are right in the thick of things.

[Marcus Bryant]

Where in that paragraph did I say anything about Manu's age feller? Right, I didn't.

"feller"? I guess that's an Arky thing. If age was not the issue, then what was? That he suddenly forgot how to play in the postseason?



So whatever point I am supposed to reply to is lost friend. I said if he was so hurt and injured, then he helped us lose. Smart thing would have been to sit on the damn bench and let someone not turning the ball over and throwing up wild shots in there. And before you say who? Try anyone. They had a better chance than he did given his numbers.

So he was injured and was unable to perform at his usual level, but we shouldn't consider that when looking forward, but rather assume that he will always play shitty in future postseasons due to an injury for which we will not consider because that makes us "homers"?

[Blackjack]

Pessimism is permitted and well deserved.

Duncan looked old this season. Looked like the age is catching up to him in his footwork, jumping ability and overall shooting percentage. However he did have a typical Duncan playoffs even being doubled most of the way through. However his decline is now unquestionable. It may not be a drastic one, but it has started. Only a homer would deny this. And that will be everyone replying pretty much.

San Antonio has every right to be in question. As age and just being flat tired has a perfectly good debate behind it. No matter the fact of how we went through the playoffs, yes it was a mess, and hard, and somewhat unfair in the scheduling but excuses are for Bush, not the Spurs.

Manu was hurt yes, but if it was so bad why did he play? No excuse. He played, we lost, I'm tired of hearing his ankle is why we lost, and only why. That's just more of the homerism creeping through. If it was so bad, then he helped tank us. I don't understand why he was throwing up ugly shots and turning the ball over like its the new cool thing to do. Get over that subject and yourself people.

SA has a lot to prove, and a lot of work to do. The pressure is on and it's time you people stopped avoiding it. I'm sure we'll get 47+ wins next year regardless.

The facts are... Tim and Manu have at least 2-3 years of championship ball in them, and Tony is in the prime of his career. To have everything that went against them(i.e. health, scheduling) and still have a chance at a title, suggests they're not that far off.

The Spurs need to improve their roster, but with role-players. They've got a championship-caliber core, it's not like they're looking for the next big thing to carry them to the title. Shit, there's about 28 teams that would love to have our "problems" over the next 2 years.

Every championship team needs alot of things to fall their way, one of the major things being health. The Spurs simply weren't that fortunate this year, thus the result.

If we're able to end up with Chalmers, White/Hendrix(in the draft), McGuire(trade), use the MLE on a vet. scorer, and add Mahinmi to the mix??? I'd feel more then comfortable with our chances.

Maybe all of that happening isn't all that likely, but they're all moves that are feasible. The upgrades this team needs aren't all that unrealistic if the F.O. does their job.

But, then again..... I'm probably just a homer. :lmao

[T Park]

Pessimism is permitted and well deserved.

Duncan looked old this season. Looked like the age is catching up to him in his footwork, jumping ability and overall shooting percentage. However he did have a typical Duncan playoffs even being doubled most of the way through. However his decline is now unquestionable. It may not be a drastic one, but it has started. Only a homer would deny this. And that will be everyone replying pretty much.

San Antonio has every right to be in question. As age and just being flat tired has a perfectly good debate behind it. No matter the fact of how we went through the playoffs, yes it was a mess, and hard, and somewhat unfair in the scheduling but excuses are for Bush, not the Spurs.

Manu was hurt yes, but if it was so bad why did he play? No excuse. He played, we lost, I'm tired of hearing his ankle is why we lost, and only why. That's just more of the homerism creeping through. If it was so bad, then he helped tank us. I don't understand why he was throwing up ugly shots and turning the ball over like its the new cool thing to do. Get over that subject and yourself people.

SA has a lot to prove, and a lot of work to do. The pressure is on and it's time you people stopped avoiding it. I'm sure we'll get 47+ wins next year regardless.

When did Duncan ever have "jumping ability"?

His jumping ability went away after the knee surgery.

[kobyz]

i'm just worried about injuries for next year, if we won't suffer from injuries like this year we will be in good shape

[wildbill2u]

We did get to the WCF and that is no small accomplishment in the West. But were some players pushing against their current ceiling in player skills, giving us all they had left, but not quite enough?

I see that in Horry, Finley, Stoudamire and Thomas. I'd keep Finley and Thomas for bench duties and open up two spots.

Age = more injuries. Unfortunately it's as true of these highly tuned athletes as us sofa denizens that with age you are more susceptible to get more injuries and they take longer to recover from.

Age is in itself a limiting factor. We've all watched players whose skills have diminished with age and I don't see how anyone can argue about that. In a game that moves like lightning being a half-step slower than the year before can take some players from having game to having the best seat in the house to watch games.

So a couple of fresh legs in role players on the bench are needed for the futute competitiveness of the team.

However, we will be extremely lucky if we pick up anything in the draft that really helps us. Somebody posted a great historical analysis on draft picks the other day that showed anything from about 15th pick down was simply a crapshoot.

We really need to get a very good swingman and Artest would be the best alternative available if we could get him.

[Brutalis]

"feller"? I guess that's an Arky thing. If age was not the issue, then what was? That he suddenly forgot how to play in the postseason?

It's just harmless sarcasm. And no, he was hurt. Obviously. That was my point, why play in the WCF's when it was obviously hurting him a hell of a lot more than the prior series.




So he was injured and was unable to perform at his usual level, but we shouldn't consider that when looking forward, but rather assume that he will always play shitty in future postseasons due to an injury for which we will not consider because that makes us "homers"?

Why do you keep slurring my words? You are saying this not me. All my point was he shouldn't play if he was that hurt. Has nothing to do with the future? Unless he's hurt again in future playoffs..??.. then he shouldn't play..???..

[Brutalis]

When did Duncan ever have "jumping ability"?

His jumping ability went away after the knee surgery.

You should know what I mean. Duncan used to get up there hella better than he does now. And yeah the knee thing ruined that. But you couldn't tell his lift was a lot worse this year? I thought that was sorta obvious.

Timmy was never a leaper, just always long. But still his lift is going worse each year me thinks.

[Brutalis]

The facts are... Tim and Manu have at least 2-3 years of championship ball in them, and Tony is in the prime of his career. To have everything that went against them(i.e. health, scheduling) and still have a chance at a title, suggests they're not that far off.

The Spurs need to improve their roster, but with role-players. They've got a championship-caliber core, it's not like they're looking for the next big thing to carry them to the title. Shit, there's about 28 teams that would love to have our "problems" over the next 2 years.

Every championship team needs alot of things to fall their way, one of the major things being health. The Spurs simply weren't that fortunate this year, thus the result.

If we're able to end up with Chalmers, White/Hendrix(in the draft), McGuire(trade), use the MLE on a vet. scorer, and add Mahinmi to the mix??? I'd feel more then comfortable with our chances.

Maybe all of that happening isn't all that likely, but they're all moves that are feasible. The upgrades this team needs aren't all that unrealistic if the F.O. does their job.

But, then again..... I'm probably just a homer. :lmao

I pretty much agree with everything you said. However it had nothing to do with the point of the thread and my own points.

Which were why is doubt in our minds, and all that.

I know we're fine overall. If we get a big man and no swingman, we'll make it. Vice versa, we'll still make it alright.

It's just being a Spurs fan brings a higher level of pressure and expectations. And the doubt that the Spurs can get enough of a supporting cast to make a run is totally legit seeing how we have has issues in the past doing that, but even winning the title regardless.

The people I am calling homer are the ones who think Duncan isn't on the down slope, or that the Spurs don't deserve some pessimism. They do.

I think you might have assume I think they deserve a bitching out or something. They don't. But being a critic is fine and well deserved as for the reasons they lost to the Lakers will do that to you.

[Biggems]

This roster needs 5 new players with young, athletic, fresh legs....who can get some nice regular season playing time in November - January......then when it is time to make the mad dash for the playoffs, our 10 core players can increase their minutes up until the start of the playoffs...

[SenorSpur]

As long as the Big Three are healthy and in their prime, the Spurs title chances are always favorable and strong. It's the supporting cast around this core that needs upgrading or tweaking, if you will.

No less than 4 spots should be changed out for the upcoming season. Since it takes young players anywhere from 1-3 years to integrate, it's important to get at least 1 or 2 of these new rooks (potential 1st and 2nd round choices) into the pipeline now. Now, if one of these rooks proves worthy and can contribute sooner that would be gravy.

The productivity "bang" for next season is more likely to come by way of the free agent market. To maintain their championship-level production, the Spurs wil need to "cut bait" with several vets (Horry, Finley, Stoudamire) and infuse the roster with younger, fresher, more productive bench players that can come in and contriubute now (i.e. Pietrus, Smith, Najera, Barnes, Turiaf, etc.).

Conserving miniutes of the "Big Three" is paramount for this season and in future years, as they get older. This underscores the importance of having a strong, productive bench. If the Spurs can solve these issues, they can expect to be in the thick of things for the next couple of years.

[mrspurs]

i still havnt seen a doctors exam on manu's ankle so i wont be convinced 100 percent that his ankle WAS the reason we lost in the WCF......nowhere did this thread starter point out the real facts on why our boys were tired at the end of it all...boston has one of the other older teams and anyone who knows the nba knows....boston made their chances of winning it all by getting HCA....someone said it we were a game away from having the best record in the WC....no doubt in my mind if we had HCA we would have repeated....there is a 3rd scenario on the spurs future and it basically has nothing todo with our players or their age....noone has said the reason we won so many games (yet a couple to short) was because manu played to much backup point...the FO decided beno just wasnt gonna helping, so they let him go...and then when tony got hurt, the FO went out and brought in pops savior mighty mouse...since damon sucked so bad and jacque was another bonehead move the FO decided to keep (dont ask me why) couldnt play a decent backup to even manu running the show....it was manu who we had no choice but to stick with.....let alone waiting to trade for kurt towards the end of the season,(and basically cheating by always knowing we would get barry back) was that ever mentioned in any of this threads scenarios....look back and see who really lost this seasons chances and it all leads the the bonehead moves the FO made....they lost it, not our players....our players play with fire and heart at all costs, they always have...but when your FO makes stupid moves, the players get the blame...wake up there more options and scenarios as to why the spurs failed this season...tell the the FO, whom im sure already knows to stop making stupid moves, during stupid times...and noone is gonna tell me mighty mouse was or is better then beno...beno got cut cos he and pop couldnt get along....and everyone knows no matter the talent if you get in pops doghouse thats where you stay....a few tweaks and we are right back in the show...those tweaks depend on not the players....go spurs go

[WildcardManu]

Bring in agent zero.

just a pipe dream

[my2sons]

This roster needs 5 new players with young, athletic, fresh legs....who can get some nice regular season playing time in November - January......then when it is time to make the mad dash for the playoffs, our 10 core players can increase their minutes up until the start of the playoffs...

in your scenario:
who is our 10 core players
what five players are out
and what 5 young players are you looing at

[Joe Schmoogins]

Duncan isn't on the down slope, and the Spurs don't deserve any pessimism.

[SenorSpur]

This roster needs 5 new players with young, athletic, fresh legs....who can get some nice regular season playing time in November - January......then when it is time to make the mad dash for the playoffs, our 10 core players can increase their minutes up until the start of the playoffs...

3 out of the 4 final four teams in the playoffs had 1, 2 or sometimes even 3 players with 4 years or less experience as part of their rotation.

As far as the Faker/Spurs series, yes Manu was injured. However, the Fakers outhustled and outquicked. At times, age and experience can be overrated when old legs become tired legs and thereby succumbing to fresh legs.

[1Parker1]

So Ginobili went from looking like one of the best players in the league to a chucking player on the decline overnight on no other account than 'age'? That age is a bitch. Obviously his ankle was a factor. Not acknowledging it was is a bit misguided.

As for homerism, that's cool. We are fans, not scientists, after all.

Of course you have to look at age as a factor. For one thing, the West is going to be even tougher next season with teams like the Blazers becoming a possible playoff contender. You could even argue that the Spurs normal routine of "coasting" through the regular season to prepare for the postseason ended up coming back and biting them in the ass. If they hadn't lost to the likes of Memphis or Milwakee in the regular season, they could have arguabled ended up in the top 2 seeds in the West, and a MUCH easier road to the Finals.

That being said, you have to wonder how much longer Bruce Bowen can continue to play the kind of defense night in and night out that he's been playing. And Ginobili is the type of player who always seems to be injured so the Spurs need quality backup players who can take the load off the stars in the regular season, but at the same time still help them win games.

Spurs essentially got NOTHING out of Oberto, Horry, Udoka (except for the Hornets series), Bonner, Jacque Vaughn, and Damon Stoudamire. That's basically the Spurs ENTIRE bench!

As long as the Spurs have the Big 3 and Bowen and Pop coaching them, they'll always be in contention. But unlike in years past, where they were able to win with a LOT less talent, I think the talent in the West has gotten better and better. And that's going to be a factor not just in the postseason, but also the regular season.

[angelbelow]

if we have some sort of certainty that we are going to sign a swing player, we should definitely take chalmers.

[intlspurshk]

Barry's health and consistency is a big if. Finley better not come back. Who will provide the consistent 3pt threat? Bowen? Udoka?

Manu's health is a concern. He also seems to do a lot of things by himself nowadays and commits some big mistakes occasionally.

Resigning KT and udoka are not guaranteed. Don't expect Udoka to play for peanuts

The stupid Bonner signning is still wasting 3m per year unless he get traded. (pls don't use any future pick as sweatener). This $ should go to udoka.

Whether Pop will play Ian consistently is still a big if

Horry comeback at min would be welcome for dirty work but is he willing to do so?

If SPURS sign Kelena or Matt Barnes or Pietrus would be ok but they only provide MARGINAL improvements. It wouldn't be enough to combat w/Lakers when AB is back.

I don't expect any major contributions from the draft too.

Sorry, but I don't see any positive improvment from this off season and I hope I am wrong. I am afraid the SPURS will be declining until 2010.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Resigning KT and udoka are not guaranteed. Don't expect Udoka to play for peanuts.


Are you referring to next season, because Udoka is under contract for this coming year?