Nuggets Trade #20 Pick to . . .

[FromWayDowntown]

. . . Bobcats

http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/nuggets_trade_20pick_062508.html

Nuggets Trade 2008 1st Round Pick to Charlotte

DENVER, June 25 -- The Denver Nuggets have traded their first round draft selection (the 20th overall) in the 2008 NBA Draft to the Charlotte Bobcats in exchange for a future protected first round draft pick, Nuggets Vice President of Basketball Operations Mark Warkentien announced today.
The Nuggets now currently have no picks in tomorrow’s draft.

[T Park]

Chalmers now potentially falls.

[thekingrobert]

that would have been a good spot for the Spurs

[Bruno]

I see two consequences for Spurs :

First, it gives more reasons to Nuggets to match a JR Smith offer. they have saved some money by dumping the pick and without a draft pick, they need him even more.

Second, bobcats need bigmen and a backup PG. If they draft a big at #9, they will take Chalmers if he is available at #20. If they draft a PG at #9, they will draft a big at #20.

[TheProfessor]

Chalmers now potentially falls.
If Indiana obtains T.J Ford and doesn't go with PG at 11, Sacramento goes with D.J. Augustin, and Chalmers does potentially fall without Denver to catch him. Phoenix could have a tough decision with a potential back-up to Nash (good shooter, defensive-minded) and Rush on the board, but I think they'd go with Rush.

[T Park]

Yeah Indiana has gotten him apparently and the 17th pick.

I agree I think Phoenix goes with the shooting guard.

Although like Bruno said, Charlotte covers a point guard as well.

[Marcus Bryant]

Potentially good news for the Spurs.

[DazedAndConfused]

Nuggz are high on JR, he isn't going anywhere.

[Marcus Bryant]

They're going to have to clear more payroll than that.

[DPG21920]

Is it greedy to want tomorrow and July 1st to be here already?

[DPG21920]

Marcus, I do not know if the Nuggets care about payroll. They have shown they will do what it takes to win (money wise) and I highly doubt they will let J.R. go, even if it means paying extra. Why would they pay big bucks to an injured Kenyon or older Camby but let the youngster go? I hope they do, but I have my reservations.

[Big P]

Is it greedy to want tomorrow and July 1st to be here already?

What happens July 1?

[Spurs Brazil]

I see two consequences for Spurs :

First, it gives more reasons to Nuggets to match a JR Smith offer. they have saved some money by dumping the pick and without a draft pick, they need him even more.

Second, bobcats need bigmen and a backup PG. If they draft a big at #9, they will take Chalmers if he is available at #20. If they draft a PG at #9, they will draft a big at #20.

That's why I think the only way to get J.R is offering the whole MLE.

I don't see the Nuggets matching that. It would cost them almost $12mi in salary in the 1st year

[DPG21920]

July 1st is the first day teams can negotiate with free agents.

[timvp]

Depending on the conditions of that pick, this could end up being a really nice move for the Nuggets.

[DPG21920]

It is a protected pick, so I do not know how much more they could improve from the 20? Maybe outside a top 10, they get it? What happens if it falls in the protected range, do they get another pick or cash or what?

[SenorSpur]

They're going to have to clear more payroll than that.

much more.....

Carmelo, AI, Camby, Nene, K-Mart all have big money contracts.

[Bruno]

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_9692488?source=commented-nuggets


The future first-round pick is protected by Charlotte in this regard: If the pick falls in the lottery next draft, it still belongs to Charlotte. But if Charlotte makes the playoffs, and the pick thus isn't in the lottery, the pick belongs to Denver.

The following year, if it wasn't used by Denver the previous year, the pick still belongs to Charlotte if it's 1-12. Following year protections are 1-10, 1-8 and finally 1-3.

[ChumpDumper]

Good. Jordan sucks at drafting outside the lottery. He'll probably take Ryan Anderson.

[SenorSpur]

Good. Jordan sucks at drafting outside the lottery. He'll probably take Ryan Anderson.

:lol

[timvp]

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_9692488?source=commented-nuggetsDamn, the Bobcats got owned. They just traded a 20th pick for a pick that will be around 15 or 16 at the very highest. If LB bombs out, it could easily be a top ten pick down the road.

Too bad the Spurs didn't get this offer from the Bobcats.

[K-State Spur]

Good. Jordan sucks at drafting outside the lottery. He'll probably take Ryan Anderson.

He's much better in the lottery?

[objective]

fans on a Nuggets board I frequent are pretty much all in agreement that the Nuggets would match any deal up to the MLE for Smith, regardless of luxury tax.

[Ocotillo]

He's much better in the lottery?

Sincerely,

Kwame Brown

[Ocotillo]

fans on a Nuggets board I frequent are pretty much all in agreement that the Nuggets would match any deal up to the MLE for Smith, regardless of luxury tax.


Yeah we seem to be freer with spending Holt's money than he is.

[SenorSpur]

fans on a Nuggets board I frequent are pretty much all in agreement that the Nuggets would match any deal up to the MLE for Smith, regardless of luxury tax.

Based upon comments that I've read from their coach, it seemed to me that Karl simply was disgusted with Smith.

[50 cent]

There is no doubt we will have to offer JR the entire MLE to even have a shot at him.

I don't know if Denver can match that.

[T Park]

Yeah we seem to be freer with spending Holt's money than he is.

except the Spurs aren't even close to luxury tax.

[Ocotillo]

except the Spurs aren't even close to luxury tax.

Yeah, I understand. My point is fans on message boards are willing to spend the company money more than owners are which was my response to Nugget message board fans saying Nugg ownership will pay the luxury tax.

[T Park]

Ah,

that is very true.

Thats why I always find it funny when fans rip the ownership of the team when that said owner is forking out over 80 million to a basketball team's payroll, that its cheap that they don't want want to pay more than 12 million plus another matching 12.

[objective]

Yeah, I understand. My point is fans on message boards are willing to spend the company money more than owners are which was my response to Nugget message board fans saying Nugg ownership will pay the luxury tax.

I would argue that fans who follow a team closely know enough about that team to make reasonable predictions on the course of action taken if there's a consensus among the fans.

Spurs fans consensus is that the Spurs aren't willingly going to go into major luxury tax, though they've skirted into it in the past.

Denver fan consensus at least from the board I frequent (have to be a member to even read) is that JR Smith will be matched up to the MLE based on their understanding of Kroenke.

[objective]

Based upon comments that I've read from their coach, it seemed to me that Karl simply was disgusted with Smith.

George Karl is usually disgusted with all of his players and will throw them under the bus very easily, then talk them up just as easily.

[T Park]

Spurs fans consensus is that the Spurs aren't willingly going to go into major luxury tax, though they've skirted into it in the past.


Skirted yes.

Go full blown, Dallas Mavericks into it?

No.

[exstatic]

Yeah we seem to be freer with spending Holt's money than he is.

...as the Nug fans are with their owner's money. $12M is a shitload to pay for a bench player who's your #4 scorer.

Denver has made some HUGE cap errors in the last 4-5 years. You just can't pay your starting five $10-11 M each, on average, and stay in business in mid level market. I don't see this as a move to keep Smith, I see it as a desperate bid to shed ANY salary they can with those 8 players and $78M already on the books, and needing to sign a minimum of 5 more players to make up the minimum 13 man roster.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I understand. My point is fans on message boards are willing to spend the company money more than owners are which was my response to Nugget message board fans saying Nugg ownership will pay the luxury tax.

Uh, with 8 players and $78M on the payroll, they'll kind of fucking have to, to the tune of an extra $13M with an incomplete roster of 8 of 13 needed spots. The only question is "how much?".

[ChumpDumper]

He's much better in the lottery?Mixed. It's harder to be a total screw up in the lottery.

[T Park]

Yeah he drafted Kwame, but has gotten Felton and others so it is a true mixed.

[Pucho!!!]

fans on a Nuggets board I frequent are pretty much all in agreement that the Nuggets would match any deal up to the MLE for Smith, regardless of luxury tax.

From what I remembered hearing from Karl at the end of the year, they were gonna try and shed some weight off their salary cap to get themselves closer or outta the luxury tax. It mite have to do with ownership gettin tired of payin in the luxury tax and getting nothing in return.

[objective]

...as the Nug fans are with their owner's money. $12M is a shitload to pay for a bench player who's your #4 scorer.

Denver has made some HUGE cap errors in the last 4-5 years. You just can't pay your starting five $10-11 M each, on average, and stay in business in mid level market. I don't see this as a move to keep Smith, I see it as a desperate bid to shed ANY salary they can with those 8 players and $78M already on the books, and needing to sign a minimum of 5 more players to make up the minimum 13 man roster.

re: paying the tax for the #4 scorer . . .

The Nuggets knew they'd be in serious tax hell when they gave Nene $60 million for 6 years, and he was the 5th scorer and wasn't even a starter when Camby and Martin were healthy and they still had years left on their deals.

Kroenke has proven he'll spend the money for the players he wants to keep.

What's mid-market size to him? Kroenke's on the Forbes 400 list of the wealthy and according to figures I've seen his net worth is about 26 times that of Peter Holt.

Just because the Nuggets didn't match an RFA contract for their 3rd string 30 year old center in Elson at the time doesn't mean they won't pay up for a 22 year old who would be starting on most teams. And they still have Iverson coming off the books next summer.

[exstatic]

The Nuggets knew they'd be in serious tax hell when they gave Nene $60 million for 6 years, and he was the 5th scorer and wasn't even a starter when Camby and Martin were healthy and they still had years left on their deals.

Kroenke has proven he'll spend the money for the players he wants to keep.

What's mid-market size to him? Kroenke's on the Forbes 400 list of the wealthy and according to figures I've seen his net worth is about 26 times that of Peter Holt.

When they made those moves, they thought they could put together a deep playoff team. It didn't work, and now they're stuck with a shitload of contracts. Very rich owners pay out the ying yang...for a while. See: Cuban, Mark; Allen, Paul. Eventually, they realize that they are going to burn through a shitload of their own fortunes, and that while they can do it, they probably shouldn't, and they stop free spending, and get more within what their market will support.

Three year full MLE contract, third year player option. Put in some penalty bonuses for NOT making the second round. I guarantee you Denver wouldn't touch it. He'd be unrestricted in two years, and he'd either walk, or Denver would be right back in tax jail.

[objective]

When they made those moves, they thought they could put together a deep playoff team. It didn't work, and now they're stuck with a shitload of contracts. Very rich owners pay out the ying yang...for a while. See: Cuban, Mark; Allen, Paul. Eventually, they realize that they are going to burn through a shitload of their own fortunes, and that while they can do it, they probably shouldn't, and they stop free spending, and get more within what their market will support.

Three year full MLE contract, third year player option. Put in some penalty bonuses for NOT making the second round. I guarantee you Denver wouldn't touch it. He'd be unrestricted in two years, and he'd either walk, or Denver would be right back in tax jail.

In Denver's minds, they are a deep playoff team. That's why Karl hasn't been fired to start over, Melo hasn't been traded, etc. In their minds they have legitimate excuses as to why they weren't deep in the playoffs, among them Nene spent the year recovering from cancer and Kenyon Martin was still in the process of 'rebuilding his career' as Karl puts it. So they think next year they'll be a contender with a healthy Nene and Martin, and with Karl's new gameplans and his talk of how he learned so much and all they need is a good match-up.

re: your contract proposal, I don't see what your guarantee is based on. I don't know of any penalties any team could write into a contract that could circumvent the MLE allowed in the cba. Besides, in two years time they won't be in tax jail, as it is now they'll be free from about $30 million of salary due to Iverson and Camby.

[The Truth #6]

A lot of things about Denver's decision making is moronic. What's unclear is what direction they are leaning. Are they shedding the pick to free up money to sign JR Smith, or are they beginning a trend of fiscal sanity, of which they don't want to go into luxury tax by paying through the nose by matching a contract for JR?

[exstatic]

In Denver's minds, they are a deep playoff team. That's why Karl hasn't been fired to start over, Melo hasn't been traded, etc. In their minds they have legitimate excuses as to why they weren't deep in the playoffs, among them Nene spent the year recovering from cancer and Kenyon Martin was still in the process of 'rebuilding his career' as Karl puts it. So they think next year they'll be a contender with a healthy Nene and Martin, and with Karl's new gameplans and his talk of how he learned so much and all they need is a good match-up.

re: your contract proposal, I don't see what your guarantee is based on. I don't know of any penalties any team could write into a contract that could circumvent the MLE allowed in the cba. Besides, in two years time they won't be in tax jail, as it is now they'll be free from about $30 million of salary due to Iverson and Camby.

The beauty is, if they match, you just wait two years and go after him in 2010 if all the big fish are gone. Camby and Iverson are the only ones on that team with any heart or balls. If you let them go, you're stuck with CryMelo, ChokeMart, and Nene? Yuck.

[objective]

They're an organization in their own little world, and Nene's monster contract when there were no other bidders, he wasn't a starter and hadn't lived up to potential, and there were two other highly paid big men there already is just one example of what goes on there. And that plays into how I can easily see them matching any offer on JR Smith.

Denver is just very disfunctional. Remember that news reports were of Karl declaring it was either him or Melo and that they couldn't co-exist? Well now Melo is there for good and Karl still hasn't resigned or been fired. Karl will tear his players down but then sing their praises. He would complain about how eccentric they were but gush about how much he learned from them. He'd make excuses that the reason the Nuggets hadn't won a series was that they had bad match-ups, once they got a good one and won a series they'd snowball into success. He blamed Nene's cancer. He'd declare that a practice after being down 2-0 would be 'optional' for the players. Karl also said in the post-LA series presser that it wasn't up to him to 'philosiphize' (his quote) on why the team only played hard when they were finished.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Marcus, I do not know if the Nuggets care about payroll. They have shown they will do what it takes to win (money wise) and I highly doubt they will let J.R. go, even if it means paying extra. Why would they pay big bucks to an injured Kenyon or older Camby but let the youngster go? I hope they do, but I have my reservations.

Do you understand about the luxury cap? If we tendered a MLE deal to JR, it would effectively cost them $10 million a year to keep him. And they're already 10 million over the lux tax without him.

[DPG21920]

Ya motha f'r I understand the luxury cap, obviously the Nuggets are more than willing to pay the tax to keep players they think will help them win, JR fits that bill, so I can see them matching and paying the tax to keep the talented 22 year old.

[ChumpDumper]

Depends on whether the Nuggets think their window is still open. Shit hasn't worked out so far. I think they'll keep JR if they can get rid of some big ass contract.

[Marcus Bryant]

Depends on whether the Nuggets think their window is still open. Shit hasn't worked out so far. I think they'll keep JR if they can get rid of some big ass contract.

But who will take that?

[DPG21920]

Which is why they have been shopping camby around I think...

[T Park]

If they can find a suckerrrrrrrr taker for Nene or someone along those lines, they will keep him probobly.

[DPG21920]

Plenty of people could use Camby for sure, I wonder if the Warriors would be interested? They have some contracts they could send and Camby is athletic enough to guard multiple positions, run the floor, make them better defensively and he is a good passer (especially lobs)... could work out...

[ChumpDumper]

But who will take that?Camby is worth the money. It'll be hard to get rid of the other bigs. If they are desperate, they could deal AI, but there is plenty of time before that would happen.

[DPG21920]

No way AI gets dealt, Camby's contract is at least reasonable for what you are getting.

[ChumpDumper]

No way AI gets dealt, Camby's contract is at least reasonable for what you are getting.Eh, if you are giving up, you might as well get some part of his $22 million off your books. I agree he still sells jerseys and tickets - but for how long?

[DPG21920]

Not saying that they would not trade him, I just do not know a team that would take that monster of a contract? I think they would love to trade him, but I just do not know for whom and to where. I hope they stand pat and let the Spurs swoop in a get J.R.. If the Spurs do that and end up drafting Batum or Hibbert or CDR that would be a nice, cheap off season that allows us to contend along with keeping 2010 in mind. Perfect.

[T Park]

The Nuggets are on the verge of having to blow it up again.

[T Park]

Not saying that they would not trade him, I just do not know a team that would take that monster of a contract? I think they would love to trade him, but I just do not know for whom and to where. I hope they stand pat and let the Spurs swoop in a get J.R.. If the Spurs do that and end up drafting Batum or Hibbert or CDR that would be a nice, cheap off season that allows us to contend along with keeping 2010 in mind. Perfect.

If the Spurs are targeting JR Smith, they are gonna go after a Batum or Chalmers more than likely.

[DPG21920]

Really, I feel if the Spurs are going after JR, they would go big like Hibbert in the draft, but either way I am ok. I feel JR is more important than anyone we draft, he is like a college senior anyways.

[ChumpDumper]

Not saying that they would not trade him, I just do not know a team that would take that monster of a contract? I think they would love to trade him, but I just do not know for whom and to where.Some crazy shit like Dallas or New York would not surprise me at all.

[DPG21920]

Dallas would surprise me, especially since they would have egg on their face from the Kidd trade and that would be a lot to throw on a new coach.

[DPG21920]

I really hope we can deal with the Bulls now that they have an ass load of young talent (Tyrus, Thabo...), a new coach familiar with the Spurs, a need for veterans (bigs Oberto, Bonner, KT) and we can make something happen.

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps nobody will want to help the Nuggets escape from Luxury Taxation Hell...

[Blackjack]

I really hope we can deal with the Bulls now that they have an ass load of young talent (Tyrus, Thabo...), a new coach familiar with the Spurs, a need for veterans (bigs Oberto, Bonner, KT) and we can make something happen.

It's a long shot they'd be interested in anything we have to offer, but I'm all for getting Thabo on the Spurs.

Maybe someone they like falls to the 26 and we could package it with TE? They've got some financial decisions to make, so maybe a prospect and a chance to save some cash gets them to bite.

Probably not likely, but Thabo is exactly the type of player the Spurs need.

[DPG21920]

I think the Bulls would do it for Kurt Thomas, but I do not think it would be worth it to the Spurs, we need bigs.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Nuggets will lock up JR. This is the first step in ensuring they have a little money freed up, plus they will get a better pick than the 20th....... They will now have 2 1st rd picks in an upcoming draft and could package them to move up even higher.

The Nuggets aren't done dealing. Someone will be moved and i would be suprised to see a couple of moves.

JR will be in Denver for a while. AI is only around for a short time and then JR has the starting spot to himself. I wouldn't be suprised to see AI slide to PG so JR can start at SG. AI sucks at PG but he can't be much worse than bringing back Anthony Carter :lol

Im still hoping Camby for Hinrich happens.

It sucks that there will be no Chalmers but the long term payoff will likely be better,

[DPG21920]

Locking up J.R is going to take the full MLE, which in Denver's case means around 10 million because of luxury tax. That is a lot of dough, and I guess if they like him I can see it, they are not afraid to spend.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

oh, and adding a 1st rd pick from Charlotte in a trade is alot more enticing than a first rd pick from the Nuggets........ I doubt the Nuggets even keep the pick for too long.

[T Park]

Nuggets will lock up JR. This is the first step in ensuring they have a little money freed up, plus they will get a better pick than the 20th....... They will now have 2 1st rd picks in an upcoming draft and could package them to move up even higher.

The Nuggets aren't done dealing. Someone will be moved and i would be suprised to see a couple of moves.

JR will be in Denver for a while. AI is only around for a short time and then JR has the starting spot to himself. I wouldn't be suprised to see AI slide to PG so JR can start at SG. AI sucks at PG but he can't be much worse than bringing back Anthony Carter :lol

Im still hoping Camby for Hinrich happens.

It sucks that there will be no Chalmers but the long term payoff will likely be better,


So the Nuggets are gonna pay JR Smith over 10 mill a year.

[DPG21920]

The Nuggets do not have any picks this year at all?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Locking up J.R is going to take the full MLE, which in Denver's case means around 10 million because of luxury tax. That is a lot of dough, and I guess if they like him I can see it, they are not afraid to spend.

yeh but thats only for 1 year. AI expires next year which essentially wipes $40mil from the payroll.....

Nuggets can roll with JR/Melo/Nene and bring in help.

[DPG21920]

I would not be surprised if the Nugs paid him 10 mil, they are loco

[T Park]

Nope.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

The Nuggets do not have any picks this year at all?

nope.

[T Park]

yeh but thats only for 1 year. AI expires next year which essentially wipes $40mil from the payroll.....

Nuggets can roll with JR/Melo/Nene and bring in help.


Yeah, try selling that to the owner.


I'd say you've had a bit too much to drink.

[DPG21920]

Do the Nuggets have early bird rights on JR? If so, they can hope he gets low-balled in free agency and offer him that with out going into more luxury tax for him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Do the Nuggets have early bird rights on JR? If so, they can hope he gets low-balled in free agency and offer him that with out going into more luxury tax for him.

QUESTION is whose going to low balled him a offer, i dont see it happening, some team will offer him the MLE to see if the nuggets bite it and put themselves over the LUX cap and force to pay up, then a team like the spurs whose under it enjoys the 2m re-imbursement from teams paying the lux tax hahahaha