Buck Harvey: J.R. gamble would be up to Popovich

[Tiro]

Buck Harvey: J.R. gamble would be up to Popovich

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA062208.buckjrsmith.en.3ac3698.html

Web Posted: 06/21/2008 09:15 PM CDT
Buck Harvey
[email protected]

The one who makes the most sense for the Spurs is the one with the least sense.

That would be J.R. Smith, the flawed diamond of this summer's free-agent class. He has been everything the Spurs are not, and he also has everything the Spurs need.

For one, he can dunk.

So he's worth a look. And if the Spurs go in that direction on July 1, and if they interview Smith, then what follows will hinge on this:

Can Gregg Popovich see something he likes in someone he shouldn't?

Next season might hinge on it, too. The Spurs likely won't get enough from the draft to help them immediately, even if they find a way to move up.

The other free agents are equally uninspiring. Role players are available, not much more.

But then there is Smith, a remarkable athlete who the Spurs previously tried to acquire in a trade. Then, just before the 2006 trade deadline, a deal fell through that would have sent Brent Barry to New Orleans in exchange for Smith.

Byron Scott had given up on the kid, but the Spurs thought they had missed out. Given their locker room, couldn't they have reached Smith as they once did Stephen Jackson?

Smith eventually went to Denver instead. In 2007, against the Spurs in the playoffs, Smith gave the Spurs little reason to regret anything.

Smith committed such a sequence of selfish, foolish plays in one game that George Karl benched Smith for the finale. “I just love the dignity of the game,” Karl said of Smith's play, “being insulted right in front of me.”

A headline from the Denver Post then summed up Smith's standing: “Who shot the Nuggets? J.R.”

The absence of gunfire is one of Smith's few selling points. He is a middle-class, gangsta wannabe. He's been suspended a couple of times, brawling both on the court and off, and all he's ever led the league in is apologies.

Jackson once proudly called himself the anti-Spur. Smith comes closer to being the anti-human.

His life has included tragedy. He once ran a stop sign, which ultimately resulted in the death of one of his passengers, a childhood friend.

And his life has included comedy. He yapped at Kobe Bryant in a playoff game this spring — while Bryant was going for 49 points.

Then there's the defect that would never work on a Popovich team: Scouts say he is “an unwilling defender.”

Given that, maybe the Spurs decide they would be crazier than Smith to consider him. Unlike Jackson, after all, this risk would require a financial investment.

Still, there's no one out there like Smith. He's 6-foot-6 with 30-foot range, and he's only 22. He averaged more than a dozen points for the Nuggets last year despite averaging less than 20 minutes. That's also why the Nuggets want him back.

But the Nuggets are being squeezed. After Allen Iverson chose not to opt out of his contract last week, Denver has eight players with guaranteed contracts totaling more than $78 million. If the Spurs dangle, say, $4 million a year, would the Nuggets want to match the offer and pay even more luxury tax?

Smith may get a better offer elsewhere. Smith also may not want to play in a regimented system.

But if he's open to the Spurs, and Popovich is open to sitting down with him, a franchise-changing decision would come down to one thing. Popovich's gut.

Popovich hasn't had to do this lately. Mostly he's been talking someone such as Michael Finley into signing. This time Popovich would be listening.

Statistics wouldn't matter, nor would stories from the past. It would be about Popovich getting a sense of Smith; knowing Popovich, he might challenge Smith, as he once did Dennis Rodman, just to see the reaction.

If Smith walked away with an attitude, then Popovich would save money and time. But maybe something else happens, and maybe Popovich thinks a follower such as Smith might prosper following Tim Duncan.

This is all the Spurs can go on, and this is how they would make such a gamble. Good sense has little to do with any of it.

[Mr. Body]

There are so few good options and so many holes to fill the Spurs just might go for this bozo.

But I doubt it.

Meanwhile Harvey is getting paid for essentially a 'Post Reply' to one of this forum's threads.

[timvp]

Good article by Buck. It's another SpursTalk remix but at least someone in the media is willing to write about how JR Smith might be worth the drama (and money).

It will be really interesting to see if the Spurs even pursue JR. If JR has any hope of becoming a winner and getting his life on track, he'd be smart to jump all over a Spurs offer. If he wants to continue his Thug Life or whatever, it'd be best to avoid SA.

[jag]

Then, just before the 2006 trade deadline, a deal fell through that would have sent Brent Barry to New Orleans in exchange for Smith.



Barry for Smith...it was all too simple to ever work out.

Oh, what could have been...

[Manu-of-steel]

if smith has gotten tired of his old ways, then maybe he could be a better player, especially in the spurs system. with tim, manu, and the rest of team as his mentors, he's got the best team players. plus, he's in a team with a better chance of getting that ring.

[wildbill2u]

I'm thinking you can't reform a player whose had problems at two previous stops.

I've never believed in the theory that classy veterans can influence gangsta wannabes.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hi Buck.

[duncan228]

Meanwhile Harvey is getting paid for essentially a 'Post Reply' to one of this forum's threads.


It's another SpursTalk remix...

SpursTalk has better, more articulate arguments than most anything I find nationally or from the local SA sites. It wouldn't surprise me at all if any writer covering the Spurs hangs out here to see what's being tossed around.

[Buck Harvey]

Hi Buck.

Hi yourself.

[Russ]

Historically, the Spurs don't give guys like JR long-term deals (see Stephen Jackson and Derek Anderson). They especially don't offer long term deals to that ilk if they haven't even been on the team yet.

So unless JR will take a short "make-good" deal (with an completely unforceable promise for a longer deal if things go well) no way JR and the Spurs reach a meeting of the minds. No way.

In short, too many obstacles for both sides to overcome.

[SenorSpur]

Only 22 years old? Wow!




Then there's the defect that would never work on a Popovich team: Scouts say he is “an unwilling defender.”


Believe it or not, this is the element of his game that worries me most.

I could see him giving us that instant offense that we so desparately need. I just wonder if he he's ready to grow up, become disciplined and actually become part of a winning culture. It'll be interesting to see how or if this goes down.

[Mr. Body]

Russ nails it.

[ducks]

he refuses to work on d because melo does

[SenorSpur]

I didn't even bother reading the article. Of course the gamble is up to Pop. Everyone should know that Pop is the head of the Spurs. No major dession such as the starting shooting guard position would just slide by him without his okay. He is the GM, RC is really just an assistant who does a lot of the talking for Pop, but he doesn't do anything without Pop's okay.

I am not taking anything away from RC, he is pretty smart if you ask me, but he has to run everything through Pop, who is the man who brought him in with the Spurs to begin with.

You guys know my opinion on JR. I believe he is what the Spurs need. New blood, fresh legs, a very good borderline great athlete, and a lights out scorer.


I don't disagree at all. I'm curious if anyone else is concerned about his utter carelessness on the defensive end? I could see that element driving Pop absolutely mad. Smith would spend as much time in Pop's doghouse as any rookie.

[Mr. Body]

I don't disagree at all. I'm curious if anyone else is concerned about his utter carelessness on the defensive end? I could see that element driving Pop absolutely mad. Smith would spend as much time in Pop's doghouse as any rookie.

Of course people are concerned about his no-defense rule, as well as his habitual flakiness. I doubt his scoring can be proven to win many games, as he gives up plenty on the other end both individually and in team defense. The MLE is a lot of jack for a 'guess he'll shape up' personnel move.

He won't be a Spur. He's a unicorn fart.

[InRareForm]

Buck roasting JR a bit too much in this article, take it easy pal "anti-human".....

[oligarchy]

I don't disagree at all. I'm curious if anyone else is concerned about his utter carelessness on the defensive end? I could see that element driving Pop absolutely mad. Smith would spend as much time in Pop's doghouse as any rookie.

Was Finley any better on defense?

[exstatic]

Was Finley any better on defense?

+1

[SenorSpur]

Was Finley any better on defense?

Touche'

Defense or offense for that matter.

[rj215]

Was Finley any better on defense?

Thank God someone else was thinking this. Halfway thru every Spurs 1st quarter Pop would pull Finley, not just because he wanted Manu in the game but because by then Old Mike would've let his guy score about 8 points.

I'm not saying JR would be ideal for us but at this point haven't the Lakers and the Celts show us that a solid starting wing man is needed to compete? I really don't think Finley that guy and Manu helps us more when he comes off the bench. JR might just be semi-solid but I'll take him over cornball Finley any day.

[SenorSpur]

Of course people are concerned about his no-defense rule, as well as his habitual flakiness. I doubt his scoring can be proven to win many games, as he gives up plenty on the other end both individually and in team defense. The MLE is a lot of jack for a 'guess he'll shape up' personnel move.
He won't be a Spur. He's a unicorn fart.

No way I'd give this kid the MLE. Perhaps some team will, but the Spurs will not. For that amount of money, I'd rather invest in Pietrus.

[Tully365]

I have to vote no. The unwillingness to play defense is usually a pretty good indication of attitude. I just think it's rare for a guy who has been playing hoops his entire life and isn't interested in D to suddenly turn it around. Look at Amare-- he obviously has the strength and athleticism to be a defender, but even after years of being told that his D needs to improve, he still just doesn't seem interested. In theory, a super young athlete like JR playing alongside Melo, AI, Camby, Kleiza, Martin & Najera should result in one of the best teams in the NBA, but it just doesn't. And if he drives Karl crazy, he'd probably put Pop in the emergency room...

[Marcus Bryant]

So either the Spurs make a gamble or else morons will scold the front office from here on.

[Tully365]

No way I'd give this kid the MLE. Perhaps some team will, but the Spurs will not. For that amount of money, I'd rather invest in Pietrus.

I agree. Pietrus or Azubuike.

[Marcus Bryant]

Pietrud? Ugh...

[angelbelow]

if we cant get artest, i say go for it. at the very least hes instant offense.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I'm thinking you can't reform a player whose had problems at two previous stops.

I've never believed in the theory that classy veterans can influence gangsta wannabes.


Keep in mind that the kid is only 22 years old. He is still very impressionable and he hasn't really had the type of team mates or coaches to help in sink in. I said in a different thread that JR is just what the doctor ordered - but perhaps looking at it from his perspective, the Spurs are just what the doctor ordered.:flag:

[spursparker9]

get him

[1Parker1]

With the options the Spurs have available this offseason, I'd say JR Smith may just be worth the risk. He can't be any crazier than Stephen Jackson and he can't be any worse on defense than Michael Finley.

As for people claiming he'd be in Pop's doghouse too often, I disagree. Pop won't have that many options, especially if he wants to rest Ginobili more during the regular season.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

JR was in GK's doghouse for a good part of last season, as soon as he got out he fast became probably the best player on the Nuggets. He put in effort on both ends of the floor and even played some good D when he tried. He stopped jacking as many 3's and started realising noone can stop his attacks to the rim, which in turn created easier 3pt looks coz the D had to sag off him incase he attacked.

JR is a flatout baller who has made some mistakes but has as much talent as anyone in the league. He just needs the work ethic and discipline, and he started getting that late last season.

Best part of the season is when he went head to head with Kobe in one of the playoff games, they kept hitting big shots and of course Kobe won in the end but it was fun seeing JR showing he isn't afraid of anyone. I also can never 4get when he has those games where he hits about 7 3's in a half..........fun to watch


I hope the Nuggets match whatever offer he gets coz it will be alot this season but with AI's 20mil expiring next year it means it will be worth the long term investment.

Chalmers (hopefully)/JR/Melo/?/Nene - thats a good and still relatively young core........

[Kindergarten Cop]

JR was in GK's doghouse for a good part of last season, as soon as he got out he fast became probably the best player on the Nuggets. He put in effort on both ends of the floor and even played some good D when he tried. He stopped jacking 3's and started realising noone can stop his attacks to the rim.

I hope the Nuggets match whatever offer he gets coz it will be alot this season but with AI's 20mil expiring next year it means it will be worth the long term investment.

Chalmers (hopefully)/JR/Melo/?/Nene - thats a good young core........


Thanks for the input. It is greatly apprecited.:toast

[ducks]

I try to do a sign and trade
I would throw draft picks to denver for so they would not match offers

[ducks]

humm spurs take a gamble on a proven scorer
or a unproven euro

spurs fans will bitch whatever they choose

[Guajalote]

Not arguing that Finley is better (even though Finley willingly gave up roles that were traditionally his for the sake of the team and winning), but what number of points that JR might score would be worth the number of points given up by poor defense (the opponent knowing full well to iso him every time down the court)?

And not to mention, how many points gained on offense offset the potential screwup of team chemistry, since character matters to the Spurs?

[Kindergarten Cop]

Not arguing that Finley is better (even though Finley willingly gave up roles that were traditionally his for the sake of the team and winning), but what number of points that JR might score would be worth the number of points given up by poor defense (the opponent knowing full well to iso him every time down the court)?

And not to mention, how many points gained on offense offset the potential screwup of team chemistry, since character matters to the Spurs?

Again, JR is a better defender than Finley (which admittedly isn't saying a lot) AND brings exactly what the Spurs need in a young slasher that can hit a shot from anywhere on the floor.

As for the chemistry of the Spurs, that is the last thing that I'm worried about. Any other team, I could see a point - but NOTHING is disrupting the chemistry of this team.

[T Park]

No way I'd give this kid the MLE. Perhaps some team will, but the Spurs will not. For that amount of money, I'd rather invest in Pietrus.


In what world, would Pietrus be better than JR SMith.

Are you people nuts?

Pietrus is TERRIBLE compared to Smith.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

:lol Pietrus? No comparison at all. JR is already much better than Pietrus and will only get better.

[oligarchy]

Not arguing that Finley is better (even though Finley willingly gave up roles that were traditionally his for the sake of the team and winning), but what number of points that JR might score would be worth the number of points given up by poor defense (the opponent knowing full well to iso him every time down the court)?

And not to mention, how many points gained on offense offset the potential screwup of team chemistry, since character matters to the Spurs?

What roles would that be that Finley gave up? I don't believe Finley was guaranteed anything when he came to the Spurs. Nor do I believe that he gave up anything willingly or sacrificially.

As far as JR goes, I don't think his defense is as poor as everyone believes. That's the point of this whole topic. Will he defend? I'm sure he is a capable defender, but is he willing? If Pop believes that he would be, then I'm sure he would pursue him. But to your question, does his scoring outweigh his lack of defense? Look at who he would be replacing then look at the numbers he put up versus the numbers put up by his assignee. That should give you your answer.

Chemistry issues are a complete aside. How many people want (and still want SJAX?) How real are chemistry issues?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

JR is a very capable defender, he just needs the right coach. People call me crazy but i truly believe he has as much talent as Kobe.......all he has to do is reach his potential. Im not saying he will ever be as good as Kobe but he could certainly have some great years if he works hard.

[Russ]

:lol Pietrus? No comparison at all. JR is already much better than Pietrus and will only get better.

On the other hand, JR is a restricted FA and Pietrus is unrestricted. That's another reason JR probably won't be a Spur -- restricted FAs suck up the Spurs' money until the original team decides to match.

Lost opportunities in the meantime . . . .

[Kindergarten Cop]

On the other hand, JR is a restricted FA and Pietrus is unrestricted. That's another reason JR probably won't be a Spur -- restricted FAs suck up the Spurs' money until the original team decides to match.

Lost opportunities in the meantime . . . .

Do you think Karl's relationship with Pop might aleviate some of the trouble with that though?

[Russ]

Do you think Karl's relationship with Pop might aleviate some of the trouble with that though?

I don't think they like each other. :)

[pawe]

The spurs were able to control buckets and me thinks he's more of a nutcase than smith. Just imagine if JR would totally commit to a system (hopefully the spurs'), defend and play..he's gonna be a Finley redux.

[Guajalote]

What roles would that be that Finley gave up? I don't believe Finley was guaranteed anything when he came to the Spurs. Nor do I believe that he gave up anything willingly or sacrificially.

When Finley came in, he was used to being one of the go to guys, not to mention a starter. I remember him mentioning in 2007 how he was willing to start or come off the bench, whatever it took.


But to your question, does his scoring outweigh his lack of defense? Look at who he would be replacing then look at the numbers he put up versus the numbers put up by his assignee. That should give you your answer.

I agree if we're talking about somebody like Kobe (who is going to get his no matter who guards him). But other than that, if JR comes in and can play defense, but chooses not to work hard at it for whatever reason, I just don't see him playing much.


Chemistry issues are a complete aside. How many people want (and still want SJAX?) How real are chemistry issues?

Not to go too far back to the dark ages on you :lol but Rodman served a pretty important role on the team allowing David to have his monster year and got traded away for being...well, Rodman. And Derrick (sp?) Anderson wasn't too shabby, and it's my understanding he had a similar problem as well.

All in all, I just love my Spurs and I am going to trust Pop's instincts to do what's best for the team. Besides, I'm paid just a few million dollars less than the FO for my judgement.

[T Park]

On the other hand, JR is a restricted FA and Pietrus is unrestricted. That's another reason JR probably won't be a Spur -- restricted FAs suck up the Spurs' money until the original team decides to match.

Lost opportunities in the meantime . . . .

You think Denver is wiling to pay him 11.6 million a year to JR Smith?

[E20]

For one, he can dunk.
That made me laugh. LOL

[Mark in Austin]

I could see the Spurs offer him the full MLE for 2 years to get to the 2010 season where cap room opens up. Maybe get creative and offer 4 years, with the third year a team option and fourth year a player option, so they can still have some flexibility in the 2010 summer.

George Karl isn't the most stable coach - I don't put much stock in issues with Karl - especially on a team as flawed as Denver.

[Blackjack]

JR is a very capable defender, he just needs the right coach. People call me crazy but i truly believe he has as much talent as Kobe.......all he has to do is reach his potential. Im not saying he will ever be as good as Kobe but he could certainly have some great years if he works hard.

I've been watching this kid since high-school and I've never seen a player with a better combination of marksmanship and athleticism. This kid can drop treys like Allen, and throw down like Carter. So I don't think your crazy for thinking his talent is on par with Kobe's.

Like Kobe though, he's never been humbled. There's a since of entitlement they share, to go along with an insecurity that makes them try to be someone/something they're not.

Unlike Kobe though (at least to this point), he lacks the drive, work-ethic, and willingness to pay the price mentally/physically to realize his potential. For all of Kobe's character-flaws... His dedication to the game and hunger to be the best, can't be questioned.

Maybe a change of scenery and a team like the Spurs is all he needs. He is only 22, and did come straight out of high-school. So Maybe Pop and the boys can help him with his attitude enough that he'll realize/fulfill his potential.

It's possible... Even if not probable.

[SenorSpur]

In what world, would Pietrus be better than JR SMith.

Are you people nuts?

Pietrus is TERRIBLE compared to Smith.

If you read the damn post, no one said anything about Pietrus being better than Smith!

The statement I responded to was about giving Smith the MLE I retorted Smith didn't deserve the MLE. Rather if the Spurs were going to spend that amount on a swingman, Pietrus would be the choice. Moreso, because he would be a better fit both on and off the court.

As for who is the better talent, of course that's Smith. He has a lot of baggage, but if they could get him for less than MLE, ok.

[timvp]

Turning down JR Smith because of his defense doesn't make much sense considering his age. What perimeter players were considered good defenders from ages 18 to 22 in the NBA? I can't even think of one off the top of my head. Almost every young swingman suffers on the defensive end at that age.

Hell, Ginobili was considered one of the worst defenders on the planet up until he was around 23. He didn't turn out bad.

Turning down Smith because he's a wannabe gangsta or because he doesn't do much other than score makes some sense. But expecting a young swingman to play any type of defense is asking too much.

[Spurtacus]

Artest or JR Smith. I hope we land one of those guys.

[The Truth #6]

We need someone young who can score so we can use them throughout the regular season to save energy for our big 3. His role in the regular season doesn't need to be the same as in the playoffs.

The issue isn't defense. As many have mentioned, Finley was horrible on defense, absolutely horrible. However, the issue is will JR rock the boat so much that he drags the team down? If he can score buckets and not disrupt the rest of the team, that's not perfect, but about as much as we should expect from any new player. If JR can deliver offense and not sabotage the team, I don't see how we can be upset.

We have to roll the dice in some way because we're vulnerable. Playing it safe with Pietrus means we don't win a title next year in my opinion.

However, knowing Pop we'll probably recruit a foreign born player - either Sasha, Pietrus or Azub. If that's the case hopefully it's Azub, though that still isn't going to get us over the top.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think the Spurs will offer JR Smith the whole MLE, but I think they'll go after him. I don't think they have many concerns about his lack of D - as many pointed out here, he's super young.

I think they'll offer him something like 3 years - $11M with an option on the third year. And that's not going to be good enough to get him, unfortunately.

[kobyz]

even if the spurs will offer him the whole MLE, the Nuggets will probably match it

[ChumpDumper]

even if the spurs will offer him the whole MLE, the Nuggets will probably match itI'm not too sure about that. Smith's salary would be doubled for the Nuggets next season, who will be over the tax threshold might already be looking to dump contracts.

I'm fine with taking a flyer on him -- I can't think of another free agent that has anything near his upside.

[m33p0]

for $4million? bait him.

[Bruno]

Smith is a damn talented player. I don't think his attitude is a big problem.

IMO, Smith won't look for a long term contract because he could be worth $10M per year soon.
Spurs should offer him a 2 or 3 years full MLE contract. 2 years or 3 years with a team option on the third year would ideal towards the 2010 plan.

[SenorSpur]

I don't think the Spurs will offer JR Smith the whole MLE, but I think they'll go after him. I don't think they have many concerns about his lack of D - as many pointed out here, he's super young.

I think they'll offer him something like 3 years - $11M with an option on the third year. And that's not going to be good enough to get him, unfortunately.

Salary wise, that's along the lines of what I'm thinking. Smith is super-talented, but not worth the entire MLE. My fear is that some team WILL ante up and overpay him in excess of that amount.

If I recall correctly, isn't that the same contract terms offered SJax before he turned it down and bolted for ATL?

Still, I'd love for them to acquire this guy. Hell, I wanted him 2 seasons ago when the Barry trade fell through. They need a player of his ilk more than ever now. He'd provide just the kind of socring and athleticism boost this team has lacked - but not for the full MLE though.

[mrspurs]

dont know bout anyone else....but pops last moves had completely disappointed me to the point.........i dont trust pops gut anymore.....and all buck can ever come up is with negative storys for the most part....how on earth would i know if jr smith is a thug...ive never seen his police record, to me its all hear say....now if i was jr. smith theres noway i would want to take a chance on pop....remember this is the the guy who yells at everyone from the top to the bottom....but he doesnt really yell at duncan, (he does, so the others dont feel out of place imo) thou jr. is a better then average player...he would be in pops doghouse real quick....and another thing....since when has karl ever been a good coach...he sucked as a spurs player, he sucks ever more as a coach...so anything karl says i throw out the window....would jr. smith fit here.....no, he doesnt defend and thats a must in our system first, but most of all, he is a choke artist under just a small amount of pressure....i think he would choke if he had to turn the water on in the showers......but ill say this about bucks article...it made a little sense. only thing jr. smith would do is help keep manu off the floor during the season, that is if they find another backup point for tony......go spurs go

[Buck Harvey]

Hmmmm. Nice.
[scribble scribble]

[ducks]

spurs should front load the deal as much as possible
denver would not match

[The Truth #6]

The Nuggets shouldn't match a full MLE unless they move AI or Melo, I would think. They should move AI and go with JR, but I don't see anyone who would want to take on AI's contract right now.

[exstatic]

For a player of his talent, I don't think the full MLE is overpaying. You limit your financial exposure by limiting the years. Offer two years, and either party can opt out of year 3. If he works out, great. If not, you're only on the hook for 2 years of MLE money, and you proceed with the 2010 plan. You can also put some nasty poison pills/bonuses in there. If the team doesn't make the second round of the playoffs, you can kick in a bonus. We always do and they never do, so it penalizes them if they match. A short contract would also ensure that IF they match, we can pursue him again in 2010. Every player and their mother will want to be a FA in 2010 to go after all that money that teams are ready to throw at 'Bron. There will be a lot of disappointed teams looking for fallback options.

Are they really going to tear down their team for money to retain a bench player that they'll realistically only be locking up for two years, only to see him unrestricted at that point? A short full MLE deal is expensive enough for them to have to do major roster surgery to match, but short enough to make it not worthwhile.

[clubalien]

our FA target should be ron artest
our long term free agent plan should be lebron james ie Kidd 2.0 but it works this time

I think this article just means pop wants JR and he is using the media to warm the fans to the idea

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Smith is a damn talented player. I don't think his attitude is a big problem.

IMO, Smith won't look for a long term contract because he could be worth $10M per year soon.
Spurs should offer him a 2 or 3 years full MLE contract. 2 years or 3 years with a team option on the third year would ideal towards the 2010 plan.

This is why he won't sign with us. He knows if he's on the Spurs he's going to to be a 4th option and not be able to showcase all of his talent so that teasm would be willing to pay him that 3 years down the road.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

oops.

[SenorSpur]

This is why he won't sign with us. He knows if he's on the Spurs he's going to to be a 4th option and not be able to showcase all of his talent so that teasm would be willing to pay him that 3 years down the road.


You'd have to wonder about his financial motives right now? Where is he at? Is he looking to parlay the next couple of seasons into a max deal? At age 22, he very well may be looking to go to the highest bidder. Any why wouldn't he. I'd love to have him aboard, but I just don't know how realistic a possibility he is for the Spurs.

[Marcus Bryant]

The problem for Smith is that if he isn't able to attract a deal from a team with more cap room than the MLE, then the max starting salary he will receive will be the MLE. The Nuggets are unlikely to be willing to agree to a sign and trade given their payroll situation.

The Spurs could be the "max bidder" if they wanted to.

[Sway]

our FA target should be ron artest
our long term free agent plan should be lebron james ie Kidd 2.0 but it works this time

I think this article just means pop wants JR and he is using the media to warm the fans to the idea

Dude, slowly step away fron the bong... No way Lebron leaves Cleveland for a small market team. It is in his financial interests, and his sponsors, for him to sign with a big market (big media) team i.e. New York, LA, etc. If people think otherwise they are fooling themselves.

That is the problem with the 2010 plan, you gamble the next two years on the hope the FO can attract a big name FA, which unfortnately small market teams dont have a good track record of doing.

[SequSpur]

Why would JR Smith want to come here and play Pop's musical chair bs at the shooting guard position? or play behind a 39 year old Bowen. JR Smith ain't coming here. Move onto something else.

[wildbill2u]

Keep in mind that the kid is only 22 years old. He is still very impressionable and he hasn't really had the type of team mates or coaches to help in sink in. I said in a different thread that JR is just what the doctor ordered - but perhaps looking at it from his perspective, the Spurs are just what the doctor ordered.:flag:

Weren't most of your values and your personality traits in place by age 22?

You think joining the Spurs would prove to be an epiphany for this kid?

I think our management will consider his demonstrated lack of profesionalism--on and off court--before they'd make an offer

Oh well, desperate times call for desperate measures. We're in a serious box for rebulding for the future, not just for next year. So If Pop and FO want to try him, it's OK with me. I don't guess we have much to lose if he doesn't work out.

[VaSpursFan]

a 22 year old athletic swing that we can insert into the starting lineup who can hit the 3 and create his own shot. sign.him.up.now.

at this point, his lack of d doesn't really bother me. finley started and we got no d nor offense from him. our problem last season was putting the ball in the basket. there were stretches all season where the d would hold but then we couldn't score. we need a scorer and this kid is fearless.

he's just what we need...imagine going small with tp, manu, jr, and TD...you can't double off anyone.

[Spurs Brazil]

Smith is a damn talented player. I don't think his attitude is a big problem.

IMO, Smith won't look for a long term contract because he could be worth $10M per year soon.
Spurs should offer him a 2 or 3 years full MLE contract. 2 years or 3 years with a team option on the third year would ideal towards the 2010 plan.

I agree with bruno

I think the only chance to bring Smith is offer the full MLE. I hope he agrees to a 2 or 3 year deal because I don't think the Spurs will offer him the whole 5 years.

JR is my 1st option, Azubuike is the 2nd and R.Davis is the 3rd.

We need a guy to score that's why I don't want Pietrus, Barnes or Delfino

[meestahmeestah]

Long time reader, first time poster...so go relatively easy on me. I live in Denver and I've seen quite a few Nuggets games since I moved here, and J.R. Smith is a very exciting player to watch when he's into the game. The problem is simple...when he's not into the game, he's a waste of a roster spot. Maybe it's a product of coming off the bench on a team with 2 of the biggest ball hogs in history, but if he doesn't hit his first couple of shots, he jakes it the rest of the game...he stands around on defense pouting and takes even more ridiculous shots trying to jumpstart his game. Best case scenario is that he hits his first few shots and goes on a tear...which means he'll stand around on defense itching to get back to the other end. And that's not even mentioning the off-the-court problems. Granted, the off-the-court issues don't bother me as much as it does some...if you show up on time and you work hard and you're a team player, what you do on your own time is your business, not mine. Yes, he's got incredible athletic skill but at this point, he's just too into his own game. I've just seen too many games at the mausoleum known as the Pepsi Center, a building that will be as quiet as church if it's a tight game but will blow up if Melo or J.R. Smith throws down a nasty dunk even though they're down by 15. The Nuggets have really good talent at all 5 spots on the floor, and a pretty decent bench, but they don't have any concept of team at all.

Maybe taking Smith from that sort of "team" and putting him on a "team-first" squad such as the Spurs would help his maturity...and for all the Spurs' deficiencies, we know that "maturity and experience" is definitely not lacking. I'm just not willing to take a huge gamble with the MLE on a streaky, selfish guy who'll throw up 25 points one night and 4 points and 6 turnovers the next. We need help in a major way at the 2/3 and unless you mitigate a possible Smith signing with another 2/3 via the vet's exception or the draft, you're blowing this year's MLE on a guy you cannot count on from quarter to quarter, much less game to game.

Frankly, I think it's all moot because Denver will likely match any offer for him and the Spurs aren't dumb enough to make an offer on a RFA and sit back and wait while that money's tied up and the Nuggets wait until the last second to match. All the signs point to Smith re-signing with the Nuggets, although with AI choosing not to opt-out, I think the Nuggets will definitely look to trade to reduce the cap number for next year. Up until now Nuggets ownership had no problem going over the luxury tax threshold but they don't seem willing to spend as freely as they had. I still believe they'll keep Smith and deal in other directions, but I might be totally wrong on that. They're dealing with the AI thing and they're having a meeting with Melo and his agent tomorrow to discuss his future in Denver. If they do wind up working something out (biggest rumor being Melo to Detroit for Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince) there's going to be a need for scoring and Smith can fill that for the Nuggets on the cheap.

[exstatic]

This is why he won't sign with us. He knows if he's on the Spurs he's going to to be a 4th option and not be able to showcase all of his talent so that teasm would be willing to pay him that 3 years down the road.

What better showcase than 2 years of playoffs with the Spurs? Over the last six years with our core players, the average playoff penetration is 3.167 rounds deep. He's only going to get one round or none with most of the teams willing or able to offer him the MLE.

[Sway]

I agree with bruno

I think the only chance to bring Smith is offer the full MLE. I hope he agrees to a 2 or 3 year deal because I don't think the Spurs will offer him the whole 5 years.

JR is my 1st option, Azubuike is the 2nd and R.Davis is the 3rd.

We need a guy to score that's why I don't want Pietrus, Barnes or Delfino

I agree with your post with one change, I would put James Jones or Dorrel Wright as the 3rd option.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm thinking you can't reform a player whose had problems at two previous stops.

I've never believed in the theory that classy veterans can influence gangsta wannabes.

As has been pointed out ad naseum, the guy is 22. Essentially he's the age of a four-year college senior. Writing him off would probably be like writing off Beasley or Mayo.

[ShoogarBear]

Long time reader, first time poster...so go relatively easy on me. . . . post deleted

I think the major issues is that, as you pointed out, Denver is probably the absolute WORST team for a young player with talent to be on, because of the "coaching" and the jack-it-up style of play of Iverson and Anthony.

To find out what JR Smith can really become, he needs to get out of that environment before he gets permanently Nuggetized.

[Marcus Bryant]

Smith's options for more than the MLE are limited to none. I'm not sure the Nuggets even bring him back at the MLE as they will already be in lux tax territory.

A couple of seasons with the Spurs would probably do him so good with respect to landing that big guaranteed contract. If he became a free agent in 2010 then he'd benefit from being a free agent the same summer that so many big name free agents are available. A number of teams will be clearing cap space to make a run at those and he could be in position to receive offers from the teams that miss out on LeBron and Wade and whoever else.

As for minutes in SA, it's not like he's going to take away that many from AI next season if he remains with the Nuggets.

[TDMVPDPOY]

JR comin here, wouldnt he lose all street creditbility? theres a reason why he got those tats all over his body....

[The Truth #6]

If he came here I would ride him and Tony for offense for the bulk of the regular season so we can save Manu and Tim. JR would love to be given the task of being one of our top two scorers. I don't think that's really that unrealistic. Manu needs to be rested, especially if he goes to play this Summer. This last season he took the whole Summer off and still was completely gassed by the second round. JR's offensive talents do go against the team concept but I think we could use that to an advantage, at least for the regular season. In the playoffs, I would look to Tim and Manu to dominate the ball more, and besides, JR doesn't know anything about the playoffs yet anyway.

So, I do think he is exactly what we need - an explosive scorer who can get his points by himself while we rest our old legs for the playoffs.

The only concern, which is legitimate, is if his presence torpedoes the team chemistry. Finley sucked in a lot of ways, but he was professional and showed up to practice early and I think he helped the team stay on the same page.

With JR, who is he going to hang out with on the team? How many times can he go to Dave and Busters with Tim and Tony? I suppose he could hang out at the tattoo parlor on his off-time and add subtle nuances to his neck tattoos, but I could see him becoming disgruntled here in SA. At the same time, he might find that SA has some of the nicest, most down home strippers anywhere in the country.

The whole scenario around JR is dicey but...exciting, somehow. I'm curious if we even offer him a contract. As some said, for Buck to even write about it probably means the team is considering it, especially as the Express News stories often seem written with the approval of the Spurs PR machine.

[Marcus Bryant]

When you have the MLE to offer and not much in the way of attractive tradeable assets then you will have guys like Smith, Pietrus, and Barnes to choose from to upgrade the swingman rotation. You can't be that selective.

I think Smith would be a great gamble. Ideally, you'd get him here on a short-term MLE contract and draft a swingman. If Smith didn't work out, you probably wouldn't find it that hard to move him on a short, average money deal.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

This dude is being seriously overrated in this thread.

What he is:

1. An athletic slasher who drives to the hoop no matter what. Who cares if no other player has touched the ball or if coach called a certain play.

That's why he takes so many FTs.

2. A player who doesn't know how to take a back seat or play well without the ball. You've GOTTA play well w/out the ball in SA.

3. A streaky shooter.

4. Selfish. Are you starting to notice a common thread in this post?

fuck this dude

Give me Matt Barnes.

Good, active, willing defender.

Athletic (he can dunk too, people :rolleyes )

Consistent shooter.

"Hard-nosed" (whatever that means) -- Tough. he don't take no chit mang

Team Player

about 2-3 mil/year cheaper.

[Marcus Bryant]

Can Barnes be lured away from the Left Coast?

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Can Barnes be lured away from the Left Coast?

There's the rub. I think he'd thrive in the "Family Atmosphere" that Pop's created here. If he could see how this team works (if he doesn't know already) I would guess S.A. would be somewhere he could see himself playing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Only 22 years old? Wow!



Believe it or not, this is the element of his game that worries me most.

I could see him giving us that instant offense that we so desparately need. I just wonder if he he's ready to grow up, become disciplined and actually become part of a winning culture. It'll be interesting to see how or if this goes down.

This is such a red herring. Finley didn't play any D for the last three months of this season, and he still got run. Besides that, I think J.R. would play D here if he came.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So either the Spurs make a gamble or else morons will scold the front office from here on.

And blame it on R.C. to boot...

[SenorSpur]

This is such a red herring. Finley didn't play any D for the last three months of this season, and he still got run. Besides that, I think J.R. would play D here if he came.

You know Pop has a much shorter leash on younger players than vets. Though he did get Finley to upgrade his D while he was here, from non-existent to below average. :lol

I agree with you in that I'm sure J.R. is capable, he just hasn't been held accountable. No worries with that here in Spurland.

[saxman]

This dude is being seriously overrated in this thread.

What he is:

1. An athletic slasher who drives to the hoop no matter what. Who cares if no other player has touched the ball or if coach called a certain play.

That's why he takes so many FTs.

2. A player who doesn't know how to take a back seat or play well without the ball. You've GOTTA play well w/out the ball in SA.

3. A streaky shooter.

4. Selfish. Are you starting to notice a common thread in this post?

fuck this dude

Give me Matt Barnes.

Good, active, willing defender.

Athletic (he can dunk too, people :rolleyes )

Consistent shooter.

"Hard-nosed" (whatever that means) -- Tough. he don't take no chit mang

Team Player

about 2-3 mil/year cheaper.


In my opinion, Barnes is effective because of the system they play in Golden State...up and down...shoot as soon as you are open...a style not like the spurs.

[exstatic]

This dude is being seriously overrated in this thread.

What he is:

1. An athletic slasher who drives to the hoop no matter what. Who cares if no other player has touched the ball or if coach called a certain play.

That's why he takes so many FTs.
How terrible. A swingman who takes it to the rack and gets to the line.


2. A player who doesn't know how to take a back seat or play well without the ball. You've GOTTA play well w/out the ball in SA.
He's the 4th option in Denver, and would be that here. His career numbers are 9 FGA per game.


3. A streaky shooter.

Lot of young players are. His last two years, his streaks have been 44 FG% 39 3G% and 46 FG% and 40 3G%.


4. Selfish. Are you starting to notice a common thread in this post?
9 FGA per game is selfish?

If you don't like the guy, fine, but attacking his game just makes you look stupid.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

What better showcase than 2 years of playoffs with the Spurs? Over the last six years with our core players, the average playoff penetration is 3.167 rounds deep. He's only going to get one round or none with most of the teams willing or able to offer him the MLE.

I hope he's thinking this way, but I get the feeling he's a me first kinda guy who wouldn't want to be a 4th option even if it means being on a winning team.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Either way, he's THE guy we should try to get this summer. A lineup of TP, Manu ( a healthy one), TD, J.R. and Brent (assuming he starts next year where he left at the end of this year) would kick ass on offense.

[MaNu4Tres]

People who post on here saying, " ZOMG NO WAY HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE", " ZOMG HE CUSSES NO WAY I WANT HIM HERE". News flash people J.R Smith is the only realistic option at the wing position that can actually improve this team. Listen you hard headed people about Artest, ARTEST ISN'T COMING HERE. ARTEST IS ONLY OPTING OUT IF HE CAN GET MORE THAN WHAT HE GETS PAID NOW OR JUST AS MUCH. SPURS DON"T HAVE THAT MONEY OR THE ASSETS FOR A SIGN AND TRADE. JR Smith is the only wing out there in free agency for the MLE and below that is an actually threat from the triple threat position. What I mean by that is he can put the ball on the floor and create, and also shoot lights out from three. He's athletisism is the best out there. With the right direction and leadership ( which we have) I believe this man has the upmost potential. For those of you who say no to J.R Smith have to be on something. He is worth the risk.

[MaNu4Tres]

Long time reader, first time poster...so go relatively easy on me. I live in Denver and I've seen quite a few Nuggets games since I moved here, and J.R. Smith is a very exciting player to watch when he's into the game. The problem is simple...when he's not into the game, he's a waste of a roster spot. Maybe it's a product of coming off the bench on a team with 2 of the biggest ball hogs in history, but if he doesn't hit his first couple of shots, he jakes it the rest of the game...he stands around on defense pouting and takes even more ridiculous shots trying to jumpstart his game. Best case scenario is that he hits his first few shots and goes on a tear...which means he'll stand around on defense itching to get back to the other end. And that's not even mentioning the off-the-court problems. Granted, the off-the-court issues don't bother me as much as it does some...if you show up on time and you work hard and you're a team player, what you do on your own time is your business, not mine. Yes, he's got incredible athletic skill but at this point, he's just too into his own game. I've just seen too many games at the mausoleum known as the Pepsi Center, a building that will be as quiet as church if it's a tight game but will blow up if Melo or J.R. Smith throws down a nasty dunk even though they're down by 15. The Nuggets have really good talent at all 5 spots on the floor, and a pretty decent bench, but they don't have any concept of team at all.

Maybe taking Smith from that sort of "team" and putting him on a "team-first" squad such as the Spurs would help his maturity...and for all the Spurs' deficiencies, we know that "maturity and experience" is definitely not lacking. I'm just not willing to take a huge gamble with the MLE on a streaky, selfish guy who'll throw up 25 points one night and 4 points and 6 turnovers the next. We need help in a major way at the 2/3 and unless you mitigate a possible Smith signing with another 2/3 via the vet's exception or the draft, you're blowing this year's MLE on a guy you cannot count on from quarter to quarter, much less game to game.

Frankly, I think it's all moot because Denver will likely match any offer for him and the Spurs aren't dumb enough to make an offer on a RFA and sit back and wait while that money's tied up and the Nuggets wait until the last second to match. All the signs point to Smith re-signing with the Nuggets, although with AI choosing not to opt-out, I think the Nuggets will definitely look to trade to reduce the cap number for next year. Up until now Nuggets ownership had no problem going over the luxury tax threshold but they don't seem willing to spend as freely as they had. I still believe they'll keep Smith and deal in other directions, but I might be totally wrong on that. They're dealing with the AI thing and they're having a meeting with Melo and his agent tomorrow to discuss his future in Denver. If they do wind up working something out (biggest rumor being Melo to Detroit for Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince) there's going to be a need for scoring and Smith can fill that for the Nuggets on the cheap.


Thats all the signs of a young player playing for an undisciplined team as the Denver Nuggets are. They have no leadership, no discipline and it shows year in and year out. Their best two scoreres and players have no idea on where the line is between a good and a bad shot or how to even play a lick of defense and it trickles down to the role players. With the right direction J.R Smith can be a very vital piece to a championship contending team.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Frankly, I think it's all moot because Denver will likely match any offer for him and the Spurs aren't dumb enough to make an offer on a RFA and sit back and wait while that money's tied up and the Nuggets wait until the last second to match.

First off, welcome aboard!:toast

Secondly, didn't the Spurs do exactly this just two seasons ago - twice, with one of them coincidentally being the exact same team being discussed?

[meestahmeestah]

First off, welcome aboard!:toast

Secondly, didn't the Spurs do exactly this just two seasons ago - twice, with one of them coincidentally being the exact same team being discussed?


Thanks for the welcome!

I remember the rumors that the Spurs were going to offer Elton Brand before his last contract, but were afraid to do so because of the cap tie-up. I don't remember a similar situation where the Spurs actually offered...well, I do, but very vaguely. And I don't remember what website I found that lists all the NBA transactions, sortable by team/year/etc. Hmmm...I'm going to have to do some research because now it's going to bother me.

I suppose in my original post I could have said "I've seen J.R. Smith play for the last 2 and a half seasons and the kid ain't worth it" but then again nobody's ever accused me of doing things the easy way.

:flag:

[TJastal]

Review.

JR Smith is athletic, check. Spurs need a young stud.

JR Smith is young, check. Spurs need youth. So?

JR Smith will help the spurs, right? Check. Oh, wait, can he really? Lets think about this a second.

This guy is a borderline headcase waiting to happen who I believe is probably currently in the best possible situation he can be in, given his style of play. If he ends up going to a structured, disciplined team he's going to fail miserably. He's much better off staying where he is and holding onto his schtick as a high flying acrobatic dunker who can give you 30+ on a rare night.

He is the type of player that IMO will play his best ball in an unstructured "go with the flow" playground type atmosphere where there is no such thing as constraints, directions, demands, and sacrifices. Which pretty much defines the nuggets as a team. And pretty much doesn't define the spurs.

Its pretty telling when even George Karl himself has said and I quote "The thing that was driving me crazy was his decisions,". Bottom line: I think the spurs should steer clear of this guy, and help save what's left of Popovich's receding hairline.

We'd be much better off with Pietrus or Vujavich

[Kindergarten Cop]

Thanks for the welcome!

I remember the rumors that the Spurs were going to offer Elton Brand before his last contract, but were afraid to do so because of the cap tie-up. I don't remember a similar situation where the Spurs actually offered...well, I do, but very vaguely. And I don't remember what website I found that lists all the NBA transactions, sortable by team/year/etc. Hmmm...I'm going to have to do some research because now it's going to bother me.

I suppose in my original post I could have said "I've seen J.R. Smith play for the last 2 and a half seasons and the kid ain't worth it" but then again nobody's ever accused me of doing things the easy way.

:flag:


I was referring to the Spurs signing both Elson (of the Nuggets) and Butler, who were both RFAs, to offer sheets two seasons ago and tying up the MLE. So that shows that the Spurs WOULD do something like that.

[Spurs da champs]

Pop has dealt with Stephen Jackson who is worse then J.R Smith imo,And if you all stick think about that brawl Jackson ran after the fans and asaulted them he wasn't even provoked now J.R was provoked by that flagrant foul and that little bitch nate robinson. So J.R is no where near as bad as Stephen Jackson.

[TJastal]

Another quote I looked up

When asked if Smith might be given a spot at backing up Anthony Carter at PG, head coach George Karl said, "That would be a lot of fun, putting your worst turnover-per-minute man at point guard,"

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

When Jack left SA he squeezed off a clip in an Indianapolis strip club's parking lot and beat up a fan in Section 101, Row 3 in The Palace at Auburn Hills.

[TJastal]

Pop has dealt with Stephen Jackson who is worse then J.R Smith imo,And if you all stick think about that brawl Jackson ran after the fans and asaulted them he wasn't even provoked now J.R was provoked by that flagrant foul and that little bitch nate robinson. So J.R is no where near as bad as Stephen Jackson.

Don't know about that brawl, can't comment. I know Stephen Jackson at least had Duncan behind him, urging spurs mgt to get him on the team, so Duncan must have seen something in him.

It comes down to a question of whether you think Smith would sink or swim on the spurs... and I believe he would sink.

[exstatic]

Another quote I looked up

When asked if Smith might be given a spot at backing up Anthony Carter at PG, head coach George Karl said, "That would be a lot of fun, putting your worst turnover-per-minute man at point guard,"

:lol

...and then Karl proceeded to do it.Nuggets blog (http://www.pickaxeandroll.com/2008/6/6/546962/the-nuggets-number-one-off)


When both Anthony Carter and Chucky Atkins were injured before the 2007-2008 season started the Nuggets needed someone to play point guard for a few minutes a night. Mike Wilks proved to be a poor option and so George Karl turned to J.R. The results were not overly impressive, but Smith definitely took the job seriously and he began to look to set his teammates up. As a result his shot selection improved a great deal and J.R. started to think thoughts other than “must jack up long three pointer” when he had the ball in his hands.



Another positive development was his increased effort on defense. He still did not show the proper understanding of positioning and rotations, but his effort was noticeably better.

[Russ]

My gut says that Pietrus would help the Spurs more than Smith. He fits the swingman need more precisely than JR and I think he can score despite some skepticism about that.

The key question is whether JR is like Stephen Jackson -- a great player in the clutch -- or like so many flashy guys -- disappears in the clutch.

If Pietrus' main flaw is that he is dumb, how smart do we think JR is? :)

[exstatic]

Oh, and a diss from George Karl really doesn't mean much. He's pissed on about every player who's ever played for him. JR might even like Pop because, while he might chew his ass in private, he won't ever throw a player under the bus to the media like Karl will.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

My gut says that Pietrus would help the Spurs more than Smith. He fits the swingman need more precisely than JR and I think he can score despite some skepticism about that.

The key question is whether JR is like Stephen Jackson -- a great player in the clutch -- or like so many flashy guys -- disappears in the clutch.

If Pietrus' main flaw is that he is dumb, how smart do we think JR is? :)

Pietrus is dumb as a brick and you don't seem to get what we need this off-season.

We are shopping for a starting 2guard, one that can score in double figures every night and take some of the scoring load off the Big 3 (particularly Manu) during the regular season. That's not a role Pietrus can fill. That, and he makes Nazr Mohammed look like John Wooden when it comes to basketball IQ.

[Russ]

Pietrus is dumb as a brick and you don't seem to get what we need this off-season.

We are shopping for a starting 2guard, one that can score in double figures every night and take some of the scoring load off the Big 3 (particularly Manu) during the regular season. That's not a role Pietrus can fill. That, and he makes Nazr Mohammed look like John Wooden when it comes to basketball IQ.

I thought the Spurs were looking for a 2-3 who could score and defend.

[BigBeezie]

I say take a gamble on Smith with the MLE if possible. Why not?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Oh, and a diss from George Karl really doesn't mean much. He's pissed on about every player who's ever played for him. JR might even like Pop because, while he might chew his ass in private, he won't ever throw a player under the bus to the media like Karl will.

:tu Karl's a douche.

[TJastal]

My gut says that Pietrus would help the Spurs more than Smith. He fits the swingman need more precisely than JR and I think he can score despite some skepticism about that.

The key question is whether JR is like Stephen Jackson -- a great player in the clutch -- or like so many flashy guys -- disappears in the clutch.

If Pietrus' main flaw is that he is dumb, how smart do we think JR is? :)

I'm with Russ on this one. JR Smith would not even be able to hold SJ's jockstrap. He'd just get frustrated very easily on a Popovich coached team and then he'd be pouting on the bench most of the season. Pietrus on the other hand is looking for an opportunity to show his stuff that he wasn't getting in GS, and can score from the 3 spot (which is what the team needs more than a scoring 2 IMO) and play much better defense than JR.

[Sway]

I'm with Russ on this one. JR Smith would not even be able to hold SJ's jockstrap, and I'll bet the farm on it. He'd get frustrated very easily on a Popovich coached team and then he'd be pouting on the bench most of the season. Pietrus on the other hand is looking for an opportunity to show his stuff that he wasn't getting in GS, and can score from the 3 spot (which is what the team needs more than a scoring 2 IMO) and play much better defense than JR.

Come on man you cant even compare the two. JR blows away Pietrus! Pietrus is dumb as a box of rocks and he cant make a shot if his life depended on it. He is a defense first player and that is not what we need. The Spurs need a player who can help them work through their scoring droughts, not shut down the opposing team's best player.

[TJastal]

Dunno where u guys are getting he's got a box or rocks IQ, I think the guy has Josh Howard potential written all over him. And he can flat out score when given the chance.

[ducks]

josh hate that ball in th e4
spurs need shooters who are not afraid to shot in 4

[Bartleby]

I think the guy has Josh Howard potential written all over him. And he can flat out score when given the chance.

I don't see it. Pietrus would be great for defense, but he simply doesn't bring much offensively. Last season he shot 43% and 36% from the field and three point range, respectively, and his free throw percentage flat out sucked at 67%. Plus, he's 26 yrs old and his numbers were actually down last season from his career average. And that's in Nellie's high octane offense.

[ducks]

aj ruined josh

[Marcus Bryant]

The key question is whether JR is like Stephen Jackson -- a great player in the clutch -- or like so many flashy guys -- disappears in the clutch.


The Spurs would not need Smith for "clutch" situations but rather to put up points and take up minutes during the regular season to help keep Manu fresh for the postseason. Anything beyond that would be gravy.

Or, more concisely, the Spurs already have their clutch swingman.

[ducks]

jr proved in this year playoffs he can be clutch against lakers


having another clutch swingman is good incase one is injured

[ducks]

does not josh howard make 10 million next year
jr smith is proven to be better then howard

[Russ]

JR Smith looks awful good. But two coaches who aren't afraid of that type (Karl and Scott) have apparently given up on him in a relatively short amount of time. It makes you wonder what could be so bad about him that it could counterbalance all that talent -- now that's a scary negative whatever it may be.

[The Truth #6]

then he again he's playing under nellie..

I didn't even think he was that effective this year. He sat on the bench for good long stretches. He was buried behind Azub if I remember.

[ducks]

JR Smith looks awful good. But two coaches who aren't afraid of that type (Karl and Scott) have apparently given up on him in a relatively short amount of time. It makes you wonder what could be so bad about him that it could counterbalance all that talent -- now that's a scary negative whatever it may be.

kidd got tired of kidd to:lol:lol:lol

[The Truth #6]

The Spurs would not need Smith for "clutch" situations but rather to put up points and take up minutes during the regular season to help keep Manu fresh for the postseason. Anything beyond that would be gravy.

Or, more concisely, the Spurs already have their clutch swingman.

I agree. Furthermore, many have said JR couldn't handle being the 4th option on the Spurs. I'm probably the only one who thinks he could be the number 2 scoring option during the regular season as Manu rests and Tim focuses on rebounds and defense.

That doesn't seem that far out of possibility in my opinion, and in fact should be the way we plan to utilize him. We let him score one on one while he learns the offense (and we see if he cares to learn defense), then when playoffs come around hopefully Manu is rested and JR has proven himself and is a contributing member of the team. If he isn't, then he doesn't get a lot of minutes in the playoffs and we consider trading him.

If Pop gives him 30 minutes it doesn't seem crazy for him to average 18 ppg. He has huge offensive talent. If we were to go after him, why wouldn't we play to his strengths instead of pulling our hair out because of his deficiencies that our veteran guards also suck at?

Also, Pop loves for our wing players to shoot a lot. He was that way with Finley, Beno, Barry. If players can score he wants them to be confident and do so. With JR we would have a player that wouldn't need their fragile ego stroked. He wants to score. I don't see the problem. If he can put up big offensive numbers, we've solved a huge problem on the team.

[ducks]

jr smith has averaged 9 shots a game
what would happen if he got 13 how many more points would he score?

[exstatic]

JR Smith looks awful good. But two coaches who aren't afraid of that type (Karl and Scott) have apparently given up on him in a relatively short amount of time. It makes you wonder what could be so bad about him that it could counterbalance all that talent -- now that's a scary negative whatever it may be.

What? Scott ran Jack out of NJ. He most certainly doesn't like "that type". Karl doesn't like anyone who plays for him. The only worse fit would have been JR playing for Larry Brown.

[Russ]

What? Scott ran Jack out of NJ. He most certainly doesn't like "that type". Karl doesn't like anyone who plays for him. The only worse fit would have been JR playing for Larry Brown.

Scott give Jack a shot when he was out of the league.

[GSH]

Wrong JR. The right one is in the draft. If you're willing to give a player a second chance, you're still better off with one who claims he has changed enough to deserve one.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97937

[timaios]

jr smith has averaged 9 shots a game
what would happen if he got 13 how many more points would he score?

in 19.2 mpg !!!

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes(22.77)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(10.51)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(5.3)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes(30.6)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.403)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made(157.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(390.0)

[Tully365]

in 19.2 mpg !!!

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes(22.77)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(10.51)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(5.3)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes(30.6)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.403)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made(157.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(390.0)

Amazing to think he was #9 in the nba in FG attempts per 48 min playing alongside Melo and Iverson! Maybe on that team you consider shooting every time you touch the ball for fear that you won't get to touch it again for quite a while...

Here are some comparisons with regard to his scoring ability:

JR: averaged 12.3 ppg, playing 19.2 mpg
Azubuike: 8.5 ppg/ 21.4 mpg
Pietrus: 7.2 ppg/ 19.9 mpg
Roger Mason: 9.1 ppg/ 21.4 mpg
Brent Barry: 7.1 ppg/ 17.9 mpg

[ManuTastic]

Not to be too much of a downer, but in past seasons we've been fantasizing about landing a Kidd, a Webber, maybe J O'Neal or someone like that. Now the best scenario out there for SA is landing this kid? Sigh...
2nd-best scenario for SA: Manu stays home this summer and rests.

[TJastal]

Good arguments on Smith's side!

I think I was focusing too much on the negatives of JR Smith. After some careful consideration of some of the arguments made in this thread and the positives a guy like Smith could bring I've changed my thinking somewhat.

Those numbers listed above are impressive offensive stats for JR I must admit and surprised me, seeing those. He is defenitely not shy about jacking up
the 3-ball. If he can hit em at a 40% clip in the Nuggets' helter skelter offense that's pretty damn decent, although I still think he thrives in that type of offense. Be interesting to see how he performs in a more halfcourt oriented offense.

Of course he would run the break with Parker just like he did with Iverson and get a fair # of easy buckets. And he gives TP a solid trailer for those times TP running full throttle gets himself into trouble and needs a bail.

As mentioned above he does address the scoring droughts the spurs experienced. And he helps give Manu some rest from having to carry so much burden of scoring. I'm sure Manu wouldn't mind that at all. :hat

A defenite concern of mine...IF our major signing is JR Smith to solidify shooting guard, that leaves Bowen and Udoka splitting the time at small forward this year I hope its enough. Problem being Boris Diaw and soon to be "small" forward Lamar Odom. Those matchups will be trouble, given both their size advantage.

[Supergirl]

Everything I read about Smith has red flags all over it. If he pissed no rules Karl off that much, think how fast he'd wind up in Pop's doghouse.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The "wildcard" type of players seem to do pretty well in the Spurs system. Smith getting mentored by the veterans on this team could be good for him.

My guess is that Pop & Co. aren't going to want to risk too much $$$ on him so if he agrees to come here it will probably be for limited bank. Him simply agreeing to play for a guy like Pop for not a ton of cash would say a lot to me about his character, despite what Karl and others say about him.

[Marcus Bryant]

It may help in the recruitment process that the Spurs tried to deal for him before.

[Kindergarten Cop]

It may help in the recruitment process that the Spurs tried to deal for him before.

I keep thinking that those people that are saying that Spurs will not want to deal with "a player like J.R." or that Pop will tire quickly of him need to remind themselves of this very thing. The Spurs have tried to get him (I believe twice already) in the past - and if anything J.R. Smith's behavior has improved since that time.

[SpursFanInAustin]

Not to be too much of a downer, but in past seasons we've been fantasizing about landing a Kidd, a Webber, maybe J O'Neal or someone like that. Now the best scenario out there for SA is landing this kid? Sigh...
2nd-best scenario for SA: Manu stays home this summer and rests.

Yeah but that was back when the Spurs had like 16 million dollars of caproom to land those guys. The Spurs do not have that luxury this offseason.

[lotr1trekkie]

We can't tell about Smith until he gets out of Denver & away from Thug, Melo and Camby and Martin. Two ball hogs and some Rucker League shot blockers. I would think Karl would gladly work out a sign and trade for an expiring contract. A Matt Bonner or Vaughn and a conditional future draft choice might make it happen. Karl needs stability---Smith needs an orderly environment to develop in.

[Ocotillo]

Karl needs stability. Denver needs tax relief.

[xtremesteven33]

the major question is, is he a good defender?

he wasnt asked to do much defense in Denver but is he capable of playing good solid man to man defense?

[VaSpursFan]

the major question is, is he a good defender?

he wasnt asked to do much defense in Denver but is he capable of playing good solid man to man defense?

can finley defend? think about it, for a large part of the season, finley couldn't score or defend. that's why we went through so many scoring droughts during games. i'll take a few defensive lapses here and there for a player that can score the ball. our defense will always be fine...we need help on offense in a major way.

[xtremesteven33]

can finley defend? think about it, for a large part of the season, finley couldn't score or defend. that's why we went through so many scoring droughts during games. i'll take a few defensive lapses here and there for a player that can score the ball. our defense will always be fine...we need help on offense in a major way.



i agree, but playing defense would be a big plus in the eyes of Pop. if he needs to take 12+ shots a game to score 15 points them im sure the Spurs wont go for it.if he can play solid defense im sure the spurs would be more than willing to invest in a decent defender who can score.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I can't imagine that a guy as gifted as him in terms of athletic ability wouldn't be able to play the athletic aspect of defense. It's whether he can play the mental part of it. Finley wasn't capable of either the mental or athletic, so J.R. should/would be an upgrade.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Wrong JR. The right one is in the draft. If you're willing to give a player a second chance, you're still better off with one who claims he has changed enough to deserve one.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97937

I'd vote for that...although as others have alluded to, that's not likely to happen. :(

[Jobbs]

Smith can score 20+ points every 4th or 5th game however he plays no D.

[SenorSpur]

I can't imagine that a guy as gifted as him in terms of athletic ability wouldn't be able to play the athletic aspect of defense. It's whether he can play the mental part of it. Finley wasn't capable of either the mental or athletic, so J.R. should/would be an upgrade.

Couldn't agree more. I know there are a lot of fans who have love for Finley and he's been a good pro, but at this point in his career, he was unable to provide the contributions this team needed on a night-to-night basis. He brought so little else to the table, that if he wasn't hitting his outside shot, he was useless.

That said, I could live with Smith's development in other areas, because the one thing he can do is score...and in a variety of ways.

[VaSpursFan]

Smith can score 20+ points every 4th or 5th game however he plays no D.

IMO, it is much easier to teach defense than offense. i'll take average d from a guy that can score the ball.

[Tully365]

What was it exactly that killed the Smith for B. Barry deal? Did one team get cold feet, or was it some numbers/contract snag?

[Tully365]

In a way, JR Smith's situation is similar to that of Josh Smith's a year or two ago-- athletic talent who seems to be a bit of a head case. Josh seems to have turned the corner and now it looks like Atlanta will definitely try to keep him. Josh likes to play defense, though. That could be the difference.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What was it exactly that killed the Smith for B. Barry deal? Did one team get cold feet, or was it some numbers/contract snag?

IIRC, the trade was agreed upon when the deadline just passed.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs and Hornets needed a 3rd team to be involved. The Hawks could've been, but responded too late.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

IF we get J.R., does that mean Vaughn stays? With another scorer in J.R. Jacque uselessness on offense would not be as detrimental

[Marcus Bryant]

I think Vaughn stays regardless. Until you address the backup point spot you will need him. Even if you do, he'd be very nice insurance as the 3rd point.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep Vaughn as he may help cultivate a sense of leadership in J.R. that he lacks.

[angelbelow]

for those questioning jr smiths defense, just remember finleys. jr smith is NOT going to hurt as bad as finley did.

[Mr. Body]

for those questioning jr smiths defense, just remember finleys. jr smith is NOT going to hurt as bad as finley did.

JR Smith is a worse defender. Finley also had the advantage of being a winner, something of a leader, and had plenty of playoff experience by the time he came to the Spurs, not to mention was nothing but a stand-up guy and good citizen.

[Mr. Body]

In a way, JR Smith's situation is similar to that of Josh Smith's a year or two ago-- athletic talent who seems to be a bit of a head case. Josh seems to have turned the corner and now it looks like Atlanta will definitely try to keep him. Josh likes to play defense, though. That could be the difference.

Josh Smith was never a headcase. JR Smith is a serious headcase. Josh Smith is an all-around talent who plays to make his team win. JR Smith, not so much.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

He's just hammering the dude

[The Truth #6]

His chances of coming here are low. Unless his agent thinks a 2 year stint in SA will help improve his value, it's a long shot. If JR thinks he will be given minutes here to showcase his talents, then it's possible. And that's how both sides should probably consider him coming here - a short term lease where we need scoring and he needs to put up points so he can score a fat contract afterwards. In that sense, I think both sides might be in agreement, maybe.

[exstatic]

His chances of coming here are low. Unless his agent thinks a 2 year stint in SA will help improve his value, it's a long shot. If JR thinks he will be given minutes here to showcase his talents, then it's possible. And that's how both sides should probably consider him coming here - a short term lease where we need scoring and he needs to put up points so he can score a fat contract afterwards. In that sense, I think both sides might be in agreement, maybe.

That's the only way it works, anyway. If we sign him to a long term MLE contract, Denver matches it, because it's cheap on the back end when some of their bad contracts roll off. Only a short term deal works. It may not be worth it to match, try to shed salary by dumping one or more bigs, and then have him walk in two years anyway.

[GSH]

for those questioning jr smiths defense, just remember finleys. jr smith is NOT going to hurt as bad as finley did.


Fin wasn't good on defense, but at least he gave a damn. And Finley is smart. Smith is a one trick pony. He reminds me of Vernon Maxwell - if Maxwell had ever decided that playing defense is for wussies.

It's easy to forget that in December, Smith was 12-42 (.285) from the 3-point line; and in January he went 13-44 (.295). (Maxwell was streaky like that, too.) It's also easy to forget that in the 06-07 playoffs, he made 0 three-pointers in 4 games. It probably should not be so easy to forget that he was driving the car the night that Andre Bell was thrown from the vehicle and killed. Or that the last "incident" that got him suspended was as recent as October 2007 - after the accident that killed his friend.

He scores in streaks and droughts, which only makes sense if he could guarantee that his streaks would come when the rest of the team was in a drought. He doesn't seem to care about anything but his own shot. And he so far seems totally unrepentant about his off-court distractions to the team.

This is from a Denver Post article:
After a morning practice during the regular season, I remember Smith standing bare to the waist in the Pepsi Center, wearing a too-cool smirk as he watched Los Angeles players walk solemnly behind coach Phil Jackson as the Lakers took the court.

"Glad that ain't me," Smith declared. "Look at them. No singing. No smiling. Looks like they're all going to prison."

There went Smith, playing the fool again, poking fun of pros acting professional, eliciting laughter by making a joke at the expense of his life's work.

It was funny at the time.

But what will it take for the 21-year-old Nuggets guard to finally grow up?

If the loss of a friend doesn't scare him straight, then sooner or later, Smith will die a fool.

[The Truth #6]

Fin wasn't good on defense, but at least he gave a damn. And Finley is smart. Smith is a one trick pony. He reminds me of Vernon Maxwell - if Maxwell had ever decided that playing defense is for wussies.

It's easy to forget that in December, Smith was 12-42 (.285) from the 3-point line; and in January he went 13-44 (.295). (Maxwell was streaky like that, too.) It's also easy to forget that in the 06-07 playoffs, he made 0 three-pointers in 4 games. It probably should not be so easy to forget that he was driving the car the night that Andre Bell was thrown from the vehicle and killed. Or that his last "incident" that got him suspended was as recent as October 13, 2007.

He scores in streaks and droughts, which only makes sense if he could guarantee that his streaks would come when the rest of the team was in a drought. He doesn't seem to care about anything but his own shot. And he so far seems totally unrepentant about his off-court distractions to the team.

Other than that he seems like a perfect fit, who should really be compared to Michael Finley.


I'm willing to admit that Finley had great character and commanded the respect of the team. In that aspect, JR Smith will never be able to compete.

But as far as performance on the court, the streakiness you describe in JR could be cut and pasted in describing Finley. Finley's only potential contribution on the court this year was with his shooting, and that too was streaky all season long. I don't recall Finley ever doing a great job of getting others involved. If anything it seemed to be the job of the rest of the team to get Finley going. Pop wanted points out of Finley. Why would Pop expect something vastly different from JR? And if Pop did, then he probably shouldn't be recruiting him.

Soon enough, we'll see how the Spurs play their cards.

JR is far from perfect, but neither was Finley. Your issue with these players seems more to be about appearance and not results.

[clubalien]

It may help in the recruitment process that the Spurs tried to deal for him before.

that is a very good point. oddly another player the spurs had wanted for a while was barry and he came here in FA. ofcourse once he was here we kept trying to trade him.

[GSH]

I'm willing to admit that Finley had great character and commanded the respect of the team. In that aspect, JR Smith will never be able to compete.

But as far as performance on the court, the streakiness you describe in JR could be cut and pasted in describing Finley. Finley's only potential contribution on the court this year was with his shooting, and that too was streaky all season long. I don't recall Finley ever doing a great job of getting others involved. If anything it seemed to be the job of the rest of the team to get Finley going. Pop wanted points out of Finley. Why would Pop expect something vastly different from JR? And if Pop did, then he probably shouldn't be recruiting him.

Soon enough, we'll see how the Spurs play their cards.

JR is far from perfect, but neither was Finley. Your issue with these players seems more to be about appearance and not results.

If you're talking about Finley just for 07-08, I can't disagree. It was just a butt-ugly year. But even when Finley is struggling, he's a guy you want on your team. You can overcome a lot on a basketball court by playing as a team.

My problem with Smith is that he hasn't shown any signs that he thinks his behavior is a problem, even after killing his good friend. It didn't seem to get his attention. And it's a mistake to think that his attitude is only a problem off the court. It's not. He has a "me first" attitude that is a part of everything he does. And I really think he may be a career head case like Maxwell.

My opinion - if there's anything worse than having a guy who is a sub-par performer, it's one who is a good performer when he feels like it, and a cancer the rest of the time. I know Maxwell contributed to a couple of championships, but I also remember him faking an injury in the playoffs because he didn't think he was getting enough minutes. I can see Smith pulling something like that.

But yeah, I admit he puts up numbers.

[SenorSpur]

Fin wasn't good on defense, but at least he gave a damn. And Finley is smart. Smith is a one trick pony. He reminds me of Vernon Maxwell - if Maxwell had ever decided that playing defense is for wussies.



...and Finley is not?

[wildbill2u]

Pop is very similar to Byron Scott and Georger Karl in this respect: You have to display the proper attitude including buying into the team concept or you do not get any minutes.

Pop may even be more demanding in this regard than these coaches who've basically given up on this kid because of his attitude.

Add that to off court shenanigans, and I'm dubious that he would find a spot anywhere here except in Pop's doghouse. Once there, you're doomed.

[Tully365]

Josh Smith was never a headcase. JR Smith is a serious headcase. Josh Smith is an all-around talent who plays to make his team win. JR Smith, not so much.

This is from a Peter Vescey column-- I'm not saying his word is Gospel, but I think Josh was a little tougher to handle in the past than he is now...


HAWKS AIN'T JOSHIN'

CUSS & FUSS: Josh Smith was suspended by the Hawks for two games yesterday, one day after an expletive-filled tirade at coach Mike Woodson (left) late in a loss to the 76ers.


April 10, 2007 -- THE NBA must be thrilled about the graceful 24 hours it experienced Sunday/Monday. Aside from Miami Beach police playing ring around (James) Posey in the early a.m., the Hawks suspended Josh Smith two games yesterday after Mike Woodson banished him to the locker room during Atlanta's loss in Philly for calling him names he'd only heard from rappers...

.....Two summers ago, a source swore he was in a club when the under-age Smith was asked to leave after acting up when a bartender refused to serve him. That's when things almost got of hand.
"Josh kept threatening he was going home to get his gat and was coming back with his peeps," the source asserted. "Thank goodness Josh Childress was there. He kept calming down Smith and telling him to chill. Finally, he got him out of there before anything physical or worse happened."
Yup, if I'm the Hawks, Smith's the guy I want to bankroll this summer as my franchise player. The predicament is, if they don't, we all know there will be at least one team (and all it takes is one) who'll be more than willing to take a five-year, $50 millions-$60 million guaranteed gamble the season after next (when he becomes free) on such a talented head case.

[Tully365]

The really amazing thing about this article is the reminder that Josh Smith was too young last year to go into a bar and order a beer! And a year later, he almost helps take down the Celtics. Hard to believe...

[T Park]

Yeah if Smith's jumper gets more consistent, hes gonna be an all star for a long time.

[Tully365]

My gut says that Pietrus would help the Spurs more than Smith. He fits the swingman need more precisely than JR and I think he can score despite some skepticism about that.

The key question is whether JR is like Stephen Jackson -- a great player in the clutch -- or like so many flashy guys -- disappears in the clutch.

If Pietrus' main flaw is that he is dumb, how smart do we think JR is? :)

The more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems JR would join the Spurs on his own. Before, he was part of a proposed trade-- he had no say. Now he's a free agent. And I think the pitch looks like this to him: "Hey Mr Smith, would you like to be scoring option #4 on a disciplined team that focuses primarily on defense and is coached by an in-your-face drill sergeant?"

It'd be different if the Spurs were offering more money than anybody else, but that's not the case.

[Kindergarten Cop]

It'd be different if the Spurs were offering more money than anybody else, but that's not the case.

How do you know this for sure? Which team do you feel will offer more than the MLE?

Besides, he wasn't even the 4th scoring option in Denver. How do you know he'd be the 4th if he came here?

[Tully365]

How do you know this for sure? Which team do you feel will offer more than the MLE?

Besides, he wasn't even the 4th scoring option in Denver. How do you know he'd be the 4th if he came here?

I don't "know" for sure at all... I'm just saying the Spurs can't outbid most teams-- the most they can do is max out at the MLE. And the "milk & cookies" image of the Spurs along with the defense-first approach doesn't strike me as something that would necessarily appeal to the immature JR, who I'm guessing would rather be Da Man on a run-&-gun type of team.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I don't "know" for sure at all... I'm just saying the Spurs can't outbid most teams-- the most they can do is max out at the MLE. And the "milk & cookies" image of the Spurs along with the defense-first approach doesn't strike me as something that would necessarily appeal to to the immature JR, who I'm guessing would rather be Da Man on a run-&-gun type of team.


If his agent was trying to convince him (or if he chooses on his own) that if he want to be "Da Man" on any team and earn the big payday, he has to prove that he has matured and turned himself around - and what better place to to that than in San Antonio? Besides, have you not heard that the Spurs over the past few years have transformed from the "milk & cookies" image of soft players to the "Evil Empire" of dirty players that play too physical?:flag:

[meestahmeestah]

Not to burst anyone's bubble on J.R. Smith but Mark Warkentien of the Nuggets' front office was on the local sports talk morning show this morning (I live in Denver) and said flat out that they would a) give Smith a qualifying offer and b) match any offer. Smith's not leaving Denver.

[Big P]

Not to burst anyone's bubble on J.R. Smith but Mark Warkentien of the Nuggets' front office was on the local sports talk morning show this morning (I live in Denver) and said flat out that they would a) give Smith a qualifying offer and b) match any offer. Smith's not leaving Denver.

Good!

[Ronaldo McDonald]

J.R.'s only hope to mature as both a basketball player and a person is to leave the "team" he's on. He'll continue to dissapoint and underchieve as long as he's there.

[T Park]

I highly doubt AGAIN, the team is willing to pay 11.6 million a year for their 4th scorer....

[meestahmeestah]

Good!


Couldn't agree more. :downspin:

I was trying to find a link or some audio to verify my claims, but they're more upset with the Nuggets trading their 1st rounder to Charlotte. Plus, Warkentien was an ass on the radio...just smug, arrogant and condescending. You can do that IMO if you're Pop and you've earned some rings. If you're associated with the Nuggets though, STFU and win some games and then cop some attitude.

Anyway, here's a link to the morning talk dudes blog at the Fan in Denver.... You can tell how pissed they are. It's kind of funny.

http://fm1043thefan.com/theSportsGuys/blogs.cfm

[meestahmeestah]

TPark, doubt all you want. But considering Warkentien works for the Nuggets and I heard him say it this morning...well I'll take his word instead of yours.